What's the effect on the salary cap if DB is cut...

[Ebenezer]

as everybody throws numbers around...let's at least come a little close, ok?

I am sure clump will come by and correct something but here goes:

if DB is cut before 3/1 the Bills would save:
2005: $1.14M (Dead Cap $4.432M)
2006: $8.316M (Dead Cap $0)

if DB were cut between 3/3 and 6/1 the Bills would save:
2005: $140K (Dead Cap $5.432M)
2006: $8.316 (Dead Cap $0)

if DB were cut between 6/2 and the day before the opener the Bills would save:
2005: $3.3M (Dead Cap $3.216M)
2006: $6.05M (Dead Cap $2.216M)

IF DB gets his $1M bonus on 3/2 then he will be a Bill in 2005...he will not be here in 2006

again...the only way for the Bills to have avoided this was to cut him outright instead of restructuring the deal last year...once they did that they committed money for 2004 and 2005 to him...money equal to that that they would have paid him for 2004 had they exercised the last part of the contract and kept him.

Now, as to who would have started in 2004...Cutting him outright would have left an injured AVP, an unproven Travis Brown and a nobody Zolman as the QBs going into the draft...The Bills would have had to successfully draft JP, and either started him or a journeyman (Couch, Warner, Blake, etc)...

you may commence arguing...

[helmetguy]

as everybody throws numbers around...let's at least come a little close, ok?

I am sure clump will come by and correct something but here goes:

if DB is cut before 3/1 the Bills would save:
2005: $1.14M (Dead Cap $4.432M)
2006: $8.316M (Dead Cap $0)

if DB were cut between 3/3 and 6/1 the Bills would save:
2005: $140K (Dead Cap $5.432M)
2006: $8.316 (Dead Cap $0)

if DB were cut between 6/2 and the day before the opener the Bills would save:
2005: $3.3M (Dead Cap $3.216M)
2006: $6.05M (Dead Cap $2.216M)

IF DB gets his $1M bonus on 3/2 then he will be a Bill in 2005...he will not be here in 2006

again...the only way for the Bills to have avoided this was to cut him outright instead of restructuring the deal last year...once they did that they committed money for 2004 and 2005 to him...money equal to that that they would have paid him for 2004 had they exercised the last part of the contract and kept him.

Now, as to who would have started in 2004...Cutting him outright would have left an injured AVP, an unproven Travis Brown and a nobody Zolman as the QBs going into the draft...The Bills would have had to successfully draft JP, and either started him or a journeyman (Couch, Warner, Blake, etc)...

you may commence arguing...
Why didn't you post this sooner? You coulda killed trhree threads at once!

[dannyek71]

Cut him soon, bring in someone with the stature of Jeff Blake, Trent Dilfer, Shaun King etc....

If Joey gets cut by the Lions and we could get him cheap, then id say go for it (i know many will argue with this) but why the heck not.....he'd be a low risk, high reward gamble.....


You dont pay someone an 8hr pay if they will get the job done in 2 hours, so why pay DB a full season at a high salary when hes only going to play the first bit of the season before JP steps in?

[Ebenezer]

Why didn't you post this sooner? You coulda killed trhree threads at once!
had to ask clump about some 2006 bonus money...:D

[clumping platelets]

Jeff Blake? Trent Dilfer? Shaun King? :shakeno:

Harrington does not make sense and he would likely be subject to waivers anyhoo. He's a young QB....we have one already

[FTG]

Come on Drew..... Just Say No!

[Billsouth]

what about kurt warner. he would be a good pick up

[clumping platelets]

what about kurt warner. he would be a good pick up


A FA QB will need to weigh the opportunity. Losman sitting in the wings, so a veteran will need to come here and play well early in the season, otherwise, they'll be benched in favor of Losman (same situation if Bledsoe is still here). Warner has the same problems as Drew, holds the ball too long, is immobile, and prone to fumble

[DraftBoy]

I gotta say we need to cut him before 3/1 bc we pick up an extra mill this season for rookies and with 8 million for the following wrapping up Nate shouldnt be a problem.

[DraftBoy]

Jeff Blake? Trent Dilfer? Shaun King? :shakeno:

Harrington does not make sense and he would likely be subject to waivers anyhoo. He's a young QB....we have one already


Why not Shaun King? He got screwed over in Tampa, still relatively young and could battle JP for the starter spot.

[Billz_fan]

Warner has the same problems as Drew, holds the ball too long, is immobile, and prone to fumble

amen :up:

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

IF Bledsoe is cut, I think the club will have already decided on Losman as the #1 guy from day one....and we will to see them pick up an "average" free agent QB sometime early in the FA signing period. They gotta get whomever they sign quick so that they can assimilate to the offense. I hate to say it but if Drew is cut, Kordell Stewart or Charlie Batch are very likely possibilities due to their familiarity with Clements and Mularky.

[Michael82]

Why not Shaun King? He got screwed over in Tampa, still relatively young and could battle JP for the starter spot.
Shaun King?!?!?! He couldn't take over the starting spot for Josh McCown. :roflmao:

[dannyek71]

Jeff Blake? Trent Dilfer? Shaun King? :shakeno:

Harrington does not make sense and he would likely be subject to waivers anyhoo. He's a young QB....we have one already
We dont necessarily need a QB to lead our team to the superbowl, just someone decent who will play for cheap. Bringing in a big name high priced QB would cost us lots of $$$, and no way a big name guy would come in knowing that his time is numbered.

Shaun King could be a stopgap for the first few games, and would be very cheap, and Jeff Blake is a veteran QB that would be cheap.

What is Tony Banks up to these days?




The real question is this: Would you rather have a high priced QB play 4 games for us next season before JP takes over, or have a guy like Shaun King(example) start the first few games, and have a quality OL that we get through FA with the money that we save by not paying a QB a large amount of $$$ who will play for us the entire season?

Id take King and the OL anyday.....

[DraftBoy]

Shaun King?!?!?! He couldn't take over the starting spot for Josh McCown. :roflmao:


You do know that he was the starter for 2-3 weeks till he got injured right? atleast that was my understanding...

[tampabay25690]

Well I know that most of you want Drew out. But it doesnt make sense to cut him this year. I think Drew will be back next year but not 2006 season. The Bills were 9-7 and that is much better then most of you and myself thought they would do after a 0-4 start, or did most of you forget that. Yea JP is the QB of the future but honestly I dont think he is ready this year. SO we should keep Drew and lets stay positive for next season.

We did see what he could do when he had time and wasnt pressured. If we help our O line out the team will be fine, and next year we might be posting something different!!!!!!!

[Ebenezer]

You do know that he was the starter for 2-3 weeks till he got injured right? atleast that was my understanding...
he started one game on Green's merry go round

[qcsabresfan84]

what about kurt warner. he would be a good pick up
I'd say that Warner is the best candidate out there to play a half a season for us if JP isn't ready at the start of the season, but I doubt he'd come here. He still thinks he deserves to be a fulltime starter somewhere, and Buffalo would be the same situation he had last year with Eli, with him only playing a few games before having to back up an unproven young quarterback again.

[dannyek71]

I'd say that Warner is the best candidate out there to play a half a season for us if JP isn't ready at the start of the season, but I doubt he'd come here. He still thinks he deserves to be a fulltime starter somewhere, and Buffalo would be the same situation he had last year with Eli, with him only playing a few games before having to back up an unproven young quarterback again.
Kurt didnt really like the situation in NY near the end, why would he come to the same situation here in Buffalo?

Kurt played lousy outside his whole career. Why take him playing outside in Buffalo?

Id rather have DB than Kurt.

[ScottLawrence]

I thought Kelly Holcomb was a free agent....No?

[finsrclowns]

he started one game on Green's merry go round

Two games, not that it matters. That guy cannot throw a football accurately.

I cannot understand any of this talk. The idea is to win a championship. Why would you bring in another journeyman? You either start Bledsoe or you start JP. The future is JP, the only question is when. If the Bills think JP is the better option now, why would he not start week 1? He has all of camp and preseason to get ready.

[justasportsfan]

Two games, not that it matters. That guy cannot throw a football accurately.

I cannot understand any of this talk. The idea is to win a championship. Why would you bring in another journeyman? You either start Bledsoe or you start JP. The future is JP, the only question is when. If the Bills think JP is the better option now, why would he not start week 1? He has all of camp and preseason to get ready. Cap. We need more cap and Drew is overpaid.

[Ebenezer]

Cap. We need more cap and Drew is overpaid.
the $1.4M you save by cutting him will pay for a semi-marginal back-up for
JP or somebody like Mattews who will eat up half of that...leaving half to get a 3rd string RB to back up McGahee and S. Williams...no cost savings...

if you are going to get a semi-marginal back-up for $1.4M isn't it better to keep somebody familiar with the system?

[finsrclowns]

the $1.4M you save by cutting him will pay for a semi-marginal back-up for
JP or somebody like Mattews who will eat up half of that...leaving half to get a 3rd string RB to back up McGahee and S. Williams...no cost savings...

if you are going to get a semi-marginal back-up for $1.4M isn't it better to keep somebody familiar with the system?

I think the Bills need to decide what they want to do with Bledsoe. If they plan to start JP, I think it would be best to cut Drew. He's only 32, and I'm sure he won't be satisfied as a backup. Bledsoe may be willing to take some kind of pay cut if he's going to get the chance to start the season. Moulds salary is double Bledsoe's and he's another guy that should be asked to take a cut in pay.
But the bottom line is if you plan to go with JP, cut Drew and sign Travis Brown or someone like that as the backup. If you're going to give Bledsoe another shot he might be a source of 800k to 1m of additional cap room.

[justasportsfan]

the $1.4M you save by cutting him will pay for a semi-marginal back-up for
JP or somebody like Mattews who will eat up half of that...leaving half to get a 3rd string RB to back up McGahee and S. Williams...no cost savings...

if you are going to get a semi-marginal back-up for $1.4M isn't it better to keep somebody familiar with the system?


