So.....

[mchurchfie]

We only have a number two as our highest draft pick next year. Let's see...
Reed - Bust
Dennehy - Bust
Kelsay - Little Flashes

I wonder what loser we'll pick this year with our number two.:ill:

[TacklingDummy]

Maybe there will be a new GM picking the #2. :clap:

[Ebenezer]

We only have a number two as our highest draft pick next year. Let's see...
Reed - Bust
Dennehy - Bust
Kelsay - Little Flashes

I wonder what loser we'll pick this year with our number two.:ill:
the 2nd round difficulties go back further than TD...here are the drafts from 1980-2000....

Misses (16):
2000 Traveras Tillman
1996 Gabe Northern
1995 Todd Collins
1994 Bucky Brooks
1994 Lonnie Johnson
1993 John Parella
1992 James Patton
1990 Carwell Gardner
1987 Roland Mitchell
1985 Mark Traynewicz
1985 Chris Burkett
1984 Eric Richardson
1982 Matt Kofler
1981 Chris Williams
1981 Byron Franklin
1980 Gene Bradley

Hits (9):
1980 Joe Cribbs
1983 Darryl Talley
1987 Nate Odoms
1988 Thurman Thomas
1991 Phil Hansen
1994 Sam Rogers
1997 Marcellus Wiley
1998 Sam Cowart
1999 Peerless Price

[Ed]

I wouldn't mind another Travis Henry or Aaron Schobel type.

And don't give up on Reed and Kelsay so quickly.

I guess if you were GM our starting lineup would be filled with rookies every year.

[mchurchfie]

I wouldn't mind another Travis Henry or Aaron Schobel type.

And don't give up on Reed and Kelsay so quickly.

I guess if you were GM our starting lineup would be filled with rookies every year.
Two out of about ten isn't a bad percentage. Still waiting on Kelsay, Reed, and Dennehy.:z::hang:

[mchurchfie]

the 2nd round difficulties go back further than TD...here are the drafts from 1980-2000....

Misses (16):
2000 Traveras Tillman
1996 Gabe Northern
1995 Todd Collins
1994 Bucky Brooks
1994 Lonnie Johnson
1993 John Parella
1992 James Patton
1990 Carwell Gardner
1987 Roland Mitchell
1985 Mark Traynewicz
1985 Chris Burkett
1984 Eric Richardson
1982 Matt Kofler
1981 Chris Williams
1981 Byron Franklin
1980 Gene Bradley

Hits (9):
1980 Joe Cribbs
1983 Darryl Talley
1987 Nate Odoms
1988 Thurman Thomas
1991 Phil Hansen
1994 Sam Rogers
1997 Marcellus Wiley
1998 Sam Cowart
1999 Peerless Price

Lonnie Johnson.:ill::hang::wail:

[Ed]

Two out of about ten isn't a bad percentage. Still waiting on Kelsay, Reed, and Dennehy.:z::hang:

Well Donahoe has hit on 2 out of 5 and counting so far, so that's even better. What's your point?

[Ebenezer]

Lonnie Johnson.:ill::hang::wail:
btw, an arguement can be made that Riley, Rogers, Wiley and Price weren't super hits either...2nd rounders are very tough to gauge...

[mchurchfie]

Well Donahoe has hit on 2 out of 5 and counting so far, so that's even better. What's your point?
Take off your rose colored glasses, look at all of his drafts (Mike Williams comes to mind:loser:) and get back to me when you have a more legitimate one than mine. :yap:

[Ebenezer]

Take off your rose colored glasses, look at all of his drafts (Mike Williams comes to mind:loser:) and get back to me when you have a more legitimate one than mine. :yap:
you started with the second round picks...right now, TD is doing better then the Bills have historically with 2nd round picks...

[Dozerdog]

I guess we have exhausted complaining about the present, and are almost finished complaining about the past. Next up- trashing the future.

