Nate: Best Bills DB Ever?

[juice]

Is Nate Clements the most skilled DB ever to wear a Bills Uni?

Is he worth Champ type money in Free Agency.. Is he a worth top 3 lockdown corner Money as a FA?

Chris Berman said he should've been in the Pro Bowl, what corners had a better year coverage wise?

[NapalmDeath]

Well, considering he personally cost the Bills a W against the Jags.... ok

Other than that, I think he is in the upper class of CB's. Top 3? Possibly. Top 5 ? More realistic.

I hate to say it, but I really think that this year (2005) is Nate's last year in a Bills uniform. And that really sucks for us Bills fans.

[The_Philster]

Butch Byrd
Nate Odomes to name a few ahead of him...he hasn't played long enough to be mentioned as the greatest, IMO

[YardRat]

Byrd was the best.

Tony Greene and Mario Clark were pretty good, also.

We seem to have a recent history of losing corners...build them up and watch them leave...It'd be nice if one stayed here.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Robert James was the best Bills CB ever.

Butch Byrd? :eek:

[Pride]

LOL Nate as the best? Hardly! Top 5 DB in the league?? HARDLY!

Nate is an average to above average corner in the league. He needs to get his **** straight before he is even considered for the top 10. Hell, New England has 2 of the best although they are both on IR.

[The King]

I think Lawyer is the best DB we have right now.

[kgun12]

No way is Nate even in the top 10 all time Bills.

One of the best ever was Derick Broughs. (sp) He was a great cover guy that hit like a truck. He was here during the early part of the Bills SB runs. He had a spinal problem that ended his career.

[eyedog]

Not in the top-10 ????? What league were you watching this year ?
Please list these ten corners who are CURRENTLY better than Clements, not ones that are supposedly all-world but are not, and are living off reps.

Derrick Burroughs was good but the injury cut his career short. Similar player to Clements but Clements is better imo.
Clark was another big corner and very good.
James was the best.
Clements is better than Odoms right now.
Tony Greene was a safety.
And every gm in football would take Clements over Milloy as of today.
How is he not a top -10 Bills corner of all-time ?

[Earthquake Enyart]

And nobody has even mentioned Booker Edgerson.

[The King]

If you include safeties I would say there are at least 20 DB's who are much better than nate probably more.

[eyedog]

Safetys are not corners. They can't cover like corners. They are not as important as corners. Thats why safeties {most} don't make the $$$$ corners do and are really not comparable.

[The King]

The thread says DB's which include safeties.

They are not as important as corners huh? Look how good our D-backfield was with Pearson, Coy and Izel? Its just as easy to exploit a bad safety as it is a corner.

[eyedog]

Thats right, a good corner is more valuable than a good safety.
Like a good o-tackle is more valuable than a guard.
A premier pass rusher is more valuable than a premier d-tackle.

Do you need me to explain it any further ?

[redeye5]

you mean Nate Odoms?????????
http://www.autograph-cards.com/Cards/BigCards/030222.jpg

[buffalofan19]

I've been a fan since the 2nd Super Bowl (age 6, when I was first old enough to really understand what football was), and I have not seen a better Corner than Nate. Winfield was good, but Nate could make just as many plays and he could hold on to the ball for an INT. I saw Odoms play and I can't remember anything really that really stood out in his play, but maybe it was because I was too young to appreciate good corner play.:D

[THATHURMANATOR]

Nate was Great.

[The King]

Who protects all of the corners from getting their asses burned? That premier corner on the otherside of the field? Nope. A good safety can bail the whole defensive squad out of a jam. A good corner can lock down his side of the field but is respondsible for far less than the safety.

Look how Dawkins has saved Phillys secondary. Or Harrison in NE. Look what happened to us early in the season. I think corner is a huge position but your safety is your last line of defense.

[CuseBilzFan]

Nate is the man no doubt. I think he is worth the money.

[Patrick76777]

Heard this stat on the radio yesterday. In thier first 4 years in the NFL Clements has more INT's and TD's than, Champ Bailey, Charles Woodsen and I'll be damned that I can't remember all the names but also Deion Sanders!


That's an eye opening number!

[Patrick76777]

Heard this stat on the radio yesterday. In thier first 4 years in the NFL Clements has more INT's and TD's than, Champ Bailey, Charles Woodsen and I'll be damned that I can't remember all the names but also Deion Sanders!


That's an eye opening number!


Chris McCalister was also one.

[Patrick76777]

Chris McCalister was also one.


Ty Law also has 18 picks but has less TD's!



Nate's totals, 18 Int's, 4 Int TD's, and 2 Return TD's.

18 Int's and 6 TD's over his first 4 seasons. Not too bad!

[redeye5]

I've been a fan since the 2nd Super Bowl (age 6, when I was first old enough to really understand what football was), and I have not seen a better Corner than Nate. Winfield was good, but Nate could make just as many plays and he could hold on to the ball for an INT.
I saw Odoms play and I can't remember anything really that really stood out in his play, but maybe it was because I was too young to appreciate good corner play.:D
greatest comeback in NFL history.
The Bills took their first lead when Reich connected with Reed for the third time, this time from 17 yards out, to put Buffalo on top 38-35 with 3:08 left in regulation play. After a 12-play, 63-yard drive, Del Greco hit a 26-yard FG to send the contest into OT. After winning the toss, Houston gave the ball back to the Bills when DB Nate Odomes picked off a Moon pass. Three plays later, Christie kicked the 32-yard game winner to give Buffalo the dramatic 41-38 victory, sending the team to the second round of the AFC Playoffs.....
without that INT we never would have won this game or made History...
with all of Clements' great plays you have to weigh them against the Bad...If you do this then the bad really do outweigh the good. ESPCIALLY the 1st game this year agianst J'Ville "JUST KNOCK THE BALL DOWN NATE!!!!"
P.S. Odoms Never had a "PLAYMAKER" plaque on his locker.....

[eyedog]

Who protects all of the corners from getting their asses burned? That premier corner on the otherside of the field? Nope. A good safety can bail the whole defensive squad out of a jam. A good corner can lock down his side of the field but is respondsible for far less than the safety.

Look how Dawkins has saved Phillys secondary. Or Harrison in NE. Look what happened to us early in the season. I think corner is a huge position but your safety is your last line of defense.

Watch your boy Harrison this week against the Colts. Let me know if they line him up over Wayne, Harrison, or Stokley. If the Colts get any of those individual matchups than watch the scoreboard because it will be changing.

[The King]

Watch your boy Harrison this week against the Colts. Let me know if they line him up over Wayne, Harrison, or Stokley. If the Colts get any of those individual matchups than watch the scoreboard because it will be changing.

My boy hardly.... and I do think the Colts are an exception to any backfield. I am just trying to bring ro your attention how important safeties are whether they are equally important or more they have a CYA position and with out a good one youd know.

[juice]

LOL Nate as the best? Hardly! Top 5 DB in the league?? HARDLY!

Nate is an average to above average corner in the league. He needs to get his **** straight before he is even considered for the top 10. Hell, New England has 2 of the best although they are both on IR.Can you name the Ten CBs that played at a higher level than Nate this season.. Better yet just name 5, but start by excluding Champ and Woodson because they only had average campaigns this season.

[Philagape]

Clements is a "playmaker" all right .... for both teams.

[Mudflap1]

I think Chris Watson is the greatest DB in Bills history...

Jon

[carybillsfan]

Pay the man he's the only one who showed up for the last game of the season.

[EDS]

I think Clements had a great year and is worthy of pro bowl consideration. Several of the big name top corners had disappointing seasons yet made it on reputation - i.e., Champ Bailey. Others were injured for a large portion of the season - i.e., Ty Law.

That said there were a bunch of young or otherwise non-big name guys who also had great seasons - guys like Dunta Robinson, Tory James, Lito Shephard, etc.

I think it is hard to argue that Nate was not one of the top 10 corners this year.

[Pride]

Some of you guys claim certain DBs are having bad years... guess what... The best CB is only as good as the defense he is playing on. I think the fact that we had McGee on the other side actually made Clements a better CB.

Not because Nate earned it, but because most offenses were going straight after McGee... so it made nate look great!

[buffalofan19]

greatest comeback in NFL history.
The Bills took their first lead when Reich connected with Reed for the third time, this time from 17 yards out, to put Buffalo on top 38-35 with 3:08 left in regulation play. After a 12-play, 63-yard drive, Del Greco hit a 26-yard FG to send the contest into OT. After winning the toss, Houston gave the ball back to the Bills when DB Nate Odomes picked off a Moon pass. Three plays later, Christie kicked the 32-yard game winner to give Buffalo the dramatic 41-38 victory, sending the team to the second round of the AFC Playoffs.....
without that INT we never would have won this game or made History...
with all of Clements' great plays you have to weigh them against the Bad...If you do this then the bad really do outweigh the good. ESPCIALLY the 1st game this year agianst J'Ville "JUST KNOCK THE BALL DOWN NATE!!!!"
P.S. Odoms Never had a "PLAYMAKER" plaque on his locker.....

See, I don't really rememberthat game too much because it was on the radio. It didn't sell out:fury: .

I'm sure if I saw it on TV it would have stood out to me.

[EDS]

Some of you guys claim certain DBs are having bad years... guess what... The best CB is only as good as the defense he is playing on. I think the fact that we had McGee on the other side actually made Clements a better CB.

Not because Nate earned it, but because most offenses were going straight after McGee... so it made nate look great!


That is true of every team. Champ Bailey got an enormous contract from Denver because no one ever through to his side when he was with the Redskins. Turns out, teams started throwing at him as a Bronco and he had a bad season. Up until this season, Champ was one of only a handful of cornerbacks you could label as a true "shut down" corner. After this year, it is apparent that there may not be any one deserving of that label.

I think the mark of a good corner is someone that teams game plan around - i.e., focus their passing attack away from. Nate is reaching that level, which is good for the bills because it forces the other team to work with only half a field.

[The Natrix]

Berman's right. He got robbed. Along with Moorman.

[juice]

Some of you guys claim certain DBs are having bad years... guess what... The best CB is only as good as the defense he is playing on. I think the fact that we had McGee on the other side actually made Clements a better CB.

Not because Nate earned it, but because most offenses were going straight after McGee... so it made nate look great!Thats a legit Point.. But from what I saw of Clements this year he has no weakpoint to his game.

Ability to Tackle had been questioned in the past, I think he showed that he is a solid tackler and has the ability to track down Backs with World Class speed as he displayed against the Steelers when Parker broke and Nate had to walk him down while making an attempt to dislodge the ball before bringing him down.

Nate's Coverage and Interception ability is apparent, but he also excels at causing fumbles as was displayed in the Steelers game in which he caused 4 fumbles.. shows that he is a DB with high intellect.

Strengths in every aspect of defense makes Clements a true lock-down corner deserving of a Franchise type contract to keep him in Buffalo.

[Captain gameboy]

Robert James was the best Bills CB ever.

Butch Byrd? :eek:

EE has it right.

Robert James was the best cover corner ever.
Not talking about returning punts etc.

Butch Byrd was too big, and too slow.
But he had a classic Genesee (or Iriquois, I don't recall), beer commercial.
Too slow to cover today's receivers.

I know a lot have not heard about Robert James.
But.. ..The opposition's receivers might just as well have put him on with their jerseys.

He was that good.

[weettt]

Nate is top 5, without a doubt. Someone name 5 better. There aren't 5 that are without a doubt better. No way.

[Crisis]

We shut down some off the high-powered passing games. Clements shut down Chad Johnson.

I don't buy into this "dont throw to them" stuff. You throw to your playmakers. Clements is on the other team's playmaker.

[Mudflap1]

George Saimes and Willie West. Also Henry Jones. Thomas Smith wasn't bad either.

George Saimes was the best.

Jon

[Captain gameboy]

George Saimes and Willie West. Also Henry Jones. Thomas Smith wasn't bad either.

George Saimes was the best.

Jon

You're kidding right?

George Saimes was a strong safety.
He was no cover guy.

[Mudflap1]

The topic is BEST BILLS DB EVER, not BEST COVER GUY.

He was a Pro Bowler for several years in a row. He helped the team win two championships.

How many times has Clements been to the Pro Bowl?

Do you believe that Ronnie Lott wasn't the best DB on the 49ers in their glory years (or ever, for that matter) because he wasn't a "cover guy" as much as some of the other players?

Jon

[Captain gameboy]

Easy pal.
George Saimes was an undersized, slow, smart strong safety.
Very bright, but...he isn't anywhere near the top 15 of Bills' DB's.

[Mudflap1]

You are cutting him WAY too short... I hold to my declaration, give me 15 Bills DB's with these credentials...

Inducted in 2000 onto Buffalo Bills Wall of Fame
George Saimes, 26
S / Michigan State
Joined the Bills as a sixth round draft pick in 1963 following an All-America career as a defensive back and fullback at Michigan State…spent seven seasons as a safety with the Bills and was a key contributor on the Buffalo teams that captured back-to-back AFL titles in 1964 and ‘65….was selected as an AFL All-Star five times and is a member of the all-time AFL Defensive Team…has spent the last 18 years in the NFL as a scout, including the last 15 with the Washington Redskins…currently working with the personnel department of the NFL franchise awarded to Houston.


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[Captain gameboy]

You are cutting him WAY too short... I hold to my declaration, give me 15 Bills DB's

It will take me a day ,or so, but I will give you my top 15.
I liked Saimes a lot, but I don't put him in that category.

One quick point though. The defense which won the 64/65 championships had very little to do with him.
We had a very strong D-line and an incredible linebacking group, with good corners.

[Mudflap1]

Hey, I respect your opinion and perspective, I just think you gotta give credit where credit's due, and All-AFL team plus 5 All Pros are pretty darn good credentials to me, arguably (I don't have the facts in front of me), more decorated than any other DB in Bills history. I'd be interested to see if that's the case actually...

Sure, they had a great DL, LB's, and CB's, but that shouldn't take anything away from Saimes. The DL and LB's could say "hey, our life was easier because we had a great secondary" etc. Just because they were good doesn't mean Saimes was any less of a football player or was any less deserving of what he was awarded.

Jon

[Captain gameboy]

I checked the data on Saimes all pro award(s).
While he is listed, I notice that those teams only included AFL players, making them all AFL. Sources on the internet aren't always held to high standards.

Anyway, I'll post my top 15 tomorrow.

[DraftBoy]

CB's Id take over Nate Clements:
Champ Bailey
Chris McCalister
Charles Woodson
Phillip Buchannan
Ty Law
Ronde Barber
Samari Rolle


lets remeber not to base everything on just one year. Nate had an awesome year here and i hope he stays for a long time, but I also hope for come consistency in the coming years too

[juice]

CB's Id take over Nate Clements:
Champ Bailey
Chris McCalister
Charles Woodson
Phillip Buchannan
Ty Law
Ronde Barber
Samari Rolle


lets remeber not to base everything on just one year. Nate had an awesome year here and i hope he stays for a long time, but I also hope for come consistency in the coming years tooClements has been the Bills top cover corner since his rookie season and continues to improve in all phases.. with his FA season upcoming he will probably be a top 3 corner if we dont lock him up in the offseason.

[ajsdx]

I miss the days of true shut down corners. I think some second/third tier WRs should try their hand at being a corner...there are way too many great WRs in the league, and they might even make more money that way just because there aren't enough quality corners to go around.

[ajsdx]

Also, I agree (generally) that a good corner is worth substantially more than a good safety, except for one thing. Safties lead their teams; they're called defensive QBs. You don't find many corner guys leading a defense just because their job requires them to focus all their energy on just one thing. If they lose focus for even one second on that singular goal, they lose their job. So safeties with skills who are great leaders can be more valuable than any CB. Guys like Ed Reed, Sean Taylor, Harrison, etc. are monsters and catalysts for their Ds. I might even take Reed now over Deion in his prime, depending on the team I already have.

[unpaid_bills]

My vote goes to Mark Kelso "The Great Gazoo"

[BADTHINGSMAN]

Butch Byrd deffinitly, I have a tape of the Bills in the 90's, farther into the movie it shows some highlights of Byrd and I was amazed at how easy Byrd made it look..

[ricogarion]

Robert James
CB / Fisk University
Played with the Bills from 1969-74…joined the team as an undrafted free agent in 1969…considered one of the best man-to-man cover men of his time…recorded nine interceptions in his career…led the team with four INTs in 1971…played in three straight Pro Bowls from 1972-74…was also selected to The Sporting News AFC All-Star team in the 1973 and ’74 seasons…suffered a severe knee injury in the 1975 preseason which kept him out for that campaign and led to his retirement the following year…went on to become a high school administrator in Tennessee following his playing career.

[Historian]

Best DBs:

James
Byrd
Nixon

Worst DBs:

Kelso
JD Williams
Kush

[eyedog]

[QUOTE=DraftBoy]CB's Id take over Nate Clements:
Champ Bailey
Chris McCalister
Charles Woodson
Phillip Buchannan
Ty Law
Ronde Barber
Samari Rolle


lets remeber not to base everything on just one year. Nate had an awesome year here and i hope he stays for a long time, but I also hope for come consistency in the coming years too[

If you were a gm for a team right now you would take those seven corners over Clements ?
I honestly wouldn't take any of them over Clements for various reasons.

[juice]

[QUOTE=DraftBoy]CB's Id take over Nate Clements:
Champ Bailey
Chris McCalister
Charles Woodson
Phillip Buchannan
Ty Law
Ronde Barber
Samari Rolle



If you were a gm for a team right now you would take those seven corners over Clements ?
I honestly wouldn't take any of them over Clements for various reasons.I agree with you Dog.. almost everyone of those guys are older and seem to get injured quite often.

[Captain gameboy]

Here’s my list of DB’s I thought were better than Saimes.

Saimes has his name on the wall, and is a part of the legendary 64-65 teams, but I think these guys were better. Saimes was more of a defensive QB.

1.Robert James. The best ever. Up there with Deion, as a pure cover guy, but without the noise.

2-9. In no particular order.

Butch Byrd..
Nate Odomes…
Nate Clements…
Tony Greene….
Henry Jones…
Charles Romes….
Booker Edgerson….
Alvin Wyatt..

Guys that I think are close.

Thomas Smith, as a pure cover guy.
Leonard Smith..for effect.
Alvin Wyatt.

And for his incredible return skills, the best we’ve ever had, Charley Warner.

He is listed as a DB, but couldn’t cover anybody. He sure could bring back a kick though.

[Mudflap1]

I think we're talking about two different things here. I'm saying Saimes as best DB, you are saying I think best DB cover guy, which is not the same thing.

How many of these guys on your list made All Pro? Multiple times? And how many are on the Wall of Fame? I'm not sure any of them have been either (but I'm not sure).

If this is their best, their best isn't very good IMO...

Jon

[Captain gameboy]

I think we're talking about two different things here. I'm saying Saimes as best DB, you are saying I think best DB cover guy, which is not the same thing.

How many of these guys on your list made All Pro? Multiple times? And how many are on the Wall of Fame? I'm not sure any of them have been either (but I'm not sure).

If this is their best, their best isn't very good IMO...

Jon

I understand what you're saying. I saw Saimes play quite a few times, and saw him in practice.
I think that the guys I mentioned are better DB's. I think Saimes was a coach on the field, and benefitted from a very good D-line and linebacking group.

That 63-64-65 team gave about 2.5 seconds to throw.

He was good, but I think putting him up there with the elites is a stretch.

[Dozerdog]

EE has it right.

Robert James was the best cover corner ever.
Not talking about returning punts etc.

Butch Byrd was too big, and too slow.
But he had a classic Genesee (or Iriquois, I don't recall), beer commercial.
Too slow to cover today's receivers.

I know a lot have not heard about Robert James.
But.. ..The opposition's receivers might just as well have put him on with their jerseys.

He was that good.
James was the best, Butch Byrd was the second best. Holds the record for most INT's, returns for a TD, - he was a major part of the championship teams

[Dozerdog]

Best DBs:

James
Byrd
Nixon

Worst DBs:

Kelso
JD Williams
Kush


No Chris Watson?????? WORST........DB..........EVER

[Captain gameboy]

I forgot to mention Antoine Winfield.
I think he is in the top 10.

[juice]

I forgot to mention Antoine Winfield.
I think he is in the top 10.Because of AW's size he was a liability in coverage against taller WR as well as elite recievers.

I remember the last season the Colts were in the AFC-E, Manning was making a living against our DBs and Marvin H. consistently burned Winfield. I think Moss had a field-day against 'Toine that same year.. Watson was also part of that Backfield so it wasn't just AW, but the entire secondary that was weakin coverage.

AW may make an even better SS than CB before his career is over.. One year Antoine put up over 100 tackles, turning in one of the best seasons as a CB in history as far as Total Tackles.. Those were LB type stats.

'01 106 TT --- 79 solos 1st Bill DB to lead league in tackles.

[Captain gameboy]

Because of AW's size he was a liability in coverage against taller WR as well as elite recievers.

I remember the last season the Colts were in the AFC-E, Manning was making a living against our DBs and Marvin H. consistently burned Winfield. I think Moss had a field-day against 'Toine that same year.. Watson was also part of that Backfield so it wasn't just AW, but the entire secondary that was weakin coverage.

AW may make an even better SS than CB before his career is over.. One year Antoine put up over 100 tackles, turning in one of the best seasons as a CB in history as far as Total Tackles.. Those were LB type stats.

'01 106 TT --- 79 solos 1st Bill DB to lead league in tackles.

I won't disagree with your post.

Sports Illustrated named him the best corner in the NFL at one point last year.
I think that puts him the Bills top ten of all time.

[G. Host]

Is Nate Clements the most skilled DB ever to wear a Bills Uni?
No for he makes as many bad plays as good ones. But with salary inflation he probably will be most highly paid DB. RJ was paid more than Jim Kelly so salary is not the determining factor.

[juice]

No for he makes as many bad plays as good ones. But with salary inflation he probably will be most highly paid DB. RJ was paid more than Jim Kelly so salary is not the determining factor.Clements had better stats this year than Bailey, McCallister, and Woodson.. as well as having better #'s than theirs over the first 4 years in the League.

You can argue that Nate has been the best DB in the League over the last 4 seasons and the stats back up the claim.. simalar stats to the best DBs in the League and he's 2 years younger than these perrenial Pro Bowlers.

Again, if we dont lock this guy up in the offseason our Defense will be taking a huge step backwards.

What were the Bad plays that he makes.. He never gets burned and he's always in position to make the play, even in the Jags game he had perfect position to make a play on the ball, Smith just made the play.

He's not perfect, but he is top 3 in the League.

[juice]

Ronde Barber has had a great career and put up the best #'s but I would take Clements youth at this point in their careers.

[Philagape]

Wow save a spot in Canton for enshrinement

[Historian]

No Chris Watson?????? WORST........DB..........EVER

Watson was our designated punt catcher, and there are others who were worse.

:D