Pat Williams wants to stay in B'Lo

[Stewie]

From the D&C: http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041209/SPORTS03/412090357

""I don't think they're talking now but I hope they get a deal done," said Williams, who joined the Bills in 1997 as an undrafted free agent. "I want to stay here. I'm only looking for what's fair out there for D-tackles, not something outrageous."

Williams, a native of Monroe, La., isn't paying lip service to western New York when he says he loves it here. He and his wife, Valarie, and two daughters have a home in Orchard Park, he operates his own auto detailing shop, and his charitable foundation is based in Buffalo.

"Everything is here for me," Williams said. "It's not my home down south anymore. I pay taxes here. I've been here eight years. Buffalo is my home."

This is good news to me. Sorry if this has been posted.

[Forward_Lateral]

I hope he stays, especially if he's not after a Warren Sapp type deal.

[The King]

With Drew restructuring we should have no problem resigning Pat with a reasonable salary.. cool to see hes got loyalty

[Devin]

warms my heart man. Loyalty is so rare in this business. What a class act.

[Stewie]

In the article, there's more about how he has set up his charitable foundations in Buffalo and he learned about giving from Ted Washington.

[cordog]

I might just have to go out and get a Williams jersey because of this. Its great to hear guys like this instead of watching ESPN and hearing T.O. this and Ron Artest that.

[Drewpac]

If this is true, then Pat Williams is my new favorite Bill. Hopefully he's not just paying lip service to the fans. We'll see if he takes less to stay in Buffalo.

[ShadowHawk7]

Hopefully TD won't be an ass like he was to RB who said like the same thing about staying in B-Lo and restructuring his contract. PW has GOT to be resigned, more than JJ IMO.

[Drewpac]

Hopefully TD won't be an ass like he was to RB who said like the same thing about staying in B-Lo and restructuring his contract. PW has GOT to be resigned, more than JJ IMO.

I agree. But they both need to be resigned. JJ is a very good left tackle and he's still pretty young. The only thing holding him back are the injuries.

[Tatonka]

good for big pat.

i would love to have him back.

[cordog]

Hopefully TD won't be an ass like he was to RB who said like the same thing about staying in B-Lo and restructuring his contract. PW has GOT to be resigned, more than JJ IMO.

Ruben Brown just wasnt effective anymore.

[Tatonka]

I agree. But they both need to be resigned. JJ is a very good left tackle and he's still pretty young. The only thing holding him back are the injuries.

while jj seems to get dinged up alot.. we have a good back up in price.. and no one can question jj's toughness.. he has been out there with a bad shoulder like it was nothing.. in the press confrence, drew said he popped it out and he thought it looked bad.. drew went over to him on the ground and jj said.. dont worry about it.. i just need to get it popped back in.. i will be right back..

:shocked:

[Tatonka]

Ruben Brown just wasnt effective anymore.


i agree with that as well.

[chernobylwraiths]

""I don't think they're talking now but I hope they get a deal done," said Williams, who joined the Bills in 1997 as an undrafted free agent. "I want to stay here. I'm only looking for what's fair out there for D-tackles, not something outrageous."



I usually try not to play the wet blanket, but that bolded statement is very telling. He want's what is fair, that means market value, which also means what good DTs are making NOW in new deals. He will want a good bit of money. IMO, I think he will end up getting about what Adams makes, should be a little below. I don't see it as a Bruschi move yet. We shall see. Peerless Price and Antoine Winfield also both said that they would like to stay in Buffalo too.

[The King]

while jj seems to get dinged up alot.. we have a good back up in price.. and no one can question jj's toughness.. he has been out there with a bad shoulder like it was nothing.. in the press confrence, drew said he popped it out and he thought it looked bad.. drew went over to him on the ground and jj said.. dont worry about it.. i just need to get it popped back in.. i will be right back..

:shocked:


The more players we have like that the more w's we will get.

[BillsOverDolphins]

while jj seems to get dinged up alot.. we have a good back up in price.. and no one can question jj's toughness.. he has been out there with a bad shoulder like it was nothing.. in the press confrence, drew said he popped it out and he thought it looked bad.. drew went over to him on the ground and jj said.. dont worry about it.. i just need to get it popped back in.. i will be right back..

:shocked:
wtf? :shocked:

that's balls I do not have...

[BillsOverDolphins]

signing Big Pat and JJ would be enough to make it a good offseason for me. I honeslty don't think we're too far off(if Losman is even half as good as we expect). FS, C, and DE are our only real weakpoints in my opinion(assuming JP is starting).

[juice]

Ruben Brown just wasnt effective anymore.T. Henry and the Bears would not agree with you.. and the Bears still have a Realistic shot at the Playoffs. Some would question if L. Smith should even be on an active roster.

[Tatonka]

T. Henry and the Bears would not agree with you.. and the Bears still have a Realistic shot at the Playoffs. Some would question if L. Smith should even be on an active roster.


hahahaha.. the ruben brown defense detector just went off... and juice rushed the scene.

:cry:

[juice]

hahahaha.. the ruben brown defense detector just went off... and juice rushed the scene.

:cry:Are you still Bailing out on the teams starting QB.. If you had your way we'd be playing Loseman this week at QB and Coy at FS/SS. Tonk your batting 1000:up:

[Tatonka]

Are you still Bailing out on the teams starting QB.. If you had your way we'd be playing Loseman this week at QB and Coy at FS/SS. Tonk your batting 1000:up:


ruben is not coming back.. :cry:

[Bulldog]

T. Henry and the Bears would not agree with you.. and the Bears still have a Realistic shot at the Playoffs. Some would question if L. Smith should even be on an active roster.

Willis seems to be running fine behind the same o-line Henry struggled behind. And the Bears two leading rushers barley have over a 1,000 Yds. between them. So give it a rest already! And I wouldn't say the Bears have any better shot at the playoffs than the Bills do.

[FTG]

T. Henry and the Bears would not agree with you.. and the Bears still have a Realistic shot at the Playoffs. Some would question if L. Smith should even be on an active roster.


And we have a better record that the Bears so whats your point?

[juice]

ruben is not coming back.. :cry:And Coy will never Start at any position in the NFL.. Never.

I agree Brown wont come back he has a starting position with the Bears.. If you Whine enough maybe Bledsoe will join him down in Chi-Town.. TD will be looking for another scapegoat this year if and when we miss the Playoffs.

[Tatonka]

all the teams w/ losing records in the nfc have a chance at the playoffs.. BECAUSE THE NFC SUCKS ASS!!!

:rofl:

not because ruben and his injured reserved old butt made a difference

[Bulldog]

And Coy will never Start at any position in the NFL.. Never.

I agree Brown wont come back he has a starting position with the Bears.. If you Whine enough maybe Bledsoe will join him down in Chi-Town.. TD will be looking for another scapegoat this year if and when we miss the Playoffs.

Way to have faith in the team. Boy, that sure was a dumb post!

[juice]

Way to have faith in the team. Boy, that sure was a dumb post!Forward complaints to the GM's office.. He's the one that makes personnel decisions.

[BillsOverDolphins]

Christ almighty...Ruben's gone now, so who cares? He had a few great years for us, but that was awhile ago. I honestly don't miss his 3 holding penalties/per game...maybe that's just me.

[juice]

Christ almighty...Ruben's gone now, so who cares? He had a few great years for us, but that was awhile ago. I honestly don't miss his 3 holding penalties/per game...maybe that's just me.Do you mean the Two Years that T. Henry rushed for 1400 yds or the other 6 consecutive Pro Bowl years?

TD ended T. Henry's career as a Bill and almost did the same for Bledsoe.. By letting the Line Captain walk this teams chances of making a Playoff run was almost Zero.

[Bulldog]

Forward complaints to the GM's office.. He's the one that makes personnel decisions.

You seem to be the only one complaining that we let do-do Brown go. I have no complaints and am glad that he is gone.

[Tatonka]

And Coy will never Start at any position in the NFL.. Never.



coy wire is still a starter..he is a starting gunner on special teams. :D

thank god he is not in the secondary anymore..

the coaches finally got wise.. and benched him.. then they benched your other favorite player.. the most worthless FS in bills history, izelle reese, and put in an undrafted rookie who is outplaying both of them..

it took baker what, 3 games starting to get an INT.. took reese 2 years to get his ONLY one.. rofl.

[Tatonka]

gang.. be sure to swing by the 2004 billszone awards and vote for the billszone worst poster..

:snicker:

[lordofgun]

Do you mean the Two Years that T. Henry rushed for 1400 yds or the other 6 consecutive Pro Bowl years?

TD ended T. Henry's career as a Bill and almost did the same for Bledsoe.. By letting the Line Captain walk this teams chances of making a Playoff run was almost Zero.
If McGahee had been the starter all year, he would have at least matched that total of 1400 yards. :rolleyes:

[Tatonka]

If McGahee had been the starter all year, he would have at least matched that total of 1400 yards. :rolleyes:


ruben brown hater!

:snicker:

[juice]

You seem to be the only one complaining that we let do-do Brown go. I have no complaints and am glad that he is gone.Am I the only one complaining about another .500 season.. Or is Drew Bledsoe Completely to blame BullDog?

Some of you are running out of people to blame on the offensive side of the Ball.. Whose next Eric Moulds?

[Tatonka]

Am I the only one complaining about another .500 season.. Or is Drew Bledsoe Completely to blame BullDog?

Some of you are running out of people to blame on the offensive side of the Ball.. Whose next Eric Moulds?


you need to stop complaining about the team.. geez.

you must want to see the team lose, so show them they are wrong about ruben.

:roflmao:

[juice]

gang.. be sure to swing by the 2004 billszone awards and vote for the billszone worst poster..

:snicker:And how about BBoB award? The team doesn't get better by *****ing and Whining about the QB.. Have you had any positive posts about Bledsoe's improved play as of late?

***** and Moan.. ***** and Moan:up:

[Bulldog]

Am I the only one complaining about another .500 season.. Or is Drew Bledsoe Completely to blame BullDog?

Some of you are running out of people to blame on the offensive side of the Ball.. Whose next Eric Moulds?

Last time I checked Buffalo was at .500 with 4 games to go. Can you see into the future now too? Maybe when Buffalo finishes at 10-6 we will finally stop seeing these idiotic Ruben Brown is the greatest lineman of all time posts. But some how I doubt it!

[juice]

If McGahee had been the starter all year, he would have at least matched that total of 1400 yards. :rolleyes:Absolutely Not.. This O-Line has just learned how to play as a unit.. Willis would have been injured behind Puscillo or L. Smith or whoever the starting LG was in weeks 1-4.

[justasportsfan]

Do you mean the Two Years that T. Henry rushed for 1400 yds or the other 6 consecutive Pro Bowl years?

. If RB didn't have so much penalties maybe TH would've ran for 2000 yds. :crazy:

[juice]

you need to stop complaining about the team.. geez.

you must want to see the team lose, so show them they are wrong about ruben.

:roflmao:The teams lack of rushing yards and TDs during the first 4 weeks showed that cutting the Line Captain was a mistake.. At least I'm not hoping the starting QB fails.. ***** and Moan ***** and Moan

[helmetguy]

That lack of rushing TDs wouldn't have anything to do with TH tripping on air, would it? WM seemed to do pretty well a couple of weeks ago, without the long departed Line Captain. But that's just an observation.

[Michael82]

I agree Brown wont come back he has a starting position with the Bears..

No he doesn't. He's on IR. :duh:

:crazy:

[juice]

No he doesn't. He's on IR. :duh:

:crazy:He's also under contract, more than can be said about JJ after season's end.

[The Black Bear]

If Tom Donahoe doesn't resign Pat Williams he needs his head examined. You take Pat Williams out of that defense as the tag team partner of Sam Adams and this defense will sink fast.

Not fast ........


REAL FAST!!


You need two good defensive tackles not just one!







:peace:

[lordofgun]

Absolutely Not.. This O-Line has just learned how to play as a unit.. Willis would have been injured behind Puscillo or L. Smith or whoever the starting LG was in weeks 1-4.
:coocoo:

[juice]

:coocoo:I think you must've forgotten how much Willis struggled behind this O-Line at the beginning of the season.. Willis averaged under 3 yds/carry going into week 5 or 6.. before that he was averaging around 2 ypc.

2 ypc is a result of an O-Line that lacke leadership and cohesion.. How soon we forget LOG.

[BAM]

This is good news. Glad to hear it.

Stick around, Pat. :up:

[lordofgun]

I think you must've forgotten how much Willis struggled behind this O-Line at the beginning of the season.. Willis averaged under 3 yds/carry going into week 5 or 6.. before that he was averaging around 2 ypc.

2 ypc is a result of an O-Line that lacke leadership and cohesion.. How soon we forget LOG.
Actually, Willis averaged 4.02YPC in the first 5 games.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Juice it looks as if you are the one who have forgotten, or possibly just never knew in the first place.

[juice]

Actually, Willis averaged 4.02YPC in the first 5 games.In the first 3 games Willis was averaging less than 2.5/carry and thats off the top of my head.. Post all the stats LOG since your looking them up..

Travis and Willis both struggled.. at 0-4 we're out of the postseason picture anyway.. That says more than selective stats about the run game.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Log you are being called out.

[juice]

Juice it looks as if you are the one who have forgotten, or possibly just never knew in the first place.Dont miss the point here Thurm.. Unless you think this O-Line was good enough to make the Playoffs coming out of camp, TD made a mistake in cutting the starting LG without addressing the position and that is the reason the team may miss the Playoffs again this year.

[helmetguy]

Who didn't struggle in the beginning of the season, juice? I'm beginning to think your every point is "off the top of your head."

[juice]

Who didn't struggle in the beginning of the season, juice? I'm beginning to think your every point is "off the top of your head."The Patriots, The Eagles.. Contenders that didn't struggle.


No team can afford to go 0-4 because of the GM's Personnel decisions.. What are you even arguing here Helmet Guy? Who didn't struggle.. Playoff Bound teams thats who.

I'm starting to think you just post to have something to say.. Why don't you go look some stats up.. I watch the game, and I dont post trying to prove or disprove other posters points by using Selective Stats.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Dont miss the point here Thurm.. Unless you think this O-Line was good enough to make the Playoffs coming out of camp, TD made a mistake in cutting the starting LG without addressing the position and that is the reason the team may miss the Playoffs again this year.

I don't think I am missing anything. Ruben Brown was being paid far too much for his production level. I think that is pretty clear to everyone but yourself. It was addressed by signed a player with similar talent, Villareal, to a smaller contract. How did I know that this was going to turn into Ruben Brown discussion?

[juice]

Everyone busy looking up stats?


Williams is the heart of the Defense and will be willing to work with the Bills to make the #s come out right.. Just like Ruben.

Not all players fit the Greedy Athlete stereoType.. Some just love the game and are loyal to their team. I think Ruben as well as Pat have shown in the past that they were in Buffalo because they loved it there. And I didn't have to go to the statbook to look that up.

[juice]

I don't think I am missing anything. Ruben Brown was being paid far too much for his production level. I think that is pretty clear to everyone but yourself. It was addressed by signed a player with similar talent, Villareal, to a smaller contract. How did I know that this was going to turn into Ruben Brown discussion?Look at the results.. Valerial had no history or Leadership abilities.. You cant just bring in Ruben type Leadership and there are no more 8 time Pro Bowlers.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Look at the results.. Valerial had no history or Leadership abilities.. You cant just bring in Ruben type Leadership and there are no more 8 time Pro Bowlers.

You can be a great leader all you want but if the talent is no longer there then who cares?? Did you see Brown in Chicago? He didn't look to good to me, especially for almost twice Villareal's salary. It has nothing to do with like or dislike of the player. Ruben is personally one of my all time favorites but the time was right to let him go.

[juice]

You can be a great leader all you want but if the talent is no longer there then who cares?? Did you see Brown in Chicago? He didn't look to good to me, especially for almost twice Villareal's salary. It has nothing to do with like or dislike of the player. Ruben is personally one of my all time favorites but the time was right to let him go.Obviously You didn't see Brown in Chicago, If you had you would have seen that he replaced a starter due to injury and that Guy returned after injury as a backup.. Even after Ruben missed time after his injury, he was still the starter.

Someone thought he was starting material.. and Chicago's line is no worse than the Bills.

Your telling me that Ruben with his Leadership abilities wouldn't have been more effective that Puscillo or Smith.. Is that your position?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Obviously You didn't see Brown in Chicago, If you had you would have seen that he replaced a starter due to injury and that Guy returned after injury as a backup.. Even after Ruben missed time after his injury, he was still the starter.

Someone thought he was starting material.. and Chicago's line is no worse than the Bills.

Your telling me that Ruben with his Leadership abilities wouldn't have been more effective that Puscillo or Smith.. Is that your position?

Juice you never seem to get the point. Let me state it again. Ruben was making a very large salary for the Bills. He no longer had pro bowl talent. We signed a player of similar talent to a much cheaper contract. What else needs to be said? Do you think that Ruben was making that same salary in Chicago? NO he was signed for a much cheaper contract. We couldn't really sign him to cheaper contract because we already had Villareal, plus the fact that pride and going in a new direction came into play. Are we clear?

[juice]

Juice you never seem to get the point. Let me state it again. Ruben was making a very large salary for the Bills. He no longer had pro bowl talent. We signed a player of similar talent to a much cheaper contract. What else needs to be said? Do you think that Ruben was making that same salary in Chicago? NO he was signed for a much cheaper contract. We couldn't really sign him to cheaper contract because we already had Villareal, plus the fact that pride and going in a new direction came into play. Are we clear?Have you ever played the game? Have you ever heard of Loyalty? Ruben was willing to play for less money and he told the front office people as much.. He Wanted To Stay In Buffalo.

Is that simple enough for you?

Yes he signed for much less in Chicago, just like he would have signed for less in Buffalo because he wanted to stay here.. TD needed a scapegoat and Brown was the Chosen One.

This year it will be rew Bledsoe to take the fall for the lack of Personnel upgrades on the line.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Have you ever played the game? Have you ever heard of Loyalty? Ruben was willing to play for less money and he told the front office people as much.. He Wanted To Stay In Buffalo.

Is that simple enough for you?

Yes he signed for much less in Chicago, just like he would have signed for less in Buffalo because he wanted to stay here.. TD needed a scapegoat and Brown was the Chosen One.

This year it will be rew Bledsoe to take the fall for the lack of Personnel upgrades on the line.

Have you ever played in the NFL? I played in High school. Who cares?

Loyalty??? While this may be a game it is also a business. Obviously our talent evaluation department didn't think he was a better player than Villareal and I am ok with that decision. From what I can tell Villareal this year is a better player than Brown was last year and that is all I need.

[juice]

Have you ever played in the NFL? I played in High school. Who cares?

Loyalty??? While this may be a game it is also a business. Obviously our talent evaluation department didn't think he was a better player than Villareal and I am ok with that decision. From what I can tell Villareal this year is a better player than Brown was last year and that is all I need.Did your HS team have any Loyalty towards each other as Teammates?

I need a little more to be totally convinced.. Something like the Playoffs might do the trick.

We have had a top 5 Defense 2 years in a row and this year we have the #1 ST unit.. all that You expect is an 8-8 season? You should try raising you expectations or convince the "Evaluators" to lower theirs.. Maybe the Talent Evaluators should look for more in the Loyalty of the players as evaluation Criteria.

[colin]

i agree that we should not have cut brown, but you are going a bit overboard juice.

he was overpaid at the end there, but i really wonder what the full story is, i think TD might have told him if he calls out Gregg or whatever then TD will have to cut him, and then Brown went ahead and did it or something.

more importantly, Big Pat has been my favorite Bill since 98/99 and I even tried to get a Jersey of his when I was a broke ass student. I think he has been one of the better DTs in the NFL for the past 5 years, and perhaps the most consistent.

[lordofgun]

In the first 3 games Willis was averaging less than 2.5/carry and thats off the top of my head.. Post all the stats LOG since your looking them up..
In the first three games, Willis had a whopping ELEVEN carries at 2.6 per carry...hardly enough to indict the OL. Perhaps the problem was that the coaching staff was starting the wrong RB.

[juice]

In the first three games, Willis had a whopping ELEVEN carries at 2.6 per carry...hardly enough to indict the OL. Perhaps the problem was that the coaching staff was starting the wrong RB.Perhaps.. Or maybe there were no holes to run through due to lack of leadership, but one thing we do know is that L. Smith or Puscillo wasn't the long term answer.

Thats the reason I watch the Games and rely as little as possible on stats. I can say from what I saw that we had the least productive O-Line in the League through Week 3.

[lordofgun]

Perhaps.. Or maybe there were no holes to run through due to lack of leadership, but one thing we do know is that L. Smith or Puscillo wasn't the long term answer.

Thats the reason I watch the Games and rely as little as possible on stats. I can say from what I saw that we had the least productive O-Line in the League through Week 3.
Well TH had a whopping 3.5 YPC average last year behind your boy RB. Not exactly stellar.

[juice]

Well TH had a whopping 3.5 YPC average last year behind your boy RB. Not exactly stellar.Take those stats and compare the first half of the season averages to the second half.. See the difference, Travis averaged around 2 ypc over the first 3 games of that year, and that was with Gilbride calling the plays. When the Offense started running the ball consistantly his averages went up.

[lordofgun]

Take those stats and compare the first half of the season averages to the second half.. See the difference, Travis averaged around 2 ypc over the first 3 games of that year, and that was with Gilbride calling the plays. When the Offense started running the ball consistantly his averages went up.You say you're not into looking at stats so you'd rather just make them up to support your arguments??

Now take a careful look at what you just posted. You're making my point and destroying yours. You've been complaining that the OL got off to a slow start this year because RB is gone. Yet YOU JUST POSTED in your last post that the OL struggled early last year as well.

So you see, RB made no difference. In fact, by your argument that you just stated (complete with made-up stats), the 2003 OL (with RB) was WORSE out of the gate last year.

[juice]

You say you're not into looking at stats so you'd rather just make them up to support your arguments??

Now take a careful look at what you just posted. You're making my point and destroying yours. You've been complaining that the OL got off to a slow start this year because RB is gone. Yet YOU JUST POSTED in your last post that the OL struggled early last year as well.

So you see, RB made no difference. In fact, by your argument that you just stated (complete with made-up stats), the 2003 OL (with RB) was WORSE out of the gate last year.You might have a point if he was the only lineman and MW wasn't trying to find his identity, But I dont remember the Bills only running behind LG last year.

So you think l. Smith or puscillo were improvments over RB? I'll leave looking up stats to you guys who believe in them.. what I am saying is that Henry was a 1400 yd rusher in consecutive seasons behind the line that had r. Brown as captain.

This year Henry isn't worth a 3rd rounder to any team in the League.. That was the direct result of the R. Brown situation.. Not to mention the 0-4 start to the season and loss of a postseason appearance.

[tampabay25690]

I really hope he signs, Pat is real good people and a great player...Would love to see him as a BILL forever...

[Mr. Cynical]

Why are we still talking about a lineman that is no longer here? I thought this thread was about Pat Williams. :idunno:

[helmetguy]

I should have been a little more specific (or literal). Juice, who, ON OUR OFFENSE did not struggle at the beginning of the year? In case you missed it, this O-line HAS been growing more cohesive. Would you prefer four guys moving forward while one is going in reverse? Keeping RB would have been holding this line back. Time to move forward.

[Hemlepp53]

This is awsome... I as well like to hear things of this nature. I like loyality to the team and the fans.... He rocks... Good Stuff Big Pat

[juice]

Pat is a good guy to have on your team, Honest days work for an honest days pay.. He won't let a dollar figure change his life. He is active with charities in Buffalo and , I didn't know he owned a Detail Business in the Area.. He's a homeBoy he'll Stand Pat.:up:

[lordofgun]

Pat is a good guy to have on your team, Honest days work for an honest days pay.. He won't let a dollar figure change his life. He is active with charities in Buffalo and , I didn't know he owned a Detail Business in the Area.. He's a homeBoy he'll Stand Pat.:up:
At least until he starts sucking like RB did. :D

[justasportsfan]

TD made a mistake in cutting the starting LG without addressing the position and that is the reason the team may miss the Playoffs again this year. :roflmao: :lol!: :lmao:

We missed the playoffs because we cut Ruben. 1 player cost us the season.

I nominate this as the dumbest post of the year.

[chernobylwraiths]

This is awsome... I as well like to hear things of this nature. I like loyality to the team and the fans.... He rocks... Good Stuff Big Pat

As I said earlier in this thread, don't be surprised if fair market value for a DT in Pat Williams's eyes or at least his agent's eyes is more than what Adams makes. I've heard the good soldier before saying they wanted to stay in Buffalo. Winfield originally said it and I know Price said it. I will take a page from Mr. C. and say, "I'll believe it when I see it."

By the way, just to chime in on it, I think I would have loved to have kept Ruben here this year. If he would have taken a pay cut to the amount he is now making in Chicago for this year I would not have had any problem with it whatsoever.