espn.com reports on Jones contract

[venis2k1]

its a little bigger than i thought it would be, 3 years $3.3 million not including bonuses. While Jones is expected to miss the rest of this season recovering from a left knee injury

also favors might be suiting up as soon as this week.

[DIHARD2]

I like the idea of the bonuses. In today's free agency and with the cap factor, bonuses will be the way to keep a team together and dominant in today's NFL. If I'm not mistaken bonuses are not counted against the cap figure. It's the right way to go not only for the players but also for the longevity of a dominating team.

GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...

[Bruce is Loose]

you are mistaken, bonuses ARE counted against the cap figure, although their cap impact is spread over the length of the contract. In fact, large bonuses are the way to get into cap hell and make it harder to cut a player that should be cut.

[Earthquake Enyart]

You novices should leave this kind of analysis for the pros. Where's clump?

[Billsouth]

why r our cheerleaders the ugliest in the league?

[venis2k1]

Billsouth, if you were an incredably hot chick, would you rather live in buffalo, or miami...i think my signature awnsers that question.

no offense to the gals of buffalo ;) i still love ya

[Ebenezer]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
You novices should leave this kind of analysis for the pros. Where's clump?


maybe I can shed some light :skeptic:


From the infor you provided ($3.3 mil for $3 years) there is no way to tell what the cap impact is. Need more details than that.

Now, again, bonus are constructed in various ways:

signing bonus: the total amount of the signing bonus is divided over the length of the contract. this eases cap pain unless the player gets cut early in the contract.

Likely to be earned bonuses: these are performance bonuses that the player will probably obtain (determined by the league not the team). they count against the cap BEFORE the season begins. If the player does not reach these goals the team gets a credit the following season.

Not likely to be earned bonuses: these are performance bonuses that the player will probably NOT obtain (team makes SB, player rushes for 2000 yards). they count against the following years cap if the player reaches these goals in the season indicated.

others
roster bonus, workout bonus, appearance bonus: if the player is on the active roster as of a certain date, meets all the requirements of # of workouts or appears at a predetermined amount of minicamps, etc. and receives a bonus for meeting those goals then the amount of bonus counts against the cap in that year.

crystal clear correct???

now as to the point of getting into long term jeopardy...the team only gets into jeopardy if they sign many players for big signing bonuses; signing one or two players doesn't really hurt the team. the problems start when many players are signed year after year after year to large signing bonuses.

bottom line: we have no clue what the signing of Jones does to the cap at this time...need more details.

[AG75]

Originally posted by venis2k1
Billsouth, if you were an incredably hot chick, would you rather live in buffalo, or miami...i think my signature awnsers that question.

no offense to the gals of buffalo ;) i still love ya

Well I am a little offended. I live in Buffalo, and im pretty cute damnit and I see beautiful people here just like I do anywhere else. I see girls as "generic and blonde" as the ones in that cheerleaders pic you got there here as well, so I hate to burst your bubble.

Some of the Jills are gorgeous(just check out the twilgiht zone forum), and one of them posts here so maybe a little consideration please???

Im sorry, I just get so tired of the knocks Buffalo takes. Then the implications that only the "beautiful" people of Buffalo move away and the unattractive ones stay? Give me a break!

Rant over!:tomato:

[The_Philster]

:10: AG75

[venis2k1]

I didnt mean to piss anyone off, there are tons of hot chicks in buffalo, i am just jealouse cause' i can't get any of em :(

[DIHARD2]

Ebenezer, the fact is a bonus will help in a long run, against the cap. Each player will have to perform a minimal expectancy for their position, such as a back that carries the ball, should produce four yards every touch, anything over that would be a bonus for the team a and his pocket.

I was under the impression that incentive bonuses didn't count against the cap, but I see that I was misinformed somewhat. Anytime a good money manager such as Donahoe sets up a contract using incentives he knows pretty much what that player basic costs is going to be against the team. The idea is to get more out of a player and when you put a carrot in front of a donkey he will pull the chart.

In today's NFL a system is going to have to be created in a way that you're producing better out of players of equal quality and ability on each team because of the cap factor.

OT, When someone makes a derogatory comment, toward a person without knowing the person or that person's knowledge and ability, then that person who's making such a remark just show their lack of intelligence. It also shows there lack of insight into the discussion. What I'm trying to say politely, is that person makes himself look bad and shows others how much of a donkey's butt they themselves are. Do you not see it the same way Earthquake Enyart ?

GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...

[itsandthings]

There are no incentive bonuses in Jones contract. There is a 2004 escalator clause which would increase his salary a great deal and force a new contract, should he meet certain performance levels.

His contract is made up of:

2002 - $185,294.12 in base salary

2003 - $1.275M in base salary and a $250K roster bonus (due 3/1/03), for a $1.525M cap figure.

2004 - $1.5M in base salary and a $250K reporting bonus (due at the start of training camp), for a $1.75M cap figure. There is the salary escalator as well.

That is it. It is a pretty straightforward contract. There is no signing bonus.

[DIHARD2]

itsandthings, appreciate the information. Where did you go to find this information, it would make things a lot easier on a few of us who are interested in this part of the game.

GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...

[SABURZFAN]

Originally posted by itsandthings
There are no incentive bonuses in Jones contract. There is a 2004 escalator clause which would increase his salary a great deal and force a new contract, should he meet certain performance levels.

His contract is made up of:

2002 - $185,294.12 in base salary

2003 - $1.275M in base salary and a $250K roster bonus (due 3/1/03), for a $1.525M cap figure.

2004 - $1.5M in base salary and a $250K reporting bonus (due at the start of training camp), for a $1.75M cap figure. There is the salary escalator as well.

That is it. It is a pretty straightforward contract. There is no signing bonus.


the worst case scenario is that if jones' injury continues to plague him,the BILLS are only out $185k.that's chump change.if he recovers nice and shows a little of what he has done in the past,jones could be a hell of a steal.great work on TD's part.

[WG]

DH,

Not sure about incentive bonuses counting against the cap, although I'm sure they do and must, but most bonuses are signing bonuses. Whether or not they help a team "keep a team together" is arguable. I guess the basic answer is yes, but eg., do we really want to keep say Robinson, Fletcher, and Newman together for all that long? Again, I suppose it's debatable although IMO the answer is no.

Here's a very basic bonus/cap-hit example; Say a player signs a 3-year contract w/ a SB of $3M. That SB is prorated, generally speaking, over the 3 years of that contract just as Eb laid out above. So each season, whatever that player gets in salary plus whatever the annual proration of that SB are, go against the cap for that team.

That's actually oversimplifying things a bit. But its the way things work generally. Then you add in "certain dates" and other stuff that allows for some "manipulation." In any case, the larger the bonus, the greater the odds that a player will be around. Anytime you cut a player, whatever gross amount remains on that players "unearned SB", ie. whatever amount hasn't been counted against the cap, all gets counted when you cut that player generally speaking.

Let's assume that of that $3.3M $2M were a bonus. That would have been stupid IMO b/c if Jones would not have been healthy for next season, say he gets injured again in PS, then we couldn't afford to cut him b/c we would save the paltry amount of salary, but we'd have to suck up a huge bonus amount already paid.

So for players, a SB is great thing. They get the $$ up front and they're guaranteed longer longetivity on the team since it's nearly impossible to cut a player w/ a very large bonus. Moss for example; I can't remember his bonus, but if the team cuts him, then that enormous bonus all comes due that season or that season and the next depending upon the date.

Hope that helps. Again, Eb and clump know more on the intracacies, but generally speaking, that's the way it works, and that's why large bonuses are not a good idea for anything but the most proven of players. Injury risks are horrible players to shell out huge bonuses for.

Just remember that when you cut a player, the salary, generally speaking, does not have a great impact if at all on the cap. It's the amount of SB that hasn't accrued. So when a player is signed, the only amount that the team necessarily must pay that player and the amount that still needs to count against the cap, is the SB. Salary only gets paid if a player actually plays.

[clumping platelets]

:huh:

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
DH,

Not sure about incentive bonuses counting against the cap, although I'm sure they do and must, but most bonuses are signing bonuses. Whether or not they help a team "keep a team together" is arguable. I guess the basic answer is yes, but eg., do we really want to keep say Robinson, Fletcher, and Newman together for all that long? Again, I suppose it's debatable although IMO the answer is no.

Here's a very basic bonus/cap-hit example; Say a player signs a 3-year contract w/ a SB of $3M. That SB is prorated, generally speaking, over the 3 years of that contract just as Eb laid out above. So each season, whatever that player gets in salary plus whatever the annual proration of that SB are, go against the cap for that team.

That's actually oversimplifying things a bit. But its the way things work generally. Then you add in "certain dates" and other stuff that allows for some "manipulation." In any case, the larger the bonus, the greater the odds that a player will be around. Anytime you cut a player, whatever gross amount remains on that players "unearned SB", ie. whatever amount hasn't been counted against the cap, all gets counted when you cut that player generally speaking.

Let's assume that of that $3.3M $2M were a bonus. That would have been stupid IMO b/c if Jones would not have been healthy for next season, say he gets injured again in PS, then we couldn't afford to cut him b/c we would save the paltry amount of salary, but we'd have to suck up a huge bonus amount already paid.

So for players, a SB is great thing. They get the $$ up front and they're guaranteed longer longetivity on the team since it's nearly impossible to cut a player w/ a very large bonus. Moss for example; I can't remember his bonus, but if the team cuts him, then that enormous bonus all comes due that season or that season and the next depending upon the date.

Hope that helps. Again, Eb and clump know more on the intracacies, but generally speaking, that's the way it works, and that's why large bonuses are not a good idea for anything but the most proven of players. Injury risks are horrible players to shell out huge bonuses for.

Just remember that when you cut a player, the salary, generally speaking, does not have a great impact if at all on the cap. It's the amount of SB that hasn't accrued. So when a player is signed, the only amount that the team necessarily must pay that player and the amount that still needs to count against the cap, is the SB. Salary only gets paid if a player actually plays.



Originally posted by clumping platelets
:huh:




Isn't that stuff your job? :D
:bigwave:

[clumping platelets]

:gag:

[WG]

LOL

He knows all that! I'm just tryin' to help w/ an oversimplified example...

Usurping the "Cap Guys'" territory...

:D

[Cntrygal]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
LOL

He knows all that! I'm just tryin' to help w/ an oversimplified example...

Usurping the "Cap Guys'" territory...

:D

:lol: it is under 500 words.

:D

I liked the Moss example - thanks! :)