Thoughts on Rashaud Baker (FS) [Archive] - BillsZone.com

ryjam282

08-23-2004, 09:24 AM

Goobylal

08-23-2004, 09:42 AM

Tatonka

08-23-2004, 09:46 AM

I hope they install him as a starter sooner rather than later. Let him take his lumps early so that he'll be fine by later-on in the season. I just haven't been impressed with any of the other FS's, including Reese.

i couldnt agree more.

i was really really pulling for coy wire.. but it does not look like that is going to work out.. so let coy back up milloy.. and be the steve tasker of the team.

put baker at FS and let that slug reese back him up.

juice

08-23-2004, 09:57 AM

I think this kid has looked great. Always seems to be in the play. Whenever a ball went deep, he was there. When someone tried to come across on a deep post, he was there. He even blitzed a few times and got good pressure. What do you guys think of him? I honestly think he will be our starter sometime this season...

:feedback:

Ryan

Rookies at FS tend to end up as Burnt Toast. No experience and he is only 5'10.. Look at the first Titan TD pass where Vincint got outjumped in the corner of the Endzone.. You need size at FS in the NFL, unless you have corners with the athletic ability of Bailey or Woodson.

Baker definitly deserves a shot but he lacks the experience to be the starter and the size to be effective in this Defense.. But I would keep him before Wire, he seems to be able to do the things that Coy can do and isn't a coverage liability.

juice

08-23-2004, 10:04 AM

.. and be the steve tasker of the team.

put baker at FS and let that slug reese back him up.

How many times did the Starting DB's get beat Deep in the Titans game.. Now what kind of confidence would you have if Coy "Coverage Liability" Wire was sitting back there.

Baker is a rookie and he will get his shot but he has the size of a CB.

I haven't seen Reese do anything to hurt himself as the starter, He just plays a solid FS, Coverage first, run support second.

Jayhawk

08-23-2004, 10:06 AM

yeah I like him alot, but give him some time in preseason to see if he can get some reps in. I like that Coy could be a good speical teams player

DraftBoy

08-23-2004, 11:49 AM

How many times did the Starting DB's get beat Deep in the Titans game.. Now what kind of confidence would you have if Coy "Coverage Liability" Wire was sitting back there.

Baker is a rookie and he will get his shot but he has the size of a CB.

I haven't seen Reese do anything to hurt himself as the starter, He just plays a solid FS, Coverage first, run support second.

Thats more the problem than the answer. Reese is solid we will all agree with that but he aint much better than that and thats a problem. You want a playmaker at FS and Baker has to this point shown that potential Reese has not, he's a stop gap not a starter. Time to hand the reins over imo. Also its not all about size. Baker runs the 40 like a CB which allows for him to be undersized bc he can come over the top of the routes. Also FS arent typically the ones going up for jumpballs, thats the CB jobs bc typically they are only thrown in 1-on-1 coverage. Baker was compared to Reese in the sporting news draft guide, just a much better playmaker, with better hands. Give Baker his shot! :peace:

ryjam282

08-23-2004, 11:55 AM

I have to agree Draftboy. What does a FS and a jumpball pass to the outside in a goaline situation have to do with each other? I can't remember the last time I saw Ronnie Lott get over and swat a ball down on one of those goaline fade routes. But, anyways, Baker has shown me a lot and I would like to see what could do against the starting units in the future and see if he is for real. He has been playing lights out since we signed him.

TigerJ

08-23-2004, 12:09 PM

It's nice to have a free safety who's 6'3" and runs like a gazelle, but there are free safeties who've made it and haven't been any bigger than Baker. I've forgotten his name, but Tennessee (with Gregg Williams as defensive coordinator) had a strong safety who was a lot smaller than might be considered ideal for the role he played, but he did it and did it well. I don't think it's any different for free safety.

mysticsoto

08-23-2004, 12:22 PM

Personally, I think Baker is doing fine and that we should keep him as a backup. Milloy isn't going to be with us forever. My only concern is roster spots. But with Mularkey using vets to play special teams, some of the people kept specifically for special teams can now be let go.

My personal 1st few would be: Jon Dorenbos, Antonion Brown, Clarence Colemen, K. Beard, Drew Haddad, R. Trafford...to start with.

I don't think any of these has shown anything worth anything before or during the pre-season so far. They're cannon fodder to me.

Tatonka

08-23-2004, 12:24 PM

It's nice to have a free safety who's 6'3" and runs like a gazelle, but there are free safeties who've made it and haven't been any bigger than Baker.

the safeties that are 6'3" and run like gazelles are taken in the first round.. ie, sean taylor.. roy williams, and ed reed.

Tatonka

08-23-2004, 12:26 PM

How many times did the Starting DB's get beat Deep in the Titans game.. Now what kind of confidence would you have if Coy "Coverage Liability" Wire was sitting back there.

did you even read my post??

i stated that coy has not shown enough to get the job.. and that we need to turn our focus to someone who has. that someone is baker..

reese will never be anything.. almost any free safety in the league should get at least 2-3 picks by default.. and reese cant even come close to getting that..

it has been THREE YEARS since we had a FS that got a pick during a regular season game.

BillsRockSOMUCH

08-23-2004, 12:29 PM

it has been THREE YEARS since we had a FS that got a pick during a regular season game.
That is very sad. :sigh:

Tatonka

08-23-2004, 12:31 PM

yeah.. it is.. and reese has been here for 2 of those.

Novacane

08-23-2004, 12:35 PM

That is very sad. :sigh:

more that sad......it is ridiculas

juice

08-23-2004, 12:39 PM

Thats more the problem than the answer. Reese is solid we will all agree with that but he aint much better than that and thats a problem. You want a playmaker at FS and Baker has to this point shown that potential Reese has not, he's a stop gap not a starter. Time to hand the reins over imo. Also its not all about size. Baker runs the 40 like a CB which allows for him to be undersized bc he can come over the top of the routes. Also FS arent typically the ones going up for jumpballs, thats the CB jobs bc typically they are only thrown in 1-on-1 coverage. Baker was compared to Reese in the sporting news draft guide, just a much better playmaker, with better hands. Give Baker his shot! :peace:

:shocked: You dont want a rookie starting at FS and you dont always want a "Playmaker" especially one who has no experience, Those attempts at making the "Big Play" are going to lead to him getting Burned and called for Penalties more often than a Veteran who knows his Role.

Role players can be as important a part of a cohesive unit as the Playmakers, its the effective use of both that leads to a top Defense.

ryjam282

08-23-2004, 12:44 PM

:shocked: You dont want a rookie starting at FS and you dont always want a "Playmaker" especially one who has no experience, Those attempts at making the "Big Play" are going to lead to him getting Burned and called for Penalties more often than a Veteran who knows his Role.

Role players can be as important a part of a cohesive unit as the Playmakers, its the effective use of both that leads to a top Defense.

Are you serious? I guess Roy Williams shouldn't have started at safety for Dallas then right or Sean Taylor this year cause they have no experience. That is a joke. All of these guys, including Baker, know the position and know it well. They always seem to be in the vicinity of the ball. Baker is no different he just lacks some of the size, but size alone doesn't make a safety. He is a good tackler and reads plays well. What more do we need?

Hey T, remember when we were all pulling for Wire and someone posted that we were pulling for him cause he was white??? What are they thinking now, cause last time I checked Baker is the antithesis of white :D

Mr. Cynical

08-23-2004, 12:52 PM

i couldnt agree more.

i was really really pulling for coy wire.. but it does not look like that is going to work out.. so let coy back up milloy.. and be the steve tasker of the team.

put baker at FS and let that slug reese back him up.I'm on the same page. And to be honest, I think Coy would be okay with that role, e.g., backup SS and special teams "ace". I mean, Coy's engine and hitting has always been his strength, so it fits. And there's not one person in Buffalo that is gonna say Tasker was not extremely instrumental in the success of the Bills in the early 90s. Finally, Milloy is not a young guy, so there will be the opportunity to step in when he steps off.

Mr. Cynical

08-23-2004, 12:53 PM

Hey T, remember when we were all pulling for Wire and someone posted that we were pulling for him cause he was white??? What are they thinking now, cause last time I checked Baker is the antithesis of white :D
I remember...and I am still :rolleyes: about it.

juice

08-23-2004, 01:25 PM

Are you serious? I guess Roy Williams shouldn't have started at safety for Dallas then right or Sean Taylor this year cause they have no experience. That is a joke. All of these guys, including Baker, know the position and know it well. :D

Speaking of Jokes did you just compare R. Williams and S. Taylor to R. Baker?

How can they know the position if they have never played it on this Level.. Thats like saying a good H.S. player can go to FSU and start because the position is the same on the HS and College level. :trance:

ryjam282

08-23-2004, 01:33 PM

Speaking of Jokes did you just compare R. Williams and S. Taylor to R. Baker?

How can they know the position if they have never played it on this Level.. Thats like saying a good H.S. player can go to FSU and start because the position is the same on the HS and College level. :trance:

I wasn't comparing at all in terms of skill. Simply stating that they all have similar experience at the position. Now, as far as FSU goes, I think I could go and start at FSU at safety cause they suck. However, I know I could not go to Miami and start cause the Canes are that damn good... :D

juice

08-23-2004, 01:42 PM

I wasn't comparing at all in terms of skill. Simply stating that they all have similar experience at the position. Now, as far as FSU goes, I think I could go and start at FSU at safety cause they suck. However, I know I could not go to Miami and start cause the Canes are that damn good... :D

Williams and Taylor are physical specimans.. Baker is 5'10 with pretty good skills but he's not the same caliber of athlete as these guys and wont be a starter in this League until he has paid his dues and learned the Pro Game.

Give him a year or two to learn the game and he may be a player in this League.

Tatonka

08-23-2004, 02:49 PM

DraftBoy

08-23-2004, 02:57 PM

Williams and Taylor are physical specimans.. Baker is 5'10 with pretty good skills but he's not the same caliber of athlete as these guys and wont be a starter in this League until he has paid his dues and learned the Pro Game.

Give him a year or two to learn the game and he may be a player in this League.

So you'd rather sit back there with a FS who no better than average and still gets burned his fair share. Over a rookie who has shown to us to be near the ball and come close to a few picks and made solid picks. Here Ill make the comparison for you also: Roy Williams, Ed Reed, and Sean Taylor are all FS who have/are gonna start as rookies and if you really wanna get into the comparisons we can: Sean Taylor 6-3 220, 4.40, Rashad Baker 5-10 1/2, 190, 4.48, Ed Reed 5-11 200, n/a, Roy Williams 6-0, 235, n/a. So he a 1/2 shorter than Reed runs the 40 in almost the exact same time as Taylor, and Im relatively sure Reed ran nearly the same time and Williams alittle slower. He is nearly the same size of all these safeties (minus Taylor obviously). He hits, makes plays on the balls, and has picked up the D and was brought on later than all the other draft picks. Reed has 21 career INT's all at FS, Roy Williams had 9 career interceptions, Sean Taylor had 14 career INT's all at FS, Rashad Baker had 11 all at FS(Note these are from their college years). So once again Baker has comparable if not better career INT's than the big three although he is once again outshined by one (in this case Ed Reed). All were starters or played in every game since their freshman year I think. So Baker is comparable in both career stats and size. Anything else you wanna compare?

juice

08-23-2004, 03:06 PM

And you want to make this Rookie the starter? Was Baker a 1st rd pick or what. I think he will be lucky to make the Practice squad.. Wire has the ST aspect to fall back on, What has Baker done to put him in the class of a Ed Reed.

Reese was the best and most experienced FS on this squad last year and he hasn't done anything to hurt his chances of holding on to that #1 FS position.

DraftBoy

08-23-2004, 03:07 PM

And you want to make this Rookie the starter? Was Baker a 1st rd pick or what. I think he will be lucky to make the Practice squad.. Wire has the ST aspect to fall back on, What has Baker done to put him in the class of a Ed Reed.

You mean aside from come from nowhere and blow away the rest of the FS on the team by far...not much but then again anything over last year is an improvement. Reese is good depth but nothing else...plain and simple.

juice

08-23-2004, 03:09 PM

You mean aside from come from nowhere and blow away the rest of the FS on the team by far...not much but then again anything over last year is an improvement. Reese is good depth but nothing else...plain and simple.

Yeah hopefully he'll make the team but I see him as a Practice Squad player more than a Sean Taylor type impact player.

He blew you away Huh? What did he do again in the Games?

DraftBoy

08-23-2004, 03:12 PM

Nobody is saying he'll make a Sean Taylor like impact. All im saying is that Baker couldnt do any worse than Reese.

juice

08-23-2004, 03:23 PM

Nobody is saying he'll make a Sean Taylor like impact. All im saying is that Baker couldnt do any worse than Reese.

And what has Reese dont thus far this season that has hurt the teams chances of winning.. Trust me a rookie could do alot worse, lets see if he makes the team first before we annoint him to a starting position.

You bought up the sean Taylor, Ed Reed comparisons.

DraftBoy

08-23-2004, 03:27 PM

juice

08-23-2004, 03:33 PM

No you were the one who brought it up about there was no comparison, all I did was show you that your statement was quite false and the 4 compare relatively well. What reese has done thus far to hurt his chances of making the team are simple. The answer is nothing. He hasnt done anything yet in 2 seasons. Id rather have PP playing FS than Reese atleast with PP I know what Im getting. Reese is always a question mark. I not only think Baker makes the squad but that he beats out Reese eventually for the starting roll, assuming Vincent doesnt continue to **** the bed.

No Ryjam bought it up then you tried to prove his point for him, which is not possible because your comparing two potntial Pro Bowlers to a practice squad player.. I just bought up how rediculous you guys comparison was.

Reese plays solid.. you may need to watch closely and not listen to fellow posters.

DraftBoy

08-23-2004, 03:48 PM

I think your the one who has to watch closesly. Never in 2 years has Reese made any INT's. What do you want from a FS? I sure as hell want some INT's.

juice

08-23-2004, 03:53 PM

I think your the one who has to watch closesly. Never in 2 years has Reese made any INT's. What do you want from a FS? I sure as hell want some INT's.

In this defense I could live with not getting beat deep, the Key is the role that is needed in THIS DEFENSE.

INT.s are a result of pressure being applied to the QB more than it is aggressive FS Play. Follow me?

DraftBoy

08-23-2004, 03:55 PM

Nope :). Look at our team we cant put pressure on the QB therefor we need to compensate with aggressive FS play. Follow me?

juice

08-23-2004, 06:37 PM

Nope :). Look at our team we cant put pressure on the QB therefor we need to compensate with aggressive FS play. Follow me?

Aggressive FS play is also known as getting your Rookies Toasted.. Its up to the D-Coordinator to put in some Blitzs or stunts that will create the pressure.

How many teams have FS's that end up with a large # of Int.s that change the teams season for the Better.. FS is the last line of D-Fense you maybe want your SS to get the picks and then if he misses the FS is there to make the tackle not a FS that takes risks.

I've never heard of a Playoff team and a top Three Defense that couldn't pressure the QB.

HenryRules

08-23-2004, 07:16 PM

Haven't seen a game, so my opinions on this are worth about zilch, but I'd like to see Baker get some starts in preseason to see if its just a case of playing against the second team or if he's really that good.

i've been really impressed by everything I've heard though and hope that he can finallky be the solution at FS.

Tatonka

08-23-2004, 09:37 PM

i noticed that coy wire did work with the 1st defense some in this last game..

he was not bad.. he got beat on a long pass to calico.. but i guarentee that he was not supposed to be the one covering him alone.. and he we right with him.

Tatonka

08-23-2004, 09:38 PM

but i am not implying that wire should start.. before anyone says that i am.. maybe just that he is getting better.

BADTHINGSMAN

08-24-2004, 12:52 AM

Baker surely is physical, I was cringing when I saw Baker hit Watts in the Denver game.. I think Reese will be the starter still..

Sennsai

08-25-2004, 07:00 AM

I think it's a good move for everyone that Wire was moved back to SS.
I do not give the " Baker is a rookie, he'll get burnt" line any credit. Everyone is raving about him. He played FS 4 years in college, he knows the position, he shouldn't get burnt if he's THAT good.
Wire was burnt a few times as a rookie and everyone jumped on it, even though Wire never had any coverage experience.. ever.
Don't make excuses now for Baker if he doesn't do the job well.

I guess we forget that EVERYONE gets burnt at times. How little do we forget. Selective memory is rampant on the board.

justasportsfan

08-25-2004, 08:20 AM

juice

08-25-2004, 11:43 AM

Tell that to John Fox, He should never have started Julius Peppers.

Peppers at FS?

Tatonka

08-25-2004, 12:11 PM

Peppers at FS?

are you a rocket scientist?

juice

08-25-2004, 12:14 PM

are you a rocket scientist?

No a VT Grad. Are you a HIGHLY paid Anal-Lyst?

BlueFire

08-25-2004, 03:28 PM

No Ryjam bought it up then you tried to prove his point for him, which is not possible because your comparing two potntial Pro Bowlers to a practice squad player.. I just bought up how rediculous you guys comparison was.

Reese plays solid.. you may need to watch closely and not listen to fellow posters.

I wasn't comparing at all in terms of skill. Simply stating that they all have similar experience at the position. Now, as far as FSU goes, I think I could go and start at FSU at safety cause they suck. However, I know I could not go to Miami and start cause the Canes are that damn good...

What don't you understand about that first line? He said NOTHING about the imapct they'd make being comparable, in fact he simply stated that he wasn't comparing them at all in terms of skill, and neither was Draftboy, yet you continued to argue against them being similar in skill/impact on the team, which wasn't at all what they were discussing.

ShadowHawk7

09-20-2004, 09:53 AM

Wow, most of us were sure wrong about him. Gotta laugh at those claiming he should start opening day, against the "awful" Reese.

Baker looked absolutely horrid out there. Got burned badly for the the only Raider touchdown, (Why was he on the field on that play anyway?) and screwed up majorly on the onside kick he could of totally gotten for us. Gonna have to agree w/ Juice on this one. This kid just isn't ready for the Primetime. I think he does have the talent though, to be a solid backup, maybe starting FS in 05, 06, etc, but not yet. I'm totally fine w/ Reese right now.

juice

09-20-2004, 10:01 AM

i couldnt agree more.

i was really really pulling for coy wire.. but it does not look like that is going to work out.. so let coy back up milloy.. and be the steve tasker of the team.

put baker at FS and let that slug reese back him up.
Good Throwback-Thread Shadow..

Reese looked pretty consistent for the second week, To only be a slug..

And Baker has looked like an Undrafted Rookie FA in both games.

The_Philster

09-20-2004, 05:54 PM

Good Throwback-Thread Shadow..

Reese looked pretty consistent for the second week, To only be a slug..

And Baker has looked like an Undrafted Rookie FA in both games.
as much as he impressed me in the preseason, I didn't expect him to be a superstar in the regular season.

juice

09-20-2004, 06:22 PM

as much as he impressed me in the preseason, I didn't expect him to be a superstar in the regular season.
Why was he even in the Game.. Was it a Nickle Defense or Prevent? Who did he replace, Reese? That one play was the biggest factor in the Style of game our offense played, and the major reason we lost. :winkpunch