You want to know what will make TD look like a genius?

[Tatonka]

i will forgive TD completely if Losman comes in and plays like brett farve.. mcgahee looks like bo jackson, and lee evans plays like marvin harrison.

the offensive line is an issue right now.. no question.. but would we even be talking about it if the qb was mobile? i personally dont think so.. not to say that i dont want to see the oline upgraded.. but i am positive that it will look a hell of alot better with a mobile qb.

i like what mcgahee has shown, other than his piss poor effort chasing down that interception yesterday.. with an adequate passing game and an improved oline, and a little more of his jump back.. i could see him being a dominant player.

i like what lee evans has shown. it is obviously tough to gauge a rookie wr.. and it is especially tough to judge them when their qbs are not capable of hitting them in stride or in the numbers on a regular basis. so far though, evans has shown what we had hoped for.. great speed and good hands.

are the expectations of farve, jackson, and harrison a bit high.. sure.. definately.. my point is.. if these three are our new trio and td can figure out a way to fix the oline.. all is forgiven..

[OpIv37]

the offensive line is an issue right now.. no question.. but would we even be talking about it if the qb was mobile? i personally dont think so..



I agree with your overall point- TD can still redeem himself.

But I disagree about the O line because they can't run block for ****. Both Henry and McGahee had no holes yesterday. maybe if we had a mobile QB, it would help because it would force the D to back off and spy. But our run game would still be struggling.

[Mr. Cynical]

are the expectations of farve, jackson, and harrison a bit high.. sure.. definately.. my point is.. if these three are our new trio and td can figure out a way to fix the oline.. all is forgiven..
I agree. :D

Well, actually there's one more piece that has to work out: MM. It's possible that those three can shine and MM turn out to be a dud. If that happens, TD will be 0-2 on the most important person on the team...the coach. Ultimately the coach is the position we need to have right in order to move forward for years to come.

[FTG]

are the expectations of farve, jackson, and harrison a bit high.. sure.. definately.. my point is.. if these three are our new trio and td can figure out a way to fix the oline.. all is forgiven..

I agree. If these 3 pan out as well as MM than all is forgiven TD. My only problem with him is sticking with a bad decision to long. Every GM makes mistakesand I don't expect him not to. Some just realize it and correct it. He has this problem of keeping his mistakes 1 year to long and that is what bothers me about him.

[Tatonka]

i think the oline blocks better against the run if we had a qb that had any threat of mobility..

problem is that because drew is a statue.. all other teams have to do is just blitz ALL THE TIME... it eats up the run or the pass.. now typically if you have a qb that can adjust to a blitzing team.. which we dont.. you can burn teams for blitzing with reckless abandon.. like the patriots did..

if a qb could scramble out of the pocket and toss a td over the defenses head.. maybe the blitzing would stop coming on every play and it would make run blocking look a hell of alot better.

[BAM]

if a qb could scramble out of the pocket and toss a td over the defenses head.. maybe the blitzing would stop coming on every play and it would make run blocking look a hell of alot better.

Yes. :up:

[Tatonka]

call me crazy.. but i still am not one single bit worried about MM.. i feel like he was the right choice.. that is just my gut telling me that.. obviously we havent seen alot to show us one way or the other..

maybe MM needs a different offensive cordinator.. it could be as simple as that.. but regardless.. i like MM.. i like the way he carries himself and how he represents this team.

[OpIv37]

if a qb could scramble out of the pocket and toss a td over the defenses head.. maybe the blitzing would stop coming on every play and it would make run blocking look a hell of alot better.

Maybe, or maybe our penalty-prone O-line would just get called for holding more often, as they try to stop players who have already beaten them from chasing down JP.

[Jayhawk]

call me crazy.. but i still am not one single bit worried about MM.. i feel like he was the right choice.. that is just my gut telling me that.. obviously we havent seen alot to show us one way or the other..

maybe MM needs a different offensive cordinator.. it could be as simple as that.. but regardless.. i like MM.. i like the way he carries himself and how he represents this team.
I'd hate to see him succed, because then who would Ihave to curse? I need like 20 things to curse.

[Mr. Cynical]

I'd hate to see him succed, because then who would Ihave to curse? I need like 20 things to curse.If he succeeds we can all go back to cursing the right people......the refs. :D

P.S. Great sig icon! lol

[Turf]

TD won't ever be succesful until he

1) Doesn't let home grown talent leave (Price) because he is an ego maniac

2) Thrives to improve the offensive line with the same vigor he goes after name players with, his biggest shortcoming.

