Playoff Hopes Die in Two Weeks...

[Drewpac]

As much as I want to believe the Bills will make the playoffs, I just don't see it happening. I've been thinking a lot about that Cincy game and I really don't think we're gonna pull out the win. There are three things that lead me to feel this way:

(1) Cincy is just as hot as we are. The Bungles are 5-2 over their last 7 games with their only losses being squeakers to Tenn on the road and Pitt at home. They very easily could have won all seven of those games. During their streak they've defeated a couple of very solid teams in Balt and Denver. Their other three victories were decisive wins over lesser teams.

(2) The Bills "Hot" streak has come primarily against crappy teams. I believe this streak has masked the fact that we are still a mediocre team. During our 6-2 stretch we've only played what I would consider three good teams. We narrowly won against the Jets at home, and we were manhandled by the Pats and Ravens on the road. The rest of the teams we played during this stretch were awful (the Rams and Hawks would have 3 wins apiece if they were in the AFC).

(3) The game is in Cincy. This is the most important factor. We've only played one good road game all season. Bledsoe is due for a "nightmare" game soon. And the defense has shown they are susceptible to a good passing team on the road. Add to this the fact that their stadium will be rocking. This game will be played in a playoff atmosphere. I think that alone will be too tough to overcome. I believe our only hope is if NE crushes the Bengals this weekend and knocks the wind out of their sails. If this occurs, I give us a chance.

[clumping platelets]

:mad:

[G. Host]

:mad:

I ditto that and add if we lose it is Drewpac's fault :shocked:

[The King]

Not only do we beat cincy. We beat Cincy with the Passing game. Drew will not allow himself to fall and take this team out of the running. And when we will and beat the bungles I suggest you change your name to Carsonpac I bet the mods could arrange it.

[The Natrix]

Losing to the Browns would suck.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

Thanks a lot Drewpac, merry christmas to you too. :fury:

[Ebenezer]

As much as I want to believe the Bills will make the playoffs, I just don't see it happening. I've been thinking a lot about that Cincy game and I really don't think we're gonna pull out the win. There are three things that lead me to feel this way:

(1) Cincy is just as hot as we are. The Bungles are 5-2 over their last 7 games with their only losses being squeakers to Tenn on the road and Pitt at home. They very easily could have won all seven of those games. During their streak they've defeated a couple of very solid teams in Balt and Denver. Their other three victories were decisive wins over lesser teams.

(2) The Bills "Hot" streak has come primarily against crappy teams. I believe this streak has masked the fact that we are still a mediocre team. During our 6-2 stretch we've only played what I would consider three good teams. We narrowly won against the Jets at home, and we were manhandled by the Pats and Ravens on the road. The rest of the teams we played during this stretch were awful (the Rams and Hawks would have 3 wins apiece if they were in the AFC).

(3) The game is in Cincy. This is the most important factor. We've only played one good road game all season. Bledsoe is due for a "nightmare" game soon. And the defense has shown they are susceptible to a good passing team on the road. Add to this the fact that their stadium will be rocking. This game will be played in a playoff atmosphere. I think that alone will be too tough to overcome. I believe our only hope is if NE crushes the Bengals this weekend and knocks the wind out of their sails. If this occurs, I give us a chance.
On a cold windy day in December? I'll take McGahee and our DL/LB to beat Johnson and their DL/RB...although I wish this game was in Buffalo.

[Tatonka]

drew always beats crappy teams.. and he may not be aware that they are good yet.. therefore he may beat them..

if someone tells him that they are good though.. look out.. drew will automatically turn the ball over 4 times.

[Drewpac]

I ditto that and add if we lose it is Drewpac's fault :shocked:

But think of how good it will feel to bump this thread and watch me eat crow if we win. :winkpunch

[Tatonka]

Thanks a lot Drewpac, merry christmas to you too. :fury:


:bikerbabe

[Drewpac]

drew always beats crappy teams.. and he may not be aware that they are good yet.. therefore he may beat them..

if someone tells him that they are good though.. look out.. drew will automatically turn the ball over 4 times.

Good point. But Drew doesn't always beat crappy teams on the road. Look no further than the Raiders game this year and the Houston game last year. If the Cincy game was at home I would almost guarantee a Bills' victory.

