The RB Catch-22

[Mr. Cynical]

...how do you propose we find out if he doesn't play an entire game like he did against Miami? He needs at least 15-20 carries for it to be a fair test. He won't get that many if he isn't starting.

[juice]

10 carries for 45 yds and 5 passes for 50 yds.. for WM

Henry has to get his total yards up to keep his trade value high.

Henry 15 carries for 75 yds.

Use TH to grind out the tough yards and use WM in pass and goalline situations.. shufflepasses and screen passes.

[Mr. Cynical]

That really doesn't answer the question tho juice. You are predicting numbers that they have no control over. The only thing they have control over is who to play, and the question is how do you find out if WM should be the starter if he doesn't get the chance again to prove it.

[juice]

That really doesn't answer the question tho juice. You are predicting numbers that they have no control over. The only thing they have control over is who to play, and the question is how do you find out if WM should be the starter if he doesn't get the chance again to prove it.
There is no Question, since last games performance I haven't seen anyone saying that "he is not quite there".. If he is nearing 100% and can rush for over 100 yards, Then What is the question.

Without a doubt TH will be moved at seasons end.. So the only real question remaining is how do we get Henry up and over 1200 yards and keep him healthy?

Here's the answer.. With his current yards gained Henry needs to average around 85 yds/gm and stay healthy enough not to be sidelined with the Minor Dings.. WM taking 3rd downs and Pass situations will remedy TH being overused and missing games.

At the present state of this team, finding out "What Willis can do" is a distant second to regaining compensation for the 1st pick given to the Cowboys.

[TigerJ]

I think a first round pick for Travis is probably not very realistic at this point. Even if he gains 1200 yards, he has too many warts. Pro personnel guys know he has great quickness and toughness and not a whole lot more. He's had some fumbling problems. He has trouble making something out of nothing if the designed hole isn't there. He's showing a tendency to get dinged up. He's not much of a blocker, and he doesn't use blockers terribly well. He can make mistakes and forgets plays sometimes. He is probably worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick in a trade no matter what happens the rest of the season. I say untill the Bills are mathmatecally eliminated from the playoffs, they have to play the personnel package that gives them the best chance to win games this year. That's far more important than how much Henry is worth in a trade after the season.

[juice]

Henry was never going to fetch a 1st rnd. pick but if he doesn't get 1000 yards we will be lucky if someone will give even a low 2nd rnder for him.

Henry might have been worth a low first rnd. pick at the beggining of the season when his value was at it's peak from someone desperate enough like Miami, but at seasons end I can see only a mid to late second for him.

[Mr. Cynical]

Without a doubt TH will be moved at seasons end.. So the only real question remaining is how do we get Henry up and over 1200 yards and keep him healthy?

At the present state of this team, finding out "What Willis can do" is a distant second to regaining compensation for the 1st pick given to the Cowboys.That is really twisted logic. You don't play a player just to "up his trade value". You play your players to win. You play your players to get experience to help build the team. You don't play players to up their trade value.

And in any case, that is not the argument that TH supporters are using. They are saying WM had "one good game" and that TH has proven himself for 2 seasons, thus TH should still start.

So the question again is, how do you know if WM is the real deal without giving him the start. The answer is you can't.

[Throne Logic]

So the question again is, how do you know if WM is the real deal without giving him the start. The answer is you can't. I just want to hear someone else say it.

That's all you want? Fine. I agree. If Willis doesn't get a couple complete games to himself, we will not be able to determine if he's capable of handling this responsibility.

This does not mean that TH should be benched.

Should we keep Vincent on the bench when he's healthy to see if McGee keeps getting better?

Perhaps we should bench Moulds to see if Aiken is able to handle a starting role. Then we can begin discussing trading Moulds to regain that #1 pick next year.

[Mr. Cynical]

That's all you want? Fine. I agree. If Willis doesn't get a couple complete games to himself, we will not be able to determine if he's capable of handling this responsibility.

This does not mean that TH should be benched.:huh:

First you agree with me that WM needs a couple more complete games to himself to see if he is capable. Therefore that means you agree TH should be benched the next couple of games.

Then you say this does not mean TH should be benched.

I don't get it.


Should we keep Vincent on the bench when he's healthy to see if McGee keeps getting better? This is from a thread you started:


I'd like to see Vincent be moved to FS when he's ready to come back. McGee has done OK at CB. More importantly, he has shown steady improvement with experience. This gives Buffalo the luxury to make this move. It could solidify what has been a shaky secondary. Clements, Milloy, Vincent, and McGee all out there in the base D packages.:huh:

You attack my post basically saying it would be stupid to start McGee over Vincent at CB. Yet you are proposing to start McGee at CB in another thread.

Again, I don't get it.

[juice]

That is really twisted logic. You don't play a player just to "up his trade value". You play your players to win. You play your players to get experience to help build the team. You don't play players to up their trade value.

And in any case, that is not the argument that TH supporters are using. They are saying WM had "one good game" and that TH has proven himself for 2 seasons, thus TH should still start.

So the question again is, how do you know if WM is the real deal without giving him the start. The answer is you can't.
I'm not argueing the point as a Henry supporter, I 'm taking this position as a Bills supporter.. In reality you DO play him to up his value when you are not picking in the first round.. or you will be conceding that a 3x consecutive 1000 yard rusher isn't worth anymore than a 3rd round pick in trade value on the open market.

With your logic we should bench Vincint, because the season is lost, to see if McGee is able to be effective at the corner or bench Moulds to give Aiken Playtime.

WM was playing a an extremely high level at Miami, the way to guage his ability is to make sure he is 100% and that he can stay healthy, not just give him the ball 25-30x/gm and see if he can take the beating.

You get tour money's worth out of Henry this year by increasing his YPG and getting him up over the 1000 yd mark fot the forth consecutive year.

[Earthquake Enyart]

So let me get this straight....... "Mr. Cynical" hates Henry now? Hate, then love, then hate?

Flip flop.

[Dozerdog]

So let me get this straight....... "Mr. Cynical" hates Henry now? Hate, then love, then hate?

Flip flop.


Wasted pick that brings no current value.........but let's start him anyway

[Mr. Cynical]

I'm not argueing the point as a Henry supporter, I 'm taking this position as a Bills supporter.. In reality you DO play him to up his value when you are not picking in the first round.. or you will be conceding that a 3x consecutive 1000 yard rusher isn't worth anymore than a 3rd round pick in trade value on the open market.Sorry, but if you are a BILLS fan, you want the team to win AND getter better at the same time. Playing WM and getting him the experience for next year is far more valuable than any unknown pick we will get for TH. TD bet the farm and rolled the dice on WM by using our #1 on him. He was our future, but now it looks as though he has brought that future to our present. I for one want to see the Bills WIN, and WM showed me last week he is our best chance at doing so.

And face it, we are not getting a 1st rounder for TH no matter what. A 2nd, maybe, but as others have pointed out NE gave Cincy a 2nd for Dillon and he only had 541 yards last year.


WM was playing a an extremely high level at Miami, the way to guage his ability is to make sure he is 100% and that he can stay healthy, not just give him the ball 25-30x/gm and see if he can take the beating.That makes no sense whatsoever. How do you "gauge" his ability or make sure he is "100%" if you don't play him? He was fine in Miami as his 111 yard effort against a #6 defense so I think it is safe to say he is ready to play.

[Mr. Cynical]

So let me get this straight....... "Mr. Cynical" hates Henry now? Hate, then love, then hate?

Flip flop.
Show me one post where I said TH should not be traded or that WM shouldn't start as soon as he was healthy. Just one.

I just love comments from the Peanut Gallery. You get called a "hater" whenever you suggest something to make the Bills a better team. :shakeno:

[Mr. Miyagi]

IMO, whether we play Henry or not this season will not greatly affect his trade value. There are plenty of films on him already, and that's what teams will go by, as long as he's not injured. And for that reason it even makes more sense to use him sparingly this season.

I disagree that Henry won't get us a 1st rounder. We may not think he's worth one, but then again we didn't think Atlanta would fork up a 1st rounder for Peerless Price either. There'll always be a team desperate enough for a proven 1000+ yard back to pay the big bucks.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Show me one post where I said TH should not be traded or that WM shouldn't start as soon as he was healthy. Just one.

I just love comments from the Peanut Gallery. You get called a "hater" whenever you suggest something to make the Bills a better team. :shakeno:
The inconsistent opinions bother me more than having strong opinions of the players.

You sound like a sports radio host wannabe. Make up some "controversy".

I've never been enamored with Henry, and to be honest, I'd have gotten rid of him after that gas station nonsense. I saw enough of Willis in preseason to recognize that he may be a more effective runner with this line, in this offense, than Henry. And when Willis gets his full speed back next year (if he works hard), he's going to be something. The runs he breaks for 20 yards will go to the house.



I've watched Buffalo Bills football for a long time, and I think I know what I see.

[Mr. Cynical]

The inconsistent opinions bother me more than having strong opinions of the players.

You sound like a sports radio host wannabe. Make up some "controversy".

I've never been enamored with Henry, and to be honest, I'd have gotten rid of him after that gas station nonsense. I saw enough of Willis in preseason to recognize that he may be a more effective runner with this line, in this offense, than Henry. And when Willis gets his full speed back next year (if he works hard), he's going to be something. The runs he breaks for 20 yards will go to the house.



I've watched Buffalo Bills football for a long time, and I think I know what I see.
I don't get it. You and I are completely on the same page. I have never flip flopped on the TH/WM situation, so you must have me confused with someone else.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I don't get it. You and I are completely on the same page. I have never flip flopped on the TH/WM situation, so you must have me confused with someone else.
I must be thinking about your previous, wyser days.

[Mr. Cynical]

I must be thinking aobut your previous, wyser days.
Sigh. Again with the shot. :shakeno:

[TigerJ]

I don't think that there is really any doubt that McGahee needs more playing time to eliminate any doubts that his knee injury is history and he has the talent it was thought he had when he was drafted. The question is, is it in the best interest of the Bills to play him now in order to make that determination, or to play Henry where what you see is what you get. It's a coaching decision.

I know my preference is to play McGahee more sooner. I think it's obvious McGahee did not hurt the Bills in the Miami game, and I don't think he would hurt Buffalo in future games were he to get playing time instead of Travis, but if Mularkey elects to go with Travis, I'm not going to fret about it. We'll just have to be patient concerning McGahee. We'll know when we know about McGahee, if that's the direction Mularkey goes.

[Mr. Cynical]

bump :D