We should have made Brown an offer.

[juice]

Who has the most unproven line in the AFC-East? Da Bills...

Would that have been the answer if Ruebon wasn't run out of town?

RB told the staff that he was willing to talk #'s.. and they knew he was the most experienced lineman we had along with the most decorated in Bills history.. why didn't TD try to keep him after a season when the line showed no ability to Open running lanes or pass block with any consistancy.

The Brown move may prove to be TD's worst move of his time at GM.. along with the GW move.

We may need two RB's that can carry the team because this Swiss Cheese Line may be the End of Bledsoe's career.

It just seems like there wasn't even an effort to keep our lines centerpiece and a team leader in the position that he has excelled in for almost a decade.

Now we have more questions than answers on our O-Line and JJ may be the next to leave as our Best Lineman next year.

MW may be lost for the season.

[StanMarino13]

I dont mean to knock my own team, but with 4 new starters on the fins oline I'd think we'd win that prestigious award for most unproven line. Not exactly an award that me and my team can be proud of, but IMO we win it hands down.

[Tatonka]

juice.. brown didnt get any offers from anyone because he is old and done.. he isnt even a starter on the bears ****ty oline.. so get over brown.. i guess we should bring jim kelly back too huh?

[juice]

Originally posted by Tatonka
juice.. brown didnt get any offers from anyone because he is old and done.. he isnt even a starter on the bears ****ty oline.. so get over brown.. i guess we should bring jim kelly back too huh?

Tonk.. wouldn't our line be better off than it is now with Brown still here?

Brown will be a starter on that line by the season's start.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by juice
Tonk.. wouldn't our line be better off than it is now with Brown still here?

no.. brown is not good enough to beat out the crappy bears starters.. so i am pretty sure he couldnt beat out our crappy starter, whoever that ends up being, either..

he was done and has been for 2 years.. he was a revolving door. at least the kids we have now can get better.. ruben will not .. he will just get worse.. which is hard to imagine after last year.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Brown is done.

[casdhf]

Originally posted by juice

MW may be lost for the season.

Making stuff up again?

[juice]

Originally posted by Tatonka
no.. brown is not good enough to beat out the crappy bears starters.. so i am pretty sure he couldnt beat out our crappy starter, whoever that ends up being, either..



Whoever is about right.. Our line was the worst in the league last year, we run our only Veteran out of town and YOU think we are better off?

[juice]

Originally posted by casdhf
Making stuff up again?

What makes you think he will be effective this year with a weight problem? He already couldn't deal with Quick DE's.

[saviorbledsoe]

We were by far NOT the worst line in the league. Part of the reason we were bad on the line however was Brown. Most holding calls were on him! Our line was excellant in run blocking and a lot of the sacks were due to KG lousy playcalling and Drew holding on too long.

[juice]

Originally posted by saviorbledsoe
We were by far NOT the worst line in the league. Part of the reason we were bad on the line however was Brown. Most holding calls were on him! Our line was excellant in run blocking and a lot of the sacks were due to KG lousy playcalling and Drew holding on too long.

Our Gaurd/Tackle play was better on JJ/RB side than it was on the opposite side.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by juice
Our Gaurd/Tackle play was better on JJ/RB side than it was on the opposite side.

we had Pucillo at RG 'NUFF SAID

[juice]

I just wanted to make sure RB wasn't our worst lineman last season and could have added to line depth.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by juice
I just wanted to make sure RB wasn't our worst lineman last season and could have added to line depth.
Personally, I think I would have liked to see him stick around. The penalty thing is a touch overblown. Yeah, he took more than his fair share but people are acting like he was getting them on every drive at least. Pucillo is far worse than Ruben..Ruben never helped DTs sack any of our QBs. But he's gone and not coming back unless he signs a one-day contract and wants to retire as a Bill so let's move on.

[juice]

Originally posted by The_Philster
Personally, I think I would have liked to see him stick around. The penalty thing is a touch overblown. Yeah, he took more than his fair share but people are acting like he was getting them on every drive at least. Pucillo is far worse than Ruben..Ruben never helped DTs sack any of our QBs. But he's gone and not coming back unless he signs a one-day contract and wants to retire as a Bill so let's move on.

RB could have helped MW adjust to the expectations and pressures of a 1st round lineman pick.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by juice
RB could have helped MW adjust to the expectations and pressures of a 1st round lineman pick.

He's had a few years to do that already? What? He should babysit him his entire career?

