The REFEREES WON THAT GAME FOR KC

[Mr. Miyagi]

Anyone else saw that game? The pass interference call on Chris Watson was COMPLETELY BOGUS. He never even had a hand on the guy. Turned around to look at the ball and had incidental contact bumping into the receiver. That was 36 yards that led to the winning TD.

Within the next 5 minutes, when we had possession, that KC corner Warfield flatout forearm checked Peerless Price, but no call at all.

WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?

The referees won that game for the Chiefs. They didn't earn it at all. That was Bu!!*****.

[venis2k1]

That was one of the worst performances by ref's i have ever seen.

[The_Philster]

Terry McAulay is the most over-officious ref in the league. He's the one who called pass interference on the Hail Mary in Foxboro in 1998. The thing is, at least Dick Hantak (the former holder of the over-officious title) was at least consistent with his calls.

[Gunzlingr]

The Interference call was a joke, and the lack of calls on the chefs was inexcusable!

[Mr. Miyagi]

Kansas City payroll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Typ0]

We have to be good enough to take them out of the game.

[shelby]

i agree with Typ0...but that being said...did we have the same crew that officiated for NE 2 wks ago?
:eek:

[TacklingDummy]

Kicking Field Goals in the Red Zone is what lost us the game. You gotta put 7 on the board.

[Romes]

Originally posted by TacklingDummy
Kicking Field Goals in the Red Zone is what lost us the game. You gotta put 7 on the board.

Exactly, I don't think we can really complain about the refs because we should have been up to a point where a bad call does not affect our chances of winning. We lost because of bad redzone play.

[WG]

We scored 16 points against a weak, weak K.C. D! As weak as our or weaker supposedly.

If this had been 38-37, then I could see this. But come on, let's wake up here and realize that 16 points on the boards is abysmal considering the ToP that we had in differential and all the rushing and passing yards we had.

Face it, we can move the ball but have struggled for 4 weeks now, and not always against decent defenses, to even put any points on the boards. We're averaging less than 16 points per game here and it's not the refs fault.

As usualy, not one single part of the team showed up for all 4 Qs! Penalties out the wazoo, mostly deserved! More coaching issues!

Playoffs will not happen. We'll be lucky to win more than two more games from now 'til the end of the season. At this rate, @ G.B., @ N.E., and S.D. even at home will be losses. IMO there's no way that we will win @ Jets, and both Miami and Cincy at home. It just isn't going to happen.

If we hit 8-8 then we should all be very happy that we didn't go 7-9.

Face it, it's time to start addressing some questions and issues so that we come out running at the beginning of next season.

Henry played well.
The secondary played fairly well w/ some lapses.
The DL played fairly well thru 3 Qs and fair to poor in the 4th.
STs played fairly well.

Bledsoe was average.
Moulds/Price average.

LBs poor.

OL well.

We are struggling mightily on offense. The question is "what's wrong" and "how can we fix it!"

As usual, Gilbride doesn't run Henry when we need the yardage the most in the 4th Q. I don't know about y'all, but I'm gettin' a little miffed at Gilbride for not running Henry when he's running like the hottest runner playing on Sunday. Especially when it costs us the game.

If he doesn't know how to effectively utilize the running game, then let's find an O.C. that does! Unbelieveable.

BTW, that last pick was a HORRIBLE toss by Drew. Totally underthrown!

The refs didn't blow this game for us, we did!

16 points leaves little room for blaming anyone but the offense, the O.C., or the rest of the coaching somehow.

Refs my left stone!

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by shelby
i agree with Typ0...but that being said...did we have the same crew that officiated for NE 2 wks ago?
:eek:

Our officiating crew today:
Referee: Terry McAulay (77)
Line Judge: Byron Boston (18)
Field Judge: Scott Steenson (88) Umpire: Ed Coukart (71)
Side Judge: Tommy Moore (60)
Replay Official: Gary Lane Head Linesman: Jerry Bergman (91)
Back Judge: Billy Smith (2 )

having Byron Boston scares me...he was the guy out of position for the throwback in Tennessee

our officiating crew 2 weeks ago:
Referee: Dick Hantak (105)
Line Judge: Darryll Lewis (130)
Field Judge: Jim Saracino (58) Umpire: Carl Madsen (92)
Side Judge: Mike Weatherford (116)
Replay Official: Al Hynes Head Linesman: George Hayward (54)
Back Judge: Don Dorkowski (113)

kinda funny.....we went from the formerly most over-officious ref in the league in Dick Hantak to the new title-holder in Terry McAulay

[tomohawk4949]

the refs won the game???!!! i guees that damn ref threw a pick to Eric Warfield...i guees that ref ran wild all over your D in the forth Quarter....and the ref was they guy who let trent green run for the winning touchdown. BILLS LOST THE GAME>>>not the refs...there were a few bad calls but there always is. seriosly guys i thought bills fans were better than this.

[WG]

I thought that the two penalties on the game-winning drive were called properly. Watson clearly interfered w/ Kennison and Robinson very clearly had held Holmes, both prior to the ball getting there.

Watson simply wasn't looking and ran into Kennison. He had gotten burned and was 2-3 yards behind him. He tried to make up that ground as the ball was underway. He made a sorry move to make it look good, but a day late and a dollar short. He clearly affected Kennison's catching that ball.

If there was a penalty that I thought was silly, it was that roughing the passer penalty on Edwards early in the 3rd Q to completely change the field position for the rest of the half. That was bogus, but then again, that's what the officials seem to be calling this season.

[The_Philster]

Sorry, Wys....but that was clearly incidental contact between Watson and Kennison. There are only two officiating crews that would call that...McAulay's and Hantak's....the two most heavy-handed crews in the game.

[don137]

I'm guessing the calls most Bills fans are upset about is the interference call to Watson and the non-call when Moulds was interferred with the play before the interception. I agree the call on Watson was a bad call and Warfield clearly interferred with Moulds. Even on sportcenter they talked about the Watson penalty being a bad call BUT Buffalo had there chances to win and they didn't. The way our defense played in KC's last drive I feel KC could of scored if they wanted. When it came to crunch time the D did not stand up. Most of the calls were deserved and KC was the beneficiary of bad officiating but that is not why we lost the game. Bad red-zone offense, bad discipline and our defense letting up in the 4th quarter is why we lost.

I believe this was the officiating crew that officiated the Music City Miracle.

[The_Philster]

No...it wasn't, don. Byron Boston was there that game.....he was the fool who wasn't in position when that play happened. But the referee was Phil Luckett. I have no idea about the rest of the officials. But playoff refs aren't in their regular crews. They choose the best and most highly-graded refs to work the playoff games.

[don137]

Your correct Phil. I recall Boston as the side judge who called it a clean lateral by Wycheck...

[The_Philster]

And Boston was 5 yards behind the play. Had he been on the line of the play, there would have been no doubt about the call. As it was called, it was questionable. Luckett's gotten a lot of flak over the years and some of it was deserved, but on that play, he only did what he could. The only person responsible for that call was Boston. Given the camera angles he had, there was NO way Luckett could overturn the call that was made....no matter what the call was.

[OpIv37]

Buffalo had their chances and couldn't capitalize- the point is that this team isn't good enough to overcome their own mistakes AND poor officiating. The Bills beat the Chiefs for 3 and a half quarters despite their mistakes- they only fell apart after multiple bad calls by the refs.

The officiating will never be perfect but it should at least be consistent, and the refs were clearly calling more pass interference on Buffalo than they were on KC. I won't go so far as to say that the refs cost the Bills the game- you have to show up for all 4 quarters. However, Buffalo shouldn't have to count the refs among their enemies- it's one thing to figure out how to shut down the opposing offense, but no game plan can overcome bad 4th quarter calls.

