TD's moves that turned out better than expected

[HenryRules]

Ok, we've talked a lot before about TD's performance and whether it's been good or bad. A lot of people (including me) bring up moves that have turned out worse than expected. The defenders usually bring up moves that turned out as expected or saying that he did the best he could at the time.

Thing is, most decent GM's make moves that turn out better than expected now and again. I can't think of a single one that TD has made.

Just to clarify, here are what I consider to be a move that's turned out as expected, better than expected, or worse.

Better than expected - a solid starter from a 2nd day draft pick. A cheap free agent that turns into a really good starter. AFCE examples during TD's tenure: Dan Koppen, Randy McMichael, Eric Barton. Don't know an example for the Bills

As expected - high-priced free agents that make the pro bowl, 1st round picks that make the pro bowl, 2nd and 3rd round picks that are solid starters. AFCE examples during TD's tenure: Takeo Spikes, Wade Smith, Deion Branch, Kareem MacKenzie.

Below expectations - first day picks that don't start in 3 years, high-priced free agents that don't live up to their contracts. AFCE examples during TD's tenure: Pierson Prioleau, Bryan Thomas, Jamar Fletcher. I can't think of one for New England.

I can think of a move that's turned out better than expected for any decent team in the NFL, but I can't think of a single one during the TD era. The Peerless Price move might some day, but as it has turned out so far, we traded a really good #2 receiver for a backup RB.

[The_Philster]

Below expectations - first day picks that don't start in 3 years, high-priced free agents that don't live up to their contracts. AFCE examples during TD's tenure: Pierson Prioleau,.

Joined the Bills as an in-season free agent signing on 11/7/01…was originally drafted by San Francisco in the fourth round of the 1999 NFL Draft (110th overall) out of Virginia Tech…

I'm pretty sure he wasn't high-priced

The Peerless Price move might some day, but as it has turned out so far, we traded a really good #2 receiver for a backup RB

can't argue too much with that but I will say that, if you wanted to get technical, we traded him away so we could have the cap space to sign TKO...a definite upgrade over Eddie Robinson

[OpIv37]

maybe this is why TD gets to stick around so long... people keep saying "his team will pan out- just give it time". We're waiting on Mike Williams, McGahee, Losman and Evans to live up to expectations- it will take another 3 years before the verdict's in, and meanwhile his job is secure. Players like McGee come through and have a few good games- even if he sucks for the rest of the season, he has enough "potential" for TD to say he made a good decision.

[HenryRules]

Prioleau is making $1 mil this year and costs over 1.4 mil against the cap and is our 3rd safety at both spots. He signed that contract in 2002, so I consider that to be getting worse than expected returns.

[Dozerdog]

The Price move was inevitable....and smart.

1- He wanted #1 WR money. How many $42 million WRs can this team afford?

2- He wanted out. He did not want to be second banana

3- With that in mind, we could have signed him for the $5 million franchise tag. But that meant no Spikes. We needed Spikes a lot more than Peerless.

4- Even with Peerless, Bledsoe would still be sacked a hundred times. We would have two very expensive WR's we could not get the ball to instead of just one.

5- We recouped the Bledsoe pick because Atlanta was stupid. They could have drafted a WR a lot cheaper and still got the pathetic production Peerless has given them.

[juice]

The Price move was inevitable....and smart.

1- He wanted #1 WR money. How many $42 million WRs can this team afford?

2- He wanted out. He did not want to be second banana

3- With that in mind, we could have signed him for the $5 million franchise tag. But that meant no Spikes. We needed Spikes a lot more than Peerless.

4- Even with Peerless, Bledsoe would still be sacked a hundred times. We would have two very expensive WR's we could not get the ball to instead of just one.

5- We recouped the Bledsoe pick because Atlanta was stupid. They could have drafted a WR a lot cheaper and still got the pathetic production Peerless has given them.

Good points.. even though Price down in Atlanta with Crumpler may still pan out once Vick learns the west Coast offense because they are playing good "D".

[ScottLawrence]

1. Price Trade

2. Jonnas Jennings in 3rd round

3. ?

4.ummmmm

5.DOOOOMMMMMMEDDDDD

[HenryRules]

The Price move was inevitable....and smart.

1- He wanted #1 WR money. How many $42 million WRs can this team afford?

2- He wanted out. He did not want to be second banana

3- With that in mind, we could have signed him for the $5 million franchise tag. But that meant no Spikes. We needed Spikes a lot more than Peerless.

4- Even with Peerless, Bledsoe would still be sacked a hundred times. We would have two very expensive WR's we could not get the ball to instead of just one.

5- We recouped the Bledsoe pick because Atlanta was stupid. They could have drafted a WR a lot cheaper and still got the pathetic production Peerless has given them.

I'll grant you those even though I disagree with most of your points ... I still don't see how acquiring a backup RB that costs almost 2 mil against the cap can be considered a move that turned out better than expected. Not re-signing him gave us the cap room to sign Spikes. The trading of Price just ended up chewing up a lot of cap room for what is currently minimal benefit. As I said, in the future, this may be a deal that turns out better than expected, but right now, it looks as good as expected - we let Price go, signed a free agent with his money and got a backup RB that chews up a lot of cap room.

[HenryRules]

1. Price Trade

2. Jonnas Jennings in 3rd round

3. ?

4.ummmmm

5.DOOOOMMMMMMEDDDDD

Price trade, see above.

Jennings initially looked like he might have been a really good 3rd round pick. However, for a player in his 4th year, I think he's performing right about where you expect a 3rd round pick to.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

2001 was a pretty good draft for TD, he gets Clements, Schobel, Henry, Jennings, and Edwards. All of these players are still on the team. Henry and Jennings are good players, don't let last week let you determine that Jennings sucks. First off, the guy played with a concussion. Henry is struggling right now, but he is a good RB.

2002 is where things get ugly. First off Mike Williams, Josh Reed, Ryan Denney, and Coy Wire might make a worst draft ever. Kevin Thomas was a sixth rounder.

2003 is going to all be determined by Willis McGahee, but considering who has been playing it might turn out to be a decent draft. Add that to the fact that Donahoe got the pick when he didn't have one, basically for holding on to Peerless Price. Chris Kelsay is still an unknown and needs to improve, but Terrence McGee and Sam Aiken might turn out to be good players, especially McGee.

2004 is looking OK so far. Lee Evans is coming on and I can't remember a dropped pass. Everyone keeps telling me that JP Losman is the next Brett Favre. Tim Euhus has been playing. I believe I have seen Tim Anderson. Dylan McFarland has potential but will need work.


Free Agents/Trade
Sam Adams - TD needed a DT, Adams was there.
Rashaad Baker came in as an undrafted free agent and not only made the team but has played in games. He can only get better.
Drew Bledsoe - The team had no QB and TD thought he was the best option. The price tag might have been too high, but oh well.
London Fletcher - The team lost Sam Cowart and Fletcher was a viable option. With the exception of a couple of bone head plays he has been a solid player.
Rian Lindell - He shoots, brick.
Lawyer Milloy - an good safety became available, TD got him. Everyone was saying what a mistake this was. Well, you never know what you've got until it's gone.
Marcus Price - TD brought him in and he as been a decent fill-in.
Izell Reece - Came in at a decent price, but hasn't played up to expectations.
Lawrence Smith - He is OK
Takeo Spikes - TD went out to get an impact player and TKO was there. Unfortunately he hasn't been very impact, well except for one game.
Trey Teague - a tackle to play center?
Chris Villarial - I can't say too much about him.
Troy Vincent - TD brings in a replacement for a good CB. Injured.
Shaud Williams - Undrafted free agent makes the team.

[Jayhawk]

The guy needed to get a real oline and a real center.

[Mr. Cynical]

Good post Ghost. For the most part I agree.

However, at the end of the day it is irrelevant what moves he made right or wrong. 17-35, riding a 7 game losing streak means he needs to go. Just like it wasn't Belichick's destiny to be in Cleveland, it isn't TD's destiny to be in Buffalo.

[TigerJ]

I agree with most of what you said, Ghost. I question that the expectations were terribly high for Izell Reese. He came in with a reputation as a guy who plays steady but doesn't make many big plays. I'd say that is a pretty fair assessment.

[Patti120]

Good post by Ghost. Unfortunately with all of those (arguably) good trades and some decent and terrible drafting the O-line is still disgusting. And although this topic has been tossed around hundreds of times before, to make DB a playmaker you've got to have the o-line to give him a pocket, without that the offensive woes continue and the offense is terrible. But again, as this has been discussed a hundred times over, when you bring in DB you know what you've got to do to set him up for success and since he's been here he's really been set up for only failure.

Now, I admit that TD has been terrible and if things don't pan out over the next year or two then he has got to go, but right now we are stuck with him and his decisions, and as impatient as I've become with this team and front office, I will fortunately or unfortunately be right here either talking ***** or praising the then current administration.

[Dozerdog]

I'll grant you those even though I disagree with most of your points ... I still don't see how acquiring a backup RB that costs almost 2 mil against the cap can be considered a move that turned out better than expected. Not re-signing him gave us the cap room to sign Spikes. The trading of Price just ended up chewing up a lot of cap room for what is currently minimal benefit. As I said, in the future, this may be a deal that turns out better than expected, but right now, it looks as good as expected - we let Price go, signed a free agent with his money and got a backup RB that chews up a lot of cap room.

Just to make sure I'm reading this right-

Spikes is a minimal benefit? Didn't he go to the pro bowl? Didn't the defense jump something like 25 spots in the rankings to #2 overall?


We traded Price 2 months before the draft. Other than the draft slot, we had no idea who or what was on the board at 22 (or wherever the pick was)

When the pick came to us the pickings were slim- so he took a shot with the best pure athlete and best future potential- AT THE TIME Ruben Brown was cominng off an 8th pro- bowl (deservidly or not is up to debate but he wasn't complete garbage yet).