Michael Vick

[The Spaz]

How about that Michael Vick isn't he the greatest Qb ever? I mean come on the guy has a rocket arm and has 4.4 speed man what a QB this guy is going to be. (sarcasm) :funny: I think they should start Matt Schaub. :;

[B-DON]

it's only preseason :snooze:

[The Spaz]

it's only preseason :snooze:

Your right and he's sucked all preseason. I really don't know if that offense really suits Vick. Two years ago that offense was run for and all by Vick know it's geared more toward the whole offense. I think he can be good but not the greatest in the world like all the hype has made him out to be.

[ParanoidAndroid]

It's awefully difficult to deny his ability. He's shown that he can carry an offense when he's the main weapon. I think Atlanta is making a huge mistake not gearing the offense more to fit him.

[Crisis]

He better do good, I have him in two FF leagues.

[The Spaz]

It's awefully difficult to deny his ability. He's shown that he can carry an offense when he's the main weapon. I think Atlanta is making a huge mistake not gearing the offense more to fit him.

You are probably right Vicks accuracy stinks.

[Marvelous]

Vick is all hype. I think almost all teams will pressure the hell outta him and make him thread the needle to complete passes.

[Marino13Phins]

I wouldn't say vick is "all hype". He no doubt has skills. Last years injury obviously slowed him down. And he is still very young. To write this guy off already is insane. He should develop into a very good qb.

[Slim]

this guy is AMAZING, 2 years ago despite having bad accuracy he still had enogh leadership to get them into the 2nd round of the playoffs, beating the packers in the 1st round.

[DraftBoy]

Funny how we can criticize other teams/peoples crappy performances but when it comes to our team: "It doesnt matter its just preseason!" Gimme a break, if you gonna criticize atleast be fair

[The Spaz]

Funny how we can criticize other teams/peoples crappy performances but when it comes to our team: "It doesnt matter its just preseason!" Gimme a break, if you gonna criticize atleast be fair

I think Bledsoe's preseason has been better than Vick's don't you think?

[The Spaz]

Funny how we can criticize other teams/peoples crappy performances but when it comes to our team: "It doesnt matter its just preseason!" Gimme a break, if you gonna criticize atleast be fair

What are you talking about there are plenty of threads bashing the Bills of the inconsistency and the penalties.

[Marino13Phins]

What are you talking about there are plenty of threads bashing the Bills of the inconsistency and the penalties.

Yea. I plan on starting a few myself!

[The Spaz]

Yea. I plan on starting a few myself!

It hould be the 100th thread after you complain about the Dolphins problems 1st. :funny: :peace:

[RedEyE]

On Vick's INT tonight:

Although he should have just have taken the sack, did anyone else see Peerless Price just watch the INT happen? He just let the guy run up for the pick and the burn it down field. What a team player!

[The Spaz]

On Vick's INT tonight:

Although he should have just have taken the sack, did anyone else see Peerless Price just watch the INT happen? He just let the guy run up for the pick and the burn it down field. What a team player!

He's a true #1 ass! :funny:

[northernbillfan]

He better do good, I have him in two FF leagues.

Amen to that. He's my starter in one of my FFLs

[Drive 4 Five]

No doubt that Vick is an exceptionally talented player, I just cannot freakin' stand how he is so often referred to as the best player in the game, the Michael Jordan of football. The hype just goes on and on...maybe he's just all wrapped up in his own ability. It gets old. He hasn't done ****! :yap:

[Mr. Cynical]

Wow people have short memories. Before the injury he was unstoppable. He needed time to bounce back. Maybe the offense isn't suited for him at this point in time (pre-season) but you can't deny his ridiculously great athleticism. His second year was his first and only one full year was:

2002 | 15 | 231/421 54.9% 2936Yds, 7.0Y/A, 16TD, 8INT | Run: 113ATT 777Yds 8TD

Agreed his accuracy is suspect at this point, but he does well with the Y/A and TD/INT ratio (especially since this was his first year as a starter). And 777 yards with 8 TDs rushing makes him a starting back on alot of teams :jawdrop:

Now, I know a QB needs to throw and not run. But he makes Kordell or Flutie look slow and meek even in their primes. His threat to run 777 yards is waaaay beyond anything any DC has ever had to face. It is truly a unique gift for a QB bar none and as such makes him potentially the most dangerous player on the field IMO.

No, I won't be jumping on the "Vick's all hype" bandwagon just yet. :nono:

[Jan Reimers]

Vick is certainly one thing: The greatest QB in the history of the NFL NEVER to have accomplished ANYTHING.