[mchurchfie]

you started with the second round picks...right now, TD is doing better then the Bills have historically with 2nd round picks...
Not impressed, I'd still take John Butler over his ass in a heartbeat...God rest his soul.:ill::pray:

[Ebenezer]

Not impressed, I'd still take John Butler over his ass in a heartbeat...God rest his soul.:ill::pray:
Butler did more harm is screwing up the salcap then TD has with bad drafts...

[mchurchfie]

True, but at least he fielded winning teams for most of his career with the Bills. TD has given away our No 1 draft picks twice and more of his drafts overall than not have been for the most part been a bust or mediocre at best...especially the high draft pick he wasted on Mike Williams. The future of this team has been put back another couple of years because of his gambles, ego, and hardheadedness.

[finsrclowns]

I guess we have exhausted complaining about the present, and are almost finished complaining about the past. Next up- trashing the future.

I hear suicide is painless. :bad:

[Ebenezer]

True, but at least he fielded winning teams for most of his career with the Bills. TD has given away our No 1 draft picks twice and more of his drafts overall than not have been for the most part been a bust or mediocre at best...especially the high draft pick he wasted on Mike Williams. The future of this team has been put back another couple of years because of his gambles, ego, and hardheadedness.
yup...but his winning teams produced the mess that brought up 3-13, 8-8 and 6-10...this team should not have even been 8-8 that second year....rebuilding after a salcap mess is a 50-50 bet at best...take a look at SF, Dallas and Miami...SF and Dallas have had one good year since their Salcap mess...Miami could have 5 stinkos on their hands...you can free up money and shop and try to restock the shelves but there are so many things that are needed to rebuild a team...had TD made all the right moves? no...is he the only one in this boat? no.

[mchurchfie]

I guess we have exhausted complaining about the present, and are almost finished complaining about the past. Next up- trashing the future.
What future. Excuse me, but we haven't had a competitive team or haven't been to the playoffs in how many years??? I'm just tired of watching the same mistakes and ineptitude week in and week out. TD has had five years and hasn't done **** wiith this team other than to fix the salary cap. He has had some very good picks in the draft and money under the cap to bring in people to make this team good...he has failed for the most part. Just look at which way we are going in the win-loss column. Sorry, but I don't feel like trying to pick out all of the little positives like how good Morman punts while this team backslides more and more everyday. Hate to say it, but Wys was right about TD and most of his moves.:doh: If ya'll else want to piss in the wind and tell us realists how sweet the rain is then have at it. :jam: :dance:

[mchurchfie]

yup...but his winning teams produced the mess that brought up 3-13, 8-8 and 6-10...this team should not have even been 8-8 that second year....rebuilding after a salcap mess is a 50-50 bet at best...take a look at SF, Dallas and Miami...SF and Dallas have had one good year since their Salcap mess...Miami could have 5 stinkos on their hands...you can free up money and shop and try to restock the shelves but there are so many things that are needed to rebuild a team...had TD made all the right moves? no...is he the only one in this boat? no.It's been five years now....the salary cap can't be used for an excuse anymore.

[EDS]

True, but at least he fielded winning teams for most of his career with the Bills. TD has given away our No 1 draft picks twice and more of his drafts overall than not have been for the most part been a bust or mediocre at best...especially the high draft pick he wasted on Mike Williams. The future of this team has been put back another couple of years because of his gambles, ego, and hardheadedness.

Who would you have drafted instead of Mike Williams?

[Ebenezer]

Who would you have drafted instead of Mike Williams?
Roy Williams (s) or McKinney (t)

[Ebenezer]

It's been five years now....the salary cap can't be used for an excuse anymore.
it's been four years and the salcap is a little to blame...i said, has he made all the right moves? not by a long shot...

[Bulldog]

Roy Williams (s) or McKinney (t)

McKinney looked real solid against Freeney(Ind.) and KGB(GB) the past couple of weeks. Freeney had at least 2 sacks and KGB had at least 1 that I saw. I don't think he's much better than Williams.

[ArcticWildMan]

I guess we have exhausted complaining about the present, and are almost finished complaining about the past. Next up- trashing the future.

LOL!!!

[EDS]

Roy Williams (s) or McKinney (t)

Well, hind sight is twenty-twenty I guess. 90% of the posters on this forum bad mouthed McKinnie and were thrilled to have Williams over him. Many people did want Roy Williams, but he has only been the second best safety from that draft.

I went and looked in the forum archives and I think this speaks for itself with respect to Mchurchfie:

mchurchfie08-22-2002, 12:16 PM
As I state the obvious, he is everything that was projected of him and more. Once he gets the little nuances of pass protection and gets the book on the people he has to go against every week he will be a perennial ProBowler for years to come.

[mchurchfie]

Roy Williams (s) or McKinney (t)
:up: :jam:

[mchurchfie]

Well, hind sight is twenty-twenty I guess. 90% of the posters on this forum bad mouthed McKinnie and were thrilled to have Williams over him. Many people did want Roy Williams, but he has only been the second best safety from that draft.

I went and looked in the forum archives and I think this speaks for itself with respect to Mchurchfie:

mchurchfie08-22-2002, 12:16 PM
As I state the obvious, he is everything that was projected of him and more. Once he gets the little nuances of pass protection and gets the book on the people he has to go against every week he will be a perennial ProBowler for years to come.
Whatever...like you say, hindsight is twenty-twenty, right? :crazy: You must have a lot of time on your hands by the way. :geek:

[Ebenezer]

Well, hind sight is twenty-twenty I guess. 90% of the posters on this forum bad mouthed McKinnie and were thrilled to have Williams over him. Many people did want Roy Williams, but he has only been the second best safety from that draft.

I went and looked in the forum archives and I think this speaks for itself with respect to Mchurchfie:

mchurchfie08-22-2002, 12:16 PM
As I state the obvious, he is everything that was projected of him and more. Once he gets the little nuances of pass protection and gets the book on the people he has to go against every week he will be a perennial ProBowler for years to come.
no way to prove it but at the 2002 draft party i wanted Roy Williams...this board wasn't even in existance then.

[ArcticWildMan]

Many people did want Roy Williams, but he has only been the second best safety from that draft.




Second best??? Who is better than him from that draft? Roy Williams is already a Pro-Bowl safety and might even be the best in the league.

[Ebenezer]

Second best??? Who is better than him from that draft? Roy Williams is already a Pro-Bowl safety and might even be the best in the league.
Ed Reed is pretty darn good...

[ArcticWildMan]

Ed Reed is pretty darn good...

Not on the same level as Roy Williams however.

[mchurchfie]

Roy is the man, he would have been the difference in our defense. :jam:

[Ebenezer]

Not on the same level as Roy Williams however.
Reed seems to make a game changing play almost every week...

[ArcticWildMan]

Roy is the man, he would have been the difference in our defense. :jam:

Amen bro!!

Church :hi5: AWM

[ArcticWildMan]

Reed seems to make a game changing play almost every week...


I would have been happy if TD had drafted him. Safety was a huge weakness of ours back then (and still is).

[Ebenezer]

I would have been happy if TD had drafted him. Safety was a huge weakness of ours back then (and still is).
Wire looked promising...

I think I know what is now bothering me about TD...check the new thread...

[Tatonka]

Not on the same level as Roy Williams however.


WHATTTT???

seriously.. please dont tell me that you think roy williams is better than ed reed..

ed reed is EASILY the most dominant Free safety in this league right now..

roy williams has been beat consistently this season.. dallas's pass defense is horrible..

roy williams sure did a lot to slow down terrell owens and company.

i normally agree with you on players.. but you are way off on roy and ed.. i would take reed in a HEARTBEAT over roy..

part of that problem is that roy williams is a strong safety playing FS.. but that is besides the point.. reed is teh best FS in the league.. and that is what we need.. bad.

[Ebenezer]

WHATTTT???

seriously.. please dont tell me that you think roy williams is better than ed reed..

ed reed is EASILY the most dominant Free safety in this league right now..

roy williams has been beat consistently this season.. dallas's pass defense is horrible..

roy williams sure did a lot to slow down terrell owens and company.

i normally agree with you on players.. but you are way off on roy and ed.. i would take reed in a HEARTBEAT over roy..

part of that problem is that roy williams is a strong safety playing FS.. but that is besides the point.. reed is teh best FS in the league.. and that is what we need.. bad.
:hi5:

[Tatonka]

True, but at least he fielded winning teams for most of his career with the Bills.

yeah.. we had a lot of winners.. if 4 time superbowl loser = winner.

[ArcticWildMan]

Ed Reed has a true supporting cast on the Ravens to make him better. Roy Williams does not. Dallas' defense is riddled with holes.

Replace Ed Reed with Roy Williams and you'd see him outperform Ed Reed, IMO.

[Tatonka]

i hate your opinion and will now commence in calling you names for disagreeing, because you are wrong and i am right..




















:jk: :snicker:

[EDS]

I think the point I was trying to illustrate was that the Williams pick seemed like a good one at the time. TD was picking for an area of need and did not reach for the pick - Williams was consistently rated in the top half-dozen prospects heading into the 2002 draft.

Now that Williams sucks you can call his selection a "questionable draft pick" but you could not say that at the time.

And Roy Williams has played fairly poorly this year. If he were the pick, you would be complaining about him right now.

[ArcticWildMan]

i hate your opinion and will now commence in calling you names for disagreeing, because you are wrong and i am right..

:


Good one!! :bighug:

[Ebenezer]

Good one!! :bighug:
he was just trying to make your tracker :cynic:

[ArcticWildMan]

he was just trying to make your tracker :cynic:


That's why I didn't give him a LOL. :; It was close though....

[Tatonka]

fine.. screw your tracker then!

:mad:

[Tatonka]

can i report arctic for saying that i am not good enough for his tracker? that is kind of a backhanded insult against the poster.

and if i report this, will it just go to him?

:ontome:

[ArcticWildMan]

fine.. screw your tracker then!

:mad:


:snicker:

[Ed]

Take off your rose colored glasses, look at all of his drafts (Mike Williams comes to mind:loser:) and get back to me when you have a more legitimate one than mine. :yap:

You brought up the topic of Tom Donahoes 2nd round picks, not his whole career with the Bills. You think Donahoe's picked poorly in the 2nd round with the Bills and I disagree, with the exception of Denney. What he's done in the rest of the draft and with other decisions is another topic.

As for McKinney and Roy Williams, neither are looking that great either. Roy Williams has been pretty poor in coverage this year, and McKinney hasn't been the mountain that he was in college. Not to mention you all would have been throwing a fit if we had drafted McKinney and he held out for half the season. Plus, I remember Roy Williams saying he only wanted to play about 5 years in the NFL, so why waste a #4 pick on him? Also, both turned there noses up to the idea of coming to Buffalo before the draft, so ******* both of them.

[Stewie]

Not on the same level as Roy Williams however.


BS. Ed Reed is a better saftey than Roy Williams any day of the week. Especially Sunday.

[mchurchfie]

yeah.. we had a lot of winners.. if 4 time superbowl loser = winner.
I would take those 4 time SB losers over what we have had in the last 8 years anyday :scratch: ...don't be so bitter about it, that was a long time ago.:pet:

[FTG]

Butler did more harm is screwing up the salcap then TD has with bad drafts...

NOT! At least we made the playoffs a couple times under Butler.

[mchurchfie]

NOT! At least we made the playoffs a couple times under Butler.
Holla!! :jam: :dance: