Another Donahoe Mistake?

[BillsFever21]

I realize it's still way too early to pass judgement on how the careers of these guys will turn out but going by this years play it looks like we might've missed out on someone better.

I'm talking about Lee Evans and Michael Clayton. Evans has shown some flashes and has big play capability but I don't see him as a #1 stud who will carry the load all season long and put up 80+ receptions on a consistent basis.

Clayton has been in a terrible offense and has caught balls from 3 different QB's this year but he still has better numbers then our own Eric Moulds.

Clayton- 52-751, 3 TD's

* Last 4 games- 21-308, 2 TD's

Evans- 19-374, 2 TD's

* Last 4 games- 9-126, 1 TD

Moulds- 55-679, 4 TD's

* Last 4 games- 18-188, 1 TD

The next 10 years is still a mystery but this year Clayton has been a force up till this point and he's also a year younger then Evans.

Moulds-

[tampabay25690]

I realize it's still way too early to pass judgement on how the careers of these guys will turn out but going by this years play it looks like we might've missed out on someone better.

I'm talking about Lee Evans and Michael Clayton. Evans has shown some flashes and has big play capability but I don't see him as a #1 stud who will carry the load all season long and put up 80+ receptions on a consistent basis.

Clayton has been in a terrible offense and has caught balls from 3 different QB's this year but he still has better numbers then our own Eric Moulds.

Clayton- 52-751, 3 TD's

* Last 4 games- 21-308, 2 TD's

Evans- 19-374, 2 TD's

* Last 4 games- 9-126, 1 TD

Moulds- 55-679, 4 TD's

* Last 4 games- 18-188, 1 TD

The next 10 years is still a mystery but this year Clayton has been a force up till this point and he's also a year younger then Evans.

Moulds-

So I guess we have to be mind readers also..... Evans and CLayton are 2 different WR's. I know that best I see Clayton play every Sun in Tampa, and also check the stats of the BUCS offense compared to the BILLS..... Evans has the speed and deep threat and Clayton has the possession that the BUCS offense needs.....I said something in the early part of the season about CLAYTON.......You never know how a player will be till the dress in the NFL. EVANS will be a good one

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

That's it, cut Evans!!!!!!

[venis2k1]

josh reed, Eric Moulds, Clayton, sounds like the slowest WR core in the NFL to me.

[SABURZFAN]

the Drewhaters will blame it on bledsoe.

[Jan Reimers]

Again, it's way too early to judge either Evans or Clayton. Evans has a great combination of speed, hands and attitude. Moulds is the number 1 guy right now, but I look for Evans to blossom into a big time WR next year, as the young guns - Losman, McGahee and Evans - take over this offense.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

No way, it's not too early, let's lynch him now!!!!

[venis2k1]

and while we are on this topic whats the deal with Tim Euhus, wasted draft pick, his numbers suck this year :crazy:

[Marvelous]

Evans was just flat out not a good pick for us. We should have traded down for Lousman and had a extra pick and had this years pick. Whoever thought we would be better then 8-8 this year was dreaming, hoping is fine but realistic no way. I like Evans but i agree he just don't strike me as anything great. But he could bulk up and be something perhaps. I like Aikin's play lately and i think he has a future.

[SABURZFAN]

Evans was just flat out not a good pick for us.


i agree.especially in a draft where we could have beefed up both sides of the line.

[Jan Reimers]

I notice that most Zoners who were blasting the McGahee pick from Day 1 are now pretty quiet.

I would expect that by this time next season, the Evans/Losman and every-other-young-player-who-was-not-an-immediate-superstar bashers will be relatively quiet as well.

I'm not real patient myself, but there are some here who condemn every move and every player before there is enough evidence to form ANY rational conclusion.

[Philagape]

Is it too early to condemn next year's top draft pick as a bust? After all, he hasn't done anything for us yet.

:rolleyes:

[ZacGriffi~82]

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

[Marvelous]

I didn't say bust i just disagree with the pick.

[Michael82]

Donahoe was very interested in Clayton. They brought him in for a visit and talked with him for a while. Lee Evans was picked because he was what they were missing. He's just not getting used properly. I haven't seen him drop any(many) passes at all. Bledsoe just isn't finding him open downfield. I believe he will be a big part of the offense next year and he was the receiver trhe Bills needed. They needed speed, not a possession receiver, a speed receiver to compliment Moulds. I also feel that we might have Moulds' replacement on the team. I know people are going to laugh, but Sam Aiken looks huge. He's been working out with Moulds and once they get him more involved in the offense, you will see it. Evans is a great deep threat to match the posession receiver in Moulds or aiken. :up:

[Michael82]

BTW...anyone who declares ANY of the 2004 picks busts already, are MORONS and needs to :stfu: right now! :shakeno:

[Jayhawk]

Btw let's already say that the picks next year are busts while we are at it. It's too damn early. Evans is just a rookie, and if in case you forgot this is his third year back from a pretty bad leg injury. Give him a year. Look what McGahee has done in a year.

[Michael82]

Btw let's already say that the picks next year are busts while we are at it. It's too damn early. Evans is just a rookie, and if in case you forgot this is his third year back from a pretty bad leg injury. Give him a year. Look what McGahee has done in a year.
:bf1:

[nodnarb]

that's like saying 90% of rookie RBs are better than faulk because they had better rookie seasons.

First of all, draft choices are not "donahoe mistakes" He's merely the project manager of the draft process. His main opinion man is tom modrak. Before they draft a player, Donahoe asks modrak and his head coach, AND the scouts, AND John Guy, who they think helps the team the most. They give them their answer, and phones in the picks accordingly.

You can say a "Bills mistake" if it's applicable, but not a "donahoe mistake".

