View Full Version : I'm officially starting the "Get Kevin Gilbride the hell out of Buffalo" Bandwagon
4thAndLong
11-21-2002, 05:11 PM
:skeptic:
"Hit the road jack, and dont ya come back no more, no more, no more, no more..."
He doesn't have what it takes to be a coach in the NFL. All he does is pass.
Look at the Texans game for example, he blew the 1st half of that game for us!! We were doing well on the ground on the Texans, and then starts passing, stick with what works!! This is a top 3 offense, if not #1. Use it! You have players that can get the job done on every position, USE THEM. Not just Bledsoe, there IS more to this team than Bledsoe.
Anyone else hate this guy?
RedEyE
11-21-2002, 05:25 PM
He definitly needs to insert the run more effectively, but I'm not altogether disappointed with him. The Bills have hit an offensive rut and need tweeking. I'll reserve my opinon of the man until after the season. Let's see if the coaching staff can quickly take command and propel the team into overcoming adversity.
RedEyE
11-21-2002, 05:29 PM
However, I'll be the driver of the "Get Jerry Gray the hell out of Buffalo" bandwagon.
TacklingDummy
11-21-2002, 05:47 PM
Bring back Mike Sheppard.
Maybe if Henry didn't have 6 fumbles he would have more carriers.
JayWood
11-21-2002, 05:49 PM
Iam not ready to run the guy out of town, but I will say that 6 fumbles or not, TH is running his a$$ off the last couple of games. Bledose has a great arm, but please let TH run the damn ball.
LuvDaBills11
11-21-2002, 05:52 PM
i never liked giblride but he surprised me this year with the first couple of games but now he is returning to what he did in houston and pitt where he tries to throw too much and doesnt use the run well. i think he is better than shepherd but that is easy to do
Akhippo
11-21-2002, 06:37 PM
I to am looking for the holy grail known as the perfectly called game. Where every run is over 4 yards and every pass is caught. But wait, reality hits. Sure you can say that we should run more at certain times. And you'd be right. But face it, this team has had much worse OC's. For the most part, aside from some obvious situations, this is a btch if he does, btch if he doesnt sort of argument.
venis2k1
11-21-2002, 07:46 PM
wait till the end of the season before we start calling for peoples heads.
Unfortunately the end of the season is just about upon us because he has made some terrible decisions about running the ball late in the game.
4thAndLong
11-21-2002, 08:30 PM
End of the season is too late.
We're not playing for next year, what the hell does that mean anyways?
We're playing for THIS season, RIGHT now. I dont reserve judgments 11 weeks in the season.
He did a good job early, but has been mediocre at best lately. Please, you dont think Henry's fumbles are ALSO part of the coach's problem? Well they are. Fumbles are a mental error as well, and the coaches in the beginning of the season we're getting that stuck in Travis' head.
Kevin Gilbride is a schmoe. Get him the hell out of town. Hell, I'll even pay for his ticket back to Houston.
LOL 4th.
And you call yourself a fan! :D
Yeah, I'm JK. ;)
I hear ya! I will say this, if we had a competent O.C., I have no doubt that we'd have been 7-3 right now. We'd have lost to the Raiders, the Jets b/c of STs, and Denver. But we'd have been in the game vs. the Pats had we run more. We would have beaten K.C.
We also would have beaten the teams that we did beat more soundly.
4thAndLong
11-21-2002, 08:41 PM
I'm also starting Wys the fair weather fan bandwagon too!!
:jk:
4thAndLong
11-21-2002, 08:41 PM
....Oh wait, that one's already made. :dizzy:
DIHARD2
11-21-2002, 08:42 PM
Actually I believe that today Drew admitted to changing the run play in the red zone last week a couple times. I think a lot of the passing has more to do with what Bledsoe sees from the defense, then what's called in from the bench.
If I'm not mistaken wasn't that one of his problems with Belicheck, changing the call and trying to carry the team on his shoulders, not realizing that he had a team that can do it with him?
It's just a thought and I don't think the coaches are going to point fingers if they want to keep it a team win and loose attitude. Give the man the benefit of the doubt on that aspect Bledsoe has the final say on any given play.
GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...
RedEyE
11-21-2002, 08:55 PM
Perhaps I'm the only one that's noticed, but currently there is only a one game seperation between the Bills and the division leading Dolphins, and only 2 games between the Bills and the conference leading Broncos (whom the Bills nearly beat). This division is entirely too tight to call at the present time and the playoffs are at the fate of each and every team. Gilbride isn't the problem. He has taken an entirely new offensive team, fed them a new offensive system and has come out at .500 after 10 games. I'd say that that is better then average. The problem is obviously on the defensive side of the ball. The destructive mixture of a poor defensive scheme and lame talent has soured 3 close games this season (Chiefs, Broncos, & Raiders). The special teams are responsible for another (Jets). The only time that the Bills offense was completely inept was against the Patriots ~ 1 loss out of 5. Of course this is a team game, but there are teams within teams and they must rely on one anothers ability to find the win. The D has failed repeatedly. The offense can only attempt to overcome that deficiency.
We may be only a game apart in record, but we're further than that apart in talent and capability. If we don't fix whatever's wrong w/ our offense, then we'll unquestionably be the worst team in the division.
If we lose this Sunday then we're gonna end up in the basement of the AFCE.
Don Cherry
11-22-2002, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by 4thAndLong
:skeptic:
"Hit the road jack, and dont ya come back no more, no more, no more, no more..."
He doesn't have what it takes to be a coach in the NFL. All he does is pass.
Look at the Texans game for example, he blew the 1st half of that game for us!! We were doing well on the ground on the Texans, and then starts passing, stick with what works!! This is a top 3 offense, if not #1. Use it! You have players that can get the job done on every position, USE THEM. Not just Bledsoe, there IS more to this team than Bledsoe.
Anyone else hate this guy? You are a nut case. I guesswe could always get Mike Shula....:rolleyes:
northernbillfan
11-22-2002, 03:28 AM
When the team falters like this, we look for someone to blame.
4th has a good point in blaming Gilbride and his play calling.
DIHARD thinks it may be Drews fault, changing plays on the line, which Bledsoe has admitted doing.
Redeye wants to drive Jerry Gray out of town.
Mike Sheppard, Travis Henry, the list goes on. We want a scape goat.
The one thing this team is lacking, is discipline. Once they get it together and gel... look out NFL!
Sabre Ally
11-22-2002, 03:46 AM
If someone figures out this thing called 'discipline', could they please send some to the Sabres?
TacklingDummy
11-22-2002, 04:16 AM
If the Bills had a defense that cold stop the other team we wouldn't even be having this conversation. (28.6)
Put the blame on the people who deserve it, GW and JG.
Judge
11-22-2002, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by northernbillfan
When the team falters like this, we look for someone to blame.
4th has a good point in blaming Gilbride and his play calling.
DIHARD thinks it may be Drews fault, changing plays on the line, which Bledsoe has admitted doing.
Redeye wants to drive Jerry Gray out of town.
Mike Sheppard, Travis Henry, the list goes on. We want a scape goat.
The one thing this team is lacking, is discipline. Once they get it together and gel... look out NFL!
Great post!
Earthquake Enyart
11-22-2002, 07:49 AM
I still want to run over Danny Smith with a steamroller.
Didn't we used to have a steamroller smilie?
Novacane
11-22-2002, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
LOL 4th.
And you call yourself a fan! :D
Yeah, I'm JK. ;)
I hear ya! I will say this, if we had a competent O.C., I have no doubt that we'd have been 7-3 right now. We'd have lost to the Raiders, the Jets b/c of STs, and Denver. But we'd have been in the game vs. the Pats had we run more. We would have beaten K.C.
We also would have beaten the teams that we did beat more soundly.
Not trying to get you going Wys but just answer this. How would a differant OC made up 31 points against the Pats? We may have beat KC with better play calling but thats it!
4thAndLong
11-22-2002, 10:23 AM
The point is - Kevin Gilbride doesn't have what it takes to be an NFL OC, or any coach for that matter.
When we start running the ball good, he passes for 3 straight plays, I, for one, cant stand it.
I put KG more to blame than GW and JG, because KG has talent to work with!! Kevin Gilbride doesn't make any adjustments in games, and teams have figured our offense out because of it!
Dont get me wrong, I still hate GW and JG, but KG is at more fault, IMO.
Originally posted by BledsoeTOreedfor6
Not trying to get you going Wys but just answer this. How would a differant OC made up 31 points against the Pats? We may have beat KC with better play calling but thats it!
If we had had an O.C. that wasn't predisposed to passing every time things get even the least bit uncomfortable, then we would have run v. the Pats. The excuse is that we were down by 10 early in the third. Oh boy, what now? Everytime a team is down by 10 w/ nearly 30 minutes left to play, they all go almost strictly to the pass?
N.E. had allowed an average of 167 yards rushing in the 4 weeks prior to us having played them. Henry had 11 carries, mostly in the first half for 53 yards and a 4.8 YPC avg. There is nothing to indicate that he wouldn't have continued to do the same. The Pats no way would have scored 38 and we would have scored more if Henry even had 75% of that 167 or 120+ on 25 carries or so. There was nothing to indicate that the run wasn't working. Nothing at all.
We had a 25 min. and change ToP. There's no way that N.E. would have been on the field for almost 35 minutes had we run the ball. I think our performance vs. K.C. hammers that point home. Each team only had 8 drives in that game.
Again, it is yet another example of a less-than-solid game by Bledsoe, and IMO due to us doing the opposite of the logical thing and the opposite of what 4 teams headed for the playoffs did to set the table for us. I guess we need some dining ettiquette, eh! Again, everyone emphasizing the "302" yards, 80 of which came v. a prevent D on the last drive and w/in the last 2 minutes. The kick in the nads came when we couldn't punch it in three times from within the 4. Twice from the 1.
But then again, what do Schottenheimer, Wannstedt, Shanahan, and Sherman know, eh. ;)
We may not have won that game. But it would have been a game had we run the ball instead of passing against an oustanding and pumped up pass D who clearly knew Drew more than we were able to capitalize on anything that he knew about them. All we heard was about how Drew knew the Pats. Guess they knew him better and Gilbride is so predictable that he doesn't even know what to do when 4 respected head coaches hand him the gameplan. Coaches who's teams are likely all headed to the playoffs as the top teams in them and coaches who's teams are a combined 28-12. An avg. of 7-3.
I really don't know how else that game boils down. I really think we could have won that if Henry had gotten 30 carries or more. He too could have had 167 yards and perhaps Drew's effectiveness would have been greater as a result. But then again, what do I know.
Bombs away against the Jets. If we decide not to run Henry when we're down by 7, then we're gonna get our butts whipped again on Sunday. There's no way that our passing game wins this alone. If Henry fumbles, then so be it. But we can't win games against the remaining teams that we play by passing the ball 70+% of the time. It simply isn't going to happen.
BTW, the Jets are going to run on us successfully this Sunday. So it'll be doubly important for us to.
Novacane
11-22-2002, 11:08 AM
I am starting to come around to seeing your displeasure with KG. I was screaming at the TV last week when we were first and goal at the 5 and threw the ball 3 times! If I'd have been right there I probably would have choked KG for that! I still think the bigger bozo is Jerry Gray but I am starting to get really po'd at KG too. If this keeps up TD should clean house at the end of the year.
ct bills fan
11-22-2002, 11:30 AM
#6 offense in the league - that's hard to swallow, considering how great we were the last few years. Statistically speaking, we have two of the top wr's in football, one of the top Qbs and a RB who's averaging 4.7 yards a carry (or so). We also have an extremely young and talented O-line that is going to be dominant in the next few years. Some Bills fans get spoiled very quickly, I guess. We should be more concerned in resigning Price and upgrading our D (with the $16 million we're going to be under the cap next year) than starting a Gilbride witchhunt.
lunatic_bills_fan
11-22-2002, 11:36 AM
Fumbles are a coaches FAULT!!!!!!!
:stupid:
4thAndLong
11-22-2002, 11:49 AM
I said fumbles are ALSO a coaches fault.
Huge difference, LBF.
4thAndLong
11-22-2002, 11:50 AM
Oh, and Ct Bills fan, Henry is averaging 4.7 YPC is EXACTLY my point.
We dont use him enough, we're a pass happy team, we need get TH involved more.
Akhippo
11-22-2002, 12:23 PM
Come back off the cliff people. You all are pushing this so far to one side that youll fall off. I can almost guarantee that if they had ran three times and where stuffed, all the same naysayers would be complaining, saying that they have this yadda yadda passing attack. Two of the best receivers in the league. Best catching fullback in the league. Why didnt they pass it. I could also state that Henry has a high APC because of the passing attack. Didnt R Williams have like over 5 YPC with Fiedler. Where did that average get the dolphins with Lucas. A good passing attack leads to a good running attack which leads to a good passing attack. Unless your a team like SD that rams it down no matter what. Henry's the bomb, Bledsoe is to. Tweak the balance of R & P alittle and theyll be fine.
4thAndLong
11-22-2002, 12:37 PM
Akhippo, it's not "tweak" the balance a little bit. All we do is pass.
Look at the Texans game, Henry was getting going early, and doing great, so what do we do? We pass it and blow the first half.
You missed the point completely, we are not running the ball enough, Gilbride has been known to do that everywhere he's been.
2 of the best receivers in the league that have nothing the last couple games, same with that great FB, who is way past his prime. We need to run the ball more in the redzone, and we need to run more period!
lordofgun
11-22-2002, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
BTW, the Jets are going to run on us successfully this Sunday.
No they're not. If we lose, it will be by the pass.
Akhippo
11-22-2002, 12:54 PM
Hey dont get me wrong. I would love to run the ball all game. Im not saying that anybody is wrong. Just a little dramatic. Everybody loved it when they were lighting it up. The passing game is now struggling a little. So everybody seems to be running to the other side of the teeter totter, saying we need to be running more than passing. There is a good thing here. What Im saying is it seems like an easier fix. Its not just about running at this particular time. Its about running when the defense expects pass. Passing when they expect run. And within that outline, coming up with plays for the moment. If we are going to pass on 3rd and 5. Say to yourself, what is our play in that situation and is the defense expecting it.
4thAndLong
11-22-2002, 01:01 PM
If it's such an easy fix how come we're not doing it?
Passing game is struggling due to poor play calling. Your changing the point.
Kevin Gilbride is abandoning the run when it works. Look at the NE game and HOU game.
Akhippo
11-22-2002, 01:15 PM
First of all, Im not going to argue over whether they should do this or that because Im not coaching during the game. Im not there during the week. I can guarantee they have a better understanding of the team as a whole, than I do. Second. most of the people here are right. Its the degree that its being pushed. Also im not miss cleo, so I dont know why its still going on. Just think, if it wasnt, we wouldnt have anything to discuss.
colin
11-22-2002, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Akhippo
First of all, Im not going to argue over whether they should do this or that because Im not coaching during the game. Im not there during the week. I can guarantee they have a better understanding of the team as a whole, than I do. Second. most of the people here are right. Its the degree that its being pushed. Also im not miss cleo, so I dont know why its still going on. Just think, if it wasnt, we wouldnt have anything to discuss.
I disagree.
I think you are Miss Cleo.
TacklingDummy
11-22-2002, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by 4thAndLong
Kevin Gilbride is abandoning the run when it works. Look at the NE game and HOU game.
Houston Game: Travis fumbles for the 5th time allowing the Texans to get back in the game and take the lead.
NE Game: When a team loses by 31 your gonna have more pass attempts then run attempts. You have to try and get back in the game fast and running won't do that.
Lions Game: Henry fumbles when we are trying to run out the clock. Detroit almost ties the game up to send it into overtime.
Bears Game: Henry's fumble leads directly to 7 points for the Bears. Bills sqeak out a 5 point win.
Denver Game: ANother game in which Henrys fumble leads directly to 7 points for Denver. Bills lose by 5. If Henry didn't fumble this game could have been a win.
Jet Game: The Bills 1st drive in the 3rd Qtr. was moving along until Henry Fumbled on the 50 yard line. Bills lose this game in overtime. Would probably never went to overtime if Henry didn't give the Jets life.
KG does not have a problem using Henry. Henry has the problem of fumbling at the wrong time in the game.
4thAndLong
11-22-2002, 03:10 PM
Houston game, Gilbride abandons run early in game when its working, and Henry fumbles later in game. No reason to ditch run there.
NE game, could've run early, and it was working, put Mr. Gilbride chose to pass.
Bears game, Henry comes out after the fumble and plays a great game, Shawn Bryson, his back-up fumbles too.
Jets game, Henry runs for 149 yards including 3 or 4 TDs (I forgot)
Henry has fumbled, but fumbling is also the coach's fault. Read my above post.
DIHARD2
11-22-2002, 10:25 PM
northernbillfan, I'm not saying Bledsoe was at fault, I'm saying he is part of the equation. There's too much belief that the coach is totally running the offense during the game. The fact is a good quarterback just like Kelly usually makes the final decision on what play is ran at any given time.
So the only thing you can blame the coach for is the original game plan, and if that plan is being utilized only. In this case with Bledsoe's experience I would have to say that he runs more of the offense then what anyone wants to believe. Again IMO Bledsoe is only part of the equation for our loss and the overuse of the passing game.
GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...
LuvDaBills11
11-22-2002, 10:35 PM
we need to run the ball at the right times and pass at the right times not just pass all the time. inside the 5 and 3 pass attempts or three run attempts is just stupid. how about one run and two passes or two runs and one pass?
mixing it up keeps the defense guessing and we didnt do that
Ingtar33
11-22-2002, 11:00 PM
*sigh*... you guys are missing the point... drink more, relax, and enjoy what we have, its not often that you can even consider that your team might have superbowl talent. I for one am enjoying the ride, and will reserve judgment of Gilbride until after the season.
Originally posted by Akhippo
Come back off the cliff people. You all are pushing this so far to one side that youll fall off. I can almost guarantee that if they had ran three times and where stuffed, all the same naysayers would be complaining, saying that they have this yadda yadda passing attack. Two of the best receivers in the league. Best catching fullback in the league. Why didnt they pass it. I could also state that Henry has a high APC because of the passing attack. Didnt R Williams have like over 5 YPC with Fiedler. Where did that average get the dolphins with Lucas. A good passing attack leads to a good running attack which leads to a good passing attack. Unless your a team like SD that rams it down no matter what. Henry's the bomb, Bledsoe is to. Tweak the balance of R & P alittle and theyll be fine.
I'm sure there would have been criticism over it. But if we had tried Henry, at least we would have tried what was working and not what aspect of our game was struggling. Same w/ N.E. If we had run Henry, then at least we would have attacked the Pats on the merits of exactly why they had lost 4 straight and not played right into their defensive strength.
Which also brings me to my point; we say "they didn't use Henry b/c he fumbles, yadda, yadda..." Well, if that's the case, then let's trade him. B/c he doesn't serve this team to well as merely a statistical dinner conversation piece. "Henry's the man b/c he's amassed X-number of yards..., blah, blah, blah..."
He's either useful and can be relied upon or he isn't. If he is, then we need to use him like RBs in the NFL are meant to be used. If not, then we need to trade him or figure something else out for him/us. That's been one of my points all along that I've been getting hammered for. I hear how marvelous he is out of one side of someone's mouth, and how he can't be trusted out of the other side. They're conflicting statements usually coming from the exact same sources.
Henry's fumbling problems still remain high-profile, but he's sure gone a long way to improving himself after the first bunch of games. I say it's time to trust him implicitly again. If not, then let's start figuring out a solution.
Akhippo
11-23-2002, 03:54 PM
Like they say, "winning covers up alot of stuff". People had skepticism that the Raiders pass alot, but not criticism. Until they started losing. Then it was, they pass to much. run the ball. Or the situation in KC. If the Bills would have stuffed their running plays on the last drive, and scored. Their fans would have been upset, saying that their running game was stuffed all day long, it wasnt working, They should of passed. But they went with their star, did what they do best, and it worked. I still think Buffalo should have thrown in some more runs. But arguments are all relative.
I suppose. But I still say that unless you give your best, you didn't do all you could. Play calling is a part of that. I don't think our play calling has been anything more than below average all season generally speaking.
That's just it. The offense is good. The play calling stinks.
Only b/c it's made us almost entirely transparent and predictable.
4thAndLong
11-24-2002, 01:40 PM
See? Gilbride sucks.
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