[finsrclowns]

But think of how good it will feel to bump this thread and watch me eat crow if we win. :winkpunch

But I'm curious as to the motivation for the post. Is it:

a) predicting failure insulates your feelings from a let down if we do lose.
b) you enjoy being able to say "I was right" if Drew does have a bad game.
c) You're just a negative Nancy and the day after a nice win you feel the urge to piss in everyone's cornflakes.

[Mr. Cynical]

drew always beats crappy teams.. and he may not be aware that they are good yet.. therefore he may beat them..

if someone tells him that they are good though.. look out.. drew will automatically turn the ball over 4 times.
:rofl:

[Drewpac]

Not only do we beat cincy. We beat Cincy with the Passing game. Drew will not allow himself to fall and take this team out of the running.

:coocoo: I'm sure you say the same thing before every game vs the Pats. I've heard this "drew will not allow himself to fail" baloney so many times I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. If we beat Cincy it will be because of the D, big ST's plays, and McGahee.

[Michael82]

Not only do we beat cincy. We beat Cincy with the Passing game. Drew will not allow himself to fall and take this team out of the running. And when we will and beat the bungles I suggest you change your name to Carsonpac I bet the mods could arrange it.
Yeah, it is something that can be done. :snicker:

[The King]

Yeah, it is something that can be done. :snicker:

Nothing says I ate crow like a temporary change in username

[Drewpac]

But I'm curious as to the motivation for the post. Is it:

a) predicting failure insulates your feelings from a let down if we do lose.
b) you enjoy being able to say "I was right" if Drew does have a bad game.
c) You're just a negative Nancy and the day after a nice win you feel the urge to piss in everyone's cornflakes.

Mostly "a" with a little "c" thrown in. Definitely, not b. I would never take delight in Drew's/the Bills failures.

I just wanted to point out that everyone is looking ahead to that Pittsburgh game when the real tough test will be on the road at Cincy. I feel much more confident about our chances at home against Pitt than I do against the Bengals on the road. I was hoping people would realize that we've got a very tough test ahead of us in two weeks. I don't want a bunch of people piling on the Bills after that game and complaining about Mularkey, Drew, etc. when there would be no shame in a loss.

[Michael82]

Nothing says I ate crow like a temporary change in username
:hi5:

[The King]

Mostly "a" with a little "c" thrown in. Definitely, not b. I would never take delight in Drew's/the Bills failures.

I just wanted to point out that everyone is looking ahead to that Pittsburgh game when the real tough test will be on the road at Cincy. I feel much more confident about our chances at home against Pitt than I do against the Bengals on the road. I was hoping people would realize that we've got a very tough test ahead of us in two weeks. I don't want a bunch of people piling on the Bills after that game and complaining about Mularkey, Drew, etc. when there would be no shame in a loss.

We should have TV back for that game also...No shame in a loss!? We are better than Cincy. If you lose to a team that your better than there is shame to be had, It will eliminate us from the playoffs your right its not shameful its disgusting.

There are only like 4 teams in the NFL that there is no shame in losing to. And Cincy aint one.

[Forward_Lateral]

We should have TV back for that game also...No shame in a loss!? We are better than Cincy. If you lose to a team that your better than there is shame to be had, It will eliminate us from the playoffs your right its not shameful its disgusting.

There are only like 4 teams in the NFL that there is no shame in losing to. And Cincy aint one.

Amen!!!

[Drewpac]

We should have TV back for that game also...No shame in a loss!? We are better than Cincy. If you lose to a team that your better than there is shame to be had, It will eliminate us from the playoffs your right its not shameful its disgusting.

There are only like 4 teams in the NFL that there is no shame in losing to. And Cincy aint one.

At best we are equal with Cincy. They have the better offense and we have the better defense. If this game were at home the edge would go to the Bills.

[FTG]

Nothing says I ate crow like a temporary change in username

So if Drew sucks against Cinci like Drewpac expects are you gonna change your username to MB******?

[Iehoshua]

So if Drew sucks against Cinci like Drewpac expects are you gonna change your username to MB******?

:rofl:

[The King]

So if Drew sucks against Cinci like Drewpac expects are you gonna change your username to MB******?

Gladly..

[Iehoshua]

Gladly..
Uh oh I smell a bet.
:biggrin:

[steJ]

Hard to completely disagree with the original poster. Cincy has 10X the offense the pathetic Phins do, and though I only cought a few minuts of the game 32 points is 32 points. You guys escaped with a win but I can promise the Bengals won't be a pushover like the Phins should have been.

This is shaping up to be a but more stressfull then I would have imagined. I still think you guys miss the playoffs this year, but no one can write you off just yet. A Jet win in Pitt next week should knock you guys out, but I'm not positive of this. I know a Jet win coupled with losses by Buffalo and KC gets us in, but I'm not sure of the scenario if we both win. Anybody got the 411?

[FTG]

Hard to completely disagree with the original poster. Cincy has 10X the offense the pathetic Phins do, and though I only cought a few minuts of the game 32 points is 32 points. You guys escaped with a win but I can promise the Bengals won't be a pushover like the Phins should have been.

This is shaping up to be a but more stressfull then I would have imagined. I still think you guys miss the playoffs this year, but no one can write you off just yet. A Jet win in Pitt next week should knock you guys out, but I'm not positive of this. I know a Jet win coupled with losses by Buffalo and KC gets us in, but I'm not sure of the scenario if we both win. Anybody got the 411?

I'm conceding the first wildcard to the Jets. We need Denver, Baltimore and the Jags to lose.

[Iehoshua]

Hard to completely disagree with the original poster. Cincy has 10X the offense the pathetic Phins do, and though I only cought a few minuts of the game 32 points is 32 points. You guys escaped with a win but I can promise the Bengals won't be a pushover like the Phins should have been.

This is shaping up to be a but more stressfull then I would have imagined. I still think you guys miss the playoffs this year, but no one can write you off just yet. A Jet win in Pitt next week should knock you guys out, but I'm not positive of this. I know a Jet win coupled with losses by Buffalo and KC gets us in, but I'm not sure of the scenario if we both win. Anybody got the 411?

Very little hope of taking the Jets' spot so what they do is irrelevant to me. Its the Ravens, Broncos, Bengals, and Jaguars we're concerned with now, along with winning out.

[The King]

:coocoo: I'm sure you say the same thing before every game vs the Pats. I've heard this "drew will not allow himself to fail" baloney so many times I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. If we beat Cincy it will be because of the D, big ST's plays, and McGahee.


You can call me crazy thats fine. I go into every single week on cloud nine expecting a win. I anticipate every game. It keeps me excited about football as a fan why would I walk around predicting losses!? I know what the factors are week to week, I know our teams strengths and weaknesses, but I always find myself on the up side. We can beat them if..... opposed to we are going to get our asses kicked because....

[BAM]

You can call me crazy thats fine. I go into every single week on cloud nine expecting a win. I anticipate every game. It keeps me excited about football as a fan why would I walk around predicting losses!? I know what the factors are week to week, I know our teams strengths and weaknesses, but I always find myself on the up side. We can beat them if..... opposed to we are going to get our asses kicked because....

:10: :10: :10:

:smoke:

[steJ]

I'm conceding the first wildcard to the Jets. We need Denver, Baltimore and the Jags to lose.

Yea, we should get the WC spot at least. Some of us still have hope for a division title this season. Unlikely, but really no more then the Bills snagging a WC spot. Thats no disrespect either, were a totally different team with CP back there. And the fact that we have one of the best defenses in the league dosent hurt either. Keep it up though, I can honestly say that I would want another AFCE team in the playoffs if we falter...the division's gotta represent.

[Drewpac]

Uh oh I smell a bet.
:biggrin:

I was initially tempted to take that bet but I could never root against the Bills. Just because I think the Bills will lose in Cincy and Bledsoe will play like crap, doesn't mean that I want it to happen. MBBedard already proved that his username should be switched to the one you suggested, with his "Drew will not let this team fall" line. :dizzy:

[Iehoshua]

I was initially tempted to take that bet but I could never root against the Bills. Just because I think the Bills will lose in Cincy and Bledsoe will play like crap, doesn't mean that I want it to happen. MBBedard already proved that his username should be switched to the one you suggested, with his "Drew will not let this team fall" line. :dizzy:

I didn't suggest anything! I am just an observer!

For the rest of Buffalo's games, we will either win, lose, or tie. Anyone wanna take this bet? I'll bet 1.54 zonebucks!
:dance:

[The King]

I was initially tempted to take that bet but I could never root against the Bills. Just because I think the Bills will lose in Cincy and Bledsoe will play like crap, doesn't mean that I want it to happen. MBBedard already proved that his username should be switched to the one you suggested, with his "Drew will not let this team fall" line. :dizzy:

All I was saying is that he has finally re-gained the confidence of his teamates and the fans. I dont see him throwing that away. I believe. And part of believing is believing Drew wont screw it up.

[Drewpac]

All I was saying is that he has finally re-gained the confidence of his teamates and the fans. I dont see him throwing that away. I believe. And part of believing is believing Drew wont screw it up.

That's the difference between you and I. I have hope but I don't have any faith. I have seen Bledsoe screw up too many times to believe in him any longer. It's going to take more than three decent games against mediocre competition to make me believe Drew can get it done. I actually believe in the rest of our team. If Drew is instrumental to leading us to the playoffs that will go a long way in restoring my faith in him.

[lordofgun]

As much as I want to believe the Bills will make the playoffs, I just don't see it happening. I've been thinking a lot about that Cincy game and I really don't think we're gonna pull out the win. There are three things that lead me to feel this way:

(1) Cincy is just as hot as we are. The Bungles are 5-2 over their last 7 games with their only losses being squeakers to Tenn on the road and Pitt at home. They very easily could have won all seven of those games. During their streak they've defeated a couple of very solid teams in Balt and Denver. Their other three victories were decisive wins over lesser teams.

(2) The Bills "Hot" streak has come primarily against crappy teams. I believe this streak has masked the fact that we are still a mediocre team. During our 6-2 stretch we've only played what I would consider three good teams. We narrowly won against the Jets at home, and we were manhandled by the Pats and Ravens on the road. The rest of the teams we played during this stretch were awful (the Rams and Hawks would have 3 wins apiece if they were in the AFC).

(3) The game is in Cincy. This is the most important factor. We've only played one good road game all season. Bledsoe is due for a "nightmare" game soon. And the defense has shown they are susceptible to a good passing team on the road. Add to this the fact that their stadium will be rocking. This game will be played in a playoff atmosphere. I think that alone will be too tough to overcome. I believe our only hope is if NE crushes the Bengals this weekend and knocks the wind out of their sails. If this occurs, I give us a chance.
Remind me to punch you next time I see you. :mad:

[The King]

That's the difference between you and I. I have hope but I don't have any faith. I have seen Bledsoe screw up too many times to believe in him any longer. It's going to take more than three decent games against mediocre competition to make me believe Drew can get it done. I actually believe in the rest of our team. If Drew is instrumental to leading us to the playoffs that will go a long way in restoring my faith in him.


http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-PASSING/2004/regular?sort_col_1=8

Miami is top 5 against the pass... thats mediocre? I would say their pass defense is pretty friggin good. They average 160 yards allowed on D? Drew had 277...

It just seems to me that some people would rather see Drew fail to prove they were right than have Drew succeed and win.

[FTG]

It just seems to me that some people would rather see Drew fail to prove they were right than have Drew succeed and win.


Then you are percieving us wrong. We just happen to believe he can't do it over the long term. If he proves us wrong and we keep winning thats fine with me.

[Iehoshua]

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-PASSING/2004/regular?sort_col_1=8

Miami is top 5 against the pass... thats mediocre? I would say their pass defense is pretty friggin good. They average 160 yards allowed on D? Drew had 277...

It just seems to me that some people would rather see Drew fail to prove they were right than have Drew succeed and win.

I don't want to see Drew fail but seeing it as often as I have has made me tired of it. As of late, it's been better, agreed, but I still can't shake the feeling he will have a letdown.

Another issue I have with the Miami game, 7 count'em SEVEN turnovers and we win by 10. Ten points. Seven to one turnover ratio against a 2-9 team(at the time) and we take it down to the wire pretty much? Something isn't right about that picture...

[Iehoshua]

Then you are percieving us wrong. We just happen to believe he can't do it over the long term. If he proves us wrong and we keep winning thats fine with me.

Amen.

...but we're still haters you know.
:crazy:

[Drewpac]

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-PASSING/2004/regular?sort_col_1=8

Miami is top 5 against the pass... thats mediocre? I would say their pass defense is pretty friggin good. They average 160 yards allowed on D? Drew had 277...

