The Official "I told you so" Thread [Archive] - BillsZone.com

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Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 03:12 PM

To what amounted to a playoff game against a team that played backups and had no reason to play, Drew kept his woeful history alive.

The only winning team we beat on our streak was Seattle and we won IN SPITE OF DREW. He threw 3 INTs that game.

He CANNOT win big games.

He CANNOT beat good teams.

He is a BAD QB. ALL HE CAN DO IS THROW THE DEEP BALL.

He is NOT A LEADER.

He has to be CUT the minute the season is officially over.

And for those who gave me a hard time about my crystal ball:

The point that is lost in all this is that even if we make the playoffs, Drew will choke and just disappoint....again. Mark my words.

BillsFever21

01-02-2005, 03:14 PM

These were the best backups in the league though...

Crisis

01-02-2005, 03:14 PM

He sucks.

Lindell sucks.

Both better be gone this offseason.

paladin warrior

01-02-2005, 03:14 PM

To what amounted to a playoff game against a team that played backups and had no reason to play, Drew kept his woeful history alive.

The only winning team we beat on our streak was Seattle and we won IN SPITE OF DREW. He threw 3 INTs that game.

He CANNOT win big games.

He CANNOT beat good teams.

He is a BAD QB. ALL HE CAN DO IS THROW THE DEEP BALL.

He is NOT A LEADER.

He has to be CUT the minute the season is officially over.

Oh, and for those who gave me a hard time about my crystal ball:yup U bet. He a loudy QB forever

Alluro

01-02-2005, 03:15 PM

I just wish donahoe would get his head out of his rump and see what is so painfully obvious

Iehoshua

01-02-2005, 03:15 PM

To what amounted to a playoff game against a team that played backups and had no reason to play, Drew kept his woeful history alive.

The only winning team we beat on our streak was Seattle and we won IN SPITE OF DREW. He threw 3 INTs that game.

He CANNOT win big games.

He CANNOT beat good teams.

He is a BAD QB. ALL HE CAN DO IS THROW THE DEEP BALL.

He is NOT A LEADER.

He has to be CUT the minute the season is officially over.

Oh, and for those who gave me a hard time about my crystal ball:

:roflmao:

:hail: Mr.C !

Sorry to say, unless Drew would literally murder their family, people will still defend him.

Mr. Miyagi

01-02-2005, 03:15 PM

STFU!!!

Do you feel better about yourself now? You're so damn smart for telling us about this before. Wow maybe you should be a damn coach or GM or something.

You're a real Bills fan. :rolleyes:

Crisis

01-02-2005, 03:17 PM

STFU!!!

Do you feel better about yourself now? You're so damn smart for telling us about this before. Wow maybe you should be a damn coach or GM or something.

You're a real Bills fan. :rolleyes:

I agree. And now its sticky, someone has an ego problem.

Even though Bledsoe does suck, you dont need to rub our faces in it that you were right and we were wrong.

LarryBoy

01-02-2005, 03:18 PM

Iehoshua

01-02-2005, 03:19 PM

unless Drew would literally murder their family, people will still defend him.

:dance2:

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 03:19 PM

Even though Bledsoe does suck, you dont need to rub our faces in it that you were right and we were wrong.
Yes, I do. I was berated ad naseum with posts saying I didn't know what I was talking about.

Apparently, I did.

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 03:19 PM

I agree. And now its sticky, someone has an ego problem.

Even though Bledsoe does suck, you dont need to rub our faces in it that you were right and we were wrong.

Yes he does need to rub it in since so many folks here cannot face reality. It's been one excuse after another for Drew ever since he's been here. Enough is enough!! Drew has to go.

LarryBoy

01-02-2005, 03:20 PM

Yes, I do. I was berated ad naseum with posts saying I didn't know what I was talking about.

Apparently, I did.

Ya......you da man.

Crisis

01-02-2005, 03:21 PM

Yes, I do. I was berated ad naseum with posts saying I didn't know what I was talking about.

Apparently, I did.

Yeah, acting immature and childish to support yourself.

Way to go.

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 03:21 PM

You're a real Bills fan. :rolleyes:
Yes, I am.

That's why I was always screaming about Drew. I want the Bills to win, not play golf in January, which is what I knew would happen as long as Drew is the QB. Hopefully this ends all this DLC crap and we can move forward now.

Dantheman1280

01-02-2005, 03:23 PM

Drew is soo bad!!! and so is Lindell they both should be cut right now!! I almost expected this!

DaBills

01-02-2005, 03:25 PM

It's too easy to jump on this topic. All I know is somewhere wys is laughing his ass off. I'd be :shocked: if he wasn't.

Billz_fan

01-02-2005, 03:25 PM

Drew stunk the place out.

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 03:30 PM

The only relief this loss gives me is that this debate is FINALLY over. Drew sucks, needs to be cut, and JP needs to start so we can move forward. The rest of the team is too talented to let a *** QB drag them down. They need a LEADER with SWAGGER...CONFIDENCE...ACCURACY...QUICKNESS....all things Drew will never have.

Have a good life on your ranch Drew because it's over. I like you as a person but I like the Bills more, and with you as the QB they will never take the next step.

McGaheehee

01-02-2005, 03:31 PM

He sucks.

Lindell sucks.

Both better be gone this offseason.
Amen to that

Mr. Miyagi

01-02-2005, 03:32 PM

Yes, I am.

That's why I was always screaming about Drew. I want the Bills to win, not play golf in January, which is what I knew would happen as long as Drew is the QB. Hopefully this ends all this DLC crap and we can move forward now.
Oh really? Now that we're out of the playoffs you must feel great about yourself BEING RIGHT. Yup that's a real Bills fan. :down:

Akhippo

01-02-2005, 03:33 PM

Whats funny, is Drew wont be cut. So you can keep up your whining and crying for another year. Thats funny.

Discotrish

01-02-2005, 03:34 PM

STFU!!!

Do you feel better about yourself now? You're so damn smart for telling us about this before. Wow maybe you should be a damn coach or GM or something.

You're a real Bills fan. :rolleyes:

Hmm. Pittsburgh didn't need to win this game. They rested many of their starters. We had home field advantage. The Game was ours on a platter. Too bad we choked on it.

It is not a requirement of a true fan to cheer a crappily played game in a critical must win game. It is a requirement of a true fan to feel badly because our team lost. And to hope we will do better next year.

The only thing that makes me feel better is knowing we won't have to watch TWO stomach-churning games in a row, which might have happened if we recovered that onside kick. Because we surely didn't deserve to win that game.

Patti

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 03:36 PM

Whats funny, is Drew wont be cut. So you can keep up your whining and crying for another year. Thats funny.
What I find interesting is that you think losing another year under Drew is funny. :idunno:

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 03:37 PM

Oh really? Now that we're out of the playoffs you must feel great about yourself BEING RIGHT. Yup that's a real Bills fan. :down:
If you are still defending Drew and want him back next year, you are most definitely not a Bills fan. A fan wants his/her team to win, not lose.

Mr. Miyagi

01-02-2005, 03:37 PM

It is a requirement of a true fan to feel badly because our team lost.
Yes, Mr.C sure sounds like he feels bad about the team losing, with his "nah-nah-nah-nah-nah I told you so :nana:"

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 03:39 PM

Yes, Mr.C sure sounds like he feels bad about the team losing, with his "nah-nah-nah-nah-nah I told you so :nana:"

All I see is a frustrated fan that wants his team to improve by getting rid of a player that does not live up to his salary.

Mr. Miyagi

01-02-2005, 03:43 PM

So by rubbing it in the faces of fellow Bills fans he's accomplishing this? :rolleyes:

If I didn't know any better I would've thought it was a Pitts fan coming over here.

Discotrish

01-02-2005, 03:44 PM

All I see is a frustrated fan that wants his team to improve by getting rid of a player that does not live up to his salary.

That's right, if we weren't fans we wouldn't even care. We might even give Drew tenure so he could stay around 'til he gets a gold watch. I think he's a Class Act as a person, but this game proves he can no longer be counted on to win the big games you have to win. It doesn't bother me if Mr. Cynical happened to call this accurately. I too wanted to believe Drew still had the old magic left. Unfortunately the hat is empty and the wand is going to have to go into retirement.

Patti

Discotrish

01-02-2005, 03:47 PM

So by rubbing it in the faces of fellow Bills fans he's accomplishing this? :rolleyes:

If I didn't know any better I would've thought it was a Pitts fan coming over here.

Nothing is being rubbed that wasn't already done more emphatically by a Bills squad that couldn't get the job done against a team that was playing an EXHIBITION GAME. If you're going to use that analogy, then call Drew a Pittsburgh fan, because he was their biggest supporter today, with a little help from some penalty-prone teammates and our kicker.

