When do you expect Losman to start?

[ArcticWildMan]

I see a lot of Drew believers saying he should start in '06 which makes me chuckle. His contract is almost over by then for cripe sakes.

Why did we draft a first round player if we are not going to even give him a chance to play until his 3rd year?? Losman starts next season or we wasted the draft pick on him.

[LarryBoy]

I see a lot of Drew believers saying he should start in '06 which makes me chuckle. His contract is almost over by then for cripe sakes.

Why did we draft a first round player if we are not going to even give him a chance to play until his 3rd year?? Losman starts next season or we wasted the draft pick on him.




Let's say your 100% right....lets say you make believers outta all of us here, and every member of this board is an amigo or whatever....then what? You win, and it still MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. Since we do not decide who starts or who sits, isnt it kinda silly posting this OVER AND OVER again?


Dont your arms get kinda tired? :deadhorse

[DraftBoy]

Open battle in training camp and if he wins it week 1, if he doesnt then when Drew falters.

[LarryBoy]

I see a lot of Drew believers saying he should start in '06 which makes me chuckle. His contract is almost over by then for cripe sakes.




And isnt he signed through '08?

[ArcticWildMan]

And isnt he signed through '08?

Sounds about right. So you say it's OK to let him sit for 2 years and only start to learn the ropes in his third year? He will struggle his first year. All new QB's do.

What do we gain by deferring that until 2006? 2006 is the year we should be peaking, as far as talent goes, not handing the show over to a rookie QB to start his learning process.

Unless everybody thinks Drew is capable of taking us to the SB next year, we have to get Losman in and start his learning process ASAP so we can take advantage of the pieces in place right now.

[Mr. Cynical]

Unless everybody thinks Drew is capable of taking us to the SB next year, we have to get Losman in and start his learning process ASAP so we can take advantage of the pieces in place right now.
:bf1:

[DraftBoy]

Sounds about right. So you say it's OK to let him sit for 2 years and only start to learn the ropes in his third year? He will struggle his first year. All new QB's do.

What do we gain by deferring that until 2006? 2006 is the year we should be peaking, as far as talent goes, not handing the show over to a rookie QB to start his learning process.

Unless everybody thinks Drew is capable of taking us to the SB next year, we have to get Losman in and start his learning process ASAP so we can take advantage of the pieces in place right now.


In no way will Losman be near peaking in 06, he wont be near his peak till 2010 or so.

[LarryBoy]

Sounds about right. So you say it's OK to let him sit for 2 years and only start to learn the ropes in his third year? He will struggle his first year. All new QB's do.

What do we gain by deferring that until 2006? 2006 is the year we should be peaking, as far as talent goes, not handing the show over to a rookie QB to start his learning process.

Unless everybody thinks Drew is capable of taking us to the SB next year, we have to get Losman in and start his learning process ASAP so we can take advantage of the pieces in place right now.



Again, see my 1st post...the its not for me to choose..or you, so we can argue about this untill the horses....err, wait they are all dead, cows come home, but it still wont matter who we want to start.

Just for the record I favor an open fight for QB this summer, but Im no coach or GM. :idunno:

[ArcticWildMan]

In no way will Losman be near peaking in 06, he wont be near his peak till 2010 or so.


That's fine and dandy but the rest of the pieces in the puzzle either will be at their peak or will be FA's after the 2006 season.

We can let Losman take his lumps this coming season and head into 2006 strong and a serious SB contender or we can continue to milk Drew and his diminishing skills and be left with a total green QB when the rest of the team is ready for the next level. Which one would you rather see?

[DraftBoy]

That's fine and dandy but the rest of the pieces in the puzzle either will be at their peak or will be FA's after the 2006 season.

We can let Losman take his lumps this coming season and head into 2006 strong and a serious SB contender or we can continue to milk Drew and his diminishing skills and be left with a total green QB when the rest of the team is ready for the next level. Which one would you rather see?


Honestly I dont see as a SB contender in 06. Stay with me here on this:

We will have a green or 2nd year starter at QB. At WR we have Evans who should have taken over the #1 spot and if this year was any indication than Moulds is losing his skill, albeit thats not a guarantee. OL is finally coming together but we will be shuffling it around over the next seasons with Jennings gone prolly. DL we still lack a true pass rusher which is something our D vitally needs. LB's are gonna be solid till then. DB's is still a huge concern bc we got one corner who finally showed up this season in Clements but needs to be resigned and McGee too who has has shown flashes of brilliance and flashes of being an idiot too. Vincent while locked up till 09 I dont think he'll be anywhere near what he is now in 06, and Milloy may be diminishing as well. All im saying is that yea we will have the vet team to contend but there are still alot of trouble spots on this team aside from the QB that we need to worry bout. Most notably WR, OL, DL, and DB.

[The_Philster]

Unless everybody thinks Drew is capable of taking us to the SB next year, we have to get Losman in and start his learning process ASAP so we can take advantage of the pieces in place right now.No QB takes us to the Super Bowl....a team game last I checked.
That being said, I expected JP to start full time in 2006 when he was drafted. If Drew keeps the starting job heading into 2005, I think his performance will make the call on JP starting...possibly by midseason

[willis_mchenry]

It doesn't matter to me who starts, as long as we're winning. I trust Mularkey and Co. to pick the right guy. We can say who we'd like to start but it is still the coaches who make the decision. Gotta trust the guys with experience to make the right decision.

[Jayhawk]

cut Bledsoe, or trade him to like Arizona for a bag of cleets. WE need Losman NOW!

[Typ0]

Honestly I dont see as a SB contender in 06. Stay with me here on this:

We will have a green or 2nd year starter at QB. At WR we have Evans who should have taken over the #1 spot and if this year was any indication than Moulds is losing his skill, albeit thats not a guarantee. OL is finally coming together but we will be shuffling it around over the next seasons with Jennings gone prolly. DL we still lack a true pass rusher which is something our D vitally needs. LB's are gonna be solid till then. DB's is still a huge concern bc we got one corner who finally showed up this season in Clements but needs to be resigned and McGee too who has has shown flashes of brilliance and flashes of being an idiot too. Vincent while locked up till 09 I dont think he'll be anywhere near what he is now in 06, and Milloy may be diminishing as well. All im saying is that yea we will have the vet team to contend but there are still alot of trouble spots on this team aside from the QB that we need to worry bout. Most notably WR, OL, DL, and DB.

Yeah...what you are saying is why we will be SB contenders. Because the holes on our team are obvious and there are clearly ways they can be plugged up going into next season.

[TacklingDummy]

The next Rob Johnson (R.J. Loserman) should never start. The Bills should look for a vet. QB like Kitna.

[FTG]

The next Rob Johnson (R.J. Loserman) should never start. The Bills should look for a vet. QB like Kitna.

negged

[buffalofan19]

If Losman starts in 2005, the Bills will not be a serious contender (Here me out before you bombard me with negative rep). People say that Losman will not be any worse than Bledsoe nest year, but that is not necessarily true. I guarantee you there will be a frustrating learning curve with this guy. The biggest problem that young mobile QB's have is that they try to make plays with their legs when their arm will do (i.e tuck the ball and run when a receiver is wide open) and vice versa (throw the ball when he should have run). Rob Johnson was notorious for that. Unless Losman is superhuman, he will be no different, especially in the early stages, AND IT WILL COST THE BILLS SOME GAMES NEXT YEAR, I guarantee it.

I am not saying Losman will be another Rob Johnson. If fact I know he'll be better, but it will still take some time for this to happen. Losman will make those mistakes early, like any young mobile QB, and he will have to overcome them. Wyche and Mularkey will help but he's got to figure it out mostly on his own. By the time he does, at best case scenario, the Bills will be out of playoff contention in 2005, which in my eyes, is unacceptable. This team needs to make the playoffs next year for it's own sake. Time is running out as the defense is getting older and we don't know how long they'll be able to stay together with free agency and all. That's why I don't think Losman should start next year.

[ArcticWildMan]

The next Rob Johnson (R.J. Loserman) should never start. The Bills should look for a vet. QB like Kitna.

Dumbest post ever.

Losman hasn't even started a game and you're comparing him to Rob Johnson. :shakeno:

[ArcticWildMan]

If Losman starts in 2005, the Bills will not be a serious contender (Here me out before you bombard me with negative rep). People say that Losman will not be any worse than Bledsoe nest year, but that is not necessarily true. I guarantee you there will be a frustrating learning curve with this guy. The biggest problem that young mobile QB's have is that they try to make plays with their legs when their arm will do (i.e tuck the ball and run when a receiver is wide open) and vice versa (throw the ball when he should have run). Rob Johnson was notorious for that. Unless Losman is superhuman, he will be no different, especially in the early stages, AND IT WILL COST THE BILLS SOME GAMES NEXT YEAR, I guarantee it.

I am not saying Losman will be another Rob Johnson. If fact I know he'll be better, but it will still take some time for this to happen. Losman will make those mistakes early, like any young mobile QB, and he will have to overcome them. Wyche and Mularkey will help but he's got to figure it out mostly on his own. By the time he does, at best case scenario, the Bills will be out of playoff contention in 2005, which in my eyes, is unacceptable. This team needs to make the playoffs next year for it's own sake. Time is running out as the defense is getting older and we don't know how long they'll be able to stay together with free agency and all. That's why I don't think Losman should start next year.


You bring up another point nobody has thought of...Sam Wyche is the perfect guy to mentor JP. Wyche is credited as being a QB mentor extraordinaire. Why take the chance of losing the opportunity to have him mentor JP? If we wait too long to start JP, we may lose Wyche to another team or retirement and that would be a waste of good coaching talent.

[buffalofan19]

You bring up another point nobody has thought of...Sam Wyche is the perfect guy to mentor JP. Wyche is credited as being a QB mentor extraordinaire. Why take the chance of losing the opportunity to have him mentor JP? If we wait too long to start JP, we may lose Wyche to another team or retirement and that would be a waste of good coaching talent.
He'll be a good mentor, yes, but Wyche alone is not going to make him a good QB, and not anywhere near instantly either. It is going to take alot of time for Losman to develop, which will mean missing the playoffs... again. Something this team cannot afford.

[ArcticWildMan]

He'll be a good mentor, yes, but Wyche alone is not going to make him a good QB, and not anywhere near instantly either. It is going to take alot of time for Losman to develop, which will mean missing the playoffs... again. Something this team cannot afford.


So we just keep putting off the inevitable and pray he suddenly wakes up an all-pro in 2006?

[buffalofan19]

So we just keep putting off the inevitable and pray he suddenly wakes up an all-pro in 2006?
If it means making the playoffs next year... yes.

[FTG]

. Unless Losman is superhuman, he will be no different, especially in the early stages, AND IT WILL COST THE BILLS SOME GAMES NEXT YEAR, I guarantee it.

.

I don't think he will cost us anymore games than Bledsoe would

[buffalofan19]

I don't think he will cost us anymore games than Bledsoe would
Okay, here's where I become extremely unpopular, Drew Bledsoe, while not great, has not been as bad as alot of people are claiming him to be. First off, he is not as bad as Tommy Maddox, Kerry Coillins, Tim Rattay, Jeff Blake etc. as alot of people claim. I don't want to play the "hater" card, but I honestly think some people's dissappointment with Bledsoe (which, alot of it is meritable) is getting the better of their judgement. But I digress.

Look, the events of 2003 forced Bledsoe to change his style, his habits, his way of thinking on the football field. I don't care who you are, you can't completely change your style of play over a single year. Not even Montana could. Drew was much better this year than last (albeit not good enough) regardless what the stats say. He made some plays, even against Pittsburgh, that, in 2003, we would not even imagine him doing. For instance that drive in the 3rd Quarter from the one yard line (where Lindell missed the gimme), he had like 5 straight completions. Think that would happen in 2003, I don't.

Look, I'm not saying I am satisfied iwth Bledsoe's play, but I think it will get even better next year, especially under this coaching staff, who will also be all the better because they have the experience. Point is, we may see the efective Bledsoe we've all been screaming for. Drew Bledsoe won't lose these games like you may think.

[ArcticWildMan]

Okay, here's where I become extremely unpopular, Drew Bledsoe, while not great, has not been as bad as alot of people are claiming him to be. First off, he is not as bad as Tommy Maddox, Kerry Coillins, Tim Rattay, Jeff Blake etc. as alot of people claim. I don't want to play the "hater" card, but I honestly think some people's dissappointment with Bledsoe (which, alot of it is meritable) is getting the better of their judgement. But I digress.

Look, the events of 2003 forced Bledsoe to change his style, his habits, his way of thinking on the football field. I don't care who you are, you can't completely change your style of play over a single year. Not even Montana could. Drew was much better this year than last (albeit not good enough) regardless what the stats say. He made some plays, even against Pittsburgh, that, in 2003, we would not even imagine him doing. For instance that drive in the 3rd Quarter from the one yard line (where Lindell missed the gimme), he had like 5 straight completions. Think that would happen in 2003, I don't.

Look, I'm not saying I am satisfied iwth Bledsoe's play, but I think it will get even better next year, especially under this coaching staff, who will also be all the better because they have the experience. Point is, we may see the efective Bledsoe we've all been screaming for. Drew Bledsoe won't lose these games like you may think.


I'd take Kerry Collins over Bledsoe.

[ArcticWildMan]

Drew was much better this year than last (albeit not good enough) regardless what the stats say. He made some plays, even against Pittsburgh, that, in 2003, we would not even imagine him doing. For instance that drive in the 3rd Quarter from the one yard line (where Lindell missed the gimme), he had like 5 straight completions. Think that would happen in 2003, I don't.



WOW!!!! 5 straight completions!!! Give him a 10 million dollar signing bonus right now!!!!

[buffalofan19]

WOW!!!! 5 straight completions!!! Give him a 10 million dollar signing bonus right now!!!!
Like I said, nothing to write home about but my point is it takes longer for a QB to change his scheme than people think, especially when he has been playing the same one for 12 years. Now I know the next question will be "If we're going to take this long to wait for a QB to develop in a system, why not Losmam?" My answer is that Bledsoe will be good enough next year to at least get the Bills to the playoffs ion 2005, JP Losman will not, IMO for the reasons stated in my earlier post. He is also farther along in his "development" also. I also think experience counts but we've beaten that dead horse long enough.

[ArcticWildMan]

Like I said, nothing to write home about but my point is it takes longer for a QB to change his scheme than people think, especially when he has been playing the same one for 12 years. Now I know the next question will be "If we're going to take this long to wait for a QB to develop in a system, why not Losmam?" My answer is that Bledsoe will be good enough next year to at least get the Bills to the playoffs ion 2005, JP Losman will not, IMO for the reasons stated in my earlier post. He is also farther along in his "development" also. I also think experience counts but we've beaten that dead horse long enough.

And what is to say that Losman couldn't do as well as Bledsoe? All the team is asking Drew to do is not make mistakes that cost the team. Hell, we can do that with Losman at the helm and we might even be surprised and have him make some plays that Drew can't thanks to his mobility.

[buffalofan19]

And what is to say that Losman couldn't do as well as Bledsoe? All the team is asking Drew to do is not make mistakes that cost the team. Hell, we can do that with Losman at the helm and we might even be surprised and have him make some plays that Drew can't thanks to his mobility.
That's what I am trying to say. Losman WILL make just as many if not more mistakes. He's a young mobile QB who needs to hone his skill just like any other of his type. And it will cost the Bills, at least early on, if not later into the season. Bledsoe, I believe will be better than he was this year, and the mistakes will be even more minimized from him. I could be wrong, but given that only one rookie/inexperienced QB has led his team to the playoffs (with a full season as a starter) in forever, I seriously doubt it.

[ArcticWildMan]

That's what I am trying to say. Losman WILL make just as many if not more mistakes. He's a young mobile QB who needs to hone his skill just like any other of his type. And it will cost the Bills, at least early on, if not later into the season. Bledsoe, I believe will be better than he was this year, and the mistakes will be even more minimized from him. I could be wrong, but given that only one rookie/inexperienced QB has led his team to the playoffs (with a full season as a starter) in forever, I seriously doubt it.


Sorry, but Drew is no better than a second stringer. If you want to minimize the mistakes at QB, then just bring a few journeyman QB's and let them compete for the job. We can use the money we are blowing on Bledsoe to shore up our offensive line or some other spot on the team.

[buffalofan19]

Sorry, but Drew is no better than a second stringer. If you want to minimize the mistakes at QB, then just bring a few journeyman QB's and let them compete for the job. We can use the money we are blowing on Bledsoe to shore up our offensive line or some other spot on the team.
Actually no the Bills can't. By cutting Bledsoe the Bills take a cap hit of about 4 million. Add to the with the $3 million it will cost to bring an effective journeyman (I'm talking someone like a Brees or Hasselbeck, not someone like Maddox or Blake, which will be a downgrade). That's $7 million against the cap, as opposed to the $6 million for keeping Bledsoe. Drew is better than a second stringer (but arguing until I'm blue in the face isn't going to convince you of that obviously, like I said some people's frustrations have gotten the better of their judgement here), and still better than Losman at this given point in time. There fore I think you go with him.

[ArcticWildMan]

Actually no the Bills can't. By cutting Bledsoe the Bills take a cap hit of about 4 million. Add to the with the $3 million it will cost to bring an effective journeyman (I'm talking someone like a Brees or Hasselbeck, not someone like Maddox or Blake, which will be a downgrade). That's $7 million against the cap, as opposed to the $6 million for keeping Bledsoe. Drew is better than a second stringer (but arguing until I'm blue in the face isn't going to convince you of that obviously, like I said some people's frustrations have gotten the better of their judgement here), and still better than Losman at this given point in time. There fore I think you go with him.


We aren't going to bring in a Brees, so that idea is a moot point.

Sorry, but I don't think keeping Drew around so he can complete 5 of 5 is acceptable for this team. Sooner or later we will have to take our lumps with Losman. I think now is the time because we have a top notch defense to back him up. That may not be the case if we wait 2-3 years. We could very easily be looking at a mediocre defense and a green QB. I'll take my chances now.....

[buffalofan19]

We aren't going to bring in a Brees, so that idea is a moot point.

Sorry, but I don't think keeping Drew around so he can complete 5 of 5 is acceptable for this team. Sooner or later we will have to take our lumps with Losman. I think now is the time because we have a top notch defense to back him up. That may not be the case if we wait 2-3 years. We could very easily be looking at a mediocre defense and a green QB. I'll take my chances now.....
You miss my point about the 5 straight completions. I have never said that was great or even satsfactory. What I am trying to say is that Bledsoe wass finally getting the hang of this new system, which is a challenge for any QB no matter how good or bad, and will be alot better next year for it. Losman's improvement, however, will come too late for a playoff run. The Bills almost got to the playoffs with Drew at the helm this year. If he had a running game in the first four weeks, they would have. Bledsoe got better every week until Pittsburgh, but I think there are others that share equal blame along with Bledsoe for that one. The Bills cannot afford to take their lumps next year. Playoffs is an absolute necessity next year. And, believe it or not, like it or not, the chances are actually better with Bledsoe at the helm.

[Bling]

The playoffs were so close...yet it was so far. Bring in Losman!

[ArcticWildMan]

You miss my point about the 5 straight completions. I have never said that was great or even satsfactory. What I am trying to say is that Bledsoe wass finally getting the hang of this new system, which is a challenge for any QB no matter how good or bad, and will be alot better next year for it. Losman's improvement, however, will come too late for a playoff run. The Bills almost got to the playoffs with Drew at the helm this year. If he had a running game in the first four weeks, they would have. Bledsoe got better every week until Pittsburgh, but I think there are others that share equal blame along with Bledsoe for that one. The Bills cannot afford to take their lumps next year. Playoffs is an absolute necessity next year. And, believe it or not, like it or not, the chances are actually better with Bledsoe at the helm.


Can you see the future? Do you KNOW for a fact that Losman can't grasp the offense right off the bat? Do you KNOW for a fact that Bledsoe will not regress or at least not improve? You seem awfully sure that Losman can't play in this league next year yet you will turn a blind eye to all of Drew's weaknesses and hide behind the "he is learning a new system" excuse.

12 year vets should be able to grasp any system in the minimal amount of time, not be coddled and be given special coaching considerations like Drew has been. No other vet QB in the league is given the same margin of error as Drew enjoys. Vet players perform NOW or they get walking papers. What makes Bledsoe so special that he is the exception?

This team won this year in spite of Bledsoe. The numbers and the play by him prove that point. Next season will be a repeat of this year if he starts.

[buffalofan19]

Can you see the future? Do you KNOW for a fact that Losman can't grasp the offense right off the bat? Do you KNOW for a fact that Bledsoe will not regress or at least not improve? You seem awfully sure that Losman can't play in this league next year yet you will turn a blind eye to all of Drew's weaknesses and hide behind the "he is learning a new system" excuse.

12 year vets should be able to grasp any system in the minimal amount of time, not be coddled and be given special coaching considerations like Drew has been. No other vet QB in the league is given the same margin of error as Drew enjoys. Vet players perform NOW or they get walking papers. What makes Bledsoe so special that he is the exception?

This team won this year in spite of Bledsoe. The numbers and the play by him prove that point. Next season will be a repeat of this year if he starts.
No I can't see the future. No I don't KNOW for a fact Losman will be worse. But seeing as how about 99% of rookie/inexperienced QB's struggle in a way that their teams don't make the playoffs (even guys like Peyton Manning, who did have guys like Harrison and a decent o-line in his rookie year), it's a damn good bet.

To say the Bills won in spite of Bledsoe is assinine. He wasn't "the reason" they were winning, but he contributed greatly, especially during the winning streak. The Seattle game (I know you are going to point to the 3 INTs but if Drew doesn't have that good a day passing such as being something like 10-12 on 3rd downs, most of them through the air, the Bills don't have nearly that type of offensive output they have. 3 of mcGahee's 4 TD's were from 2 yds out or less, The Bills set all those TD's up through the air), the Miami Game, and the San Francisco game are the big examples. Games like Cincy and Cleveland he didn't have to do anything because the Bills were up by about 20 before the offense set foot on the field. If Bledsoe went something like 6-27 23 yds. 0 TDs 3 INTs and a fumble every game but the Bills still managed to win 9-7, then you could say the Bills were winning in spite of Bledsoe. It wasn't like he was giving games away (and no, he didn't give the Pittsburgh game away either).

Next season will not be a repeat of next year if Bledsoe starts because the entire team, including Bledsoe will be better. I guarantee it (Quote me). Drew has weaknesses, yes. I am not hiding behind him, I am saying he is overcoming them though, thanks to this new system. To me, depite the bad game, the Drew vs. Pittsburgh looked much different than the Drew vs. NE. Maybe I'm the only one, but I guess that's how it works. At least vs. PIT he was making some plays; vs. NE he was not. Hence, I think the improvement, which is being aided by this new system. The more familiar he gets with it, the less his weaknesses become noticable. Still needs to be better, but I think it's a step in the right direction. As far as the "coddling" goes, I'm not sure. Maybe it's because he has done great things in this league, and, given the right tools to work with (which he has minus a good, and I mean GOOD, o-line, which I think the Bills will address), he can do it again. I am not sure, but the Bills must see something.

But that's just me. I said I'd become real unpopular with this stance but that's the way it goes.

[ArcticWildMan]

No I can't see the future. No I don't KNOW for a fact Losman will be worse. But seeing as how about 99% of rookie/inexperienced QB's struggle in a way that their teams don't make the playoffs (even guys like Peyton Manning, who did have guys like Harrison and a decent o-line in his rookie year), it's a damn good bet.

To say the Bills won in spite of Bledsoe is assinine. He wasn't "the reason" they were winning, but he contributed greatly, especially during the winning streak. The Seattle game (I know you are going to point to the 3 INTs but if Drew doesn't have that good a day passing such as being something like 10-12 on 3rd downs, most of them through the air, the Bills don't have nearly that type of offensive output they have. 3 of mcGahee's 4 TD's were from 2 yds out or less, The Bills set all those TD's up through the air), the Miami Game, and the San Francisco game are the big examples. Games like Cincy and Cleveland he didn't have to do anything because the Bills were up by about 20 before the offense set foot on the field. If Bledsoe went something like 6-27 23 yds. 0 TDs 3 INTs and a fumble every game but the Bills still managed to win 9-7, then you could say the Bills were winning in spite of Bledsoe. It wasn't like he was giving games away (and no, he didn't give the Pittsburgh game away either).

Next season will not be a repeat of next year if Bledsoe starts because the entire team, including Bledsoe will be better. I guarantee it (Quote me). Drew has weaknesses, yes. I am not hiding behind him, I am saying he is overcoming them though, thanks to this new system. To me, depite the bad game, the Drew vs. Pittsburgh looked much different than the Drew vs. NE. Maybe I'm the only one, but I guess that's how it works. At least vs. PIT he was making some plays; vs. NE he was not. Hence, I think the improvement, which is being aided by this new system. The more familiar he gets with it, the less his weaknesses become noticable. Still needs to be better, but I think it's a step in the right direction. As far as the "coddling" goes, I'm not sure. Maybe it's because he has done great things in this league, and, given the right tools to work with (which he has minus a good, and I mean GOOD, o-line, which I think the Bills will address), he can do it again. I am not sure, but the Bills must see something.

But that's just me. I said I'd become real unpopular with this stance but that's the way it goes.



I was at the Seattle game and Drew did almost nothing to help us win that game. The TD catch by Evans that was the turning point was a miracle catch. The throw was so damn high, I don't know how Evans made it. I still shake my head over it. Almost every other throw by him was either behind, or over the head of the receiver and whoever it was had to make a leaping catch. I had Seattle fans all around me crowing about how Drew was inaccurate and they were still in it as long as he kept tossing INT's and bad passes.

That game was the PERFECT example of us winning in spite of Drew Bledsoe's best efforts to lose it for us.

[Drive 4 Five]

I'll say it again. This team is going absolutely nowhere with Drew Bledsoe at the helm. Seriously. There is no need to continue wasting time with him. Frankly, if Losman cannot wrest the starting job from Bledsoe given Bledsoe's performance the past three years, then that doesn't speak very well for the Bill's decision to trade up and draft him in the first place. Judging by the way Bledsoe has performed for this team overall, you would think he is the damn rookie. He is making mistakes that no veteran quarterback should be making; staring down receivers, poor foot work and mechanics, lack of vision and awareness of the pass rush, one could go on and on. If he hasn't learned to perfect his craft after 12-13 seasons in the NFL, really a lifetime of playing the position, then what the hell makes anyone think it is going to happen for him now?

[Drive 4 Five]

I fully expect Losman to start the first game of next season because if he cannot beat out Bledsoe, as sorry of a quarterback as Bledsoe is, then God help us all...

[buffalofan19]

I was at the Seattle game and Drew did almost nothing to help us win that game. The TD catch by Evans that was the turning point was a miracle catch. The throw was so damn high, I don't know how Evans made it. I still shake my head over it. Almost every other throw by him was either behind, or over the head of the receiver and whoever it was had to make a leaping catch. I had Seattle fans all around me crowing about how Drew was inaccurate and they were still in it as long as he kept tossing INT's and bad passes.

That game was the PERFECT example of us winning in spite of Drew Bledsoe's best efforts to lose it for us.
The throw was meant to be high. That's what a corner endzone fade route is. Throw it up so the receiver can jump up and grab it.

When you have that type of success rate on 3rd downs, it's more than receivers making amazing catches all the time. Look, I just discovered this board about a month ago. Before I was always posting bb.com. There are Bledsoe "bashers" worse than guys like you and Cynical as far as performance standards go and even THEY said Drew had a very good game that day, despite the INT's. After all 3 INTs he led scoring drives afterwards, and that takes more than just luck (i.e. receivers making highlight-reel catches on every pass). I refuse to employ the term "hater" but people's frustrations get the better of their judgement. Case in point, the Seattle game. Bledsoe helped the cause in that game. Any Bills coach or teammate will tell you that.

[buffalofan19]

Okay, I've posted way too many times in this thread. I'm tired and going too bed. I am not saying Bledsoe is great, but he is still the best option here and now as far as playoffs next year. If people want to build for the future...again... then Losman is the guy to go with. I however, think that this team MUST make the playoffs next year and still think Bledsoe is the best option available. His performace this past year has not been anywhere near stellar, but neither has it been as bad as alot of people here are claiming. I saw good strides in him this year as opposed to 2003, and expect it will get even better next year. Some people say, this shouldn't be necessary for a 13 year vet, and I see and respect that argument, but, as far as I'm concerned, it's playoffs or bust, and if it takes the the redevelopment of a 13 year vet, then so be it.

[Bmax]

Bledsoe is the best option in 2005. Bills fans have always spent too much time debating the qb postion. From feguson to bledsoe.....heck kemp or lamonica.....It's the nature of the postion.....I like losman he has a great arm. He can throw on the run,make plays with his feet and he is a cocky son of a gun....Wyche loves him....Heck he worked him out and said he looked better than eli manning !!!!! With time he will be good ...I say let bledsoe start and if the bills get off to another slow start....say 1-3 pull him .. Heck they might not even wait that long i say if we lose our first two games drew is history....They could even pull him in one of first two games if he is struggling.....It all depends on how losman looks in camp... Paitence follow bills fans we will have to just wait to august to see how the kid looks then maybe we can say he should get the start.

[ArcticWildMan]

Bledsoe is the best option in 2005. Bills fans have always spent too much time debating the qb postion. From feguson to bledsoe.....heck kemp or lamonica.....It's the nature of the postion.....I like losman he has a great arm. He can throw on the run,make plays with his feet and he is a cocky son of a gun....Wyche loves him....Heck he worked him out and said he looked better than eli manning !!!!! With time he will be good ...I say let bledsoe start and if the bills get off to another slow start....say 1-3 pull him .. Heck they might not even wait that long i say if we lose our first two games drew is history....They could even pull him in one of first two games if he is struggling.....It all depends on how losman looks in camp... Paitence follow bills fans we will have to just wait to august to see how the kid looks then maybe we can say he should get the start.

I have no problem with a "wait and see" attitude until training camp. I just can't swallow the blind "Drew at all costs" attitude. If Losman shows up at camp and is the better player, he better damn well start. Drew has done NOTHING to earn his guaranteed starting position next year. 13 year vets are not supposed to need rehabilitating like Bledsoe does.


Oh BTW....how's life been treating you Bmax? Long time no talk bro. Drop me a line via PM as my email has changed since we last talked.

[Mr. Cynical]

Next season will not be a repeat of next year if Bledsoe starts because the entire team, including Bledsoe will be better. I guarantee it (Quote me). Drew has weaknesses, yes. I am not hiding behind him, I am saying he is overcoming them though, thanks to this new system.How many years does Drew get the "once he has the oline, the rbs, the wrs, the system, the coaches, etc." excuse for him TO GET BETTER? It is really frustrating when I read these kinds of comments. I'm not knocking you personally at all...but the fact that you and some others still have this perception is really mind boggling. Every year it is the exact same comment yet he never gets better.

Seriously - go back over his 12 year career and really look at his performance. Look at the number of new systems, players, coaches that he has had during that time. Can you honestly say that the probability is that he will be better? It goes against all logic. Sure I guess it it "possible", just like it is possible I will win Lotto next week. But at some point you have to step back and accept the fact that he is not the guy.

And as others said, I don't buy that JP can't do at least as well as Drew. Drew made some really s*** throws and took alot of big sacks. But has no way to redeem himself outside of a big bomb. If JP tosses some bad throws (which he will do) he can make up for it by using his legs to avoid those sacks. He also has alot better touch from what we've seen so far and I know he'll be better in the short game (and you can quote me on that).

Bottom line is that I don't just want to "make the playoffs" and get bounced in the 1st round. Drew's history in big games is horrendous. We need to see what JP is made of ASAFP so that we don't waste any more time. Nobody has a crystal ball but until he proves otherwise, he could be another Ben. But we won't know unless he plays.

[Dozerdog]

I see a lot of Drew believers saying he should start in '06 which makes me chuckle. His contract is almost over by then for cripe sakes.

Why did we draft a first round player if we are not going to even give him a chance to play until his 3rd year?? Losman starts next season or we wasted the draft pick on him.


Have them battle equally in camp. Winner takes the starting job.


If JP gets the job, I hope the same people pushing hard for "JP Starts at all costs" show some patience.

If we pull a Bengals and go 8-8 or 7-9 next year I hope there won't be the usuall whining, *****ing, and moaning as they call for TD's head, or Mularkey, or Clements, or whatever.

[mybills]

I was at the Seattle game and Drew did almost nothing to help us win that game. The TD catch by Evans that was the turning point was a miracle catch. The throw was so damn high, I don't know how Evans made it. I still shake my head over it. Almost every other throw by him was either behind, or over the head of the receiver and whoever it was had to make a leaping catch. I had Seattle fans all around me crowing about how Drew was inaccurate and they were still in it as long as he kept tossing INT's and bad passes.

That game was the PERFECT example of us winning in spite of Drew Bledsoe's best efforts to lose it for us.
:bf1:
Our D, ST & RB is what kept us winning 99 % of the time. I can't praise a QB that only gives 1 % towards the wins. :down:

[TacklingDummy]

RJ Losman is so good that he couldn't even beat out Shane Mattews for 2nd string QB.

It's gonna be back to the same excuses people used for RJ if R.J. Losman ever starts.

This Defense deserves a chance to win before they are broken up. They don't have 4 years for a QB to finally prove to everyone that he sucks, like what happened with RJ.

[BuffBills333]

RJ Losman is so good that he couldn't even beat out Shane Mattews for 2nd string QB.

It's gonna be back to the same excuses people used for RJ if R.J. Losman ever starts.

This Defense deserves a chance to win before they are broken up. They don't have 4 years for a QB to finally prove to everyone that he sucks, like what happened with RJ.
If you think the defense deserves a chance then go with Losman because clearly as three years of Bledsoe have shown, he gives the Bills no chance at all. He even gave the Patriots no chance. Lucky for them he got injured.

[buffalofan19]

Bottom line is that I don't just want to "make the playoffs" and get bounced in the 1st round. Drew's history in big games is horrendous. We need to see what JP is made of ASAFP so that we don't waste any more time. Nobody has a crystal ball but until he proves otherwise, he could be another Ben. But we won't know unless he plays.
Okay, here's another thing I don't buy. I want the Bills to win the Super Bowl as much as anyone, but they have to get to the playoffs first, and they have to which they haven't been able to do in quite a while. I personally don't feel they will with JP Losman. He will make alot more mistakes, with his legs as well as his arm, next year than people think, like all QB's of his style. I am not saying Bledsoe is great or anything, but this "he can't be worse than Bledsoe" mentality is wrong. My point is based on the fact that Bledsoe did not have as bad a year as people are saying. When he finally had the correct support (McGahee and Evans among others), he was winning games (okay, the team was winnning games with him at QB, for those who want to debate that point). Mularkey and Wyche have helped him alot, and with a year of working with eachother, he will be better. I know it's hard for some people to fathom, but he will (you can quote me on that). Again, I am not saying Bledsoe is a great QB, there are alot of better ones out there, but none of them are available to the Bills. If Losman starts next year, it will be a rebuilding year, because he will have to learn how to hone his skills.

As for the big Ben thing, you're right this could be a repeat, but the odds of that are not very good. First of all, Ben Roethlisberger is not the same type of QB as Losman. He is a pocket passer with some running ability. He also has a phenomenal offensive line, the Bills don't. If Ben had his way he would never leave the pocket, it's just how he is. Losman likes to run with the ball alot (and try to run over defenders too, which will be his downfall if he doesn't stop it. You would think he would have learned his lesson when Troy Vincent broke his leg. But after seeing his outing in the Cleveland game, the only way he's gonna learn is when he faces a hard-hitting top-notch NFL defense), and will have to learn when is the right time to run and the right time to pass. Every mobile QB like Losman has had to learn that (including Michael Vick) and it takes a while to do that. Also, Big Ben comes around once in a Blue moon. The odds of a rookie QB doing this are very small to begin with, and the odds of two of the same class doing that are almost zero. It's not a bet I'm taking, even with Bledsoe at QB. I still consider Losman a rookie because of all the time he missed because of injury (I considered Willis a rookie this year too). In short, Big Ben is a rare exception to the rule, not the rule itself nor is it any type of standard.

Look, like I said in my sig, the Bills NEED to make the playoffs. I don't see it happening with a green QB like that. I did see the Bills almost get there this year with Bledsoe at the helm, and if McGahee had started from week one, they would have made it. I see no reason why they can't get there with Bledsoe at the helm in 2005. I do see reasons why they wouldn't with an inexperienced, somewhat over-confident, and rather reckless QB.

[ArcticWildMan]

Okay, here's another thing I don't buy. I want the Bills to win the Super Bowl as much as anyone, but they have to get to the playoffs first, and they have to which they haven't been able to do in quite a while. I personally don't feel they will with JP Losman. He will make alot more mistakes, with his legs as well as his arm, next year than people think, like all QB's of his style. I am not saying Bledsoe is great or anything, but this "he can't be worse than Bledsoe" mentality is wrong. My point is based on the fact that Bledsoe did not have as bad a year as people are saying. When he finally had the correct support (McGahee and Evans among others), he was winning games (okay, the team was winnning games with him at QB, for those who want to debate that point). ..................


First off, go read my thread about Peyton's first season. In it, you'll see another post that has his record for his career. I think that first year of struggling was well worth it when you see his play now. While you're at it, it might be a good idea to also check out McNabb's record and Dante Culpepper as well. All took their lumps early on, but they are now all stars.

Losman could be the next shining star QB in the league. He could also be the next flop. What good does it do to wait until 2006 to start him? Drew will be retired by then or gone to another team and all our eggs are in one basket. If Losman does indeed flop, we are in deep trouble because we have nobody to fall back on. At that point we are forced to start the QB search all over again and it sets the team back another 2-3 years.

I have to ask...why does this team HAVE TO make the playoffs next season? What good does it do if our only goal is to be just good enough for one season to make the playoffs? Drew's record in big games speaks for itself over 12 years.

Now, if we do make the playoffs in 2005, what about the next year? There will be even more pressure to make the playoffs in 2006. Do we keep pushing Losman's development back because we have to make the playoffs the next year as well? Before you know it, it's 2007 and Losman has been with us 3 years and hasn't started a game. What good does that do? He has two seasons left on his contract and we have no idea if he is worth renewing.

[buffalofan19]

First off, go read my thread about Peyton's first season. In it, you'll see another post that has his record for his career. I think that first year of struggling was well worth it when you see his play now. While you're at it, it might be a good idea to also check out McNabb's record and Dante Culpepper as well. All took their lumps early on, but they are now all stars.


The difference is that the Colts had planned to rebuild that year. They had alot of yung and inexperienced talent they wanted to develop. The Bills do not, nor can they afford another rebuilding year. Defense is continually getting old. It's together for 2005, but Age and Free agency may make it a question mark for 2006. Mc gee and Clements will both be FA's I know. Milloy and Vincent are old so who knows what will happen with them? Fletcher is getting up there in age, plus his contract will be up, Im pretty sure. Adams was signed for 3 years so his contract will be up I think. THe Bills can't afford to wait another year.

The Bills have to make the playoffs for the franchise's own sake. first off they've been out for way too long. The fan base in Buffalo may not hold for much longer. The area continues to get poorer and poorer, and eventually, if the team does not start winning, and fast, it will not be worth the investment for the fans. Plus, if the team does not start winning, when someone else takes over this team (because Ralph will not be around much longer), there will not be much incentive to keep the team in Buffall. Now, I realize you are from Alaska, but, as a Buffalonian, if the Bills leave, this area goes to crap (as if it already hasn't. The Bills are what keeps Buffalo on the map. Some sports writer recently said "If it wasn't for the Bills and Sabres, Buffalo may as well be Utica NY". THis team needs a playoff berth fast to keep up fan interest. Another seson of "wait until next year, we have lots of young talent" (the same thing we were all saying when Rob Johnson was here) won't hold for much longer. I don't just want the Bills to make the playoffs either. I want a Super Bowl, but you have to get there first. Look at the Jets yesterday, San Diego was supposed to beat them pretty good, but they didn't, and they are still alive. Once you get in, anything can happen, but you have to get there first, which I don't think happens with Losman.

[Philagape]

If JP has a 10 percent chance of getting us to the SB, that's still better than zero (Drew)

[Mr. Cynical]

If JP has a 10 percent chance of getting us to the SB, that's still better than zero (Drew)
Si. :mex:

[The_Philster]

If JP has a 10 percent chance of getting us to the SB, that's still better than zero (Drew)

Not saying that Drew will do the same thing...but what kind of chance did they give Mark Rypien? :scratch: