Would You Favor the Bills Playing in the Batavia area? [Archive] - BillsZone.com

DIHARD2

11-11-2002, 12:00 AM

As long and they stay in the Buffalo area, I don't care. But my preference would be toward Batavia for economical reasoning, they would have access to Rochester and Syracuse to pull a larger fan base.

Buffalo would be a nightmare if they built stadium in downtown, I remember going to the rock and there wasn't half the traffic there is today. Buffalo's road system would be choked, and parking would be atrocious, also forget about tailgate parties they will become obsolete because of a lack of parking. Buffalo needs to bring in legalized gambling and turn it in to the gem of the North. That is the most logical industry that can put Buffalo back on the map.

There isn't any industry that Buffalo could really bring in. The U.S. is going to become the world's playground. The Third World countries are going to the manual labor that Buffalo was once known for.

GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...

Novacane

11-11-2002, 12:00 AM

Wys..........is there talk of a new stadium? Or are you just throwing out a hypothetical question? I wish we would have built a new stadium instead of dropping 100 million into the Ralph.

Judge

11-11-2002, 08:11 AM

There's no talk of a new stadium. The renovations should keep RWS a viable option for a while. I'm not sure of the amount invested, but I don't think the renovations cost $100 million. I'm not sure though.

HOWEVER, with all the palaces going up around the country, I think it'd be prudent for the WNY area and NYS to keep plans for a new stadium in mind for when it's necessary.

Batavia is a farther drive for me personally- 1 hour and 15 minutes vs. 45 minutes. If it means keeping the team in WNY and keeping their name the "BUFFALO Bills" I'd be in favor of it, though-

it's an easy drive right off the NYS Thruway, there's alot of space to build access roads and for parking. I wouldn't object at all to that thinking.

Ebenezer

11-11-2002, 08:18 AM

Batavia is too far...RWS is in fine condition and does not need to be replaced. If they ever do build a new one and they don't put it downtown how about in Newstead...still close enough to Erie and Niagara counties without shutting out the southern tier??

Buffarama

11-11-2002, 08:43 AM

Near Pembroke would be better for Buffalonians. I am a proponent of taking advantage of a large market. While the NFL evenly distributes its wealth and doesn't have the money problems baseball and hockey do, a broader base of support can only solidify the teams viability in the future, especially in terms of TV money.
It's too bad the Buffalo and Rochester area can't share the burden of a hockey team, cause that would probably work.
I still think this area can support major league baseball.

Earthquake Enyart

11-11-2002, 08:50 AM

The next stadium they'll be playing in will be the LA Coliseum.

lordofgun

11-11-2002, 09:00 AM

Elmira has a nice ring to it. :D

11-11-2002, 09:24 AM

Add Toronto as a third choice

11-11-2002, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by BledsoeTOreedfor6
Wys..........is there talk of a new stadium? Or are you just throwing out a hypothetical question? I wish we would have built a new stadium instead of dropping 100 million into the Ralph.

B2,

There's always talk about keeping the Bills in Buffalo. But I simply raised this as a hypothetical question to a point that Buffarama had made. I thought it would be both fun and interesting to toss around. Once we at BillsZone decide, we'll inform Ralph of our decision so that he can proceed w/ the plans! :D

There's always been talk of the team moving whether serious or not. Presumably the primary reason for that is due to a lack of ability to sell out the stadium and for selling "premium seating" which is becoming the hot thing in pro sports in general.

It then stands to reason that broadening the fan base by any means possible would aid in keeping the Bills around if the subject ever arose. According to Levy about a year or so ago, Wilson's oldest daughter would be the primary advocate of the team after his passing, and apparently she wants without question to keep the team in the UNY area. However, pressures from the league, other owners, financial pressure, can often override the interests of a particular individual no matter how influential.

Wilson's been one of the league's best and most influential owners. Does his daughter have the same savy and ability to influence as he does? Only time will tell what happens. I hope Ralph lives to be 120. He's a great owner and knows his priorities.

BillsNYC

11-11-2002, 11:48 AM

orchard park is the greatest suburb of buffalo....keep the stadium there!

BFBills

11-11-2002, 12:10 PM

The Stadium should be in Down Town Buffalo! I would definatly help the economy. Tear down the Aud and put it there!

I would like to see open ends to the lake so it would be the coldest place in the world.
Grass.
No dome
Under ground parking
Subway acsessable
While revitilizing down town!

BFBills

11-11-2002, 12:11 PM

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Albion annyone?

BillsNYC

11-11-2002, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by BFBills
The Stadium should be in Down Town Buffalo! I would definatly help the economy. Tear down the Aud and put it there!

I would like to see open ends to the lake so it would be the coldest place in the world.
Grass.
No dome
Under ground parking
Subway acsessable
While revitilizing down town!

if they do that they should then create public trnsportation 24/7 from the surrounding suburbs and make the stadium buffalo's hub!

BFBills

11-11-2002, 12:23 PM

TigerJ

11-11-2002, 12:31 PM

How about moving further west to enable the Bills to market tickets to Erie, PA. I'm being facetious of course, but at the present time any move east makes the Bills less accessible to me. Pembroke wouldn't be too bad, I guess. If I were still in Indian Falls and the Bills moved to Pembroke, I would be in football heaven.

casdhf

11-11-2002, 12:47 PM

Batavia, NY isn't a good place for anything, let alone a football stadium.

ArcticWildMan

11-11-2002, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by casdhf
Batavia, NY isn't a good place for anything, let alone a football stadium.

LOL!!!! I have to agree with Cas! WTF is in Batavia? :scratch:

casdhf

11-11-2002, 12:55 PM

That place is in worse shape than Buffalo. I believe Ames is still in business there.

doug45

11-11-2002, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by BledsoeTOreedfor6
And if we ever do build a new stadium I want to see it downtown Buffalo. They are the BUFFALO bills!

If they were downtown very few people would go. I do not go to Sabers games anymore for that reason. NO Parking and You have to walk for miles in an area that is not all that safe in the middle of the night.

I do like your avitar.

doug45

11-11-2002, 01:04 PM

I can tell you this if the Red Wings would have put the field out in Avon like they were talking they would have sold out every game. I would have got season tickets. There would have been a lot of parking and it was on 390, so it was 15 minutes from the city.

