ND to interview Clements on Thursday

[Demon]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/08/sports/ncaafootball/08hirings.html?oref=login

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This story is breaking news and is being talked about currently on sporting news radio. This story will print in Wed's issue of the NY Times.

I hate to say it because i like what he's done and would like us to remain the same, but good luck Tom!

[Mr. Cynical]

Gary O'Hagan, the agent for Clements, said that when Irish Athletic Director Kevin White called <ALT-CODE idsrc="nyt-geo" value="Iowa" />Iowa Coach Kirk Ferentz to gauge his interest in the job, Ferentz recommended Clements. O'Hagan said Clements was interested in the job. When Holtz retired from Notre Dame after the 1996 season, Clements pushed hard to get the job. The Irish hired Bob Davie instead.

Two other candidates took themselves off the list yesterday. Louisville's Bobby Petrino and <ALT-CODE idsrc="nyt-geo" value="Wisconsin" />Wisconsin's Barry Alvarez said they were happy with their jobs.

Interesting. So one way to read this is TC is not happy with his job? All I know is that I hope whatever happens, happens quickly. Learning yet another system for these guys is going to be rough, so we need to make the change quick before they get too aclimated to TC.

[G. Host]

From your quote he was interested in 1996. A lot has changed in college football since then.

After reading article it may just be a courtsey call or what they call a "practice interview". If they throw the kitchen sink he may bite but everyone has that major figure they would throw current job away for.

Remember he was QB coach in Pittsburgh and Mularchy is a offense-minded coach; likely the offense system has major input from Mularchy anyways.

[NapalmDeath]

I thought they couldn't interview assistants until after the season/and or playoffs? Or is that just for NFL jobs?

[Philagape]

So one way to read this is TC is not happy with his job?

I think being head coach of Notre Dame (even when it's not one's alma mater) is more enticing than being an NFL assistant under any circumstances

[Jan Reimers]

I think being head coach of Notre Dame (even when it's not one's alma mater) is more enticing than being an NFL assistant under any circumstances
Exactly. Who could blame Clements for taking what is still one of the most prestigious, highest profile positions in all of college football?

[Tatonka]

I think being head coach of Notre Dame (even when it's not one's alma mater) is more enticing than being an NFL assistant under any circumstances


i disagree.. especially at ND.. their acedemic standards are so high now that the majority of great athletes are ruled out of recruiting because they cant get in.. ND has no chance of winning.. why do you think so many coaches have competely turned their nose up at the job?

ND is not near what it used to be.. and i dont think leaving the nfl after half a season of being a OC is necessarily a great career move..especially to be the next losing head coach at ND that will probably be fired in the next 2 years.

[finsrclowns]

Exactly. Who could blame Clements for taking what is still one of the most prestigious, highest profile positions in all of college football?

Me. We need him here. It will be chaos if he leaves. Even if he stays for the remainder of the season he will be severely distracted. But I'll bet he gets it. The ND job is no longer what it once was. Meyer going to FL showed that. Because of the academic restrictions a coach faces, the ND job is one step above the Nebraska job but there are probably a dozen college jobs more desirable. ND has the alumni factor working to attract Clements but with their schedule and admisssion requirements you better be superman if you want to win big at ND.

[Dozerdog]

i disagree.. especially at ND.. their acedemic standards are so high now that the majority of great athletes are ruled out of recruiting because they cant get in.. ND has no chance of winning.. why do you think so many coaches have competely turned their nose up at the job?

ND is not near what it used to be.. and i dont think leaving the nfl after half a season of being a OC is necessarily a great career move..especially to be the next losing head coach at ND that will probably be fired in the next 2 years.
The acedemic standards are a part of it- but they had former Notre Dame great Tim Brown on the Sirius NFL Channel last week and they were discussing the TW firing.

Brown said a MAJOR concern of some of the best black players is South Bend itself. Weather sucks half the year, and both players and parents bring up the concern of a lack of a large african-american population on campus. (including young ladies). Not to say that these players are out looking to get laid or anything, but even going out to the movies or sharing a burger & a shake - it's tough to find people to go out with there.

He said for ND tyo improve the recruiting process is to get a lot of famous alumni to go back and help recruit.

[Tatonka]

well that is not going to happen over the next coaches watch.. that just wont change that fast.

the next coach to go there is going to lose.. and almost everyone knows it..

thus, guys like the head coach of kansas... friggen kansas... have turned down the ND job.

[Tatonka]

they should call back george oleary... i am sure he has his resume straight by now.

[Ebenezer]

i disagree.. especially at ND.. their acedemic standards are so high now that the majority of great athletes are ruled out of recruiting because they cant get in.. ND has no chance of winning.. why do you think so many coaches have competely turned their nose up at the job?

ND is not near what it used to be.. and i dont think leaving the nfl after half a season of being a OC is necessarily a great career move..especially to be the next losing head coach at ND that will probably be fired in the next 2 years.
I'd take the ND job in a heartbeat....

[Tatonka]

I'd take the ND job in a heartbeat....


so would most other janitors ..


:snicker:



:jk:

[Ebenezer]

they should call back george oleary... i am sure he has his resume straight by now.
his Central Florida team was winless and got beat by UB...pass.

[Jan Reimers]

I'd take the ND job in a heartbeat....
And so will Clements, I'm sure. Notre Dame is still one of the top universities - academically and athletically - in the country. As an alum, Clements will be chomping at the bit to return Notre Dame football to national prominence.

I know it's hard for a lot of us Bills' fans to comprehend, but head coach at Notre Dame is viewed by many as WAY better than assistant coach with the Buffalo Bills.

[Ebenezer]

And so will Clements, I'm sure. Notre Dame is still one of the top universities - academically and athletically - in the country. As an alum, Clements will be chomping at the bit to return Notre Dame football to national prominence.

I know it's hard for a lot of us Bills' fans to comprehend, but head coach at Notre Dame is viewed by many as WAY better than assistant coach with the Buffalo Bills.
I am not an Alum but a fan for over 30 years...hell, if I won the lottery I would go there as a history major...the experience of ND football and the campus and the whole community is insane...

[ryjam282]

I agree, I don't think he will be looking to jump ship with us yet. We are a team on the rist and ND is clearly a team on the bottom rung of it's life. They are consistently out of the top 25 and aren't looking to come back anytime soon. So many people have said it, they can't get the players in there to make a difference because of the academic standards. What does Tom Clements think he can do?

Not to mention,the new AD that is coming in next year is said to be a largely academic guy where as the old one was an athletic guy by all accounts. The new AD won't bend on the standards thus keeping ND a team that will be stuck in mediocrity and still have a national tv contract...crazy....

Hell, put the canes on national TV, at least they have been in the national title hunt for the past 25 years (except during those few probation years ) :dance:

[Tatonka]

I know it's hard for a lot of us Bills' fans to comprehend, but head coach at Notre Dame is viewed by many as WAY better than assistant coach with the Buffalo Bills.


i simply disagree.. the HC job at ND WAS viewed by many as way better than an assistant nfl coaching job..

but clements has to be realistic.. he is not turning around that program.. there is far too much to fix.. and he will be fired before it gets done..

so now he has been a OC in the nfl for half a year.. and left for the first job offer he got.. sucked at ND.. and then what does he expect to do after he gets fired for not turning around a program that is not what it once was? you thin that someone is just going to throw him another OC position in 2-3 years? i doubt it..

i think if he takes the job.. he is killing his own career.

[ryjam282]

i simply disagree.. the HC job at ND WAS viewed by many as way better than an assistant nfl coaching job..

but clements has to be realistic.. he is not turning around that program.. there is far too much to fix.. and he will be fired before it gets done..

so now he has been a OC in the nfl for half a year.. and left for the first job offer he got.. sucked at ND.. and then what does he expect to do after he gets fired for not turning around a program that is not what it once was? you thin that someone is just going to throw him another OC position in 2-3 years? i doubt it..

i think if he takes the job.. he is killing his own career.


I agree with everything said. Very good post T, pos rep on the way...:up:

[Ebenezer]

i simply disagree.. the HC job at ND WAS viewed by many as way better than an assistant nfl coaching job..

but clements has to be realistic.. he is not turning around that program.. there is far too much to fix.. and he will be fired before it gets done..

so now he has been a OC in the nfl for half a year.. and left for the first job offer he got.. sucked at ND.. and then what does he expect to do after he gets fired for not turning around a program that is not what it once was? you thin that someone is just going to throw him another OC position in 2-3 years? i doubt it..

i think if he takes the job.. he is killing his own career.
that is not the point...it is a dream job for those connected to ND.

[Tatonka]

that is not the point...it is a dream job for those connected to ND.


it is a dream job for someone who is not interested in furthering a career and wants to drop himself back to the bottom of the nfl ladder just to get a shot at a head coaching job he cant win at...

[TedMock]

i disagree.. especially at ND.. their acedemic standards are so high now that the majority of great athletes are ruled out of recruiting because they cant get in.. ND has no chance of winning.. why do you think so many coaches have competely turned their nose up at the job?

ND is not near what it used to be.. and i dont think leaving the nfl after half a season of being a OC is necessarily a great career move..especially to be the next losing head coach at ND that will probably be fired in the next 2 years.

Agreed. When I was a kid, ND was THE PLACE to coach and play. Now, it doesn't hold half the weight it once did. They have that great TV contract, but a big reason for that is the fact that they have the biggest and strongest alumni in the country. For any of us over the age of 30, Notre Dame is a top-tier football school. I'd be willing to bet that most of the younger crowd doesn't feel that way. They've been mediocre to above-average for the last 10 years. Obviously they've had a season, here and there, but not consistently. Heck, my school (Maryland) is getting more national attention at this point, and they just came off of a terrible season.

[ryjam282]

It is a dream job, definitely...Anyone would want to go to ND with the history they have had and be the guy that turned it around. But, unfortunately that really isn't possible. Take a look at the majority of the blue chip athletes coming out of high school these days, not to sound racist at all, but they are thugs. They can barely spell there names correctly. 700 on the SAT isn't good enough to get into ND. It is for pretty much any other school in the US though and that is the sole reason that ND will not be a power again....You can't sugar coat crap, it is still crap.

[Ebenezer]

It is a dream job, definitely...Anyone would want to go to ND with the history they have had and be the guy that turned it around. But, unfortunately that really isn't possible. Take a look at the majority of the blue chip athletes coming out of high school these days, not to sound racist at all, but they are thugs. They can barely spell there names correctly. 700 on the SAT isn't good enough to get into ND. It is for pretty much any other school in the US though and that is the sole reason that ND will not be a power again....You can't sugar coat crap, it is still crap.
Forgive me for thinking all schools should be like that...too bad they want to take the high road....personally, all those unable to meet the standards that have to met by all others who go to that school can go pump gas, flip burgers or peddle their wares.

[Tatonka]

Forgive me for thinking all schools should be like that...too bad they want to take the high road....personally, all those unable to meet the standards that have to met by all others who go to that school can go pump gas, flip burgers or peddle their wares.


look... i personally could not meet the SAT standards at ND.. and i am not an idiot.. i got a degree from virginia tech.. but they require something in the range of 1300 on SATS.. i am pretty sure that the MAJORITY of people on this board didnt break that.. and we didnt have to worry about playing football and trying to get a scholarship for college.

[ryjam282]

Forgive me for thinking all schools should be like that...too bad they want to take the high road....personally, all those unable to meet the standards that have to met by all others who go to that school can go pump gas, flip burgers or peddle their wares.


I don't think it is all that wrong, but bottom line is, not too many players are really that smart. So, if you want a successful program you have to adjust some things. That is just how it works. I do agree with T though, that the standards are a bit high....




look... i personally could not meet the SAT standards at ND.. and i am not an idiot.. i got a degree from virginia tech.. but they require something in the range of 1300 on SATS.. i am pretty sure that the MAJORITY of people on this board didnt break that.. and we didnt have to worry about playing football and trying to get a scholarship for college.

I did :snicker:
but I went to FAU, the new powerhouse in the NCAA football arena :pray:

[Jan Reimers]

Look, Clements is an alum, with strong ties to the school and the football program. While many of YOU consider the head coaching job at ND to be a no-win, career-ending disaster, he will most probably see it as the opportunity of a lifetime.

I would think Clements would see ND's high academic standards as a positive, and the chance to turn around what was once the premiere program in the country to be too good to pass up.

I'm a Syracuse guy and not at all a Notre Dame fan. But in looking at this from Clement's point of view, I don't know how - if the job is offered - he can turn it down.

[ryjam282]

Look, Clements is an alum, with strong ties to the school and the football program. While many of YOU consider the head coaching job at ND to be a no-win, career-ending disaster, he will most probably see it as the opportunity of a lifetime.

I would think Clements would see ND's high academic standards as a positive, and the chance to turn around what was once the premiere program in the country to be too good to pass up.



Clements is in the same boat as Urban Meyer, only he did coach there...Talk about a chance of a lifetime, he passed it up for a reason....I think Clements will have to look at it like Urban did. It is a no-win situation for whoever comes in there.

How can the high academic standards be a positive? If player X is the #1 player in the nation and he wants to come to Notre Dame but can only get a 850 on his SAT's he isn't coming to the school. Bottom line, therefore, ND cannot get the blue chip atlethes. How is that a positive?

[justasportsfan]

If Clemens does end up the HC of ND, this means Mularkey will hire Gilbride as our OC. It's his system we're using. :lol:

[Jan Reimers]

Clements is in the same boat as Urban Meyer, only he did coach there...Talk about a chance of a lifetime, he passed it up for a reason....I think Clements will have to look at it like Urban did. It is a no-win situation for whoever comes in there.

How can the high academic standards be a positive? If player X is the #1 player in the nation and he wants to come to Notre Dame but can only get a 850 on his SAT's he isn't coming to the school. Bottom line, therefore, ND cannot get the blue chip atlethes. How is that a positive?
The positive is working with bright, high character kids, and trying to make them as successful as the Miami's, Oklahoma's and other college football factories that recruit every Neanderthal and Cretin that can't even spell football.

There are some coaches who actually enjoy working with quality student-athletes, rather than criminals and basket weaving majors - but I know that this is hard to fathom in our win-at-all-cost society.

[Ebenezer]

equate it this way...

coach of ND is to a person who loves ND as being the GM of the Bills is to a Bills fan...

[don137]

Shouldn't they wait until after the season to interview for the position? The Bills have a game plan to implement on Thursday.

[Ebenezer]

Shouldn't they wait until after the season to interview for the position? The Bills have a game plan to implement on Thursday.
regrettably, no. Do you wait until your vacation to seek employment someplace else?

[TedMock]

Do you wait until your vacation to seek employment someplace else?

Oddly enough, that's my plan! It's a lot easier than leaving work for interviews.

[Romes]

we finally get a coaching staff worth something and its being picked apart. This is good for ND but sucks for the Bills.

[ryjam282]

The positive is working with bright, high character kids, and trying to make them as successful as the Miami's, Oklahoma's and other college football factories that recruit every Neanderthal and Cretin that can't even spell football.

There are some coaches who actually enjoy working with quality student-athletes, rather than criminals and basket weaving majors - but I know that this is hard to fathom in our win-at-all-cost society.


I agree 100% but regretfully, that is how thing work in big time college football. Look at Woody Williams, the canes prized recruit this past year. Sure, he had a season ending injury in spring practice but he was arrested numerous times and violated his probation on a recruiting visit to UF. But, yano what he is a hell of a MLB and could be a 1st round draft pick. He will make the Canes a better team because of his abilities on the field, not off it.

But, I do agree with what you say about basket weaving majors and such but nowadays that just isn't a reality if you want to win.

[Tatonka]

marcus vick is a piece of crap.. but he will be in a hokies uni next year because he makes them better on the field.. and his brother donates millions to the school.

[Ebenezer]

Oddly enough, that's my plan! It's a lot easier than leaving work for interviews.
:jawdrop: that's a first.

[ScottLawrence]

Gary O'Hagan, the agent for Clements, said that when Irish Athletic Director Kevin White called <ALT-CODE idsrc="nyt-geo" value="Iowa" />Iowa Coach Kirk Ferentz to gauge his interest in the job, Ferentz recommended Clements. O'Hagan said Clements was interested in the job. When Holtz retired from Notre Dame after the 1996 season, Clements pushed hard to get the job. The Irish hired Bob Davie instead.

Two other candidates took themselves off the list yesterday. Louisville's Bobby Petrino and <ALT-CODE idsrc="nyt-geo" value="Wisconsin" />Wisconsin's Barry Alvarez said they were happy with their jobs.

Interesting. So one way to read this is TC is not happy with his job? All I know is that I hope whatever happens, happens quickly. Learning yet another system for these guys is going to be rough, so we need to make the change quick before they get too aclimated to TC.


I believe its more so Mike Mularkeys offense then Clement's.

[Bulldog]

The major problem is that ND wants the best of both worlds. They want an elite football program comprised of mainly road scholars. Clements can recruit the student athletes and try to mold them into a quality team, but athletically they will never be able to compete with the other major programs in the country. ND is trying to compete on an unlevel playing field. When about 75% of the top recruits can't meet the academic requirements, thats a real problem. In the end, ND has a decision to make. Either lower the academic requirements allowing the coach to go after more high profile recruits, or keep the academic requirements the same and accept the fact that they will be a mediocre, middle of the road program!

As far as Clements goes, I personally think it would be in his best interest to stay put with Buffalo until a better opportunity comes along.

[Ebenezer]

The major problem is that ND wants the best of both worlds. They want an elite football program comprised of mainly road scholars. Clements can recruit the student athletes and try to mold them into a quality team, but athletically they will never be able to compete with the other major programs in the country. ND is trying to compete on an unlevel playing field. When about 75% of the top recruits can't meet the academic requirements, thats a real problem. In the end, ND has a decision to make. Either lower the academic requirements allowing the coach to go after more high profile recruits, or keep the academic requirements the same and accept the fact that they will be a mediocre, middle of the road program!


Again, what is wrong with that? Are their standards a little too high? Yes. But personally, if you have under an 80 average and less than a 1000 on the SAT you probably shouldn't be in college because you can throw, catch or run with a ball. This may hurt but nobody should be able to go to college simply because they can play a sport. If the NCAA were serious they would get rid of freshman eligibility and not allow those with under an 80 average (some would say even higher) and a 1000 SAT score even into a college let alone a sports program. Make them be students first...let the others pump gas.

[ryjam282]

Again, what is wrong with that? Are their standards a little too high? Yes. But personally, if you have under an 80 average and less than a 1000 on the SAT you probably shouldn't be in college because you can throw, catch or run with a ball. This may hurt but nobody should be able to go to college simply because they can play a sport. If the NCAA were serious they would get rid of freshman eligibility and not allow those with under an 80 average (some would say even higher) and a 1000 SAT score even into a college let alone a sports program. Make them be students first...let the others pump gas.


Most of us agree, especially with the bolded statment you made. But, until that happens ND will continue being mediocre at best and the UM's and OU will continue to excel, that is unless they can lower there standards to what 95% of the other schools have.

[Bulldog]

Again, what is wrong with that? Are their standards a little too high? Yes. But personally, if you have under an 80 average and less than a 1000 on the SAT you probably shouldn't be in college because you can throw, catch or run with a ball. This may hurt but nobody should be able to go to college simply because they can play a sport. If the NCAA were serious they would get rid of freshman eligibility and not allow those with under an 80 average (some would say even higher) and a 1000 SAT score even into a college let alone a sports program. Make them be students first...let the others pump gas.

I never said there was anything wrong with that. Notre Dame seems to think that they can have the best of both worlds, and simply put, its impossible. No matter how great a coach is, you have to have talent to win on a consistant basis. If Notre Dame wants to uphold their strong academic reputation, good for them. Just don't expect the football program to compete with the other major programs that aren't restricted with the same academic requirements. And lets not act like obtaining a 1000 SAT score is easily done. I know plenty of bright individuals who have graduated from college and gone on to be successful in their fields of work who didn't score a 1000 on the SAT.

[Ebenezer]

Most of us agree, especially with the bolded statment you made. But, until that happens ND will continue being mediocre at best and the UM's and OU will continue to excel, that is unless they can lower there standards to what 95% of the other schools have.
Lower their standards a little? I agree. Compromise what college is supposed to be about? No. I feel more proud rooting for ND and having them go 7-5 rather than Miami or OSU and their records...what did letting unqualified students into their program get them?

[Bulldog]

Lower their standards a little? I agree. Compromise what college is supposed to be about? No. I feel more proud rooting for ND and having them go 7-5 rather than Miami or OSU and their records...what did letting unqualified students into their program get them?

A National Championship that Notre Dame would love to have!

[Tatonka]

A National Championship that Notre Dame would love to have!

:up:

correct.. something that the current ND could never hope to compete for..

[Ebenezer]

:up:

correct.. something that the current ND could never hope to compete for..
ND11
VT 0

Notre Dame generally is considered to have earned 11 consensus national titles (1924-29-30-43-46-47-49-66-73-77-88). Since the AP began certifying the winner of its national crown in 1936, Notre Dame has won more national championships than any other team in the country. The Irish have won eight titles (1943-46-47-49-66-73-77-88) -- with Oklahoma second on the list with six.

[finsrclowns]

Lower their standards a little? I agree. Compromise what college is supposed to be about? No. I feel more proud rooting for ND and having them go 7-5 rather than Miami or OSU and their records...what did letting unqualified students into their program get them?

If you're ok with 7-5, Ty Willingham could get you that. Lower the standards some maybe even better. ND is living in a fantasy world if they think they can compete for a national championship without lowering standards substantially. If they don't want to, why fire Willingham? As currently constituted, ridiculous schedule, high academic standards, Notre Dame should end the pretense of the level they think they should be on and join the Big East or the Big 10.

[Mr. Cynical]

i simply disagree.. the HC job at ND WAS viewed by many as way better than an assistant nfl coaching job..

but clements has to be realistic.. he is not turning around that program.. there is far too much to fix.. and he will be fired before it gets done..

so now he has been a OC in the nfl for half a year.. and left for the first job offer he got.. sucked at ND.. and then what does he expect to do after he gets fired for not turning around a program that is not what it once was? you thin that someone is just going to throw him another OC position in 2-3 years? i doubt it..

i think if he takes the job.. he is killing his own career.I would agree with this. If he does well in Buffalo for the next year or two, he will have a shot at being a head coach in the NFL, which means millions. Most coaches jump from the NFL to college after they have tried and failed at HC, not before.

However it's all a moot point what we think. If he wants the job, he'll get it.

[Mr. Cynical]

Again, what is wrong with that? Are their standards a little too high? Yes. But personally, if you have under an 80 average and less than a 1000 on the SAT you probably shouldn't be in college because you can throw, catch or run with a ball. This may hurt but nobody should be able to go to college simply because they can play a sport. If the NCAA were serious they would get rid of freshman eligibility and not allow those with under an 80 average (some would say even higher) and a 1000 SAT score even into a college let alone a sports program. Make them be students first...let the others pump gas.
Maybe they should have Football Colleges where only athletes can attend. If you can't run a sub 4.4, throw a ball 50 yards in the air or bench over 400, you can't get in. :D

[ryjam282]

Lower their standards a little? I agree. Compromise what college is supposed to be about? No. I feel more proud rooting for ND and having them go 7-5 rather than Miami or OSU and their records...what did letting unqualified students into their program get them?

I know the Canes have there 5 titles and 2 runner ups...I can definitely say mostly idiots helped with the majority of those nice shiny rings they have.

[Bulldog]

ND11
VT 0

Notre Dame generally is considered to have earned 11 consensus national titles (1924-29-30-43-46-47-49-66-73-77-88). Since the AP began certifying the winner of its national crown in 1936, Notre Dame has won more national championships than any other team in the country. The Irish have won eight titles (1943-46-47-49-66-73-77-88) -- with Oklahoma second on the list with six.

Eb, do you honestly believe that ND can challange for a National Championship with the way things are currently set up?

[Ebenezer]

Eb, do you honestly believe that ND can challange for a National Championship with the way things are currently set up?
I didn't say that...reread my posts...I think they should lower their standards a little...I don't think they should let in guys like Maurice Clarette...I don't think any school should be allowed to do that.

[DraftBoy]

Eb, do you honestly believe that ND can challange for a National Championship with the way things are currently set up?


100% yes, ND has been plagues since Holtz with bad recruiting coaches, nothing has changed at the university in forever, not the academic standards not the will to win. Why some you say they cant win now is ridiculous. Will they contend next season? No. Could they in 2-3 your damn right they could. TW, and BD were horrible recruiters. Holtz was a good one. If we can get the right guy in here to recruit then we will once again be a powerhouse type team. We already got a good RB in the making Walker, WR, OL and DL and LB have always been strengths, get some DB's and a QB who can move. We got a good shot again. With the team we had this year we big most of the big names: Michigan and Tennessee. We just werent consistent enough to beat the BYU's and BC's. Have no fear ND will return to glory again...I have no doubts. Also it is the most attractive job in the country by far if you have the self confidence to think you can do it.

[DraftBoy]

I didn't say that...reread my posts...I think they should lower their standards a little...I don't think they should let in guys like Maurice Clarette...I don't think any school should be allowed to do that.

I agree Eb!

[DraftBoy]

Btw does anybody actually know the requirments for an athlete for ND or are you all just pulling figures out of your asses?

[Ebenezer]

Btw does anybody actually know the requirments for an athlete for ND or are you all just pulling figures out of your asses?
I know this...I wouldn't have gotten accepted to ND with my 91 average and 1080 SAT score.

[TedMock]

80 average (some would say even higher) and a 1000 SAT score even into a college let alone a sports program. Make them be students first...let the others pump gas.

That's a little harsh. A 'C' student should not be afforded any opportunity to be successful? I know that's not what you said, but I'm sure that there are children who just need to grow up a little. I would imagine that there are quite a few very successful people who were average highschool students, and didn't top 900 on the SAT's. I don't believe that this makes them stupid or ineligible for higher education. I do believe that they should be on some sort of provisional status until they prove that they can succeed in college. A very close friend of mine was a total goofball in high school. He graduated from Canisius College, went to Albany Law school, and now holds a high-profile government position. He bombed his SAT's (790 if my memory serves me right), but somebody he knew was able to get him into Canisius as a student on probation for the first year. Don't forget, also, that some people just don't do well on standardized tests, no matter how intelligent they are. I don't think ND should lower their standards because that's who they are, but would ND still hold that mystique if it wasn't for the football program of years gone by? Agree or disagree, football is why many of these institutions have so many applications every year. People want to go to 'big-time' programs even if they're not athletes.

[B-DON]

i disagree that the academics are the reason ND cant win. how can they beat michigan and tennessee both top ten teams at the time, yet lose to cupcakes? if u can beat michigan u can beat anyone and they did so get rid of the academic bs

[Ebenezer]

Btw does anybody actually know the requirments for an athlete for ND or are you all just pulling figures out of your asses?
here is their web page...no real criteria listed. http://admissions.nd.edu/firstyear/applicationcriteria.cfm

2004 Applicant Pool
11,500 applications
3,500 admitted
1,985 enrolled

Incoming Class Academic Profile (mid 50% ranges)
50% of the admitted class scored or were ranked between the numbers below. 25% of the class admitted scored or were ranked above the numbers below, and 25% of the class admitted scored or were ranked below the numbers below.
1330 - 1470 on the SAT I
31 - 34 on the ACT
1% - 6% rank in class

[DraftBoy]

I know this...I wouldn't have gotten accepted to ND with my 91 average and 1080 SAT score.


I got accepted but couldnt afford it:
1330 SAT 4.0gpa 92 avg

[Ebenezer]

I got accepted but couldnt afford it:
1330 SAT 4.0gpa 92 avg
I didn't apply, I know I couldn't have afforded it...

[DraftBoy]

I didn't apply, I know I couldn't have afforded it...


Always a dream just had to know if I coulda got in, 75 buck admission form fee.

[Bulldog]

i disagree that the academics are the reason ND cant win. how can they beat michigan and tennessee both top ten teams at the time, yet lose to cupcakes? if u can beat michigan u can beat anyone and they did so get rid of the academic bs

Like I said, to win on a CONSISTANT basis, you need talent. There is no way in hell you can tell me that ND can match the elite programs in talent from top to bottom. Sure, they may be good enough to beat a top team from time to time, but more often that not they will get beat on pure talent alone.

[Ebenezer]

Always a dream just had to know if I coulda got in, 75 buck admission form fee.
I think it was $50 20 years ago...my family couldn't afford $50 for me to say "I got accepted by Notre Dame but couldn't go because I couldn't afford it". I have no regrets...I have a great wife, kids and life.

[THATHURMANATOR]

This sucks. We are finally starting to gell and now he may be gone!

[Jan Reimers]

Here's my guess:

If offered the ND job on any reasonable terms, Clements will take it.
Sam Wyche will make a fine offensive coordinator.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I hate Notre Dame by the way. I always root for them to lose if they are on TV.

[pcnorth22]

Always a dream just had to know if I coulda got in, 75 buck admission form fee.

i almost did that too...I think I had a shot, 1320, and 96 avg...but instead I went to Geneseo, which is probably just as hard to get into, but they don't require you to have ****loads of bank to get in...

[Tatonka]

ND11
VT 0

Notre Dame generally is considered to have earned 11 consensus national titles (1924-29-30-43-46-47-49-66-73-77-88). Since the AP began certifying the winner of its national crown in 1936, Notre Dame has won more national championships than any other team in the country. The Irish have won eight titles (1943-46-47-49-66-73-77-88) -- with Oklahoma second on the list with six.

i see that you are living in the past almost 20 years..

and it will be another 20 before ND has a sniff at a championship.

they might win their conference championship though. :snicker:

[pcnorth22]

I know we keep listing admission requirements for ND students, but we all know that what it says on the website isn't exactly what the student-athletes have to get...

i know its still high, but I don't think they expect all their athletes to have 1300s...

[pcnorth22]

I think it was $50 20 years ago...my family couldn't afford $50 for me to say "I got accepted by Notre Dame but couldn't go because I couldn't afford it". I have no regrets...I have a great wife, kids and life.

the app. costs are ridiculous...my principal told me to apply to about a dozen schools, I applied to 4, 2 SUNY schools, Canisius and U of R...12 schools would have vost about $500...

oh...and Clements is gone once ND offers him the job, Joe Montana has spoken

[Ebenezer]

i see that you are living in the past almost 20 years..

and it will be another 20 before ND has a sniff at a championship.

they might win their conference championship though. :snicker:
VT still has zero...

funny. we sit here and keep bashing ND football.....answer me this...how come ND competes in other sports, wins national championships in those sports and nobody talks about the standards...

could it be that other schools let in many non-qualified individuals in football and basketball just to win??

[Ebenezer]

the app. costs are ridiculous...my principal told me to apply to about a dozen schools, I applied to 4, 2 SUNY schools, Canisius and U of R...12 schools would have vost about $500...


:rofl: in 1982 my dad netted about $160 a week...I don't think three weeks pay was going to be given to me to apply to college.

[Crimm]

I certainly wouldnt blame TC for taking the job, despite the fact that they arent waht they used to be they are still the irish and its still a high profile and prestigious position. And just think how huge Clements would become if he did somehow turn the program around?

Willingham actually has left the program in such better shape than it was when he took over a few years back. He scrapped that awful option offense that kept good recruits away and installed a pro offense that is much more attractive to potential recruits.

He also got that little badass RB from Georgia whose name escapes me right now, and the young QB has made major strides and has looked solid at times, plus there's that white DB who was a goldgloves boxing champ in high school who looks like the next John Lynch. There is certainly better talent on the team now than there has been in awhile.

Plus failing at ND isnt the worst thing in the world. Most people will just say, well with those academic standards he really didnt have a chance. Look at tyrone, it looks like he will surely land on his feet and its likely he will get to play with the Arizona offense next year and build them into a strong unit.

My question is who takes over if TC leaves. Is wyche healthy enough to expand his role with the offense, or is he better off being JP's personal mentor. Is there anyone else on the offensive staff that could make the move, is Tyke Tolbert an OC prospect? Is there anyone still on the Pitt staff who Mularkey wanted and could be an OC? Does it even matter too much who is the OC as the offense obviously belongs to Mularkey himself?

[DraftBoy]

i see that you are living in the past almost 20 years..

and it will be another 20 before ND has a sniff at a championship.

they might win their conference championship though. :snicker:


lots and piss and vinegar against the golden domers why? Also it may be 20 years but VaTech still wont have one.

[DraftBoy]

i almost did that too...I think I had a shot, 1320, and 96 avg...but instead I went to Geneseo, which is probably just as hard to get into, but they don't require you to have ****loads of bank to get in...


I go to Georgia College and State University, its much easier to get into, and its in a small town of Georgia Im very happy with my choice, Ive met possibly my future wife here and I love the small school atmosphere.

[DraftBoy]

I think it was $50 20 years ago...my family couldn't afford $50 for me to say "I got accepted by Notre Dame but couldn't go because I couldn't afford it". I have no regrets...I have a great wife, kids and life.


I feel ya I choose the small school over a place like UGA even though I could afford Georgia, Im extremely happy with my choice. :dance:

[DraftBoy]

I certainly wouldnt blame TC for taking the job, despite the fact that they arent waht they used to be they are still the irish and its still a high profile and prestigious position. And just think how huge Clements would become if he did somehow turn the program around?

Willingham actually has left the program in such better shape than it was when he took over a few years back. He scrapped that awful option offense that kept good recruits away and installed a pro offense that is much more attractive to potential recruits.

He also got that little badass RB from Georgia whose name escapes me right now, and the young QB has made major strides and has looked solid at times, plus there's that white DB who was a goldgloves boxing champ in high school who looks like the next John Lynch. There is certainly better talent on the team now than there has been in awhile.

Plus failing at ND isnt the worst thing in the world. Most people will just say, well with those academic standards he really didnt have a chance. Look at tyrone, it looks like he will surely land on his feet and its likely he will get to play with the Arizona offense next year and build them into a strong unit.

My question is who takes over if TC leaves. Is wyche healthy enough to expand his role with the offense, or is he better off being JP's personal mentor. Is there anyone else on the offensive staff that could make the move, is Tyke Tolbert an OC prospect? Is there anyone still on the Pitt staff who Mularkey wanted and could be an OC? Does it even matter too much who is the OC as the offense obviously belongs to Mularkey himself?

Well said...

The RB from Georgia is Darius Walker, I played against that kid in rec bball, he was badass. His famaily lived not 10 miles from me.

Tyke Tolbert would be an intriguing choice where is he at right now? The name of the place escapes me. <---Freudian Slip

[Tatonka]

lots and piss and vinegar against the golden domers why? Also it may be 20 years but VaTech still wont have one.


judging from the last 10 years.. i would say tech is alot closer.. played for one national championship.. and finished first in the acc with a very young team this year..

i dont hate ND.. i have nothing against them.

just think that they dont have a chance to get good athletes to compete.. simple as that..

and EB.. what other sports are there to win national championships in?

[Ebenezer]

lots and piss and vinegar against the golden domers why? Also it may be 20 years but VaTech still wont have one.
same reason people hate the Yankees...you love them or you hate them...and you can instantly tell where most people fall.

[DraftBoy]

judging from the last 10 years.. i would say tech is alot closer.. played for one national championship.. and finished first in the acc with a very young team this year..

i dont hate ND.. i have nothing against them.

just think that they dont have a chance to get good athletes to compete.. simple as that..

and EB.. what other sports are there to win national championships in?


Women's Basketball, Soccer, Swimming and more im sure


Why do you say they cant get the athletes T? Did they not when Holtz was the HC? Would you not agree that both TW and BD were bad recruiters? VaTech won a very weak ACC dont sell that too short. You got Miami, FSU with no QB, Virgina who had a meltdown and VT who played well when it needed. They deserve tons of credit but Marcus better grow up this winter.

[Ebenezer]

judging from the last 10 years.. i would say tech is alot closer.. played for one national championship.. and finished first in the acc with a very young team this year..

i dont hate ND.. i have nothing against them.

just think that they dont have a chance to get good athletes to compete.. simple as that..

and EB.. what other sports are there to win national championships in?
Soccer, Hockey, many women's sports.

check this out for one:

http://und.collegesports.com/sports/w-soccer/recaps/120504aab.html

WOMEN'S SOCCER WINS NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP
Jill Krivacek made the deciding kick in the first NCAA women's soccer title game decided by penalties.

Dec. 5, 2004
CARY, N.C. (AP) -


Associated Press Writer

CARY, N.C. (AP) - Notre Dame goalkeeper Erika Bohn faced her first penalty kick of the season Sunday, and the stakes could not have been higher: Just a few minutes were left in the NCAA women's soccer title game.

Bohn jumped to her left and turned aside Kendal Billingsley's waist-high shot from 12 yards away to preserve a 1-1 tie in regulation.

"It's a pressure situation, but I just went with my gut," Bohn said. "After I saved it, I knew we weren't going to lose."

[Tatonka]

Women's Basketball, Soccer, Swimming and more im sure


Why do you say they cant get the athletes T? Did they not when Holtz was the HC? Would you not agree that both TW and BD were bad recruiters? VaTech won a very weak ACC dont sell that too short. You got Miami, FSU with no QB, Virgina who had a meltdown and VT who played well when it needed. They deserve tons of credit but Marcus better grow up this winter.


first of all .. seriously.. who cares about all those other sports in the least.. there is college football.. college basketball.. and the rest is a bunch of crap.. the bring in pennies compaired to the millions that football and basketball do.

i have already stated why i feel the way i do.. ND's standards are just too high to put together a winner.. the top high school athletes are not eligable to get into ND.. what is so hard to understand about that..

why do you think that ND is being just completely embarassed by having the head coaches of kansas and louisville and utah all tell ND to go take a hike? is it because they think so highly of ND? i mean seriously.. a coach wouldnt leave confrence USA? :rofl:

they are going to be calling you and eb for interviews soon.. because you two are the only ones that want to coach there right now.

and you can dog tech all you want.. they were picked to finish 8th in that confrence.. they beat miami IN miami.. they beat arch rival virginia.. they stuck with USC the whole damn game.. they played their asses off and i dont want to hear **** about a weak confrence.. like friggen USCs confrence is so great..

how did ND's strenght of schedule look this year?

[Ebenezer]

first of all .. seriously.. who cares about all those other sports in the least.. there is college football.. college basketball.. and the rest is a bunch of crap.. the bring in pennies compaired to the millions that football and basketball do.

i have already stated why i feel the way i do.. ND's standards are just too high to put together a winner.. the top high school athletes are not eligable to get into ND.. what is so hard to understand about that..

why do you think that ND is being just completely embarassed by having the head coaches of kansas and louisville and utah all tell ND to go take a hike? is it because they think so highly of ND? i mean seriously.. a coach wouldnt leave confrence USA? :rofl:

they are going to be calling you and eb for interviews soon.. because you two are the only ones that want to coach there right now.

and you can dog tech all you want.. they were picked to finish 8th in that confrence.. they beat miami IN miami.. they beat arch rival virginia.. they stuck with USC the whole damn game.. they played their asses off and i dont want to hear **** about a weak confrence.. like friggen USCs confrence is so great..

how did ND's strenght of schedule look this year?
according to Sagarin, ND had the 21st hardest schedule out of 239....VT was 52...next.

[Tatonka]

according to Sagarin, ND had the 21st hardest schedule out of 239....VT was 52...next.


next..

what was your record and what bowl are you playing in?

oh... and who is the latest person to turn down the job for such a "great" university..

[Ebenezer]

next..

what was your record and what bowl are you playing in?

oh... and who is the latest person to turn down the job for such a "great" university..
when VaTech wins a national championship, call. There are 238 also rans...VT is one just like ND.

you know, you ask me a question, thinking that ND plays a schedule of cupcakes and when I prove you wrong you throw the coaching situation in my face...dude, it is a down time...all programs go through it...ND is looking a lot better than a lot of schools right now...maybe they should join the Big-10 or the Big-East so they get some patsies and roll a 9-2 record...would you be more impressed?

[Tatonka]

when VaTech wins a national championship, call. There are 238 also rans...VT is one just like ND.

except one has a good program, a good coach and a chance..

the other doesnt.

[Ebenezer]

except one has a good program, a good coach and a chance..

the other doesnt.
they all have a chance....NEXT YEAR!

[Jeff1220]

After reading some posts I figured I'd chime in on this topic. ND is without a doubt at a disadvantage to the other major programs due to their academic standards. Will they field a winner year in and year out as they did in the past? No. Should they change there academic standards? No. It hasn't hurt there basketball team very much, which has grown into a pretty strong Big East program over the last few years.
However, if ND wants to maintain their integrity and academic standards, they'll have to settle with the fact that they won't ever have a football program like the U of Miami. They stand to lose a ton of money and might just have to finally break down and officially join a conference (because no network is going to want to carry their games) - perhaps the Big East.
I can understand why Tom Clements would want the job. He fits the profile of the type of guy they would need to be successful.
He's an alum and former QB.
He has worked his way to Offensive Coordinator in the NFL - even though for a short time, this will add some credibility when recruiting.
It's a high profile HC job. If he does well, the sky is the limit. If he doesn't, he can slip back into a coordinator position to reassert his football credibility. (Even if he leaves Buffalo early, people will remember the way this O turned around through the course of the 04-05 season.
He might just be a courtesy interview and this whole subject becomes moot. If he gets the job, good for him. I hope he does well, but I wouldn't worry too much. "His" offense seems more like Mularkey's offense, and after seeing this staff develop, I have a lot of confidence that MM would get another good OC in here to call the plays.

[Bulldog]

when VaTech wins a national championship, call. There are 238 also rans...VT is one just like ND.

you know, you ask me a question, thinking that ND plays a schedule of cupcakes and when I prove you wrong you throw the coaching situation in my face...dude, it is a down time...all programs go through it...ND is looking a lot better than a lot of schools right now...maybe they should join the Big-10 or the Big-East so they get some patsies and roll a 9-2 record...would you be more impressed?

1.) Va. Tech won the ACC and played USC tough. What else do you want them to do?

2.) I'm not so sure ND could roll to 9-2 if they joined either the Big-10 or the Big East. Anyone care to look at the tape from the SU game against ND in the Dome last year? Two words to describe that game : @ss whoopin.

[DraftBoy]

first of all .. seriously.. who cares about all those other sports in the least.. there is college football.. college basketball.. and the rest is a bunch of crap.. the bring in pennies compaired to the millions that football and basketball do.

i have already stated why i feel the way i do.. ND's standards are just too high to put together a winner.. the top high school athletes are not eligable to get into ND.. what is so hard to understand about that..

why do you think that ND is being just completely embarassed by having the head coaches of kansas and louisville and utah all tell ND to go take a hike? is it because they think so highly of ND? i mean seriously.. a coach wouldnt leave confrence USA? :rofl:

they are going to be calling you and eb for interviews soon.. because you two are the only ones that want to coach there right now.

and you can dog tech all you want.. they were picked to finish 8th in that confrence.. they beat miami IN miami.. they beat arch rival virginia.. they stuck with USC the whole damn game.. they played their asses off and i dont want to hear **** about a weak confrence.. like friggen USCs confrence is so great..

how did ND's strenght of schedule look this year?


Your the one who asked for other national title ND has won. I understand your point that athletes dont meet the requirments but they did before and now all the sudden they dont? Are you calling today's athletes stupider than that of 10 years ago bc as part of that generation I find that insulting if that is the case. ACC is still a crap conference esp with the year Miami and FSU had, USC has an even easier conference. SEC is by far the hardest conference this year and will continue to be, till Miami and FSU regain there strength. I said it before, Notre Dame program is in trouble there is no denying it, alot of these guys turning it down just signed extensions and it would cost them tons to leave, plus its not like they were officially asked and said no like Meyer. To my knowledge Meyer is the only one to be officiallly courted by Notre Dame and turn them down for this season. All other coaches were being hounded by the press and told the press no not Notre Dame. I dont think alot of guys want the job bc A) The job prolly has some of the most pressure of every program in the nation B) They dont think they can do it. It could be a career killer your completely right, TW was on the path to the pros after season 1, season 2 and 3 set him back a bit. Have faith though T, Notre Dame will be at the top again.

[DraftBoy]

1.) Va. Tech won the ACC and played USC tough. What else do you want them to do?

2.) I'm not so sure ND could roll to 9-2 if they joined either the Big-10 or the Big East. Anyone care to look at the tape from the SU game against ND in the Dome last year? Two words to describe that game : @ss whoopin.


Va Tech needs to beat Auburn to prove themselves on a national scale and that aint gonna happen.

Im not sure ND could either, but Id be willing to bet give them 2-3 more and they could. Every program goes in decline.

[Ebenezer]

1.) Va. Tech won the ACC and played USC tough. What else do you want them to do?

2.) I'm not so sure ND could roll to 9-2 if they joined either the Big-10 or the Big East. Anyone care to look at the tape from the SU game against ND in the Dome last year? Two words to describe that game : @ss whoopin.
Big East:
Pittsburgh 4 2 .667
Syracuse 4 2 .667
Boston College 4 2
West Virginia 4 2
Connecticut 3 3
Rutgers 1 5
Temple 1 5

They lost to Pitt and BC but would have crushed Temple, Rutgers, Connecticut.

Big-10:
Michigan 7 1 0.875 9 2 0.818
Iowa 7 1 0.875 9 2 0.818
Wisconsin 6 2 0.750 9 2 0.818
Northwestern 5 3 0.625 6 6 0.500
Ohio State 4 4 0.500 7 4 0.636
Purdue 4 4 0.500 7 4 0.636
Michigan State 4 4 0.500 5 7 0.417
Minnesota 3 5 0.375 6 5 0.545
Penn State 2 6 0.250 4 7 0.364
Illinois 1 7 0.125 3 8 0.273
Indiana 1 7 0.125 3 8 0.273

They beat Michigan, Michigan St. and lost to Purdue...Indiana, Illinois, Penn State, Minnesota don't scare...if ND joins either conference and dumps the other tough games from there schedule they go at least 8-3.

[pcnorth22]

it's looking more and more like Clements to ND is for sure...

"Notre Dame reportedly is preparing to meet with Buffalo Bills offensive coordinator and former Irish quarterback Tom Clements about its vacancy.

Clements, 51, has connections to two of Notre Dame's most successful coaches. He played under Ara Parseghian, leading the 1973 team to a national championship, and was an assistant under Lou Holtz from 1992-95.

'He has a good football mind, he's a good, solid person, and he's a Notre Dame alum,' Holtz told the Associated Press on Wednesday. "

this is at the end of an article that isn't even about hiring a replaclement...

http://www.cbs.sportsline.com/collegefootball/story/7978166

it doesn't even seem like anyone else is on the short list anymore...

[THATHURMANATOR]

first of all .. seriously.. who cares about all those other sports in the least.. there is college football.. college basketball.. and the rest is a bunch of crap.. the bring in pennies compaired to the millions that football and basketball do.

i have already stated why i feel the way i do.. ND's standards are just too high to put together a winner.. the top high school athletes are not eligable to get into ND.. what is so hard to understand about that..

why do you think that ND is being just completely embarassed by having the head coaches of kansas and louisville and utah all tell ND to go take a hike? is it because they think so highly of ND? i mean seriously.. a coach wouldnt leave confrence USA? :rofl:

they are going to be calling you and eb for interviews soon.. because you two are the only ones that want to coach there right now.

and you can dog tech all you want.. they were picked to finish 8th in that confrence.. they beat miami IN miami.. they beat arch rival virginia.. they stuck with USC the whole damn game.. they played their asses off and i dont want to hear **** about a weak confrence.. like friggen USCs confrence is so great..

how did ND's strenght of schedule look this year?

I agree 100% I could care less about any womens sports and any of the non major Male sports.

[THATHURMANATOR]

In my estimation they have made a huge mistake by firing Willingham.

[THATHURMANATOR]

same reason people hate the Yankees...you love them or you hate them...and you can instantly tell where most people fall.

No it isn't the same reason people hate the Yankees. People hate the Yankees because are consistantly dominant. I hate Notre Dame because they are so overated every year and are always on TV taking the place of much better football games.

[Ebenezer]

No it isn't the same reason people hate the Yankees. People hate the Yankees because are consistantly dominant. I hate Notre Dame because they are so overated every year and are always on TV taking the place of much better football games.
the ND you see today is equal to the Yankees 1982-1994, the Raiders post-1983, the 'Fins post-1986...overrated and expected to challenge...got to disagree, the ND hater/non-hater debate is the same as the Yankees.

[SoCalBillsFan]

The Va Tech program is light years ahead of ND right now...Firing Willingham was a HUGE mistake, especially not having a coach to come in. You can't pay people enough money to coach there right now (literally). I hope they can get back on track, as much as I enjoy 31 point victories, a strong ND is great for college football.

Va TEch is a damn good team, I think they do have a chance to beat auburn.

While were on conferences, I won't deny that pac ten isnt at the top, but its not at the bottom either. Keep in mind arizona state destroyed co-big ten champ iowa. THe SEC is so overrated its ridiculous. The east champ (tennesee) lost to Notre dame, which was about the only challenging game any team in the conference scheduled! When you play teams like the citadel and lousiana-lafayette, its tough to know how good a conference is. The ACC is pretty good-Virginia, FSU, Mia, VT are all solid programs.

[ajsdx]

Good debate. It's nice because I'm young enough that I really don't care about ND because they haven't been great in a while. I was 4 the last time they won their 88 Championship. ND will probably challenge every once in a while, but they'll never be dominant unless they lower their standards. Carson Palmer WANTED to go to ND a few years back, but he got an 800 on his SAT combined. So, he went to USC, and the rest is history. Sorry man, but black, white, whatever -- athletes will almost always be less qualified than the average candidate. It's not to say that they are dumber, but they have other things to work on. Instead of studying, they practice.

VT, as of right now, is a much better program than ND.

Excepting Men's Bball and Fball, no other sport really matters. UNC won the first Sears cup (awarded to the school with the best overall athletics program) in 1996, Stanford has won it every year since. Does anyone care how UNC's Women's Lacrosse team is doing? Not even we care. We do care that UNC's bball team is doing pretty well (F Santa Clara).

[Tatonka]

the acc also has north carolina, nc state, and maryland..

the acc is not a weak conference.. is it the sec? no.. the sec is a great conference.. probably the best.. but i dont think it is far behind the sec, and i am happy as hell that vtech is out of the big east.. people used to cry about techs strength of schedule before when they were in the big east.. now they can say crap.

[Ebenezer]

the acc also has north carolina, nc state, and maryland..

the acc is not a weak conference.. is it the sec? no.. the sec is a great conference.. probably the best.. but i dont think it is far behind the sec, and i am happy as hell that vtech is out of the big east.. people used to cry about techs strength of schedule before when they were in the big east.. now they can say crap.
true....but people assume because ND is not in a conference that they play a bunch of cupcakes...that is just not true. 21st schedule in the country...could you imagine if Purdue and Tennessee had continued as well as they played early on...if Washington and Michigan St. had "up" years? The only cupcake on the schedule was Navy and BYU...Pitt and Boston College even had winning records.

I am not saying the ND is better than anybody else. I truly would like to see them in a conference so they get 3 or 4 cupcakes a year...along with 2 cupcakes for the non-conference games. Every conference has their weaker sisters.

[DraftBoy]

ACC is by no means a weak conference that right is reserved to the Pac-10 and Big 12. Where the two most overrated teams in the country play. But thats another story which im sure Socal will call me on after he reads this. Im just saying that this season was a very down year for the ACC. All the teams that started strong faded late Miami, FSU, Virgina, Maryland. The only team that played well the whole way was Vtech and they deserve the title, and alot of credit for prooving it wasnt just the Big East scheduling that got them that far.

T you still didnt answer my question as to why you dont think can get the athletes it once did before? I mean the standards havent changed at all, so why can get the same guys, Willingham and Davie were not good recruiters its a simple as that.


Btw ZB bet on the VT-Auburn game??

[TedMock]

the acc also has north carolina, nc state, and maryland...
the acc is not a weak conference.

Go Terps! We get you next year in our house! At least I have college basketball season until then....well, maybe. GW?

[SoCalBillsFan]

Draftboy, we'll find out, if SC is overrated, huh? The past two years we keep hearing the same thing-"Iowa will kill you, MIchigan will kill you, auburn will kill you.." none of those game were even close. Now I don't think this SC team is as good as last year's team, and I think this game with Oklahoma will be close and we very well might lose, but it'll be a game.

One thing I do agree with is that Notre Dame does play an incredibly difficult schedule.

[Tatonka]

ACC is by no means a weak conference that right is reserved to the Pac-10 and Big 12. Where the two most overrated teams in the country play. But thats another story which im sure Socal will call me on after he reads this. Im just saying that this season was a very down year for the ACC. All the teams that started strong faded late Miami, FSU, Virgina, Maryland. The only team that played well the whole way was Vtech and they deserve the title, and alot of credit for prooving it wasnt just the Big East scheduling that got them that far.

T you still didnt answer my question as to why you dont think can get the athletes it once did before? I mean the standards havent changed at all, so why can get the same guys, Willingham and Davie were not good recruiters its a simple as that.


Btw ZB bet on the VT-Auburn game??

couple of things..

the think that virginia tech caused some of the "down" seasons taht your talking about.. i mean someone has to lose when tech plays virignia and miami, and then virginia and miami play and so on.. i just dont see how it was a down season for the acc because tech was the dominant force.. i think there are just alot of good teams in the acc that beat up on each other.. nc state got a win at tech.. nc got a win against miami.. like the afc east.. good teams.. but the records dont indicate that because they beat up on each other.

as far as your question, DB.. i dont know if ND's standards have gone up.. i know that virginia techs standards have.. when i went there, i got in with a transfer gpa of 3.8 (out of 4).. but i got an 1050 on my SATs, and would have never been able to go there directly out of highschool.. there minimum was 1100.. when i graduated, the went to the sugar bowl with vick and so many people were applying there, that they raised thier standards to 1200.. i am SURE they make exceptions for student athletes, because i used to go to class with ken oxindine, and he did NOT get an 1100 on his SATs.. ND must not make those exceptions..

but quite possibly, yeah, athletes are getting stupider.. the top studs in the country now are guys who are doing nothing but prepairing to get into college via football, and making plans to get into the nfl.. so they may not study as hard or whatever..

as far as a side bet on the vt auburn game.. lets wait and see what the spread is, and i will probably bet that.. i am not bettng straight up.. i think auburn is actually the best team in the nation.. better than usc and okl.. so i think tech would have to play a perfect game to win..

[juice]

The ACC has the best college athletes in the country, Football as well as Basketball.

[Jeff1220]

:yap:

[Tatonka]

:yap:

:scratch:

[DraftBoy]

Draftboy, we'll find out, if SC is overrated, huh? The past two years we keep hearing the same thing-"Iowa will kill you, MIchigan will kill you, auburn will kill you.." none of those game were even close. Now I don't think this SC team is as good as last year's team, and I think this game with Oklahoma will be close and we very well might lose, but it'll be a game.

One thing I do agree with is that Notre Dame does play an incredibly difficult schedule.

SC is the 2nd most overrated team in the country, unfortunately they are playing the most overrated team in the country in Oklahoma. They play in the 2 easiest big conferences in the nation. No denying that. Who keeps saying your gonna get killed by these teams? None of those teams strike fear into me, except Auburn this season and yall didnt play them. I think you'll destroy Oklahoma and expose there already bad secondary. They got a playmaker in a CB they got back there but thats it, your OL will handle Cody and Leinart WR's will make him look awesome again. Congrats on the nat'l title, even though I dont think you deserve it.

[DraftBoy]

couple of things..

the think that virginia tech caused some of the "down" seasons taht your talking about.. i mean someone has to lose when tech plays virignia and miami, and then virginia and miami play and so on.. i just dont see how it was a down season for the acc because tech was the dominant force.. i think there are just alot of good teams in the acc that beat up on each other.. nc state got a win at tech.. nc got a win against miami.. like the afc east.. good teams.. but the records dont indicate that because they beat up on each other.

as far as your question, DB.. i dont know if ND's standards have gone up.. i know that virginia techs standards have.. when i went there, i got in with a transfer gpa of 3.8 (out of 4).. but i got an 1050 on my SATs, and would have never been able to go there directly out of highschool.. there minimum was 1100.. when i graduated, the went to the sugar bowl with vick and so many people were applying there, that they raised thier standards to 1200.. i am SURE they make exceptions for student athletes, because i used to go to class with ken oxindine, and he did NOT get an 1100 on his SATs.. ND must not make those exceptions..

but quite possibly, yeah, athletes are getting stupider.. the top studs in the country now are guys who are doing nothing but prepairing to get into college via football, and making plans to get into the nfl.. so they may not study as hard or whatever..

as far as a side bet on the vt auburn game.. lets wait and see what the spread is, and i will probably bet that.. i am not bettng straight up.. i think auburn is actually the best team in the nation.. better than usc and okl.. so i think tech would have to play a perfect game to win..


T, standards for normal students and athletes are much different I can tell you student standards have gone up but I doubt athletics have. If you are saying athletes are dumber than before than i do take that personally bc that is an insult to my whole generation. Let me know about the Auburn-VT bet, what do you think the spread will be? Id say between 10-14.

[SoCalBillsFan]

My honest opinion is that I am not sold on USC. Out offensive line is too inconsistent, and the secondary play is as well. If we had not lost winston justice and mike williams, I would be certain we were the best team in the nation.

Here's the thing with the the SEC-the reason they always have so many highly ranked teams is because they play nobody but each other! THe entire SEC (12 teams) played 5 road games in their non conference schedule, and only won one of those. THe games they do schedule are mostly at home and against cupcake teams. It's easy to have a lot of 8 and 9 win teams when everyone goes undefeated in non-conference play.

we won't know how good these teams are until they play people!

[Gunzlingr]

My honest opinion is that I am not sold on USC. Out offensive line is too inconsistent, and the secondary play is as well. If we had not lost winston justice and mike williams, I would be certain we were the best team in the nation.

Here's the thing with the the SEC-the reason they always have so many highly ranked teams is because they play nobody but each other! THe entire SEC (12 teams) played 5 road games in their non conference schedule, and only won one of those. THe games they do schedule are mostly at home and against cupcake teams. It's easy to have a lot of 8 and 9 win teams when everyone goes undefeated in non-conference play.

we won't know how good these teams are until they play people!
welcome back socal, how was the presidential interview?

[SoCalBillsFan]

thanks gunz, and thanks for asking!

It was pretty cool, not sure if I'd call it an "interview," more like a meet and greet. THey flew me out to New Mexico (Las Crucas) and I went to one of Kerry's rallies and talked to him for about 5-10 minutes afterwards. We talked about the red sox, the campaign, and I told him I was a republican and asked him why I should vote for him. He gave me the standard rehearsed anwer, but he treated me with respect and seemed like a nice and thoughtful guy.

I still voted for bush though! thanks again for helping me with that.

[Tatonka]

T, standards for normal students and athletes are much different I can tell you student standards have gone up but I doubt athletics have. If you are saying athletes are dumber than before than i do take that personally bc that is an insult to my whole generation. Let me know about the Auburn-VT bet, what do you think the spread will be? Id say between 10-14.


well, i dont know why your getting insulted.. you and i are pretty much the SAME generation.. what are you .. mid to early twenties? i am in my late twenties..

the top college athletes are more focused on playing football than acedemics these days.. that is not an insult.. it is the truth..

highschool guys are thinking pro ball already.. naturally their grades are going to stuffer, and they are not going to be as smart.. you have to study more to be smarter..

i dont get why your bent..

[Tatonka]

and yeah.. 10-14 sounds right.. and tech will cover that.

[juice]

and yeah.. 10-14 sounds right.. and tech will cover that.VT was just another avarage football program.. Now they have legitamacy as a part of the ACC.. Your Welcome Tonk.

We'll have to work on your Basketball program over the next few seasons.. Now thats a program that needs some work.

[Ebenezer]

One thing I do agree with is that Notre Dame does play an incredibly difficult schedule.

2005 Schedule (with records before bowl games):
Sept. 3 - at Pittsburgh 8-3
Sept. 10 - at Michigan 9-2
Sept. 17 - MICHIGAN STATE 5-7
Sept. 24 - at Washington 1-10 (is that right? :eek:)
Oct. 1 - at Purdue 7-4
Oct. 15 - USC 12-0
Oct. 22 - BYU 5-6
Nov. 5 - TENNESSEE 9-3
Nov. 12 - NAVY 9-2
Nov. 19 - SYRACUSE 7-4
Nov. 26 - at Stanford 4-7

thank God, No BC. Same schedule (games to be played at opposite sites) as 2004 instead Syracuse is substituted for BC.

[SoCalBillsFan]

every one of those teams could have a winning record next year.

Yeah, washington sucked this year! They'll be a lot better next year though.

[DraftBoy]

well, i dont know why your getting insulted.. you and i are pretty much the SAME generation.. what are you .. mid to early twenties? i am in my late twenties..

the top college athletes are more focused on playing football than acedemics these days.. that is not an insult.. it is the truth..

highschool guys are thinking pro ball already.. naturally their grades are going to stuffer, and they are not going to be as smart.. you have to study more to be smarter..

i dont get why your bent..

19, 20 in 2 days, your a generation above my friend. I played ball through highschool both football and basketball, I was one of those "dumb" athletes.

[DraftBoy]

My honest opinion is that I am not sold on USC. Out offensive line is too inconsistent, and the secondary play is as well. If we had not lost winston justice and mike williams, I would be certain we were the best team in the nation.

Here's the thing with the the SEC-the reason they always have so many highly ranked teams is because they play nobody but each other! THe entire SEC (12 teams) played 5 road games in their non conference schedule, and only won one of those. THe games they do schedule are mostly at home and against cupcake teams. It's easy to have a lot of 8 and 9 win teams when everyone goes undefeated in non-conference play.

we won't know how good these teams are until they play people!


Auburn, Tennesee, LSU, Georgia, Florida....If thats not people then I dont know who is. SEC though is the best conference by default, personally I hate the style of football they play. I prefer Pac-10 ball over them, unfortunately on the east coast i get one pac-10 game a week on at 10pm on TBS.

[DraftBoy]

VT was just another avarage football program.. Now they have legitamacy as a part of the ACC.. Your Welcome Tonk.

We'll have to work on your Basketball program over the next few seasons.. Now thats a program that needs some work.


lol, they and Miami made the ACC legit before them the ACC was a laughing stock that FSU walked to every year. Vtech deserves all the credit here. Now basketball is a different story.

[DraftBoy]

every one of those teams could have a winning record next year.

Yeah, washington sucked this year! They'll be a lot better next year though.


That schedule scares me, who is SC gonna play at QB next season if Leinart jumps? A freshman is what im hearing some cali kid out there.

[juice]

lol, they and Miami made the ACC legit before them the ACC was a laughing stock that FSU walked to every year. Vtech deserves all the credit here. Now basketball is a different story.VT hasn't done S**t since Vick left.. The ACC makes their athletics dept. as a whole Legit.

What once was the laughing stock.. is now the envy of every college conference, in Football and Basketball.

VT was brought in to make the conference the best in college Football since Basketball is already locked down by the ACC. DraftBoy, you should know this your in the heart of ACC Country. ACC COUNTRY

[DraftBoy]

VT hasn't done S**t since Vick left.. The ACC makes their athletics dept. as a whole Legit.

What once was the laughing stock.. is now the envy of every college conference, in Football and Basketball.

VT was brought in to make the conference the best in college Football since Basketball is already locked down by the ACC. DraftBoy, you should know this your in the heart of ACC Country. ACC COUNTRY


Im also in the heart of SEC country there genious. ACC doesnt compare to SEC football wise. Im glad to see you say VT hasnt done jack since Vick left except win the daunting ACC. Please be real. The ACC is just now turning a football corner and they will continue to be good. But dont fool yourself the ACC is nothing without Miami and VT.

[juice]

Im also in the heart of SEC country there genious. ACC doesnt compare to SEC football wise. Im glad to see you say VT hasnt done jack since Vick left except win the daunting ACC. Please be real. The ACC is just now turning a football corner and they will continue to be good. But dont fool yourself the ACC is nothing without Miami and VT.Thats the entire reason the ACC brought in FSU, MIAMI, VT etc. to make the conference as competitive in Football as Basketball, it wasn't for their Basketball programs.. Mission accomplished.

We can just leave it as the ACC being the top conference when it comes to major College sports, More world class athletes and we put the most players into Professional Leagues.. Agreed?

[DraftBoy]

Thats the entire reason the ACC brought in FSU, MIAMI, VT etc. to make the conference as competitive in Football as Basketball, it wasn't for their Basketball programs.. Mission accomplished.

We can just leave it as the ACC being the top conference when it comes to major College sports, More world class athletes and we put the most players into Professional Leagues.. Agreed?


numbers?

I didnt know FSU was new to the ACC.

[juice]

numbers?

I didnt know FSU was new to the ACC.Yes DraftBoy FSU was also added to the ACC, which made the conference compatible and extended ACC recruiting into the SunShine State.. What #s are you looking for?

It took about 3 seasons for any other ACC team to beat them but I think it was Virginia who finally handed them their first loss in the ACC.

[Crimm]

Well said...

The RB from Georgia is Darius Walker, I played against that kid in rec bball, he was badass. His famaily lived not 10 miles from me.

Tyke Tolbert would be an intriguing choice where is he at right now? The name of the place escapes me. <---Freudian Slip

Ummmm Tolbert is at Buffalo, he's our recievers coach.

[SoCalBillsFan]

Auburn, Tennesee, LSU, Georgia, Florida....If thats not people then I dont know who is.

That's just it...these teams are living off of there reputations, but how do we know how good they are if they don't show us? They don't play anyone besides each other. LSU basically lost Oregon state(3 missed extra points), the only reasonable non-conf. game on their schedule and barely beat troy. Tennessee played UNLV and Lousianna tech, two terrible teams, and lost to the one decent team they played-Notre Dame. Florida played Middle tennesee state and eastern michigan-who are these teams? Georgia and auburn both played 1AA teams.

GIve any conference these terrible non-conf. schedules, and they'll have 5 teams in the top 25. Think about it. Everyone will be undefeated. I'm not saying its a bad conference at all, just that its overrated.



That schedule scares me, who is SC gonna play at QB next season if Leinart jumps? A freshman is what im hearing some cali kid out there.

THe next QB will be John David Booty, a 5 star recruit from Louisianna. He will be a redshirt soph next year. THe kid you are talking about is Mark Sanchez, he'll be a freshman. THe big issue, though, is whether the offensive coordinator Norm chow takes a head coaching job...

[Tatonka]

VT was just another avarage football program.. Now they have legitamacy as a part of the ACC.. Your Welcome Tonk.

We'll have to work on your Basketball program over the next few seasons.. Now thats a program that needs some work.

basketball is worse than figure skating.. i hate it.

[juice]

basketball is worse than figure skating.. i hate it.ACC Tourney.. March Madness College sports at its best.

[Ebenezer]

basketball is worse than figure skating.. i hate it.
holy crap....we agree.

[Mr. Cynical]

19, 20 in 2 days, your a generation above my friend.
Nominated for the Most Depressing Post of the Year.

:hang:

[DraftBoy]

Yes DraftBoy FSU was also added to the ACC, which made the conference compatible and extended ACC recruiting into the SunShine State.. What #s are you looking for?

It took about 3 seasons for any other ACC team to beat them but I think it was Virginia who finally handed them their first loss in the ACC.


What year was FSU added in?

[DraftBoy]

That's just it...these teams are living off of there reputations, but how do we know how good they are if they don't show us? They don't play anyone besides each other. LSU basically lost Oregon state(3 missed extra points), the only reasonable non-conf. game on their schedule and barely beat troy. Tennessee played UNLV and Lousianna tech, two terrible teams, and lost to the one decent team they played-Notre Dame. Florida played Middle tennesee state and eastern michigan-who are these teams? Georgia and auburn both played 1AA teams.

GIve any conference these terrible non-conf. schedules, and they'll have 5 teams in the top 25. Think about it. Everyone will be undefeated. I'm not saying its a bad conference at all, just that its overrated.




THe next QB will be John David Booty, a 5 star recruit from Louisianna. He will be a redshirt soph next year. THe kid you are talking about is Mark Sanchez, he'll be a freshman. THe big issue, though, is whether the offensive coordinator Norm chow takes a head coaching job...


Dont give me the non-conf bs about scheduling. Hell half the pac-10 could be considered as some of these teams non-conf. Id like to give the WAC and MAC these terrible non-conf schedules and see them put 5 in the top 25 btw.

I hear Sanchez hasnt decided yet he was leaning between SC and UCLA, who looked good against you guys for a lil bit. So did ND till we forgot how to drive the damn ball.

[DraftBoy]

Dont give me the non-conf bs about scheduling. Hell half the pac-10 could be considered as some of these teams non-conf. Id like to give the WAC and MAC these terrible non-conf schedules and see them put 5 in the top 25 btw.

I hear Sanchez hasnt decided yet he was leaning between SC and UCLA, who looked good against you guys for a lil bit. So did ND till we forgot how to drive the damn ball.


Hell ill give the Pac-10 and Big 12 these non conf schedules and id still like to see them place 5 top 25 teams....USC, Cal, Arz St, and ???Oregon? Oregon St? Arizona?

[juice]

What year was FSU added in?July 1991, why you looking to diffect from the SEC? See if you can get Florida to come with you.

GT joined in 1978.

[DraftBoy]

July 1991, why you looking to diffect from the SEC? See if you can get Florida to come with you.

GT joined in 1978.


am I looking to what? What are you talking about. How can you compare FSU who joined in 91 and VT and Miami who joined in 04? Thats a 13 yr difference. ACC will be good in a few more seasonsm they just need some time

[SoCalBillsFan]

Did I say the Pac 10 was as good? no! The SEC IS better than the pac 10, im not arguing that. But you didn't refute my point-the SEC is overrated, and we can't possibly know how good they are without seeing them play someone. THey played NOBODY this year-the one good win was florida over florida state. that's it!

But just to play along...yeah, the pac would have 5 in the top 25...UCLA would have another win, and Oregon state would have 2 more wins at least. I'm not saying its as good as the SEC, but for crying out loud, if the SEC is so good why don't they play someone and prove it! Because it sure seems like everytime they play someone decent they get challenged. Oregon state basically beat LSU at LSU, the number 12 team in the nation...

Sanchez is committed to USC. His other options were texas and Ohio State. I have a feeling chow leaving might make him reconsider.

[Tatonka]

19, 20 in 2 days, your a generation above my friend. I played ball through highschool both football and basketball, I was one of those "dumb" athletes.


i played football from 6th grade through 11th, as well as hockey, which i still play now..

you are missing the point.. i am not saying that the athletes are not capable of being as smart.. or that ALL athletes are not as smart..

i am saying that the TOP highschool athletes that are being recruited by tons of colleges, the real blue chip guys.. they are being courted by agents already.. people whispering in their ears about the nfl and just getting through three years so they can get into the pros, ect..

they focus less on school work and more on making themselves the best athletes they can.

kevin jones is a perfect example.. he was like a flashy pro his freshman year at tech.. he was already chiselled was working on his game every single day. he worked out with his father nonstop, who was basically his personal trainer.. watching everything that KJ put in his body and what specific training he was doing.. KJ is not a special case.. all the top athletes are like this now.. which means most likely they are not acedemically eligable to get into ND.

i dont think i can say it any clearer than that. :bikerbabe

[DraftBoy]

i played football from 6th grade through 11th, as well as hockey, which i still play now..

you are missing the point.. i am not saying that the athletes are not capable of being as smart.. or that ALL athletes are not as smart..

i am saying that the TOP highschool athletes that are being recruited by tons of colleges, the real blue chip guys.. they are being courted by agents already.. people whispering in their ears about the nfl and just getting through three years so they can get into the pros, ect..

they focus less on school work and more on making themselves the best athletes they can.

kevin jones is a perfect example.. he was like a flashy pro his freshman year at tech.. he was already chiselled was working on his game every single day. he worked out with his father nonstop, who was basically his personal trainer.. watching everything that KJ put in his body and what specific training he was doing.. KJ is not a special case.. all the top athletes are like this now.. which means most likely they are not acedemically eligable to get into ND.

i dont think i can say it any clearer than that. :bikerbabe


and also without knowing the academic requirements your making assumptions about the program, however I do agree that now more than ever the top 50-100 recruits care more about football than school. But Ill also be willing to be that they dont need a 3.8 and 1300+ to get into ND as an athlete either. Since we dont know how can we speculate on that. ND's standards have not changed. Personally I dont think Athletes got an dumber in the past decade. I am of the opinion that ND has been lacking due to poor recruiting not high academic standards, all this crap the press feeds us is bogus.

[DraftBoy]

Did I say the Pac 10 was as good? no! The SEC IS better than the pac 10, im not arguing that. But you didn't refute my point-the SEC is overrated, and we can't possibly know how good they are without seeing them play someone. THey played NOBODY this year-the one good win was florida over florida state. that's it!

But just to play along...yeah, the pac would have 5 in the top 25...UCLA would have another win, and Oregon state would have 2 more wins at least. I'm not saying its as good as the SEC, but for crying out loud, if the SEC is so good why don't they play someone and prove it! Because it sure seems like everytime they play someone decent they get challenged. Oregon state basically beat LSU at LSU, the number 12 team in the nation...

Sanchez is committed to USC. His other options were texas and Ohio State. I have a feeling chow leaving might make him reconsider.


Who the hell do you want them to play? They already gotta play everyone in their conference which is a challenge in itself. Im sorry but your point makes no sense, since no team in any major conference plays a tough non-conference schedule, you make your name in conference play, its that that simple. Unless you got rivalry games every year you play; USC-ND, MICH-ND, UGA-GT. You cant say a team played nobody hard outside their conference when 8 or 9 of their games were vs the toughest conference in the nation. I do agree however the SEC is overrated and they played well under the capability this year. LSU sucked, Georgia couldnt win a big game if they were handed it, Tennesee got beat by ND, Florida is Florida. Auburn is the only team to really do anything this year and I think they are the best team in the country, coming from the best conference in the country this year. Next year it could be the ACC, few years it could be the Big 10. Who knows?

[Tatonka]

and also without knowing the academic requirements your making assumptions about the program, however I do agree that now more than ever the top 50-100 recruits care more about football than school. But Ill also be willing to be that they dont need a 3.8 and 1300+ to get into ND as an athlete either. Since we dont know how can we speculate on that. ND's standards have not changed. Personally I dont think Athletes got an dumber in the past decade. I am of the opinion that ND has been lacking due to poor recruiting not high academic standards, all this crap the press feeds us is bogus.


your right.. we dont know the exact specifics on what the ND requirements are.. but alot of coaches that have much worse gigs have passed on the ND job and the recruiting/admissions requirements are one of the reasons why.

[Tatonka]

db, if tech beats auburn.. is tech the best team in the nation and the acc better than the sec?

[DraftBoy]

db, if tech beats auburn.. is tech the best team in the nation and the acc better than the sec?



Is tech the best team in the nation then?? Hmm...let me think of that, but no the ACC is not better than the SEC this year.

[DraftBoy]

your right.. we dont know the exact specifics on what the ND requirements are.. but alot of coaches that have much worse gigs have passed on the ND job and the recruiting/admissions requirements are one of the reasons why.


No doubt thats a big reason why but to state Notre Dame cannot regain past glory due to admissions that have no changed is ludacris imo.

[DraftBoy]

Is tech the best team in the nation then?? Hmm...let me think of that, but no the ACC is not better than the SEC this year.


If tech can beat Auburn then I would happily vote them #1 in the country. Granted I would also tie them with USC.

[SoCalBillsFan]

You cant say a team played nobody hard outside their conference when 8 or 9 of their games were vs the toughest conference in the nation.


that is what is called circular logic. "the sec is the best conference in the nation because they have to play each other and they are the best teams."

what makes them the best teams? tell me WHY the SEC is the best. What evidence is there? THe most common explanation I get is this: because they have 5 teams in the top 25. And that's the point. It's easy to have teams in the top 25 when everyone goes undefeated though non-conf. play.

the SEC has done NOTHING to show they are the best conf. in the nation. I do believe they are a good conference, but how can you say they are the best? THere's no way to tell because they don't play anyone.

[DraftBoy]

that is what is called circular logic. "the sec is the best conference in the nation because they have to play each other and they are the best teams."

what makes them the best teams? tell me WHY the SEC is the best. What evidence is there? THe most common explanation I get is this: because they have 5 teams in the top 25. And that's the point. It's easy to have teams in the top 25 when everyone goes undefeated though non-conf. play.

the SEC has done NOTHING to show they are the best conf. in the nation. I do believe they are a good conference, but how can you say they are the best? THere's no way to tell because they don't play anyone.


Who do other conferences play to prove that they are better. This is an obvious opinion based thing obviously. Having watched alot of college football this year, in my opinion the level of play is the best in the SEC. From top to bottom any team in that conference could beat anybody else in the nation, without having to get all the breaks in a game. Your point about having top 25 teams when everyone goes undefeated through non-conf play, then why do other conferences not enjoy the same benefits?

[SoCalBillsFan]

Oklahoma played bowling green and oregon. Michigan played notre dame and miami of ohio. USc played Va tech. Oregon st. played at lsu and at boise st. Arizona stayed played at iowa. I'm not saying these are great teams, but they aren't total cupcakes. The SEC, made up of twelve teams, played 5 road games out of conference. There were at least 3 division 1AA teams on the schedules as well. At least play SOMEONE.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this :) I do think the SEC is a great conference, but I'm not convinced they are the best. We'll see in the bowls though!