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mybills
10-16-2004, 06:45 AM
Some of this was on the news, here's more...

A sweeping new federal law nicknamed "Check 21" takes effect on Oct. 28, 2004. This law will change the way your checking account works, giving digital copies of checks the same validity as paper ones. You may hear about this law from your bank, or, due to loopholes, you may never hear about its resulting impact. But you definitely want to be up to speed on the upcoming changes.

Here's a rundown of the important changes that will result from "Check 21."

NO MORE FLOAT: The "float" is the time between when you write a check and when the money is taken out of your account. Say goodbye to the float, forever. This law allows your check to be handled electronically once it has been received, just like a debit card payment. You dare not write a check unless you have the full amount in your account the moment you sign your name -- that is how fast the check will be processed. You cannot afford to be socked with big overdraft or bounce fees.

NO MORE STOP PAYMENTS: Remember the good old days when you could stop payment on a check because you changed your mind or the service was unacceptable? Well, you can kiss those days goodbye as well. You will no longer have the luxury of time to change your mind.

NO MORE CANCELLED CHECKS: You won't be able to get your original paper checks back because your bank will not have them. Your paper checks are digitally copied to create a "substitute check" and then destroyed the moment they are accepted as electronic transactions. Cancelled checks for proof of payment or to fight a forgery are a thing of the past. You want to make sure your bank sends you copies of your substitute checks, which will be legal proof of payment. Watch out for fees associated with a substitute-check-returning account. Look for another bank if your bank charges a high fee to get copies of all your checks as substitute checks.

DEPOSITS STILL ON HOLD: Just because your checks will clear faster doesn't mean your deposits will be available to you any sooner. The new law does not shorten check hold times.

WATCH YOUR ACCOUNT: The possibility exists that a check can be turned into an electronic transaction with a "substitute check" and then the original paper check is not destroyed, allowing it to make the rounds and be credited against your account a second time! Now more than ever it is important that you keep an eye on your account for such errors. If you spot an error or fraud the bank must put the money back into your account within 10 business days, but only if you have not waived your rights to have "substitute" checks provided to you.

DON'T SIGN UP FOR VOLUNTARY CHECK TRUNCATION: You bank may ask you to agree to "voluntary check truncation." This means you give up your rights to have copies of your substitute checks returned to you. The Consumers Union warns us that we will have even fewer consumer rights under voluntary non-return of our checks than we will have under the full provisions of Check 21. For this reason they recommend that we decline invitations from our banks to convert to "voluntary check truncation."

While I've only summarized portions of Check 21 for this article, you owe it to yourself to learn as much as you can about how this law will affect you. You can learn more about Check 21 and its provisions at the Consumers Union Web site at www.consumersunion.org and the American Bankers Association's "Check 21 Resource Center" (www.aba.com).

Jayhawk
10-16-2004, 06:57 AM
damn where was that when I was bouncing stuff. Man, I would have paid more attention if I had that.

clumping platelets
10-16-2004, 07:18 AM
"Check 21" courtesy of the Bush Administration

mybills
10-16-2004, 07:23 AM
Please don't move this to the election forum. Some people don't go in there and they need to see this. Thanks!

mybills
10-17-2004, 06:09 AM
bump

Ebenezer
10-17-2004, 07:20 AM
Some of this was on the news, here's more...

A sweeping new federal law nicknamed "Check 21" takes effect on Oct. 28, 2004. This law will change the way your checking account works, giving digital copies of checks the same validity as paper ones. You may hear about this law from your bank, or, due to loopholes, you may never hear about its resulting impact. But you definitely want to be up to speed on the upcoming changes.

Here's a rundown of the important changes that will result from "Check 21."

mybills, why do you think I have a problem with everything the gov't or this administration does?? Being fiscally conservative I actually like many aspects of this law.

NO MORE FLOAT: The "float" is the time between when you write a check and when the money is taken out of your account. Say goodbye to the float, forever. This law allows your check to be handled electronically once it has been received, just like a debit card payment. You dare not write a check unless you have the full amount in your account the moment you sign your name -- that is how fast the check will be processed. You cannot afford to be socked with big overdraft or bounce fees.

Good! If you don't have the cash you shouldn't be paying for things. Budget your money better and only spend what you can! Why should the bank give you three days for a check to clear? Somebody is losing money somewhere when that happens.

NO MORE STOP PAYMENTS: Remember the good old days when you could stop payment on a check because you changed your mind or the service was unacceptable? Well, you can kiss those days goodbye as well. You will no longer have the luxury of time to change your mind.

I've never understood why you would need to stop payment on a check. I am sure once in a blue moon there is a valid reason. I have been writing checks since I was 16. I took care of my grandparents checking accounts for 10 years, I've taken care of my father's for the last 15 years...I have NEVER had to stop payment on a check.

NO MORE CANCELLED CHECKS: You won't be able to get your original paper checks back because your bank will not have them. Your paper checks are digitally copied to create a "substitute check" and then destroyed the moment they are accepted as electronic transactions. Cancelled checks for proof of payment or to fight a forgery are a thing of the past. You want to make sure your bank sends you copies of your substitute checks, which will be legal proof of payment. Watch out for fees associated with a substitute-check-returning account. Look for another bank if your bank charges a high fee to get copies of all your checks as substitute checks.

Many banks in the Buffalo area NEVER gave you your checks back. I am not a big fan of this part but it will save the banks some money. As long as the law protects people who need to use a digital, substitute copy then fine. We shred our checks after a year anyway.

DEPOSITS STILL ON HOLD: Just because your checks will clear faster doesn't mean your deposits will be available to you any sooner. The new law does not shorten check hold times.

I disagree with this part. If the check can come out of your account faster then it can go into your account faster. What's good for the goose...

WATCH YOUR ACCOUNT: The possibility exists that a check can be turned into an electronic transaction with a "substitute check" and then the original paper check is not destroyed, allowing it to make the rounds and be credited against your account a second time! Now more than ever it is important that you keep an eye on your account for such errors. If you spot an error or fraud the bank must put the money back into your account within 10 business days, but only if you have not waived your rights to have "substitute" checks provided to you.

This can happen with humans and real checks too (and has to me). Again, you are not smart if you do not check your statements against your register.

DON'T SIGN UP FOR VOLUNTARY CHECK TRUNCATION: You bank may ask you to agree to "voluntary check truncation." This means you give up your rights to have copies of your substitute checks returned to you. The Consumers Union warns us that we will have even fewer consumer rights under voluntary non-return of our checks than we will have under the full provisions of Check 21. For this reason they recommend that we decline invitations from our banks to convert to "voluntary check truncation."

Again, you can't legislate stupidity. If you sign your rights away without reading the documents then it is your fault.

Now, explain to me again why I would have this bill...again, being fiscally conservative I think it is smart...and if people don't have the wherewithall to help themselves...

Ebenezer
10-17-2004, 07:28 AM
Also, as long as there is no provision in the law that allows the gov't to take, steal, search or rummage through the info without a search warrant showing just cause (or whatever device they use during a legal investigation), then personally, I don't care...again, people have to shop around and protect themselves...I see nothing obtrusive here.

honey
10-17-2004, 08:34 AM
I've used the stop payment mechanasim a few times. Only because the person I sent a check to never got it, though, so I had to write a new one and I didn't want the other one to be cashed as well.

I also disagree with the deposits not being available on demand. If the check I write can clear immediately, so should the check I deposit.

Cntrygal
10-17-2004, 09:08 AM
:eek:

Eb, I agree with you. :couch:








:;

Typ0
10-17-2004, 09:29 AM
I've used the stop payment mechanasim a few times. Only because the person I sent a check to never got it, though, so I had to write a new one and I didn't want the other one to be cashed as well.

I also disagree with the deposits not being available on demand. If the check I write can clear immediately, so should the check I deposit.

On the surface this arguements seems quite logical...but what people are failing to see is this law is targeted towards managing personal checking accounts and a lot of deposits aren't drawn on personal accounts. Why does it make a difference? Because personal checking accounts are loss-leaders for the banks. If the government was to make the banks put a system in place that immediately moved funds from commercial to personal accounts the capital losses to the larger banks would be quite significant...as they make a great deal of their revenues on the float and buying and selling bonds in open markets when their markets are closed. Abruptly taking a significant source of revenue away from the larger holding banks and putting it in the hands of smaller regional banks would be a significant shift to our economy and would probably drive interest rates to the roof because the leverage of the banks that secure a great deal of the capital in our economy would be depleted...so the fact that these deposits still take time to clear protects the individual from capital losses in the form of higher interest.

ArcticWildMan
10-17-2004, 02:17 PM
"Check 21" courtesy of the Bush Administration


Yeah. Being responsible and only buying something when you have the money is all Bush's fault. Give me a break, will you? :rolleyes:

Ebenezer
10-17-2004, 04:31 PM
Yeah. Being responsible and only buying something when you have the money is all Bush's fault. Give me a break, will you? :rolleyes:
I just don't believe you should legislate stupidity...people have to protect themselves...

ArcticWildMan
10-17-2004, 05:03 PM
I just don't believe you should legislate stupidity...people have to protect themselves...


LOL!!! True!! But more efficient transfer of funds for trade purposes only makes sense to me.

All this law does is allow the implimentation of technology that has existed for years. I really don't see the slightest problem with instantaneous electronic transfers. Wal-Mart already does it with their check system. My bank account is debited within minutes of me presenting a check there.

mybills
10-17-2004, 07:14 PM
I don't mind it because I've had to wait for peoples checks to clear...always a problem with self employment. I really thought Eb would have a problem with it infringing on his privacy. :idunno:

Ebenezer
10-17-2004, 07:21 PM
I don't mind it because I've had to wait for peoples checks to clear...always a problem with self employment. I really thought Eb would have a problem with it infringing on his privacy. :idunno:
I don't really see it as a privacy issue...as AWM says, the techology has been there and others have been using it. Granted, people have to watch themselves and their budget more closely, but, hey, people need to learn to take care of themselves...

Again, as long as the gov't cannot get the info without just cause and an electronic copy is as protected as having the real check...no problem.

I would like it if deposits when in immediately...but thanks for clearing that up Typ0.