"High Powered Offense?"

[WG]

Obviously there is something amiss w/ this offense that we've heard is so high-powered.

The only games that we've passed for over 300 yards and any significant scoring, were teams that have passing Ds ranked as such:

Minnesota 31st
Chicago 24th
Oakland 23rd
Detroit 29th
and N.E. but only on the merits of an 80-yard passing drive against a prevent D in the last two minutes that went 98 yards but could not produce a TD on three tries from within the 4 YL. 222 yards otherwise.

Why is this? Are we still viewing things thru rose-colored glasses? Or does anyone else here see some issues w/ our offense both passing and rushing. Actually, I happen to think that our rushing game is now stronger than our passing game. Henry has really addressed his fumbling problem and demonstrated to me that he's got some large potential in this league. It's just too bad that Gilbride doesn't know how to properly utilize an RB.

Thoughts?

[Pride]

I agree

[JayWood]

With this offense who the hell cares about the running back, even though he averages more than 4 yards per carry and will reach 1000 plus yeards for the season, with 10+ touchdowns. Why does KG not see how to win a game with the running back and not always through the arm of Bledsoe??

[Ingtar33]

I don't know... I think you're seeing the evolution of the Bills O right now. K.Gilbride still hasn't implemented the whole thing yet, and right now it looks like he still trying to feel out what works and what doesn't. It can take a while for the whole thing to get on track, as he has been trying different things in both the running game and passing game to get a better feel for his players. Gilbride is an accomplished OC, and in general I think he does a masterful job putting the D into untenable situations. He also believes (as do many OCs) that the key to success is repeatability. He wants the O to function like a machine, with predictable results for every play against every defensive scheme. We just aren't there yet.

About the lack of short yardage running...
This is the result of two things; One, Gilbride still doesn't have confidence in our O-line to gain even 1 yard in short yardage situations... and after watching this team week after week, I really can't blame him as it looks like the line gets too jacked up, and forgets their technique and just tries to bowl over the guy ahead of them... this tends to happen with a unit that lacks confidence in themselves as they just feel the need to force it too much... Bill Parcells usually had some great run blocking short yardage offenses, and this was the result of him psychologically manipulating the O... the Lineman knew that he would run, the other team would know they were going to run, and Parcells would run 10 or 15 time in third and short or fourth and short and be content to fail every time until the line finally started to calm down and believe that they could do it... the result is he got tremendous performance out of FA castoffs by isolating them in front of their team and letting them know that if they lost, it would because they couldn't get the RB one yard; Two, Drew Bledsoe tends to audiblize to a pass when he sees 8 or 9 men stacked in the box, he's right to do so, I'd just like to see him convert a few of those occasionally (like he did earlier in the year).

[Ingtar33]

BTW: its becoming more and more obvious that Henry is becoming an everydown back... we're seeing Gilbride lean on him more and more, give it some time folks Rome wasn't built in a day.

[colin]

Gilbride needs to run more in the Red Zone, we did it pretty well early in the season and we got away from it when Williams went down. Other than that I will take him.

He makes me nervous as a fan of the Bills, I wonder if he is gonna do something crazy on every play, it must really freak out opposing coordinators.

[WG]

Originally posted by JayWood
With this offense who the hell cares about the running back, even though he averages more than 4 yards per carry and will reach 1000 plus yeards for the season, with 10+ touchdowns. Why does KG not see how to win a game with the running back and not always through the arm of Bledsoe??

I think that's a great question! Especially since the 'arm of Bledsoe' isn't winning us any significant games.

[WG]

Originally posted by Ingtar33
BTW: its becoming more and more obvious that Henry is becoming an everydown back... we're seeing Gilbride lean on him more and more, give it some time folks Rome wasn't built in a day.

I agree. But on your prior post, Gilbride went to a passing game that hadn't even been effective over a rushing game that had been. Henry was averaging well over 5 YPC. I can see the point if Bledsoe & Co. had played well. But they hadn't. They only had 214 passing yards and 1 TD up until that point. The rushing game had been far more effective.

Besides, we not only needed either to score TD or FG, but also to take as much of that 4:45 off the clock as well. Gilbride has been in this league for how long now? Even someone new to watching NFL football would quickly realize that passing 4 times in 30 seconds ain't gonna take a bunch of time off the clock. Especially when 3 are incompletions.

Rome wasn't built in a day. But I'm sure it wasn't built by idiots either.

We must keep in mind that no one in this league has passed for more attempts over the past 10 seasons as either an O.C. or head coach than Gilbride. If Manning, Griese, Favre, Warner, or Garcia had been his QBs, then fine. That would be one thing. But he's had Stewart, Leaf, and some other fine QBs leading his teams.

I don't think Gilbride is good for us. He's doesn't put together a balanced game plan. Unfortunately, I think it's gonna be a few seasons before people realize this since everyone "oohs and awes" at all the yards that Drew throws for while completely disregarding any notion that it simply isn't resulting in a lot of points on the boards.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Its funny how quickly people can turn on a player. Three weeks ago people were talking division title and Bledsoe for MVP. A couple of games later its Bledsoe stinks and so do the Bills. Don't get me wrong some of the play calling have been horrible of late and the penalties are a joke, but talk about what have you done for me lately!!!!

[THATHURMANATOR]

I personnally still think Bledsoe is playing well. The O needs to start converting their redzone attempts. 1st and goal on the 5 yard line and we pass 3 straight times??? Especially when they couldn't stop Henry at all! That was pretty bad.

[SoCalBillsFan]

IMO, Bledsoe has done an awesome job this year. THe guy played well yesterday, yeahhe threw the late pick, but he still is a hell of a QB.

THat being said, he cant win games on his own. KG has issues with playcalling. Henry needs the ball more. Yes, there are improvements needed, maybe the offense is still evolving, but Bledsoe is certainly a QB who can take us to the Super Bowl. We cant expect him to win games on his own.

[WCoastFin]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Obviously there is something amiss w/ this offense that we've heard is so high-powered.

The only games that we've passed for over 300 yards and any significant scoring, were teams that have passing Ds ranked as such:

Minnesota 31st
Chicago 24th
Oakland 23rd
Detroit 29th
and N.E. but only on the merits of an 80-yard passing drive against a prevent D in the last two minutes that went 98 yards but could not produce a TD on three tries from within the 4 YL. 222 yards otherwise.

Why is this? Are we still viewing things thru rose-colored glasses? Or does anyone else here see some issues w/ our offense both passing and rushing. Actually, I happen to think that our rushing game is now stronger than our passing game. Henry has really addressed his fumbling problem and demonstrated to me that he's got some large potential in this league. It's just too bad that Gilbride doesn't know how to properly utilize an RB.

Thoughts?

Whoa! well said Wys! your on the right page!....Although thats what Ive been saying from the beggining of the year....and no one would listen, heck, I even read a post that made me LMAO that stated something like "Wow, now I know what Rams fans felt like, this is the beggining of a powerfull offense" and I started LMAO! that person mustve been :coocoo: and you guys are a loooooong ways to being like the Rams offense, not to mention Henry being a Looooooooooooooooooooooooooong ways from M.Faulk....but IMO, the only reason your Running game is getting better is becuase these defenses still fear that Powerful ofense that you never had....thats what happened against Miami...why do you think Henry didnt touch the endzone? Becuase when it came down to the redzone we knew that the Long Passing game that Bledsoe loves to play, was no longer available.

[WG]

TT,

Don't go readin' into things right now. But I gotta tell ya, the expectations for Bledsoe were high when he came here. Everyone argued that he didn't have any tools in N.E. and that he finally has them here. I fully agree.

He has the RB now. He has an OL that gives him plenty of time usually. He has the aura that we're always in the game. He's got WRs such as he's never had before. He's got two very good receiving TEs. He's got an O.C. who allows him to throw even when it makes no sense for the team. He's got everything that he needs to shine.

So I think it stands to reason that if he doesn't at least match his career best while "he had no tools", then it's considered a subpar season. At this rate, he isn't even going to match his three best seasons from a TD perspective this season.

Having said that, I will also say that I still think that Drew is playing the best ball of his career now. He's not making a lot of dumb choices and throwing costly INTs. I realize that can change over the next few weeks as we'll likely be trying to come-from-behind in most games at some point, but for now, he's playing his best ball. IMO.

But I will also say that it is exactly these decisions to put the ball into Drew's hands that may be making him look less effective. If it makes more sense to run the ball, then it simply makes more sense to run the ball. That's just the way it is. By forcing Drew to try and do things, it only puts unnecessary pressure and expectations on him that if they do not work out, as yesterday, they simply make Drew look more inadequate that the situation merits.

That's where all this focus on yards is hurting us. We have to start looking at things realistically. If we can score more by running the ball, then why even put it "in Drew's hands"? Let's run the daggoned thing! I would much rather see our team be 12-4 w/ Drew only having 3,500 passing yards and 20 TDs while Henry has 1,500 and 18 TDs, than to be where we are and have Drew set all kinds of records that seem awesome. Right now I think we're more focused on Drew and him getting lots and lots of yards than we are in winning games. Certainly we're playing like we are.

