Who's the Worst QB in the AFCE?

[justasportsfan]

Let's compare Drew to the worst team in the AFCE against the better teams that we both faced. Even against weaker teams Drew either was comparable or worse. Although there are certain factors involved the bills have better rb's and OL plus our D has been giving our O better field position .


Jets @ Miami
CP/AT YDS TD INT
J. Fiedler 18/33 206 0 2

Jets @ Buff
PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
D. Bledsoe 18/30 184 1 0


Not much of a difference between Fiedler and Drew on this one and Miami's OL is worse and no running game
______________________________________________________________


Steelers @ Miami

PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
A. Feeley 13/27 137 0 2

Steelers @ Buff.
CP/AT YDS TD INT
D. Bledsoe 16/30 189 0 1

What's this? Feely was facing their first team and Drew wasn't. Nuff said. That bomb to Evans in the last few minutes which was considered garbage time by Pitts padded Drew;s nos. as well


_________________________________________________________________


FISH @ NE
CP/AT YDS TD INT
J. Fiedler 20/41 251 1 1

Bills @ NE
PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
D. Bledsoe 8/19 76 0 3

Obviously Fiedler was better in this one

_________________________________________________________________


FISH @ Jets
PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
J. Fiedler 20/41 218 2 2


Bills @ Jets
PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
D. Bledsoe 16/29 197 2 1

Hmmmm. Drew was better by 1 INT




_________________________________________________________________

NE @ Miami
PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
A. Feeley 22/35 198 1 0

NE@ Buffalo
PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
D. Bledsoe 18/30 247 1 1

Don't forget, Drew fumbled the ball that cost us the game.Not entirely his fault but Feely came up big when he needed to while Drew didn't

_________________________________________________________________
FISH@Baltimore
PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
S. Rosenfels 16/38 264 1 3

Bills@ Balt

PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
D. Bledsoe 20/36 203 0 4

SAGE beats Drew in this one



Well, as you can see Drew is no better than Feely/Fiedler and he's paid more than both qb's combined.

[Iehoshua]

Great information to compare! Makes for some interesting thought.

You are preaching to the choir in regards to myself however.
:mex:

[Drive 4 Five]

Justa, I admire the hard work you must have put in to make a very valid point, but you really need not go through all that trouble my man. Anyone who knows anything about this sport already knows that Drew Bledsoe is the worst quarterback in this division and has done absolutley nothing to justify the huge salry he is getting. Drew hater or supporter (I feel I was a supporter for the most part), you cannot argue with the facts...

[justasportsfan]

Justa, I admire the hard work you must have put in to make a very valid point, but you really need not go through all that trouble my man. Anyone who knows anything about this sport already knows that Drew Bledsoe is the worst quarterback in this division and has done absolutley nothing to justify the huge salry he is getting. Drew hater or supporter (I feel I was a supporter for the most part), you cannot argue with the facts... just clarifying things w/ Drew supporters. :D Not to mention that other than hiring probowl OL almost everything was done to help drew get better.

[FTG]

Chirp Chirp Chirp Chirp

[Mr. Cynical]

Chirp Chirp Chirp ChirpJust wait. It takes them a little more time to come up with more excuses when the evidence is so clearly presented. However they will probably just fall back to "it's a team game" and continue to

[justasportsfan]

HATERS :couch:

[jamze132]

When is Donahoe gonna stop putting us all through this crap?

[lynobx]

Does anyone seriously believe that Jay Fiedler and AJ Feely are better QBs than Drew Bledsoe? Hate really does make people delusional.

[justasportsfan]

Does anyone seriously believe that Jay Fiedler and AJ Feely are better QBs than Drew Bledsoe? Hate really does make people delusional. Never said they were better, it's just that we're paying Drew a ton . It could be argued Drew is just as bad. With his salary there shouldn't be any doubts. Thing is half (?) of bills fans have doubts.

I actually think Drew would be worse if he was Miami's qb. Remember how bad he was last year w/ an Ol just as bad as Miami's except that we had a running game?

[Iehoshua]

Does anyone seriously believe that Jay Fiedler and AJ Feely are better QBs than Drew Bledsoe? Hate really does make people delusional.

The QBs named performed better in most of the games cited here than Bledsoe...

What is the basis of comparison when saying one QB is better than another? Win/Loss alone? Stats? Personality?

[Jan Reimers]

The QBs named performed better in most of the games cited here than Bledsoe...

What is the basis of comparison when saying one QB is better than another? Win/Loss alone? Stats? Personality?
What? Drew was better statistically in 4 of the 6 games cited and took us to a 9-7 record. What was Feely Fiedler's record again?

[justasportsfan]

What? Drew was better statistically in 4 of the 6 games cited and took us to a 9-7 record. What was Feely Fiedler's record again?Haha! Slightly better. Don't you find it sad that his nos. are slightly better than those scrubs? How much is he costing the team again?

[Iehoshua]

Jets @ Miami
CP/AT YDS TD INT
J. Fiedler 18/33 206 0 2

Jets @ Buff
PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
D. Bledsoe 18/30 184 1 0


Not much of a difference between Fiedler and Drew on this one and Miami's OL is worse and no running game
______________________________________________________________

^ this one Fiedler is worse indeed.


Steelers @ Miami

PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
A. Feeley 13/27 137 0 2

Steelers @ Buff.
CP/AT YDS TD INT
D. Bledsoe 16/30 189 0 1

What's this? Feely was facing their first team and Drew wasn't. Nuff said. That bomb to Evans in the last few minutes which was considered garbage time by Pitts padded Drew;s nos. as well


_________________________________________________________________

^ This one Feeley is worse, but it's taken into account Feeley wasn't facing the scrub team.


FISH @ NE
CP/AT YDS TD INT
J. Fiedler 20/41 251 1 1

Bills @ NE
PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
D. Bledsoe 8/19 76 0 3

Obviously Fiedler was better in this one

_________________________________________________________________

^Drew is worse


FISH @ Jets
PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
J. Fiedler 20/41 218 2 2


Bills @ Jets
PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
D. Bledsoe 16/29 197 2 1

Hmmmm. Drew was better by 1 INT

Fiedler is worse.




_________________________________________________________________

NE @ Miami
PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
A. Feeley 22/35 198 1 0

NE@ Buffalo
PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
D. Bledsoe 18/30 247 1 1

Don't forget, Drew fumbled the ball that cost us the game.Not entirely his fault but Feely came up big when he needed to while Drew didn't

Drew is worse.


_________________________________________________________________
FISH@Baltimore
PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
S. Rosenfels 16/38 264 1 3

Bills@ Balt

PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
D. Bledsoe 20/36 203 0 4

SAGE beats Drew in this one

^ Drew is worse than Sage '3rd String' Rosenfels.

So the score is 3 to 3, with the noteworthy exception being the Pittsburgh game where Feeley actually played against the Steelers' starters for the majority of the game. Say we don't count that. Okay, then Drew is on par with Feeley/Fiedler/Rosenfels.

[Jan Reimers]

We'll never agree. But Drew is and has always been a better QB than Feely Fiedler. Is he worth the additional money? Who knows?

[Iehoshua]

We'll never agree. But Drew is and has always been a better QB than Feely Fiedler. Is he worth the additional money? Who knows?
Don't get me wrong, choosing between Drew or any of the Dolphin garbage, I'd rather keep Bledsoe. I was simply pointing out their performances in the similar games aren't all too extraordinarily different...

[Ebenezer]

What? Drew was better statistically in 4 of the 6 games cited and took us to a 9-7 record. What was Feely Fiedler's record again?


Haha! Slightly better. Don't you find it sad that his nos. are slightly better than those scrubs? How much is he costing the team again?

Scrubs?? Costing this team?? Check the math!!!


anybody want to check out how much Fielder gets from the 'Fins or how much Miami gave up for Feely? For their 4-12 record Miami way overspent. Let's break it down to dollars and cents and see if we overpaid...

2004 cap figures for QBs that started a game in 2004:
Miami:
Fiedler $4.344 mil
Feeley $1.055 mil
Rosenfels $628k
total: $6.027 mil
total/win: $1.506 mil

Bills:
Bledsoe $4.417 mil
total: $4.417 mil
total/win: $491K

Pats:
Brady $5,063 mil
total: $5.063 mil
total/win: $362K

Jets:
Pennington $4 mil
Carter $455K
total: $4.455 mil
total/win: $446k

is there really a difference between $362K, $446K and $491K???

Now these are salary cap dollars...many might complain about bonuses and money owed to each player...If you look the contracts long term it gets rediculous for each player

2005 cap numbers:
Pennington about $4mil (his salary goes nuts after 2005)
Fiedler over $8 mil
Brady $10.03 mil
Bledsoe $6.5 mil

[Drive 4 Five]

:roflmao:

:bow: Leave it to Eb to break it down for you. You rock bro! :peace:

[chernobylwraiths]

Just wait. It takes them a little more time to come up with more excuses when the evidence is so clearly presented. However they will probably just fall back to "it's a team game" and continue to

That's clear evidence? Oh I forgot, it's all about the numbers. How silly of me.

[justasportsfan]

Scrubs?? Costing this team?? Check the math!!!


anybody want to check out how much Fielder gets from the 'Fins or how much Miami gave up for Feely? For their 4-12 record Miami way overspent. Let's break it down to dollars and cents and see if we overpaid...

2004 cap figures for QBs that started a game in 2004:
Miami:
Fiedler $4.344 mil
Feeley $1.055 mil
Rosenfels $628k
total: $6.027 mil
total/win: $1.506 mil

Bills:
Bledsoe $4.417 mil
total: $4.417 mil
total/win: $491K

Pats:
Brady $5,063 mil
total: $5.063 mil
total/win: $362K

Jets:
Pennington $4 mil
Carter $455K
total: $4.455 mil
total/win: $446k

is there really a difference between $362K, $446K and $491K???

Now these are salary cap dollars...many might complain about bonuses and money owed to each player...If you look the contracts long term it gets rediculous for each player

2005 cap numbers:
Pennington about $4mil (his salary goes nuts after 2005)
Fiedler over $8 mil
Brady $10.03 mil
Bledsoe $6.5 milNice one Eb. So you are telling me that both Fiedler and Feely cost 1 million more . Difference is that Fiedler is an idiot and Feely is a 3rd stringer. My bad for being off on the salary but I haven't been off in performance dept.

At least Feely has 1 winning record against a good team and Drew doesn't to think that Drew has a better supporting cast than Feely/Fiedler.


Like I said in another thread, our D and ST has gotten our O the best field position compared to any team in the NFL.

[Bert102176]

Bledsoe and Lindell both must go and by the way the pass interfeerence against the Bills was BS I actually got to go to 3 games this year and this game is the only one I've been too that we lost, by the way Phil do you wear a jersey that says the Phill-ster on the back if so I saw ya, lol

[The_Philster]

Yep...the jersey is in my avatar :up:

[tpeks40]

Great information to compare! Makes for some interesting thought.

You are preaching to the choir in regards to myself however.
:mex:
Why in the name of Gilcrist is Sam Aiken playing in a game as big as this? Were they trying to outsmart the Steelers second string? Wonderful game plan by the Rookie Head Coach, who is exactly why the Steelers went from 6-10 last year to 15-1 this year, no more 'genius' offensive game plans. Oh, and where's Grammatica when you need him? I'd give two Dan Manucci's, and three Vince Ferragamo's for a QB that can throw an accurate short pass. Oh well, see ya'll next year, different season, same results........Ciao

[finsrclowns]

YPA Drew 6.52 AJ 5.81
completion % Drew 56.9 AJ 53.7
QB rating Drew 76.6 AJ 67.3
TD/Int Drew 20/16 AJ 19/21
Int's returned for TD Drew 0 AJ 5
W/L Drew 9-7 AJ 3-5

[justasportsfan]

YPA Drew 6.52 AJ 5.81
completion % Drew 56.9 AJ 53.7
QB rating Drew 76.6 AJ 67.3
TD/Int Drew 20/16 AJ 19/21
Int's returned for TD Drew 0 AJ 5
W/L Drew 9-7 AJ 3-5

thank you for proving my point. Drew is slightly better than a 3rd string qb inspite of having a better supporting cast. That would make Drew a 2nd string qb?
Just to make things clear, that W/L record does not go to Drew but more so to our D and ST.

The only game Drew won for us was against Miami and the only game Feely came up big for the fins was against NE. So advantage goes to Feely because he played the Pats(wolrd champs/winning/playoff team) who was fighting for homefield advantage.

[finsrclowns]

thank you for proving my point. Drew is slightly better than a 3rd string qb inspite of having a better supporting cast. That would make Drew a 2nd string qb?
Just to make things clear, that W/L record does not go to Drew but more so to our D and ST.

The only game Drew won for us was against Miami and the only game Feely came up big for the fins was against NE. So advantage goes to Feely because he played the Pats(wolrd champs/winning/playoff team) who was fighting for homefield advantage.

I don't know whether Feeley will be good or not. This year his problem was decision making and INT's. He has a pro arm but the juries out on his head. Bledsoe will drop the occassional stink bomb but overall I think he's got a lot of pluses as a QB. But there's no getting around his limitations.

I give most of the credit to our D and ST's. The offensive system was a conservative run and short pass/occasional long pass offense in Buffalo that was not conducive to the QB "winning" many games for us. In truth it's not really an offense geared to DB's strengths which is downfield passing and we'd need to BE ABLE to do more of that to move the offense to the next level with DB as QB. DB's #'s were very ordinary but it was a winning formula after the coaches hit on what they wanted to do after the first month. But it was not until they saw with their own eyes after 3 games that we could not pass protect well enough for 4 second pass patterns to be consistently effective.

Here's the deal: if the Bills want to keep the OL as is, go with Losman, no question about it. I don't think DB can win a championship without an average of 4 seconds a throw. But here's the rub: I don't think Losman can either ( a championship that is). In fact I'll go so far as to say I can't remember the last team to win a SB that didn't do an excellent job at protecting the QB. So we'll see what direction TD and the coaching staff want to go. I'll support them either way but those are my thoughts.

[Mr. Cynical]

Scrubs?? Costing this team?? Check the math!!!

anybody want to check out how much Fielder gets from the 'Fins or how much Miami gave up for Feely? For their 4-12 record Miami way overspent. Let's break it down to dollars and cents and see if we overpaid...

2004 cap figures for QBs that started a game in 2004:
Miami:
Fiedler $4.344 mil
Feeley $1.055 mil
Rosenfels $628k
total: $6.027 mil
total/win: $1.506 mil

Bills:
Bledsoe $4.417 mil
total: $4.417 mil
total/win: $491K

Pats:
Brady $5,063 mil
total: $5.063 mil
total/win: $362K

Jets:
Pennington $4 mil
Carter $455K
total: $4.455 mil
total/win: $446k

is there really a difference between $362K, $446K and $491K???

Now these are salary cap dollars...many might complain about bonuses and money owed to each player...If you look the contracts long term it gets rediculous for each player

2005 cap numbers:
Pennington about $4mil (his salary goes nuts after 2005)
Fiedler over $8 mil
Brady $10.03 mil
Bledsoe $6.5 mil
Yes, let's break it down...

"Now these are salary cap dollars...many might complain about bonuses and money owed to each player..."

Money is money. You need to count every actual dollar that ends up in Drew's pocket. That means the bonuses, which are a significant number if I remember correctly. Isn't his TOTAL money earned this year going to be somehere around $8M?

In addition, why not take a look at what have we spent on Drew in TOTAL to date? I think that number is north of $20M but I don't have the link. Since you are the cap guy, can you provide that number?

Finally, you are using the salary for all QBs on each team except for the Bills. That's not apples to apples. No, Matthews didn't start but the only reason Carter did was because Chad got hurt. So if you want to "do the math" correctly, you need to pro-rate each QB's salary per game. Otherwise you are double-counting.

[Typ0]

Scrubs?? Costing this team?? Check the math!!!


anybody want to check out how much Fielder gets from the 'Fins or how much Miami gave up for Feely? For their 4-12 record Miami way overspent. Let's break it down to dollars and cents and see if we overpaid...

2004 cap figures for QBs that started a game in 2004:
Miami:
Fiedler $4.344 mil
Feeley $1.055 mil
Rosenfels $628k
total: $6.027 mil
total/win: $1.506 mil

Bills:
Bledsoe $4.417 mil
total: $4.417 mil
total/win: $491K

Pats:
Brady $5,063 mil
total: $5.063 mil
total/win: $362K

Jets:
Pennington $4 mil
Carter $455K
total: $4.455 mil
total/win: $446k

is there really a difference between $362K, $446K and $491K???

Now these are salary cap dollars...many might complain about bonuses and money owed to each player...If you look the contracts long term it gets rediculous for each player

2005 cap numbers:
Pennington about $4mil (his salary goes nuts after 2005)
Fiedler over $8 mil
Brady $10.03 mil
Bledsoe $6.5 mil

come on eb...you put the entire QB roster of one team against the cost of DB. That's kind of rediculous use of stats...I think you have been readying too much wys banter. Either compare the entire roster cost or the cost per game outright of the QB who started in that game--it will render far different results and clearly show that DB is a waste.

[chernobylwraiths]

come on eb...you put the entire QB roster of one team against the cost of DB. That's kind of rediculous use of stats...I think you have been readying too much wys banter. Either compare the entire roster cost or the cost per game outright of the QB who started in that game--it will render far different results and clearly show that DB is a waste.

Then he should put it up against others. Like McNair, Green, Garcia, etc.

[Ebenezer]

come on eb...you put the entire QB roster of one team against the cost of DB.

Incorrect...I was responding to the cost per win...

if you reread you will notice that I put the cost of the players who started games for each team...If I add in Losman and Matthews that raises the Bills total by about $50,000...

I would also have to add in the salary for Rohan Davey and the 3rd stringer in NE and the 3rd stringer in NY...that would probably increase their numbers by about $50,000...

[ScottLawrence]

Bledsoe's the worst starting QB in the AFC East.

Behind Boller(Ravens), Grossman(Bears), and McCown(Cardinals) he is the next worse in the league.

And, notice, all of those Quarterbacks have the potential to be better.....Bledsoe has no potential at all.

[Ebenezer]

Money is money. You need to count every actual dollar that ends up in Drew's pocket. That means the bonuses, which are a significant number if I remember correctly. Isn't his TOTAL money earned this year going to be somehere around $8M?

In addition, why not take a look at what have we spent on Drew in TOTAL to date? I think that number is north of $20M but I don't have the link. Since you are the cap guy, can you provide that number?

Finally, you are using the salary for all QBs on each team except for the Bills. That's not apples to apples. No, Matthews didn't start but the only reason Carter did was because Chad got hurt. So if you want to "do the math" correctly, you need to pro-rate each QB's salary per game. Otherwise you are double-counting.

I'll start with the last one first...see post above...adding Losman and Matthews adds about $50K to each game...adding the Pats other 2 QBs does about the same...can't tell you what the 3rd Jets QB makes but assuming it is the minimum that adds about $14K to their total...still doesn't make it that different.

OK, the total on Drew (3 years and the prorated amount that will count next year) is about $22M...the total on Pennington is $62M over the next 6 (extended last year) and he made another $5M+ last year on top of that...is his record of not making the playoffs and barely skirting in this year worth that amount?

Finally the first point...that is unfair to judge because it works both ways...Brady got a $10M bonus and did not make the playoffs the year after he won the SB on his rookie contract...is that fair to judge?? Pennington got a huge bonus last year (I don't have the actual number but it was in the range of $14-16M) and didn't make the playoffs but is only getting $1M in actually salary this year (no other bonuses that I know of). So last year he cost the team immensly but this year looks like a super bargain but again he is getting $62M over 6 years ($20+M guarenteed).

Is Manning or Vick worth the money Indi and Atlanta are paying them if they don't win it all? Assuming only one can with the SB the other is grossly overpaid.

That is why I used cap numbers to determine price per win...with the way the contracts are designed it isn't accurate or fair to try to use "how much they actually put in their pocket". Not everybody gets a signing bonus in the same year...

[Typ0]

Incorrect...I was responding to the cost per win...

if you reread you will notice that I put the cost of the players who started games for each team...If I add in Losman and Matthews that raises the Bills total by about $50,000...

I would also have to add in the salary for Rohan Davey and the 3rd stringer in NE and the 3rd stringer in NY...that would probably increase their numbers by about $50,000...

not incorrect. We paid for the QBs on our roster even though they didn't play just like Miami paid for 3qbs who played. The cost of the QB position is the cost of the QB position no matter how many of the QBs on the roster play...so you are saying that lossman and Matthews combined make 50K?

[Typ0]

what point are you trying to make anyway Eb? Are you just saying that the more wins a team gets the less it costs them per win for the players on the roster? That's kind of obvious isn't it? Why don't you just divide the total roster costs for each team by the amount of wins and demonstrate that PIT payed the least per win? That's quite a revelation!

[chernobylwraiths]

Bledsoe's the worst starting QB in the AFC East.

Yeah, because Fiedler and Feeley have done so great this year.

[Iehoshua]

Bledsoe's the worst starting QB in the AFC East.

Behind Boller(Ravens), Grossman(Bears), and McCown(Cardinals) he is the next worse in the league.

And, notice, all of those Quarterbacks have the potential to be better.....Bledsoe has no potential at all.

Bledsoe at a time was better, but unfortunately, Bledsoe is tailing off... The younger Bollers and Grossmans even Losmans have potential to be better than Drew WAS, but there's no guarantee. In our case with Losman, there is only one way to find out. As my boy said about Han Solo into the Carbonite:
"Put him in!"
http://teamtakeo.com/vad.jpg

[Mr. Cynical]

I'll start with the last one first...see post above...adding Losman and Matthews adds about $50K to each game...adding the Pats other 2 QBs does about the same...can't tell you what the 3rd Jets QB makes but assuming it is the minimum that adds about $14K to their total...still doesn't make it that different.
$50K per game = $800K total. However, you still need to account for the bonuses. Money is money. What did JP get as his signing bonus? I'm sure it amounts to alot more than that.


OK, the total on Drew (3 years and the prorated amount that will count next year) is about $22M...the total on Pennington is $62M over the next 6 (extended last year) and he made another $5M+ last year on top of that...is his record of not making the playoffs and barely skirting in this year worth that amount?
Ok, so we have *spent* $22M on Drew in total. That is a known, paid amount. Do you think he was worth that much for what he did? As for Chad, you have no idea *at this point in time* how much of that $62M he will see so that number is moot. Drew signed for $103M in 2000 and he isn't going to see anywhere near that amount.

And last time I checked, the Jets are headed to the playoffs and we are not. Not to mention he was injured this year and has had to fight to get back.


Finally the first point...that is unfair to judge because it works both ways...Brady got a $10M bonus and did not make the playoffs the year after he won the SB on his rookie contract...is that fair to judge??
When did Brady get his bonus? And what has he done in the time that he started for the Pats? 2 SB wins and in deep into the playoffs again.


Pennington got a huge bonus last year (I don't have the actual number but it was in the range of $14-16M) and didn't make the playoffs but is only getting $1M in actually salary this year (no other bonuses that I know of). So last year he cost the team immensly but this year looks like a super bargain but again he is getting $62M over 6 years ($20+M guarenteed).
See above.


Is Manning or Vick worth the money Indi and Atlanta are paying them if they don't win it all? Assuming only one can with the SB the other is grossly overpaid.
Are both teams in the playoffs? Are they the MAIN reason for that? Yes. So they are worth every penny.


That is why I used cap numbers to determine price per win...with the way the contracts are designed it isn't accurate or fair to try to use "how much they actually put in their pocket". Not everybody gets a signing bonus in the same year...
Again, money is money. You have to use actual dollars the player put into his bank account and the dollars he is guaranteed. Everything else is hypothetical until it actually hits.