Are you guys content with bad qb play...

[Tatonka]

this is not some "Start JP" thread..

i am asking a simple question..

are you content with bad quarterback play as long as we are winning games against easy teams due to good defense and a good rb..

obviously, the play of the qb will determine the outcome of the game.. at the latest, that most likely will happen in the playoffs when the opponents are quality..

some of you may feel the qb isnt actually playing poorly, if all you are judging him on is if we won the game.. but most notably the seattle game and today stand out to me..

but i am just wondering how you guys feel about that.. are you content with it, because we are winning, or does it bother you, because you can see how it will effect us at some point in the near future.

[cordog]

this is not some "Start JP" thread..

i am asking a simple question..

are you content with bad quarterback play as long as we are winning games against easy teams due to good defense and a good rb..

obviously, the play of the qb will determine the outcome of the game.. at the latest, that most likely will happen in the playoffs when the opponents are quality..

some of you may feel the qb isnt actually playing poorly, if all you are judging him on is if we won the game.. but most notably the seattle game and today stand out to me..

but i am just wondering how you guys feel about that.. are you content with it, because we are winning, or does it bother you, because you can see how it will effect us at some point in the near future.

That weather today wasn't fun to sit in, let alone throw in. Moulds dropped 2 td passes today, so lets be objective in evaluating todays game. It was wet and nasty.

[Dozerdog]

How was the weather in North Carolina today?

I know I froze my nut off in the snow and wind today.

I'll accept poor receiving results from Moulds in the first half - the balls off his hands- due to the weather. Since we won and all.


If I had a choice between better QB stats or Better W-L record- I'll take the W-L record.


Don't fool yourself. If JP started today his numbers would be comparable to Drew's. Don't let a single drive against a demoralized, beaten team laced with backups fool you in garbage time.

[Mr. Cynical]

Well you know how I feel and this game did nothing to change that feeling. We won in spite of Drew.

[willis_mchenry]

I am content as long as we are winning. Sure, I'd like the QB to play better most of the times but winnning is all that matters. Bledsoe performed poorly Sunday but the defense was there to pick him up and they put on a hell of a show. A lot of teams would like better play from their quarterbacks but we are lucky to have a defense that is able to perform like they did today. We all know the defense won't play like this every week but neither will the offense (hopefully). Let's be happy we won and get ready for Cincinnati.

[cordog]

Well you know how I feel and this game did nothing to change that feeling. We won in spite of Drew.

What did he do in this game to lose it?

[juice]

Yes I'm content as long as the team as a whole is progressing and competing every week.

We could be at 6-10 and handing the Cowboys a top 10 pick.

As long as the entire unit appears to be buying into MM's system, we will be able to convince players like JJ and Pat W. to stand Pat instead of bailing out on what appears to be a situation going south and an organization in turmoil.

Just Win Baby and we will be able to attract some FA line help.

[juice]

How was the weather in North Carolina today?

55 degrees and Sunny.

A Canadian Artic blast has caused the Temps to drop from last weeks highs of 70.

[Dozerdog]

Is it me, or are most of the anti- drew crowd people who go to 1 or 2 games or less a year- while many of those who attend a lot of home games (and sat through the Fins, Jets, Cards, and Browns weather) are less harsh about Bledsoe's stats?


I'm sure it's not all split like that- but it seems like a majority are......

[Mr. Cynical]

What did he do in this game to lose it?
It is more about what he didn't do to win it. Remember, this game was at home against a 3-9 team with the 22nd ranked defense. If he is to play caretaker as many have suggested and want, then you don't make 2 turnovers and complete 44% of your passes. The defense won this game for us. I'll take the win, but you can't play like that against a good team.

[cordog]

It is more about what he didn't do to win it. Remember, this game was at home against a 3-9 team with the 22nd ranked defense. If he is to play caretaker as many have suggested and want, then you don't make 2 turnovers and complete 44% of your passes. The defense won this game for us. I'll take the win, but you can't play like that against a good team.

The D did win this game for us, but how can you throw around 44% when i can remember at least 3 dropped passes? The weather conditions were nasty today. It was cold, windy, wet and snowy. Not easy throwing conditions.

[Dozerdog]

It is more about what he didn't do to win it. .
Translation- 100 yards passing in a 30 point blowout. It's the stats, silly!

[Mr. Cynical]

Is it me, or are most of the anti- drew crowd people who go to 1 or 2 games or less a year- while many of those who attend a lot of home games (and sat through the Fins, Jets, Cards, and Browns weather) are less harsh about Bledsoe's stats?


I'm sure it's not all split like that- but it seems like a majority are......What does that have to do with anything? Completely meaningless point. Do you play in the NFL? Do you know what it is like to play as a professional football player in the rain or snow? Were you on the field? Sitting in the stands drinking your beer doesn't give you instant credibility.

[Mr. Cynical]

The D did win this game for us, but how can you throw around 44% when i can remember at least 3 dropped passes? The weather conditions were nasty today. It was cold, windy, wet and snowy. Not easy throwing conditions.This is the same old tired argument.

The weather.

The drops.

The oline.

The system.

Do you ever stop to think that Drew just might...just maybe...just possibly...is not a very good QB? His career completion percentage is 57%. This is nothing new.

[Dozerdog]

Ah...gotta be sitting in the living room recliner to have the cred then, eh?

All I'm saying is, being there - witnessing the 30 mph winds, the snow stinging your face because it's sandblasting your skin- you can understand how a Pro-Bowl receiver can drop 3-4 passes off his hands. That affects the precious stat sheets. The important thing is, having a guy who isn't handing the opposition the ball every play. We saw that earlier this year in Baltimore. Thankfully, the Baltimore like games are becoming farther and fewer between. He will never impress the stat guys. If he learns how to win- I'm happy.

Bret Favre had one completion the first half of his game today. Does he suck too?

[cordog]

This is the same old tired argument.

The weather.

The drops.

The oline.

The system.

Do you ever stop to think that Drew just might...just maybe...just possibly...is NOT a very good QB? His career completion percentage is 57%. This is nothing new.

Did you see the drops???? Did they happen or not? Dont throw around stats when they dont tell the old story.

Do you know what 30mph winds in the cardinals game feel like?

Come on man, if you had any clue you would not discount the weather here in Buffalo and the swirling winds in the Ralph.

Look at Moorman. His stats dont tell the whole story of how great the guy is because he plays in the Ralph. No one here discounts that.

[Dozerdog]

This is the same old tired argument.

The weather.

The drops.

The oline.

The system.

Do you ever stop to think that Drew just might...just maybe...just possibly...is not a very good QB? His career completion percentage is 57%. This is nothing new.
It does get tiring- 30 point wins and all we get is bellyaching.

[cordog]

Just found this:

Game Weather: Light snow
Played Outdoor on Turf: AstroPlay Temp: 31° F (-0.56° C), Humidity: 56%, Wind: S 10 mph
Outdoor Weather: Forecast: continued light snow, winds S 15-20 mph, temps in mid-30s

[Mr. Cynical]

Bret Favre had one completion the first half of his game today. Does he suck too?
He didn't throw an INT nor did he lose a fumble, and ended up with 53% completion even after the bad start.

And to quote Longwell, "The wind was blowing harder than I've ever seen it here."

So no, he doesn't suck too.

[Dozerdog]

I see- wind in Lambeau is OK- even though they pulled a win out of their ass at home at the last second against a sucky team....


...wind in Buffalo is a non factor, even nthough we trounce an opponent by 30.


I give up. I'm done chasing my tail tonight.

[Mr. Cynical]

I see- wind in Lambeau is OK- even though they pulled a win out of their ass at home at the last second against a sucky team....


...wind in Buffalo is a non factor, even nthough we trounce an opponent by 30.


I give up. I'm done chasing my tail tonight.:rofl:

You are the one whining and defending Drew saying "its the weather".

You are the one who brought up Brett.

So I show that even with bad conditions, Brett didn't throw INTs, fumble and have a terrible completion rate. Not to mention the Lions were 5-7 and the Clowns were 3-9.

[willis_mchenry]

<a href="http://cat-ra.universal-music-group.com/_classics/_ram/s1/044001375729_01_07_00.00-01.30_s1.ram">Click Here</a>

[BSXIII]

I wan't overly impressed by Bledsoe today, but he had a pretty good game overall. If Moulds comes down with some very catchable balls his line would look much better than it did.

[Typ0]

I can't just give Bledsoe the benefit of the doubt because of the weather. I appreciate and respect you guys who went out there to brave the weather and support the team...but just because there was wind does not have the weight in favor of Bledsoe like you are suggesting. If that were the case, then he would be headed to the pro-bowl with consistent and solid performances every week to help the team.

Instead, I have seen him really stink up the joint in good and bad weather. If he can do it in good weather too then I don't think you can support a 1 to 1 correllation between the weather and drews poor performance. And he did stink up the joint today yet again. Yeah, we got a 30 point win against a team in total dissarray...I know they are the worst team in the league right now...not because of their talent just because things have fallen apart with their program. So they are vomit. We beat up on vomit today. I would like to see DB come out and first be the type of player that won't do things that can beat us...and second one that can step up and win us a tough game. Drew has already had plenty of opportunities this season alone and pulled up lame.

I'm not trying to DB bash...but I am not at all happy with the performance we have gotten from the QB position. If Clevelend weren't so clearly falling apart and more concerned with evaluations than winning right now...Drew did a fine job today giving them plenty of opportunities to stay in the game and take it away from us. If that had been cincy playing us they just might have outscored us...as our great defense will actually be tested instead of playing inept teams.

What I know about Drew...or at least what I've noticed in the last couple years...is he is OK when he is doing OK but he can never get himself out of a funk. Once things go downhill...even if it's in the first quarter....he's just lost out there. He can't take charge of the situation...and he makes mistakes that hurt as a result of trying too hard. He looks bad in those cases and that is not the type of consistency and confidence you want going into the coin-toss of mission critical games.

I'm really happy to have gotten a win this week. I'm really happy we have been on a good run and actually gotten ourselves positioned to vie for a playoff spot. That is very impressive for this team. We all love wins...but we want to win it all and in order to do that we have to beat good teams. A 30-9 win against the clevelend browns in a snow storm just does not do it for me. We beat St. Louis and Seattle when they were on a downtrend...and we beat the JETS once when they were beat up. We lost to JAX, OAK (yuck), NE (twice -- ouch), JESTS and BALT. I think we have trouble not only winning against good teams...we are also letting average teams beat us consistenly.

When we go against Cincy and PIT...I hope drew does not go pick happy as those teams are much better prepared to take advantages of those mistakes. Cincy is not that great on defense...PITT on the other hand is an all around good team that is winning games. When Drew comes out in that game and plays great to send us into the playoffs....then i'll be more willing to forgive and give him some props...right now I see nothing but fluff and our winning in spite of his performances instead of him driving our winning.

[im4bflo]

this is not some "Start JP" thread..

i am asking a simple question..

are you content with bad quarterback play as long as we are winning games against easy teams due to good defense and a good rb..

obviously, the play of the qb will determine the outcome of the game.. at the latest, that most likely will happen in the playoffs when the opponents are quality..

some of you may feel the qb isnt actually playing poorly, if all you are judging him on is if we won the game.. but most notably the seattle game and today stand out to me..

but i am just wondering how you guys feel about that.. are you content with it, because we are winning, or does it bother you, because you can see how it will effect us at some point in the near future.
It bothers me, Drew was throwing more bad passes, and that will kill you against the better teams. Winning makes it easier to take, but I am concerned.

[Mr. Cynical]

In our 7 wins, 3 have come against winning teams. Drew's performance in those games:

Seattle (road): 25/37, 275, 1 TD, 3 INTs (20th ranked D)
Jets (home): 18/30, 184 YDS, 1 TD (6th ranked D)
St. Louis (home): 15/24, 185 YDS, 3 TDs, 1 INT (25th ranked D)

His best game was against the Jets - solid comp % and no INTs against a winning team with a high ranked D. St. Louis has a lousy D and are 5-6, and against a reeling Hawks team he tosses 3 INTs. That would normally have lost the game but Seattle was wholly inept that day.

Drew has done nothing this year to show me he has changed one iota. He can't play well against winning teams, especially on the road.

[The Predator]

Well you know how I feel and this game did nothing to change that feeling. We won in spite of Drew. Exactly!!!

:rofl:1 TD, 2 Turnovers, And 100 Yards???:rofl:

Thats Sorry!!!

Drew Bledsoe Is Our Biggest Weakness.

How Explosive Would We Be With A Good QB???

GO BILLS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>04

[colin]

pennington has been bad against winning teams, and even lost to the bills on the road!! he should be cut

Farve should be cut 8 million times over of course.

Just about evern QB we have played was poor against us, all cut.
and EVERY RB we have played has been beaten up by our D, so they get cut too.

Alexander? Cut.

Martin? Cut.

Taylor? Cut.

Cut them all.

Drew's last week against Miami throwing 4 TDs against the #5 pass D in the NFL on the road in a divisional match up that we need to win? Who cares.

Here are the quarterbacks you could have signed for big money in the off season:

Warner
Garcia
Brunell

Wow, they sure are winning, I think every single on of them is undeafeted on the roadm, scoring at least 44 touchdowns against winning opponents.

Football is a one man game, played in a vacuum, no weather conditions or opponents.

[jmb1099]

Bledsoe's play even while winning is a concern, but to deny or make too little of the weather conditions is a bit silly. Drew will take us as far as he can this year, will probably put up a spirited contest in camp for the starting position in camp, may even initially get the nod, but he will not be the starting qb by years end. Still, if we can continue to run the table than that brings us to a whole new place with Bledsoe. Why? Because Drew's problem his entire career has been his lack of "killer instinct", he has never known how to "win". If we do indeed run the table then one has to wonder if MM and company have figured out how to make him produce wins. Think of it this way...Pitsburgh is having a great run but Big Ben's stats are less than spectacular...every stat that is except the "win" column.
Just some food for thought...

[Captain gameboy]

I think it must be a sign of pure boredom to have all this text on Bledsoe after yesterday's game. Yes he missed a few passes, and he made a couple of great throws. Totally inconsequential.

What is really starting to irritate me is this excuse making for professional wide receivers.
The receiving standards in the NFL never required the quarterback to lead the receiver perfectly and hit him in the numbers until now, evidently.
Moulds is dropping balls he's never used to have a problem with.
Tasker accurately points out the balls were a bit behind, but those should have been routine catches, and so should the ball he dropped in the left corner of the endzone.
If Joe Burns makes that catch last week we probably go in for the score and run the clock instead of having a D'lineman end the game.
I'm starting to wonder if people are trying to make the Bledsoe issue a career here.

What really is bothering me about this team is this epidemic of shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly.
False start takes away a field goal and ends up in a no point posession when we had it inside the 10.
A pick that would have sealed a shutout is lost on a neutral zone infraction. Penalties on almost every special team's play last week.
As nice as this run has been, this is still a relatively undisciplined team and that gives me much more concern.

I am anxious for the Losman era to begin, but it sure as hell isn't now, and there is way too much scrutiny by fans and commentators on Bledsoe's performance yesterday.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

IMO, the one thing Drew can't do is throw the ball under pressure. The guy gets some heat and you never know where the ball is going. I'll take the win, but I have to agree, Drew was not very good yesterday.

[The King]

I had a game yesterday morning and it wasnt easy to throw or catch and we didnt have half the weather WNY did.

I dont understand why the haters are complaining.... They got everything they wanted a win and poor stats from Drew. So whats to complain about guys!? You should be happier than pigs in ****.

Were Bledsoes throws perfect yesterday? No. Were they on target? No. Did Bledsoe do anything to lose the game? No.

Do you guys know how many games Brady has won with stats like this? Even NE fans dont complain about a W. Get used to it we are not a passing team anymore Drew is going to average 150-200 yards and about 2 TDS a game. Not that it matters though the 'haters' found a way to complain with 277 and 4TDS.

Moulds is playing like utter crap... he used to be one of the best physical recievers in the game and hes getting beat by DBs for the ball!? Drops 2 passes Im pretty sure I couldve brought in and does nothing to redeem himself. If I am the coaching staff I am taking him out of a few plays to send him a message because right now McGee is making better catches than Moulds.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Gimme Trent Dilfer and a Super Bowl trophy over Dan Marino and his passing records any day of the week.

[mybills]

...

[Tatonka]

I dont understand why the haters are complaining.... They got everything they wanted a win and poor stats from Drew. So whats to complain about guys!? You should be happier than pigs in ****.



Moulds is playing like utter crap... he used to be one of the best physical recievers in the game and hes getting beat by DBs for the ball!? Drops 2 passes Im pretty sure I couldve brought in and does nothing to redeem himself. If I am the coaching staff I am taking him out of a few plays to send him a message because right now McGee is making better catches than Moulds.


i am not complaining.. just wondering how everyone else feels about it..

EE, your point is dead on.. but dilfer didnt make mistakes.. drew will, when it counts.. so he can play poorly and we will win against scrubs.. but if, by the grace of god we make the playoffs.. dont expect a dilfer like performance.. excpect a 3 int, 1 td performance, and a loss more than likely, no matter what playoff team it is.

and MB.. your dead on with that last statement about moulds.. while drews passes were anything but on target, moulds is looking worse every game.

if moulds and bledsoe could just play decent, we would have won by 45 points.

such is life.. glad we won.. the defense looked great.. and willis did it again. :up:

[Tatonka]

I can't just give Bledsoe the benefit of the doubt because of the weather. I appreciate and respect you guys who went out there to brave the weather and support the team...but just because there was wind does not have the weight in favor of Bledsoe like you are suggesting. If that were the case, then he would be headed to the pro-bowl with consistent and solid performances every week to help the team.

Instead, I have seen him really stink up the joint in good and bad weather. If he can do it in good weather too then I don't think you can support a 1 to 1 correllation between the weather and drews poor performance. And he did stink up the joint today yet again. Yeah, we got a 30 point win against a team in total dissarray...I know they are the worst team in the league right now...not because of their talent just because things have fallen apart with their program. So they are vomit. We beat up on vomit today. I would like to see DB come out and first be the type of player that won't do things that can beat us...and second one that can step up and win us a tough game. Drew has already had plenty of opportunities this season alone and pulled up lame.

I'm not trying to DB bash...but I am not at all happy with the performance we have gotten from the QB position. If Clevelend weren't so clearly falling apart and more concerned with evaluations than winning right now...Drew did a fine job today giving them plenty of opportunities to stay in the game and take it away from us. If that had been cincy playing us they just might have outscored us...as our great defense will actually be tested instead of playing inept teams.

What I know about Drew...or at least what I've noticed in the last couple years...is he is OK when he is doing OK but he can never get himself out of a funk. Once things go downhill...even if it's in the first quarter....he's just lost out there. He can't take charge of the situation...and he makes mistakes that hurt as a result of trying too hard. He looks bad in those cases and that is not the type of consistency and confidence you want going into the coin-toss of mission critical games.

I'm really happy to have gotten a win this week. I'm really happy we have been on a good run and actually gotten ourselves positioned to vie for a playoff spot. That is very impressive for this team. We all love wins...but we want to win it all and in order to do that we have to beat good teams. A 30-9 win against the clevelend browns in a snow storm just does not do it for me. We beat St. Louis and Seattle when they were on a downtrend...and we beat the JETS once when they were beat up. We lost to JAX, OAK (yuck), NE (twice -- ouch), JESTS and BALT. I think we have trouble not only winning against good teams...we are also letting average teams beat us consistenly.

When we go against Cincy and PIT...I hope drew does not go pick happy as those teams are much better prepared to take advantages of those mistakes. Cincy is not that great on defense...PITT on the other hand is an all around good team that is winning games. When Drew comes out in that game and plays great to send us into the playoffs....then i'll be more willing to forgive and give him some props...right now I see nothing but fluff and our winning in spite of his performances instead of him driving our winning.

great post.. you should do it more often! :up:

[Ebenezer]

Gimme Trent Dilfer and a Super Bowl trophy over Dan Marino and his passing records any day of the week.
:jawdrop: we agree.

[Tatonka]

:jawdrop: we agree.


if only bledsoe could run a game like dilfer.. mistake free.

at this point.. i dont even trust drew to be a caretaker.

:nervous:

[The King]

i am not complaining.. just wondering how everyone else feels about it..

EE, your point is dead on.. but dilfer didnt make mistakes.. drew will, when it counts.. so he can play poorly and we will win against scrubs.. but if, by the grace of god we make the playoffs.. dont expect a dilfer like performance.. excpect a 3 int, 1 td performance, and a loss more than likely, no matter what playoff team it is.

and MB.. your dead on with that last statement about moulds.. while drews passes were anything but on target, moulds is looking worse every game.

if moulds and bledsoe could just play decent, we would have won by 45 points.

such is life.. glad we won.. the defense looked great.. and willis did it again. :up:

Well I said it two weeks ago... Drew will play well next week and we will win...

I have a crow in one hand and a celebratory beer in the other. Look for the Sunday night PFFF thread.

[Ebenezer]

i am not complaining.. just wondering how everyone else feels about it..


yes you are...if you weren't you wouldn't have brought it up...

Look, DB sucked in the first quarter and can't throw in front of his intended receiver on a flare pattern...but at this point in the season the team is winning and his job is to hold the ship. I'll take him over the combination thrown at the Bills yesterday...

again, show us who they could have signed to come in and do better...do you think putting in Matthews in week 5 against the 'Fins would put the team where it is right now...

***** ***** *****...same story even after a win. That's not cynacism...that's just pure negativity. DB is not the second coming of Kelly. He is holding the team together, the team is growing and winning and learning to win. That will make the adjustment to JP easier.......whether that be next week, next year or in 2006.

[Forward_Lateral]

:jawdrop: we agree.

That makes 3 of us!!! I really think that this D is coming into it's own, and is a lot like the Ravens of 2000, or whenever they won with basically D and a running game. Drew played like poop, yes, but we won 37-7, so I have a hard time whining about his play. Hey, if he plays like that next week and we win again, I'll be happy. Honestly, do you guys really care that much about stats, etc? Drew made some good throws when he had to, just be happy that we aren't Browns fans with Luke McClown and Jeff the Lisp. I felt so bad for Browns fans, I don't know how they won a game at all this year.

[Ebenezer]

if only bledsoe could run a game like dilfer.. mistake free.

at this point.. i dont even trust drew to be a caretaker.

:nervous:
the only player I ever saw who played mistake free was Jesus...Dilfer was far from God...That offense was pathetic - it went 5 consecutive games without a TD.

[Ebenezer]

That makes 3 of us!!! I really think that this D is coming into it's own, and is a lot like the Ravens of 2000, or whenever they won with basically D and a running game. Drew played like poop, yes, but we won 37-7, so I have a hard time whining about his play. Hey, if he plays like that next week and we win again, I'll be happy. Honestly, do you guys really care that much about stats, etc? Drew made some good throws when he had to, just be happy that we aren't Browns fans with Luke McClown and Jeff the Lisp. I felt so bad for Browns fans, I don't know how they won a game at all this year.
I had four great years of entertainment when Kelly and the K-gun were racking up huge numbers...it taught me one thing...stats don't win championships...just win.

[EDS]

I will take a 30 point win every week even if it means crappy QB play, or crappy RB play, or crappy WR play, etc.

On a related not, Tom Brady had a very similar stat line to Bledsoe in week 13 against this same Browns team.

[clumping platelets]

:movie:

[Ebenezer]

I will take a 30 point win every week even if it means crappy QB play, or crappy RB play, or crappy WR play, etc.

On a related not, Tom Brady had a very similar stat line to Bledsoe in week 13 against this same Browns team.
hell...the Bills could have 17 yards on offense and win 37-7 and I would giggle all the way through the week...

what the DB bashers forget when they scream "against a good team" is that the rest of us are not idiots either...against NE, Pitts and Philly turning the ball over 3 times is going to kill you. We know that DB is not the second coming...we know that DB is a .500 QB...we know that DB is prone to mistakes at critical times...we also know that this team has sucked since the Music City Miracle...we just want to win and right now the team is doing that. 7-6...and it could be 9-4 if Nate Clements knocks down a ball and the defense prevents the Jets from coming back to win...

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

the only player I ever saw who played mistake free was Jesus...Dilfer was far from God...That offense was pathetic - it went 5 consecutive games without a TD.

C'mon, Jesus threw that one interception.

[Ebenezer]

C'mon, Jesus threw that one interception.
For crying out loud...how many times do we have to argue about it...

it was tipped........twice. Simon Peter had a hand on it. :D

[BAM]

I will take a 30 point win every week even if it means crappy QB play, or crappy RB play, or crappy WR play, etc.

On a related not, Tom Brady had a very similar stat line to Bledsoe in week 13 against this same Browns team.


AMEN BROTHER. me too

[TedMock]

this is not some "Start JP" thread..

i am asking a simple question..

are you content with bad quarterback play as long as we are winning games against easy teams due to good defense and a good rb..

obviously, the play of the qb will determine the outcome of the game.. at the latest, that most likely will happen in the playoffs when the opponents are quality..

some of you may feel the qb isnt actually playing poorly, if all you are judging him on is if we won the game.. but most notably the seattle game and today stand out to me..

but i am just wondering how you guys feel about that.. are you content with it, because we are winning, or does it bother you, because you can see how it will effect us at some point in the near future.

I'm not content with yesterday's QB performance at all. However, he's been playing relatively well this season, so I wouldn't pull him after one bad game either. I actually see a positive to this. First of all, he's been playing fairly well, so we all know that he was due for a bad game, right? Yesterday was a bad game, but he didn't wilt, choke, and was still moving around in the pocket. 1 pick. Last year, a bad game would've snowballed into 7 sacks and 4 picks. The defense, O-line, and the RB obviously deserve credit for this win. I won't give credit to bad QB play.

[Tatonka]

yes you are...if you weren't you wouldn't have brought it up...

***** ***** *****...same story even after a win. That's not cynacism...that's just pure negativity. DB is not the second coming of Kelly. He is holding the team together, the team is growing and winning and learning to win. That will make the adjustment to JP easier.......whether that be next week, next
year or in 2006.

:roflmao:


:cry:

you and dozer spend as much time crying about the posts of a few people as i do actually discussing football.

[Tatonka]

C'mon, Jesus threw that one interception.


:rofl:

[Tatonka]

However, he's been playing relatively well this season

on the year..

18 TDs.. 20 Turnovers (15 Interceptions.. 5 Lost fumbles)..

:shocked:

i guess that is "relatively well" for him.

[finsrclowns]

this is not some "Start JP" thread..

i am asking a simple question..

are you content with bad quarterback play as long as we are winning games against easy teams due to good defense and a good rb..

obviously, the play of the qb will determine the outcome of the game.. at the latest, that most likely will happen in the playoffs when the opponents are quality..

some of you may feel the qb isnt actually playing poorly, if all you are judging him on is if we won the game.. but most notably the seattle game and today stand out to me..

but i am just wondering how you guys feel about that.. are you content with it, because we are winning, or does it bother you, because you can see how it will effect us at some point in the near future.

It depends on your focus, which for you seems mostly on Bledsoe and mostly negative. I was happy with the win. The D played fabulous. We won big. The week before the D played poorly against the fins, unless you consider giving up 32 to the 27th ranked offense good. But last week DB played very well and picked up the D. That sounds like a team to me.

Bledsoe played well vs. Seattle. That game was won in the first half and our 17 points came mostly via the passing game. The 3 picks did not factor in the scoring for them. We moved the ball very well through the air, which did factor hugely for us. There is no doubt if we win out and sneak into the playoffs that that game was a turning point because it showed DB could lead this team to victory on the road against a winning team.

You're going to have some ugly stats games at RWS. I didn't think Drew was very sharp yesterday, but it wasn't an easy day to throw. The Arizona game was tougher because it was high winds. Bledsoe has the arm to throw through Buffalo weather which not many QB's do. Overall I think he's played well this year.

[justasportsfan]

if only bledsoe could run a game like dilfer.. mistake free.

:nervous:bills would've won 50-7.

[Dozerdog]

:roflmao:


:cry:

you and dozer spend as much time crying about the posts of a few people as i do actually discussing football.
:rofl:

I try to look at the overall picture. I'll call a bad pass a bad pass. I'll call a drop a drop, I'll call a blown blocking assignment a blown blocking assignment.

When TD makes moves, I'll look at them at the time they are made and see who or wat was available and our resources at the time.

It's pretty hard to talk football when the focus is TD sucks....Bledsoe Sucks.... day after day after day.

This team got it's RB, QB, and WR of the future - and at each selection many *****ed and moaned. He's got a bum knee. A WR ? We got too many. We gave up too much. *****ing is a way of life with folks. No one has patience.

Eventually Bledsoe will be phased out. JP will be phased in. It will happen on a timetable that will give the Bils a maximum chance at winning. Tom Coughlin and Dennis Green pulled their QB switches way to early and it cost them a playoff spot. I'm glad this team chose to fix the problems that would help whomever the QB is win.

But it's just too easy to harp on the same old **** each week. Enjoy the winning while we can.

[Dozerdog]

You are aware the team set a scoring record for most points over a 4 game span, right?

I was amazed when I heard that on the radio on the drive home.

[Ebenezer]

You are aware the team set a scoring record for most points over a 4 game span, right?

I was amazed when I heard that on the radio on the drive home.
I said that to clump yesterday...it is amazing...the difference is that the old record in 92 was almost all offensive points...this really is a team event.

[DraftBoy]

The thread went from a decent question to start (thanks T) to another damn Bledsoe bash thread (thanks Cynical). To answer your question: Ill take a win anyday over a good passing game.

This team is finally where it needs to be. We dont need Bledsoe to win the game, we dont need him play mistake free ball. This team is not the ravens of a few seasons ago. We have a great D, not as good as their, but damn good. Jerry Gray has those guys playing great! We have a stud RB who only gets better week after week. We have one pro bowl receiver who needs to get his head out of his ass, and a rookie on the other side who is making a serious run for ROY. OL is jelling, albeit it slowly, but jelling. A win is a win, and its the only stat that matters!

[TedMock]

on the year..

18 TDs.. 20 Turnovers (15 Interceptions.. 5 Lost fumbles)..

:shocked:

i guess that is "relatively well" for him.

C'mon, you know better than that. I know you do because you play sports yourself. You really have to look at it game by game. 9 of the 13 games have been at least average or better. Like I said last week, when he's bad, he's real bad. That's the biggest problem. Think about it. 10 of his 15 picks came in 3 games! Those were obviously 3 real bad games. There are also times when you don't have awesome stats, but you played an awesome game. 16/27, 145 yards and a TD. Are those stats the mark of a good game? Ask Superbowl MVP, Tom Brady. He did what he had to do to win. The problem with all of us as sports fans is that we actually look at these stupid numbers as if they're an accurate indicator of on field performance, yet we all know (at least any of us who've played organized sport) that they're not a very accurate indicator at all. The guy had a bad game yesterday, but we won. The threads started immediately about how we should handle this. Last week, he threw for 277 and 4 TD's, yet some people said that it was because the defense put him in that position. The guy is what he is. He's not Jim Kelly like some believe, but he sure as hell doesn't suck the way others believe. Anybody can see the vast improvment in pocket presence this season. That's a very good thing. It's better to punt and get your fantastic defense on the field in decent position than it is to throw a late-down pick or take a late-down sack, and give your defense poor position.

[Tatonka]

my intent really wasnt to bash bledsoe.. i just wanted people to answer my question.. and some did.. i have a hard time not responding to bledsoe comments when i see them..

finsrclowns and dozer.. you know.. maybe you should look at some of my other posts.. i have stated numerous times how happy i am with the win and how well i feel a lot of other parts of the team played..

i just dont hesitate to call a spade a spade.. drew played poorly yesterday, which is fairly common.. but again.. we won.. which is great.. at some point this season, his play will hurt us and cost us the game.. i think that will be this week... but i hope i am wrong.. i had no problem saying last week that drew played very well.. people assume that i was not sincere.. because they know how i feel about him.

i am also not afraid to call moulds out..

no player is above critisism and just because we win doesnt mean that everything is just great..

i want this team to play the best that it can.. i want big victories against top teams, and though we are playing great ball against weak teams right now, the manner in which we are winning does not convince me that we wont lay an egg against a tough team.

but i am still happy as hell we won in spite of drew and eric playing like crap again.

[Ebenezer]

C'mon, you know better than that. I know you do because you play sports yourself. You really have to look at it game by game. 9 of the 13 games have been at least average or better. Like I said last week, when he's bad, he's real bad. That's the biggest problem. Think about it. 10 of his 15 picks came in 3 games! Those were obviously 3 real bad games. There are also times when you don't have awesome stats, but you played an awesome game. 16/27, 145 yards and a TD. Are those stats the mark of a good game? Ask Superbowl MVP, Tom Brady. He did what he had to do to win. The problem with all of us as sports fans is that we actually look at these stupid numbers as if they're an accurate indicator of on field performance, yet we all know (at least any of us who've played organized sport) that they're not a very accurate indicator at all. The guy had a bad game yesterday, but we won. The threads started immediately about how we should handle this. Last week, he threw for 277 and 4 TD's, yet some people said that it was because the defense put him in that position. The guy is what he is. He's not Jim Kelly like some believe, but he sure as hell doesn't suck the way others believe. Anybody can see the vast improvment in pocket presence this season. That's a very good thing. It's better to punt and get your fantastic defense on the field in decent position than it is to throw a late-down pick or take a late-down sack, and give your defense poor position.
great job!!

[Tatonka]

C'mon, you know better than that. I know you do because you play sports yourself. You really have to look at it game by game. 9 of the 13 games have been at least average or better. Like I said last week, when he's bad, he's real bad. That's the biggest problem. Think about it. 10 of his 15 picks came in 3 games! Those were obviously 3 real bad games. There are also times when you don't have awesome stats, but you played an awesome game. 16/27, 145 yards and a TD. Are those stats the mark of a good game? Ask Superbowl MVP, Tom Brady. He did what he had to do to win. The problem with all of us as sports fans is that we actually look at these stupid numbers as if they're an accurate indicator of on field performance, yet we all know (at least any of us who've played organized sport) that they're not a very accurate indicator at all. The guy had a bad game yesterday, but we won. The threads started immediately about how we should handle this. Last week, he threw for 277 and 4 TD's, yet some people said that it was because the defense put him in that position. The guy is what he is. He's not Jim Kelly like some believe, but he sure as hell doesn't suck the way others believe. Anybody can see the vast improvment in pocket presence this season. That's a very good thing. It's better to punt and get your fantastic defense on the field in decent position than it is to throw a late-down pick or take a late-down sack, and give your defense poor position.


very rational post.. well done.. pos rep coming :up:

[chernobylwraiths]

I wan't overly impressed by Bledsoe today, but he had a pretty good game overall. If Moulds comes down with some very catchable balls his line would look much better than it did.

Welcome to the board BSX.

[The King]

Drew has done a great job avoiding the sack this year.. You can tell he is wicked uncomfortable when being illusive but he has gone from being sacked 5 times a game to once. Big improvement

[Iehoshua]

Gimme Trent Dilfer and a Super Bowl trophy over Dan Marino and his passing records any day of the week.

This says it all. As much as I am in favor of a change, the W is the most important stat to me. When Drew's poor play begins costing us games(again), that's when people will cry for a change.

We've beaten abysmal Miami twice, the bizarro Seahawks, the St. Louis Lams, the Cardinals, the Jets (our strongest victory IMO) and the Cleveland Clowns. Three of these teams MAY be playoff bound, two coming from the NFCrapper. When matched against strong teams, we have been beaten. Drew has faltered. In Drew's history in Buffalo, he has more bad games than good. He's costed us more games than he's lead us to victory. Most victories have been in spite of him rather than lead by him. I don't believe anything he's done recently can erase that, save for a playoff berth. If we go on to the playoffs, all bets are off and I do hope we can make something happen, but if we are killed due to poor QB play, don't act too shocked...

[LtBillsFan66]

How was the weather in North Carolina today?

I know I froze my nut off in the snow and wind today.

I'll accept poor receiving results from Moulds in the first half - the balls off his hands- due to the weather. Since we won and all.


If I had a choice between better QB stats or Better W-L record- I'll take the W-L record.


Don't fool yourself. If JP started today his numbers would be comparable to Drew's. Don't let a single drive against a demoralized, beaten team laced with backups fool you in garbage time.
:up:

[Voltron]

Many of you know I am not a big fan of Drew’s play since he came to Buffalo. The fact of the matter is he has been doing what is asked of him. He manages the game. I believe that is what they called it when the raven went to the Super bowl with Trent Dilfer. I believe that is what Tom Brady did his first year when he won a super bowl. We have begged and pleaded all year not to put the whole game on drew. Then when they hand the ball off more people ***** about Drew's stats!!! WHAT THE HELL DO YOU F@$*%N WANT?????!!!!! The fact of the matter is he is still a better option than any one else on the team, I bet about 12 teams in the NFL right now would give their first born to have Drew starting instead of who they have at this point. Is Drew the second coming of Jim Kelly? No. Is he doing a decent Job of managing a game? YES!

[Ebenezer]

my intent really wasnt to bash bledsoe.. i just wanted people to answer my question.. and some did.. i have a hard time not responding to bledsoe comments when i see them..

finsrclowns and dozer.. you know.. maybe you should look at some of my other posts.. i have stated numerous times how happy i am with the win and how well i feel a lot of other parts of the team played..

i just dont hesitate to call a spade a spade.. drew played poorly yesterday, which is fairly common.. but again.. we won.. which is great.. at some point this season, his play will hurt us and cost us the game.. i think that will be this week... but i hope i am wrong.. i had no problem saying last week that drew played very well.. people assume that i was not sincere.. because they know how i feel about him.

i am also not afraid to call moulds out..

no player is above critisism and just because we win doesnt mean that everything is just great..

i want this team to play the best that it can.. i want big victories against top teams, and though we are playing great ball against weak teams right now, the manner in which we are winning does not convince me that we wont lay an egg against a tough team.

but i am still happy as hell we won in spite of drew and eric playing like crap again.
btw, McGahee had 40 yards going into the final drive against Miami and had fumbled earlier in the game - i.e., he had a stinker (the defense played poorly in the first half but held tight)...would you have gotten on here and complained about McGahee if the Bills had lost? Did you get on here and complain about McGahee?

[Ebenezer]

Many of you know I am not a big fan of Drew’s play since he came to Buffalo. The fact of the matter is he has been doing what is asked of him. He manages the game. I believe that is what they called it when the raven went to the Super bowl with Trent Dilfer. I believe that is what Tom Brady did his first year when he won a super bowl. We have begged and pleaded all year not to put the whole game on drew. Then when they hand the ball off more people ***** about Drew's stats!!! WHAT THE HELL DO YOU F@$*%N WANT?????!!!!! The fact of the matter is he is still a better option than any one else on the team, I bet about 12 teams in the NFL right now would give their first born to have Drew starting instead of who they have at this point. Is Drew the second coming of Jim Kelly? No. Is he doing a decent Job of managing a game? YES!
that's all some of us are trying to say.

[Tatonka]

WHAT THE HELL DO YOU F@$*%N WANT?????!!!!!


is perfection too much to ask??

:peace:

[Voltron]

is perfection too much to ask??

:peace:

:spit:

[Tatonka]

btw, McGahee had 40 yards going into the final drive against Miami and had fumbled earlier in the game - i.e., he had a stinker (the defense played poorly in the first half but held tight)...would you have gotten on here and complained about McGahee if the Bills had lost? Did you get on here and complain about McGahee?


yeah.. mcgahee is not above critisism.. but mcgahee having one somewhat poor game but being very good in all the others is a lot different than drew sucking cosisently over his entire career against decent teams.

[Ingtar33]

37-7

If bledsoe threw 10 ints, and was sacked 15 times, i'd still be alright. 37-7

As long as we are winning, i couldn't care less.

[justasportsfan]

. WHAT THE HELL DO YOU F@$*%N WANT?????!!!!!
We want him to play better against good teams and on the road. After all , that's what we are up against if we ever do make playoffs.

[chernobylwraiths]

C'mon, Jesus threw that one interception.

And he was terrible in the face of the blitz, but does he need to be crucified for it?

[Iehoshua]

37-7

If bledsoe threw 10 ints, and was sacked 15 times, i'd still be alright. 37-7

As long as we are winning, i couldn't care less.

Not every team is Seattle or Cleveland. Throwing picks, getting sacked and fumbling is going to catch up to us with better teams, bank on it.

[Ebenezer]

yeah.. mcgahee is not above critisism.. but mcgahee having one somewhat poor game but being very good in all the others is a lot different than drew sucking cosisently over his entire career against decent teams.
so you call a spade a spade only when somebody has multiple bad games...now I understand.

[Ebenezer]

And he was terrible in the face of the blitz, but does he need to be crucified for it?
:roflmao: but he did overcome, RISE above it and win in the end...that is what matters.

[Tatonka]

Not every team is Seattle or Cleveland. Throwing picks, getting sacked and fumbling is going to catch up to us with better teams, bank on it.


:bikerbabe

[Ingtar33]

We are on a 4 game winning streak, and have won 7 of the last 9.

I'll repeat myself; as long as we're winning i could care less about stats. Its been since 1999 that we’ve had a run like this. I’m going to enjoy it and not stress myself out about what might be. The past is the pass, and in the end all anyone will remember is if we went 10-6 or 8-8, not if Drew threw for 4000 yards and 30 TDs, or 2500 yards and 18.

Besides, Drew is going to start the rest of the way. Nothing will change it, so why bother to talk about it?

[cordog]

so you call a spade a spade only when somebody has multiple bad games...now I understand.


also by looking at just the stat line and not taking into consideration when there are 25 mph winds, rain/snow, etc. etc.

[Ebenezer]

Not every team is Seattle or Cleveland. Throwing picks, getting sacked and fumbling is going to catch up to us with better teams, bank on it.
how many sacks and fumbles were there yesterday?

[chernobylwraiths]

my intent really wasnt to bash bledsoe.. i just wanted people to answer my question.. and some did.. i have a hard time not responding to bledsoe comments when i see them..

finsrclowns and dozer.. you know.. maybe you should look at some of my other posts.. i have stated numerous times how happy i am with the win and how well i feel a lot of other parts of the team played..

i just dont hesitate to call a spade a spade.. drew played poorly yesterday, which is fairly common.. but again.. we won.. which is great.. at some point this season, his play will hurt us and cost us the game.. i think that will be this week... but i hope i am wrong.. i had no problem saying last week that drew played very well.. people assume that i was not sincere.. because they know how i feel about him.

i am also not afraid to call moulds out..

no player is above critisism and just because we win doesnt mean that everything is just great..

i want this team to play the best that it can.. i want big victories against top teams, and though we are playing great ball against weak teams right now, the manner in which we are winning does not convince me that we wont lay an egg against a tough team.

but i am still happy as hell we won in spite of drew and eric playing like crap again.

Yes, I said yesterday that the team won despite a poor performance by Bledsoe. His throws many times seemed off, especially to crossing receivers. Be that as it may, we won and by a lot of points. All of our points were scored by the offense this week. I think Bledsoe is no small part of that. At least in that one drive where the receivers were just turning around and waiting for the ball, he was dead on.

I will take a win. I would like to see both good production and a win, but a win is a win. I'll tell you, I would have hated to see a loss last week with Bledsoe's stats. Somehow, he would have been responsible for that loss even though he helped put a lot of those points on the board.

Funny thing is, I was wondering how the non DLC would slant that fumble by McGahee until I saw that they actually credited the fumble to Drew. I mean Drew only put it right in the middle of his body, I didn't think it would be his fault.

[Ebenezer]

also by looking at just the stat line and not taking into consideration when there are 25 mph winds, rain/snow, etc. etc.
the weather just sucked...Willis was having lots of trouble adjusting.

[cordog]

the weather just sucked...Willis was having lots of trouble adjusting.

It has sucked in 3 home games

[Ebenezer]

Yes, I said yesterday that the team won despite a poor performance by Bledsoe. His throws many times seemed off, especially to crossing receivers. Be that as it may, we won and by a lot of points. All of our points were scored by the offense this week. I think Bledsoe is no small part of that. At least in that one drive where the receivers were just turning around and waiting for the ball, he was dead on.

I will take a win. I would like to see both good production and a win, but a win is a win. I'll tell you, I would have hated to see a loss last week with Bledsoe's stats. Somehow, he would have been responsible for that loss even though he helped put a lot of those points on the board.

Funny thing is, I was wondering how the non DLC would slant that fumble by McGahee until I saw that they actually credited the fumble to Drew. I mean Drew only put it right in the middle of his body, I didn't think it would be his fault.
In his post game press conference McGahee even said he fumbled it...

[Ebenezer]

It has sucked in 3 home games
There have been 7 home games...I have worn my heavy fall jacket or my winter jacket, wool hat and leather gloves to 5 of them...that is insane.

[Ingtar33]

Funny thing is, I was wondering how the non DLC would slant that fumble by McGahee until I saw that they actually credited the fumble to Drew.

all QB to RB exchanges that are fumbled are credited to the QB, never the RB. Its just the way the NFL keeps its stats.

[cordog]

There have been 7 home games...I have worn my heavy fall jacket or my winter jacket, wool hat and leather gloves to 5 of them...that is insane.

Yep, other than the first two games of the year its been bad

[Iehoshua]

all QB to RB exchanges that are fumbled are credited to the QB, never the RB. Its just the way the NFL keeps its stats.
This helped my fantasy team where I had McGahee.
:biggrin:

[chernobylwraiths]

all QB to RB exchanges that are fumbled are credited to the QB, never the RB. Its just the way the NFL keeps its stats.

Cool. That's a fumble that doesn't come off my fantasy team. :up:

[clumping platelets]

all QB to RB exchanges that are fumbled are credited to the QB, never the RB. Its just the way the NFL keeps its stats.


QB has control and loses control. RB never really has control......this is how I heard it explained once

[chernobylwraiths]

This helped my fantasy team where I had McGahee.
:biggrin:

:up: You and me both.

[Forward_Lateral]

Tatonka, what is the answer to your question. How do you feel about it? I mean the question of this thread btw, I'm not going to re-type it because I'm a fat lazy bastard.

[finsrclowns]

my intent really wasnt to bash bledsoe.. i just wanted people to answer my question.. and some did.. i have a hard time not responding to bledsoe comments when i see them..




:rofl: This is your thread! The question is phrased as a bash. The question is raised again on victory Monday, which is what gets me a bit riled. Can't I just once read this board on the Monday after a 4 TD win and not find people basically saying "don't feel too good, bad ***** is right around the corner." Maybe I'm too simple a guy but I seriously don't get it.

[Ebenezer]

:rofl: This is your thread! The question is phrased as a bash. The question is raised again on victory Monday, which is what gets me a bit riled. Can't I just once read this board on the Monday after a 4 TD win and not find people basically saying "don't feel too good, bad ***** is right around the corner." Maybe I'm too simple a guy but I seriously don't get it.
as we have said before...certain posters would not be happy with a 52-3 win if DB threw an INT because in the next game he might screw up...

[justasportsfan]

as we have said before...certain posters would not be happy with a 52-3 win if DB threw an INT because in the next game he might screw up...I'm happy w/ the win. I'm just not happy w/ the performance of our qb in this win.

If the weather is a factor, I hope we never play at Greenbay or NE for as long as Drew is our qb.

[Typ0]

why do people who scrutinize DB deserve to be the ones being bashed? I think you people need to grow up and learn to respect others opinions even though you may not agree with them. I see some people expending so much energy on arguing against this so called "bashing" of drew bledsoe. Personally, I've seen him make WAY too many mistakes a veteran should not be making to that that kind of confidence in him and be able to say "he's managing the game well". If Trent Dilfer made the mistakes bledsoe makes during their run to the superbowl they would not have made it...I think you missed the whole point on this. Dilfer did not make mistakes....he was not spectacular but he did not give games away either. Is that true about Drew? OK...commence bashing me as a basher now.

[chernobylwraiths]

I'm happy w/ the win. I'm just not happy w/ the performance of our qb in this win.

If the weather is a factor, I hope we never play at Greenbay or NE for as long as Drew is our qb.

Why? Buffalo weather is usually much worse.

[justasportsfan]

why do people who scrutinize DB deserve to be the ones being bashed? I think you people need to grow up and learn to respect others opinions even though you may not agree with them. I see some people expending so much energy on arguing against this so called "bashing" of drew bledsoe. Personally, I've seen him make WAY too many mistakes a veteran should not be making to that that kind of confidence in him and be able to say "he's managing the game well". If Trent Dilfer made the mistakes bledsoe makes during their run to the superbowl they would not have made it...I think you missed the whole point on this. Dilfer did not make mistakes....he was not spectacular but he did not give games away either. Is that true about Drew? OK...commence bashing me as a basher now.Drew hater :rolleyes:

[Typ0]

Why do we have a QB that can't play in bad weather then?

[chernobylwraiths]

Dilfer's stats in 2000.

comp 133, att 225, yds 1502, TD 12, INT 11

stellar numbers. BTW, don' the Ravens have one of the best offensive lines in the league?

[chernobylwraiths]

Why do we have a QB that can't play in bad weather then?

Well he didn't have a good game. He did well enough against Miami and Arizona in very poor weather conditions, or don't we remember that?

[Typ0]

Well he didn't have a good game. He did well enough against Miami and Arizona in very poor weather conditions, or don't we remember that?

I don't remember that. I am a basher. I am nearsighted and stupid.

[chernobylwraiths]

I don't remember that. I am a basher. I am nearsighted and stupid.

Oh, OK carryone then.

[mybills]

What is Bledsoe getting paid for? That's my answer.
Everyone loves winning, and wasn't this McGahee's 6th 100 yd game?

[Typ0]

Oh, OK carryone then.

thank you for your support!

[Ebenezer]

Dilfer's stats in 2000.

comp 133, att 225, yds 1502, TD 12, INT 11

stellar numbers. BTW, don' the Ravens have one of the best offensive lines in the league?
wow, that's better than I thought he did...:D

[Mr. Cynical]

why do people who scrutinize DB deserve to be the ones being bashed? I think you people need to grow up and learn to respect others opinions even though you may not agree with them. I see some people expending so much energy on arguing against this so called "bashing" of drew bledsoe. Personally, I've seen him make WAY too many mistakes a veteran should not be making to that that kind of confidence in him and be able to say "he's managing the game well". If Trent Dilfer made the mistakes bledsoe makes during their run to the superbowl they would not have made it...I think you missed the whole point on this. Dilfer did not make mistakes....he was not spectacular but he did not give games away either. Is that true about Drew? OK...commence bashing me as a basher now.
:10:

[Mr. Cynical]

Well he didn't have a good game. He did well enough against Miami and Arizona in very poor weather conditions, or don't we remember that?
Miami: 2-11
Arizona: 4-9

[Mr. Cynical]

so you call a spade a spade only when somebody has multiple bad games...now I understand.
And this is a bad thing because? You don't call for someone's head after a bad game or two. You do call for someone's head when they've got an 11 year history.

[Mr. Cynical]

Gimme Trent Dilfer and a Super Bowl trophy over Dan Marino and his passing records any day of the week.
100% agree. Drew is not Dilfer however and that's the problem.

[Ebenezer]

And this is a bad thing because? You don't call for someone's head after a bad game or two. You do call for someone's head when they've got an 11 year history.
an 11 year history of 40,000 passing yards, 2 SB appearances...he is going to get some serious play at the HOF...believe it or not.

[FTG]

:movie:

[justasportsfan]

an 11 year history of 40,000 passing yards, 2 SB appearances...he is going to get some serious play at the HOF...believe it or not.I don't care if Drew was the 2nd coming of Marino if it got the bills no where. I'd rather have Dilfer like nos. w/ a sb win.

[Mr. Cynical]

an 11 year history of 40,000 passing yards, 2 SB appearances...he is going to get some serious play at the HOF...believe it or not.219TD/180INTs...that's 4.8 INTs for every 5 TDs.

57% completion rate

76.7 QB Rating

Technically 2 SB apperances, yes, but in reality, 1 SB apperance. In '01 he played 2 games that year (2 TDs/2 INTs) and then came off the bench for half the AFC Champ game (and did not play very well at all after the first series).

Career W/L against teams over .500 is way less than .500.

Career record on the road is even worse.

Playoff record is 3-4: 2 of those wins came in that SB year. He has lost every road playoff game he has ever started.

Will he get in? Maybe. But it won't be for a very long time imo.

[Ebenezer]

219TD/180INTs...that's 4.8 INTs for every 5 TDs.

57% completion rate

76.7 QB Rating

Technically 2 SB apperances, yes, but in reality, 1 SB apperance. In '01 he played 2 games that year (2 TDs/2 INTs) and then came off the bench for half the AFC Champ game (and did not play very well at all after the first series).

Career W/L against teams over .500 is way less than .500.

Career record on the road is even worse.

Playoff record is 3-4: 2 of those wins came in that SB year. He has lost every road playoff game he has ever started.

Will he get in? Maybe. But it won't be for a very long time imo.
his numbers are among the best in the history of the game and if he is let go he will hook up with another team...he will end up with over 45,000 yards when it is all said and done...his numbers are there...much of what you said can be said about Marino...he got it...

you bashed his 11 year career and then said he might get into the HOF...that's not consistent, is it?

[Tatonka]

if bledsoe gets into the hall of fame.. then the entire hall of fame is one complete joke and drew should be embarrassed for disgracing the people that deserve to be there.

[FTG]

I can't see Drew getting into the HOF. That could change if he has a couple more good seasons and leads the Bills to a SB victory but as of now.............no way he gets in.

[Charlieguide]

Nice trap question.

I'm done with the QB conversations; this is worse than the RJ/DF debates, and we don't need to repeat that. Keep talking, and the press will pick up on it, and then we'll really have a problem.

Support your (W I N N I N G ! ! ! ! ) team or STFU.

[The_Philster]

right now, I think he could get in based on numbers alone
Do I think he deserves to get in yet? I think he's a 50-50 shot

[FTG]

Nice trap question.

I'm done with the QB conversations; this is worse than the RJ/DF debates, and we don't need to repeat that. Keep talking, and the press will pick up on it, and then we'll really have a problem.

Support your (W I N N I N G ! ! ! ! ) team or STFU.


calm down. This is what fans do. This is what Bills boards are for.

[TedMock]

Looking at this really peaked my interest. Bledsoe's played in 169 games. We've seen his stats. I went through and plucked out a few guys who've played approximately the same number of games (give or take). This is interesting... name, games played, yards, TD/INT

Kelly (the man), 160, >35,000, 237/175 (very efficient)

Theisman, 167, >25,000, 160/138

Bradshaw, 168, >27,000, 212/210

Bob Griese, 161, >25,000, 192/172

Layne, 175, >26,000, 196/243

Plunkett, 157, >25,000, 164/198

Simms, 164, >33,000, 199/157 (very efficient)

Tittle, 178, >28,000, 212/221

Young, 169, >33,000, 232/107 (ridiculously efficient)

These are all Hall of Famer's (Young will be) who've played around the same number of games as Drew Bledsoe. Like him, or not, he's statistically at par with most of these guys. I'm the first to admit that I don't like stats that much, but this is a big part of what the committee will look at. He's looking more like a first ballot guy then I thought.

[Tatonka]

Support your (W I N N I N G ! ! ! ! ) team or STFU.


:rofl:

i love when people get so close minded..

"think like i do, or STFU!!!"

nice.. you know where the ignore button is buddy.. and you can tell from the title of the thread that you dont have to read it.. sorry that you came to a message board and not everyone agrees with you.. but contrary to what you might think.. i support the bills plenty.. and i give props where props are due.

get over yourself.

:up:

[Iehoshua]

Nice trap question.

I'm done with the QB conversations; this is worse than the RJ/DF debates, and we don't need to repeat that. Keep talking, and the press will pick up on it, and then we'll really have a problem.

Support your (W I N N I N G ! ! ! ! ) team or STFU.
Yesss drink the Kool Aid despite what's in it! Only un-Bills fans question anything. Evil Haters!
:trance:

[Mr. Cynical]

his numbers are there...much of what you said can be said about Marino...he got it...You're joking, right? You and Phil have made comparisons between Drew and Elway and/or Marino and that has got to be the worst comparison in history. There IS no comparison.

Marino has all the numbers to blow away Drew, e.g.,

61,361 YDS...#1 all time
420 TDS (#1) /252 INTs...almost 1.7 to 1 ratio.
86.4 QB rating, #6 all time
etc., etc...
But this is the most important reason they are not even close:

Among the winningest-ever quarterbacks in NFL regular season history, ranking second in all time regular season victories as a starter. (and he never had a running game)
COMEBACKS: Over the course of Marino’s 17-year career with the Dolphins, he brought the team back from a fourth quarter deficit a total of 37 times, with 21 fourth quarter triumphs at home and 16 on the road … Included in that total were three playoff games in which Marino led Miami back in the fourth quarter … Marino’s total of 37 fourth quarter comeback wins does NOT include 13 additional games, (12 in the regular season and one in the playoffs), that Marino won when the Dolphins were tied (but never did trail) in the fourth quarter, ten at home (one playoff contest and nine regular season games) and three on the road; If those 13 fourth-quarter tied situations are included, then Marino led the Dolphins on a total of 50 game-winning drives (31 at home and 19 on the road) … With 37 fourth quarter comeback victories, Marino ranks second in that category: Denver’s John Elway has 43 final period come-from behind wins … In Marino’s 37 career fourth quarter comebacks, he completed 280 of 441 passes (63.5%) for 3,710 yards with 29 touchdowns and eight INTs in the final stanza for a rating of 104.4 …
Marino threw 32 touchdowns passes in his 18 postseason games, the second highest career total in NFL history
You can use other HoF QBs to make your point, but Marino is definitely one of the worst to support your argument.


you bashed his 11 year career and then said he might get into the HOF...that's not consistent, is it?Some people have gotten into the HoF that I don't agree with, either for political reasons, pure skill stats or sympathy vote. So that's why I said maybe.

[Tatonka]

Yesss drink the Kool Aid despite what's in it! Only un-Bills fans question anything. Evil Haters!
:trance:


you obviously need to STFU!!!!!!!!!

charlieguide said so!!!!!

ROOT FOR BLEDSOE OR DIE!!!

:puke:

[Iehoshua]

you obviously need to STFU!!!!!!!!!

charlieguide said so!!!!!

ROOT FOR BLEDSOE OR DIE!!!

:puke:

Exactly! How dare I call myself a Bills fan when I may question a potential critical weakness in the team! As long as we destroy these Superbowl-bound teams week after week, I should hail everything as perfect! Evil Hater mentality is what I had, evil un-Bills fan thinking!
:trance:

[chernobylwraiths]

Miami: 2-11
Arizona: 4-9

LOL, what has THAT got to do with the weather?

[chernobylwraiths]

And this is a bad thing because? You don't call for someone's head after a bad game or two. You do call for someone's head when they've got an 11 year history.

We need a broken record smilie.

[Mr. Cynical]

Looking at this really peaked my interest. Bledsoe's played in 169 games. We've seen his stats. I went through and plucked out a few guys who've played approximately the same number of games (give or take). This is interesting... name, games played, yards, TD/INT

Kelly (the man), 160, >35,000, 237/175 (very efficient)

Theisman, 167, >25,000, 160/138

Bradshaw, 168, >27,000, 212/210

Bob Griese, 161, >25,000, 192/172

Layne, 175, >26,000, 196/243

Plunkett, 157, >25,000, 164/198

Simms, 164, >33,000, 199/157 (very efficient)

Tittle, 178, >28,000, 212/221

Young, 169, >33,000, 232/107 (ridiculously efficient)

These are all Hall of Famer's (Young will be) who've played around the same number of games as Drew Bledsoe. Like him, or not, he's statistically at par with most of these guys. I'm the first to admit that I don't like stats that much, but this is a big part of what the committee will look at. He's looking more like a first ballot guy then I thought.Couple of things worth noting here.

1. Going back to guys like Tittle and Layne don't really apply. Different era.
2. Everyone else on that list won an SB. Kelly is the exception, but remember he went to 4 SBs and was a leader with a winning record, so that is what got him in. Theisman is the only other non-SB winner on that list and I think the career ending broken leg helped him.

[Mr. Cynical]

We need a broken record smilie.
Nah, just an "I'm right" smilie. :D

[Mr. Cynical]

LOL, what has THAT got to do with the weather?
You said, "He did well enough against Miami and Arizona in very poor weather conditions".

If you are playing a 2-11 or 4-9 team, you would do well in a hurricane against them. That's the point.

[FTG]

Couple of things worth noting here.

1. Going back to guys like Tittle and Layne don't really apply. Different era.
2. Everyone else on that list won an SB. Kelly is the exception, but remember he went to 4 SBs and was a leader with a winning record, so that is what got him in. Theisman is the only other non-SB winner on that list and I think the career ending broken leg helped him.



Theisman won a SB

[Tatonka]

We need a broken record smilie.


your right.. for ALL the people that continue to debate drew and ***** at each other..

:up:

[TedMock]

Couple of things worth noting here.

1. Going back to guys like Tittle and Layne don't really apply. Different era.
2. Everyone else on that list won an SB. Kelly is the exception, but remember he went to 4 SBs and was a leader with a winning record, so that is what got him in. Theisman is the only other non-SB winner on that list and I think the career ending broken leg helped him.

Thiesman did win the Superbowl, in 1982, against Miami. He lost the following year to the Raiders. I do agree that Bledsoe's one superbowl start will be a check against him. The rest of the numbers will probably squeeze him in on try number one. Personally, I feel that he's a HOF'er, but not a first ballot guy. Realistically, I think he gets in on the first shot.

[Mr. Cynical]

Theisman won a SB
You're right...I forgot about that shortened 9 game season in '82. Good catch. :up:

[chernobylwraiths]

Couple of things worth noting here.

1. Going back to guys like Tittle and Layne don't really apply. Different era.
2. Everyone else on that list won an SB. Kelly is the exception, but remember he went to 4 SBs and was a leader with a winning record, so that is what got him in. Theisman is the only other non-SB winner on that list and I think the career ending broken leg helped him.

Theisman won a SB vs. the Dolphins.

[Mr. Cynical]

your right.. for ALL the people that continue to debate drew and ***** at each other..

:up:
:up:

[finsrclowns]

Couple of things worth noting here.

1. Going back to guys like Tittle and Layne don't really apply. Different era.
2. Everyone else on that list won an SB. Kelly is the exception, but remember he went to 4 SBs and was a leader with a winning record, so that is what got him in. Theisman is the only other non-SB winner on that list and I think the career ending broken leg helped him.

FYI, Theisman was the SB winning QB on the '83 Redskins.
Here were his stats from the game.
Washington Att. Comp. Yds. TD Int.
Theismann 23 15 143 2 2

If this was Drew and the Bills won the SB 27-17 with these stats you'd say, "yeah they won, but those are weak stats. Cut him".

[chernobylwraiths]

You said, "He did well enough against Miami and Arizona in very poor weather conditions".

If you are playing a 2-11 or 4-9 team, you would do well in a hurricane against them. That's the point.

Well, that 2-11 team is 2-11 because their offense is pathetic. Their defense is pretty good and at the second meeting was number 1 vs. the pass. And it wasn't because they were awful vs. the run.

Besides, I was just saying that in those games his throws were a lot more on target. Well, at least against the Dolphins they were. I wasn't at the Arizona game but I understand he had a fairly good game. He had a bad game throwing yesterday and didn't do a lot to hurt the team. One INT and a fumble that McGahee admits was his fault since Drew put the ball right into his chest.

[Mr. Cynical]

FYI, Theisman was the SB winning QB on the '83 Redskins.
Here were his stats from the game.
Washington Att. Comp. Yds. TD Int.
Theismann 23 15 143 2 2

If this was Drew and the Bills won the SB 27-17 with these stats you'd say, "yeah they won, but those are weak stats. Cut him".
Actually it was the '82 Redskins, not the '83 team.

[chernobylwraiths]

Man, everyone jumped on Cynical for missing that Theisman winning the SB. :D

[Mr. Cynical]

Man, everyone jumped on Cynical for missing that Theisman winning the SB. :D
Of course. It is such an extremely rare occasion that I forget something that it is a celebration for some people when I do! :party:

[cordog]

if bledsoe gets into the hall of fame.. then the entire hall of fame is one complete joke and drew should be embarrassed for disgracing the people that deserve to be there.


Look at Bradshaws numbers. He had a 49.9% completion %. Namaths career numbers arent great either.

[Mr. Cynical]

Look at Bradshaws numbers. He had a 49.9% completion %. Namaths career numbers arent great either.Both won SBs. Fair or not, that's pretty much a requirement to get in, unless there are extenuating circumstances like Marino's gaudy numbers or Kelly's 4 trips/W-L record.

[cordog]

Both won SBs. Fair or not, that's pretty much a requirement to get in, unless there are extenuating circumstances like Marino's gaudy numbers or Kelly's 4 trips/W-L record.


Oh i agree, i think they both deserve to get in there, but if people just look at #s, they dont tell the whole story. I dont think Bledsoe should get in w/o a SB ring (in a SB he starts)or if he puts up gaudy numbers for a couple years and a SB appearance in which he tears it up in a loss.

[Mr. Cynical]

Oh i agree, i think they both deserve to get in there, but if people just look at #s, they dont tell the whole story.
Believe it or not, I agree. So in your opinion, what beyond passing stats makes Drew a HoF'er?

[cordog]

Believe it or not, I agree. So in your opinion, what beyond passing stats makes Drew a HoF'er?

Sorry Cyn, just answered it when i edited my last post

[TedMock]

You know what's wild about that Theisman injury? At the time he was hurt, his completion % was like 55% and his rating even lower. He had 8 TD's and 16 INT's threw 7 games, and thier record was 3-4. They went 10-6, but missed the playoffs. The following year, Jay Schroeder goes on to have a pro-bowl season, finishing 12-4, making it all the way to a loss in the 1986 NFC championship. Schroeder ends up going down after 11 games in 1987, Doug Williams plays the last five, going 4-1 resulting in a 12-4 finish, and then it's Doug Williams who goes on to win the 1987 Superbowl. Schroeder's still riding on some of his 1986 fame, signs with the Raiders the next season, Williams goes on the next season to lose his starting job to Rypien, and three years later they win again, under Rypien.

So basically, this all means that it's Joe Theisman's fault that we lost our second Superbowl!! Man I hate that guy.

[Canadian'eh!]

Believe it or not, I agree. So in your opinion, what beyond passing stats makes Drew a HoF'er?


And the winner of the Needs to STFU award 2004 goes to........


I was going to write something about Drew... but why should i even bother?

The Bashers will find SOME excuse to bash Drew. That's what they do... they are like a broken record. They aren't going to stop. In fact i am starting to enjoy it. I can't wait until next year when they announce Drew will be starting again and they all dip into the "special Kool-aid" because they jsut can't take it anymore. Unless their heads explode first.

7 for 9...... hate all you want... we are over .500, and thank god the haters don't call the shots... we'd be 0-forever. TD would have been fired already. McGahee would be playing for Oakland. etc etc etc... they always know better than the guys who run the team. meanwhile 7 of the last 9 says otherwise.

Keep hating on Drew... it seems to be working.

(OH and how WEAK is the "Drew will just lose in the playoffs anyway" pile of crap... what a new level of Hating. I can't even believe this. so if we MAKE THE PLAYOFFS, you guys are already working on your So what, we made the playoffs and Drew is going to keep us from the Super Bowl excuse??? I suppose if we won it you would be saying "We'll never win another one with Drew, Jp could seal it for the next 17 years" Give me a break... if we make the playoffs i'll be mad when we lose, then a few days later i'll be amazed at what we accomplished.)

[DaBills]

Can we institute a random post testing procedure to screen for the presence of 'Drew sucks - Drew is God'? And can I also nominate "So they are vomit. We beat up on vomit today." as Funniest But Meaningless Quote of the Year?



"the only player I ever saw who played mistake free was Jesus"

Yeah, but he had a lousy 4th quarter. Overtime is where he really came through.



To answer Tonk's original question:

I will take the win every single time. I'd be a hypocrite to say I wouldn't take the win in favor of ANY player having great stats. I get on the guy when the team loses, so he gets the credit in a win by default. But, there's a few DLC'ers in denial about how great they think he is win or lose. Winning is the tide that raises all boats, including Jennings' little holding-plagued dingy. Everyone looks good in a win.


""what the DB bashers forget when they scream "against a good team" is that the rest of us are not idiots either...against NE, Pitts and Philly turning the ball over 3 times is going to kill you. We know that DB is not the second coming...we know that DB is a .500 QB...we know that DB is prone to mistakes at critical times...we also know that this team has sucked since the Music City Miracle...we just want to win and right now the team is doing that. 7-6...and it could be 9-4 if Nate Clements knocks down a ball and the defense prevents the Jets from coming back to win..."


I think that's valid. There is a degree of extreme views either Pro-Drew/Anti-Drew that paints any anti-Drew post as being TOTALLY against the guy. It is pretty bad when we seem to agree that he won't be consistent enough to even be a Dilfer.

My point has been that 'the better teams' arguement gets lost on DLC who flip a poor performance against a bad team as being 'good.' That's a little crazy imo.

Look, gooder teams take advantage of the mistakes Drew makes, badder teams don't. The one time I saw Drew almost overcome his poor play was against the Jets this year when he came back late and drove for 2 TDs. Otherwise, it hasn't happened often.

Here's a main bone of contention: killing drives by only focusing on Moulds or not running the ball consistently has generated too many 3-and-outs. That's fine against Cleveland, but do we really want to keep putting Brady and the Pats O back on the field every two minutes? Our D gets worn down and we get killed that way.

I have not noticed a drastic difference in DB's style of play though. It's just that it seems the rest of team has finally kicked it into gear and is scoring consistently, ST, defense forcing TO's, WM kicking ass on the ground.

When they weren't, Drew struggled. I think we all have the notion though that the times when we are losing are when a QB needs to take the team on his back and lead.

I mean, he wasn't even trying high-percentage passes like screens compared to the deep balls he was after yesterday — he's trying fades out-of-bounds in double coverage. I appreciate trying to get Moulds involved more, but at what point are you cutting off your nose to spite your face when it just ain't working?

You'd also think in bad weather they would've ground it out with the run far more rather than have Drew try to force throws into double-teams. That to me is a co-ordinator's decision, I won't pin that on Drew.

That fumble was on WM. Drew put it right in the bread basket on replay.

[DaBills]

Adding insult to whatever...

If Drew gets into the HOF, he probably goes in as a Pat.


:shocked:

[Philagape]

at some point this season, his play will hurt us and cost us the game

I'll ***** when it happens, not before

This whole Drew debate is moot. Is there an halfway intelligent person on the planet who would seriously consider starting JP now? There is absolutely no point to complaining about our QB play, because there's not a viable alternative. What can you possibly say about Drew that you know JP can improve upon? Sacks have gone way down, so immobility isn't much of an issue now. Can JP win on the road against good teams? Would JP do any better against a Belichick defense? What effect would starting JP have on the team morale?
I guarantee you, if Willis and the D carried us all the way to a Super Bowl win, people would STILL ***** about Drew.

To answer the thread question ... THERE IS ONLY ONE NUMBER THAT COUNTS!

[Philagape]

Adding insult to whatever...

If Drew gets into the HOF, he probably goes in as a Pat.


:shocked:


In football, there isn't one team assigned to a player

[Iehoshua]

I'll ***** when it happens, not before


I'm not suggesting in any way to start JP at this point. That is obviously dumb (almost as dumb as starting RJ against the Titans). Can't say "when it happens" however since the fact remains Drew's play has already cost us more games than it's won.

[Mr. Cynical]

I dont think Bledsoe should get in w/o a SB ring (in a SB he starts)or if he puts up gaudy numbers for a couple years and a SB appearance in which he tears it up in a loss.Well at least we can agree on that. :cheers:

[DaBills]

And the arguement that goes like this 'Well, Favre had 5 miserable games, etc., let's bench or cut him then' is way off-base. It's not like Drew has a wealth of great games/winning seasons to call upon that make him above benching, (at the very least) when he sucked last year or this year. Favre and Culpepper may be two of the few that do, but even they had questions raised about them from fans.

Question for any hardcore card-carrying member of the DLC:

What QB in this day and age is ABOVE being benched for lousy play? Drew has basically been given the top spot as QB unchallenged for 2 years! How much of a pressure-less position is that? No rook looking over your shoulder, no controversey.

Unfortunately, we had a lack of options at QB, THAT'S why he didn't get benched, otherwise he should've been. It might have done him some good.

[shotgun]

This message is hidden because Canadian'eh! is on your ignore list.

</SPAN>I'm so grateful for this feature. :up:
because u can't take the heat

[Iehoshua]

Question for any hardcore card-carrying member of the DLC:



Any question that isn't one of the following cannot be answered by card-carrying members of the DLC:

How great is Drew?

How much does Drew rock?

You love Drew, don't you?

Drew rules, doesn't he?

Drew's bad game is not his fault, is it?

The list goes on but I think you get the idea. ;)

[Mr. Cynical]

because u can't take the heat
whaht r yoo taulkin abowt?i like heet it is grate.

[Mr. Cynical]

And the arguement that goes like this 'Well, Favre had 5 miserable games, etc., let's bench or cut him then' is way off-base. It's not like Drew has a wealth of great games/winning seasons to call upon that make him above benching, (at the very least) when he sucked last year or this year. Favre and Culpepper may be two of the few that do, but even they had questions raised about them from fans.

Question for any hardcore card-carrying member of the DLC:

What QB in this day and age is ABOVE being benched for lousy play? Drew has basically been given the top spot as QB unchallenged for 2 years! How much of a pressure-less position is that? No rook looking over your shoulder, no controversey.

Unfortunately, we had a lack of options at QB, THAT'S why he didn't get benched, otherwise he should've been. It might have done him some good.
:10:

[Iehoshua]

whaht r yoo taulkin abowt?i like heet it is grate.

Hay man, cut the krap wiht the mispeling, thtas knot funy!

[DaBills]

"In football, there isn't one team assigned to a player"

Whew. Thanks. I didn't know that. I would hate giving the Pats credit for ANYTHING.

;-)

I'm missing the arguement in all the posts, someone catch me up:

does Marino get into the HOF with gaudy numbers and a SB loss, but Drew is excluded for having basically the same thing? That can't be right.

:crazy:

[helmetguy]

I'll take Bledsoe's numbers and our seven wins over Culpepper's and Minnesota's seven wins. Buffalo has been moving forward, Minnesota is running in reverse...again.

[DaBills]

It's great isn't it. I remember when the Vikes were 6-0, and they were talking about how 'we're not gonna' repeat last year's slide, this year it's different, yatta, yatta.'

Hey Moss, nice throw yesterday.

;-p

[Mr. Cynical]

I'll take Bledsoe's numbers and our seven wins over Culpepper's and Minnesota's seven wins. Buffalo has been moving forward, Minnesota is running in reverse...again.
Who would you rather have as the Bills QB, Drew or Dante?

[DaBills]

"Who would you rather have as the Bills QB, Drew or Dante?"

Neither. Jeff George.

;-p


Interesting question anyway. If Dante continues at this pace, will he become the next great perennial 'almost-great' Qb never to achieve much beyond the reg season?

In NFL China, he would dominate though. Him with Yao at WR? Forget about it!


:nervous:

[helmetguy]

That wasn't the question, and that was never a choice. While the records are identical, the Bills are on the rise, and Minnesota is groping for answers to "what went wrong THIS time???"

[helmetguy]

Didn't mean to quote you, DaBills. I edited right after I saw it come up on the screen.

[DaBills]

No prob!

That's ok. No one quotes me anyway.

:bighug:

[helmetguy]

No prob!

That's ok. No one quotes me anyway.

:bighug:
Is that better?

[DaBills]

AT LAST, I'M SOMEBODY. WHOO-HOO!

(Weeping, weeping)


:cry:

[Mr. Cynical]

That wasn't the question, and that was never a choice. While the records are identical, the Bills are on the rise, and Minnesota is groping for answers to "what went wrong THIS time???"
I know that wasn't the question. I'm asking you a new one. Who would you rather have as our QB? Simple question.

[Dozerdog]

I'd take Culpepper. More Mobility. But he's a turnover machine. 101 turnovers since 2000.......Bledsoe has 79. And culpepper has had a lot more offensive talent around him for the long haul

[EDS]

Who would you rather have as the Bills QB, Drew or Dante?

I would take Dante.

Here is a question for you: Which Team would you rather have, Vikings or Bills?

[finsrclowns]

I know that wasn't the question. I'm asking you a new one. Who would you rather have as our QB? Simple question.

You do understand that Culpepper and his 5 year old girl sized hands would be a colossal flop without Moss? And that's with a line that gives him all day to throw. Trade our line for theirs and trade Moulds for Moss and NOONE would be asking this question because IMO Bledsoe's #'s would dwarf Culpepper's. As it is, Culpepper is finding new and interesting ways to choke away another season. Culpepper is hands down the most overrated QB in the NFL.

[Dozerdog]

I kind of lost track with all the posts in this thread. But even better, let's go back to post 1.

Mr Cynical- what would you rather have? A QB that plays like crap but wins, or a QB that plays well but loses?

[Mr. Cynical]

I would take Dante.

Here is a question for you: Which Team would you rather have, Vikings or Bills?
Let's see...

I post on Bills' sites, watch every Bills' game I can, was born in Buffalo and go to a Bills' game once a year for my dad's Bday (who was also born in Buffalo).

I'll give you one guess which team.

[Mr. Cynical]

You do understand that Culpepper and his 5 year old girl sized hands would be a colossal flop without Moss? And that's with a line that gives him all day to throw. Trade our line for theirs and trade Moulds for Moss and NOONE would be asking this question because IMO Bledsoe's #'s would dwarf Culpepper's. As it is, Culpepper is finding new and interesting ways to choke away another season. Culpepper is hands down the most overrated QB in the NFL.
Just so I'm clear on your choice, you would take Drew over Dante, right? I don't want there to be any misunderstandings.

[Mr. Cynical]

Mr Cynical- what would you rather have? A QB that plays like crap but wins, or a QB that plays well but loses?
You need to give me a more specific example. "playing like crap but wins" and "playing well but loses" isn't enough information to make that choice. Too general. Give me two QB names to choose from, or give me a scenario.

[EDS]

Let's see...

I post on Bills' sites, watch every Bills' game I can, was born in Buffalo and go to a Bills' game once a year for my dad's Bday (who was also born in Buffalo).

I'll give you one guess which team.

I know you prefer the Bills as a fan, but which team would you take from a player personnel perspective?

[FTG]

I know you prefer the Bills as a fan, but which team would you take from a player personnel perspective?



Easy choice. The Bills. Although I would take Culpepper over Bledsoe in a heartbeat

[helmetguy]

In Buffalo, I'd stay with Drew. Culpepper puts the ball on the ground too much in a dome, let alone in the cold of WNY.

[cordog]

Let's see...

I post on Bills' sites, watch every Bills' game I can, was born in Buffalo and go to a Bills' game once a year for my dad's Bday (who was also born in Buffalo).

I'll give you one guess which team.



Vikings? :snicker2:

[Mr. Cynical]

In Buffalo, I'd stay with Drew. Culpepper puts the ball on the ground too much in a dome, let alone in the cold of WNY.He has a 70% completion rate, 30 TDs and 10 INTs this year. Not sure I see how he is putting the ball on the ground alot. In addition he has only been in the league 5 years so he has alot more football in front of him. But you made the choice so your call.

[Mr. Cynical]

Vikings? :snicker2:Close but not quite. Try again. :tongue:

:;

[cordog]

He has a 70% completion rate, 30 TDs and 10 INTs this year. Not sure I see how he is putting the ball on the ground alot. In addition he has only been in the league 5 years so he has alot more football in front of him. But you made the choice so your call.


He fumbles ALOT. I have him on my fantasy team. That crap is killing me. One game this season it showed a stat where he has more fumbles than games played.

[helmetguy]

He also plays better than half his games in a freakin' climate controlled dome, has a week to throw, and he still fumbles a lot. Kinda figured you crap another spreadsheet, though.

[helmetguy]

Besides, like I said earlier, Buffalo has been making a stretch run, while Minnesota began fading in the back straight.

[Mr. Cynical]

He also plays better than half his games in a freakin' climate controlled dome, has a week to throw, and he still fumbles a lot. Kinda figured you crap another spreadsheet, though.
I would venture to say you are in the extreme minority of people that would take Drew over Dante. And when I say extreme, I'm being conservative. While he is not perfect, Dante is a young, elite QB just now entering the prime of his career. Drew is the polar opposite, e.g., he is on the tail end and not elite by any standard....well, except for one. His paycheck.

[Canadian'eh!]

You do understand that Culpepper and his 5 year old girl sized hands would be a colossal flop without Moss? And that's with a line that gives him all day to throw. Trade our line for theirs and trade Moulds for Moss and NOONE would be asking this question because IMO Bledsoe's #'s would dwarf Culpepper's. As it is, Culpepper is finding new and interesting ways to choke away another season. Culpepper is hands down the most overrated QB in the NFL.

My thoughts exactly... i do not understand the Culpepper obsession. Jeff George played great in Minnesota too.

[The_Philster]

I would venture to say you are in the extreme minority of people that would take Drew over Dante. And when I say extreme, I'm being conservative. While he is not perfect, Dante is a young, elite QB just now entering the prime of his career. Drew is the polar opposite, e.g., he is on the tail end and not elite by any standard....well, except for one. His paycheck.
Nice way to ignore the pertinent facts in helmetguy's argument :;

[Mr. Cynical]

Besides, like I said earlier, Buffalo has been making a stretch run, while Minnesota began fading in the back straight.
Not gonna argue that the Bills are currently on a better run than the Vikings at this point. But that's not because Drew is a better QB than Dante.

[Canadian'eh!]

I would venture to say you are in the extreme minority of people that would take Drew over Dante. And when I say extreme, I'm being conservative. While he is not perfect, Dante is a young, elite QB just now entering the prime of his career. Drew is the polar opposite, e.g., he is on the tail end and not elite by any standard....well, except for one. His paycheck.

This is why I think Cynical has 0 credibility when talking about Drew. A team with a good Oline, the best WR in the NFL, has always had a consistent running game, and a Qb that puts up huge numbers because of it, has to be better than someone who is winning because of his numbers?

Numbers aren't everything!

I hate Culpepper. he's a good Qb in a great situation. Brad Johnson, Randall Cunningham, Gus Ferrotte (sp?) and Jeff George have looked like stars playing QB for Minnasota since Moss came into the league.

Meanwhile, Culpepper is a big RB who throws a descent deep ball, but fumbles more than anyone else in the league (in a dome at that) and he's elite? why? because he has big numbers? big deal... he hasn't won anything. which was cynicals earlier arguement about Drew. he said Drew has big numbers but doesn't deserve HOF mention because he never won the Super Bowl.

which is it?

Culppeper is elite because of numbers but not Drew.

whatever... i've seen him PLAY. I've also seen this team choke down the stretch for a couple straight years.

If Drew is on that team with his deep ball ability he's setting records

[zone]

if anyone likes it or not, Drew will be in the HOF.

[Philagape]

if anyone likes it or not, Drew will be in the HOF.

I don't see it. Drew isn't even Dan Fouts ... He's more on par with, for example, Dave Krieg (who I liked)

[Dozerdog]

You need to give me a more specific example. "playing like crap but wins" and "playing well but loses" isn't enough information to make that choice. Too general. Give me two QB names to choose from, or give me a scenario.
Figures......:rolleyes:


A QB that has 2 turnovers a game and throws for about 150yards, but his team wins alot....or.... a guy who puts up 300 yards a game, maybe one turnover, and averages 2 or 3 TD passes but can't seem to get his team to .500

[Dozerdog]

I don't see Bledsoe in the HOF- Will Boomer Esiason be a HOF QB? Ken O'Brien?


He didn't dominate the game- the measure of a top QB.

[Mr. Cynical]

Figures......:rolleyes:


A QB that has 2 turnovers a game and throws for about 150yards, but his team wins alot....or.... a guy who puts up 300 yards a game, maybe one turnover, and averages 2 or 3 TD passes but can't seem to get his team to .500
Easy choice. The second one. If you throw 2 INTs a game you aren't going to be winning for long in this league. The turnover ratio is probably one of the most telling stat of how a team is doing. Look at the teams right now in the AFC +/- rankings. The top 6 teams are the current playoff teams. That isn't a coincidence. Marv used to preach that all the time.

[zone]

I don't see Bledsoe in the HOF- Will Boomer Esiason be a HOF QB? Ken O'Brien?


He didn't dominate the game- the measure of a top QB.
Boomer had 37,920 in 14 years

Bledsoe has 39,264 in only 12 years and 10k with 2 diffrent teams

the other stats between the 2 are comparable, but who's to say that Boomer will not get in.

[Dozerdog]

Easy choice. The second one. If you throw 2 INTs a game you aren't going to be winning for long in this league. The turnover ratio is probably one of the most telling stat of how a team is doing. Look at the teams right now in the AFC +/- rankings. The top 6 teams are the current playoff teams. That isn't a coincidence. Marv used to preach that all the time.Well that settles it then... you'r e more interested in stats then wins. If it were the Bills, I'd rather have a QB who throws for 2,400 yards, 18 TDs, 20 Ints and goes 10-6 or 11-5 rather than a guy with 4100 yards, 33 TDs, 17 INTs, and goes 7-9.

At least for me, wins are more important.

[Canadian'eh!]

Well that settles it then... you'r e more interested in stats then wins. If it were the Bills, I'd rather have a QB who throws for 2,400 yards, 18 TDs, 20 Ints and goes 10-6 or 11-5 rather than a guy with 4100 yards, 33 TDs, 17 INTs, and goes 7-9.

At least for me, wins are more important.


His actual answere was going to be... anyone but Drew. I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM, etc

[zone]

Well that settles it then... you'r e more interested in stats then wins. If it were the Bills, I'd rather have a QB who throws for 2,400 yards, 18 TDs, 20 Ints and goes 10-6 or 11-5 rather than a guy with 4100 yards, 33 TDs, 17 INTs, and goes 7-9.

At least for me, wins are more important.
I did not say that... I was talking about the hall of fame and stats are looked at when they make that choice.

I only care about wins. and we have won 7 out of 9 and drew is the qb, that is the bottom line.

[Mr. Cynical]

Well that settles it then... you'r e more interested in stats then wins. If it were the Bills, I'd rather have a QB who throws for 2,400 yards, 18 TDs, 20 Ints and goes 10-6 or 11-5 rather than a guy with 4100 yards, 33 TDs, 17 INTs, and goes 7-9.

At least for me, wins are more important.
Except for one thing. Show me a team that went 11-5 when their QB threw 2 INTs per game. Your scenario isn't a realistic one.

[Dozerdog]

I did not say that... I was talking about the hall of fame and stats are looked at when they make that choice.

I only care about wins. and we have won 7 out of 9 and drew is the qb, that is the bottom line.
I'm talking to Mr Cynical, not you Zone.

As far as the HOF- if they let the likes Of Boomer Esiason in, then they will let Bledsoe in. I just can't see them letting in Boomer.


With passing stats getting larger every year, I don't see the likes of Trent Green or Kurt Warner getting in down the road. Accomplishments more than stats will get measured.

[finsrclowns]

Just so I'm clear on your choice, you would take Drew over Dante, right? I don't want there to be any misunderstandings.

Easy, I'd take Bledsoe. Hear me out. Culpepper fumbles a football more than I fumble for my keys in the morning. And that's with a very good pass blocking line. In Buffalo it would be an absolute joke. And I don't want a QB that runs. Scrambles yes, runs no, except occassionally when necessary. Running QB's get hurt. The only running QB to ever win a SB was Steve Young but he also one of the most accurate. Culpepper would feel a very strong urge to run here with our present OL. And if he sucked or got hurt you're stuck with a huge long term contract.

With Bledsoe you can make a decision to bring him back for another year or not and it doesn't kill you. Either way you've got JP in the wings. I don't know how he'll do, he seems to want to run too much already, but I'd rather take a chance with him than be stuck with Mr. Overrated. People don't grasp how huge of a deal it is for him to have Moss on the team. Moss made Randall Cunningham look good. He made Jeff George look good. Heck he even made Gus Frerotte look good. Note that the Vikes could not win this year when Moss missed a couple games. No way I'd take Culpepper. Believe me, if you took Culpepper away from Moss and his cushy dome and his all pro line and brought him into the Buffalo weather there would be 20 Mr. Cynical's dogging his a$$ by the end of one year. Is that clear enough for you?

[Mr. Cynical]

Easy, I'd take Bledsoe. Hear me out. Culpepper fumbles a football more than I fumble for my keys in the morning. And that's with a very good pass blocking line. In Buffalo it would be an absolute joke. And I don't want a QB that runs. Scrambles yes, runs no, except occassionally when necessary. Running QB's get hurt. The only running QB to ever win a SB was Steve Young but he also one of the most accurate. Culpepper would feel a very strong urge to run here with our present OL. And if he sucked or got hurt you're stuck with a huge long term contract.

With Bledsoe you can make a decision to bring him back for another year or not and it doesn't kill you. Either way you've got JP in the wings. I don't know how he'll do, he seems to want to run too much already, but I'd rather take a chance with him than be stuck with Mr. Overrated. People don't grasp how huge of a deal it is for him to have Moss on the team. Moss made Randall Cunningham look good. He made Jeff George look good. Heck he even made Gus Frerotte look good. Note that the Vikes could not win this year when Moss missed a couple games. No way I'd take Culpepper. Believe me, if you took Culpepper away from Moss and his cushy dome and his all pro line and brought him into the Buffalo weather there would be 20 Mr. Cynical's dogging his a$$ by the end of one year. Is that clear enough for you?Oh, it's crystal clear. Just wanted to make sure you weren't joking, as I assumed anyone choosing Drew over Dante would be. I guess the eternal strength of the DLC knows no limits. Carry on! :up:

[helmetguy]

It's the same old dance. Culpepper is lighting up the stat sheet but, after another hot start, Minnesota will probably miss the playoffs. Conversely, after a woefully slow start, and with Bledsoe's pedestrian stat line, Buffalo is still scrapping and has a shot to make the playoffs. If it comes down to relying on one or two guys to carry you-like Minnesota-you've got problems. In Buffalo's case, we finally have the balance where no single guy or unit has to carry the team. Everyone contributes. I'll take that team any time.

[Dozerdog]

Except for one thing. Show me a team that went 11-5 when their QB threw 2 INTs per game. Your scenario isn't a realistic one.
Sure it is... in the Bills AFC Championship season of 1964, the Bills went 12-2.
Jack Kemp had a 44% completion rate, averaged about 175 yards a game, (2264 yds in 13 games) had 13 TD passes and threw 26 interceptions.


Just to make sure it's not a fluke, in 1965 he followed it up with a 46% completion rate, 2400 yards, 10 TDs and 18 interceptions. They went 10-3-1 and won a second championship.

Average numbers, but two championships. I'll take those over pretty stats and no champonships any day.

[Mr. Cynical]

Sure it is... in the Bills AFC Championship season of 1964, the Bills went 12-2.
Jack Kemp had a 44% completion rate, averaged about 175 yards a game, (2264 yds in 13 games) had 13 TD passes and threw 26 interceptions.


Just to make sure it's not a fluke, in 1965 he followed it up with a 46% completion rate, 2400 yards, 10 TDs and 18 interceptions. They went 10-3-1 and won a second championship.

Average numbers, but two championships. I'll take those over pretty stats and no champonships any day.
Dude, you had to go back FORTY YEARS to pull that stat. :rolleyes:

The game has changed a dozen times over since then. Meaningless example.

[Canadian'eh!]

Dude, you had to go back FORTY YEARS to pull that stat. :rolleyes:

The game has changed a dozen times over since then. Meaningless example.

DAMN RIGHT! ONLY STATS THAT PROOVE CYN's POINT ARE MEANINGFUL!


bills zone fun fact: 3488 of cyn's 3489 posts are about drew.

[Dozerdog]

Dude, you had to go back FORTY YEARS to pull that stat. :rolleyes:

The game has changed a dozen times over since then. Meaningless example.That's just off the top of my head. Marino had many years of gaudy stats but 8-8 finishes.

But feel free to discount the stats that hurt your argument, and embelish those that make your argument.

I'll boil it down in the simplest terms.

Wins over stats.......



If you want stats over wins then more power to ya. But I pay to watch the team win, not make FFL geeks happy.

[cordog]

Sure it is... in the Bills AFC Championship season of 1964, the Bills went 12-2.
Jack Kemp had a 44% completion rate, averaged about 175 yards a game, (2264 yds in 13 games) had 13 TD passes and threw 26 interceptions.


Just to make sure it's not a fluke, in 1965 he followed it up with a 46% completion rate, 2400 yards, 10 TDs and 18 interceptions. They went 10-3-1 and won a second championship.

Average numbers, but two championships. I'll take those over pretty stats and no champonships any day.

I believe in 1993 Favre threw like 27 interceptions and that team went 10-6.

[cordog]

I think Bledsoe in 94 threw like 28 tds and 28 interceptions and that team made the playoffs as well.

[imbondz]

anyone who argues stats over wins is blinded by his hatred for a player

[helmetguy]

Here's a pretty decent stat line:


G PER comp Att % YDS YPG Y/A TD INT
12 95.6 270 407 66.3 3392 282.7 8.3 18 11

Guess who?

[Dozerdog]

Dude, you had to go back FORTY YEARS to pull that stat. :rolleyes:

The game has changed a dozen times over since then. Meaningless example.
Now championships are meaningless examples. Un-friggin-believable.

[Dozerdog]

Here's a pretty decent stat line:


G PER comp Att % YDS YPG Y/A TD INT
12 95.6 270 407 66.3 3392 282.7 8.3 18 11

Guess who?

Rob Johnson?

[cordog]

Here's a pretty decent stat line:


G PER comp Att % YDS YPG Y/A TD INT
12 95.6 270 407 66.3 3392 282.7 8.3 18 11

Guess who?


Bledsoe thru 12 games in 2002?

[chernobylwraiths]

How about Doug Flutie. From what I understand, his stats were never impressive by his win totals were. That is until he went to San Diego.

[helmetguy]

Nope! Just one example of how a nice stat line doesn't necessarily translate into W's.
Trent Green, of the 4-8 KC Chiefs. Recent enough, Cyn?

[Canadian'eh!]

Nope! Just one example of how a nice stat line doesn't necessarily translate into W's.
Trent Green, of the 4-8 KC Chiefs. Recent enough, Cyn?


I bet he blames their D and says it's ot the same situation. (but boy their D is awful they gave up oover 200 yards to Drew Bennett? wow)

[Mr. Cynical]

Now championships are meaningless examples. Un-friggin-believable.
This proves one of two things. Either you just want to argue with me or you don't have a clue about football. I've seen your posts and although I disagree with 99% of them, they are not that clueless. Therefore I can only assume you are being a **** right now.

[Mr. Cynical]

I believe in 1993 Favre threw like 27 interceptions and that team went 10-6.
He had 24 INTs and they went 9-7. It was his second year as a starter in the league.

[helmetguy]

"Not that clueless?" Did I read that right? Meaning you think Dozer is somewhat clueless?

To paraphrase some old dead lawyer who's name escapes me at the moment:
"When the facts are against you, argue stats. When stats are against you, argue facts. When both are against you, just insult."

[Mr. Cynical]

Nope! Just one example of how a nice stat line doesn't necessarily translate into W's.
Trent Green, of the 4-8 KC Chiefs. Recent enough, Cyn?
How about you show me where I said a nice stat line 100% transfers into W's? I said a BAD stat line will translate into losses eventually. There is a difference. Take your time. No hurry.

[cordog]

He had 24 INTs and they went 9-7. It was his second year as a starter in the league.


I wasnt too far off, they made the playoffs right?

[Mr. Cynical]

"Not that clueless?" Did I read that right? Meaning you think Dozer is somewhat clueless?

To paraphrase some old dead lawyer who's name escapes me at the moment:
"When the facts are against you, argue stats. When stats are against you, argue facts. When both are against you, just insult."
You are almost as bad as Phil with reading comprehension. Read my post again. Take some time. No hurry.

[helmetguy]

See? Back to the original question. Green's numbers indicate he's a pretty good QB, yes? He's 4-8. Bledsoe's are pedestrian, and he's 7-6. KC's playing out the string. Buffalo's in the hunt. That was the original point. I like Buffalo's situation a whole lot better than KC's with the pretty QB stat line. I'm just putting it in the same context as your ad hominem dronings. We're winning games. KC isn't. Keep dancing, Bojangles.

[helmetguy]

I've seen your posts and although I disagree with 99% of them, they are not that clueless. Therefore I can only assume you are being a **** right now.


You mean this one?
Like I said, "not that clueless" implies they have an element of cluelessness. Not a thing wrong with my comprehension.

[Mr. Cynical]

See? Back to the original question. Green's numbers indicate he's a pretty good QB, yes? He's 4-8. Bledsoe's are pedestrian, and he's 7-6. KC's playing out the string. Buffalo's in the hunt. That was the original point. I like Buffalo's situation a whole lot better than KC's with the pretty QB stat line. I'm just putting it in the same context as your ad hominem dronings. We're winning games. KC isn't. Keep dancing, Bojangles.
:rofl:

I knew you couldn't show me where I said that about nice stats = W's, and I was wondering what kind of BS you would reply with. Actually I'm a bit disappointed in your lack of creativity. You just avoided it without trying to spin it. Oh well.

[The Predator]

:rofl:Bledsoe In The HOF:rofl:

It's A Madhouse!!!Aaaaaa Mmmmmadhouse!!!

[Dozerdog]

This proves one of two things. Either you just want to argue with me or you don't have a clue about football. I've seen your posts and although I disagree with 99% of them, they are not that clueless. Therefore I can only assume you are being a **** right now.
:rofl:


I'll say it again- Wins over stats.

Take your time with that one...no hurry


They don't give rings for stats. But what would I know...I'm clueless.....

[Mr. Cynical]

You mean this one?
Like I said, "not that clueless" implies they have an element of cluelessness. Not a thing wrong with my comprehension.:roflmao:

You need to stop now cause the hole is only getting deeper for you.

The use of "they are not that clueless" was a direct comparison to his example of the 1964 game. Being that the NFL has changed dramatically in 40 years, that example is totally invalid, i.e., only a clueless person would use it in earnest. I know from his posts that he can't think it was a really valid example, hence, he is "not that clueless". There is no implication of any other element of cluelessness (whatever that means). If you truly comprehended what I posted, you'd realize this was actually a compliment to his football knowledge. (his **** attitude is another matter, however)

But keep on trying. You'll get there eventually! :up:

[helmetguy]

So who has the comprehension problem? I never implied that you DID make that correlation. You're the one who threw that one in. Just the same, this board is littered with enough your "X wins against teams with winning records..." dookie to fill a whole fleet of porta-johns as some sort of proof that this team, as currently composed, should just pack it in and stay out of the playoffs, just so you don't have to suffer the indignity or ignominy of a possible playoff loss. Sorry to disappoint you. I never did learn to dance.

[Mr. Cynical]

So who has the comprehension problem? I never implied that you DID make that correlation.Oh really?


Nope! Just one example of how a nice stat line doesn't necessarily translate into W's. Trent Green, of the 4-8 KC Chiefs. Recent enough, Cyn?Hmm...seems to me you are showing me an example where a nice stat line doesn't translate into W's. Why would you do that if I didn't say it? But wait...I didn't say it. So you are IMPLYING I said it.


I never did learn to dance.
It shows. You keep tripping all over your own feet.

[Typ0]

I think the real issue with all this banter is people are far too defensive about their positions. I think we all know where people stand...and that opposing sides are not going to budge or convince the opposition to adopt their position at this time. Lets see what happens in the next three weeks.

[Mr. Cynical]

:rofl:


I'll say it again- Wins over stats.

Take your time with that one...no hurry


They don't give rings for stats. But what would I know...I'm clueless.....
You haven't responded to my post about the top 6 teams in the turnover ratio right now are the current 6 playoff teams. If you have a QB who turns it over twice a game (using your example), how is that going to work out?

Saying you'd rather have a QB who wins games vs. a QB who has stats...are you saying Drew wins games but doesn't have the stats? I want to take this step by step so I won't go any further until you reply.

[Dozerdog]

I'll repeat myself again.

I want wins. I could care less if the QB has good stats or not. It's irrelivent.

Just wins

[Mr. Cynical]

I'll repeat myself again.

I want wins. I could care less if the QB has good stats or not. It's irrelivent.

Just winsOk, so you're going to avoid the turnover question. That's fine. I know the answer already.

So you just want wins? Ok. When we were 1-5, or 3-13 last year, why not call for Drew's head? Oh, because it is a team game, right? Yet you are giving him credit NOW for winning. It doesn't get any more hypocritical than that.

[Dozerdog]

Ok, so you're going to avoid the turnover question. That's fine. I know the answer already.

So you just want wins? Ok. When we were 1-5, or 3-13 last year, why not call for Drew's head? Oh, because it is a team game, right? Yet you are giving him credit NOW for winning. It doesn't get any more hypocritical than that.
I never gave Drew the credit for winning.

That's your anti- drew hatred painting anyone who does not want to cut drew instantly talking.

I want Losman in eventually- but not when the team is winning 38-9, 37-7, 42-32 , 38-17 each week.


Unfortunatly, Losman had a broken leg at 1-5. So that was moot. He will get his chance.

But we are winning now- so let's not mess that up.

[Mr. Cynical]

I never gave Drew the credit for winning.

That's your anti- drew hatred painting anyone who does not want to cut drew instantly talking.

I want Losman in eventually- but not when the team is winning 38-9, 37-7, 42-32 , 38-17 each week.


Unfortunatly, Losman had a broken leg at 1-5. So that was moot. He will get his chance.

But we are winning now- so let's not mess that up.I never said I wanted to put JP in now. That's your pro-drew love tainting your view.

This is my point in the nutshell.....

Given his history I have no faith that Drew will pull it out when it counts. However, since we don't have a viable alternative, we're stuck with him. Fine. It is what it is. I'm not debating that.

My debate is about Drew as a QB and my views on his impact on the team. This has nothing to do with JP replacing him at this point. It's too late for that now. I blame TD for not cutting Drew before the season and spending half that money on another "serviceable" QB. That is also history, I know.

But what gets me fired up is when people try to paint Drew as a good QB. I mean, there have been comparisons to Marino and Elway for **** sake. You know as well as I do that that is simply ridiculous. Or that he is better than Dante. Puleeeeze. Call a spade a spade. Drew is more often than not a liability to a team (BB released him for a reason). We are winning these games because a) most of those opponents are under .500, b) the D and ST are playing extremely well, and c) WM is cranking. Drew is along for the ride, and the one game on the road against a winning team (Seattle) he tossed 3 INTs. Had Seattle been even slightly more in sync, that would have likely lost us the game.

I just refuse to fall into the same trap that he has laid on people for so many years. If you or other DLC'ers want to have faith that's fine. But if you try to defend him based on his performance, that's the argument I will not just let slide, because it is wrong.

[Dozerdog]

What I am findig hysterical is that you give people crap about "not reading" what you type when you are the most guilty of that yourself.

I never said I wanted to put JP in now. That's your pro-drew love tainting your view.
I never said you said that either. Man it's tough reading for two.

I'm through with this. (Again) I'll stick to talking football and not hyperbole. :wave:

I stuck with this garbage for 6 pages to many

[Typ0]

I have seen DB play well. If it weren't for who he is and what he can do the Patriots would never have won their first SB. He very much deserves the ring he has. I hope he can bring one to all of our players.

[Mr. Cynical]

What I am findig hysterical is that you give people crap about "not reading" what you type when you are the most guilty of that yourself.

I never said I wanted to put JP in now. That's your pro-drew love tainting your view.
I never said you said that either. Man it's tough reading for two.

I'm through with this. (Again) I'll stick to talking football and not hyperbole. :wave:

I stuck with this garbage for 6 pages to many:bs:

Say whatever you want, you implied it very clearly. Why did you bring up JP in your very next sentence then?

That's your anti- drew hatred painting anyone who does not want to cut drew instantly talking.

I want Losman in eventually- but not when the team is winning 38-9, 37-7, 42-32 , 38-17 each week.

I never even MENTIONED JP in my posts to you. Why would you bring him up in a reply to me? Because you were implying I want Drew out and JP in. Don't deny it. Let's just move on. You're right, it is tough reading for two and I don't have time for this garbage either.

[Dozerdog]

I (meaning Dozerdog) wants to see JP Play (Because we drafted him) and that he has potential. But not at this moment in time (Because we are winning)

Ahhh...forget about it. I can't translate English into....english for you. When I want to put words in your mouth, I'll make it very clear i'm doing so.


This isn't that time...OK?

Geesh!

[Mr. Cynical]

I (meaning Dozerdog) wants to see JP Play (Because we drafted him) and that he has potential. But not at this moment in time (Because we are winning)

Ahhh...forget about it. I can't translate English into....english for you. When I want to put words in your mouth, I'll make it very clear i'm doing so.


This isn't that time...OK?

Geesh!
Well, whether in English or Dozerish, it made no sense to all of a sudden bring JP into a debate about Drew, his effectiveness and the effect of a QB's INTs on wins.

[Canadian'eh!]

:bs:

Say whatever you want, you implied it very clearly. Why did you bring up JP in your very next sentence then?

That's your anti- drew hatred painting anyone who does not want to cut drew instantly talking.

I want Losman in eventually- but not when the team is winning 38-9, 37-7, 42-32 , 38-17 each week.

I never even MENTIONED JP in my posts to you. Why would you bring him up in a reply to me? Because you were implying I want Drew out and JP in. Don't deny it. Let's just move on. You're right, it is tough reading for two and I don't have time for this garbage either.



I can't believe this thread. i really can't. I have been having a blast watching the Bills for the last few weeks. they went from the lowst of the lows to actually being in a playoff race and winning exciting games.

Yet there are still these threads where people motivated by blind hatred of a single player drone on and on for hundreds of posts about how terrible someone is and how we have no chance because of him.

If we lose it's his fault, when we win it's in spite of him. Stats ans scenarios get thrown out left andt and rright and no one is even admitting one bit of wrongness.

somone quote me so cynical can answer 1 simple frigging question.
HAVE YOU NOT ENJOYED THIS STREAK FOR ONE DAMN SECOND?

a week ago even the staunchest Drew hater said he played well.... only to revert back to Miami sucks anyway as an excuse.

why not enjoy this streak for as long as it lasts???? it MAY end next week in Cincy, when you'll alld rone on about how we would have own that game if not for Drew no matter how he plays.

every thread here becomes about Drew in some fashion.. no one can make a single commment with out a pot shot thrown in.

If i start a thread about how we can beat cincy it will turn into a "will Drew screw it up" thread. COME ON. WE ARE WINNING!