I blame that on Gilbride. Gilbride simply needs to learn what should have been learned a decade ago by him, that often you must run the ball in order to give you team the best chance to win the game. That hasn't happened. Gilbride is not doing Drew any favors by "putting the ball in Drew's hands" at every single opportunity when the game's close at the end of the game.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I agree with that. Gilbride's playcalling has been very suspect lately.

[THATHURMANATOR]

What is Gilbride's obsession with constantly passing the ball anyways?? Henry was unstoppable yesterday but yet he only got 24 carries. What is with that?

[Earthquake Enyart]

Buddy Ryan was right all along.

[WG]

Originally posted by THATHURMANATOR
What is Gilbride's obsession with constantly passing the ball anyways?? Henry was unstoppable yesterday but yet he only got 24 carries. What is with that?

AMEN!

IMO if we run Henry in that last 4:45 we win. The clock gets largely used up, and I see us getting into the endzone by a balanced attack. Go for 2, ..., voilah!

Win! 6-4.

I think you were being facetious, but the running game was working, while the passing game was struggling on barely over 200 for the game. The Chiefs did a good job of preparing for us but wouldn't have succeeded had we not played into their hands.

[Dozerdog]

Just curious Wys, where would those teams rank if they didn't play the Bills?


We toss 475 yards at the Vikes, of course their numbers were low. Take out our game vs them and then rank them vs the rest of the league.

Overall, Ingtar has far more insight, objectivity, and knowledge on these matters than the resyt of us put together. You master the "Rookie" level of John Madden Playstation football an everyone becomes an expert.


I agree with him. It's a work in process that will take a season to work out the kinks.

[Earthquake Enyart]

C'mon Dozer. Everyone knows that if you take the big runs away, the numbers tell quite a different story.

[THATHURMANATOR]

LOL EE

[WG]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Just curious Wys, where would those teams rank if they didn't play the Bills?


We toss 475 yards at the Vikes, of course their numbers were low. Take out our game vs them and then rank them vs the rest of the league.

Overall, Ingtar has far more insight, objectivity, and knowledge on these matters than the resyt of us put together. You master the "Rookie" level of John Madden Playstation football an everyone becomes an expert.


I agree with him. It's a work in process that will take a season to work out the kinks.


Then perhaps you can explain that while "working out the kinks", we're actually getting much worse? Seems to me that under similar circumstances, when teams "work out the kinks", there are signs of improvement! No?

Doesn't make me too optimistic!!!

Or does it now take a couple of seasons to "work out the kinks?"

I think it may since I view the "kinks" as Gilbride for now!

;)

[WG]

Heck! If that's the case, then let's quit working out the kinks.

We were far better w/ the kinks in there!

:D

Let's see how much better we actually become while "working out more kinks!"

[WG]

"Just curious Wys, where would those teams rank if they didn't play the Bills?"

Sorry, didn't answer the question. IDK, but we'd be what, 1-5 if we hadn't played them, eh.

[TacklingDummy]

Originally posted by Wys Guy

Minnesota 31st
Chicago 24th
Oakland 23rd
Detroit 29th
and N.E. but only on the merits of an 80-yard passing drive against a prevent D in the last two minutes that went 98 yards but could not produce a TD on three tries from within the 4 YL. 222 yards otherwise.

Thoughts?

OMG, The way I am reading this is the same way I use to read your Flutie/Johnson arguements.

Drew is padding his stats. against the bad defenses. Maybe the Bills should try Travis Brown.:wave:

[lunatic_bills_fan]

WCF, how the hell can you say that we are looking through rose colored glasses. A lot of people on this board are being realistic about the product they are seeing on the feild. Dont forget that the powerhouse of a team that everyone had prediciting to be big in the AFC (Phins), is still 6-4 and very much in desperation of making the playoffs. I guess they sell those Teal colored glasses next to the rose ones. Anyone that compares this team to the Rams, doesnt know football, but also anyone who believes that Miami ranks in the top 15 in the NFL also doesnt know football.

[WG]

IDK lunatic. I'd sure say that Miami belongs in the top 15, especially after this past weekend.

Fins assessments of his own team have been a lot more realistic than many of our fans' assessments of the Bills.

Don't forget that w/ Fiedler in there the Fins had the 6th ranked scoring O. Coupled w/ their O which has continued playing solid ball overall, that's easily a top 15 combo. If Lucas comes around or if Fiedler gets healthy again, then they're right back in the thick of things. They could arguably be the best team in the AFC as many said they were prior to Fiedler's injury.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Ingtar33
I don't know... I think you're seeing the evolution of the Bills O right now. K.Gilbride still hasn't implemented the whole thing yet,


10 games into the season is too long to wait, IMO. He should have figured out his offense by week 6, IMO.

[Mad Bomber]

Why, when we were 1st and goal inside the 10, and we had been running the ball well, and our O-line was pushing them all over the place, did we throw 3 times and settle for a field goal?

Gilbride is too pass-happy, and is becoming too predictable, IMO.

[Ingtar33]

Gilbride...

I'm not going to argue that Gilbride is a great OC... In football terms I'm most definitely not on the same page as KG, I've always favored ball control, 30+ runs offenses... yah that’s right, I'm a fan of Marty ball. On the other hand, KG was one of the pioneers of the run 'n gun, and has always leaned heavily on the arms of his QB. To his mind (and the theory of the run 'n gun) a 60% completion rating with 40 passes will usually result in 250+ yards and at least 3 TDs. Run 'n Gun OCs live with the law of averages, and are firm believers in the need to put the ball in the air. As you can see, I'm close to diametrically opposed to this type of thinking. But even I have to admit I'm fairly impressed with a lot of what KG has done with this offense.

He has taught every last player his passing system. He has succeeded in turning our O-line into a fairly decent unit. He has kept Drew comfortable within a new offensive system. He has used a good combination of personnel to get the match-ups he wants. And his play calling has kept DCs on their heels for most of our games. If Moulds keeps both feet in bounds and hold onto one other pass (out of the two which hit his hands that he dropped in the endzone) and the Bills would have gone 3 for 4 inside the 20. Bledsoe hits Price in stride instead of under throwing him, and we might be talking about a win not a loss. What does KG's play calling have to do with any of these plays?

Should he have run more? Who knows? Just because Henry was running between the twenties doesn't mean he would have succeeded inside the twenties. If there has been one inconsistency in the O all year it has been that they can't gain short yards on the ground. I'm not taking anything away from the line or Henry by saying this but the Chiefs played the Bills O with a Nickel or Dime on nearly every play... it is easy to run against that...

Again, this is not a defense of KG. I'm just saying that things are not that black and white. A guy like Gilbride will fall back to the passing game when things get tight... its how he made his name... its what he believes in.

Is Gilbride a good OC? Yes.
Is Gilbride the best OC in football? No, not by a long shot.
Is Gilbride good for the Bills? Considering what we’ve had, where we were, the situation our team and O was in, and most definitely the game plans and adjustments I’ve seen, Yes.

[WCoastFin]

guys guys guys, this so called "powerful offense" has only scored 4 TDs in the last 4 games (1 TD in ea. game)....RAY LUCAS has thrown for more TDs than that in the last 4 games! ....RAY LUCAS MAN! embaressing Bledsoe, embaressing!

[WG]

Originally posted by The_Philster



10 games into the season is too long to wait, IMO. He should have figured out his offense by week 6, IMO.

You hit that nail right on the head Philster! The primary reason why I don't buy this "our offense needs time" argument is that it's been getting progressively worse as the season has gone on. Even if we had been improving that may have held water. But it hasn't. So unless you believe that we must get horribly worse prior to realizing any positive returns, then that argument doesn't fly.

Besides, Bledsoe was supposed to be plug-n-play/turnkey due to his vast experience. He was supposed to bring this potency to the table immediately. Henry was the class of the NFL or near it. Our OL was and is solid. Our WRs are the best tandem/trio in the league!

I think we're starting to make excuses for Gilbride. Besides, if he's so good, how come his teams have never won the AFC Championship?


Ingtar,

"What does KG's play calling have to do with any of these plays?"

That's easy! We simply weren't passing the ball effectively on Sunday. 200 yards w/ only 1 TD isn't good at all against a D like K.C.s ranked last or near last in just about everything. Gilbride should have gone w/ the rushing game to not only succeed in putting us in a position to score, but also to take some time off the clock. Further, the chances of turning the ball over are less rushing. While Henry's had some fumbling issues this season, he's really turned himself around and improved in that area immensely. So unless Gilbride isn't calling the shots... And if not, then perhaps he needs to be.

"Should he have run more? Who knows? Just because Henry was running between the twenties doesn't mean he would have succeeded inside the twenties."

Our passing game surely wasn't working inside the 20s for sure. Other than the drive for the TD to Moulds, Bledsoe was 1 of 9 for a net of 1 yard inside the K.C. red zone. So why not try rushing which had been working all game? Besides, no one is saying 100% rushes. But all but completely abandoning the game was shortsighted and baseless. It simply made no sense. Gilbride has done the same in other games the least of which was the N.E. game. Instead of attacking the 26th ranked rush D which every other team has had success doing, instead, Gilbride attacks their 4th ranked pass D. If that ain't a headscratcher, then I don't know what is.

[WG]

Besides, if our passing game is all that mighty, then how come we had the second lowest total by a long shot of the 10 teams that K.C. has played?

We put up what, 214 net, 225 gross. 7 of 10 teams went over 300 easily. Such marvelous QBs as Kelly Holcomb. The only other team in a loss to K.C. that didn't put up over 300 but put up more than we did passing was the Jets as Pennington was still trying to find his groove.

We need to come out strong next week against the Jets passing, or it ain't gonna be pretty in the media.

[Typ0]

Why do people see KG, master of the run and shoot as a success. The run and shoot is a proven failure. KG has never been successfull. He has had some success but has never really achieved success. He sucks. He's not going to make the adjustments we need him to make and he needs to be shown the door.

[WG]

That's certainly what he's continuing to show here, now, this season!

Everyone applauded TD for landing Gilbride who they said would be able to make Bledsoe shine right from the beginning. Yet, he's getting worse. Our last 6 games will reveal much. But at 18 TDs now, IMO if Bledsoe doesn't at least have 27 by the end of the season, to tie his 2nd-best season performance at N.E., then something is amiss.

I would suggest that it starts w/ Gilbride in this case. If it's not Gibride, then it has to be Bledsoe himself. I'm not ready to write him off. He's still playing the most error-free ball that he's ever played. Since that was the biggest knock against him coming here, I think that's an outstanding improvement!

[TacklingDummy]

Would you rather have Mike SHeppard back?

The offense has hardly been the problem all year.

[Typ0]

That's the problem is who is there who is better? But I never applauded KG he has never impressed me. Now I am disgusted with him because he is a moron.

[TacklingDummy]

He may be a moron but he will be the Bills next head coach. Like it or not.

[WG]

No, but it's sure been the problem over the last 4 games in spite of having beaten Miami on luck and Detroit on such a huge talent discrepancy that about the worst that we could have done was what we did.

We're averaging less than 16 points a game. If that doesn't cause some concern, the I don't know what will. I will guarantee you that if we put up 17-20 or less each game from here on out, we'll win maybe one of them and finish 6-10.

The strongest two teams that we'll face all year are yet to play us and on top of that we have 3 divisional road games left, two of which are on the road.

Somehow if we continue on this pace offensively speaking, I doubt that you'll hold the same viewpoint at the end of the season.

[Typ0]

I mean how stupid can one person be? He nearly lost us the Detroit game and there were similar games earlier in the season. We would have won in KC if he wasn't suck an idiot. I am just sick about this. The worst thing, as I said somewhere else, is we are stuck with him because Drew likes him.

[Typ0]

He may be a moron but he will be the Bills next head coach. Like it or not.

Oh no! Please don't make it so. Gilbride must Go. Throw him out in the snow.

[Typ0]

TDRJ we never did get this straighted out...you are a fin fan right?

[WG]

Originally posted by Typ0
That's the problem is who is there who is better? But I never applauded KG he has never impressed me. Now I am disgusted with him because he is a moron.

IDK know about O.C.s. That's a job for TD. But I know there were better D.C.'s available.

I can tell you that I'd rather have Marvin Lewis as our head coach next year. Since he's only a D.C. at Washington, I believe we could interview him for our H.C. vacancy! :D

[TacklingDummy]

Originally posted by Typ0
I mean how stupid can one person be? He nearly lost us the Detroit game .

Your right. WTF was he thinking handing the ball off to Henry. Doesn't he know Herny fumbles. :ontome:

[Typ0]

It was not handing the ball off that nearly lost that game. We were in just about the same situation KC was in yesterday with 4 mins to go and we went 3 and out...3 incomplete passes.

WYS: I don't want another unproven person as head coach it will be a waste of a potential superbowl team. We need to stick with Williams or get someone who is experienced. Dennis Green might be a good shot.

[TacklingDummy]

Originally posted by Typ0
TDRJ we never did get this straighted out...you are a fin fan right?

Nope. Bills fan.

Blaming KG because we lose games by giving up 28.6 points per game is wrong.

[TacklingDummy]

Originally posted by Typ0
It was not handing the ball off that nearly lost that game. We were in just about the same situation KC was in yesterday with 4 mins to go and we went 3 and out...3 incomplete passes.


Henry's fumble is what nearly cost us the Detroit game.

Everytime Henry touches the ball I get nervous. With the game on the line I rather have the ball in Drew's hand then Henry's.

Henry has to prove he can hold on to the ball.

[WG]

henry's only fumbled once in the last three games. We either need to use him or get rid of him. It makes no sense to keep around a RB that the coaching staff has no faith in and who makes us throw when we should be running. We need to either use him and trust him, or get rid of him if that's the case.

[WG]

BTW, other than Moulds TD, Bledsoe was 1 for 9 for a 1-yard net in the red zone vs. the Chiefs. So I think I rather would be taking my chances w/ Henry under those circumstances.

[Ingtar33]

Originally posted by Wys Guy


Ingtar,

"What does KG's play calling have to do with any of these plays?"

That's easy! We simply weren't passing the ball effectively on Sunday. 200 yards w/ only 1 TD isn't good at all against a D like K.C.s ranked last or near last in just about everything. Gilbride should have gone w/ the rushing game to not only succeed in putting us in a position to score, but also to take some time off the clock. Further, the chances of turning the ball over are less rushing. While Henry's had some fumbling issues this season, he's really turned himself around and improved in that area immensely. So unless Gilbride isn't calling the shots... And if not, then perhaps he needs to be.

"Should he have run more? Who knows? Just because Henry was running between the twenties doesn't mean he would have succeeded inside the twenties."

Our passing game surely wasn't working inside the 20s for sure. Other than the drive for the TD to Moulds, Bledsoe was 1 of 9 for a net of 1 yard inside the K.C. red zone. So why not try rushing which had been working all game? Besides, no one is saying 100% rushes. But all but completely abandoning the game was shortsighted and baseless. It simply made no sense. Gilbride has done the same in other games the least of which was the N.E. game. Instead of attacking the 26th ranked rush D which every other team has had success doing, instead, Gilbride attacks their 4th ranked pass D. If that ain't a headscratcher, then I don't know what is.

Wys,
Our redzone apearances played out like this...
#1
1-10-KC20 (13:03) T. Henry right end to KC 11 for 9 yards (S. Harts, E. Warfield).
2-1-KC11 (12:34) D. Bledsoe pass incomplete to E. Moulds (E. Warfield).
3-1-KC11 (12:30) D. Bledsoe pass to J. Reed to KC 5 for 6 yards (J. Browning).
1-5-KC5 (11:50) D. Bledsoe pass incomplete (M. Maslowski).
2-5-KC5 (11:47) D. Bledsoe pass incomplete to P. Crosby.
3-5-KC5 (11:42) D. Bledsoe pass incomplete to J. Reed.

#2
1-10-KC11 (10:18) PENALTY on BUF-E. Moulds, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at KC 11 - No Play.
1-15-KC16 (9:55) T. Henry right end to KC 9 for 7 yards (S. Harts, E. Hicks).
2-8-KC9 (9:09) D. Bledsoe pass to E. Moulds for 9 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Play Challenged by KC and REVERSED. D. Bledsoe pass incomplete to E. Moulds.
3-8-KC9 (9:03) (Shotgun) D. Bledsoe sacked at KC 15 for -6 yards (E. Freeman).

#3
1-10-KC24 (1:13) D. Bledsoe pass to J. Reed to KC 15 for 9 yards (E. Freeman).
2-1-KC15 (1:08) (Shotgun) D. Bledsoe pass to L. Centers to KC 11 for 4 yards (L. Atkins).
1-10-KC11 (:47) D. Bledsoe pass to L. Centers to KC 7 for 4 yards (C. Harris).
2-6-KC7 (:35) D. Bledsoe pass to E. Moulds for 7 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

#4
1-10-KC15 (4:00) T. Henry left end to KC 10 for 5 yards (M. Maslowski, S. Harts).
2-5-KC10 (3:18) D. Bledsoe pass incomplete to E. Moulds (M. Maslowski).
3-5-KC10 (3:14) D. Bledsoe pass to T. Henry to KC 9 for 1 yard (M. Maslowski).

I only bring these up for this reason... everything in football is situational. You can say that buffalo went into the red zone 4 times and only had 1 TD, that it must be the OC. I say that it is greyer than that. That numbers only tell part of the story. For example...

When we had our first trip into the red zone T.Henry had run the ball 9 times for 29 yards, or a 3.2 average. On that drive Henry had 6 carries for 29 yards, and two catches for 26 yards, in fact he had touched the ball on 7 consecutive plays bringing the Bills from their own 43 to the Chiefs 11. Henry came out on 2nd down at the 11, Moulds dropped the pass in the endzone. Henry stayed out (Centers was in) on third and 1, pass complete to Reed for the first at the 5. Then of course we have three straight passes and a FG. Probably Gilbride's fault for not running Henry on first down, but the play he called was correct (when viewed with no prejudice for the outcome) since Moulds was wide open on the pass attempt; it was just batted down at the line. Definitely Gilbride's fault for not running on second down... however Burns would have walked into the endzone had Drew not overthrown him. On third down, well, I guess we could have tried a draw or something, but again Gilbride put it into the air, and Reed was about 6inches too short for a TD. Footballs a game of inches, would I have run... sure. I would have probably play action faked on first down, then run on second and third. But that’s me, and I'm just a pathetic adherent to Marty ball.

On our second trip we had a false start on first down, ran Henry
for 9, then had a TD called back, then a coverage sack on third down. A drive killed by a dumb penalty and 2 inches of foot. Not Gilbride's fault here.

On our third trip we scored a TD. Can't complain with that.

On our fourth trip we ran on first down for 5 yards, good call. Then it was a pass to Moulds (for a TD) which was dropped, not Gilbride's fault, Eric really should have had this one. Then Gilbride tried a screen, which was blown up by bad blocking... I can fault him with this call because the Bills have yet to block a screen well this year... strange place to call one if you ask me, but in reality this was the equivalent of a draw play on third and 5.

The Bills O which "stalled so brilliantly" in the second half only had the ball 3 times (once on the FG drive, once 3 and out, and the INT drive)... the Chiefs held the ball for nearly 20minutes in that half... Because there was only one three and out, and I really cant blame Gilbride for the INT, you can see why I'm not ready to decapitate him for one 3 and out drive (a 2 yard run by Henry, a 5 yard catch by Price followed by a incompletion on third and a long 3).

Again, I'm not apologizing for Gilbride... just saying he wasn't the prime reason for our loss, and shouldn't be pilloried for it.

[Ingtar33]

BTW: I count Bledsoe at 4-10 for 16yards in the red zone.

[WG]

I'd have to double check, but even that isn't good.

I hear ya though. but I'm talking specifically about our last possession. Bledsoe only had 77 yards passing in the entire second half. Meanwhile, after Henry's 9 carries for 29 yard start as you say, he was then 15 for 97 w/ a 6.5 YPC avg.

Clearly the rushing game was working in the 2nd half while the passing game wasn't. That's why I blame Gilbride. How could anyone not recognize that that was the case. Apparently most people here did, so there's no excuse for Gilbride not to have noticed it.

As you say, things are situational. But that changes throughout the game. Just b/c the run worked in the first half, doesn't mean it will in the 2nd, etc. Henry's rushing was 8 for 47 (6 YPC avg.) in the second half to Drew's 8/14 for 77. It makes sense to me to at minimum mix it up.

On top of that, the ideal situation would have had us run out some time too. It is silly for any Bills coach to give the ball back to a team like the chiefs and think for a second that we could possibly shut them down.

As to Bledsoe:

He had no 1st Q red zone passes.

2nd Q:

2-1-KC11 (12:34) D. Bledsoe pass incomplete to E. Moulds (E. Warfield).
3-1-KC11 (12:30) D. Bledsoe pass to J. Reed to KC 5 for 6 yards (J. Browning).
1-5-KC5 (11:50) D. Bledsoe pass incomplete (M. Maslowski).
2-5-KC5 (11:47) D. Bledsoe pass incomplete to P. Crosby.
3-5-KC5 (11:42) D. Bledsoe pass incomplete to J. Reed.

1/5 for 6 yards

2-8-KC9 (9:09) D. Bledsoe pass to E. Moulds for 9 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Play Challenged by KC and REVERSED. D. Bledsoe pass incomplete to E. Moulds.
3-8-KC9 (9:03) (Shotgun) D. Bledsoe sacked at KC 15 for -6 yards

0/1 w/ 1 sack for a 6 yard loss

1/6 for 6 yards, 0 net yards total

3rd Q:

2-5-KC10 (3:18) D. Bledsoe pass incomplete to E. Moulds (M. Maslowski).
3-5-KC10 (3:14) D. Bledsoe pass to T. Henry to KC 9 for 1 yard (M. Maslowski).

1/2 for 1 yard

2/8 for 7 yards, 1 yard net total

4th Q:

No red zone passes.

So 2/8 for 7 yards then, 1 yard net after the sack.

If you add in the Moulds TD drive, we have:

5/11 for 22 yards, 16 net yards.

Still not great by any stretch. Since the majority of plays in the red zone were passing plays, and since Henry's limited performance suggests that he may have run well, I still think it would have been prudent to run Henry. In any case, this team needs to consider if it wants to keep Henry. But if we are not going to use him inside the red zone, then he's of no use to us. What good is your primary ball carrier if he needs to be replaced inside the 20.

That's another reason why I want to see Henry get more carries. If he's gonna be an issue, better we find out now than midway thru next season, eh.

[WG]

BTW, I also think many peoples' criticism of Gilbride isn't simply over this one game. It's over the entire course of the season so far coupled w/ his history. He has a knack and a bent for discarding the run and going to the passing game inordinately.