11-11-2002, 01:12 PM

Possibly. But I think they'd have lost a chunk from Rochester. The downtown area is shaping up very nicely and is very family oriented.

11-11-2002, 01:13 PM

AAA Baseball is different that the NFL in that regard.

BillsNYC

11-11-2002, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by casdhf
That place is in worse shape than Buffalo. I believe Ames is still in business there.

no no no...thats a Gold Circle...

fabolouspaul

11-11-2002, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
The next stadium they'll be playing in will be the LA Coliseum.

Even though i love here in so cal. Almost everyone down here is a raider fan and i like the fact that im one of the few die hard bills fans around here.

11-11-2002, 08:49 PM

"...Gold Circle..."

LMAO!!!

TigerJ

11-11-2002, 08:55 PM

There would be all kinds of land available at either the Pembroke or Batavia exits of the Thruway. Access would be very easy. Wys point in raising the issue has nothing to do with what there might be in Batavia for entertainment. If people want to stop at a bar on the way home, they can do it in Buffalo or Rochester. I shopped in that Batavia Ames store back when I lived in Indian Falls, There is however a big Walmart now, not to mention a BJ's wholesale store. With a nearby Walmart and a KMart, I have a hard time believing the Ames store survived until the whole corporation went under. I've also heard advertized on Buffalo radio (WGR) the Center Street Smokehouse, a sports bar and restaurant serving authentic barbeque from various places across the south. I love barbeque. At Pembroke there is Six Flags Darien Lake, but that's shut down for most of the Bills season.

Typ0

11-11-2002, 09:06 PM

I have been getting a real blast out of this thread. If the Bills leave the greater Buffalo area they aren't going to Darien Lake...LOL

11-11-2002, 09:16 PM

"Wys point in raising the issue has nothing to do with what there might be in Batavia for entertainment."

LOL Indeed. Besides, the game is the entertainment.

As well, what are we comparing this to? The cultural and entertainment Mecca that OP is now? LOL

DIHARD2

11-11-2002, 09:52 PM

I lived in the Baltimore, D.C. and Virginia area building high-rises. If you want to see the ideal use of a waterfront you need to go to the inner Harbor in Baltimore. That was a 30 year project to make that area beautiful. That would be an ideal format for Buffalo Harbor area, but also incorporating the Georgetown VA area where it's right on the waterfront and it's all medium rise condos. Along with gambling in the Buffalo area it all would work.

The stadium being built in the heart of Buffalo, it's a bad idea, parking is the big problem and that area would only be used on average approximately six months out of the year and Buffalo needs something all year-round.

Building underground parking and parking garages for the stadium, would eliminate any chance of tailgate parties as we know and want. You cannot build a fire in a structure like that especially with all the gasoline. You also have the building codes today, you have to have sprinkler systems in any parking graduate even though they are dry discharge, or discharging chemical.

Another thing Batavia area has to offer, if I'm not mistaken there is also a railroad track that runs All the way to New York City, that can also service as a subway type shuttle to the game, from both directions Syracuse Rochester and Buffalo. I know Baltimore has that type of set up for the baseball stadium, I had left before the football stadium was built.

Another idea for getting money to do this, they, Baltimore, had its own lottery scratch off ticket which was two dollars, that would pay you a $1000 a week for life, they built both stadiums and maintain them with that lottery. It's just an idea I don't know how the New York lottery laws are written but they should look at that as a way to build these amenities. I know the baseball stadium costs $300 mil and not one cent was paid for out of the taxpayer's pocket. Although the lottery is somewhat of a tax it's self, it's just considered as a tax you can choose to pay or not by not playing or by playing.

GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...

Judge

11-12-2002, 08:39 AM

Bottom line is that Batavia is a great idea as a future option to consider.

I don't understand Typo's dismissive answer at all.

Great location right in between the two major markets that make the Bills a regional franchise, large amount of land, easy transportation access.

The only proviso: that the team remain named the "BUFFALO Bills"- no BS name to encompass all of upstate or anything. Metro Buffalo is still larger than metro Rochacha.

That localtion is a great idea if it means keeping the team in WNY vs. losing them.

casdhf

11-12-2002, 08:43 AM

Have you been to Batavia?

11-12-2002, 08:45 AM

"I don't understand Typo's dismissive answer at all."

Dismissive answer? What do you mean? I thought everyone understood each other perfectly clearly on the boards and there were never any miscommunications or other anomalies! :D

LOL

Yeah, of course it would still be the Buffalo Bills. Wouldn't make sense to change it, even if the team did move to Rochester. Buffalo Bills has more meaning to it than simple geography as well.

DH,

Where did you live in Baltimore/N.VA?

11-12-2002, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by casdhf
Have you been to Batavia?

It's beautiful!!!

All the things to do there at 3 in the morning. I heard the city never shuts down...

:biggrin:

Judge

11-12-2002, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by casdhf
Have you been to Batavia?

Yes I have. Many times. I'm very familiar with the area.

That's why I know it's a great idea for a new location if the Bills ever need a new stadium built.

EricStratton

11-12-2002, 10:04 AM

Lets not turn this into a bash Batavia thread please. I was born and raised there and would love it if you all would come off the ivory towers you all live in and cut the city some slack.

The big advantage to the batavia/Pembroke area is access to all of WNY. It's a shorter drive time wise from Niagra Falls/Canada/Rochester/Syracuse/Elmira etc than OP is now. There is plenty of land available at a reasonable dollar (this will be a taxpayer funded stadium if built - they all are) and the transport connections to the Thruway etc are easy to do. It would also give an option to fans who fly in for weekends to fly to Rochester as well as Buffalo.

Lori

11-12-2002, 02:18 PM

Southern Tier? What's your definition of the Southern Tier? Driving to Batavia instead of OP would suck swamp water, as far as I'm concerned.

But then, Rochester DOES probably have more season ticket holders than McKean County, PA ........

THATHURMANATOR

11-12-2002, 03:35 PM

If they were to build a new stadium I would hope they would locate it downtown Buffalo.

THATHURMANATOR

11-12-2002, 03:38 PM

Nothing against batavia though I just think it would be stupid to put the a stadium there. We don't have a big problem selling out as long as we have a somewhat competitive team. Putting a stadium downtown could be part of a revitilazion of the Downtown area.

colin

11-12-2002, 04:07 PM

I want the Ralph to be the oldest and most feared staduim in use in the NFL. End of discussion.

11-13-2002, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by EricStratton
Lets not turn this into a bash Batavia thread please. I was born and raised there and would love it if you all would come off the ivory towers you all live in and cut the city some slack.

The big advantage to the batavia/Pembroke area is access to all of WNY. It's a shorter drive time wise from Niagra Falls/Canada/Rochester/Syracuse/Elmira etc than OP is now. There is plenty of land available at a reasonable dollar (this will be a taxpayer funded stadium if built - they all are) and the transport connections to the Thruway etc are easy to do. It would also give an option to fans who fly in for weekends to fly to Rochester as well as Buffalo.

Very nice summarization ES!

BTW, I wasn't trying to put down Batavia. Just havin' some fun on the tails of some other comments. I love UNY, particularly the smaller towns. It's much better than here in N.VA/DC area IMO. There's lots to do here, but you can only do so much and the traffic is horrendous. Not kidding when I say that 10 p.m. traffic here is like rush hour in UNY.

As to having a stadium in Buffalo, the entire point of moving it between Roch and Buff is to attract more regular season ticket holders and to make individual tickets sell better too. If the Bills leave WNY it'll be b/c they can't sell out the luxury boxes. Putting the stadium in downtown Buffalo doesn't help that as appealing at it sounds. Also, can you imagine the lake effect snow? It would seem to me that the idea would be to put it where there's less snow.

Some good points have been made in favor ot it in the Batavia/Pembroke area:

Cheap land
Plenty of parking
train access from points east
Right off the NYST
Not much further drive for most Buffalonians
Shorter for most others or the same anyway

Not to mention that coming from Buffalo there are several route choices. Same from Roch or southern tier.

That's not to say that a downtown Buffalo location would be horrible. I think a nice stadium on the water front, that apparently the Buffalo and NC politicians prefer to sit empty cluttered w/ reminders of the industry of the mid-20th century, would be nice. But I don't think it would address the reasons as to why the Bills might move to begin with.

Most luxury seating, at least with most teams, is corporate sponsored. Rochester has some big corporate interests. Putting the Bills closer to Roch would make the team more attractive to Rochestarians in terms of buying season seating of one form or another. Right now it's about an hour and 20 minutes or so, more if you don't drive fast, to get to RWS. A Batavia/Pembroke location would cut that in half while remaining only 20 minutes from the Exit 50 toll plaza.

BillsNYC

11-13-2002, 10:51 AM

EricStratton

11-13-2002, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by BillsNYC

and then you moved to JERSEY??????????:lolcry:

Mans got to work doesn't he?

BillsNYC

11-13-2002, 11:25 AM

did you get my email....you owe me a question!! :D

EricStratton

11-13-2002, 11:36 AM

Yes and I know.

I'll give you one today.

BillsNYC

11-13-2002, 12:31 PM

i still think if not orchard park...downtown buffalo...and center the rebuilding of the city around it...

EricStratton

11-13-2002, 12:38 PM

The one problem with building a downtown around a football only stadium is it's only 10 NFL games and maybe 20 - 30 other events a year and it's dark during the week.

Combine that with inflated building costs in a downtown area (land, transport, etc) and it isn't cost effective for that many dates.

Show he an area that built a football stadium downtown in the past 15-20 years that is truely successful or at least met the expectations when it was built.

Earthquake Enyart

11-13-2002, 01:31 PM

One is being built right now, the all new Soldier Field.

Seattle, Cincinnati, and Houston have also all built stadiums near their downtowns.

EricStratton

11-13-2002, 01:38 PM

I'm not talking just built, I'm talking successful.

Seattle is part of a baseball/football complex, same as Cincy. Houston is to new to judge. Chicago is the same building and there is a big difference between Chicago and Buffalo.

I'm not saying don't explore a football stadium in downtown, I just don't think something like that would work for a team that MUST draw from such a large regional area to survive.

11-13-2002, 01:46 PM

Those places are all thriving downtowns w/ something else to offer. Buffalo's isn't like those.

Baltimore same thing as DH pointed out. I think it was him. But the Inner Harbor area is really nice and has a lot of family things to do. I don't go to DT Buffalo that often, but when I'm there it doesn't seem to compare to Seattle, Baltimore, Chicago, NY, or several other places.

11-13-2002, 01:48 PM

Besides, again, the sole point for relocating the stadium would be to draw more luxury seat commitments. Moving to DT Buffalo doesn't upgrade that I would think. OP is close enough for anyone in Buffalo who is interested to purchase the seats.

Moving eastward would draw some Rochester interest and perhaps even some Syracuse. Can you imagine an PS game in Syracuse? The Carrier Dome. That would be a good marketing idea. But only if going to games for Syracuse people was realistic.

Typ0

11-13-2002, 01:52 PM

You guys forgot about the one major downtown success story that is most important. Cleveland. That project turned the city around.

EricStratton

11-13-2002, 01:59 PM

The difference Typo is Cleveland also has jacobs Field and that was there first. Buffalo doesn't have an 81 game 40,000 seat baseball stadium to settle a new football park near.

My point with a downtown stadium is football can't be the only game in town.

Cleveland, Baltimore, Cincy, Pittsburg, Seattle all have MLBaseball parks in the same area. Football won't help revitalize a downtown area if the park is dark 320 - 340 days a year.

InTheBox

11-13-2002, 02:05 PM

Were the Hell is Batavia?:confused:

Typ0

11-13-2002, 02:21 PM

What are the Bisons? Don't they play a bunch of home games? What about the Sabres? Don't they play a bunch of home games?

EricStratton

11-13-2002, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by InTheBox
Were the Hell is Batavia?:confused:

Exit 48 on the Thruway. About halfway between Buffalo and Rochester

EricStratton

11-13-2002, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by Typ0
What are the Bisons? Don't they play a bunch of home games? What about the Sabres? Don't they play a bunch of home games?

Neither has been the focal point to revitalize the area and both draw between 10 and 20,000 not the 35,000 - 45,000 a major league park does.

Typ0

11-13-2002, 03:04 PM

Neither has been the focal point to revitalize the area and both draw between 10 and 20,000 not the 35,000 - 45,000 a major league park does.

Not sure what you are saying. Those teams and stadiums are opportunities. Are you saying they don't count because they don't get the draw of a major league park (or a good hockey team)?

I have to turn the tide on your statement and point out that there is no focal point to revitalize the area. There is no plan. There is some talk. Some moron politicians that can't get anything done and excercise terrible judgement. Some terrible business people who screw over the working folk. But what is the focal point to revitalize the area? What is the plan? Why aren't the baseball and hockey teams integrated with that plan? The baseball stadium is beautiful. Buffalo is not Cleveland. You are comparing apples to oranges. I am saying let's look at how an orange grove was turned into a flourishing orange juice business and take the apples and make some good down home apple pie.

RedEyE

11-13-2002, 04:24 PM

Downtown!

casdhf

11-13-2002, 04:41 PM

Batavia Muckdogs draw like 400 people a night.

11-13-2002, 09:30 PM

What ES is sayin' here is that all those other areas in those cities have other stuff besides sports going on. People don't go from a football game into a baseball game into a hockey game. If you go downtown for a football game, you don't care if there's another stadium there. You want some stuff to do otherwise.

Cleveland has that area, I forget what they call it, but it's a nightlife spot, has some stores, etc. Like the Inner Harbor in Baltimore. Even when there is no game going on the place is packed when the weather's nice. Other NFL cities too.

IDK, but is Buffalo like that? Is it a hub for "stuff" going on all the time? If so, then perhaps it would be a good location from that perspective. But again, the idea is to get some other WNY support for those stupid luxury boxes that we almost didn't sell out of. It's those and the commitments to them that matter these days. Not sellouts necessarily.

There's no question that moving further east by a tad would add in that department. How much would remain to be seen. But it may very well come down to such an option. I suppose the poll should have been would you favor moving the team to Batavia or thereabouts as opposed to seeing the team move out of the area altogether.

But not simply for the sake of moving it and making getting there a bit easier for many.

Typ0

11-13-2002, 09:43 PM

Those area's having something going on is a function of a well executed urban development plan. Here in buffalo we have a bunch of politicians who are failing to get the job done. They are terrible business people.

Those other cities did not look at things and say "we have other things going on, lets build a stadium." I appreciate what you guys are saying, but I don't think the real world works that way. The "things going on" and the stadiums are a part of an overall plan that was executed well one thing didn't grow from another. Plus Buffalo could have things going on but the developers and politicians have blown one thing after another. What good is a subway that goes in a straight line from downtown to South Campus? What good is it ripping down the center of main street downtown? What good is a subway where people are on the honor system to pay for a ticket? What about the nice brewhouse that was downtown who took the city for a bundle?

The bottom line is downtown buffalo can be built up and have things happening as you say. But it's going to take some strong leadership and business savy to get it done. If you just stand there and analyze the problem saying "there is nothing happening down there" and then give up on it you certainly aren't the kind of leadership that can tackle a project like this. Downtown Cleveland was a desolate, impoverished wasteland a dozen years ago.

casdhf

11-13-2002, 09:46 PM

Build the stadium right next to the casino.

The Natrix

11-13-2002, 10:07 PM

Build the Stadium in Batavia and change the name to the New York Bills

change the jets and giants to New Jersey jets and giants

11-13-2002, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by Typ0
Those area's having something going on is a function of a well executed urban development plan. Here in buffalo we have a bunch of politicians who are failing to get the job done. They are terrible business people.

Those other cities did not look at things and say "we have other things going on, lets build a stadium." I appreciate what you guys are saying, but I don't think the real world works that way. The "things going on" and the stadiums are a part of an overall plan that was executed well one thing didn't grow from another. Plus Buffalo could have things going on but the developers and politicians have blown one thing after another. What good is a subway that goes in a straight line from downtown to South Campus? What good is it ripping down the center of main street downtown? What good is a subway where people are on the honor system to pay for a ticket? What about the nice brewhouse that was downtown who took the city for a bundle?

The bottom line is downtown buffalo can be built up and have things happening as you say. But it's going to take some strong leadership and business savy to get it done. If you just stand there and analyze the problem saying "there is nothing happening down there" and then give up on it you certainly aren't the kind of leadership that can tackle a project like this. Downtown Cleveland was a desolate, impoverished wasteland a dozen years ago.

I don't think anyone is gonna argue those points w/ you. But where is this plan for the Waterfront area. As you say, they don't say "we have other things going on, lets build a stadium." But at the same time, they don't simply say, hey, let's build a stadium in case we decide at some point in the future to do something else down by the waterfront.

As you said, it's got to be part of a plan. You live in Buffalo. How long has that area been idle? Has there been a viable plan? Is there one on the table now?

Or is there nothing but incompetence and infighting amongst the varying politicians involved? No plan? Wasted space for decades while all sorts of good options get bypassed and businesses move elsewhere to do something else?

It ain't gonna happen based on what I've heard from Buffalonians. That's a pretty pervasive notion. It's gotta be coming from somewhere.

But again, the issue is being missed. Which area is "nicer" is not consequential. The question is where will it sell more luxury boxes and premium seating?

The entire premise is to draw in fan support from other regions of the country. Why do you think they moved the TC to Rochester? For the same reason. They could have put in in Brockport. Or Geneseo. Or UB. They chose Rochester in a clear attempt to draw in some additional fan support from there. I think it worked.

Putting the stadium further east would help even more since more people would have a shorter trip to get to the game and others from points east could even take the train.

The_Philster

11-14-2002, 05:00 AM

We HAD a plan for the waterfront.....but that was something Adelphia was going to do....we all know how that turned out though. :(

EricStratton

11-14-2002, 06:57 AM

To follow up on Wys point I’ll say this. The Bills (along with many other NFL teams) now market themselves as a regional team. That’s why the training camp move, the player bookings in Syracuse, Albany etc and the train packages from Albany across the state. They must, due to the relative small size of Buffalo and the economics of the area, draw fans and revenue from the entire WNY area as well as Central NY, Canada, the Northern tier and beyond. That revenue comes in the form of ad space, luxury boxes and corporate promotions.

Having a downtown stadium would be great for Buffalo. It may be the anchor to rebuild a thriving downtown, something I would love to see. It may not help the overall health of the franchise. Businesses from Rochester, Syracuse, Albany, Binghamton etc wouldn’t have any extra incentive to invest in the team and that is what will not only keep the team in WNY but also infuse cash to pay necessary signing bonuses and improve team facilities and perks that make today’s NFL teams attractive to free-agents.

Once again, I’m not advocating a move by the team, just laying out an option that I think would be a benefit to the Buffalo Bills.

Earthquake Enyart

11-14-2002, 07:19 AM

Put the new stadium at the old Bethlehem Steel site. Or on the other side of Rt. 5 where the old Father Baker Bridge was where Shenango used to be.

Batavia is a cow town. Might as well put the stadium in Elmira or Ebenezer.

Typ0

11-14-2002, 08:59 AM

OK, so somehow we have determined the only important factor in determining where to put a stadium is the ability to sell luxury boxes. How is it that these luxury boxes will be sold in Batavia again? The luxury boxes attraction for a company is to wine and dine people, show them a good time, perhaps close a sale or give away a benefit. So I ask you, which sounds better when trying to close a multi-million dollar contract:

"why don't you come up to Buffalo this weekend? They have a lot going on up there and we'll take in a Bills game and go to the Casino."

Or

"Why don't you come up to Batavia this weekend? It's a real desolate wasteland there...but there was room for a stadium and it's easily accessible from the thruway."

One of the most densly populated areas in the northern hemisphere is between Buffalo and Toronto. You want to move the stadium away from that area to get near Syracuse? This is the most assinine thread I have ever read...put the stadium in Batavia...where do you come up with this stuff? Why don't you come up with something to address the actual problem instead of sidestepping around it. The real problems downtown started when the buffalo news ***** pushed the stadium from downtown to Orchard Park because she was worried about her getting home late on Monday's due to monday night game traffic. The people running this city are idiots. The voting population here are idiots for not taking control of the situation. Orchard Park doesn't even want the stadium there. Move the stadium to Batavia? ROFLMAO

EricStratton

11-14-2002, 09:19 AM

Typo, you are missing the point. Are Buffalo’s politicians screwed up, I’ll take your word and say yes. I’m not trying to fix that and a stadium downtown won’t either. That’s not the issue.

The issue is IF a new stadium was to be built would it be better in an area accessable to the largest amount of the fan base, the regional fan base. Whether it’s in OP, between Buffalo and Canada, east of the city or whatever that’s what would make the most sense.

As far as skyboxes they are vital to a team in the NFL today. That money belongs to the team and isn’t shared with other clubs. It’s cash in hand to pay for bonuses, better practice facilities, better pre-game hotels etc. All the crap players look at when making a FA choice.

Like I said, I’m just in this thread to toss out options. I really don’t care if where they play as long as they are successful enough to stay in WNY and compete

Typ0

11-14-2002, 09:39 AM

I'm not missing the point at all. Batavia is not closer to the regional fan base as I have clearly stated...it it only closer to Rochester and Syracuse. There is a denser population in the Hamilton Ontario area than there is in Rochester and Syracuse combined.

Second, the selling of luxury boxes is based on, hmmm, what might it be....luxury! That luxorious Batavia atmosphere is a real attraction let me tell you. Sorry, Eric, but there is a win-win here and it involves turning over our beauracracy and has nothing to do with Batavia.

EricStratton

11-14-2002, 09:45 AM

What you seem to want is to solve all the ills of Buffalo politics with the Buffalo Bills. Try and separate the two issues.

As far as selling luxury it's the game that matters. Building in downtown and not cleaning up the mess of the area will sure be a selling point. Lets drive your limo throught the undeveloped waterfront, the closes steel mills and maybe a drive past LoveCanal. That will sure draw in the money.

Like it or not the business in Rochester and beyond is where the money is now. That is who the Bills want to draw in. Why do you thing TC in now at SJF.

lordofgun

11-14-2002, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
Might as well put the stadium in Elmira

I totally agree.

Typ0

11-14-2002, 10:01 AM

What you seem to want is to solve all the ills of Buffalo politics with the Buffalo Bills. Try and separate the two issues.

Separating the two issues is a big mistake. The Bills are an opportunity for the city of Buffalo. The waterfront project and the Bills would share a lot of synergies through integration. Those synergies are not there with the Batavia municipality. There's a lot more to it than the game itself.

11-14-2002, 10:48 AM

Typ0,

"I'm not missing the point at all. Batavia is not closer to the regional fan base as I have clearly stated...it it only closer to Rochester and Syracuse. There is a denser population in the Hamilton Ontario area than there is in Rochester and Syracuse combined.

Second, the selling of luxury boxes is based on, hmmm, what might it be....luxury! That luxorious Batavia atmosphere is a real attraction let me tell you."

Do you think there's a lot going on in Foxboro? Or in Milwaukee or G.B.? Or out in Maryland where Redskins stadium is? Miami's a dump outside the stadium come to find out this last game. DT Philly? E. Rutherford is a swamp.

People who buy boxes, just like us, go to games and it's an all day event. You don't arrive at 1 pm and promptly leave at 4 pm. Especially if you own a box. I've been to them down here in this area for several sports. People come early, have dinner or brunch, sit an chat. Enjoy the game and often even hang a little after the game. They, at least the ones that I know who own the boxes, don't rush out into the area to see what else is going on.

These aren't college party dudes buying the boxes. They are corporate interests. Why do they buy them? For their clients. Not necessarily for themselves, at least not all the time. Most people don't run out into the streets after a long day of football viewing. They go catch the 4 pm games. You can do that in your box.

This whole notion that 80K fans are going to run out into the streets of Buffalo to patronize the local businesses isn't accurate. Some might. I know I'm headin' elsewhere. Most people who TG are too pooped to do much else anyway. If you TG properly it's a long day. OP doesn't have an entire host of things to do. There's hardly any businesses near there at all relatively speaking. The highways outta RWS are packed w/ cars all headin' quite a bit away from there.

The appeal has nothing to do w/ getting closer to the "heart" of the Bills fan base. In fact, that heart is Buffalo obviously. But there are other fans that would be attracted by moving closer. If the Canadians are such a huge contingent, then how many of them have purchase boxes or seasons?

Besides, relocating to the Batavia area wouldn't make the drive any further for Canadian fans coming from north of Buffalo. In fact, it would probably make it easier. It's just as far nearly from exit 50 to OP or Batavia which is only what, 22 miles in a 65 zone? That's about 20 minutes. You're lookin' at at least 15 to OP from there where you go right past.

Meanwhile, no true Bills fan in the Buffalo area would let something like that impact their decision to attend games or buy boxes. At the same time, I guarantee you that more Rochestarians would buy tix and even some Syracusians. ?? :D

Unfortunately, what it takes to keep a team in an area these days doesn't always make the most sense. It's a strange game in the NFL for that type of stuff.

I can tell you this though, if you were to move the stadium anywhere further north into Canada or near GI, then you would definitely lose interest from points east. I'd say for most people, an hour or a little bit more than that is somewhat acceptible. But once you get into the 1 1/2 + timeframe, you're talkin' a whole new thing.

Typ0

11-14-2002, 11:13 AM

WYS:

I did speak to the types of people who were buying the luxury boxes and what the reasons were. I think I understand but thanks for the refresher.

They not only go to the games for a days events, but they partake in what is available to them that will heighten the value they get back from their day. Things like decent hotels and perhaps a casino.

I never said anything about having a notion that 80K fans are going to rush out on the streets and spend a lot of dollars. But if you think there will not be an increase you are sadly mistaken. What about the tax dollars? What about the hotels?

I didn't say move the stadium any further north than downtown. That is closer to all the fans. I can get to Orchard Park from GI in thirty minutes. It takes over 45 to get to Batavia.

Finally, and most importantly, this goes a lot deeper than economic impact or convenience. Buffalo desparately needs some marketing clout, something the Sabres are not providing enough of. Putting the Bills downtown would add significant value in this area. For this reason, if the Bills are going to move (and not move to another market) I assert the only place they should move is into Buffalo--at least if the city of Buffalo cares about having a team. Really I think they should stay right where they are...but to suggest Batavia is ludicrous.

Judge

11-14-2002, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Typ0,

Besides, relocating to the Batavia area wouldn't make the drive any further for Canadian fans coming from north of Buffalo. In fact, it would probably make it easier. It's just as far nearly from exit 50 to OP or Batavia which is only what, 22 miles in a 65 zone? That's about 20 minutes. You're lookin' at at least 15 to OP from there where you go right past.
...

I can tell you this though, if you were to move the stadium anywhere further north into Canada or near GI, then you would definitely lose interest from points east. I'd say for most people, an hour or a little bit more than that is somewhat acceptible. But once you get into the 1 1/2 + timeframe, you're talkin' a whole new thing.

Bottom line is that anything is better than OP- that's not a convenient site for anyone, is it?. It's what we've got, so we're stuck with it, but-

If a new stadium is built, near GI would be fine and wouldn't harm any people from the East- that'd be easier and shorter to get to than OP. I disagree with Wys on this point.

Batavia is a piece of cake for Canadians to get to- straight thruway driving once over the international bridges. So Typo's wrong that canadians would be put off in my opinion.

Typ0

11-14-2002, 11:25 AM

I didn't say they would be put off. I merely pointed out the fact that Batavia is farther than Orchard Park. I did not make any assertions about peoples utility on distance travelled. I only said the arguement Batavia was more convenient is flawed. In fact, downtown buffalo is quite a bit more convenient from the north than OP or Batavia.

Just think, we could see a football game...do some partying and walk across the street and see a hockey game.

The_Philster

11-14-2002, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by lordofgun

I totally agree.

You would ;)
:lol:

BFBills

11-14-2002, 04:36 PM

i know that the city doesn't have this money butttttttttttt.
Tear down the aud, dunn tire park and any thing west of that (beside the tower,more like civic buildings and parking lots)
Ask a MLB and/or a NBA team to come. If one comes than build a stadium for that. Then build a football stadium with 80,000 plus seets and alot o' suits. then you have the rest of the area for parking and bars and hotels an resteraunts. Also build a stadium next to the MLB or NBA stadium for the Bisons. Then you have it all set up for the water front to shape up. Build civic centre(s) and build a BIG fire and police station so nothing will get out of control. make the subway so it is all under ground. We have the sky way to. Off the water front we could have a speicial port for the sport teams. As for the fans else where. Make a train going to it and make a ticket a long with it.

I have said too much.
I will go now.
Bye.

DIHARD2

11-14-2002, 06:37 PM

Typ0, I can understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately it would be a bad idea to try to rebuild the waterfront on the shoulders of the team. If the waterfront failed so would the team in time. I'm not saying the team would fail in winning as much as the possible of it moving to another state.

The cities that have stadiums with in it, were already revitalizing in other ways. If the Bills were to move back into the city limits other things would have had been already started or must be started right away, especially legalizing gambling. The stadium should only be a complement to what has already been accomplished.

I know the stadiums in Baltimore came after revitalizing the Inner Harbor , and the Inner Harbor was done by businessmen not by the City Council or politicians.

From reading alot of your comments you're younger than I, and I don't think you had a chance to go to the rock when it was there a.k.a. (War Memorial). I remember the early '60s going to the games and finding our tires were slash when we came out .

The biggest reason the stadium was moved away from Buffalo was because at that time a ran down areas were usually the norm around a stadium. The biggest reason for that was the noise and traffic. People, who had money would moved to the outskirts, and a fire sales was created on the property's they left behind.

The revitalization of the waterfront area, should have already been in the process. Unfortunately the politicians of Buffalo have accepted and ran the city as a status quo! Also the voters have accepted the status quo for too long.

Right now Buffalo has a ten-year time line I believe before talk of a new stadium starts. So now if the politicians want to bring the team back into the city limits, they need realize that the best thing for Buffalo in today's world, would be to start billing the waterfront as a resort area.

This way they can also turned the stadium into a convention center type set up, by putting a dome over it. This way it would be used year-round not only as a football stadium but as a way to draw conventions. I also don't think an 80,000 seat baseball stadium would make it in Buffalo, they cannot support a semi pro team there as it is.

Otherwise the most logical direction for the stadium to go would be towards Batavia, Lancaster. At one time Lancaster was going to be a home of the Bills, until the politicians got into it, and Ralph did not want to rent a stadium from a private owner.

GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...

Typ0

11-14-2002, 07:32 PM

Can you please find where I said to build the stadium downtown and worry about the rest later? Sorry man, but you really didn't pay any attention to what I was saying or I have completely failed to articulate myself. My position was to create a project to bring back the waterfront and the stadium could come to fruition within that project. Do you really think it would start to go up tomorrow? Ten years is nothing with this type of project. I'm not going to reread what I wrote and I am not going to write it again. Thanks for the info about the 60s. Do you really think we should make decisions about things today based on the prevailing cultural atmosphere in the 60s?

Typ0

11-14-2002, 07:33 PM

Oh by the way...what's it like to be old? j/k

:banme:

DIHARD2

11-14-2002, 09:18 PM

The 60's comment, was toward whoever made the comment about the lady and the Buffalo News and not wanting to drive home in rush hour, on Monday night. That wasn't the reason back then for the Ralph to be built outside of Buffalo.

Back then, the people of Buffalo didn't want another stadium because of the blight it created. Then housing around the stadium wasn't that desirable of a piece of properly, because it was only used a half a year, and it was dead the rest of the time. Plus the taxes in those areas have a habit of rising in order to pay for the maintenance of the streets and any of the other amenities. DC has the same problem, the housing close to the stadium was completely ran down and it wasn't an ideal place to live.

Another factor you would have to look at, if the waterfront project did take off, the land that would be needed for parking would be an unbelievable cost to the city on the loss of tax revenue. So all of a sudden you would start losing parking in the open air and parking garages would have to be created which would end tailgate parties.

Watch what you wish for.

GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...

Typ0

11-14-2002, 09:39 PM

DIEHARD:

I am not from Buffalo and I pretty much lead a sheltered life. However, I do know some very knowledgeable people about the socio-political climate during the times the decisions were being made about the stadium being located in Orchard Park. There are an awefull lot of people who will assert the buffalo news lady (see I don't even know her name) got a bug up her butt about the stadium being downtown and totally pushed the project into Orchard Park. In fact, the people of Orchard Park did not even want the stadium there.

What I am saying is I am not equipped to carry on a debate about this topic. However, I am confident in the people who have helped to form my limited opinion.

But that what happened in the past is not what this post was about anyway.

11-14-2002, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by BFBills
i know that the city doesn't have this money butttttttttttt.
Tear down the aud, dunn tire park and any thing west of that (beside the tower,more like civic buildings and parking lots)
Ask a MLB and/or a NBA team to come. If one comes than build a stadium for that. Then build a football stadium with 80,000 plus seets and alot o' suits. then you have the rest of the area for parking and bars and hotels an resteraunts. Also build a stadium next to the MLB or NBA stadium for the Bisons. Then you have it all set up for the water front to shape up. Build civic centre(s) and build a BIG fire and police station so nothing will get out of control. make the subway so it is all under ground. We have the sky way to. Off the water front we could have a speicial port for the sport teams. As for the fans else where. Make a train going to it and make a ticket a long with it.

I have said too much.
I will go now.
Bye.

OK! $2B later... :D

Typ0,

"Do you really think we should make decisions about things today based on the prevailing cultural atmosphere in the 60s?"

Come on baby! Don't be square!

Make love, not war!

:D

Typ0

11-14-2002, 10:03 PM

Make love, not war!

That would be my choice.

DIHARD2

11-14-2002, 10:57 PM

Typ0, actually it was called the Buffalo Evening News back then. And they had very little to do with the decision. Whoever is feeding you this information is a little wrong on this one.

There were two sites involved it was Orchard Park and Lancaster. The Lancaster was going to be a dome built by the owner of the schoolbus company in the area Control I'm not sure I spelled his name right. Anyway he had bought the land in Lancaster, and it was going to Have two golf courses adjoining it. (You're right the people of Orchard Park did not want it, only because they feared a loss in property value, and a rise in property tax.)

Wilson did not want a private owner handling the lease of the stadium because he would have no leverage. Also a stipulation I believe was that a large percentage of the concession stands food drinks went to the owner of the stadium. Whereas at the Rich/Ralph, Ralph gets it all. Also parking would've gone to the owner of the stadium. The only cost to the taxpayers would've had to have been building and off ramp to the New York State TW and a access road.

I got very deep in that issue back then because I wanted a dome stadium, plus I didn't want to see the taxpayers having to pay for a whole in the ground. And I actually boycotted the first season at Rich Stadium, but I realize the only one I was punishing was myself.

I'm not saying that any of this should have anything to do with the decision-making process of a new stadium, I was just giving history on the comment about the news.

If there was away to put a package together and build the stadium within that whole system it would be great, but time is not on the side of reality. Just to get a halfway decent project in an area like the harbor it is going to take 20 years, and it should have been started 10 years ago.

So like wys stated I don't think your going to get many skyboxes sold showing perspective company CEO's the dead zone of Buffalo and ask them to imagine what it could look like. It's a lot easier on the eyes and the imagination to show trees grass and possibly get a sale.

PS, there was $400 million lawsuit against the city of Buffalo and Erie County on that deal I think it ended in the early '90s, the owner of the bus company lost of course.

GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...

Typ0

11-14-2002, 11:47 PM

I don't think they are wrong at all. I think they are talking about before the bout between the Lancaster Location and Orchard Park. The stadium was downtown already I believe and someone pushed around some political clout to make sure the downtown stadium was not replaced. The monday night parking comment was just an exaggeration.

The people of Orchard Park did not want the stadium also because they did not want to community to grow and all the traffic.

I am certain Ralph Wilson does not get all the concession profits. A huge chunk goes to some cause related to Orchard Park I think but I don't know where to get the information. Like I said I have gotten bits and pieces of this over the past three or four years.

DIHARD2

11-15-2002, 01:19 AM

in 65 I believe was the year we won the AFC, there was talk of the stadium at that time. But the city of Buffalo really had no place to put one at that time, sense the industry in the area was still going strong. There was also talk about the people in the neighborhoods that were suggested as possible sites, not wanting a stadium because of the way the area around the war Memorial had been ran down. They were afraid of losing property value like it did around the rock. I don't remember any write ups in the paper back then, by that time I wasn't delivering them anymore so I wasn't really reading them, I was getting ready to work for Uncle Sam back then. I think that's why when I came back I was so absorbed in the stadium controversy. So if that happens and if it was done between 65 and 68 early 69 I would not have known that. I was saluting some shake and bake idiot that Uncle Sam put out for us to shoot at LoL.

GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...

Jack In Syracuse

11-15-2002, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by Typ0
I am certain Ralph Wilson does not get all the concession profits. A huge chunk goes to some cause related to Orchard Park I think but I don't know where to get the information.

Part of the proceeds do go to local charities. Next time anyone is at the stadium and buying food, look on the back wall of the stands. There usually is a sign saying what group proceeds from that stand go to. I know the one near my seats go to a local Boy Scout troop.

Typ0

11-15-2002, 09:18 AM

That's probably it DIEHARD. Like I said I don't know much on this topic at all I only know what I have been told (most of which I have forgotten anyway). But I think the people who were doing the telling were knowledgeable.

Michael82

11-15-2002, 02:29 PM

Okay guys.... Stadium in Downtown Buffalo = NO TAILGATING or at least very limited!

Seriously, When I was in Seattle last year and saw their new stadium being built....I saw a big parking garage and then a small lot for players, and coaches/admin. If you move the stadium in the middle of the city....odds are that you will lose all the great tailgating spots that we currently have. You'll be stuck with a little lot and then parking garages. You can't use grills and cook in a parking garage. Without the parking lots and grassy lots...you lose all the tailgating and that atmosphere. I don't know about you guys...but thats one of the best parts about going to a Bills game....the tailgating atmosphere!!! You don't have that at a lot of places, especially the stadiums that are built in the middle of the city. Save Tailgating and the Fan Friendly atmosphere and say NO to a stadium in the middle of the city! :D

Earthquake Enyart

11-15-2002, 02:52 PM

They were going to build a dome in Lancaster. That was the plan before they built RWS. And let's not forget that during that time old Ralph went to Jacksonville and Seattle back then, threatening to move the team.

The_Philster

11-15-2002, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Mike32282
Okay guys.... Stadium in Downtown Buffalo = NO TAILGATING or at least very limited!

Seriously, When I was in Seattle last year and saw their new stadium being built....I saw a big parking garage and then a small lot for players, and coaches/admin. If you move the stadium in the middle of the city....odds are that you will lose all the great tailgating spots that we currently have. You'll be stuck with a little lot and then parking garages. You can't use grills and cook in a parking garage. Without the parking lots and grassy lots...you lose all the tailgating and that atmosphere. I don't know about you guys...but thats one of the best parts about going to a Bills game....the tailgating atmosphere!!! You don't have that at a lot of places, especially the stadiums that are built in the middle of the city. Save Tailgating and the Fan Friendly atmosphere and say NO to a stadium in the middle of the city! :D

:up: Post of the thread!!!

LtBillsFan66

11-15-2002, 03:40 PM

If Batavia was so great, why don't they get their own team?

Michael82

11-15-2002, 04:30 PM

Batavia would be a perfect place...because of location. It makes it easier for us Rochesterians to go to the games and the Syracuse fans too! Plus, right now in Orchard Park....its all spread apart in different times to get there. It takes someone in Rochester about 1 hour and 15 minutes or 1 hour and a half...depending on traffic. I know it takes LOG a lot longer from Elmira, and the people in Syracuse too. Buffalonians have just a short drive. It balances it out more if the stadium is in Batavia. It would probably take me 45 minutes to an hour to get there and Syracuse's time would be a little shorter, so would LOG's. The only difference....Buffalonians would actually have to travel a bit to get to the game. But it's only fair. Eh? :D

Earthquake Enyart

11-15-2002, 05:02 PM

You can't even get out of bed to go to training camp in town, and we have to move the stadium to make it easier for you???

:bigmike:

Michael82

11-15-2002, 05:27 PM

Bite me, You Fat Pansy! :D

Earthquake Enyart

11-15-2002, 05:29 PM

Where ya been Mike?

BFBills

11-15-2002, 05:30 PM

isn't it nice we can all get along!

Michael82

11-15-2002, 08:56 PM

I've been hiding! :ontome:

Seriously tho...I am working two jobs now, for the holidays, and that takes up all my free time. I work every day from 10:00am-5:30pm at a sports collectible kiosk. It's called Endzone Collectibles and its located in Marketplace Mall in Rochester. :) Then I still work at Wegmans every night. I usually work 7:30pm-12am on the weekdays and the overnights on Thursday-Fri and Friday-Sat. So, I really have no time to be on the computer anymore. :( I do have off on NFL Sunday tho! :up:

Typ0

11-15-2002, 11:00 PM

There is plenty of room on Grand Island. It must be the perfect place because the stadium would be right down the street from where I live.

The_Philster

11-16-2002, 05:12 AM

I feel for ya, Mikey. I worked two jobs for two years......never wanna do that again.

Earthquake Enyart

11-16-2002, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by Mike32282
I've been hiding! :ontome:

Seriously tho...I am working two jobs now, for the holidays, and that takes up all my free time. I work every day from 10:00am-5:30pm at a sports collectible kiosk. It's called Endzone Collectibles and its located in Marketplace Mall in Rochester. :) Then I still work at Wegmans every night. I usually work 7:30pm-12am on the weekdays and the overnights on Thursday-Fri and Friday-Sat. So, I really have no time to be on the computer anymore. :( I do have off on NFL Sunday tho! :up:

You ought to try to sell your football.

Oh, I forgot, it doesn't have Drews sig.