[BillsMan80]

Wys, bull**** that was PI on Watson. Watson was step for step with Kennison, went up to play the ball, and bumped into him. PI my ass. The Robinson play, yes, but Watson, hell no. That gave KC life.

[Valerie]

Everyone in the bar yesterday was complaining about the bad calls by the refs. :down: A few of the calls were obviously bad calls. Still, I've never seen so many penalities by the Bills. Even if some of the calls were bad, the Bills still killed themselves with penalities. Not only were they playing against the Chief's but they were playing against themselves too.

[LtBillsFan66]

Wys. Watson was in good position and played that one well. The Bball was underthrown, so Watson was between the receiver and the ball when the receiver tried to make the play on the ball. The key to why it shouldn't have been called is that Watson did turn back and was facing the ball when there was contact. I can see why the flag was thrown. But if it wouldn't have been if the refs weren't flag happy.

[BillsMan80]

The point of the matter is Wys, Questionable calls should not decide the game. Let the players decide the damn game. Not on bull**** calls like Watson's PI.

[WG]

Originally posted by BillsMan80
Wys, bull**** that was PI on Watson. Watson was step for step with Kennison, went up to play the ball, and bumped into him. PI my ass. The Robinson play, yes, but Watson, hell no. That gave KC life.

Sorry 80! But Watson was easily, easily two steps behind Kennison when he realized the ball was coming that way. He had absolutely no clue where that ball was as it was arriving at the two of them! Why do you think he had to gain that ground and then ran into Kennison? The ball was not that underthrown. Watson got schooled, face it. Again BTW.

He ran into Kennison albeit very slightly and tried to turn around and look for the ball although he did it a fraction of a second too late. Look at the replay on tape if you have it.

Now whether the refs missed some calls against the Chief CBs I don't know. I didn't see any blatant missed calls though.

This stuff about it not having been PI on Watson is only from a "Bills 'pie-in-the-sky'" perspective!

Same w/ Robinson. You gonna tell me that was bogus too? He had his arm around Holmes like a seat belt.

I've certainly blamed the officials before, and they really, really suck in this league. But those two calls, both on the last drive, were appropriate. Like it or not.

[OpIv37]

I agree with BillsFanOne- Watson has been a weak link in our secondary but he played fairly well yesterday and got screwed on that call. He was looking back for the ball- the receiver stopped.
The rule is the DB is allowed to play the ball. The refs need to at least be consistent- they can't flag Watson for that but not call KC's DB's when they stick Moulds straight up along the sidelines.

[WG]

That should have been yet another perfectly clear indication that we need some new CBs for next year. Two of them. One potential starter and a solid CB who is reliable in dime packages.

[Captain gameboy]

That is exactly what happened BF1. The consequence of calling that penalty is that the league is telling teams they will be rewarded by lousy execution. I made this same comment last year. If a ball is underthrown and the contact is forced by either the receiver coming back or even slowing down, as long as the DB has his eye on the ball and playing the ball and not just hitting the receiver, there should be no flag. The lesson to QB's is-just underthrow and have your receiver force contact-you'll get a flag. It's shicken slop, and it happens too often. Absolutely no way that call is made in the playoffs, and it shouldn't have been made yesterday.

[OpIv37]

The call on Robinson could have gone either way. But all the calls that could have gone either way in that game went in favor of the Chiefs.

[WG]

Originally posted by The_Philster
Sorry, Wys....but that was clearly incidental contact between Watson and Kennison. There are only two officiating crews that would call that...McAulay's and Hantak's....the two most heavy-handed crews in the game.

It would have been incidental if Watson had been w/ Kennison to begin with. Not "incidentally" running into him as he was trying to make up a 2 yard gap between him and Kennison. He didn't even look for the ball until the last half-a-second or so. How on earth can it be incidental when one CB isn't even looking for the ball? Even the couple of guys I was with said it was a light, but good call. They're impartial as Eagles fans.

Let's face it, Watson has issues. He's played better over the past few weeks, but that really isn't saying much. He needs to be replaced for next season. He can be on the roster, but only as a 5th CB IMO. We need a reliable CB(s) for multiple WR sets. Watson isn't that CB.

[Captain gameboy]

Additionally, I swear these refs are getting the NBA and MLB bandwagon disease. A good shooter gets every call in the NBA, regardless of validity. A good pitcher or hitter gets almost every close call in MLB, and appropriate to our cause, if you're Chris Watson and there's any contact at all, you're getting flagged. It's just wrong.

[OpIv37]

I disagree with Wys about the call- I think the refs blew it. But I agree with him about Watson- he needs to go. He's been consistently beat all year and I think gameboy has a point about the bandwagon disease (although it certainly didn't work in Moulds' favor on the other side of the ball- anyone want to venture a guess as to the significance of that?).

[WG]

Look, if this game was lost on a play like that in a 34-33 shootout, then fine. But I'm not gonna blame the officials in a judgment call that I thought wasn't all that off, or even for one that was for that matter, when in fact we only had 16 points on the board in only 4 trips to the red zone in this game.

Let's face it, the Chiefs' D SUCKS!!! All I've heard over the past 2 months is what a high-powered O we have. Any suggestion to the contrary was met w/ ultimate hostility. Well, if we're so daggoned good, then how come we can't seem to score into the 20s or much more than that in Detroit's case?

Blaming the refs for such losses shows a complete lack of grace. We got dusted b/c Gilbride decided that Henry's 5.3 YPC weren't enough to trust him w/ the ball w/ over 4 minutes remaining and us down by a point. Instead, as has been the usual routine, he decides, regardless of reality or the reason for success in the game up to that point, that all of a sudden passing the ball when it otherwise hasn't been all that tremendously successful, is the answer.

That's what caused us to lose this game. 16 points is pathetic against the Chiefs. What's next? A 10 point performance against the Jets next week?

All I'm hearing is about what a genious Gilbride is! How marvelous our passing game is.

Well! Where has it been down the stretch over the past 4 weeks as we've barely moved the ball with it? How come such a "high-powered" offense can only amass 7 points per game in TDs?

Something's gonna have to change, and quickly, or it'll be painfully obvious that this offense, for one reason or another, has some serious issues. I've been tellin' ya that it's Gilbride. Yet everyone still says he's some sort of 'mastermind." Well, I just didn't see anything but a fool yesterday inasmuch as Gilbride goes. Again!

But to blame the refs for this loss is unacceptable. Some games yes. But just as with injuries, bad calls are a part of the game. This wasn't a "Henry Jones/Ben Coates" call or anything approaching that. I realize that we've been ricked before by officiating, and I'm no happier about NFL officiating than any of you. But this loss was largely and almost entirely Gilbride's fault.

If we had simply run Henry and taken several minutes off the clock. Gained 30 or so yards that up until that point we hadn't had a whole lot of difficulty gaining by using Henry, then we would have put in a decent FG from a medium range. I guess that passing the football means more to KG than winning games does. I have no other explanation as to why he makes such inane decisions.

[WG]

Agree or disagree on the call, I'll give that it wasn't the strongest call. But where I'm not gonna bend and where there is plain proof for anyone w/ the game tape is that Watson clearly had been burned. Bad enough such that if that ball is thrown in stride, then it's a TD. Watson isn't fast enough to catch Kennison.

[LtBillsFan66]

It was a bad call wys. And that is that. Yes, we shouldn't have been in that position, but that doesn't excuse the bad call. There are bad calls for and against us. There are bad calls in a lot of games. I call them when I see them. This one was a bad call!

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Agree or disagree on the call, I'll give that it wasn't the strongest call. But where I'm not gonna bend and where there is plain proof for anyone w/ the game tape is that Watson clearly had been burned. Bad enough such that if that ball is thrown in stride, then it's a TD. Watson isn't fast enough to catch Kennison.

He would have been burned if the pass wasn't underthrown. You see these types of playes a lot in the endzone. And it is almost never called interference IF the defender is looking back at the ball.

[WG]

I'll tell ya what was a HORRIBLE call, FAR worse than the Watson call; was the RTP call on Edwards. What nonsense that was! But hey, that's just the way the NFL is calling RTP this season. It wasn't us, it's everyone and I've seen several dozen such calls so far this season if I've seen one.

That call gave K.C. a first down when it would have been 4th and 7 from their own 12. Instead, the Chiefs ran it down and punted from our 43 to start us at our own 20. That play was far more instrumental in changing the outcome of this game than a questionable, at best, PI call on a 1st and 10 at K.C.'s own 45.

To insist that we would have held them if it were 2nd and 10 given our track record borders on the ridiculous.

[OpIv37]

Wys is wrong about the call but he's right about the game- the call cost the Bills the game but they never should have been in that position to begin with.

Kicking FG's from the red zone against a hapless Chiefs D isn't going to win any games. I don't know why they didn't try to punch it in with Henry or at least go for it on 4th down- the Bills D had Holmes contained for most of the game. And Gilbride blew it on the Bills last offensive drive- they had good field position and plenty of time but they threw instead of using Henry.

[WG]

Originally posted by BillsFanOne


He would have been burned if the pass wasn't underthrown. You see these types of playes a lot in the endzone. And it is almost never called interference IF the defender is looking back at the ball.

It wasn't a bad call. Watson didn't look for the ball until the very last second. He had no idea where it was prior to that. If he had turned his head a full second earlier, then I'd agree w/ you 100%. But Watson simply isn't that good. Mental mistakes, coverage blunders!

Besides, see my last post above. That poor call shouldn't have been the reason for our losing the game by any stretch. If that had been 3rd and long, then perhaps I could see it. But not on a drive where K.C. seemed to be moving the ball well enough otherwise.

Argue if you will, but all I'm saying is that it's silly to try and pin the outcome of this game on the officials. That's all.

[LtBillsFan66]

I think a lot of the roughing the passer calls are lame, but that is one call they seem to be consistant with.

[Captain gameboy]

I'm not blamiong the game on that call, I'm just calling that one specific call BS. That call is part of a bigger issue that bothers me. THere's no secret that the NFL wants wide open passing games for fan reasons. I've got no problem with that. But, when they make it impossible for a DB to play the position, it undermines the game, and I'm sick of it. Pass interference calls are among the most egregious penalties in all sports. They better decide what constitutes the penalty, and get consistent on who and when they call it. Again, no way that call is made in the playoffs or against a name CB. Really irritates me when I think someone isn't getting a fair shot, and I don't think Watson is. I fully agree what he was two steps beat when the ball was released, but that doesn't matter one tiny bit. He played it about as well as you can and he got screwed.

[clumping platelets]

14 penalties and in the last 2 posts, I agree that those 2 penalties were bogus! Now we're down to 12 penalties ;)

I'm more concerned with the lack of calls vs. the Chiefs. If we were dominating for 3 qtrs, then why weren't the Chiefs not committing penalties. I will describe 3 penalties:

1) On Moulds just before the INT: That was an illegal contact, much more egregious than the one called on Robinson early in the game. (Now down to 11 penalties) Result would have been a 1st down.....outcome ?

#2)4-1-BUF10 (7:01) P. Holmes up the middle to BUF 8 for 2 yards ...LOT Roaf grabbed Schobel and yanked him away from making the tackle. That, by definition, is holding. It was blatant and not called. result would have been a 4th & 11 at the Bills 20.....KC later scored the GW TD on this same drive as the bogus pass-interference call. KC could have gone for it, but with the score 16-10 at the time, most likely would have kicked a FG, but Bills still up 16-13 with more than 6 minutes left.

#3) 1-10-KC15 (4:00) T. Henry left end to KC 10 for 5 yards (M. Maslowski, S. Harts).
2-5-KC10 (3:18) D. Bledsoe pass incomplete to E. Moulds (M. Maslowski)
3-5-KC10 (3:14) D. Bledsoe pass to T. Henry to KC 9 for 1 yard (M. Maslowski).
4-4-KC9 (3:14) M. Hollis 27 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-D. Moore, Holder-B. Moorman

On the 2nd down pass.....Riemersma was being held and illegal contact at the goalline. It was blatant from the endzone camera. NO CALL! Result would have been 1st & goal from the 5 and still a chance at a TD

Once I review the game tape, I'm sure there are a few other obvious NO CALLS.

[Captain gameboy]

Home cookin' Clump. That good ole home cookin'.

[WG]

I'm sure there were too Clump. It's in K.C. and we've got to expect that there will be a call or two. There was also one that I pointed out to my bud while watching the game that should have been called against us yet wasn't. He agreed. I was glad that it wasn't but I was waiting for a flag. I'm sure if we review the game tape from a Chiefs' perspective we might find a call or two or more that wasn't called their way either.

I won't disagree that overall we had more calls go against us that shouldn't have, or that we didn't get a call or two or more. But the bottom line is that if we had simply run the ball on that last drive, there is little question in my mind that we would first of all not have thrown a pick to end the game for us. And secondly, that we easily could have gained the 30+ yards in over 4 minutes, put Hollis in a good position high-percentage range, or even scored a TD, while taking most of that 4:45 off of the clock. And even if Price does catch the ball for a TD, the Chiefs still have over 4 minutes courtesy of poor clock management yet again, to try and come back down and score. With the way they were playing and we were playing there's nothing to suggest that that would not have happened.

We didn't do that and that had absolutely nothing to do w/ the officiating. Nothing at all. That pass by Bledsoe wasn't PI on Warfield. Was it? It was a poorly thrown, underthrown pass, in a situation in which we shouldn't have been throwing the ball to begin with for several reasons already stated.

Idiocy is what lost us this game, not the officiating. It was in our hands and totally within our control right up until Drew's INT. To suggest otherwise is not to be honest about the situation.

And if Gilbride doesn't feel comfortable that he can run the ball from our own 45 w/ 4:45 left on the clock for either a time-consuming drive ending up in a TD or FG, then he simply shouldn't be an O.C. He should simply admit to everyone that his best days are long past and quietly step down after this season.

This game is on Gilbride!!

[Earthquake Enyart]

I don't blame em for taking the deep shot with Price at the end there. He was open, the ball was just underthrown.

At real speed, the PI on Watson looked like faceguarding. He didn't turn his head back until it was too late. Borderline call, but I see why they made it.

The most disconcerting thing for me was that after the INT, the Bills couldn't stop the Chiefs from running out the clock with 8 men in the box. Fletcher missed at least 3 tackles during that drive. He misses more than he makes.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
I'll tell ya what was a HORRIBLE call, FAR worse than the Watson call; was the RTP call on Edwards. What nonsense that was! But hey, that's just the way the NFL is calling RTP this season. It wasn't us, it's everyone and I've seen several dozen such calls so far this season if I've seen one.

That call gave K.C. a first down when it would have been 4th and 7 from their own 12. Instead, the Chiefs ran it down and punted from our 43 to start us at our own 20. That play was far more instrumental in changing the outcome of this game than a questionable, at best, PI call on a 1st and 10 at K.C.'s own 45.

To insist that we would have held them if it were 2nd and 10 given our track record borders on the ridiculous.

I'm still in disagreement with you on the Watson cal but you're absolutely right on the Edwards call. He barely touched the guy JUST after the ball was released. I don't know if he had the ability to stop in time there.

[Mad Bomber]

Let's face it...if you're not wearing a Pats uni, you're not gonna get the calls (see avatar for details)

[vabillsfan]

Want to win the game. SCORE MORE POINTS.

End of debate.