[Michael82]

Originally posted by The_Philster
we had Pucillo at RG 'NUFF SAID

and NOW we have him on Drew's blindside at LG. :eek: :scared:

[juice]

Who can mentor MW now JJ? The problem with our line is that it has no Identity, no assigned position and no experience playing together as a unit.. Who are the run blockers and who are the pass blockers?

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally posted by Tatonka
i guess we should bring jim kelly back too huh?

You don't want to hear my answer to that one. :D

[helmetguy]

MW is a big boy now. How much more "mentoring" should he need? As far as RB goes, what does it tell you when we get one of the Bears' starting Guards (Villarial) and RB STILL can't crack the Bears' starting lineup? Whatever MW's problems are, $3+ million is 'way too much to pay to have RB here as his babysitter.

[Halbert]

I think his beligerance at the end of the season played into that decision as well.

[helmetguy]

Originally posted by Halbert
I think his beligerance at the end of the season played into that decision as well.

All the more reason why the notion of RB "mentoring" another veteran is so ludicrous.

[juice]

Originally posted by helmetguy
All the more reason why the notion of RB "mentoring" another veteran is so ludicrous.

RB was a top rate professional his entire career as a Bill and one of the few on the team that had the Balls to speak out about a bad situation going south last year in the middle of the GW episode.

As the only veteran on that unit RB spoke out and took the fall for a unit that was badly coached... The O-Line coach almost ruined the career of a up and coming lineman in Sullivan that played well the year before. Just when the line was starting to jell at the end of '02 he benched the 3rd best lineman on this unit.

RB was a scapegoat for this offenses failures in play-calling and game managment.. that reflects directly on the coaching staff.

If MW goes to half the pro bowls that RB has gone to he will not be considered a bust or underacheiver that he is now.

[helmetguy]

So, juice, how does all that translate into RB's value as a "mentor" for MW? Do you carry an expensive veteran, on the downside of a career, who can't break into a line that is considered to have LESS talent than our own, just on the faint hope that he can motivate another veteran who's heart just doesn't seem to be in the game right now? It's time to move on, and time for MW to suck it up, get a set, and be accountable. It's that simple.

[juice]

If MW can deal with his Mental problems concerning his Grandmother, which I dought since it has been months since she passed and he's still feelin it, he's still behind on conditioning, and seems to be dealing with weight issues since last season, when he was lacking the footspeed to block speedrushers from the outside.


Originally posted by helmetguy
So, juice, how does all that translate into RB's value as a "mentor" for MW?

Brown was a United Way Member... the last lineman the Bills took with their 1st pick, and an 8X pro bowler.. those things made him an all-around team player worthy of retiring a Bill.

The Bills seem to have a History of running off their All Time Greats and then falling off for a decade or so.

I wonder if they made Kelly an offer he couldn't refuse.. He seems to be the only HOFer that didn't get run off.

OJ Simpson
Bruce Smith
Reed
T. Thomas

and now R. Brown the last link to the Great Bills Teams and he wasn't even given the option to stay, not even an offer. SHAMEFUL

[Tatonka]

oj simpson is "shameful"... murdering piece of crap.

dont put him on that list with bruce, reed, and thomas.

[juice]

Originally posted by Tatonka
oj simpson is "shameful"... murdering piece of crap.

dont put him on that list with bruce, reed, and thomas.

You mean the Best to ever play the position and the First Bill inducted into the HOF? Why would YOU deny an important part of League history... What was it about that Trial, That was Lost by the LAPD and Prosecuters office, That would cause you to turn your back on a Former Bill and ALL TIME GREAT?

Does team Loyalty mean anything to you?.. Because it doesn't seem to mean anything to this Franchise towards it's Former Franchise Players.

[Shiny Chicken]

No offense, juice, but you're wearing rose-colored spectacles... As has been said, time and time again... RB was done.... is done... he was always very popular but overrated... good but not great... and he's gotten to the point where he's not even good anymore. We can't keep him around just becase he's the "final link to the great Bills teams." Don't get carried away with your nostalgia.... This is the salary cap era. Teams can no longer afford to keep expensive veterans around that can no longer play. It's just the way it is. Did Thurman or Andre do anything of consequence after the left? No, their careers were over, they were old, worn down and done. Did Bruce? Yeah, but all he cared about was his sack record... and the man we had to replace him AT THE TIME, was playing much better than Bruce did for the rest of his career.

You have to remember this is the salary cap era.... you have to remember just how ineffective RB was for much of his time here. Pro Bowls don't always mean you're the best... just the most popular. Given the attitude problem he himself had... he'd likely only be making the MW situation worse. The 90's are over, juice. This is a new time, a new era.... move on.

I won't even get into OJ, but Juice, stop kidding yourself.... just because he was the greatest running back ever to play for us.. doesn't mean that we have to be loyal to him, even when it'sd obvious as all hell that he did do it.

[Tatonka]

oj did it..

sorry.. team loyalty goes out the door when you lop two peoples heads off with a knife.

[juice]

Originally posted by Shiny Chicken
No offense, juice, but you're wearing rose-colored spectacles... As has been said, time and time again... RB was done.... is done... he was always very popular but overrated... good but not great... and he's gotten to the point where he's not even good anymore. We can't keep him around just becase he's the "final link to the great Bills teams." Don't get carried away with your nostalgia.... This is the salary cap era. Teams can no longer afford to keep expensive veterans around that can no longer play. It's just the way it is. Did Thurman or Andre do anything of consequence after the left? No, their careers were over, they were old, worn down and done. Did Bruce? Yeah, but all he cared about was his sack record... and the man we had to replace him AT THE TIME, was playing much better than Bruce did for the rest of his career.

You have to remember this is the salary cap era.... you have to remember just how ineffective RB was for much of his time here. Pro Bowls don't always mean you're the best... just the most popular. Given the attitude problem he himself had... he'd likely only be making the MW situation worse. The 90's are over, juice. This is a new time, a new era.... move on.

I won't even get into OJ, but Juice, stop kidding yourself.... just because he was the greatest running back ever to play for us.. doesn't mean that we have to be loyal to him, even when it'sd obvious as all hell that he did do it.

No Offence taken Chicken.. But we could have made the attempt to keep RB on the roster, just discussed the numbers involved, if for no other reason to add depth to the OL.

It's not like we fielded an up and coming unit last season or had a great O-Line draft plan.

RB right now would be at least the 3rd best lineman on this unit and at least the second best guard.

We didn't save that much by letting him go as compared to what he signed for in Chi. so the business aspect doesn't wash.

"OJ did it", if thats your opinion then try and separate your opinion of his guilt from the accomplishments of his career 30 years ago.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by juice
No Offence taken Chicken.. But we could have made the attempt to keep RB on the roster, just discussed the numbers involved, if for no other reason to add depth to the OL.

It's not like we fielded an up and coming unit last season or had a great O-Line draft plan.

RB right now would be at least the 3rd best lineman on this unit and at least the second best guard.

We didn't save that much by letting him go as compared to what he signed for in Chi. so the business aspect doesn't wash.

"OJ did it", if thats your opinion then try and separate your opinion of his guilt from the accomplishments of his career 30 years ago.


ruben didnt want to take a pay cut.. they talked to him about it.

and as far as i am concerned.. everything that oj did 30 year ago.. is all overshadowed by killing 2 people.. so basically.. his accomplishments mean dog ****.. i wish he was never a bill and fried in the electric chair.

[TedMock]

I think at some point you just have to cut ties. Thurman lost significant PT to Antwain Smith and wasn't a shadow of himself, Bruce's production dropped significantly and wasn't a shadow of himself, Andre was just terrible his last season and lost out to Moulds. I have loyalty to all those guys for the great memories, but money aside, you have to take chances on younger guys sometimes. Ageing players that aren't very productive anymore just can't take up roster spots in today's NFL. It sucks, but that's the way it is now. As for OJ; killing two people after fooling all of for years that he was a "nice guy" was turning his back on all of us. Not only was that a brutal crime, but it was a slap in the face to any fan that looked up to him.

[Shiny Chicken]

Originally posted by Tatonka
ruben didnt want to take a pay cut.. they talked to him about it.

and as far as i am concerned.. everything that oj did 30 year ago.. is all overshadowed by killing 2 people.. so basically.. his accomplishments mean dog ****.. i wish he was never a bill and fried in the electric chair.

I dunno if I would go that far. I acknowledge his skills as a running back (although, juice, murderer or not, he was never the best rb of all time... there are a few names.... Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Emmit Smith... that I'm afraid have a bit of an edge on him) He was amazing. I respect him for how great he was on the football field. As a person, absolutely no respect at all.

[Shiny Chicken]

Originally posted by TedMock
I think at some point you just have to cut ties. Thurman lost significant PT to Antwain Smith and wasn't a shadow of himself, Bruce's production dropped significantly and wasn't a shadow of himself, Andre was just terrible his last season and lost out to Moulds. I have loyalty to all those guys for the great memories, but money aside, you have to take chances on younger guys sometimes. Ageing players that aren't very productive anymore just can't take up roster spots in today's NFL. It sucks, but that's the way it is now. As for OJ; killing two people after fooling all of for years that he was a "nice guy" was turning his back on all of us. Not only was that a brutal crime, but it was a slap in the face to any fan that looked up to him.

Very nicely put.

[juice]

Originally posted by Shiny Chicken
I dunno if I would go that far. I acknowledge his skills as a running back (although, juice, murderer or not, he was never the best rb of all time... there are a few names.... Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Emmit Smith... that I'm afraid have a bit of an edge on him) He was amazing. I respect him for how great he was on the football field. As a person, absolutely no respect at all.

What RB in league had a better season than his '73 campaign over 2000 yds in just 14 games?

Who is asking that anyone here respect him or anyone else for what they did on a football field.. You don't have to respect him as a person but as a fan you have to respect his game.
Originally posted by Tatonka
ruben didnt want to take a pay cut.. they talked to him about it.



Yeah I'm sure there was a whole bunch of long discussions.. Sure there were.

RB was the fall guy, and now him being made an example has left us with no line depth.

Maybe some of you guys can get some Pics. of Big Mike to see if he has reached the 380's yet.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by juice
Yeah I'm sure there was a whole bunch of long discussions.. Sure there were.



i am going by what TD said..

what do you have to dispute it? anything from ruben to say otherwise? didnt think so.

[helmetguy]

Still waiting to hear how RB would help solve the MW quandry...

[Hemlepp53]

Originally posted by juice
You mean the Best to ever play the position and the First Bill inducted into the HOF? Why would YOU deny an important part of League history... What was it about that Trial, That was Lost by the LAPD and Prosecuters office, That would cause you to turn your back on a Former Bill and ALL TIME GREAT?

Does team Loyalty mean anything to you?.. Because it doesn't seem to mean anything to this Franchise towards it's Former Franchise Players.

Have To Say O.J. AkA The Juice Is The Man On The Field... We all Know He Did It.. But Hey The Courts Found Him Not guilty So What Can WE Do.... Suck It Up And Claim To Have One Of The All Time Greatest To Ever Play The Game A Member Of Our PAst Squad...

[TedMock]

The courts also found him guilty of "wrongful deaths." The system is crazy. He's not guilty of murdering them, but he's responsible for their "wrongful deaths."

[juice]

Originally posted by helmetguy
Still waiting to hear how RB would help solve the MW quandry...

Maybe RB could give him his "RB Buns of steel" video.

RB never had a problem with Conditioning or weight.

[ShadowHawk7]

I think I agree w/ Henry on this one, we should of at least offered RB a paycut to stay on the team. He loved Buffalo, and was definitley into staying here, even if it meant taking a considerable paycut. While he definitley wasn't Pro Bowl material anymore, he was a team leader, and a still decent to good guard, with irreplaceable intangables. I'm not displacing Villarial, and I definitley could be wrong on this one, but I think RB would of been a good guy to keep around, by restucturing, ala Bledsoe, his contract.

[juice]

Originally posted by ShadowHawk7
I think I agree w/ Henry on this one, we should of at least offered RB a paycut to stay on the team. He loved Buffalo, and was definitley into staying here, even if it meant taking a considerable paycut. While he definitley wasn't Pro Bowl material anymore, he was a team leader, and a still decent to good guard, with irreplaceable intangables. I'm not displacing Villarial, and I definitley could be wrong on this one, but I think RB would of been a good guy to keep around, by restucturing, ala Bledsoe, his contract.

Good post Hawk, who assumes the role as the Line Leader now.. The only other 1st rd lineman the Bills have may have ballooned over 400 lbs and the best lineman left (JJ) will be a FA at seasons end.

[Bulldog]

Originally posted by juice
Good post Hawk, who assumes the role as the Line Leader now.. The only other 1st rd lineman the Bills have may have ballooned over 400 lbs and the best lineman left (JJ) will be a FA at seasons end.

Show me a link where it says Williams is over 400 lbs. Do you just make stuff up to support your arguments? And since when do you have to be selected in the first round to be a leader? Villarial(sp?) has been in the league for eight years. Whats to say he won't step into a leadership role? Teague, while not the best at his position, could very well step into a leadership role. You act like this line is full of rookies or something. Ruben Brown is gone, for better or for worse. Time to move on with the people we have.

[juice]

Originally posted by Bulldog
Show me a link where it says Williams is over 400 lbs. Do you just make stuff up to support your arguments? And since when do you have to be selected in the first round to be a leader? Villarial(sp?) has been in the league for eight years. Whats to say he won't step into a leadership role? Teague, while not the best at his position, could very well step into a leadership role. You act like this line is full of rookies or something. Ruben Brown is gone, for better or for worse. Time to move on with the people we have.

Buffalo News Reports:

"Team sources say that MW may have reached the 400 lb mark.."

Aren't you in the Rochester area? Do you read the newspapers?

I THINK R. Brown could have given this team some much needed LINE DEPTH, LEADERSHIP, and EXPERIENCE.

Let me know if you can't find the LINK.

Was Vallariel a team leader in Chi-Town.. seems to me like he must have been expendable since they were more than willing to basically swop us for our only Perrenial Pro-Bowler.

[Bulldog]

Originally posted by juice
Buffalo News Reports:

"Team sources say that MW may have reached the 400 lb mark.."

Aren't you in the Rochester area? Do you read the newspapers?

I THINK R. Brown could have given this team some much needed LINE DEPTH, LEADERSHIP, and EXPERIENCE.

Let me know if you can't find the LINK.

Was Vallariel a team leader in Chi-Town.. seems to me like he must have been expendable since they were more than willing to basically swop us for our only Perrenial Pro-Bowler.

Yeah, I do read the newspaper. I just don't take everything that a "team source" says as fact. Now if TD or MM or Rusty Jones or McNally were to come out and say they were concerned with Williams conditioning, I would be a bit more worried. And it seems to me the last time I checked, RB wasn't even starting for the Bears. Can you not come to grips with the fact that RB is finished and it's time to move on? You seem to be the only one on this entire board that thinks this highly of RB.

[juice]

MW himself said he was concerned with his conditioning.. And that he was behind in terminology, not to mention that the extra 25-30 lbs will make even a bigger liability when it comes to speed rushers.

RB will be a starter by the seasons 1st Bears game.. If nothing else by default.


Originally posted by Bulldog
Yeah, I do read the newspaper. I just don't take everything that a "team source" says as fact. Now if TD or MM or Rusty Jones or McNally were to come out and say they were concerned with Williams conditioning, I would be a bit more worried. And it seems to me the last time I checked, RB wasn't even starting for the Bears. Can you not come to grips with the fact that RB is finished and it's time to move on? You seem to be the only one on this entire board that thinks this highly of RB.

I'm the only one on this board that seems to know that very few Players in League History went to 8 straight Pro Bowls.

Are you threatened by someone with an opposing viewpoint from your own? Or are you just terrified that Mike Williams might pull a Ricky Williams and take early retirement?

[Bulldog]

Originally posted by juice
MW himself said he was concerned with his conditioning.. And that he was behind in terminology, not to mention that the extra 25-30 lbs will make even a bigger liability when it comes to speed rushers.

RB will be a starter by the seasons 1st Bears game.. If nothing else by default.



I'm the only one on this board that seems to know that very few Players in League History went to 8 straight Pro Bowls.

Are you threatened by someone with an opposing viewpoint from your own? Or are you just terrified that Mike Williams might pull a Ricky Williams and take early retirement?

Shouldn't a guy that's been to 8 straight Pro Bowls be able to win the job outright, and not by default?

I don't have any problem with people who have opposing viewpoints. Its just laughable to me that you are so stuck on the fact that we let an aging lineman with deteriorating skills walk.

You know what would be really cool juice? If you pulled a Ricky Williams and retired from this board.

[justasportsfan]

I agree. We should've kept RB. For vet minimum.

[juice]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
I agree. We should've kept RB. For vet minimum.

Brown may not have accepted the vet minimum after making another Pro-Bowl, but a concerted effort should have been made to keep the line leaders experience in Buffalo.. what we have now are a bunch of pieces to a puzzle that we can only hope McNally can piece together.

This line will have to learn from scratch how to play as a unit.

[Bulldog]

Originally posted by juice
This line will have to learn from scratch how to play as a unit.

All because we lost one starter from our O-line? Have you already been expanding your mind today?

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by juice
Brown may not have accepted the vet minimum after making another Pro-Bowl, then I don't want him. I'm not paying a guy who made probowl for making so much penalties more than vet min.

[juice]

Originally posted by Bulldog
All because we lost one starter from our O-line? Have you already been expanding your mind today?

New RT, new RG, questions at C, and Pucillo at LG.. That sounds like a unit ready to Jell to you?

[Bulldog]

Originally posted by juice
New RT, new RG, questions at C, and Pucillo at LG.. That sounds like a unit ready to Jell to you?

LT-Jennings(Same)
LG-Pucillo(Played with unit last year)
C-Teague(Same)
RG-Villerial(New)
RT-Williams(Same)

Don't tell me this unit will have to start from over from scratch. Basically Pucillo flopped from RG to LG and Villerial was brought in to man the RG position. And I still think that the LG position is still up in the air. And by the way, your favorite whipping boy Williams will be starting @ RT by week one.

[juice]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
then I don't want him. I'm not paying a guy who made probowl for making so much penalties more than vet min.

Penalties come with the job, and holding penalties are better than getting your QB drilled.. That is one aspect that RB could have helped MW with.
Originally posted by Bulldog
LT-Jennings(Same)
LG-Pucillo(Played with unit last year)
C-Teague(Same)
RG-Villerial(New)
RT-Williams(Same)

Don't tell me this unit will have to start from over from scratch. Basically Pucillo flopped from RG to LG and Villerial was brought in to man the RG position. And I still think that the LG position is still up in the air. And by the way, your favorite whipping boy Williams will be starting @ RT by week one.

Who out of this bunch has Pro-Bowl potential?

We all HOPE MW will be ready to start by week 1, but will he be ready to dominate?

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by juice
Penalties come with the job, and holding penalties are better than getting your QB drilled.. That is one aspect that RB could have helped MW with. False starts? Why is it he had the most if he's such a huge asset. If he's constantly holding, that means he can't hold his own . It's one thing to get owned by 1 player but several players from different team means, he's getting beaten.




Originally posted by juice
Who out of this bunch has Pro-Bowl potential?

We all HOPE MW will be ready to start by week 1, but will he be ready to dominate? [/B] nobodysaid they were probowl material. It was just pointed out that you said the OL would need to start from scratch which isn't really true. Now the fins, definitely.

[juice]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
False starts? Why is it he had the most if he's such a huge asset. If he's constantly holding, that means he can't hold his own . It's one thing to get owned by 1 player but several players from different team means, he's getting beaten.

There is holding on most plays, its part of playing the position and is coached by most O-Line position coaches.. How many False-start penalties did he actually have.. and how many games did it cost the team?
nobodysaid they were probowl material. It was just pointed out that you said the OL would need to start from scratch which isn't really true. Now the fins, definitely.

I would guess you would want to have at least one player with the potential to make the Pro-Bowl on your O-Line since that is the standard used in the League.

Returning starters is how you build a cohesive O-Line, By changing the positions and starters the Line has to learn to jell, and that may take an entire season of playing together.

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by juice
I would guess you would want to have at least one player with the potential to make the Pro-Bowl on your O-Line since that is the standard used in the League.

Returning starters is how you build a cohesive O-Line, By changing the positions and starters the Line has to learn to jell, and that may take an entire season of playing together. You talk like he played as well as he did during his prime just because he made probowl last year.

What are you talking about? Villarial is the only new player. They know each other already. You talk like our OL is gonna be a bust just because we let go of a player who made probowl by name?

Do yourself a favor, wait til' season starts and I'll agree with you if our OL will end up worse than last year. You are crying over "expired" spilled milk.

[juice]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
I agree. We should've kept RB. For vet minimum.

Who were you agreeing with here Justa? All I said is that he, and probably most other players that have 8 consecutive Pro-Bowls, Would never consider playing for the VET. MINIMUM.. It doesn't even make since what you are argueing to me about some spilled milk being expired.

What would be TD justification in asking a player that ALOT of people in the League, PLAYERS, WRITERS, AND COACHES, think was one of the top 4 in the ENTIRE League, to ask him to be paid like a Pucillo who should be no more than a Depth Chart Player, Your Arguement Has NO Merit... and it all started with you agreeing with the FACT that R. BROWN could have been a Productive Player on this Line and was willing to Talk REDOING his contract like Drew Bledsoe.

Next Time try Disagreeing with me first and then work in your point about "Expired Milk"

"Do yourself a favor" and take a look at the team OL depth, Who does Mularky think McNally is.. a Miracle Worker.

I THINK you will agree that keeping RB Could have and Should Have been more of a PRIORITY.

Mike Williams will labor with his conditioning going into the season, he as of right now isn't ready to be a Starter.

[Bulldog]

Originally posted by juice
Who were you agreeing with here Justa? All I said is that he, and probably most other players that have 8 consecutive Pro-Bowls, Would never consider playing for the VET. MINIMUM.. It doesn't even make since what you are argueing to me about some spilled milk being expired.

What would be TD justification in asking a player that ALOT of people in the League, PLAYERS, WRITERS, AND COACHES, think was one of the top 4 in the ENTIRE League, to ask him to be paid like a Pucillo who should be no more than a Depth Chart Player, Your Arguement Has NO Merit... and it all started with you agreeing with the FACT that R. BROWN could have been a Productive Player on this Line and was willing to Talk REDOING his contract like Drew Bledsoe.

Next Time try Disagreeing with me first and then work in your point about "Expired Milk"

"Do yourself a favor" and take a look at the team OL depth, Who does Mularky think McNally is.. a Miracle Worker.

I THINK you will agree that keeping RB Could have and Should Have been more of a PRIORITY.

Mike Williams will labor with his conditioning going into the season, he as of right now isn't ready to be a Starter.

If RB has so much respect throughout the league, then why were the Bears the only ones that showed any kind of interest in him? For you to say he is one of the top four players at his position in the entire NFL is just plain ******ed.

[juice]

Originally posted by Bulldog
If RB has so much respect throughout the league, then why were the Bears the only ones that showed any kind of interest in him? For you to say he is one of the top four players at his position in the entire NFL is just plain ******ed.

I didn't just say it but the Pro-Bowl voters also said it.

Maybe they should start letting Fan Board Posters determine who the best players are.. We're all knowledgeable, But until that happens we may as well just take the opinion of PLAYERS and COACHES.

You may think your more qualified but last year the "Election Voting Polls" must have been run by R. Brown fan club members.

[Bulldog]

Originally posted by juice
I didn't just say it but the Pro-Bowl voters also said it.

Maybe they should start letting Fan Board Posters determine who the best players are.. We're all knowledgeable, But until that happens we may as well just take the opinion of PLAYERS and COACHES.

You may think your more qualified but last year the "Election Voting Polls" must have been run by R. Brown fan club members.

You never answered my question. If RB is so respected throughout the league, why were the Bears the only team that showed ant interest once the Bills released him? Also, how long did RB sit on the open market before the Bears finally contacted him?

[Novacane]

Ruben




Brown





S U C K S

[juice]

Originally posted by Bulldog
You never answered my question. If RB is so respected throughout the league, why were the Bears the only team that showed ant interest once the Bills released him? Also, how long did RB sit on the open market before the Bears finally contacted him?

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were asking me a question... Who said he was "So respected throughout the League"?

I said he was Voted into the Pro Bowl last year and that we could use his Experience and Leadership on this years Line.

[Bulldog]

Originally posted by juice
What would be TD justification in asking a player that ALOT of people in the League, PLAYERS, WRITERS, AND COACHES, think was one of the top 4 in the ENTIRE League, to ask him to be paid like a Pucillo who should be no more than a Depth Chart Player

Well he must be respected if the PLAYERS, WRITERS, and COACHES think he was one of the top four players at his position in the ENTIRE league right?

[The_Philster]

quit with the popularity contest mentions already :rolleyes:

[TypicalBill]

RUBEN IS A BEAR


GOOD LUCK TO HIM


HE AINT COMING BACK



:p:

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by TypicalBill
RUBEN IS A BEAR


GOOD LUCK TO HIM


HE AINT COMING BACK



:p:
:rofl:

[Novacane]

YOu don't have to scream TB :D

[Novacane]

Originally posted by TypicalBill
RUBEN IS A BEAR IN BED








:eek:

[TypicalBill]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
YOu don't have to scream TB :D

Im not :D .. i didn't use !!!!! :p:

[Gunzlingr]

Rueben's time has passed. If he wanted to stay here, he would have taken the cuts and stayed. He is now a bench warmer for the bears depleted line, and we added villarial to replace him. Good bye Rueben, God Bless, game over.

[juice]

Villarial plays on the right side.. Puccillo or someBODY will be the acting LG.. and will probably be the reason JJ cant wait to jump ship.

If we did replace RB with Villaria we got hosed, and the FO will have made their biggest mistake since hiring GW.

Would you too have asked an 8X consecutive Pro-Bowler to play for the League minimum... But thats probably what happened and thats the reason we're an injured Lineman away from repeating the offensive display from last year.

With big Mike flaking out, this O-LINE is less settled than it was last year.

[Goobylal]

Ruben is reportedly in danger of being cut by the Bears. He came to camp overweight and the Bears didn't name him the starter and he's PO'd over that. He was a great guy off the field, but his best days are long gone.

[juice]

Originally posted by Goobylal
Ruben is reportedly in danger of being cut by the Bears. He came to camp overweight and the Bears didn't name him the starter and he's PO'd over that. He was a great guy off the field, but his best days are long gone.

LINK?

[Goobylal]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

[HenryRules]

Here's my viewpoint ...

does anyone really think that Pucillo is better than RB? I hope not, because then you didn't watch the Bills play last year.

Cutting RB (which didn't give us any extra cap room this year, but saved room in the future) was a move with the future in mind. It was pretty much writing off this year and saying that we are building for the future. If we were trying for the best record this year, then having RB at LG vs. MP is a hands-down RB decision (regardless of how far you think RB has dropped off recently).

If that's what you're looking for in a GM/president (building a record of 17-31 and then still building for the future) then I suppose letting RB go is indicative of a solid plan. However, if you expect more than 17-31 in the first 3 years and a plan for the now within the 4th year of a GM era, then I propose that cutting RB was an admission of failure.

[Goobylal]

Originally posted by HenryRules
Here's my viewpoint ...

does anyone really think that Pucillo is better than RB? I hope not, because then you didn't watch the Bills play last year.

Cutting RB (which didn't give us any extra cap room this year, but saved room in the future) was a move with the future in mind. It was pretty much writing off this year and saying that we are building for the future. If we were trying for the best record this year, then having RB at LG vs. MP is a hands-down RB decision (regardless of how far you think RB has dropped off recently).

If that's what you're looking for in a GM/president (building a record of 17-31 and then still building for the future) then I suppose letting RB go is indicative of a solid plan. However, if you expect more than 17-31 in the first 3 years and a plan for the now within the 4th year of a GM era, then I propose that cutting RB was an admission of failure.
Holy moly Batman, you couldn't me more wrong if you tried! Ruben is done. Finished. Kaput. Stick a fork in him. As I posted above, he's probably not even going to make the Bears, and if he does, probably won't start. He has no chance of getting better, but Pucillo does. I'll trust McNally to make the determination.

[saviorbledsoe]

lets get Fina back too

[juice]

Originally posted by HenryRules
Here's my viewpoint ...

does anyone really think that Pucillo is better than RB? I hope not, because then you didn't watch the Bills play last year.

Cutting RB (which didn't give us any extra cap room this year, but saved room in the future) was a move with the future in mind. It was pretty much writing off this year and saying that we are building for the future. If we were trying for the best record this year, then having RB at LG vs. MP is a hands-down RB decision (regardless of how far you think RB has dropped off recently).

If that's what you're looking for in a GM/president (building a record of 17-31 and then still building for the future) then I suppose letting RB go is indicative of a solid plan. However, if you expect more than 17-31 in the first 3 years and a plan for the now within the 4th year of a GM era, then I propose that cutting RB was an admission of failure.

I Agree, with a top ranked Defense ready to contend what since did it make to shuffle the line unless we were going to bring in some QUALITY replacements.

We Lost Experience, We lost Leadership, and now Pucillo is protecting DB's blind side.. We are setting DB up to fail.

[casdhf]

We also lost a failing blocker.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by Goobylal
Holy moly Batman, you couldn't me more wrong if you tried! Ruben is done. Finished. Kaput. Stick a fork in him. As I posted above, he's probably not even going to make the Bears, and if he does, probably won't start. He has no chance of getting better, but Pucillo does. I'll trust McNally to make the determination.

Did you actually read the post?

I agree Pucillo has a chance to get better ... that's why I said choosing him was a choice <i>for the future</i>.

Do you honestly think that Pucillo is better this year than Ruben Brown? You have to be kidding about that. Brown is not good, but Pucillo is hardly NFL backup calibre at the moment.