[Ingtar33]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
BTW, I also think many peoples' criticism of Gilbride isn't simply over this one game. It's over the entire course of the season so far coupled w/ his history. He has a knack and a bent for discarding the run and going to the passing game inordinately.

Exactly!
That’s what I've been saying! Gilbride is a Run 'n Gun coordinator, that’s what he cut his teeth on, that’s where he learned the trade (in the old USFL). He brought the system to the NFL, and modified it, applying the passing principals to a standard NFL offence, becoming the only Run 'n Gun OC to survive the fall of the system. He foresaw the death of it, and turned into to a unique system that Pittsburg and Jacksonville still run even years after he left.

All I'm saying is that you shouldn't blast a goose for being a goose. Gilbride will never be a smash mouth football disciple. NEVER. This is who we got when we signed him. When things get tough he airs it out. When things get tight he airs it out. When he's behind he airs it out. In Gilbride's world the run is a tool to set up the pass and keep the defense honest. That’s how he sees the game.

Yet the majority of the critiques seem to be that Gilbride passes too much. I'm not disagreeing, just saying that OFCOURSE HE DOES . That’s who he is. Can he run the football? Yes. Should he run it more? Yes.

Just to prove that stats are misleading how's this one which (sarcasm) will exonerate Gilbride... The offence was 1/2 in the red zone when Bledsoe did nothing but pass. And 0/2 in the redzone when they mixed in a run or two. So based on these numbers he should have never run once in the red zone!!!

No, I don't believe this just adding a little humor to the whole thing.

BTW: Wys, I agree with most of your criticism of Gilbride (in the last game). Yes, he should have run more in the red zone. Yes, the passing O was stymied and he should have relied on T.Henry even more. All I'm saying is that Gilbride shouldn’t be pilloried for all our woes. I remember a defense giving the Chiefs 5 free first downs. Or a D which hasn’t got a turnover in what is now a calendar month. How about those offensive penalties which forced out O to move the ball 30 or 40 more yards than necessary on our FG drive in the second half (personally I thought it a miracle we got anything after those dumb penalties).

[Ingtar33]

BTW: When things go bad its just a little simplistic to blame one person, especially since we don't (and will never) know what would have happened had things been done differently. To claim that the Bills would have won or that we lost because he relies on the pass to much is a baseless argument, since there is no evidence to support it (nor will there ever be since time machines don't exist). All we have is data from actual contests, and years of accumulated football wisdom to base our arguments on. I would be surprised if KG ever looks at the statistical numbers our O puts up and says “oh something’s wrong, we only put up X yards against Detroit, which is far lower than what they normally give up,” because football is about winning. If DB throws for 10yards and we win should Gilbride be pilloried for not throwing more, or for having a passing attack which doesn’t work? Personally I could care less about how many yards KC was giving up per game before the Bills rolled into town. Had we lost to the Vikes would anyone have said well Drew threw for too many yards or too often…

So what do I look for in an OC? I look for adjustments, anticipation, bad D match-ups, and other signs of good coaching such as preparation. The only game where I was disappointed in KG was the NE game, I thought it took too long for KG to switch the O-line over to a zone blocking scheme, and I thought he should have thrown out the playbook and run it down their throats until we either won, or forced them into a different more conventional front and DB arrangement, however these are minor critiques since that was a very obscure defensive concept we faced.

[Typ0]

All I'm saying is that you shouldn't blast a goose for being a goose

If I am goose hunting and I see a goose you can bet I am going to blast it. But if I am goose hunting and I see a pigeon I'm not going to blast it because the shot might scare the geese away. Your damn right I'm going to shoot it--it's a goose and geese are what I am looking for.


I'm not disagreeing, just saying that OFCOURSE HE DOES .

Which is exactly why we have to shoot him. We are looking for the goose that is causing us problems. No, it's not his fault he was born a goose but he is a goose none the less.

[Typ0]

The above simile does not imply Gilbride is a goose. In fact, Gilbride is a Turkey and it is almost thanksgiving.

[lunatic_bills_fan]

I still believe the play call that got intercepted was the correct one. They set it up perfectly, running the ball. They dropped back and went for the kill. It was a good call, we had our WR in man to man, and there are only like 2-3 corners in this league that can stay with our WR's man to man. He took the shot and made a poor throw. But the call was right. That being said, Im not defending KG on all ocassions, because he has made some poor choices. I thnk I'll have to wait till the end of the year before I can make my mind up about him. However the jusy was out on JG for me in week 3 I think.

[colin]

I think a 4 or 5% tip from passing to running will put us over.