I'm so sick of hearing about the guy that I could do a Mr. Wison, i.e., RALPH. :fury:

[ajsdx]

Vick hasn't done too much in my opinion, since his first year as a starter is somewhat negated by last year non-performance. Still, don't forget that he beat the Packers and Brett Favre at home in the playoffs, No one else in history has done that (the Brett Favre part or the Packers part), and the Falcons that year were basically Michael Vick and the Defense, so give him some credit.

I like the comparison of Michael Vick and LeBron James. Both are incredible and visionary athletes that have yet to master the "skill" part of their games (i.e. accuracy & jump shooting). Both have the potential to be the best ever in their respective sports -- and even though it's still potential (and therefore hype), every once in a while they flash a one game line that reminds us why we think that. Both are the most untradeable players in their leagues.

[LarryBoy]

More then his play I wonder more if him staying healthy is going to be a problem, the more you rush the more times you got a big LB coming to knock yer head into the ground.

[tampabay25690]

Your right and he's sucked all preseason. I really don't know if that offense really suits Vick. Two years ago that offense was run for and all by Vick know it's geared more toward the whole offense. I think he can be good but not the greatest in the world like all the hype has made him out to be.

Spaz you just said it best, it is preaseason and that offense does not suit him at all....I just don't understand why you would change an offense that he was running just fine????

[Bill Brasky]

I think he can be good but not the greatest in the world like all the hype has made him out to be.

I've been saying that all along. Look at his numbers -- bottom tier of the league. He can't pass very well, which is why he relies on his running ability so much. I think he is one of the most overrated QB's in the league, but he is a far better athlete than most.

[Crisis]

All he does is win, doesn't matter how he does it.

[HenryRules]

Let's see ... the 3 years before he started for the Falcons, their record (and scoring offense ranking) were:
'99: 5-11 (23)
'00: 4-12 (27)
'01: 7-9 (23)

Then Vick starts in 2002. 9-6-1, a first round playoff victory, and a scoring offense ranking of 5.

Vick is injured in 2003. 5-11 and a scoring offense ranking of 20.

Yeah, the guy has accomplished nothing.

[elltrain22]

Defenses are blitzing a whole lot more on him, and it seems to be working so far. Blitz's up the middle seem like they really can get to him, and fluster him up.

[WagonCircler]

Being a great QB takes more than great athleticism. Otherwise Kordell Stewart would be a Hall of Famer and Jim Kelly would be a worthless never-has-been.

[The Spaz]

Being a great QB takes more than great athleticism. Otherwise Kordell Stewart would be a Hall of Famer and Jim Kelly would be a worthless never-has-been.

Exactly Vick needs to be a QB first.

[justasportsfan]

I watched part of that game. Greg Williams' D played like it wasn't preseason. I'm impressed.

[HenryRules]

Exactly Vick needs to be a QB first.

In his only full season he had a 2-1 TD/INT ratio and averaged about 7 yds/att.

What constitutes a QB? Steve Young often had 70+ carries in a season and he had a hell of a let more weapons to utilize beforehand than Vick does, was Young not a QB?

[The Spaz]

In his only full season he had a 2-1 TD/INT ratio and averaged about 7 yds/att.

What constitutes a QB? Steve Young often had 70+ carries in a season and he had a hell of a let more weapons to utilize beforehand than Vick does, was Young not a QB?

Please tell me your not comparing Vick to Young. This is what I'm talking about he has all this hype already. Young could run but he didn't think about that off the bat Vick does.

[Michael82]

Vick is certainly one thing: The greatest QB in the history of the NFL NEVER to have accomplished ANYTHING.

I'm so sick of hearing about the guy that I could do a Mr. Wison, i.e., RALPH. :fury:
I agree. Vick makes me :ill:

[HenryRules]

Please tell me your not comparing Vick to Young. This is what I'm talking about he has all this hype already. Young could run but he didn't think about that off the bat Vick does.

If comparing Young's and Vick's propensity for running the football is an example of hyping Vick, then no wonder you're upset about all the hype he's getting - damn, if people said that he throws with his right hand, just like Joe Montana did, you'd be ready to kill, wouldn't you?

Again, I ask you, what constitutes being a QB?

[Mr. Cynical]

In his only full season he had a 2-1 TD/INT ratio and averaged about 7 yds/att.

What constitutes a QB? Steve Young often had 70+ carries in a season and he had a hell of a let more weapons to utilize beforehand than Vick does, was Young not a QB?
Please tell me your not comparing Vick to Young. This is what I'm talking about he has all this hype already. Young could run but he didn't think about that off the bat Vick does.I agree with both of you. :D

Vick is most certainly a QB by any standard.

I think a more appropriate comparison to Vick is probably Randall Cunningham. Randall was their leading rusher from 1987-1990, so like Vick he had to carry the load. Young was on a well oiled team and had less of a burden. Now, I'm not ready to proclaim Vick ready for the HoF. WAY too early for that. But from what we've seen when healthy, he certainly has a good chance to.

[HenryRules]

I agree with both of you. :D

Vick is most certainly a QB by any standard.

I think a more appropriate comparison to Vick is probably Randall Cunningham. Randall was their leading rusher from 1987-1990, so like Vick he had to carry the load. Young was on a well oiled team and had less of a burden. Now, I'm not ready to proclaim Vick ready for the HoF. WAY too early for that. But from what we've seen when healthy, he certainly has a good chance to.


you guys both seem to be focusing on the latter portion of Young's career.

In his first years as a starter in San Fran and during his time in TBay, Young took off and ran just as early, if not earlier, than Vick does.

[The Spaz]

you guys both seem to be focusing on the latter portion of Young's career.

In his first years as a starter in San Fran and during his time in TBay, Young took off and ran just as early, if not earlier, than Vick does.

Like I said young was a pass first QB who if he had too he would run.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/YounSt00.htm

[HenryRules]

Like I said young was a pass first QB who if he had too he would run.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/YounSt00.htm

Are you ever going to say what constitutes a QB?

Now, regarding the stats you posted ... considering that we're discussing how early a passer takes off and runs, I don't see the relevance of the stats you posted at all. There's nothing in there that says how long Young waited to pass. These stats are absolutely irrelevant.

Consider the comparisons in weapons ... Rice, Taylor, and Jones vs. Finneran, Jefferson, and Crumpler. I think most people understand that the 49ers receivers were much more likely to get open and to get open earlier than the Falcons receivers, and as a result, either QB would have a lower rate of rushing attempts with the 49ers team. To think otherwise is just plain foolish.

Now, again, I will say this ... in the first half of his career, Young took off just as quickly, if not quicker than Vick did. Does this mean that his ratio of rushes/attempt is going to be as high as Vick's is currently? Of course not ... the rushes/pass attempt is not solely based on how quickly a passer leaves the pocket. A QB's willingness to pass is only one of a variety of factors that will influence that statistic

Before you use stats to back your argument, you should learn how to analyze them.

[The Spaz]

Are you ever going to say what constitutes a QB?

Now, regarding the stats you posted ... considering that we're discussing how early a passer takes off and runs, I don't see the relevance of the stats you posted at all. There's nothing in there that says how long Young waited to pass. These stats are absolutely irrelevant.

Consider the comparisons in weapons ... Rice, Taylor, and Jones vs. Finneran, Jefferson, and Crumpler. I think most people understand that the 49ers receivers were much more likely to get open and to get open earlier than the Falcons receivers, and as a result, either QB would have a lower rate of rushing attempts with the 49ers team. To think otherwise is just plain foolish.

Now, again, I will say this ... in the first half of his career, Young took off just as quickly, if not quicker than Vick did. Does this mean that his ratio of rushes/attempt is going to be as high as Vick's is currently? Of course not ... the rushes/pass attempt is not solely based on how quickly a passer leaves the pocket. A QB's willingness to pass is only one of a variety of factors that will influence that statistic

Before you use stats to back your argument, you should learn how to analyze them.


It's a lost cause you have different views than I do. Not only that but the only evidence you have is is you seem to recall Young taking off earlier more or the same as Vick and that doesn't constitute as concrete evidence in my book. The End. :funny:

[Mr. Cynical]

you guys both seem to be focusing on the latter portion of Young's career.

In his first years as a starter in San Fran and during his time in TBay, Young took off and ran just as early, if not earlier, than Vick does.I was trying to back you up. :idunno:

Anyway....although I see your point, I still think he is closer to Cunningham than Young (at this point). Both Young and Randall ran lot, but Randall didn't have the team that Young had, much like Vick didn't (or does) have the team in Atlanta.

[HenryRules]

It's a lost cause you have different views than I do. Not only that but the only evidence you have is is you seem to recall Young taking off earlier more or the same as Vick and that doesn't constitute as concrete evidence in my book. The End. :funny:


Let's see ... you were what, 15 or 16 when Young won his Super Bowl?

So you're going to comment on the guy's playing style when you probably don't even remember watching him play at that time?

I admit my opinion is not concrete evidence, but it's still a hell of a lot more than you're bringing to the table.

[HenryRules]

I was trying to back you up. :idunno:

Anyway....although I see your point, I still think he is closer to Cunningham than Young (at this point). Both Young and Randall ran lot, but Randall didn't have the team that Young had, much like Vick didn't (or does) have the team in Atlanta.

I know you were trying to back me up and I agree that Vick can be compared to Randall as well.

However, my main point was that Vick's propensity to run is similar to Young's willingness to leave the pocket earlier in his career. Agreeing with you completely on Randall would have looked like I was saying that Vick was not similar to Young.