[Ebenezer]

i will forgive TD completely if Losman comes in and plays like brett farve.. mcgahee looks like bo jackson, and lee evans plays like marvin harrison.

the offensive line is an issue right now.. no question.. but would we even be talking about it if the qb was mobile? i personally dont think so.. not to say that i dont want to see the oline upgraded.. but i am positive that it will look a hell of alot better with a mobile qb.

i like what mcgahee has shown, other than his piss poor effort chasing down that interception yesterday.. with an adequate passing game and an improved oline, and a little more of his jump back.. i could see him being a dominant player.

i like what lee evans has shown. it is obviously tough to gauge a rookie wr.. and it is especially tough to judge them when their qbs are not capable of hitting them in stride or in the numbers on a regular basis. so far though, evans has shown what we had hoped for.. great speed and good hands.

are the expectations of farve, jackson, and harrison a bit high.. sure.. definately.. my point is.. if these three are our new trio and td can figure out a way to fix the oline.. all is forgiven..
the key is the OL...TD addressed it and failed...he has to again pronto...like this offseason.

[The_Philster]

TD won't ever be succesful until he

1) Doesn't let home grown talent leave (Price) because he is an ego maniacHe's an egomaniac because he doesn't want to spend #1 receiver money to two separate players and wanted to spend some money on the defense? :huh:

[BiLLSRuLE]

Ya'll got me all excited now :bow: :clap:

[Turf]

He's an egomaniac because he doesn't want to spend #1 receiver money to two separate players and wanted to spend some money on the defense? :huh:


I was talking to a Steelers fan today, and he was mentioning what Donahoe did in Pittsburgh which was absolutely correct, and that I remember.
They would bring in talent, groom it, get successful, then let them go instead of sign them.
Hey Phil, we let Peerless go over ~40 million, and with it went the offense, and signed Shoebel to 26 million.
BTW, the cheerleader photographer needs to be relieved more than Drew.

[FTG]

1) Doesn't let home grown talent leave (Price) because he is an ego maniac

.

I can't see how anyone can fault him for that. The money Price would have cost was used on Takeo Spikes.



Takeo Spikes and Willis MaGahee or Peerless Price who has done nothing for ATL :scratch:

[Kenny]

Since neither of the three have really played much in the NFL yet (especially Losman, who has played 1 or 2 preseason games), it's really hard to judge.

But just from college, it's a long shot for Losman and Evans to become the next Farve and Harrison. This isnt to say they wont be productive, it's just that you're measuring them with very high standards.

McGahee on the other hand... well the sky's the limit, so long as he can stay injury free, and develops a good football attitude.

[Hemlepp53]

i like what mcgahee has shown, other than his piss poor effort chasing down that interception yesterday..

This really bothered me Fellaz... We need players willing to play HARDER than that.... With his SPEED he can run down most LB,CB.. He should at least show the effort

[Hemlepp53]

I can't see how anyone can fault him for that. The money Price would have cost was used on Takeo Spikes.



Takeo Spikes and Willis MaGahee or Peerless Price who has done nothing for ATL :scratch:

NO BRAINER... :scratch: ... Takeo And Willis All Day!!!

[Tatonka]

Hey Phil, we let Peerless go over ~40 million, and with it went the offense,

i think you are having a case of selective memory.. the offense was already GONE by midway through the season of 2002.. and hasnt been seen since... it was also about the same time the defense showed up.

peerless would not have changed what happened here one single bit.. he was over rated and no way was he worth more than moulds.. which is what he wanted.. ALONG with being a number one.. which he never could have been here.. so F him.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Since neither of the three have really played much in the NFL yet (especially Losman, who has played 1 or 2 preseason games), it's really hard to judge.

But just from college, it's a long shot for Losman and Evans to become the next Farve and Harrison. This isnt to say they wont be productive, it's just that you're measuring them with very high standards.

McGahee on the other hand... well the sky's the limit, so long as he can stay injury free, and develops a good football attitude.
While I agree that that it's really hard to judge because none of the three have played enough--or played with an effective offensive line--yet, to base your assessment that it's a long shot for Losman and Evans to become the next Favre and Harrison on their college careers is ridiculous and ignores the facts.

In fact, the college careers of Losman and Evans were very similar in many respects to the careers of Favre and Harrison: Favre played for S. Miss where he frequently had to make something out of nothing because he had limited talent around him and he struggled against better teams on the schedule--Losman played at Tulane where he and Mwelde Moore were the only decent players on a bad team and the two of them had to improvise to make something out of nothing and struggled against better teams; Marvin Harrison was the deep threat in a predominantly rushing attack at Syracuse where he was very successful, but there were questions about his ability to do well in a sophisticated pro passing offense--Lee Evans was the speed receiver in a predominantly rushing attack at Wisconsin where he was very successful, but there were questions about his ability to quickly adapt to a pro passing offense; both were also injured in college and there were doubts about their ability to return from the their injuries after they struggled some after coming back.