Secondly, in 5 years I'll take any bet that Evans is considered the better receiver over Clayton, and I recognize that clayton is exceptional. The only catch is they both have to be healthy in that span to have had a similar amount of opportunity. Drew has not clicked yet with LEE, and Drew has not exactly been efficient getting the ball out deep until just recently. Accordingly, Evans' stats have been getting better since that first Jets game. But he was invisible for about 4 or 5 games because our entire offense was invisible. Don't start drawing conclusions about one guy because our entire offense has been lackluster.

Tampa has better offensive stats than us right now. By the end of the season we'll pull closer or past htem, but clayton is enjoying #1 receiver status as a rookie. Lee went from #3 to #2 and won't get past that until he surpasses Moulds.

[Crisis]

Clayton hasn't been playing in the conditions Lee has @ the Ralph too. Alot of the games we've played in have been with high winds, and no passing game from either side.

[unpaid_bills]

Way too early to say who will be the better WR. Lee Evans will be a Pro-Bowl WR and the main main here in a years.

[LVGrown]

I totally agree on the Aiken part ... EVERYBODY compares Aiken to Moulds so maybe he will be a strong number 2 to Evans who has unlimited upisde. Have a feeling Moulds wont be back next season or should I say I dont feel he should be back next season. Too much money and we need trench help.

Erin


They needed speed, not a possession receiver, a speed receiver to compliment Moulds. I also feel that we might have Moulds' replacement on the team. I know people are going to laugh, but Sam Aiken looks huge. He's been working out with Moulds and once they get him more involved in the offense, you will see it. Evans is a great deep threat to match the posession receiver in Moulds or aiken. :up:

[BillsFever21]

Where in this post did I ever say Evans is a bust? I just pointed out the kind of season Clayton is having and bringing up a topic to discuss on.

Some of you are way to homeristic and touchy when it comes to one of our players. If you don't say the guy is the greatest then they act like you're saying they are useless and sucks ass.

[Marvelous]

Billsfever,Do you think that Evans is good but we shoulda went a different direction in the draft?

[Bills 4 life]

This post is a WASTE OF TIME!

[Marvelous]

I don't think it is. I've been upset about the pick of Lee Evans th eseond we traded and got Lousman. Even more so when we were 0-4!!! Evans is not a bust and if he is we won't know for 2 more seasons. But We didn't need Evans as much as people think/thought. We needed JP but imo we coulda got a wr with athe 2nd or 3rd OR the extra pick we got from trading down had we traded down...

Evans- is good and could be awesome
We screwed up next years draft by giving up a 1st for Lousman/Evans.

It's very clear to me.

[Kenny]

I don't think it is. I've been upset about the pick of Lee Evans th eseond we traded and got Lousman. Even more so when we were 0-4!!! Evans is not a bust and if he is we won't know for 2 more seasons. But We didn't need Evans as much as people think/thought. We needed JP but imo we coulda got a wr with athe 2nd or 3rd OR the extra pick we got from trading down had we traded down...

Evans- is good and could be awesome
We screwed up next years draft by giving up a 1st for Lousman/Evans.

It's very clear to me.
Completely agree with you here. Evans will probably be a good WR (although Im not sure if he'll amount to anything more than a great #2). I was a little upset when we drafted him, I mean do you guys really think he's worth a #11?

The thing I really dont get with the whole draft... Is if we were willing to really give up alot of picks for a QB, why not just (as Sippio said) just draft a WR in the second or thrid round (we could of got Colbert or Jenkins), and really make a push for Ben Roethlishberger?

Though I dont think we did 'that' bad in the draft, I do think it could of been much better done.

[Crisis]

We got an extra pick in a strong draft and gave away one in a weak draft. Not too bad imo.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

Btw let's already say that the picks next year are busts while we are at it. It's too damn early. Evans is just a rookie, and if in case you forgot this is his third year back from a pretty bad leg injury. Give him a year. Look what McGahee has done in a year.


No way, as soon as the pick is made we should cut the draft pick!!!!

[Throne Logic]

Is it too early to condemn next year's top draft pick as a bust? After all, he hasn't done anything for us yet.

:rolleyes:

Nice. Well said.

[DraftBoy]

Completely agree with you here. Evans will probably be a good WR (although Im not sure if he'll amount to anything more than a great #2). I was a little upset when we drafted him, I mean do you guys really think he's worth a #11?

The thing I really dont get with the whole draft... Is if we were willing to really give up alot of picks for a QB, why not just (as Sippio said) just draft a WR in the second or thrid round (we could of got Colbert or Jenkins), and really make a push for Ben Roethlishberger?

Though I dont think we did 'that' bad in the draft, I do think it could of been much better done.

Our offense has been horrendous since the loss of Peerless and still has been at times this season but yet at other times we have been successfully able to spread the D's deep allowing for McGahee to run wild and Moulds to work underneath. Evans has been our homerun threat and has produced wonderfully in those situations, I love this pick bc this offense now has a capable #2. Who was gonna play this posistion next season??? Aiken? I think we may have had the slowest WR core in the NFL if you think that. This is a weak draft class overall. Lots of projects and possible late round gems but not much upfront to offer, if some of you think by losing a pick in this draft it at all hinders us your wrong. The only posistions that are deep are DE and DT. There is really only one true OT worth a top pick in Alex Barron and I doubt we will see many teams earger to drop picks to move up in this week class. As for Losman Id take him over any QB in the entire draft right now. He was well worth our pick (10-15). Also if your reffering to Micheal Jenkins he went in round 1 not 2 or 3. I believe we tried to move up for Big Ben but Pitt wasnt budging. Who in last years draft would you of rather of had based purerly on what we had known at #11 pick?? Im just wondering? Dont base this on what the player has done this season but take the mindset of what we had known.

[Kenny]

Our offense has been horrendous since the loss of Peerless and still has been at times this season but yet at other times we have been successfully able to spread the D's deep allowing for McGahee to run wild and Moulds to work underneath. Evans has been our homerun threat and has produced wonderfully in those situations, I love this pick bc this offense now has a capable #2. Who was gonna play this posistion next season??? Aiken? I think we may have had the slowest WR core in the NFL if you think that. This is a weak draft class overall. Lots of projects and possible late round gems but not much upfront to offer, if some of you think by losing a pick in this draft it at all hinders us your wrong. The only posistions that are deep are DE and DT. There is really only one true OT worth a top pick in Alex Barron and I doubt we will see many teams earger to drop picks to move up in this week class. As for Losman Id take him over any QB in the entire draft right now. He was well worth our pick (10-15). Also if your reffering to Micheal Jenkins he went in round 1 not 2 or 3. I believe we tried to move up for Big Ben but Pitt wasnt budging. Who in last years draft would you of rather of had based purerly on what we had known at #11 pick?? Im just wondering? Dont base this on what the player has done this season but take the mindset of what we had known.It's definately a weak QB class, but to say that the entire draft class is weak is wrong. There's alot of depth in this draft, whether it be RB, to linebackers, to even defensive backs.
As for the OT, I doubt Barron is going to be top OT picked... IMO it'll definately be Jamaal Brown from the Sooners. Either way, those two will be first round picks (Marcus McNeil has a pretty good chance at being drafted in the first too).

As for the QB position, Im not too sold on Losman... yet. But to say that he's better than every single QB that might be coming out next year isnt right. Perhaps you forgot about Aaron Rodgers?
Honestly, I just dont see what the big 'hype' about Losman is from some of you guys. To me he just looks like a guy with a good arm, who likes to run alot.
Now I understand that my post here might sound like I dont like our guys... that's not the case. Im just not a homer.

As for Evans, I just dont see him as our homerun threat this year. He's been pretty inconsistent so far, and I dont think he's made much of a difference. IMO, our offense has been all McGahee... His ability to bounce to the outside, break tackles, and make yards out of nothing, has been our only real threat on offense this year.
That, and our line has started to show up. We're nowhere near the leagues best, but we're nowhere near the worst either (I mean other than the Raiders and Ravens games, can you honestly say that our line played that bad?)

BTW, you said our offense has been horrendous since PP left. Guess what? Our offense was horrendous when PP was still here. Remember the second half of the 2002 season? Now that Evans is here, there really hasnt been much difference, other than (I'll mention it again) McGahee being able to move our offense.

A bit off topic, but I dont think our WRs were ever the problem... At the risk of sounding like a DB basher, I've always felt the root of our problems have always been at the QB position.

Now Im not going to judge Evans solely on his performance this year, but I just didnt and still dont see the need for spending our 11th pick on a WR of Evan's size and talent. Roy and Reggie who IMO were the only WRs worthy of a pick that high, were both long gone, and if Donohoe was already set at getting a QB in the first round, why not try harder to pick ahead of the Steelers? Possibly two first rounders? and then go for a WR in the second round?

[Billsouth]

josh reed, Eric Moulds, Clayton, sounds like the slowest WR core in the NFL to me.


BINGO!! that is the exact reason why we did not choose clayton. also, the numbers are skewed because clayton was basically tb's only receiver for a significant portion of the season so far, whereas evans did not even start until after the season already started.

i think evans has had a very good year. he looks fast, runs good routes and has great hands.

quite frankly, aiken is just as good as clayton and is of a similar mold (i.e. possession receiver)

[justasportsfan]

Moulds was a mistake too. He didn't develop until his 3rd season. We should've cut him after his 2nd year.


Lee is playing opposite Moulds. He won't be the first option to throw too most of the time until he's had a few years under his belt and time to develop. Cmon guys, if teams decide their picks are busts after the middle of the season, they should close shop.

[DraftBoy]

It's definately a weak QB class, but to say that the entire draft class is weak is wrong. There's alot of depth in this draft, whether it be RB, to linebackers, to even defensive backs.
As for the OT, I doubt Barron is going to be top OT picked... IMO it'll definately be Jamaal Brown from the Sooners. Either way, those two will be first round picks (Marcus McNeil has a pretty good chance at being drafted in the first too).

As for the QB position, Im not too sold on Losman... yet. But to say that he's better than every single QB that might be coming out next year isnt right. Perhaps you forgot about Aaron Rodgers?
Honestly, I just dont see what the big 'hype' about Losman is from some of you guys. To me he just looks like a guy with a good arm, who likes to run alot.
Now I understand that my post here might sound like I dont like our guys... that's not the case. Im just not a homer.

As for Evans, I just dont see him as our homerun threat this year. He's been pretty inconsistent so far, and I dont think he's made much of a difference. IMO, our offense has been all McGahee... His ability to bounce to the outside, break tackles, and make yards out of nothing, has been our only real threat on offense this year.
That, and our line has started to show up. We're nowhere near the leagues best, but we're nowhere near the worst either (I mean other than the Raiders and Ravens games, can you honestly say that our line played that bad?)

BTW, you said our offense has been horrendous since PP left. Guess what? Our offense was horrendous when PP was still here. Remember the second half of the 2002 season? Now that Evans is here, there really hasnt been much difference, other than (I'll mention it again) McGahee being able to move our offense.

A bit off topic, but I dont think our WRs were ever the problem... At the risk of sounding like a DB basher, I've always felt the root of our problems have always been at the QB position.

Now Im not going to judge Evans solely on his performance this year, but I just didnt and still dont see the need for spending our 11th pick on a WR of Evan's size and talent. Roy and Reggie who IMO were the only WRs worthy of a pick that high, were both long gone, and if Donohoe was already set at getting a QB in the first round, why not try harder to pick ahead of the Steelers? Possibly two first rounders? and then go for a WR in the second round?


Alex Barron is by far the top OT in this class and will be the 1st selected. Aaron Rodgers is like alot of other Pac-10 QB's a product of the system. Kyle Boller, Carson Palmer, Ryan Leif. Not dont get my wrong he's better than all those players but He's also alot like them with having one really strong year. Rodgers is about Losman level type play with better accuracy and pocket poise but less mobility and arm strength. The only posistions with good depth are: RB, DL, LB and DB....that does not constitute a strong draft hell the fact thats its depth heavy makes it a bad draft, and this is the type of draft where you know who is a good and bad gm. When you gotta take a 3rd round guy and know he's a starter. This draft lacks the sure shot superstar players you wanna see in the draft class, plenty of depth but lacks top notch players. When the top pick may be a guy who hasnt played football (not due to injury) in nearly a year thats saying something about the class (Mike Williams). The hype about Losman is this....He was a 3 or 4 year starter at Tulane (cant remeber exactly so please forgive me), he got the crap kicked out of him every single year, so he knows how to take a hit and succeeded behind a bad line (which we have), he is mobile (some say happy feet, but that will come with maturity and trust in his OL), he has a cannon, he can throw on the run either way, he can move the pocket, he got nothing but rave reviews from his coaches and former teamates, he's a leader, he has a swagger about him you cant teach, his confidence is sky high, and he has a great teacher in Drew Bledsoe. Im not gonna sit here and tell you he's the savior of this team, but I will say the skills are there.....As for Evans I can prove to you that he's a homerun threat, or anything like that all I can say is that in many games (dont know exact amount) he has had a catch or 2 over 20 yards, hell in some cases he's had some 30 and 40 yard catches, he was a homerun threat at Wisconsin, and runs near a 4.2 40, has soft hands, and is nearly, if not, fully recovered from a knee injury. I see alot in the kid, who is intelligent, a good route runner, fast as can be, and has soft hands.....Lastly in your question about why not try and get Big Ben, it was my understanding that we did attempt to move up but Pitt was budging, so if we dont take Lee Evans at #11, who do we take? Btw great points, and a good discussion, pos rep for you.

[Jeff1220]

After Evans' performance today, I figured this needed a bump.

[Michael82]

After Evans' performance today, I figured this needed a bump.
I agree! :snicker:

[Kenny]

Alex Barron is by far the top OT in this class and will be the 1st selected. Aaron Rodgers is like alot of other Pac-10 QB's a product of the system. Kyle Boller, Carson Palmer, Ryan Leif. Not dont get my wrong he's better than all those players but He's also alot like them with having one really strong year. Rodgers is about Losman level type play with better accuracy and pocket poise but less mobility and arm strength. The only posistions with good depth are: RB, DL, LB and DB....that does not constitute a strong draft hell the fact thats its depth heavy makes it a bad draft, and this is the type of draft where you know who is a good and bad gm. When you gotta take a 3rd round guy and know he's a starter. This draft lacks the sure shot superstar players you wanna see in the draft class, plenty of depth but lacks top notch players. When the top pick may be a guy who hasnt played football (not due to injury) in nearly a year thats saying something about the class (Mike Williams). The hype about Losman is this....He was a 3 or 4 year starter at Tulane (cant remeber exactly so please forgive me), he got the crap kicked out of him every single year, so he knows how to take a hit and succeeded behind a bad line (which we have), he is mobile (some say happy feet, but that will come with maturity and trust in his OL), he has a cannon, he can throw on the run either way, he can move the pocket, he got nothing but rave reviews from his coaches and former teamates, he's a leader, he has a swagger about him you cant teach, his confidence is sky high, and he has a great teacher in Drew Bledsoe. Im not gonna sit here and tell you he's the savior of this team, but I will say the skills are there.....As for Evans I can prove to you that he's a homerun threat, or anything like that all I can say is that in many games (dont know exact amount) he has had a catch or 2 over 20 yards, hell in some cases he's had some 30 and 40 yard catches, he was a homerun threat at Wisconsin, and runs near a 4.2 40, has soft hands, and is nearly, if not, fully recovered from a knee injury. I see alot in the kid, who is intelligent, a good route runner, fast as can be, and has soft hands.....Lastly in your question about why not try and get Big Ben, it was my understanding that we did attempt to move up but Pitt was budging, so if we dont take Lee Evans at #11, who do we take? Btw great points, and a good discussion, pos rep for you.I guess we disagree with the top OT then.

But about the draft, let's take a closer look. This time last year, other than Eli Manning and Roy Williams, were there really any big names? Wait until next year, particulary during and right after the bowl games until you start hearing about all the players being hyped up (as it was before last draft).

I mean take a look at the QBs. Ben and Rivers (and Losman) were not considered 'big' name QBs this time last year. Rivers in particular wasnt even slated to be a first rounder by most 'draft experts' until AFTER the Senior Bowl (I still dont understand how one man's stock can rise so much after just one game). I actually remember Losman was actually considered the 2nd best QB after Manning this time last year.
As for Rodgers being part of a system, I guess we disagree with each other again here. I mean if you were talking about Leinhart, I'd agree with you 100%, but not about Rodgers.

If you want to talk about superstars (I wont even go to the RBs cause it's going to be one of the richest RB classes in a while), people who already have pretty big names:
- Aaron Rodgers (he'll most likely declare)
- Derrick Johnson (LB) arguably more talented than any of LBs that came out last year
- Antrell Rolle (CB)
- Mike Williams (knock him all you want, but even with his current status, I'd take him over any of the WRs last year other than Roy) & Braylon Edwards
I'd be willing to bet that after the bowl games this list will easily triple.

That being said (and getting back to the original topic), Im not against the players we got. Im pretty happy with how things turned out, I just wished that things turned out better (which I know is much easier to say now that it's in the past).

[DraftBoy]

I guess we disagree with the top OT then.

But about the draft, let's take a closer look. This time last year, other than Eli Manning and Roy Williams, were there really any big names? Wait until next year, particulary during and right after the bowl games until you start hearing about all the players being hyped up (as it was before last draft).

I mean take a look at the QBs. Ben and Rivers (and Losman) were not considered 'big' name QBs this time last year. Rivers in particular wasnt even slated to be a first rounder by most 'draft experts' until AFTER the Senior Bowl (I still dont understand how one man's stock can rise so much after just one game). I actually remember Losman was actually considered the 2nd best QB after Manning this time last year.
As for Rodgers being part of a system, I guess we disagree with each other again here. I mean if you were talking about Leinhart, I'd agree with you 100%, but not about Rodgers.

If you want to talk about superstars (I wont even go to the RBs cause it's going to be one of the richest RB classes in a while), people who already have pretty big names:
- Aaron Rodgers (he'll most likely declare)
- Derrick Johnson (LB) arguably more talented than any of LBs that came out last year
- Antrell Rolle (CB)
- Mike Williams (knock him all you want, but even with his current status, I'd take him over any of the WRs last year other than Roy) & Braylon Edwards
I'd be willing to bet that after the bowl games this list will easily triple.

That being said (and getting back to the original topic), Im not against the players we got. Im pretty happy with how things turned out, I just wished that things turned out better (which I know is much easier to say now that it's in the past).


I said that I thought Rodgers was the real deal just making the comparison that is there, as for Eli being the only top QB, Rivers from midseason on was considered a 1st round pick, it was the senior bowl that moved him to the top 10. Antrell Rolle is the only sure shot player to be huge that you listed everyone else has questions with the least being Williams. RB's have alot of good ones but aside from that what other position has a ton of top echelon players? None, its all good-decent depth. Mike Williams is still a lil slow, and hasnt played in a year, Rodgers could be the next Boller. I studied the last draft very closely as I do with every draft (SHAMELESS SELF PROMO: Pay attention for my top 5 senior prospect list at each posistion, COMING SOON!) and Ill study this one, and this is a weak class no way around it.

[SABURZFAN]

This post is a WASTE OF TIME!


i agree.

[SABURZFAN]

Billsfever,Do you think that Evans is good but we shoulda went a different direction in the draft?


i think we should have.this past draft was strong enough where we could have strengthen both the OL and DL.instead,we get a schmoe out of Montana. :mad:

[SABURZFAN]

We got an extra pick in a strong draft and gave away one in a weak draft. Not too bad imo.


donahoe gave up too much. :down:

[SABURZFAN]

I believe we tried to move up for Big Ben but Pitt wasnt budging.


i don't understand why we didn't deal with houston because houston could have gotten robinson at our pick. :idunno:

[Jan Reimers]

After Evans' performance today, I figured this needed a bump.
With regard to Lee Evans, Toby Keith said it best: "How do you like me now?"

Some of you need to sit back and watch our young talent develop. This just might turn out to be a very good team.

[TigerJ]

Donahoe was very interested in Clayton. They brought him in for a visit and talked with him for a while. Lee Evans was picked because he was what they were missing. He's just not getting used properly. I haven't seen him drop any(many) passes at all. Bledsoe just isn't finding him open downfield. I believe he will be a big part of the offense next year and he was the receiver trhe Bills needed. They needed speed, not a possession receiver, a speed receiver to compliment Moulds. I also feel that we might have Moulds' replacement on the team. I know people are going to laugh, but Sam Aiken looks huge. He's been working out with Moulds and once they get him more involved in the offense, you will see it. Evans is a great deep threat to match the posession receiver in Moulds or aiken. :up:

Mikey's right. Eric Moulds needs a speed receiver on the other side to be most effective. Evans was brought along slowly at the start of the season in part because as a smaller receiver he had a little trouble learning how to fight through the contact within five yards of the line of scrimmage. The lower numbers also reflect the fact that Buffalo's making a concerted effort to focus on power running and not becoming "Air Mularkey." He's doing just fine now.

[chernobylwraiths]

i don't understand why we didn't deal with houston because houston could have gotten robinson at our pick. :idunno:

The Jets wanted a CB from what I understand and would have taken one if they dropped to their spot.

I can't remember. If we move up to Houston's spot, don't we draft big Ben? If that was the case, then we don't get Evans and our offense probably still looks like crap, and Ben would still be riding the pine.

[Dozerdog]

i don't understand why we didn't deal with houston because houston could have gotten robinson at our pick. :idunno:

Talk to Houston


I was listening to an interview onSirius NFL Radio between Gil Brandt and Dunta Robinson. They broached the subject with with him and it sounds like the Texans had their hearts set on keeping that pick and going after Robinson- he was the guy they wanted.

Had the Bills traded and taken Big Ben - the Steelers or even Jaguars would have scooped him up before Houston.

[SABURZFAN]

Talk to Houston


I was listening to an interview onSirius NFL Radio between Gil Brandt and Dunta Robinson. They broached the subject with with him and it sounds like the Texans had their hearts set on keeping that pick and going after Robinson- he was the guy they wanted.

Had the Bills traded and taken Big Ben - the Steelers or even Jaguars would have scooped him up before Houston.


i see.they could have gone a different direction and still pick have gotten a decent CB later in the draft.JMO.

[TedMock]

Michael Clayton and Lee Evans can't really be compared due their current situations. Because of the Keyshawn/McCardell situations in Tampa, Clayton became the number one guy. Evans was drafted specifically for his speed to compliment Moulds and Reed. Since he was a first rounder, I'd imagine that he's being groomed for the number one spot eventually.

[EDS]

In my opinion Lee Evans has shown enough this year to justify his draft position. I doubt TD is kicking himself in the pants over this one. Now the GM in Jacksonville may have a harder time explaining the lack of production from Reggie Williams, but it is still way too early to pass judgment on any of these first year players.

Remember, the year Moulds was drafted Terry Glenn had an awesome rookie year but has done little since. Of the first round wider receivers taken that year - Keyshawn, Glenn, Harrison, Kennison and Moulds - I think Moulds is easily number 2 on that list, despite two very unpruductive years to start his career.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

It's definately a weak QB class, but to say that the entire draft class is weak is wrong....

As for the QB position, Im not too sold on Losman... yet. But to say that he's better than every single QB that might be coming out next year isnt right. Perhaps you forgot about Aaron Rodgers?
Honestly, I just dont see what the big 'hype' about Losman is from some of you guys. To me he just looks like a guy with a good arm, who likes to run alot.
Now I understand that my post here might sound like I dont like our guys... that's not the case. Im just not a homer.....

As for Evans, I just dont see him as our homerun threat this year. He's been pretty inconsistent so far, and I dont think he's made much of a difference. IMO, our offense has been all McGahee... A bit off topic, but I dont think our WRs were ever the problem... At the risk of sounding like a DB basher, I've always felt the root of our problems have always been at the QB position.

Now Im not going to judge Evans solely on his performance this year, but I just didnt and still dont see the need for spending our 11th pick on a WR of Evan's size and talent. Roy and Reggie who IMO were the only WRs worthy of a pick that high, were both long gone, and if Donohoe was already set at getting a QB in the first round, why not try harder to pick ahead of the Steelers? Possibly two first rounders? and then go for a WR in the second round?
Sorry, but I have to jump in and make a couple of points here:

First of all, there were several published reports immediately after the draft that stated that TD tried to trade up to select B.Roethlisberger in the first round, but that the teams that he tried to deal with were not interested in trading down because they had their minds set on specific players that they felt would not still be available if they traded down to the Bills' pick--specifically, Houston which wanted D.Robinson and knew that the NY Jets would take him, which was true because the NYJ were open about their disappointment at not getting a DB at that spot. With Houston and Jacksonville unwilling to trade down, there was no chance for the Bills to get Roethlisberger. And, Bills fans who keep saying that we should have or could have are simply ignoring the realities of what actually happened on draft day.

Secondly, M.Clayton is a possession receiver who plays in a variation of the West Coast offense under J.Gruden at Tampa Bay. Lee Evans is a speed receiver playing in what is supposed to be a ball-control, rushing offense with the Bills. Of course, Clayton is going to have more receptions over the course of a season--that is a simple fact dictated by the nature of the offensive systems that the two are playing in. Their roles are different as are the talents that they bring to those roles and their statistics will reflect that. Judging their value to their teams based on statistics alone is a false comparison. If you are going to compare Evans to other speed receivers in this past draft, you have to compare him to Roy Williams, Rashaun Woods (maybe), Earnest Wilford, Michael Jenkins and Deverey Henderson. Only Wilford and Henderson were still available when the Bills would have picked in the 2nd round of the draft. Maybe Jenkins would have still been there, but those would have been the players we would have ended up with instead of Evans.

You can argue that the Bills should have taken an offensive lineman with their first pick, but who, I ask, would you have had them pick and what would that player be contributing to the team this season? The only O-lineman taken in the first or early second round who hasn't been labeled as disappointing so far has been Jake Grove. He went early in the second round and virtually every draft expert would have gone crazy talking about how the Bills screwed up if they had taken him with their first pick in the draft. Moreover, anyone who thinks that drafting O-linemen in the first round will guarantee that a team will end up with a great offensive line should take a look at the Pats or the Chargers--most of their O-linemen are lower round picks and free agents--then, take a look at Robert Gallery, Vernon Carey, or our own Mike Williams.

Finally, as for waiting to draft a QB until this season, in order for the Bills to get a shot at Aaron Rodgers or Matt Leinart (if he comes out), the Bills would have to have a pick in the top 10, probably the top 5, in this coming year's draft--after all, just take a look at all of the teams that will be looking to draft a QB after this season. With the talent on the Bills' roster coming into this season, should the Bills' front office have had any reason to believe that the team would be guaranteed to have a pick in the top 10 of this year's draft? Considering what it took for the NY Giants to move up in the draft to pick Eli Manning in a QB rich draft, would you want the Bills to have to spend that much in order to move up in the coming draft in order to take Rodgers (who is only 6'2") or Leinart (no guarantee he's coming out)? And, that's assuming that a team would even be willing to make a trade with them for that--which would by no means be guaranteed. As it is, without Losman playing and as bad as Bledsoe has been at times, the Bills have a very good chance to go 8-8 (give or take a game) this season, which will put them in the middle of the first round with no shot at drafting one of the top two QBs in the draft. That means that, instead of Losman, they would be taking their chances with such outstanding prospects as D.Orlovsky (has had a disappointing sr. year), A.Walter (as immobile as Bledsoe), K.Orton (went from Heisman candidate to the bench), A.Smith (a junior), C.Frye (who?), S.LeFors (only 6'0" tall), etc.

Now, I'm not going to say that Lee Evans is going to turn into the next coming of James Lofton or that JP Losman will become the next Jim Kelly--it is way too early to know how good either one of them will be and it is RIDICULOUS to speculate about that at this stage of their careers. However, anyone who saw Evans play in college before he was injured knew that, if he were able to recover his speed, he would become a quality starting WR in the NFL--at least on the level of a C.Chambers, who preceded him at Wisconsin, because he was hands-down better than Chambers as a collegian. Will he become an All-Pro worthy of the high draft pick the Bills used on him, only time and his ability to perform within the Bills' offensive system will tell. And, the same goes for Losman. The one thing that I think we can say about Losman so far is that he has shown some flashes of kind of abilities that you would want from a young QB and that he appears to have more going for him in that regard than the QBs who are likely to still be available when the Bills first round pick (the one that Dallas will now have) in the coming draft. And, even though Losman hasn't practiced or played much, by getting him on the team this season, the Bills will be in a better position to replace Bledsoe sooner and cheaper than they would be if they waited until this year to draft a young QB or had to try to sign a free agent QB.

Part of evaluating whether drafting Evans when they did and making the trade for Losman involves taking a realistic view of what the alternatives to those move were at the time and the choices that were realistically available to management. True, we could have gotten a speed receiver later in the draft, though not one with the track record of Evans. True, we could have kept our draft picks and waited until next year to pick up a QB. True, we could have used our top two picks on badly needed offensive linemen. But, would that have been in the long-term best interests of the team? If you're just going to look at statistics or the short-term, you are not going to see the whole picture and the difference will be similar to the difference between fantasy football and the NFL game that is played on the field where things that contribute to victory or defeat often don't appear in the scorebook.

[EDS]

Sorry, but I have to jump in and make a couple of points here:

First of all, there were several published reports immediately after the draft that stated that TD tried to trade up to select B.Roethlisberger in the first round, but that the teams that he tried to deal with were not interested in trading down because they had their minds set on specific players that they felt would not still be available if they traded down to the Bills' pick--specifically, Houston which wanted D.Robinson and knew that the NY Jets would take him, which was true because the NYJ were open about their disappointment at not getting a DB at that spot. With Houston and Jacksonville unwilling to trade down, there was no chance for the Bills to get Roethlisberger. And, Bills fans who keep saying that we should have or could have are simply ignoring the realities of what actually happened on draft day.

Secondly, M.Clayton is a possession receiver who plays in a variation of the West Coast offense under J.Gruden at Tampa Bay. Lee Evans is a speed receiver playing in what is supposed to be a ball-control, rushing offense with the Bills. Of course, Clayton is going to have more receptions over the course of a season--that is a simple fact dictated by the nature of the offensive systems that the two are playing in. Their roles are different as are the talents that they bring to those roles and their statistics will reflect that. Judging their value to their teams based on statistics alone is a false comparison. If you are going to compare Evans to other speed receivers in this past draft, you have to compare him to Roy Williams, Rashaun Woods (maybe), Earnest Wilford, Michael Jenkins and Deverey Henderson. Only Wilford and Henderson were still available when the Bills would have picked in the 2nd round of the draft. Maybe Jenkins would have still been there, but those would have been the players we would have ended up with instead of Evans.

You can argue that the Bills should have taken an offensive lineman with their first pick, but who, I ask, would you have had them pick and what would that player be contributing to the team this season? The only O-lineman taken in the first or early second round who hasn't been labeled as disappointing so far has been Jake Grove. He went early in the second round and virtually every draft expert would have gone crazy talking about how the Bills screwed up if they had taken him with their first pick in the draft. Moreover, anyone who thinks that drafting O-linemen in the first round will guarantee that a team will end up with a great offensive line should take a look at the Pats or the Chargers--most of their O-linemen are lower round picks and free agents--then, take a look at Robert Gallery, Vernon Carey, or our own Mike Williams.

Finally, as for waiting to draft a QB until this season, in order for the Bills to get a shot at Aaron Rodgers or Matt Leinart (if he comes out), the Bills would have to have a pick in the top 10, probably the top 5, in this coming year's draft--after all, just take a look at all of the teams that will be looking to draft a QB after this season. With the talent on the Bills' roster coming into this season, should the Bills' front office have had any reason to believe that the team would be guaranteed to have a pick in the top 10 of this year's draft? Considering what it took for the NY Giants to move up in the draft to pick Eli Manning in a QB rich draft, would you want the Bills to have to spend that much in order to move up in the coming draft in order to take Rodgers (who is only 6'2") or Leinart (no guarantee he's coming out)? And, that's assuming that a team would even be willing to make a trade with them for that--which would by no means be guaranteed. As it is, without Losman playing and as bad as Bledsoe has been at times, the Bills have a very good chance to go 8-8 (give or take a game) this season, which will put them in the middle of the first round with no shot at drafting one of the top two QBs in the draft. That means that, instead of Losman, they would be taking their chances with such outstanding prospects as D.Orlovsky (has had a disappointing sr. year), A.Walter (as immobile as Bledsoe), K.Orton (went from Heisman candidate to the bench), A.Smith (a junior), C.Frye (who?), S.LeFors (only 6'0" tall), etc.

Now, I'm not going to say that Lee Evans is going to turn into the next coming of James Lofton or that JP Losman will become the next Jim Kelly--it is way too early to know how good either one of them will be and it is RIDICULOUS to speculate about that at this stage of their careers. However, anyone who saw Evans play in college before he was injured knew that, if he were able to recover his speed, he would become a quality starting WR in the NFL--at least on the level of a C.Chambers, who preceded him at Wisconsin, because he was hands-down better than Chambers as a collegian. Will he become an All-Pro worthy of the high draft pick the Bills used on him, only time and his ability to perform within the Bills' offensive system will tell. And, the same goes for Losman. The one thing that I think we can say about Losman so far is that he has shown some flashes of kind of abilities that you would want from a young QB and that he appears to have more going for him in that regard than the QBs who are likely to still be available when the Bills first round pick (the one that Dallas will now have) in the coming draft. And, even though Losman hasn't practiced or played much, by getting him on the team this season, the Bills will be in a better position to replace Bledsoe sooner and cheaper than they would be if they waited until this year to draft a young QB or had to try to sign a free agent QB.

Part of evaluating whether drafting Evans when they did and making the trade for Losman involves taking a realistic view of what the alternatives to those move were at the time and the choices that were realistically available to management. True, we could have gotten a speed receiver later in the draft, though not one with the track record of Evans. True, we could have kept our draft picks and waited until next year to pick up a QB. True, we could have used our top two picks on badly needed offensive linemen. But, would that have been in the long-term best interests of the team? If you're just going to look at statistics or the short-term, you are not going to see the whole picture and the difference will be similar to the difference between fantasy football and the NFL game that is played on the field where things that contribute to victory or defeat often don't appear in the scorebook.

Excellent post, to which I will add the concept that it would be hard for any team to be well-balanced with a roster full of first round offense lineman tying up a large part of the cap. I think good value offenisve lineman are found round two and lower, with a couple exceptions like Ogden and Jones.

[DraftBoy]

Sorry, but I have to jump in and make a couple of points here:

First of all, there were several published reports immediately after the draft that stated that TD tried to trade up to select B.Roethlisberger in the first round, but that the teams that he tried to deal with were not interested in trading down because they had their minds set on specific players that they felt would not still be available if they traded down to the Bills' pick--specifically, Houston which wanted D.Robinson and knew that the NY Jets would take him, which was true because the NYJ were open about their disappointment at not getting a DB at that spot. With Houston and Jacksonville unwilling to trade down, there was no chance for the Bills to get Roethlisberger. And, Bills fans who keep saying that we should have or could have are simply ignoring the realities of what actually happened on draft day.

Secondly, M.Clayton is a possession receiver who plays in a variation of the West Coast offense under J.Gruden at Tampa Bay. Lee Evans is a speed receiver playing in what is supposed to be a ball-control, rushing offense with the Bills. Of course, Clayton is going to have more receptions over the course of a season--that is a simple fact dictated by the nature of the offensive systems that the two are playing in. Their roles are different as are the talents that they bring to those roles and their statistics will reflect that. Judging their value to their teams based on statistics alone is a false comparison. If you are going to compare Evans to other speed receivers in this past draft, you have to compare him to Roy Williams, Rashaun Woods (maybe), Earnest Wilford, Michael Jenkins and Deverey Henderson. Only Wilford and Henderson were still available when the Bills would have picked in the 2nd round of the draft. Maybe Jenkins would have still been there, but those would have been the players we would have ended up with instead of Evans.

You can argue that the Bills should have taken an offensive lineman with their first pick, but who, I ask, would you have had them pick and what would that player be contributing to the team this season? The only O-lineman taken in the first or early second round who hasn't been labeled as disappointing so far has been Jake Grove. He went early in the second round and virtually every draft expert would have gone crazy talking about how the Bills screwed up if they had taken him with their first pick in the draft. Moreover, anyone who thinks that drafting O-linemen in the first round will guarantee that a team will end up with a great offensive line should take a look at the Pats or the Chargers--most of their O-linemen are lower round picks and free agents--then, take a look at Robert Gallery, Vernon Carey, or our own Mike Williams.

Finally, as for waiting to draft a QB until this season, in order for the Bills to get a shot at Aaron Rodgers or Matt Leinart (if he comes out), the Bills would have to have a pick in the top 10, probably the top 5, in this coming year's draft--after all, just take a look at all of the teams that will be looking to draft a QB after this season. With the talent on the Bills' roster coming into this season, should the Bills' front office have had any reason to believe that the team would be guaranteed to have a pick in the top 10 of this year's draft? Considering what it took for the NY Giants to move up in the draft to pick Eli Manning in a QB rich draft, would you want the Bills to have to spend that much in order to move up in the coming draft in order to take Rodgers (who is only 6'2") or Leinart (no guarantee he's coming out)? And, that's assuming that a team would even be willing to make a trade with them for that--which would by no means be guaranteed. As it is, without Losman playing and as bad as Bledsoe has been at times, the Bills have a very good chance to go 8-8 (give or take a game) this season, which will put them in the middle of the first round with no shot at drafting one of the top two QBs in the draft. That means that, instead of Losman, they would be taking their chances with such outstanding prospects as D.Orlovsky (has had a disappointing sr. year), A.Walter (as immobile as Bledsoe), K.Orton (went from Heisman candidate to the bench), A.Smith (a junior), C.Frye (who?), S.LeFors (only 6'0" tall), etc.

Now, I'm not going to say that Lee Evans is going to turn into the next coming of James Lofton or that JP Losman will become the next Jim Kelly--it is way too early to know how good either one of them will be and it is RIDICULOUS to speculate about that at this stage of their careers. However, anyone who saw Evans play in college before he was injured knew that, if he were able to recover his speed, he would become a quality starting WR in the NFL--at least on the level of a C.Chambers, who preceded him at Wisconsin, because he was hands-down better than Chambers as a collegian. Will he become an All-Pro worthy of the high draft pick the Bills used on him, only time and his ability to perform within the Bills' offensive system will tell. And, the same goes for Losman. The one thing that I think we can say about Losman so far is that he has shown some flashes of kind of abilities that you would want from a young QB and that he appears to have more going for him in that regard than the QBs who are likely to still be available when the Bills first round pick (the one that Dallas will now have) in the coming draft. And, even though Losman hasn't practiced or played much, by getting him on the team this season, the Bills will be in a better position to replace Bledsoe sooner and cheaper than they would be if they waited until this year to draft a young QB or had to try to sign a free agent QB.

Part of evaluating whether drafting Evans when they did and making the trade for Losman involves taking a realistic view of what the alternatives to those move were at the time and the choices that were realistically available to management. True, we could have gotten a speed receiver later in the draft, though not one with the track record of Evans. True, we could have kept our draft picks and waited until next year to pick up a QB. True, we could have used our top two picks on badly needed offensive linemen. But, would that have been in the long-term best interests of the team? If you're just going to look at statistics or the short-term, you are not going to see the whole picture and the difference will be similar to the difference between fantasy football and the NFL game that is played on the field where things that contribute to victory or defeat often don't appear in the scorebook.


Awesome post!!! :dance:

[Dozerdog]

Brilliant post LifetimeBillsFan !!!!Pos rep going your way!!!

This is waht drives me nuts about talking about the draft- everyone says woulda-coulda-shoulda but they ignore the fact that ......


1-Other teams don't think like you..... so to say you could have gotten a different player at that position later and screws up your draft day scenario is crazy talk. Teams fall in love with a player. Had we even pulled off a trade for Big Ben, this team would still be in similar straights. There would not be a 9-0 run by Big Ben in a Bills uni. There would be questions if he would have even seen the field outside of mop-up duty.


2- People make hindsight picks after they know who was taken later. If TD knew what the draft list was beforehand- I'll bet he would have made different choices.


I didn't like half of the picks made by the Bills every draft year- but I like to think I'm patient enough to see what happens down the road. Is Euhus the next Jay Riemersma? 50 catches, 500 yards, 6-8 TDs a season? Let time tell.