This is an agonizing loss but it beats dying in a car accident. If you really want to look at your big picture.

Patti

The Predator

01-02-2005, 03:48 PM

Bledsoe Is Our Biggest Weakness!!!

He Can't Beat The Blitz!!!

The Buffalo Bills And The Bills Fans Deserve Better!!!

Drew Bledsoe IS NOT WORTHY To QB The Bills!!!

GO BILLS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>05

imbondz

01-02-2005, 03:49 PM

These were the best backups in the league though...
:rofl: that just made me laugh. thanks, I needed that.

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 03:50 PM

That's right, if we weren't fans we wouldn't even care. We might even give Drew tenure so he could stay around 'til he gets a gold watch. I think he's a Class Act as a person, but this game proves he can no longer be counted on to win the big games you have to win. It doesn't bother me if Mr. Cynical happened to call this accurately. I too wanted to believe Drew still had the old magic left. Unfortunately the hat is empty and the wand is going to have to go into retirement.

Patti
Thanks Patti. Granted I may have jumped the gun in my frustration with the "I told you so" title (tried changing it but too late) but I still wanted to point out that Drew is not nor ever was the answer to getting this team to the next level. His history (something I was berated about) proves he simply can't bring it against good teams in big games.

I'm tired of missing the playoffs 4 years in a row. I want to make at least the AFC Champ game next year or I won't be happy. We have the talent. We got this far IN SPITE OF DREW, so with some luck in JPs development, we may just get there.

Mr. Miyagi

01-02-2005, 03:52 PM

jamze132

01-02-2005, 03:52 PM

There were a lot of Drew supporters in here and I cannot fault you for that. However I have never been one. He is washed up. New England knew that when they screwed Donahoe, the Bills, and the fans. There is no arguement about Drew's character as a person, but as a QB on this Bills team with so mch talent, there is no room. I would rather go 9-7 next year with Losman tha go 10-6 with Drew. He can't play under pressure, he laid an egg. Which, by the way is what he does in every big game he has ever played in. Don't even get me started on Lindel! What a scrub!

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 03:52 PM

So by rubbing it in the faces of fellow Bills fans he's accomplishing this? :rolleyes:

If I didn't know any better I would've thought it was a Pitts fan coming over here.

So, if I don't post flowery posts that you like, I'm rubbing it in your face?

Too many people on this board have made one excuse after another for Drew and those of us who disagreed were called Drew haters and accused of being poor fans. Now redemption in the form of reality has reared it's ugly head and it's time for some folks to take their just dessert.

imbondz

01-02-2005, 03:53 PM

true, I am thankful I didn't die in a car accident today.

Discotrish

01-02-2005, 03:55 PM

God damn it, watching the Rams winning this game in OT, we really should've been in. :mad:

I need someone to blame too......

DREW SUCKS!!! MOULDS SUCKS!!! MCGAHEE SUCKS!!! LINDELL SUCKS!!!! THE JANITOR SUCKS!!!

Thank you. That made me feel better. And you forgot The Referees Suck. But I suppose that's a given.

Patti

ricogarion

01-02-2005, 03:55 PM

Anyone who feels that Bledsoe deserves to continue as the starter here is just delaying the inevitable,he must be replaced for this team to ascend to the next level.Anyone who would argue is either married to Bledsoe or under heavy sedation!

Akhippo

01-02-2005, 03:55 PM

Beat the blitz. You have to give some of the ineptitude to the playcalling. At least some. I cant see the whole field, just seems like all we run are comebacks. No draws or swing passes. And I dont think another year with a winning record would be that bad, I find it funny that you would choose to lose next year under an unproven QB. And I make that assumption based on past results. We had a winning record this year, with Drew at QB, and most QBs do nothing their first years, exceptions being Ben and Brady. Im just see our chances being greater with Drew. If we have a sixty percent chance of winning with QB1 and a 40 percent with QB2. Ill take one.

jamze132

01-02-2005, 03:56 PM

So by rubbing it in the faces of fellow Bills fans he's accomplishing this? :rolleyes:

If I didn't know any better I would've thought it was a Pitts fan coming over here.

He wasn't rubbing anything in anyones face! He was stating the truth. I also predicted Drew would screw it up today. Mr. Cynical is a realist. He sees the Bills for what they are. A very talented and young team in the early stages of greatness. Drew Bledsoe has to go if we are to improve. If you wanna keep supporting Drew, then do it elsewhere. You are probably a Lindel supported too, aren't ya?

Mr. Miyagi

01-02-2005, 03:57 PM

I don't hate Drew. I don't blame him and Lindell solely for this loss.

But I also would like to see Losman starting next season, just for a fresh start's sake.

Mr. Miyagi

01-02-2005, 03:58 PM

He wasn't rubbing anything in anyones face! He was stating the truth. I also predicted Drew would screw it up today. Mr. Cynical is a realist. He sees the Bills for what they are. A very talented and young team in the early stages of greatness. Drew Bledsoe has to go if we are to improve. If you wanna keep supporting Drew, then do it elsewhere. You are probably a Lindel supported too, aren't ya?
Mr. Cynical is a realist? Doesn't that make him Mr. Reality? :scratch:

I thought he was, namely, cynical....

McGaheehee

01-02-2005, 03:59 PM

By the way, the JETS JUST LOST...

ARRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH@!!!!!!!

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 04:01 PM

I don't hate Drew. I don't blame him and Lindell solely for this loss.

If either one of them does what they are supposed to, we win this game.

Mr. Miyagi

01-02-2005, 04:02 PM

If either one of them does what they are supposed to, we win this game.
So Clements was supposed to fumble that ball? The D was supposed to let the 8th string RB get that big gain? I see.

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 04:04 PM

So Clements was supposed to fumble that ball? The D was supposed to let the 8th string RB get that big gain? I see.

The so called "8th string RB" doesn't have that run if Lindell makes the kick, does he? :crazy:

Mr. Miyagi

01-02-2005, 04:07 PM

The so called "8th string RB" doesn't have that run if Lindell makes the kick, does he? :crazy:
He could've have. Lindell wasn't even in that play when the guy ran. How could you blame him? It was a stretch.

chernobylwraiths

01-02-2005, 04:07 PM

Nothing is being rubbed that wasn't already done more emphatically by a Bills squad that couldn't get the job done against a team that was playing an EXHIBITION GAME. If you're going to use that analogy, then call Drew a Pittsburgh fan, because he was their biggest supporter today, with a little help from some penalty-prone teammates and our kicker.

This is an agonizing loss but it beats dying in a car accident. If you really want to look at your big picture.

Patti

Not rubbing it in? I told you so is the cry that is most used by those rubbing it in.

lordofgun

01-02-2005, 04:08 PM

Hey AWM...I bet you haven't worried about a tsunami once today.

unpaid_bills

01-02-2005, 04:09 PM

:clap:

STFU!!!

Do you feel better about yourself now? You're so damn smart for telling us about this before. Wow maybe you should be a damn coach or GM or something.

You're a real Bills fan. :rolleyes:

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 04:09 PM

He could've have. Lindell wasn't even in that play when the guy ran. How could you blame him? It was a stretch.

OK, I'll explain it for you...

Lindell makes the kick, we don't turn the ball over. Instead we kick off and the run never happens. Pretty simple to me.

chernobylwraiths

01-02-2005, 04:09 PM

I don't hate Drew. I don't blame him and Lindell solely for this loss.

But I also would like to see Losman starting next season, just for a fresh start's sake.

I agree, but I doubt it will happen. I see Drew starting next year and another offseason and at least a season starting off with this kind of crap. I hope for the team and its fans sake they trade him. It gets so old blaming one person for each and every woe the Bills have.

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 04:10 PM

Hey AWM...I bet you haven't worried about a tsunami once today.

Nope. But It's only 1:10 PM so I have lots of time. :ill:

chernobylwraiths

01-02-2005, 04:10 PM

Hey AWM...I bet you haven't worried about a tsunami once today.

:rofl:

He has now.

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 04:11 PM

I agree, but I doubt it will happen. I see Drew starting next year and another offseason and at least a season starting off with this kind of crap. I hope for the team and its fans sake they trade him. It gets so old blaming one person for each and every woe the Bills have.

Then why did we even draft Losman? No way Ralph is going to pay for 2 years of clip board holding.

He is the starter next year unless he suffers an injury in training camp.

Akhippo

01-02-2005, 04:15 PM

[QUOTE]OK, I'll explain it for you...

Lindell makes the kick, we don't turn the ball over. Instead we kick off and the run never happens. Pretty simple to me.

Your right, That run never happens. But can you say any long run wouldnt have occured past that point. I think not. But I must agree that the miss let the wind out of the Ds sailes.
But i query. How did lindell get put in the position for a "gimme" field goal?
If anyone should have the heap of blame tossed on his back its Lindell. Driving for more points, turnover, long run, field goal, sack for a touchdown. That was momentum right there.

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 04:16 PM

Then why did we even draft Losman? No way Ralph is going to pay for 2 years of clip board holding.

He is the starter next year unless he suffers an injury in training camp.
This would be the logical way to look at it. But as we all know logic doesn't always win out at One Bills Drive.

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 04:17 PM

Mr. Cynical is a realist? Doesn't that make him Mr. Reality? :scratch:

I thought he was, namely, cynical....
Mr. Reality is taken....

FTG

01-02-2005, 04:18 PM

The only relief this loss gives me is that this debate is FINALLY over. .

No it's not. The lovers will never stop. Even after he's gone they will make excuses for why he was a failure

Discotrish

01-02-2005, 04:18 PM

[QUOTE]
But i query. How did lindell get put in the position for a "gimme" field goal?
If anyone should have the heap of blame tossed on his back its Lindell. Driving for more points, turnover, long run, field goal, sack for a touchdown. That was momentum right there.

Because the drive stalled. Also if we had more confidence in our offense we might have gone for it on fourth and one. At that point we decided to play not to lose, and it backfired.

Patti

Tatonka

01-02-2005, 04:18 PM

So by rubbing it in the faces of fellow Bills fans he's accomplishing this? :rolleyes:

If I didn't know any better I would've thought it was a Pitts fan coming over here.

all i know is that me, mr. c, and ftg have dealt with MORE than our fair share of bull**** from all the fans on this board that did nothing but call us out every time bledsoe had a good game.. and if bledsoe would have not sat on the golden bonner today AGAIN, then all the bledsoe lovers would be doing it again..

if there is a fan that doesnt think bledsoe sucks the big one and is not convinced that he should be gone next year, then it is THEM that are truely not bills fans.. because anyone who roots for bledsoe obviously has no desire to see the bills be successful at all.

and if you think just because someone says i told you so after being berated throughout this entire winning streak is not a bills fans, then i really just dont understand your thinking.

bledsoe cost the entire bills franchise 3 years.. he has been a complete waste of money, coaching, and time... not to mention a complete waste of the fans efforts to cheer their team on. he is a loser and always has been. fans that say otherwise are just ignorant. period.

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 04:19 PM

But I must agree that the miss let the wind out of the Ds sailes.
But i query. How did lindell get put in the position for a "gimme" field goal?
If anyone should have the heap of blame tossed on his back its Lindell. Driving for more points, turnover, long run, field goal, sack for a touchdown. That was momentum right there.

In my book, it's a toss up between Drew and Lindell as to who cost us the game. If either one of them just does his damn job instead of choking, we win the game. :(

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 04:20 PM

Not rubbing it in? I told you so is the cry that is most used by those rubbing it in.I admitted earlier in this thread to Patti that I posted "I told you so" in the heat of the moment. I tried to change it but it was too late.

However, I still stand by my posts from the very beginning, and feel I have the right to stick up for what I've been saying and for which I got tons of heat. If you can dish it (not you personally), you have to be willing to take it back when you are wrong.

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 04:20 PM

all i know is that me, mr. c, and ftg have dealt with MORE than our fair share of bull**** from all the fans on this board that did nothing but call us out every time bledsoe had a good game.. and if bledsoe would have not sat on the golden bonner today AGAIN, then all the bledsoe lovers would be doing it again..

if there is a fan that doesnt think bledsoe sucks the big one and is not convinced that he should be gone next year, then it is THEM that are truely not bills fans.. because anyone who roots for bledsoe obviously has no desire to see the bills be successful at all.

and if you think just because someone says i told you so after being berated throughout this entire winning streak is not a bills fans, then i really just dont understand your thinking.

bledsoe cost the entire bills franchise 3 years.. he has been a complete waste of money, coaching, and time... not to mention a complete waste of the fans efforts to cheer their team on. he is a loser and always has been. fans that say otherwise are just ignorant. period.

:clap:

Akhippo

01-02-2005, 04:21 PM

And if the D held them to less points we would have won.

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 04:22 PM

Discotrish

01-02-2005, 04:24 PM

And if the D held them to less points we would have won.

Sure you could've said that about the first four games of the season, when the 'D' DID hold them to few enough points, and we still didn't win. The fact is the offense has to show up. That means more than counting on your defense and special teams to score points for you (which they HAVE all through this amazing winning streak.) It means putting together drives that keep your own defense off the field long enough so they can play effectively when they ARE on the field.

Patti

Tatonka

01-02-2005, 04:25 PM

the best part is that the steelers dropped to INTs that hit them directly in the chest.

bledsoes big game legacy lives on.. should have had 3 ints and a fumble for td today. NO TDs and the worst percentage on 3rd downs by any team in the nfl today. and i only counted 3 dropped passes today.

his fumble was returned for a td.. the defense only gave up 22 points.. and one of those drives started at the 20 due to a fumble by clements..

now at least clements made up for his fumble by taking one to the house.

the bledsoe lead offense scored 17 points against 2nd and 3rd stringers...

lovers can try to point the finger and all the other people they want.. that is the typical response by the ridiculous amount of fans that still believe in a washed up, never has been.. but the reality is that the bills will be watching for the rest of the playoffs because bledsoe is a sack of ****.. a worthless sack of ****.. i would kick him in the nuts right now if i could..

chernobylwraiths

01-02-2005, 04:25 PM

Then why did we even draft Losman? No way Ralph is going to pay for 2 years of clip board holding.

He is the starter next year unless he suffers an injury in training camp.

MANY QBs are drafted, even in the first round and don't get in for a few years.

I'm not even saying that I WANT Bledsoe to be our starter here, I am just saying that he won't be cut and if he is still on the roster next year that I think Drew will be the starter on opening day.

Akhippo

01-02-2005, 04:26 PM

And boo hoo to all the DB bashers, as I guess thats your official name. Id give you a tissue if i cared. You should be used to being looked down upon by now. But ill leave your personal life out of this. It just seems that your picked on because we won more than lost. But you shed no tears when yall berated the as called DB lovers during the losing streak. But I guess you only speak the truth huh? It didnt take but one game though to come back into form.

chernobylwraiths

01-02-2005, 04:29 PM

I admitted earlier in this thread to Patti that I posted "I told you so" in the heat of the moment. I tried to change it but it was too late.

However, I still stand by my posts from the very beginning, and feel I have the right to stick up for what I've been saying and for which I got tons of heat. If you can dish it (not you personally), you have to be willing to take it back when you are wrong.

Two questions.

Did you think this team under Bledsoe could be 9-7?

Did you think that after an 0-4 start that this team under Bledsoe could be 0-7?

I bet both answers are no. I also KNOW that you will say that Bledsoe had little to do with those six wins in a row.

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 04:30 PM

MANY QBs are drafted, even in the first round and don't get in for a few years.

I'm not even saying that I WANT Bledsoe to be our starter here, I am just saying that he won't be cut and if he is still on the roster next year that I think Drew will be the starter on opening day.

Culpepper, McNabb, both Mannings, Brees, etc all played in their first or second year in the league.

You don't waste 1st round picks to have the player start in his 3rd year.

Akhippo

01-02-2005, 04:30 PM

Sure you could've said that about the first four games of the season, when the 'D' DID hold them to few enough points, and we still didn't win. The fact is the offense has to show up. That means more than counting on your defense and special teams to score points for you (which they HAVE all through this amazing winning streak.) It means putting together drives that keep your own defense off the field long enough so they can play effectively when they ARE on the field.

Patti

shoulda coulda. We would be in the playoffs if the D had stopped a fourth and goal. Can I say that correctly.
And wasnt that a long multi play drive that started on the 1 that led to the miss. But i guess that gets overlooked when your trying to bash people.

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 04:31 PM

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 04:32 PM

Two questions.

Did you think this team under Bledsoe could be 9-7?

Did you think that after an 0-4 start that this team under Bledsoe could be 0-7?

I bet both answers are no. I also KNOW that you will say that Bledsoe had little to do with those six wins in a row.

Bledsoe didn't do anything as our QB this year that Matthews or another backup couldn't have done. Drew was nothing more than a caretaker. I bet Losman could have done as much as Bledsoe (or even more when you consider he is mobile and Drew is anything but).

chernobylwraiths

01-02-2005, 04:33 PM

Culpepper, McNabb, both Mannings, Brees, etc all played in their first or second year in the league.

You don't waste 1st round picks to have the player start in his 3rd year.

You name a few and most of those except Brees and Culpepper were HIGH first round picks, not mid to late first rounders. Culpepper was only thrust into the lineup when I think Cunningham retired. It wasn't like they were expecting him to start, he was just who was left.

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 04:34 PM

Two questions.

Did you think this team under Bledsoe could be 9-7?

Did you think that after an 0-4 start that this team under Bledsoe could be 0-7?

I bet both answers are no. I also KNOW that you will say that Bledsoe had little to do with those six wins in a row.No, and no. What's your point? We didn't win the game we needed to win because the D and ST didn't bail him out like they did against the last winning team we beat, Seattle.

What good is six wins in a row? There's no Honorable Mention prizes in the NFL. Drew choked against a good team in a big game. I've never waivered on that and he proved it again today.

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 04:36 PM

You name a few and most of those except Brees and Culpepper were HIGH first round picks, not mid to late first rounders. Culpepper was only thrust into the lineup when I think Cunningham retired. It wasn't like they were expecting him to start, he was just who was left.

First round pick is a first round pick. It doesn't matter when they were drafted in the round. They are expected to contribute to a team IMMEDIATELY, not 3 years down the road.

People went ballastic over drafting MaGahee because he couldn't play last season yet you are willing to give Losman a free pass until his third season? WTF???!!!

Tatonka

01-02-2005, 04:37 PM

In my book, it's a toss up between Drew and Lindell as to who cost us the game. If either one of them just does his damn job instead of choking, we win the game. :(

we didnt lose by 3, so i dont really blame lindell. should he have made the kick? absolutely.. is he a good kicker? not really.. but we lost because of an effort that occurred throught the game.. bledsoe took sacks and couldnt complete crap all day.. he fumbled.. he threw a pick.. he tried to throw 2 more that werent caught for picks.. he just played so poorly that he cost us the game.. period.

Iehoshua

01-02-2005, 04:38 PM

FTG

01-02-2005, 04:39 PM

Tatonka

01-02-2005, 04:39 PM

Akhippo

01-02-2005, 04:40 PM

"It didnt take but one game though to come back into form."

Apparently you either have me on ignore or never come to this site. I never left that form. Ever.

Im here often and dont have you on ignore. Its just something the body does when it heres continuous senseless complaining. You just tune it out until the broken record and self promotion end. When quotes start with I told you this, I knew this. :loser:

FTG

01-02-2005, 04:40 PM

:wave:
Don't forget moi!

:rofl: How dare he forget you!

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 04:40 PM

we didnt lose by 3, so i dont really blame lindell. should he have made the kick? absolutely.. is he a good kicker? not really.. but we lost because of an effort that occurred throught the game.. bledsoe took sacks and couldnt complete crap all day.. he fumbled.. he threw a pick.. he tried to throw 2 more that werent caught for picks.. he just played so poorly that he cost us the game.. period.

I'm not even going to argue the point about Drew because it is all true, but Lindell's missed kick cost us a total of 6 points. We lost by 5......

Akhippo

01-02-2005, 04:41 PM

negged..

what a terrible post.. crawl back under your rock.

Sharp as a tack in your comeback I see. Keep up the good work. :funny:

Tatonka

01-02-2005, 04:41 PM

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 04:41 PM

Im here often and dont have you on ignore. Its just something the body does when it heres continuous senseless complaining. You just tune it out until the broken record and self promotion end. When quotes start with I told you this, I knew this. :loser:
So another words you were WRONG about me "coming back into form when Drew has a bad game".

Thanks for acknowledging that FACT. :up:

chernobylwraiths

01-02-2005, 04:42 PM

Bledsoe didn't do anything as our QB this year that Matthews or another backup couldn't have done. Drew was nothing more than a caretaker. I bet Losman could have done as much as Bledsoe (or even more when you consider he is mobile and Drew is anything but).

A couple of those wins were in high wind games that the other QB could do NOTHING. The Miami away game was helped by a good Bledsoe game. I doubt that Matthews could have done anything in those games. And our record with Matthews would NOT have been 9-7 IMO.

Akhippo

01-02-2005, 04:42 PM

Is that all I have to say to get you to leave. Terrible post go away. Ill try that next time.

Tatonka

01-02-2005, 04:42 PM

Sharp as a tack in your comeback I see. Keep up the good work. :funny:

i guess you have a negative user rating because your a great poster with such a good perception of the bills.. you keep up the good work too! :up:

lordofgun

01-02-2005, 04:43 PM

Calm down fells...no need for personal attacks.

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 04:43 PM

A couple of those wins were in high wind games that the other QB could do NOTHING. The Miami away game was helped by a good Bledsoe game. I doubt that Matthews could have done anything in those games. And our record with Matthews would NOT have been 9-7 IMO.

Keep fooling yourself. I don't care. The end results of Drew and his play are obvious today.

Tatonka

01-02-2005, 04:44 PM

:wave:
Don't forget moi!

sorry bud.. you saw the light a long time ago as well.

chernobylwraiths

01-02-2005, 04:45 PM

i guess you have a negative user rating because your a great poster with such a good perception of the bills.. you keep up the good work too! :up:

Just remedied that. :snicker:

Iehoshua

01-02-2005, 04:46 PM

:rofl: How dare he forget you!
I know! Do we forget who it was who named the group "DLC"?

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?p=751997&postcount=9

chernobylwraiths

01-02-2005, 04:46 PM

Keep fooling yourself. I don't care. The end results of Drew and his play are obvious today.

It's pretty easy to say we would have been 16-0 with Matthews without any proof. I mean he did throw that one pretty pass against the 49ers.

DaBills

01-02-2005, 04:47 PM

Calm down fells...no need for personal attacks.

Oh yeah? It's your fault we lost, Mr. evil avatar mod person!

;-p

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 04:49 PM

It's pretty easy to say we would have been 16-0 with Matthews without any proof. I mean he did throw that one pretty pass against the 49ers.It's also pretty easy to say that Drew chokes in big games against good teams. The proof is there in spades.

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 04:50 PM

It's pretty easy to say we would have been 16-0 with Matthews without any proof. I mean he did throw that one pretty pass against the 49ers.

I don't think anybody ever claimed we would be 16-0 with Matthews. What many of us have been saying all season is that we were winning IN SPITE OF Drew. Drews numbers and performance speaks for itself. He is NOT a QB that will lead a team to victory. He is/was a QB that was required to make as few mistakes as possible to give the rest of the team a chance to make plays. That is exactly what any other team asks of a backup QB when he comes in to replace the injured starter.

Tatonka

01-02-2005, 04:50 PM

Just remedied that. :snicker:

like bledsoe, you can keep fooling yourself.

:D

DaBills

01-02-2005, 04:54 PM

I could live with Lindell's miss if we're scoring TD's. We're putting so much stock on those 3-points after all. What kills me though is Drew giving up 6 with that fumble and the many 3-and-outs. Score on two of those earlier drives, it's 14 point swing and we're not even mentioning Lindell's name. 1 step foward, 2 steps back.

You can't play catch-up doing that ****.

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 04:54 PM

Really hurts given the Jets lost too. **** unreal. Granted the team as whole did not bring their A game, but it's not a coincidence that that always happens with Drew at the helm against a good team in a big game.

mybills

01-02-2005, 06:17 PM

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 06:18 PM

:roflmao:

Somebody is cranky today!! :snicker:

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 06:24 PM

That replay of Drew getting hit, losing the ball and the LB running it in for the TD is the period on the end of the sentence, "Drew is done." An 11 year vet needs to feel that rush coming and either move, tuck it or chuck it.

Even though I expected him to fail, I still get pissed every time I see that play. :madcurse:

Bill Brasky

01-02-2005, 06:26 PM

To what amounted to a playoff game against a team that played backups and had no reason to play, Drew kept his woeful history alive.

The only winning team we beat on our streak was Seattle and we won IN SPITE OF DREW. He threw 3 INTs that game.

He CANNOT win big games.

He CANNOT beat good teams.

He is a BAD QB. ALL HE CAN DO IS THROW THE DEEP BALL.

He is NOT A LEADER.

He has to be CUT the minute the season is officially over.

And for those who gave me a hard time about my crystal ball:

You really need to give this **** a rest dude. We could be 16-0 and you'd find a million things wrong.

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 06:27 PM

You really need to give this **** a rest dude. We could be 16-0 and you'd find a million things wrong.

Oh please. You can't seriously still be trying to defend Drew after this game?

This was the only game all freaking year that we needed him to step up and play a solid game and he failed miserably!!

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 06:30 PM

You really need to give this **** a rest dude. We could be 16-0 and you'd find a million things wrong.
No, not a million things. Just one. :up:

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 06:31 PM

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by FTG

I walk into the kitchen and my MIL is sitting there on the pot with the friggen door hanging wide open

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>OMFG....

:roflmao:
:roflmao:
:roflmao:
:roflmao:
:roflmao:
:roflmao:
:roflmao:

Quite possibly the funniest thing I've read all year. I kid you not, I've been literally laughing out loud for 5 mins.

Bill Brasky

01-02-2005, 06:35 PM

Oh please. You can't seriously still be trying to defend Drew after this game?

This was the only game all freaking year that we needed him to step up and play a solid game and he failed miserably!!

I'm not defending him at all, he played like steaming dog **** on a summer day, but so did the rest of the team. I'm just a pissed off fan right now.

Bill Brasky

01-02-2005, 06:36 PM

ArcticWildMan

01-02-2005, 06:39 PM

I'm not defending him at all, he played like steaming dog **** on a summer day, but so did the rest of the team. I'm just a pissed off fan right now.

And the rest of the team has carried him all season. This game the rest of the team was flat and all he had to do was play solid football and we win. One freaking game out of the entire year where we needed him to really step it up and he failed miserably.

Lindell is to blame as well but we all knew sucked and his miss shouldn't surprise anybody around here. That missed FG could have easily been overcome if Drew just does the basics correctly. Instead, Drew goes into "stupid" mode and does his damndest to give the game away.

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 07:00 PM

ScottLawrence

01-02-2005, 07:21 PM

What if hes back next year?????????????????

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

chernobylwraiths

01-02-2005, 07:42 PM

I can't believe there are still people who defend him. :huh: In that case, let's bring back RJ. Still a young guy, only had 3 years here...records are similar...let's give the guy a another chance. It's a team game. He doesn't suck.

Are you saying that there has never been a QB who was run off of a team and went on to win a championship with another team?

mybills

01-02-2005, 07:47 PM

What if hes back next year?????????????????

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

BITE YOUR ***** TONGUE!

:chuckle:

FTG

01-02-2005, 07:54 PM

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 08:07 PM

Hey scott - I appreciate and agree with your AHHHH, but can ya cut some off so the thread isn't all screwed up? :D

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 08:08 PM

Are you saying that there has never been a QB who was run off of a team and went on to win a championship with another team?
Are you saying you still believe Drew can lead the Bills to a championship?

LifetimeBillsFan

01-02-2005, 08:17 PM

I am neither a Drew Bledsoe lover nor a Drew Bledsoe hater. I am a Bills fan who has supported the team when Jim Kelly, Darryl Lamonica, Jack Kemp and Joe Ferguson were the starting QB and when Al Dorrow, Dan Darraugh, Joe Dufek, and even Marlin Briscoe started at QB. I loved seeing the Bills win the AFL Championship and go to the Super Bowl, but I do not--as some apparently do--expect them to do that every season. For some of the Bills teams that I have rooted for winning just 4 games was quite an accomplishment, for others winning 9 games could be a bad season. I don't believe that being a Bills fan is defined by whether you think the starting QB is great or whether you think he stinks (I, for one, thought the Bills traded the wrong QB when they traded Darryl Lamonica--little did I know that Ralph Wilson owned a piece of the Raiders at the time!).

I thought that the deal for Drew Bledsoe was a good deal when the Bills made it--because I thought that Bledsoe was the best QB available at the time. And, considering the talent around him his first season, he did a pretty good job. And, he cost pretty much what you would expect any QB capable of stepping in and playing without falling all over himself would cost. And, his presence may well have helped the team recruit some of the veteran talent on the defensive side of the ball that has become the backbone of the team.

But, in many ways, Drew Bledsoe never was more than a "caretaker" QB: an aging veteran brought in to add a little presence to a very young team who might still have enough magic left in his arm to keep things respectable while the youngsters made the inevitable mistakes and, hopefully, be able to teach them how to be winners as the team rebuilt. Well, last year's disaster proved that, however attractive a person Bledsoe might be, there wasn't much magic left in his arm and that the Patriots were right in their assessment that not only was Drew not capable of taking them to the next level, he was on the verge of regressing as a player and, ultimately, as a leader.

Still, with no one ready to step in and take his place, the Bills were stuck with Bledsoe at least at the beginning of this season. And, with JP Losman going down with a broken leg and not being able to get much work in practice, the Bills had little choice but to go with Bledsoe and see if he could make up for what he had lost as a player with his leadership and experience now that he had a much better supporting cast around him and better coaches working with him.

At halftime of the game against the Ravens I began to write a post that I posted on this messageboard and on the ESPN Bills board calling for the team to bench Bledsoe in favor of Shane Mathews and, when he was healthy, JP Losman. I did this not because I was a Bledsoe hater or a Drew lover, but because, in my opinion, the leadership and experience that he was supposed to be providing from the QB position was simply not sufficient to compensate for the poor play and decision-making that had come to characterize Bledsoe's game at QB.

With the emergence of Willis McGahee and the success of the Bills defense and special teams, Drew Bledsoe was, for the most part, placed in the role of a true "caretaker QB" where he really wasn't going to be called upon to win games, just not to lose them--a role that he performed pretty well in during the Bills winning streak. However, as the second Patriots game proved, he, nevertheless, also proved that he was incapable of winning a game against for the team when that task was placed upon his shoulders by the defense.

While it was great to see the Bills team show the heart and determination that it took to sustain their winning streak and I thoroughly enjoyed seeing them win all of those games--games that they very well may not have won had Mathews and/or Losman taken over at QB (see what happened to the NY Giants after Eli Manning was handed the starting QB job and how a lot of their vets quit on him!)--it is quite simply a fact that, in order for a team to be successful over the course of a season, at some point a team's QB is going to have to take the game on his shoulders and win it for his team. This is not something that just the "elite" QBs are expected to do, it is something that every decent QB in the NFL playing for a good team gets called on to do (J.Delhomme, A.Brooks, J.Plummer, T.Green, even K.Boller have done it this season). And, at some point, sooner or later, Drew Bledsoe was bound to be called on to win just such a game.

That game came today against Pittsburgh. The special teams did not play as well as they have in recent weeks early in the game, putting pressure on the defense early, and Pittsburgh, like New England, shut down the running game, putting the onus of keeping the Bills in the game on Bledsoe's shoulders. And, how did the team's offensive leader respond? By going one of seven and throwing a pick that put the Bills defense back on the field before they could catch their breath, costing the team a TD. This is leadership? This is experience? Is this even the work of a competent "caretaker QB" who won't make a lot of big plays, but also knows that he can't afford to make any big mistakes? No, it isn't!

Now, there are more than a few who will try to defend Bledsoe by pointing out that the rest of the team did not play particularly well against Pittsburgh, either. But, as my parents used to repeatedly tell me, "two wrongs don't make a right"---and pointing out that others didn't do their jobs as well as they could have or should have in this game does not excuse Drew Bledsoe from the fact that he did not get his job done. Yes, you can say that no one picked up the blitzer that caused the fumble that was returned for the decisive TD or that the defense let a rookie 4th sting RB gain over 100 yards on them, but that does not excuse Bledsoe from failing to recognize the blitz or protect the ball from a pass rusher coming at him from his front side, or from missing passes that resulted in 3 and outs that left the defense tired and worn out in the 4th quarter. No matter how badly others on the Bills played, the fact remains that not only did Drew Bledsoe fail to put the team on his shoulders and lead them to victory on a day when the rest of the team needed to have him do that, but he failed to do his job with its already circumscribed responsibilities. And, consequently, he not only failed to lead the Bills into the playoffs on a day when that was very possible, but he also demonstrated that he no longer has the capabilities--as a player or as a leader to take this team to the level which it is capable of going to.

This Bills team had the ability to make the playoffs this season and should have done so. I predicted in a post before the season that they would finish 9-7 or 10-6 based on their talent and schedule and revised that to 10-6 or 11-5 when Miami imploded in preseason. With average QB play in all of its games this team would have hit those targets and made the playoffs. One of the reasons--although not the only one--that they did not is the poor play that they got from the QB position in the person of Drew Bledsoe. While there are other reasons, including barely adequate play from the offensive line, the poor play of Bledsoe is a critical factor because as a veteran QB he is expected to provide leadership and experience to an offensive team that is still very young at most positions and to the team as a whole. By failing to do so and by continuing to make the same stupid mistakes over and over, Bledsoe is no longer capable of overcoming the short-comings of his play and has become a liability for the team. And, for that reason, he should be replaced as the starter next season.

Unfortunately for those of us who would like to see Bledsoe replaced at QB, however, I believe that Chernobylwraiths is correct in saying that Drew Bledsoe is probably going to be the Bills starting QB at the beginning of next season. I'm not saying that he SHOULD be, but that he most likely WILL be.

Why? Because unless JP Losman can convince the coaching staff in the off-season and pre-season that he will give the Bills a SIGNIFICANTLY better chance of winning next season than Bledsoe will, I doubt that they will have the guts to sit Bledsoe down in favor of a basically untested kid who hasn't shown anyone on the team that he can lead them to success. Now, I'm not saying that JP Losman can't lead the team to greater success than Bledsoe or that he won't--in fact, I think he can and will--but that he will have to convince the coaches, coaches who are already prejudiced in favor of Bledsoe based on his reputation, likeability and hard-headedness in the face of adversity this season, that he can do a better job than Bledsoe. And, that's going to be hard for Losman to do--especially since the coaches will have the built-in excuse for sticking with Bledsoe of Losman's injury costing him practice time this season, etc.

With all of the veterans on the team who are looking to win immediately, I think that the Bills coaches will be very hesitant to turn the starting QB job over to JP Losman next season after seeing how the NY Giants vets quit on Eli Manning this season and how Carson Palmer struggled in Cincy after having the starting job handed to him by M.Lewis at the beginning of this season. While I believe that, if JP Losman works hard in the offseason, Losman will give the Bills their best chance of making the playoffs and being successful next season, I also think that, unless JP blows the coaches away with his ability to play significantly better than Bledsoe, the coaches will take the easy way out and conclude that it will be safer to go with Bledsoe rather than Losman. I simply don't think that T.Donahoe and M.Mullarkey have the guts to do what M.Lewis did in Cincy this year and deal with the controversy that would inevitably arise from making such a decision--I think it will be easier and safer for them to simply say, as they have throughout this season, that "Drew Bledsoe gives us our best chance to win", whether they believe that or not and whether it is true or not.

And, as for paying Losman a lot of money to carry a clipboard, well, either way the Bills will be paying a lot for a clipboard carrier--be it Losman or Bledsoe. Having renegotiated his contract and had a little taste of winning this season, it is very unlikely that Drew Bledsoe will quietly slink off into the night after stinking up The Ralph this afternoon. He will want to come back for the money and to try to prove his critics wrong. And, only an injury, more guts than I think the coaches have, or JP Losman significantly out-playing him in the off-season and pre-season will put Drew Bledsoe on the bench at the beginning of next season--especially if he decides that he wants to stick around for the third year of his re-negotiated contract.

As much as I think that the Bills would be better off next season and in the long run with JP Losman as their starting QB next season, unfortunately, I think that it is very likely that Drew Bledsoe will start next season as the Bills starting QB once again in spite of the fact that he has become a liability for the offense.

chernobylwraiths

01-02-2005, 08:21 PM

Are you saying you still believe Drew can lead the Bills to a championship?

I guess I'm saying that I think Drew is capable of winning a championship.

Yes, I believe he could.

FTG

01-02-2005, 08:22 PM

holy cow lifetime..............that was one long post

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 08:23 PM

holy cow lifetime..............that was one long post
Would take a lifetime to read it. :snicker:

LifetimeBillsFan

01-02-2005, 08:25 PM

Sorry, but sometimes it takes a little time to make a logical statement in response to an issue. I prefer doing that than simply insulting people or shouting at others.

FTG

01-02-2005, 08:26 PM

I guess I'm saying that I think Drew is capable of winning a championship.

Yes, I believe he could.

I have some beautiful swampland for sale. Care to make an offer :snicker:

LifetimeBillsFan

01-02-2005, 08:27 PM

Would take a lifetime to read it. :snicker:
Alright, alright! I get the point! Although, I hope you will take the time to read it Mr.C, because I was inspired to write it by your interchange with Chernobylwraiths.

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 08:28 PM

I guess I'm saying that I think Drew is capable of winning a championship.

Yes, I believe he could.
What logical reasons do you have for this belief? Not trying to slam you, I'm just trying to understand. You aren't the only one who still has this "faith", but it is just so mind boggling how anyone could still think he can do it.

FTG

01-02-2005, 08:32 PM

What logical reasons do you have for this belief? Not trying to slam you, I'm just trying to understand. You aren't the only one who still has this "faith", but it is just so mind boggling how anyone could still think he can do it.

The definition of insanity..............................To keep doing the same thing and somehow expect to get a differant result :;

chernobylwraiths

01-02-2005, 08:35 PM

holy cow lifetime..............that was one long post

He is notorious for it. But it is a good read. I don't wholly agree with some of it, I can understand where you (and many others) feel this team should go. I also want to really state that I don't disagree with who you all think should start next year, I just think it will still be Drew. I just think that no matter who the QB is, it is rare that a loss is wholly one person's fault as IMO some seem to suggest.

I wish he could have played a little better.

chernobylwraiths

01-02-2005, 08:38 PM

What logical reasons do you have for this belief? Not trying to slam you, I'm just trying to understand. You aren't the only one who still has this "faith", but it is just so mind boggling how anyone could still think he can do it.

I think he CAN do it just by looking at past "washed up" QBs who have taken teams to championships. I think this team with a healthy Willis and another year under McNally will play even better (especially if they go out and get a stud LT). I think the defense is on the verge of being something special. I think it CAN be done.

Do I feel he WILL lead the Bills to a SB victory next year? No.

FTG

01-02-2005, 08:39 PM

He is notorious for it. But it is a good read. I don't wholly agree with some of it, I can understand where you (and many others) feel this team should go. I also want to really state that I don't disagree with who you all think should start next year, I just think it will still be Drew. I just think that no matter who the QB is, it is rare that a loss is wholly one person's fault as IMO some seem to suggest.

I wish he could have played a little better.

Believe me.............I'm disgusted with a lot more players and coachs then just Drew today. I just see him as the weakest link

LifetimeBillsFan

01-02-2005, 08:43 PM

Believe me.............I'm disgusted with a lot more players and coachs then just Drew today. I just see him as the weakest link
I agree with you. And, I also think that most of us are really, really frustrated by how poorly the team played today. I think we all expected a lot more from the whole team.

chernobylwraiths

01-02-2005, 08:43 PM

Believe me.............I'm disgusted with a lot more players and coachs then just Drew today. I just see him as the weakest link

I would really try to trade Drew in the offseason. Maybe Parcells still DOES want him. If nothing else, I think his stock might be a little higher than it was after the NE game.

Dump Lindell.
Still looking for a dominant pass rusher
And if we could get a dominent LT that would help immensely.

chernobylwraiths

01-02-2005, 08:44 PM

I agree with you. And, I also think that most of us are really, really frustrated by how poorly the team played today. I think we all expected a lot more from the whole team.

I think that is something we can ALL agree on.

FTG

01-02-2005, 08:48 PM

I agree with you. And, I also think that most of us are really, really frustrated by how poorly the team played today. I think we all expected a lot more from the whole team.

Damn right we did. I was convinced we would win this game. If I knew Pittsburg was gonna go to thier backups so early I would have even bet on us covering the 9 points. It's gonna take a while to get over this one

LifetimeBillsFan

01-02-2005, 08:51 PM

Damn right we did. I was convinced we would win this game. If I knew Pittsburg was gonna go to thier backups so early I would have even bet on us covering the 9 points. It's gonna take a while to get over this one
Me, too. This one is gonna take awhile, that's for sure!

Discotrish

01-02-2005, 08:56 PM

What logical reasons do you have for this belief? Not trying to slam you, I'm just trying to understand. You aren't the only one who still has this "faith", but it is just so mind boggling how anyone could still think he can do it.

Perhaps with an offensive line constructed out of cement barriers. You don't need a great quarterback to win a superbowl, but you do need one that doesn't make a lot of mistakes.

Patti

Michael82

01-02-2005, 09:03 PM

STFU!!!

Do you feel better about yourself now? You're so damn smart for telling us about this before. Wow maybe you should be a damn coach or GM or something.

You're a real Bills fan. :rolleyes:

Good post. :bf1:

I agree. And now its sticky, someone has an ego problem.

Even though Bledsoe does suck, you dont need to rub our faces in it that you were right and we were wrong.

I agree. :clap:

FTG

01-02-2005, 09:10 PM

Good post. :bf1:

I agree. :clap:

negged :D

:jk:

Michael82

01-02-2005, 09:21 PM

negged :D

:jk:
You see my title?

FTG

01-02-2005, 09:29 PM

You see my title?

Who gave you that? Do You want him gone next season?

Michael82

01-02-2005, 09:31 PM

Yes. I have seen the light. He can't win the big games. I want a veteran signed to compete with JP Losman for the job and Drew Bledsoe to retire. :pray:

FTG

01-02-2005, 09:33 PM

Kitna would be a good backup for Losman

Iehoshua

01-02-2005, 09:34 PM

Yes. I have seen the light. He can't win the big games. I want a veteran signed to compete with JP Losman for the job and Drew Bledsoe to retire. :pray:
:up:

Michael82

01-02-2005, 09:34 PM

Yes. I have seen the light. He can't win the big games. I want a veteran signed to compete with JP Losman for the job and Drew Bledsoe to retire. :pray:
However, I will say this....

Bledsoe was not the ONLY one at fault. This loss was a team effort the same way the wins were team efforts and that's what makes me sick. All 3 units were horrible at times today.

Michael82

01-02-2005, 09:35 PM

Kitna would be a good backup for Losman
:up:

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 09:38 PM

Alright, alright! I get the point! Although, I hope you will take the time to read it Mr.C, because I was inspired to write it by your interchange with Chernobylwraiths.I read it and think you did a very good job actually. Well written, logical and succinct. The part that really nails it is this one:

...it is quite simply a fact that, in order for a team to be successful over the course of a season, at some point a team's QB is going to have to take the game on his shoulders and win it for his team. This is not something that just the "elite" QBs are expected to do, it is something that every decent QB in the NFL playing for a good team gets called on to do (J.Delhomme, A.Brooks, J.Plummer, T.Green, even K.Boller have done it this season). And, at some point, sooner or later, Drew Bledsoe was bound to be called on to win just such a game.The underlined sentence is the primary reason I knew it would never work out with him. He has never shown the ability to do this on any consistent level.

I hope you are wrong about next season however. They either need to cut him or trade him because another year of him being behind center will yield the same results. After 11 years, you know what you have with Drew. He has had multiple teams, multiple offenses, multiple coaches, multiple running games, multiple WRs...and his story remains painfully the same. There are no more excuses (nor were there before this year IMO).

The Bills would be far better off picking up a journeyman vet to backup JP and let JP get his bumps and bruises next season. We need to see what JP has and the sooner the better. I don't want to have another non-playoff year with Drew (making it 5 in a row), then start JP '06 and find out that JP is not the answer. That would mean 6 years without the playoffs.

It's better to find out next year what he is made of, even if it means missing the playoffs (not that I think that would be the case, mind you). If he really stinks, we draft another one in '06 and start again. But if he doesn't play, and then stinks it up in '06, we're looking at '07 before we try again. That's too long.

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 09:39 PM

Yes. I have seen the light. He can't win the big games. I want a veteran signed to compete with JP Losman for the job and Drew Bledsoe to retire. :pray::faint:

I think I just saw a pig fly by my window. :;

FTG

01-02-2005, 09:42 PM

:faint:

I think I just saw a pig fly by my window. :;

:rofl:

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 09:45 PM

I think he CAN do it just by looking at past "washed up" QBs who have taken teams to championships. I think this team with a healthy Willis and another year under McNally will play even better (especially if they go out and get a stud LT). I think the defense is on the verge of being something special. I think it CAN be done.

Do I feel he WILL lead the Bills to a SB victory next year? No.What are some examples of washed up QBs that have taken their teams to an SB victory? I'm interested in knowing who you consider washed up.

Tatonka

01-02-2005, 09:49 PM

However, I will say this....

Bledsoe was not the ONLY one at fault. This loss was a team effort the same way the wins were team efforts and that's what makes me sick. All 3 units were horrible at times today.

at some point, yeah.. all three units were bad.. but all three units, except bledsoe also made some plays.. bledsoe made zero plays.. he sucked a jock from the start of the game when he threw that horrible horrible pick to the lb, foote. i knew as soon as i saw that.. that bledsoe would suck all day.

chernobylwraiths

01-02-2005, 10:12 PM

What are some examples of washed up QBs that have taken their teams to an SB victory? I'm interested in knowing who you consider washed up.

I would say that Plunkett and Doug Williams come to mind. Rypien was another one who had a great season but he doesn't really have the numbers. There are also a number of older QBs who helped their teams to a SB only to lose it too.

I'm just saying that it is possible. I don't think it is probable or that I even want to see it attempted. My whole attempt since near the end of the game was just trying to say that the loss today wasn't all his fault, nor were a few of the others this year, as so of the wins weren't attributable to him either.

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 10:32 PM

...he sucked a jock from the start of the game...
:spit:

I have tears in my eyes from laughing so hard. I'm not kidding. Never heard that expression before.

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 10:47 PM

I'm just saying that it is possible. I don't think it is probable or that I even want to see it attempted. My whole attempt since near the end of the game was just trying to say that the loss today wasn't all his fault, nor were a few of the others this year, as so of the wins weren't attributable to him either.Technically it's possible, sure. It's also possible that Matthews could as well (how much better was Rypien than Shane?). But as a fan I want probable, not possible.

Also, I never said that the loss was/is 100% his fault. For some reason Drew supporters can't seem to get that. However, what I did say and still say is that Drew cannot beat good teams in big games, regardless of the circumstances or teams involved.

Yes it is a team game, but you have to admit that he is not a winner in those situations for whatever reasons you want to use (team, coach, system, players, etc.) For that reason he needs to go. There are no honorable mentions in the NFL. You either win out or you fail. Personally I want to win out and Drew can't get us there IMO. Therefore every minute he is starting is another minute wasted.

Maybe he'll catch on in Dallas or someplace else and win it. But I won't regret it, because it just wasn't meant to be for him in Buffalo. He's out of excuses.

The_Philster

01-02-2005, 11:09 PM

I agree. And now its sticky, someone has an ego problem.

Even though Bledsoe does suck, you dont need to rub our faces in it that you were right and we were wrong.
Some people are just like that :idunno:

Kitna would be a good backup for LosmanI could live with that...what do you think we'd have to give up to get him?

Mr. Cynical

01-02-2005, 11:19 PM

Some people are just like that :idunno:
:baby:

Deal with it. Of all people, you deserve it the most given your snotty, attacking rep comments.

The_Philster

01-02-2005, 11:20 PM

:baby:

Deal with it. Of all people, you deserve it the most given your snotty, attacking rep comments.

:roflmao: :liar2:

Discotrish

01-03-2005, 12:12 AM

shoulda coulda. We would be in the playoffs if the D had stopped a fourth and goal. Can I say that correctly.
And wasnt that a long multi play drive that started on the 1 that led to the miss. But i guess that gets overlooked when your trying to bash people.

The long multi-play drive was notable by its rarity. In a team sport everyone gets a share of the blame.

But if you believe the Bills DEFENSE needs to be replaced instead of its QB, you either have no common sense, or you have a crush on Drew. (Ahem. Not that there's anything wrong with that.) I am not bashing Drew, who is a wonderful guy who's had a stellar career and may even go the the Hall of Fame. I am commenting on his play in a playoff game that was crucial to us and meaningless to the team that whupped us. I am speculating that we may be better off without him.

I suppose anything is a bash if it isn't "Nice try guys, better luck next year." I just can't help it. "Nice try, guys, maybe we need a new quarterback." I will be happy to stick with the current defense to the extent that it's possible. You are welcome to bash them if you think they're the problem. Maybe you could start by comparing our defense's rating vs the 29 other teams and Bledsoe's rating vs 29 other QBs.

Patti

BSXIII

01-03-2005, 12:25 AM

Mr. Cynical

01-03-2005, 12:41 AM

Nobody is saying Bledsoe had a great game. I think the point people are trying to make is that if you're gonna accuse Bledsoe of choking for not winning today, the defense deserves some blame too for that 8:53 drive in the 4th quarter to close the game, against the third stringers. The QB struggles against a good team and he is a choker, a loser, not a leader, a failure, and the most hopeless player in the NFL. The WR's drop passes, the defense lets 3rd stringers have the ball for 9 minutes in the 4th quarter, the kicker misses a 28 yard FG, and the special teams has probably their worst game of the season. Yet the sole reason we lost is Bledsoe.

Some of us just don't see the logic.I suggest you read LifetimeBillsFan's epic post earlier in this thread. It is worth the effort. (not being sarcastic) Nobody is saying Drew lost the game on his own. But here is a part of his post that might help with the logic you aren't seeing:

...it is quite simply a fact that, in order for a team to be successful over the course of a season, at some point a team's QB is going to have to take the game on his shoulders and win it for his team. This is not something that just the "elite" QBs are expected to do, it is something that every decent QB in the NFL playing for a good team gets called on to do (J.Delhomme, A.Brooks, J.Plummer, T.Green, even K.Boller have done it this season). And, at some point, sooner or later, Drew Bledsoe was bound to be called on to win just such a game.

BSXIII

01-03-2005, 12:56 AM

I suggest you read LifetimeBillsFan's epic post. It is worth the effort. Nobody is saying Drew lost the game on his own. But here is a part of his post that might help with the logic you aren't seeing (not being sarcastic):

I did read the post, and I respect his opinions, but I just don't agree with everything. This will be my 16th year watching basically every playoff game (I started watching football when I was 8), and it seems like most of the time the cockiest, team that I can't stand the most has advanced pretty far in the playoffs, and I have seen plenty of great QB's fail to win (choke) in a big game against the team I can't stand.

Based on what I have seen football is a team game. I have seen plenty of QB's get credit for winning big games one year, only to see them face a stiffer pass rush the next and look like a completley different player. Every season a QB will dominate in the regular season, then get to the playoffs, and be shut down. Bledsoe has actually won both AFC championship games he's played in, yet according to some he's the biggest choker in the league. I'm also a Red Sox fan, and every player good player they ever had was considered a choker by some at one point. Plenty went on to win World Series with other teams, and many were a part of this years WS winning team. I take all the "choker" talk with a grain of salt. Only one player will QB the Super Bowl winning team this year, and every other QB will have fans saying they can't win the Super Bowl. I just don't buy it.

Mr. Cynical

01-03-2005, 01:20 AM

I did read the post, and I respect his opinions, but I just don't agree with everything. This will be my 16th year watching basically every playoff game (I started watching football when I was 8), and it seems like most of the time the cockiest, team that I can't stand the most has advanced pretty far in the playoffs, and I have seen plenty of great QB's fail to win (choke) in a big game against the team I can't stand.

Based on what I have seen football is a team game. I have seen plenty of QB's get credit for winning big games one year, only to see them face a stiffer pass rush the next and look like a completley different player. Every season a QB will dominate in the regular season, then get to the playoffs, and be shut down. Bledsoe has actually won both AFC championship games he's played in, yet according to some he's the biggest choker in the league. I'm also a Red Sox fan, and every player good player they ever had was considered a choker by some at one point. Plenty went on to win World Series with other teams, and many were a part of this years WS winning team. I take all the "choker" talk with a grain of salt. Only one player will QB the Super Bowl winning team this year, and every other QB will have fans saying they can't win the Super Bowl. I just don't buy it.Technically you can say he won 2 AFC Championships but in reality it was more like one. He didn't start the '01 game and outside of the one TD drive (that started on the 40) he was awful.

But you have to look beyond this one game and look at his overall career record vs. winning teams, as well as his career playoff performances. Neither are good by any stretch of the imagination. That's why lifetime and I and others say what we say about him. It's not like he's had a few "off games". It is a pattern that has existed for years. There's a reason Belichick let him go only a year after he signed a $103M contract. He's just not worth it.

You are right that QBs get more credit and more blame than they should. It is a team game. But....that said...the QB does have the most impact of any player on the field, hence the reason he gets the credit/blame (and the most money usually) Drew can't rally a team to victory when the chips are down, and you need that if you are going to be successful to go all the way. If you don't have that, you need a (more or less) mistake-free QB and Drew's not that either.

hintexas

01-03-2005, 04:43 AM

I really think Bledsoe is a good quarterback but the internal clock thing sometimes gets broken and on Sunday it was broken. You can even see when his clock breaks instead of throwing the ball away or this year he even ran sometimesw when the clock went off, he starts making lttle hops in the air. Any time Drew starts making those little hops like he is trying to wait for a wide receiver to clear from a db or linebacker then you better watch out. He is just asking for a defensive player to sack him or even worse he will try to jam it into a window and get picked off or the worse he will fumble it and a steler will run it into the endzone.

hemi13

01-03-2005, 06:47 AM

ryjam282

01-03-2005, 07:26 AM

Man are we all petty or what? As if we have any say in what happens in the off-season, or in any decision that the Bills make. So here we all sit arguing about things we have no control over. I've had the overnight to digest things and yes I'm still mad, but you know what? I'm proud of how OUR team played this year. To go from 0-4 and finish the season at 9-7. OUR team showed heart, and a never give up attitude and lastly, it was nice to have something to cheer about in January for once.

I am proud of them as well. Honestly though, I really wasn't expecting a win. I just had a weird feeling that Drew wasn't going to be "ON" yesterday. He looked gunshy again as usual when we need him to manage the game most....Here's a question, where was Lee Evans? He didn't even look to his side, instead throwing to Sam Aiken and Josh Reed? Now we all know that is a joke. No wonder he was 1-9 in the beginning of the game. Try throwing to you bread and butter guys. Heck, even Moulds didn't have a catch for awhile either. He needs to go. I have been sick of him for a long time now and since my ostrich head has been taken out of the sand it is amazing that this guy gets paid what he does to be that god awful.

Tatonka

01-03-2005, 08:26 AM

i am still pissed as hell.. i dont care about how much we improved or what we accomplished.. we were totally embarrased at home, against BACKUPS!!!.. every news station is acting like our loss is the worst in the world.. the vikings could have been worse.. but they backed in, so you wont here as much about it..

this loss was a total embarrassment, and it will sting even more when you realize next week, when garage teams like the jets and broncos are playing and we wont see the bills againt for HALF A YEAR!...

sorry.. but i am still completely disguisted.

doug45

01-03-2005, 09:03 AM

He sucks.

Lindell sucks.

Both better be gone this offseason.

You said it. Maybe Drew was a good QB in the past but he is no good now. I don't care if he had half the day to throw he can not get the job done. If we keep repeating our mistakes we will get the same results.

DaBills

01-03-2005, 09:49 AM

I think the point people are trying to make is that if you're gonna accuse Bledsoe of choking for not winning today, the defense deserves some blame too for that 8:53 drive in the 4th quarter to close the game, against the third stringers. The QB struggles against a good team and he is a choker, a loser, not a leader, a failure, and the most hopeless player in the NFL. The WR's drop passes, the defense lets 3rd stringers have the ball for 9 minutes in the 4th quarter, the kicker misses a 28 yard FG, and the special teams has probably their worst game of the season. Yet the sole reason we lost is Bledsoe.

Some of us just don't see the logic.

I hear you but have to disagree. First thing after the game yesterday I wasn't blaming just Drew. The whole O has questions it needs answered. Especially in its committment to the run, or lack there of. But to answer the logic question imo is that the defense didn't give up those drives and points until later in the game, after the offense had repeatedly tanked.

Seven 3-and-outs yesterday. And only 3 drops by WRs. Most of Drew's yards came in that hurry-up drive against a prevent 2nd string. Think the D doesn't discouraged by that after three quarters?

Plus, having to go back out there again and not get a rest. Those 3-and-outs translate into the 10 minute time of possession differential we lost. If we're out there longer, Pitt isn't scoring. Can't blame the D if the O can't score more, let alone GIVE UP a crucial TD on that fumble. They did plenty early to give the O a lot chances of being out on the field.

The other point someone had about Drew's clock was dead on. Something broke yesterday. If MM saw he was having trouble with releases, why did he still have Drew going to 5 step drops and locking in on the deep ball mid-late in the game? Why not screens? Or play action, (which used to be his bread and butter play in NE). Instead we get that stupid-ass end-around call. Twice it's worked all season. Yesterday for 15 and 11 a few weeks ago.( I remember the successful times only because I dread it every week when they fail to execute it.)

This is bull****.

Mr. Cynical

01-03-2005, 01:40 PM

I hear you but have to disagree. First thing after the game yesterday I wasn't blaming just Drew. The whole O has questions it needs answered. Especially in its committment to the run, or lack there of. But to answer the logic question imo is that the defense didn't give up those drives and points until later in the game, after the offense had repeatedly tanked.

Seven 3-and-outs yesterday. And only 3 drops by WRs. Most of Drew's yards came in that hurry-up drive against a prevent 2nd string. Think the D doesn't discouraged by that after three quarters?

Plus, having to go back out there again and not get a rest. Those 3-and-outs translate into the 10 minute time of possession differential we lost. If we're out there longer, Pitt isn't scoring. Can't blame the D if the O can't score more, let alone GIVE UP a crucial TD on that fumble. They did plenty early to give the O a lot chances of being out on the field.

The other point someone had about Drew's clock was dead on. Something broke yesterday. If MM saw he was having trouble with releases, why did he still have Drew going to 5 step drops and locking in on the deep ball mid-late in the game? Why not screens? Or play action, (which used to be his bread and butter play in NE). Instead we get that stupid-ass end-around call. Twice it's worked all season. Yesterday for 15 and 11 a few weeks ago.( I remember the successful times only because I dread it every week when they fail to execute it.)

This is bull****.
Great post.