While you can argue that it is unlikely that Losman, McGahee and Evans will become as successful a triumvirate as B.Favre, B.Jackson and M.Harrison because the odds of three young players on any team at any time developing into All-Pro Hall of Fame players are very slim, to say the least, it would hardly be correct to make that argument based on a comparison of the college careers of Losman and Evans with those of Favre and Evans.

While I do agree that the odds of all three becoming the kind of Hall of Famers that Favre, Jackson and Harrison have been are very small, I think that all three have shown flashes of the kind of talent that should make all three solid NFL starters. Whether they develop into All-Pro or Hall of Fame type players will depend on a lot of factors that are impossible to fathom at this point, including the kind of talent that they have around them, the kind of coaching that they get, how hard they work to improve their games, and, perhaps most importantly, whether they stay healthy. IMHO, a big key for all three will be whether the Bills are able to put together a good enough offensive line to give them the opportunity to make plays on a consistent basis--without that, it won't matter how much talent they have or what their abilities are as individuals.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

i think the oline blocks better against the run if we had a qb that had any threat of mobility..

problem is that because drew is a statue.. all other teams have to do is just blitz ALL THE TIME... it eats up the run or the pass.. now typically if you have a qb that can adjust to a blitzing team.. which we dont.. you can burn teams for blitzing with reckless abandon.. like the patriots did..

if a qb could scramble out of the pocket and toss a td over the defenses head.. maybe the blitzing would stop coming on every play and it would make run blocking look a hell of alot better.
You make an excellent point. Let me add to this that, living in the NYC area, I have had a chance to watch the offensive lines that Jim McNally coached when he was with the NY Giants. Three times he was basically asked to construct O-lines from scratch because the NYG management would not pay to keep its O-linemen from year to year and was able to do so (the fourth time, last season, injuries decimated his talent so badly he wasn't able to put a decent line together). On each of those 3 occasions when he was successful, his offensive lines started out slowly, but gradually got better over the course of the season so that, by mid-season they began to be more effective. In all three instances, while the O-line was struggling, it was totally ineffective in one phase of the game: one year they were good at run blocking but were awful at pass protection; another year, they were decent pass blockers, but couldn't run block to save their lives.

I had expected that the Bills O-line might very well follow a similar pattern this season and, when a lot of Bills fans were gushing in the off-season about how good our line would be under Coach McNally, tried to post warnings that it would be at least until a third or halfway into the season before the line would start to come together. With the M.Williams situation in the preseason and then all of the injuries that have occured since then, the development of the Bills O-line has been seriously ******ed--the fact that some of the O-linemen and the starting QB insist on playing as if they are ******ed hasn't helped either. Still, in spite of everything, while they are not run blocking well, the offensive line has improved on its pass-blocking and would at least be considered adequate in that area by this point in the season if Drew Bledsoe was able to sidestep rushers occasionally and opposing defenses could not overwhelm the O-line with blitzes with impunity.

While there's no doubt that the Bills need to reshuffle and improve their offensive line--bringing in high draft pick rookies alone will not be the answer because rookies make mistakes and need time to learn--it would be a whole lot easier for this offensive line to do its job adequately if the Bills had a QB who could move around enough to help them occasionally and had could put enough touch on the ball to burn those blitzing defenses often enough to force them to stop blitzing on every down. When the defense can put 8 men in the box on every play without getting burned for doing so, there is no way that the 5 O-linemen, TE and FB can block all of them--it's just that simple. It isn't necessary to have a running QB or a scrambling QB, but it is essential in today's NFL to have a QB who is mobile enough to be able to roll out, throw on the run, throw the ball short effectively and step away from the pass rush in order to make the offensive line more effective. Unfortunately, Bledsoe has proven that he is incapable of doing any of those things. When Losman does finally come in and start to play, like every rookie, he's going to have to show opposing DCs that he can do enough of those things well enough to make them pay for blitzing him--which they most assuredly will do! If he shows them that he can, the opposing defenses will back off and the O-line will look a lot better in every phase of the game. And, the Bills will have a QB who will be capable of winning games in the NFL.

