The Defense: Do we need more talented starters or more depth

[The Natrix]

Going into the season I was of the impression that we were going to have a much better defense than most thought.

Big Pat is often dominant. I really liked what I saw from AS las year, I thought CA was an upgrade and Edwards would be improved.

I also thought that our LBing was going to be a top five unit, with the addition of Fletcher. I thought Newan was very solid and underrated last year. Although I thought Eddie Robinson would be the weakest, I still thought that he would be good.

Clements and Winfield are a top five tandem. Wire and PP are both excellent tacklers but neither could cover my grandma, so one of them needs to be replaced by a better cover guy.

Needless to say I have been dissapointed with our starters.

So what about the backups? In my opinion they are horrible (compared to other teams backups). I have NEVER seen anyone other than a starter make a play with the exception of Watson, although he doesn't count because he has also made some terrible plays. It seems like every other NFL game I watch, every team has at least a couple backups make a play or two.

In the cheifs game, we stufffed-up Holmes in the first 3 quarters. In the 4th we got eaten alive. I don't think it had anything to do with a change of scheme. It just looked like the D was getting manhandled. They also looked very tired.

Maybe if we had a few backups who were at least, serviceable, we could have rotated them in, every few plays and stopped them in the 4th quarter.

So this begs the question: How important is depth in comparrison to having solid starters?

I think depth is much more important than people think.

I really think the Bills have more talent on the starting D unit than they are given credit for. But they suffer from terrible backups...........

and bad coaching, but that is a whole other thread :rolleyes:

[4thAndLong]

We need a real defense.

[WCoastFin]

Originally posted by 4thAndLong
We need a real defense.

Like Miami's? that would be scary!

[4thAndLong]

An average D would be nice.

[TacklingDummy]

With the talent we have on defense there is no way they should be playing this poorly all year.

[Novacane]

First things first is we need to get rid of Jerry Gray. He is a nimrod!
Then we need a DE. AS will be a good 2nd DE but he is not good enough to be a star. He is a Phil Hansen type.

Need a second DT to complement PW.

Eddie Robinson needs to be replaced. Takeo Spikes would be nice!

Nate Clements needs to pull his head out of his butt, quit listening to all his hype and start playing like he did at the end of last season!


Do all that and we would have the makings of a really good D.

[MissBuffalo]

We need to scrap this 4-6 system. Then I would stay stick to the talent we have. Until then I'd say we need to pick up some "talented" starters. Now that we have Favors, I say let's go back to the 3-4.
I agree about replacing Robinson......he was a huge dissapointment to me.

[JefftheBillsfan]

Think of it this way, if we sign an impact player or 2, the current starter who may be a marginal starter will now be a backup providing us with better depth. I think we need another impact player personally up front. I think we have a lot of players who are borderline starting, the best way to improve the team is to try to upgrade a spot or 2 and improve your depth simultaneously.

[LuvDaBills11]

we played pretty well in the 34 against the chefs.

several times they went to the 34 but mostly against the pass and i think that worked really well.

we need starting talent at de, dt, olb, and fs but we need a good d coach too. gray isnt making the right calls in the right situation and i think williams must have taken more control this last game because we stopped one of the best os in the game.

marcus jones will be the de talent but edwards is too lazy to be the man at dt. prioleau is not the answer at fs he can't cover and robinson is too slow at olb.

[TigerJ]

Do we need more talented starters or more depth on the defense?

Yes!

[TigerJ]

But seriously now. Our defence has done some good things on occasion this year. They just haven't done enough of it, and they've had let downs in critical circumstances. The definitely need a few more talented starters. However, a wholesale replacement of all defensive personnel is neither possible nor desirable. I thin Jerry Gray should be given some credit for some of the good things the defence has done as well as bashed for the bonehead things that have happened. If the Bills were to go in another direction (scrap the 4-6 concept) and fire Gray, I wouldn't scream, but I don't think it's as obvious an issue as it was a year ago when Mike Shepherd was obviously in over his head. GW obviously decided to install the 4-6 defence before the personnel was in place to do it successfully, and the personnel still is not in place. It's not Gray's fault. I think Gray has been learning on the job, and if we get a few more good players on defence next year Gray might just be ready to mold the defence into the scary force that the Titans defence was a few years back.

[Akhippo]

What the D needs is speed. They need three impact players on D. A LB like J Porter, a speed DE llike J Taylor, and a penetrating DT like G Jackson. At this time you cant really say that FS is a real need. With no pass rush at all its hard to cover everybody. And to say that C Wire needs to be replaced because of his cover skills is funny. Hes a rookie. Give him time to know the game. But a new DC is a must. The NE game showed that.

[LABillsFan]

Let's not forget the Spoon will be back next year, while he is still young he has decent instincts but there has to be more pressure coming from the line and LB's. While Winfield and Clements show signs of brillance they do get beat and Watson has strugged but is improving, whether his improvement is enough remains to be seen . He should change his jersey number next year, his reputation is making refs keep a close eye on him. Remember this was a 3-13 team last year and there has been a lot of changes on defense, Fletcher, Robinson, Anawanaka :), Wire, Jenkins, etc. Next year is the year where Gray should be under the microscope as well as GW. If they can't improve upon this year then there should be a change.

[WG]

I will disagree that Gray is OK. If the D had remained the same or improved ever so slightly, I might be inclined to agree. But our D has gotten worse in terms of allowing points and I don't think that the next bunch of games is gonna improve that.

Much of our problem stems from an inadequate DL. Shore up the DL, and the other positions all benefit. Our cover guys wouldn't have to cover their men for 15 seconds. Our LBs would be freed up to make plays.

Our DL talent, other than PW, is inadequate and GW knows this. All offseason all we heard was how several guys on the DL were ready to step up, in their opinion. Well, that simply hasn't happened as many of us foresaw. So he knows that. CA will be 33 next season is if I'm not mistaken and was not brought in for anything other than a S/T solution.

Robinson just blows and GW/TD made a mistake on him. This act of "bringing in guys (usually from Tenn. or Pitt.) that 'know' the 46 D" has gotten stale and has lost all credibility IMO. Robinson was a mistake and cutting him promptly following this season will at least show the fans that they know that. He's not even worth keeping around as a backup.

On DL, our guys get dominated plain and simple. Sure there's the occasional game against a weak D, ala K.C., in which they play OK. But they can never do it for a full game and usually can hardly do it at all.

Depth is key, but if you don't have solid starters in place, then your depth isn't going to be that good either. We have a whole team full of DL depth inasmuch as many of those guys are worth keeping around as 2nd-stringers. They would perform well as backups IMO. They simply lack the ability to be starters almost across the board. PW is solid. I agree w/ B2R46 that Schobel will be a Hanson type but not stellar. He rarely is doubled and usually can't beat a single.