It just seems to me that some people would rather see Drew fail to prove they were right than have Drew succeed and win.

Your post is proof that certain statistics are misleading. First, and foremost, Dolphin opponents are almost always playing with the lead. When you have the lead, you tend to run the ball more to try and chew up some clock. If you look at those wonderful stats again you'll see that the Fins rank 22nd against the run. Combine the fact that teams are usually playing with the lead against the Fins with the fact that they have a poor rushing D and you end up with the Fins passing D rank. The Bills were playing from behind yesterday and were forced to throw, thus exposing the Fins pass defense for the mediocre unit that they are. Take a look at the Passing D stats again. The Fins have allowed 15 TD's to only 7 INT's. They've also faced the least amount of passing attempts in the NFL. Those aren't very impressive numbers.

[don137]

Cincy on the road scares me more than Pittsburgh at home right now.
I am hoping Spikes will play lights out in his return to Cincinnatti. Cincy has a bad run defense so hopefully we can pound it down there throats...

[The King]

Another issue I have with the Miami game, 7 count'em SEVEN turnovers and we win by 10. Ten points. Seven to one turnover ratio against a 2-9 team(at the time) and we take it down to the wire pretty much? Something isn't right about that picture...


I have the same issue and it lies with the defense. They sucked balls in the first half they didnt play their game. End of story.

I share a lot of your concerns with the future of the team and who the leader should be. I just have more concerns with Losman than with Bledsoe... I agree with most of you once we are eliminated bring him in. And IF Bledsoe does cost us a loss then its Losmans show but I think Bledsoe is our best chance and I will back him.

[Iehoshua]

I have the same issue and it lies with the defense. They sucked balls in the first half they didnt play their game. End of story.

I share a lot of your concerns with the future of the team and who the leader should be. I just have more concerns with Losman than with Bledsoe... I agree with most of you once we are eliminated bring him in. And IF Bledsoe does cost us a loss then its Losmans show but I think Bledsoe is our best chance and I will back him.

I agree that Drew is giving us the best chance to win, until he proves otherwise. I still have him on a very short leash in my mind.

[Michael82]

Remind me to punch you next time I see you. :mad:
:snicker: I will!

[Drewpac]

:snicker: I will!

Alright, you can find me this weekend in the Tops Family Section. :winkpunch

[Michael82]

Alright, you can find me this weekend in the Tops Family Section. :winkpunch
Sweet...you are going to be there? Come tailgate with a bunch of other Zoners....Philster, helmetguy, Sabre Ally, mush69, cordog, clump, Eb, and maybe even Dozerdog. :up:

[TedMock]

Cincy on the road scares me more than Pittsburgh at home right now.
I am hoping Spikes will play lights out in his return to Cincinnatti. Cincy has a bad run defense so hopefully we can pound it down there throats...

The Cincy game scares me the most as well. They should come out fighting, seeing that they'll still be mathematically in, even with a loss this week. This game will be a must win for them, as much as it is for us. However, I hope to god that we don't overlook the Browns. Maybe the first half of yesterday's game was a nice little reminder that "ain't none of 'em gonna be easy."

[Typ0]

Cincy is playing very well. They were in a close game last week against a great defense...and carson palmer looked increadible. Look at his numbers from last week...outside of a pick he was near perfect and put the team in a position to win. Next week if they play as well they WILL have the opportunity to beat NE in Gillette...win or lose both games are going to be draining for them emotionally and physically. We will be able to beat them in their house! But we need to play very well to do it :D

[Mr. Cynical]

That's the difference between you and I. I have hope but I don't have any faith. I have seen Bledsoe screw up too many times to believe in him any longer. It's going to take more than three decent games against mediocre competition to make me believe Drew can get it done. I actually believe in the rest of our team. If Drew is instrumental to leading us to the playoffs that will go a long way in restoring my faith in him.
Bingo. :up:

[helmetguy]

How good is Cincy REALLY playing? Cleveland hung nearly half a buck on them two weeks ago, and they snuck past a Ravens team that is much more offensively challenged than we were for the better part of the season (with Baltimore rolling up 356 yards of offense-192 rushing).

[Canadian'eh!]

How good is Cincy REALLY playing? Cleveland hung nearly half a buck on them two weeks ago, and they snuck past a Ravens team that is much more offensively challenged than we were for the better part of the season (with Baltimore rolling up 356 yards of offense-192 rushing).

:clap:

[ScottLawrence]

How good is Cincy REALLY playing? Cleveland hung nearly half a buck on them two weeks ago, and they snuck past a Ravens team that is much more offensively challenged than we were for the better part of the season (with Baltimore rolling up 356 yards of offense-192 rushing).



Wow, at least give the Bengals SOME credit.


They came back from 17 down in the 4th quarter, against one of the best defense's(if not the best), ON THE ROAD!

I'd say thats a tremendous win and, a great step forward for Palmer.

To tell you all the truth, I think Bledsoe is going to fall flat on his face in this game, like he always seems to in big games.

[Canadian'eh!]

Wow, at least give the Bengals SOME credit.


They came back from 17 down in the 4th quarter, against one of the best defense's(if not the best), ON THE ROAD!

I'd say thats a tremendous win and, a great step forward for Palmer.

To tell you all the truth, I think Bledsoe is going to fall flat on his face in this game, like he always seems to in big games.


Are you a Bills fan or a Cincy fan.... I'm serious.

[helmetguy]

I'd give Cincy more credit if they hadn't prefaced that last win by giving up 462 yards and 48 points to Cleveland the week before. 413 passing yards to.....Kelly Holcomb?

[Canadian'eh!]

I'd give Cincy more credit if they hadn't prefaced that last win by giving up 462 yards and 48 points to Cleveland the week before. 413 passing yards to.....Kelly Holcomb?


and the fact that Cincy will be all but out of the playoffs this week after they lose to New England.

[cordog]

I'd give Cincy more credit if they hadn't prefaced that last win by giving up 462 yards and 48 points to Cleveland the week before. 413 passing yards to.....Kelly Holcomb?


Hey watch it. Some people around here will say he is better than Drew.

[Crisis]

Cinci has no D. If they stack the line for McGahee, Evans will burn them deep.

Let's not look ahead though. We're not playing Cinci this week.

Lets kick the brownie's ass before we look ahead. This game is just important as any.

[FTG]

Are you a Bills fan or a Cincy fan.... I'm serious.
prime example of you trying to start arguements. Someone can't give thier opinion withouy you saying they are not really a Bills fan? Grow up!

[Canadian'eh!]

prime example of you trying to start arguements. Someone can't give thier opinion withoug you saying they are not really a Bills fan? Grow up!


I am not in the LEAST trying to start an arguement. I just saw his avatar was Takeo as Bengal and i thought maybe he was a Bengals fan who likes to chat with Bills fans because we have a player he really likes. I was just wondering if his analysis is as a Bills fan or a Bengals fan. I don't know him at all so how could i possibly know either way?

don't put words in my mouth!

[Mr. Cynical]

The Cincy game scares me the most as well. They should come out fighting, seeing that they'll still be mathematically in, even with a loss this week. This game will be a must win for them, as much as it is for us. However, I hope to god that we don't overlook the Browns. Maybe the first half of yesterday's game was a nice little reminder that "ain't none of 'em gonna be easy."
Very true.

[Drewpac]

To tell you all the truth, I think Bledsoe is going to fall flat on his face in this game, like he always seems to in big games.

This is my biggest fear. If he somehow pulls it together and plays well THEN we have a shot at victory. If he stinks it up, we're DOA.

[Canadian'eh!]

I am not in the LEAST trying to start an arguement. I just saw his avatar was Takeo as Bengal and i thought maybe he was a Bengals fan who likes to chat with Bills fans because we have a player he really likes. I was just wondering if his analysis is as a Bills fan or a Bengals fan. I don't know him at all so how could i possibly know either way?

don't put words in my mouth!


So you are not going to acknowledge you were wrong FTG? thanks a lot.

[FTG]

So you are not going to acknowledge you were wrong FTG? thanks a lot.

what do you want me to do. Say I'm sorry in every thread we've been going back and forth in. I can't keep track of them all :snicker:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=61052&page=3

[CuseJetsFan83]

to quote jimmy v...... dont give up, dont ever give up

as a die hard fan of any team, you don't want to admit defeat, thats why when there is that ever so slight glimpse of light you go for it.......... until u see an icon saying ELIMINATED, dont quit!