[shelby]

TD evidently wants to stick with Bledsoe.:curse:

Mark (Clifton Park, NY): How can you justify keeping Drew Bledsoe in as the Bills QB when he has such a terrible win/loss record since he's been here? Is it time to attempt to see if the offense can move with another QB in there?
Tom Donahoe: Our coaches currently feel that our best chance to win is with Drew Bledsoe and even though our entire offense struggled in the Baltimore game, Drew has played good football for us this year up until yesterday's game. Some of the problems we had in the red zone were not strictly Drew. We had some passes that were tipped and some balls that should have been caught, but as generally is the case it will come down to the quarterback. If our coaches felt we had a better option, they certainly would go to it. Right now we feel that Drew gives us the best chance to win.
link (http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=2852)

Perhaps "currently" means until Losman is ready to go?:pray:

[Tatonka]

Lifetimebillsfan..

those are two of the best posts i have read on this board in some time.. similar to the quality that we used to get with Ingtar..

bravo.. keep it up! :up:

[chernobylwraiths]

Lifetimebillsfan..

those are two of the best posts i have read on this board in some time.. similar to the quality that we used to get with Ingtar..

bravo.. keep it up! :up:

LBF is one of the best posters I have ever read on the ESPN board. His only problem was in length (which I didn't mind). Many didn't want to read that much.

I think LBF should write articles for the site. He is insightful and he isn't impulsive when it comes to bashing a player/coach. The man has written books for crying out loud.

LBF! Sign up and submit some articles.

[chernobylwraiths]

TD evidently wants to stick with Bledsoe.:curse:

link (http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=2852)

Perhaps "currently" means until Losman is ready to go?:pray:

I think currently means exactly that.

[Tatonka]

i got the impression that TD was saying that the coaching staff felt drew was the best option right now.. not him.. he doesnt make those decisions.

[Kenny]

While I agree that that it's really hard to judge because none of the three have played enough--or played with an effective offensive line--yet, to base your assessment that it's a long shot for Losman and Evans to become the next Favre and Harrison on their college careers is ridiculous and ignores the facts.

In fact, the college careers of Losman and Evans were very similar in many respects to the careers of Favre and Harrison: Favre played for S. Miss where he frequently had to make something out of nothing because he had limited talent around him and he struggled against better teams on the schedule--Losman played at Tulane where he and Mwelde Moore were the only decent players on a bad team and the two of them had to improvise to make something out of nothing and struggled against better teams; Marvin Harrison was the deep threat in a predominantly rushing attack at Syracuse where he was very successful, but there were questions about his ability to do well in a sophisticated pro passing offense--Lee Evans was the speed receiver in a predominantly rushing attack at Wisconsin where he was very successful, but there were questions about his ability to quickly adapt to a pro passing offense; both were also injured in college and there were doubts about their ability to return from the their injuries after they struggled some after coming back.

While you can argue that it is unlikely that Losman, McGahee and Evans will become as successful a triumvirate as B.Favre, B.Jackson and M.Harrison because the odds of three young players on any team at any time developing into All-Pro Hall of Fame players are very slim, to say the least, it would hardly be correct to make that argument based on a comparison of the college careers of Losman and Evans with those of Favre and Evans.

While I do agree that the odds of all three becoming the kind of Hall of Famers that Favre, Jackson and Harrison have been are very small, I think that all three have shown flashes of the kind of talent that should make all three solid NFL starters. Whether they develop into All-Pro or Hall of Fame type players will depend on a lot of factors that are impossible to fathom at this point, including the kind of talent that they have around them, the kind of coaching that they get, how hard they work to improve their games, and, perhaps most importantly, whether they stay healthy. IMHO, a big key for all three will be whether the Bills are able to put together a good enough offensive line to give them the opportunity to make plays on a consistent basis--without that, it won't matter how much talent they have or what their abilities are as individuals.
I didnt mean to compare the college careers of Farve and Harrison to Losman and Evans.
I just meant that from watching Losman and Evans in college, Im not too sure that they'll develop into the HOF's that are going to be Farve and Harrison.
And when the three: Losman, Evans, and McGahee's name was mentioned, only McGahee was the true 'dominant' force in college, and of the three, he was really the only prospect that looked to become a 'possible' HOF himself.

I'll even admit that I havent seen too much of Evans, so I might retract my comment, but to tell you the truth Im not too sold on Losman yet.
He seems okay, Im just not too sure if he's really as good as everyone is touting him as. I mean is he really that good? Or is it becase Bledsoe sucks that much and we want a change?
Other than Eli and Big Ben (and in that order), I really didnt want to go QB in the first round this year (Im not sold on Rivers either).

[Tatonka]

what college student ever looked like a hall of famer in college?.. typically the ones who do end up being average.. the ones who end up being the hall of famers never look like it.. with a few exceptions.. like manning.. and drew.. :lol:

[Mr. Cynical]

Case in point: AVP broke alot of Marino's records at Pitt. :snicker: