Interesting stats on Peyton's first season

[ArcticWildMan]

26 TD's, 28 INT's, 22 sacks, 56.7 comp %, 71.2 QB rating. Not exactly All-Pro numbers there. I bet Indy fans will say it was worth the growing pains however.

[Mr. Cynical]

Let's see...

1998: 3-13 (Peyton's rookie year)
1999: 13-3
2000: 10-6
2001: 6-10 (Mora's last year...Playoffs?)
2002: 10-6
2003: 12-4
2004: 12-4


Hmmm...nah, that first year of "growing pains" wasn't worth it. :snicker:

[Crisis]

Well, according to you guys, a season is SB our bust.

So, it obviously isn't worth the growing pains if he doesn't win the big one.

[ArcticWildMan]

Well, according to you guys, a season is SB our bust.

So, it obviously isn't worth the growing pains if he doesn't win the big one.


Who said it was a bust if we didn't make the SB? I think all of the Amigos are more than willing to give Losman a season to learn the ropes. What we have been saying is that unless Drew suddenly becomes a new man and leads us to the SB, it's foolish to not let Losman play and start his learning cycle. He could very well be the next Peyton Manning.

[Dozerdog]

Let them battle for it in camp. if Bledsoe sucks (as is the prevailing opinion) and if JP has average skills- then JP should win it easily. If JP can't beat him out, then he's got more development time.

[Mr. Cynical]

Let them battle for it in camp. if Bledsoe sucks (as is the prevailing opinion) and if JP has average skills- then JP should win it easily.
The problem with this is that even if JP wins in camp, we will still be carrying the Baggage of Drew for the season as his backup.

IMHO, the decision has to be made before camp. I don't want any last minute decisions, disruptions, controversy, baggage, etc. screwing up the team. Drew needs to go now.

[Typ0]

The problem with this is that even if JP wins in camp, we will still be carrying the Baggage of Drew for the season as his backup.

IMHO, the decision has to be made before camp. I don't want any last minute decisions, disruptions, controversy, baggage, etc. screwing up the team. Drew needs to go now.

The decision needs to be made before June.

[Mr. Cynical]

The decision needs to be made before June.
Si. :mex:

[mybills]

:hail: Peyton! Kick NE's arse next! :snicker:

[EDS]

Let's see...

1998: 3-13 (Peyton's rookie year)
1999: 13-3
2000: 10-6
2001: 6-10 (Mora's last year...Playoffs?)
2002: 10-6
2003: 12-4
2004: 12-4


Hmmm...nah, that first year of "growing pains" wasn't worth it. :snicker:

Peyton Manning will go down in history as one of the greated quarterbacks of all time - so I don't understand the relevance of these stats. I hope Losman excels as much as anyone but I doubt he came into the league with the same knowledge base as Peyton.

[BAM]

Let them battle for it in camp. if Bledsoe sucks (as is the prevailing opinion) and if JP has average skills- then JP should win it easily. If JP can't beat him out, then he's got more development time.

Excellent, Dozer. If he's good enough to beat out Bledsoe then so be it. I trust Mularkey to make a good decision based on what they do in preseason. Let them battle it out, may the best man win!

[Dozerdog]

The problem with this is that even if JP wins in camp, we will still be carrying the Baggage of Drew for the season as his backup.

IMHO, the decision has to be made before camp. I don't want any last minute decisions, disruptions, controversy, baggage, etc. screwing up the team. Drew needs to go now.
Seriously- what baggage?


There is no evidence of this currently or in the past.

[The_Philster]

Seriously- what baggage?


There is no evidence of this currently or in the past.

:popcorn:

[Dozerdog]

Actually-


Reading post season comments from players, coaches, media-


The only ones who have brought up "Baggage" -"Locker room issues" or other sorts of distractions are message board posters.


Gimmie something concrete.

[Philagape]

I think Drew saying "It's my team" qualifies as baggage

[Mr. Cynical]

Seriously- what baggage?


There is no evidence of this currently or in the past.He was brought in here with a #1 pick and over $21M to date as the "savior". He got a parade as though he had already won the SB for us. Since then he has failed to lead the team or play at the level in which his money and expectations demanded.

You can say whatever you like, I am not going to say you are wrong. IT IS MY OPINION that all of those things, in conjunction with the "my team" comment, all constitute baggage. You feel differently....fine.

[mybills]

I think Drew saying "It's my team" qualifies as baggage
and everyone knows it's mine the big :liar: . :cynic:

[Dozerdog]

I think Drew saying "It's my team" qualifies as baggage
If that's all we have to qualify as baggage, that's pretty weak.

Henry's comments are way more "baggage" like.

[Mr. Cynical]

If that's all we have to qualify as baggage, that's pretty weak.

Henry's comments are way more "baggage" like.
And Henry needs to go as well.

[Dozerdog]

Flutie's backstabbing in an SI article is baggage. Guys picking sides in the locker room is baggage.

So far, there isn't anything out there that says Bledsoe in a backup role is going to be detrimental or a locker room cancer.


If there was, I'd feel different. But I also don't want to be like Chicago and eliminate QBs just so their prized draft pick has no competition. They ****ed up their entire season and now have Jeff George :rofl: JP gets hurt and we are screwed.

[Mr. Cynical]

JP gets hurt and we are screwed.
Not if we get a capable backup.

[Dozerdog]

Anyone in mind?

Brunell?
Warner?
Garcia?

:rofl:

[Mr. Cynical]

Anyone in mind?

Brunell?
Warner?
Garcia?

:rofl:

A.B.D. is available.

[The_Philster]

A.B.D. is available.

and you say you don't hate Drew? :shakeno: :liar:

[Mr. Cynical]

and you say you don't hate Drew? :shakeno: :liar:
:rofl:

And the wobbling, bleeding fighter swings widly at his target, only to hit air yet again.

[Dozerdog]

Well-

I'm glad we have a rational plan.

[Dozerdog]

26 TD's, 28 INT's, 22 sacks, 56.7 comp %, 71.2 QB rating. Not exactly All-Pro numbers there. I bet Indy fans will say it was worth the growing pains however.
I don't think they had any other options.

[ArcticWildMan]

I don't think they had any other options.

They had options. They chose to take a chance and it paid off.

Indy had made the playoffs in 1995 and 1996 with Jim Harbaugh. He also played for them in 1997, so they had no reason to panic considering they had a playoff caliber QB on the roster. They went 3-13 in 1997 and drafted Peyton afterwards. They took a chance on Peyton in 1998 and the rest is history.

I'd almost compare their past situation to ours. We have an older QB that is adequate but hardly a star just like they did back then. We have a young QB with all the potential in the world. Sadly, that is where we differ from them. The next franchise QB is sitting on the bench yet we are infatuated with a QB who has no record of winning big games and survives off his name and the fact he has played for 12 mediocre years in the NFL. Any other team would have cut him and moved on.

[Dozerdog]

Wasn't Harbaugh injured in 1997 eventually knocking him out of football?


I though that was one of the causes of the slide.

[Dozerdog]

They wound up with the #1 overall pick, and I don't beleive they had a healthy Vet as an option. The team wasn't considered playoff caliber, having been somewhat dismantled after the AFC Championship game in 1996.

[Dozerdog]

I just looked it up- Harbaugh signed with Baltimore as a FA in 1998 - so I guess the Colts only had Kelly Holcomb as an option.

[ArcticWildMan]

They wound up with the #1 overall pick, and I don't beleive they had a healthy Vet as an option. The team wasn't considered playoff caliber, having been somewhat dismantled after the AFC Championship game in 1996.

Excuses. Excuses. Always excuses why somebody else could take the chance yet we can't.

That's why we haven't been in the playoffs in years and will continue to miss them.

[ArcticWildMan]

I just looked it up- Harbaugh signed with Baltimore as a FA in 1998 - so I guess the Colts only had Kelly Holcomb as an option.

And Kelly Holcomb was the only FA QB available that year? :rolleyes:


Quit making excuses. The Colts took a risk and it paid off in spades. Something you're not willing to do. You'll accept mediocre play from a washed up choker because it's the easy way out.

[YardRat]

26 TD's, 28 INT's, 22 sacks, 56.7 comp %, 71.2 QB rating. Not exactly All-Pro numbers there. I bet Indy fans will say it was worth the growing pains however.
Rick Mirer, 1993 - 12 TD's, 17 INT's, 47 sacks, 56.4 completion %, 67.0 QB rating. Team records-6/10, 6/10, 8/8, 7/9, 8/8...

I won't even mention Ryan Leaf, the "other" QB drafted in the first in '93, or Dan McGwire, the "other" Seattle first-rounder that Mirer replaced.

[ArcticWildMan]

Rick Mirer, 1993 - 12 TD's, 17 INT's, 47 sacks, 56.4 completion %, 67.0 QB rating. Team records-6/10, 6/10, 8/8, 7/9, 8/8...



Gee what do you know...you just about profiled Drew's stats with us.

:rofl:

[Dozerdog]

Whos making excuses amigo?


Who would your Choice be at QB if you finished 3-13 the previous year???

Your #1 pick or a scrap pile QB? I'd pick Manning if I were Bill Polian ( and he did).
All I stated was that the Colts really didn't have many options. Boy you guys really are off the wall with this QB stuff.

Are you comparing a 3-13 Colts team with this Bills team?

[ArcticWildMan]

Whos making excuses amigo?




Are you comparing a 2-14 Colts team with this Bills team?

Nope. We are one step below them. At least the Colts had 2 years of playoff appearances before the one bad season. We haven't sniffed the playoffs in years.

[Dozerdog]

:rofl:


the team won 3 games the previous year. If they were playoff caliber in 1997 and 1998 as they were in 1996, I highly doubt they would have sacreficed a winning playoff season to play Manning.


Hell, they would not have had an opportunity to get Manning.


But if you want to compare the 1998 Colts to the 2004 Bills and say the Colts were a better team then you might be on an island on that one.

[YardRat]

Gee what do you know...you just about profiled Drew's stats with us.

:rofl:
I knew that was coming as soon as I posted....too predictable. My point is a first-round quarterback is just as likely to go bust as be an all-pro, if not more likely to go bust....been proven too many times over the history of the NFL.

What's yours? Losman is the next Peyton Manning? Losman is guaranteed to be successful because he was snatched in the first round?

Some of you are so blinded by your disgust with Drew that you refuse to see the other side of the issue...that Losman's going to fall on his face and make the QB issue an even larger one.

If you get your wish, Drew gets cut, and Losman leads this same team to a losing record next year, maybe even the year after, and never pans out to be a serviceable starter in this league (especially when the Bills appear to have most of the other pieces in place to make a run next year) what are you going to ***** about then?

[ArcticWildMan]

:rofl:


the team won 3 games the previous year. If they were playoff caliber in 1997 and 1998 as they were in 1996, I highly doubt they would have sacreficed a winning playoff season to play Manning.


Hell, they would not have had an opportunity to get Manning.


But if you want to compare the 1998 Colts to the 2004 Bills and say the Colts were a better team then you might be on an island on that one.

Actually, I'm comparing last year's team. This season just highlighted how foolish it is to keep waiting for Drew to deliver this team to the promised land. Maybe if we wait a few more seasons, we can eliminate any doubt. :rolleyes:

[ArcticWildMan]

I knew that was coming as soon as I posted....too predictable. My point is a first-round quarterback is just as likely to go bust as be an all-pro, if not more likely to go bust....been proven too many times over the history of the NFL.

What's yours? Losman is the next Peyton Manning? Losman is guaranteed to be successful because he was snatched in the first round?

Some of you are so blinded by your disgust with Drew that you refuse to see the other side of the issue...that Losman's going to fall on his face and make the QB issue an even larger one.

If you get your wish, Drew gets cut, and Losman leads this same team to a losing record next year, maybe even the year after, and never pans out to be a serviceable starter in this league (especially when the Bills appear to have most of the other pieces in place to make a run next year) what are you going to ***** about then?



And what do you do if we wait till 2007 to give Losman his chance and Drew is retired and Losman stinks up the joint for 2-3 years? Then we are REALLY screwed because now we have NOBODY to step in and we have to start over yet again looking for a new QB.

It's easy to stay with a known factor. Too easy, IMO. The teams that took chances on QB's are now the best teams in the league. Just look at who is playing in the post season this year and who is QB'ing each team.

[Dozerdog]

Actually, I'm comparing last year's team. This season just highlighted how foolish it is to keep waiting for Drew to deliver this team to the promised land. Maybe if we wait a few more seasons, we can eliminate any doubt. :rolleyes:


OK- there lies the confusion.


I thought your original post was an endorsement of the Colts playing Peyton Manning as a rookie. Thus the comparison of the Colts to today's Bills - as this would be the team JP Losman would be piloting.


All I added was that the dreadful Colts had not much choice- since they were going to lose with anyone. A choice I would have also made if i were the Colts. The Bills did have a choice, since they had playoff talent on the roster, and a vet QB.


My bad for misinterpereting.

[Dozerdog]

And what do you do if we wait till 2007 to give Losman his chance and Drew is retired and Losman stinks up the joint for 2-3 years? Then we are REALLY screwed because now we have NOBODY to step in and we have to start over yet again looking for a new QB.

It's easy to stay with a known factor. Too easy, IMO. The teams that took chances on QB's are now the best teams in the league. Just look at who is playing in the post season this year and who is QB'ing each team.
Here's a novel Idea-


how's about letting them compete for the job? If Bledsoe sucks then JP should win the job. If he can't beat out a sucky QB then why give him the job?


Seems simple enough

[ArcticWildMan]

Here's a novel Idea-


how's about letting them compete for the job? If Bledsoe sucks then JP should win the job. If he can't beat out a sucky QB then why give him the job?


Seems simple enough

And that I agree with. I just can't stomach those people who are saying we HAVE TO let Drew start and the hell with Losman because he's a rookie.

[The_Philster]

And that I agree with. I just can't stomach those people who are saying we HAVE TO let Drew start and the hell with Losman because he's a rookie.

Honestly...who's been saying that? :idunno: Personally, I'm in favor of JP starting because we need to get him ready sooner rather than later but he shouldn't have the job handed to him...he's got an entire offseason and damn well better be spending it in Buffalo getting ready

[Mr. Cynical]

And Kelly Holcomb was the only FA QB available that year? :rolleyes:


Quit making excuses. The Colts took a risk and it paid off in spades. Something you're not willing to do. You'll accept mediocre play from a washed up choker because it's the easy way out.
:bf1:

[Dozerdog]

And that I agree with. I just can't stomach those people who are saying we HAVE TO let Drew start and the hell with Losman because he's a rookie.


Absolutely.


But JP's gotta be better. I'd Rather go 10-6 with Bledsoe at QB again than go 5-11 or 6-10 just so he gets "experience". I want the guy who will give us the best opportunity for the playoffs. Once you are in anything can happen.

If the playoffs are not attainable then by all means get the kid in there.

[Mr. Cynical]

I'd Rather go 10-6 with Bledsoe at QB again than go 5-11 or 6-10 just so he gets "experience". I want the guy who will give us the best opportunity for the playoffs. Once you are in anything can happen.

If the playoffs are not attainable then by all means get the kid in there.Again, this assumes JP will give the Bills a losing record. How many winning seasons has Drew produced since being here? One. And we barely eeked it out this year at 9-7, and the wins were largely due to ST and D, both ranked in the top 5. Where was the offense ranked? That's why there is no supporting evidence that the team will do any worse with JP than with Drew. Drew was not the strength of the team by any stretch of the imagination.

[Dozerdog]

Again, this assumes JP will give the Bills a losing record. .
I'm not assuming anything.


If JP is better, he will win the job in open competition. If the Bills were 9-7 with 3-4 close losses, they should do the same with an equall or better QB.

If he's not able to beat Bledsoe out for the Job, (In Drew's sucky state) then I would think he's not good enough and would struggle getting the team to playoff contention. .

[justasportsfan]

Well, according to you guys, a season is SB our bust.

So, it obviously isn't worth the growing pains if he doesn't win the big one.We're not going to a SB w/ Drew for sure anyways. Might as well move towards it by giving Losman the experience he needs. Besides all Losman has to do is play caretaker for his first year and the rest of the team will take us to the playoffs.

[The_Philster]

We're not going to a SB w/ Drew for sure anyways. Might as well move towards it by giving Losman the experience he needs. Besides all Losman has to do is play caretaker for his first year and the rest of the team will take us to the playoffs.

you're 100% sure of that? :scratch: Any chance you have the winning numbers for Wednesday, old buddy? :buddies:

[justasportsfan]

Anyone in mind?

Brunell?
Warner?
Garcia?

:rofl:Flutie. :up:

[The_Philster]

Flutie. :up:

I don't know whether to :roflmao: or :puke:

[ItsintheOffense]

Peyton has always been a god to us indy fans

[justasportsfan]

you're 100% sure of that? :scratch: Any chance you have the winning numbers for Wednesday, old buddy? :buddies:
Yes, I'm pretty sure. If we didn't have a qb that blows huge games and simply played caretaker we'd be in the playoffs now.

Let's see, our D and ST is better than most teams that are in the playoffs. Our rushing game was ranked 7th in the league and would've been better had WM started earlier. Our Pass O is ranked 26th and Garcia has a better qb rating than Drew.

[justasportsfan]

I don't know whether to :roflmao: or :puke:He's a better qb than Drew and cost less. We made playoff twice and he didn't have the luxury of having an OL and a rb. Don't worry Johnsonite, it's not gonna happen , but one can only dream. :D.

[Michael82]

Here's a novel Idea-


how's about letting them compete for the job? If Bledsoe sucks then JP should win the job. If he can't beat out a sucky QB then why give him the job?


Seems simple enough
That's exactly what I want. IF JP Losman plays as well as I hope he does, and if he beats out the crappy QB that we supposedly have...I'm fine with Losman starting. He earned the spot. He shouldn't be handed the job without competition. IMO, he should win it the same way that Willis McGahee won his job. :up:

[The_Philster]

Yes, I'm pretty sure. If we didn't have a qb that blows huge games and simply played caretaker we'd be in the playoffs now.


People were "pretty sure" Mark Rypien would never QB a team to a meaningful win, weren't they?:scratch:


Anyway, where's my numbers? :mad:

[The_Philster]

He's a better qb than Drew and cost less. We made playoff twice and he didn't have the luxury of having an OL and a rb. Don't worry Johnsonite, it's not gonna happen , but one can only dream. :D.Technically, in 99, we made the playoffs in spite of the midget's screw-ups...constantly tucking the ball in and running with it when he had time to throw it to wide open WRs. The Giants game and the Ravens game are 2 that stand out in my mind...as far as RB, I'm still pissed at Bishop Haris for that...he completely ****ed up a solid back in Antowain :mad:

[justasportsfan]

Technically, in 99, we made the playoffs in spite of the midget's screw-ups...constantly tucking the ball in and running with it when he had time to throw it to wide open WRs. The Giants game and the Ravens game are 2 that stand out in my mind...as far as RB, I'm still pissed at Bishop Haris for that...he completely ****ed up a solid back in Antowain :mad: I'm not saying he should be our starter but I'll take him as a back-up over Drew any day.


Two playoff appearances inspite of Flutie in his first 2 yrs. How many years has Drew been here? We NEVER made playoffs inspite of Drew. Get it?

Understand one thing Flutiwe is nothing but a back-up QB, isn't it quite pathetic that we made playoffs w/ a back-up and yet nothing w/ Drew and yet Drew has a way better supporting cast?

[The_Philster]

Two playoff appearances inspite of him. I said 1...his play deteriorated in 99 but he actually seemed to play better in 98

We NEVER made playoffs inspite of Drew. Get it?

Understand one thing Flutiwe is nothing but a back-up QB, isn't it quite pathetic that we made playoffs w/ a back-up and yet nothing w/ Drew and yet Drew has a way better supporting cast
2002...very good offense, pathetic defense
2003...very good defense, awful offense
2004...great defense, super special teams, good but inconsistent offense

1998...great defense, good offense
1999...great defense, mediocre offense, awful special teams

in 2004, we had our best supporting cast so you do have a point, but keep in mind our defense was solid every year but 2002 so Flutie wasn't exactly surrounded by slackers


I'm still waiting on those numbers :mad:

[DaBills]

The battle it out in camp theory — where Drew looks good, is releasing the ball really quick, making sharp rea...

:roflmao:

Sorry, I can't go on without laughing.


With the success the team had in the second half of the year, I predict TD and MM will be sold on Drew as their QB, no matter who looks good in camp.


RJ looked really good in camp too.

[justasportsfan]

Here's Fluties nos.

PASSING
CP/AT YDS TD INT
D. Flutie 13/22 199 1 0

RUSHING
ATT YDS TD LG
D. Flutie 3 25 1 20

Granted it was against KC who's D is 2nd to the worst, what was Drew's nos. against Pitts 3nd and 3rd string D? Pretty sad when a back-up has better nos. than our starter who can't do crap against a 3rd string D.

[Dozerdog]

The battle it out in camp theory — where Drew looks good, is releasing the ball really quick, making sharp rea...

:roflmao:

Sorry, I can't go on without laughing.


With the success the team had in the second half of the year, I predict TD and MM will be sold on Drew as their QB, no matter who looks good in camp.


RJ looked really good in camp too.
You can't figure out if JP Losman is a good QB in 4 preseason games, giving him time with the first unit?

Who cares how Bledsoe looks- It's how JP looks.

Again I'll ask- what evidence is there that this coach and GM will play one guy instead of the better guy? Even after spending all those picks on JP- you're convinced he will just sit him "just because" they have Bledsoe?

[justasportsfan]

I said 1...his play deteriorated in 99 but he actually seemed to play better in 98

2002...very good offense, pathetic defense
2003...very good defense, awful offense
2004...great defense, super special teams, good but inconsistent offense

1998...great defense, good offense
1999...great defense, mediocre offense, awful special teams

in 2004, we had our best supporting cast so you do have a point, but keep in mind our defense was solid every year but 2002 so Flutie wasn't exactly surrounded by slackers


I'm still waiting on those numbers :mad:haha! Very good offense in 2002? For 1 half of the season. Just so you know, although Drew made probowl that year, so did Flutie in his first year. :tongue:


1998 we had a good offense? How so? Running by committee? wasn't Winfield pratically a rookie?

As you can see Phil, , you haven't even come up w/ enough reason to say that Drew is better than Flutie and you forget you are comparing Drew to a carreer back-up qb w/ weaker arm and stands no higher than Drews shoulder :lol: .


W/ Flutie there a 2 playoff appearance That means the score is 2-0 and Drew has 1 yr. more w/ the team.

It's funny how you like qb's that are sack magnets and make stupid decisions :snicker: Wys was a huge Johnsonite but at least he learned his lesson w/ Drew.

[The_Philster]

haha! Very good offense in 2002? For 1 half of the season. Just so you know, although Drew made probowl that year, so did Flutie in his first year. :tongue::huh: I know for sure I said Flutie played well in 98
1998 we had a good offense? How so? Running by committee? wasn't Winfield pratically a rookie?:ill: I tried to forget that running back by committe stupidity...but what does Winfield have to do with offense?
As you can see Phil, , you haven't even come up w/ enough reason to say that Drew is better than Flutie and you forget you are comparing Drew to a carreer back-up qb w/ weaker arm and stands no higher than Drews shoulder :lol:W/ Flutie there a 2 playoff appearance That means the score is 2-0 and Drew has 1 yr. more w/ the team.

It's funny how you like qb's that are sack magnets and make stupid decisions :snicker: Wys was a huge Johnsonite but at least he learned his lesson w/ Drew. Why isn't Flutie starting? Point is, anyone who's actually read my posts knows I've complained about Drew's play....so what's your point exactly again?


:mad: you're just trying to avoid giving me those lotto numbers

[FTG]

Rick Mirer, 1993 - 12 TD's, 17 INT's, 47 sacks, 56.4 completion %, 67.0 QB rating. Team records-6/10, 6/10, 8/8, 7/9, 8/8...

I won't even mention Ryan Leaf, the "other" QB drafted in the first in '93, or Dan McGwire, the "other" Seattle first-rounder that Mirer replaced.

So whats your point? Losman might be a bust so we better not ever play him? We won't know till he plays

[justasportsfan]

:huh: I know for sure I said Flutie played well in 98:ill: I know you did but my point was that even his what you call a bad year, we made playoffs. We're still waiting on Drew.



I tried to forget that running back by committe stupidity...but what does Winfield have to do with offense? Flutie didn't have the luxury of an experienced Winfield and Drew did and yet we didn't make playoffs w/ Drew? Drew's had more weapons. Comprende?



Why isn't Flutie starting? Point is, anyone who's actually read my posts knows I've complained about Drew's play....so what's your point exactly again? Flutie isn't starting because he's a back-up and Drew is playing like one and I'd rather have DF than Drew for a back-up. Cheaper and more efficient.

My point? You were the one who responded and made fun of me wanting Flutie over Drew. I was just defending my statement. :winkpunch

:mad: you're just trying to avoid giving me those lotto numbers that's because I got my ticket and when I win I would have to spilt the prize w/ you. :nono: Don't worry , I'm not selfish, I'll buy you your own pinto and bowling ball and I'll buy you next years Jill calendar. The one you have now is probably sticky. :funny:

[Michael82]

I know you did but my point was that even his what you call a bad year, we made playoffs. We're still waiting on Drew.

Flutie didn't have the luxury of an experienced Winfield and Drew did and yet we didn't make playoffs w/ Drew? Drew's had more weapons. Comprende?

Flutie isn't starting because he's a back-up and Drew is playing like one and I'd rather have DF than Drew for a back-up. Cheaper and more efficient.

My point? You were the one who responded and made fun of me wanting Flutie over Drew. I was just defending my statement. :winkpunch that's because I got my ticket and when I win I would have to spilt the prize w/ you. :nono: Don't worry , I'm not selfish, I'll buy you your own pinto and bowling ball and I'll buy you next years Jill calendar. The one you have now is probably sticky. :funny:
Flutie isn't even the backup...isn't he the 3rd stringer? :gag:

[The_Philster]

Flutie didn't have the luxury of an experienced Winfield and Drew did and yet we didn't make playoffs w/ Drew? Drew's had more weapons. Comprende?Flutie didn't have Winfield with experience, but he did have the greatest sack master to ever play in the NFL
Flutie isn't starting because he's a back-up and Drew is playing like one and I'd rather have DF than Drew for a back-up. Cheaper and more efficient.He'd have to learn a new system ....how do we know he could perform well if called upon :scratch:

:winkpunch that's because I got my ticket and when I win I would have to spilt the prize w/ you. :nono: :mad:

[YardRat]

Just look at who is playing in the post season this year and who is QB'ing each team.
Pitt-Big Ben-back-up elevated to starter due to injury. Gee...if Cowher is such a genius why didn't he just cut Maddox before the season started?

NE-Brady-See above

NYJ-Pennington-drafted to replace Vinnie

Indy-Manning-drafted by the worst team in football the previous year.

Philly-McNabb-drafted because Philly had NO QB at the time

Atlanta-Vick-No QB, crappy team

St Louis-Bulger-Warner wasn't cut to make room...Bulger took over after injury and proved himself.

Minnesota-Culpepper-Closest comparison to JP/Bledsoe you can make...Green rolled the dice, cut an experienced vet and started Daunte his second year.

Other than MAYBE Minnesota, how can you compare any of those to the Bills situation? Which teams above actually cut an established, serviceable, veteran on a near-play-off team and just handed over the reins to an unproven second-year QB?

[YardRat]

So whats your point? Losman might be a bust so we better not ever play him? We won't know till he plays
My point is you just don't hand the team over to Losman carte blanche.

Keep both JP and Drew. Whoever wins the camp battle is the starter. If Drew starts, be a little quicker with the hook and get JP in there. Hell, even add a few plays on a weekly basis specifically designed for Losman to get him into the game in certain situations regardless of how well or poorly Drew is playing.

Having both QB's on the roster simply gives the team the best chance for success. Why put all your eggs in one basket?

[Michael82]

My point is you just don't hand the team over to Losman carte blanche.

Keep both JP and Drew. Whoever wins the camp battle is the starter. If Drew starts, be a little quicker with the hook and get JP in there. Hell, even add a few plays on a weekly basis specifically designed for Losman to get him into the game in certain situations regardless of how well or poorly Drew is playing.

Having both QB's on the roster simply gives the team the best chance for success. Why put all your eggs in one basket?
Good post! I totally agree. :up:

[ArcticWildMan]

Good post! I totally agree. :up:


LOL!!! Just once I'd like to see you formulate an original idea all by yourself and post it rather than always going "I agree :up:" or "great post :up:" when somebody else posts something.

[Michael82]

LOL!!! Just once I'd like to see you formulate an original idea all by yourself and post it rather than always going "I agree :up:" or "great post :up:" when somebody else posts something.
I have been posting my opinion and thoughts a bunch of different times and it's the same damn opinion each time. So why repeat myself a billion times like you amigos? It's easier to just say I agree. Or good post. :up:

:rolleyes:

[ArcticWildMan]

I have been posting my opinion and thoughts a bunch of different times and it's the same damn opinion each time. So why repeat myself a billion times like you amigos? It's easier to just say I agree. Or good post. :up:

:rolleyes:


LMAO!!!!!!

[The_Philster]

I have been posting my opinion and thoughts a bunch of different times and it's the same damn opinion each time. So why repeat myself a billion times like you amigos? It's easier to just say I agree. Or good post. :up:

:rolleyes:

Because not repeating yourself to the amount that causes people to get sick of it isn't the way the amigos do it...so it has to be wrong

[Typ0]

Here's the thing about our "crapy QB". He's got a lot of skills and abilities...it's what he does on game-day that is causing the problem. Sometimes he does not even show up. When we get behind...he's out there like a deer in headlights. And he gives games away. He is a 12 year vet...should beat out JP for the job. But then we will be left with the same old Drew on game day. I'm not basing any opinion on how well he can perform in practice or training camp--with Drew we have the evidence in his play the last three seasons we don't need to look at his skills in practice. In the past three season's, he has been our starting QB. We have flirted with being a good offense...but those runs were all against the losers in the league. We have a tough schedule next season. We will not make the playoffs with DB at the helm because he tanks no less than half of the big games he plays in.

I'll say it again...the evidence about Drew's performance is based on what he has done here the past three seasons, not what he will do in training camp next season. It's time to accept Drew is not the QB that is going to lead this team into the promised land. Sure there is no guarantee that someone else is that person either...but we should all know it isn't going to be drew based on previous experience. Since we know Drew is not that person...why bother sticking with him just in hopes of making the playoffs? It sure sounds like a complete waste of a season to me. This season we needed to go with Drew and give him his chance. We have now learned what he has to give us...it was not a waste of a season because we gained that knowledge. Now do the right thing, take a little hit and get him out of here.

[justasportsfan]

Flutie isn't even the backup...isn't he the 3rd stringer? :gag:that's even makes Drew look worse compared to a 3rd stringer :lol:

[justasportsfan]

Flutie didn't have Winfield with experience, but he did have the greatest sack master to ever play in the NFL:Both Flutie and Drew had good D's so there isn't anything to discuss about both D's but I would take this years d over the D back then . Let's stick to the offensive support both qb's had/have. Drew can't do squat.



He'd have to learn a new system ....how do we know he could perform well if called upon :scratch::mad:we don't know but we sure know that Drew sucks in this system that was designed to help him succeed and yet he's below average.

Flutie
Year Team G Cmp Att Pct Yds Yds/Att TD Int Sck Rtg

1998 BUF 13 202 354 57.1 2711 7.7 20 11 12 87.4
1999 BUF 15 264 478 55.2 3171 6.6 19 16 26 75.1
2000 BUF 11 132 231 57.1 1700 7.4 8 3 10 86.5

Drew
Year Team G Cmp Att Pct Yds Yds/Att TD Int Sck Rtg
2002 BUF 16 375 610 61.5 4359 7.1 24 15 54 86.0
2003 BUF 16 274 471 58.2 2860 6.1 11 12 49 73.0
2004 BUF 16 256 450 56.9 2932 6.5 20 16 37 76.6


As you can see Drew's nos. are not any better than Flutie and yet, he's had better supporting cast and NO playoff appearance to speak of.

I am NOT a Flutie fan but it's sad to think that although you keep blasting the midget, Drew is no better when you compare them both. Drew's had 3 season's where the rb ran for over 1000 yds.


Face it Phil. your Boy Drew can barely even match up w/ a midget. You keep saying it's a team sport and yet the TEAm made playoffs w/ him. Our 26th ranked passing game is what kept us from playoffs. Guess who's the weakest link?

[Dozerdog]

LOL!!! Just once I'd like to see you formulate an original idea all by yourself and post it rather than always going "I agree :up:" or "great post :up:" when somebody else posts something.
What's wrong with agreeing?

I've seen you and many others do the same thing.

[helmetguy]

What's wrong with agreeing?

I've seen you and many others do the same thing.
Would you call that "AmigoGroupThink?"

[Michael82]

What's wrong with agreeing?

I've seen you and many others do the same thing.
Thank you. He has no problem calling me out...but it's okay for Cynical and the Haters to high five eachother and massage eachother's uhhhh....egos.

[justasportsfan]

Thank you. He has no problem calling me out...but it's okay for Cynical and the Haters to high five eachother and massage eachother's uhhhh....egos.Good post :bf1:

[Michael82]

Good post :bf1:
:rofl:

[The_Philster]

Face it Phil. your Boy Drewmy boy? You mean the one I hope to see get beat out for the starters job by JP next year? That one? You know the lack of reading of my posts really hurts the argument that any of you guys have...I know you're brighter than that, man :shakeno:

[Mr. Cynical]

Here's the thing about our "crapy QB". He's got a lot of skills and abilities...it's what he does on game-day that is causing the problem. Sometimes he does not even show up. When we get behind...he's out there like a deer in headlights. And he gives games away. He is a 12 year vet...should beat out JP for the job. But then we will be left with the same old Drew on game day. I'm not basing any opinion on how well he can perform in practice or training camp--with Drew we have the evidence in his play the last three seasons we don't need to look at his skills in practice. In the past three season's, he has been our starting QB. We have flirted with being a good offense...but those runs were all against the losers in the league. We have a tough schedule next season. We will not make the playoffs with DB at the helm because he tanks no less than half of the big games he plays in.

I'll say it again...the evidence about Drew's performance is based on what he has done here the past three seasons, not what he will do in training camp next season. It's time to accept Drew is not the QB that is going to lead this team into the promised land. Sure there is no guarantee that someone else is that person either...but we should all know it isn't going to be drew based on previous experience. Since we know Drew is not that person...why bother sticking with him just in hopes of making the playoffs? It sure sounds like a complete waste of a season to me. This season we needed to go with Drew and give him his chance. We have now learned what he has to give us...it was not a waste of a season because we gained that knowledge. Now do the right thing, take a little hit and get him out of here.:10:

That was really well put. Perfect post. I want to hear a direct response to this from the DLC and will keep bumping it until they do.

[DaBills]

You can't figure out if JP Losman is a good QB in 4 preseason games, giving him time with the first unit?

Who cares how Bledsoe looks- It's how JP looks.

Again I'll ask- what evidence is there that this coach and GM will play one guy instead of the better guy? Even after spending all those picks on JP- you're convinced he will just sit him "just because" they have Bledsoe?

You're missing my point. I would like to see them start JP because they gave up those picks, absolutely, but TD's and GW's, and now MM's past history so far goes against picking who the fans want and start their own pick.

I'm not 'convinced' he'll do anything. I said predicted. And that's based on my previous dissapointments with their choice of starters. TD won't surpise me at this point by sticking with Drew. I don't feel they are ready to give up on Drew, because of what hasn't been said. If the future is now with JP, why did JP not get any meaningful PT against the **** teams we played?

He started every game even when he sucked this year. He restructured to stay here. His agent or him haven't made any overtures about leaving, (like you'd find on oither teams where QB's talk about leaving).

You don't think that that may indicate they aren't pulling the plug on Drew just yet? Someone either loves this guy at 1BD or has blinders on. Maybe both. I hope you're right about JP starting, but what makes you think beyond 4 meaningless games and some mini-camps that they'll turn it over to JP?

[Mr. Cynical]

Let's see...

RJ looked good in camp.
Ryan Leaf looked good in camp.
Jeff George looked good in camp.
Rick Mirer looked good in camp.

Yep, looking good in camp is a great way to determine a QB's success in real games.

The only way to know how good a QB is, is to play them in the regular season. Period. End of story.

[DaBills]

Good post :bf1:


I agree!

[justasportsfan]

my boy? You mean the one I hope to see get beat out for the starters job by JP next year? That one? You know the lack of reading of my posts really hurts the argument that any of you guys have...I know you're brighter than that, man :shakeno::rofl: Was justa playin w/ you Phil. It worked. I still don't know why you keep defending him though. If he beats out JP , WE'RE DOOMED. Pats will own us and so will Saban and the fins.