What if TD had said to Parcells...

[finsrclowns]

We'll give you Travis Henry to move up to 23rd in this year's draft straight up?

I realize hindsight is 20/20, but if we had Justin Smiley at LG and still had next year's #1, which may well be the #1 overall pick the way things are going, wouldn't that have been a way better deal than we got? Henry's been a productive back but like Bledsoe he has flaws- fumbling, receiving, blitz pickup, goal line. I'd be pretty happy right now starting McGahee with Shaud Williams as the backup. I know we didn't really know about Mcgahee at draft time so it would have been a risky move on TD's part, but no riskier than drafting him in the first place. If Henry doesn't pick it up soon he won't generate even a late first in next year's draft.

[Ebenezer]

We'll give you Travis Henry to move up to 23rd in this year's draft straight up?

I realize hindsight is 20/20, but if we had Justin Smiley at LG and still had next year's #1, which may well be the #1 overall pick the way things are going, wouldn't that have been a way better deal than we got? Henry's been a productive back but like Bledsoe he has flaws- fumbling, receiving, blitz pickup, goal line. I'd be pretty happy right now starting McGahee with Shaud Williams as the backup. I know we didn't really know about Mcgahee at draft time so it would have been a risky move on TD's part, but no riskier than drafting him in the first place. If Henry doesn't pick it up soon he won't generate even a late first in next year's draft.
until McGahee blow out his knee...then you'd be screaming like everybody else for having traded away Henry when McGahee's knee had yet to be proven...:rolleyes:

[finsrclowns]

until McGahee blow out his knee...then you'd be screaming like everybody else for having traded away Henry when McGahee's knee had yet to be proven...:rolleyes:

True but my point is if you were thinking along those lines you never would have drafted him. When they drafted him his knee was hamburger and Eric Steinbach was sitting on the board. At least by draft day the guy had made great progress- I'd have to say relying on him for this year was a lot less risky than drafting him. My bottom line? If you have the guts to spend a first on him because you're confident he'll be a top 5 player, why be a wuss and wait and see? Now we're staring at GIVING a top 5 player to Dallas.

[R. Rich]

I don't do well with the "what ifs". One of the guys I really liked going into the draft was Shawn Andrews, who Philly took with their 1st round pick. I saw him in their preseason game against the Ravens and this kid just dominated up front! He looked like a sure-fire Pro Bowl candidate. Next thing I know, he gets injured and is out for the year.

[justasportsfan]

Parcells woudlv'e been able to make Henry rush for 150 ypg and we would've said TD made a mistake.

[Mr. Cynical]

At this point I'd make the trade to improve the oline next year. Although....given TD's track record with olineman players....maybe not.

[Typ0]

I don't understand all of this about the draft pick...we traded a pick and we got a QB. We needed a QB. We got one last year not this year. What's the problem?

[finsrclowns]

I don't understand all of this about the draft pick...we traded a pick and we got a QB. We needed a QB. We got one last year not this year. What's the problem?

Nothing as long as Losman is a young Brett Favre. He'd better be because he'll likely have cost a 2nd, 5th and top 5 pick next year. And also hope he doesn't need an OL to succeed because this bottom 5 group likely gets WORSE next year with the loss of Jennings.

Nothing against Losman but I would have kept the picks, drafted Smiley in the 2nd and taken Matt Schaub in the 3rd. Preseason is preseason but Schaub looked damn good in the game I watched and he had good #'s in college. I hope I'm wrong.

[Mr. Cynical]

Nothing as long as Losman is a young Brett Favre. He'd better be because he'll likely have cost a 2nd, 5th and top 5 pick next year. And also hope he doesn't need an OL to succeed because this bottom 5 group likely gets WORSE next year with the loss of Jennings.

Nothing against Losman but I would have kept the picks, drafted Smiley in the 2nd and taken Matt Schaub in the 3rd. Preseason is preseason but Schaub looked damn good in the game I watched and he had good #'s in college. I hope I'm wrong.
That's just it. People are forgetting he didn't just cost us our #1 next year. He also cost us our #2 and #5 this year. That #2 could have easily been our new center, Jake Grove, who is starting for TB right now. He was still on the board when Dallas used our pick at #43 spot. So while I'm fine with taking a chance on JP, people need to realize the stakes are higher than just that #1 pick next year.

[R. Rich]

That's just it. People are forgetting he didn't just cost us our #1 next year. He also cost us our #2 and #5 this year. That #2 could have easily been our new center, Jake Grove, who is starting for TB right now. He was still on the board when Dallas used our pick at #43 spot. So while I'm fine with taking a chance on JP, people need to realize the stakes are higher than just that #1 pick next year.

When was Grove traded to TB? I thought he was Adam Treu's backup in Oakland.

[Dozerdog]

If only that time-travel machine was working- - then even I could be a GM with a 16-0 team each year.....


Seriously- you going to give up a Pro-Bowl player who ran for 2600 yards and over 20 TDs in 2 seasons for the rights to draft an unproven OL man? And this is not Robert Gallery we are talking about- That's nuts.

[SABURZFAN]

I don't understand all of this about the draft pick...we traded a pick and we got a QB. We needed a QB. We got one last year not this year. What's the problem?


we've given up 2 first rounders for 2 QB's.the problem is that we don't have anybody to block for them.we've spent a 1st,2nd,and 4th rounder on WR's in the last couple years.one of those picks should have been an OL.

[SABURZFAN]

That's just it. People are forgetting he didn't just cost us our #1 next year. He also cost us our #2 and #5 this year. That #2 could have easily been our new center, Jake Grove, who is starting for TB right now. He was still on the board when Dallas used our pick at #43 spot. So while I'm fine with taking a chance on JP, people need to realize the stakes are higher than just that #1 pick next year.


i agree.grove would have been a mainstay for years.

[finsrclowns]

If only that time-travel machine was working- - then even I could be a GM with a 16-0 team each year.....


Seriously- you going to give up a Pro-Bowl player who ran for 2600 yards and over 20 TDs in 2 seasons for the rights to draft an unproven OL man? And this is not Robert Gallery we are talking about- That's nuts.

I don't have many ZB's but I'll bet you what I have that barring injury to either Then or WM, THen WILL be traded for a draft pick after the season- and that what they get for him will be a fraction of what they paid to move up and draft Losman. This team has too many holes to afford 2 feature backs long term.

[Marvelous]

we've given up 2 first rounders for 2 QB's.the problem is that we don't have anybody to block for them.we've spent a 1st,2nd,and 4th rounder on WR's in the last couple years.one of those picks should have been an OL.
The game i saw yesterday showed Drew holding the ball too long. The line gave him time at times but he failed to take advantage. Kinda like Rob, Drew Don't know what dto do when they send the house.. it's sad very unfortunate for us..

[Dozerdog]

we've given up 2 first rounders for 2 QB's.the problem is that we don't have anybody to block for them.we've spent a 1st,2nd,and 4th rounder on WR's in the last couple years.one of those picks should have been an OL.



Again with the hindsight-

When we didn't have a QB yet, and in the year you say we spent a #2 on WR, we spent a #1 on OL

in 2003 we drafted McGahee. Would you trade SF right now, MCGahee for Kwame Harris, OT? That's who they drafted 4-5 players later. Or Cincy for G- Eric Steinbach? Or how about Al Harris , Center from Wisconsin? All 3 were drafted withon 10-15 of us. We could have taken one of them ......

The problem in 2003 was that it was a weak draft. Dan Koppen from BC (NE) is the only impact player from that draft who went in the 6th (we took Sobieski) and the only reason he got his chance was because Woody got flattened on Sam Adams' Interception for a TD in the opener last year.


Sam Aiken was the second #4th round pick in 2003 behind McGee ( McGee was a great choice). If you want to split hairs, Angelo Crowell as the 3rd round pick wasn't that great- but again- Not a ton of OL prospects worth a lot were around that pick- let alone the entire draft.

[Mr. Cynical]

If only that time-travel machine was working- - then even I could be a GM with a 16-0 team each year.....


Seriously- you going to give up a Pro-Bowl player who ran for 2600 yards and over 20 TDs in 2 seasons for the rights to draft an unproven OL man? And this is not Robert Gallery we are talking about- That's nuts.You're missing my point. All I said was JP cost more than a #1 next year. I did not say it wasn't worth the risk. But you can't discount the fact that we could have gotten Grove with our #2 pick. All that means is that the JP trade was worth alot. I didn't say we shouldn't have done it.

As for the TH trade going forward, yes I would at this point trade him. The season is shot, face it. We are not going to carry both backs next year. We need serious help. Not having a #1 pick next year hurts. Getting it back would be worth trading TH now IMO.

[Dozerdog]

You're missing my point. All I said was JP cost more than a #1 next year. I did not say it wasn't worth the risk. But you can't discount the fact that we could have gotten Grove with our #2 pick. All that means is that the JP trade was worth alot. I didn't say we shouldn't have done it.

As for the TH trade going forward, yes I would at this point trade him. The season is shot, face it. We are not going to carry both backs next year. We need serious help. Not having a #1 pick next year hurts. Getting it back would be worth trading TH now IMO.

Well, don't complain about Bledsoe needing to be replaced and say that we should have drafted Jake Grove.

People see a Matt Schaub light up a preseason defense and everyone thinks we should have waited (and prayed he was still there) and grabbed him instead.

[Mr. Cynical]

Well, don't complain about Bledsoe needing to be replaced and say that we should have drafted Jake Grove.Where did I EVER say that????? :huh:

Again, I just wanted to make sure people understood the price we paid for JP. That's it. I never said it wasn't worth the risk.

[Jayhawk]

Parcells woudlv'e been able to make Henry rush for 150 ypg and we would've said TD made a mistake.
exactly, but we would find someone else to yell at

[Dozerdog]

Where did I EVER say that????? :huh:

Again, I just wanted to make sure people understood the price we paid for JP. That's it. I never said it wasn't worth the risk.


When did you ever want Bledsoe replaced? You say that all the time!


In this thread you are saying (unless I'm reading it wrong) that Instead of giving up a #1 and a #3 to switch spots with Dallas to get JP, we could have gotten a lineman (maybe - if he was still there)


You want Bledsoe replaced yet you don't want to pay the cost to do so. This is the point I continue to drive home. You can't just "Cut' a guy without ramifications down the line.


Sign a big name OL like Woody? Sure- but let's ignore how much it cost. No Extention for Schobel, not Troy Vincent if that happens

[Dozerdog]

I don't do well with the "what ifs". One of the guys I really liked going into the draft was Shawn Andrews, who Philly took with their 1st round pick. I saw him in their preseason game against the Ravens and this kid just dominated up front! He looked like a sure-fire Pro Bowl candidate. Next thing I know, he gets injured and is out for the year.


I was all over this guy pre-draft too. I saw him carted off last week and I was releived/saddened about it. Tough break.



(no bad pun intended)