I'll take this option.



if DB were cut between 6/2 and the day before the opener the Bills would save:
2005: $3.3M (Dead Cap $3.216M)
2006: $6.05M (Dead Cap $2.216M)?

If we keep Drew wouldn't he cost us more anyways? I'd rather take a minimal saving than give him more money.


If Mularkey is such a good offensive mind , then he should be able to make do w/ a qb that can hand off the ball. We can find qb's out there that can do that for way less.


If we don't cut Drew and he's our starter then the only way we win anyways is if he hands the ball too . :idunno: .

[Typ0]

If we cut drew and another team picks him up...isn't our cap hit relative to what they pay him?

[Ebenezer]

If we cut drew and another team picks him up...isn't our cap hit relative to what they pay him?
no...it has nothing to do with what they pay him...it is based on the contract he signed here...

[Ebenezer]

I think the Bills need to decide what they want to do with Bledsoe. If they plan to start JP, I think it would be best to cut Drew. He's only 32, and I'm sure he won't be satisfied as a backup. Bledsoe may be willing to take some kind of pay cut if he's going to get the chance to start the season. Moulds salary is double Bledsoe's and he's another guy that should be asked to take a cut in pay.
But the bottom line is if you plan to go with JP, cut Drew and sign Travis Brown or someone like that as the backup. If you're going to give Bledsoe another shot he might be a source of 800k to 1m of additional cap room.
Moulds would never agree to, nor should it be expected that he take a pay cut...what has warrented that?? should his contract be restructured? yes...but a pay cut? no.

[The Natrix]

Please god, let Bledsoe be cut.

[Philagape]

Yea JP is the QB of the future but honestly I dont think he is ready this year.

There is no way to know now whether JP will be ready for 2005 or not. There's offseason workouts, minicamps and training camp between now and then.

[Typ0]

no...it has nothing to do with what they pay him...it is based on the contract he signed here...

I wish I understood it better then. Is that because of amortized earnings? It doesn't make sense that he could hit our cap for those amounts and then go somewhere else and hit their cap too. That would be a big cap hit on the league for one player. If we trade him does the other team pick up the cap hit?

[Canadian'eh!]

Why not Shaun King? He got screwed over in Tampa, still relatively young and could battle JP for the starter spot.


I guess you missed his brilliance in Arizona this year... stellar.

[Canadian'eh!]

You do know that he was the starter for 2-3 weeks till he got injured right? atleast that was my understanding...


It wasn't really injury.. it was genereal TERRIBLENESS. he was brutal.

[BillsFever21]

It wasn't really injury.. it was genereal TERRIBLENESS. he was brutal.
I thought it's a team game? Bledsoe has been brutal but everyone says it's not his fault that it's a team game.

Now when other QB's suck ass they just flat out suck ass as a QB. When Bledsoe sucks ass it's a team game and it's not his fault.

This is some flawed logic :scratch:

[Canadian'eh!]

Two games, not that it matters. That guy cannot throw a football accurately.

I cannot understand any of this talk. The idea is to win a championship. Why would you bring in another journeyman? You either start Bledsoe or you start JP. The future is JP, the only question is when. If the Bills think JP is the better option now, why would he not start week 1? He has all of camp and preseason to get ready.


I mostly agree with this.

If read Eb's post correctly it seems lie there 2 best options are to keep Drew for 2005 and cut him before 06, OR to cut him before March 1 and save a whopping 1 mill. (unless cutting Drew after 05 means huge dead cap money..... it's not really clear)

other than hoping for a restructure, I say you might as well keep him. Unless you are sure 100% sure Losman would be ready to win.

Bringing in any of these names i've seen here makes 0 sense. Dilfer was bad in Seattle this year. Warner wants to start and not another young gun looking over his shoulder. Plus he is worse than drew for turnovers. couch, King, Holcumb etc etc etc. yuck.

Now, if Kitna wanted to get a shot of starting for a year then MAYBE we are looking at something descent to work with. Same if Tommy Maddox is done in Pittsburgh, since his job as a astarter is clearly gone.

personally... I say just go with Losman or stick with Drew.

[Canadian'eh!]

I thought it's a team game? Bledsoe has been brutal but everyone says it's not his fault that it's a team game.

Now when other QB's suck ass they just flat out suck ass as a QB. When Bledsoe sucks ass it's a team game and it's not his fault.

This is some flawed logic :scratch:


His Oline didn't help him for sure... neither did his running game... but the fact that he has trouble gettingthe ball withiin 5 yards of any reciever.... you know what forget it... he's a god among men... KING in 05!

[FTG]

I thought it's a team game? Bledsoe has been brutal but everyone says it's not his fault that it's a team game.

Now when other QB's suck ass they just flat out suck ass as a QB. When Bledsoe sucks ass it's a team game and it's not his fault.

This is some flawed logic :scratch:

:snicker:

[Canadian'eh!]

:snicker:

don't you have an Amigay meeting to attend? Or are you here to dazzle us with another "just say no, Drew" for the 87th straight thread.

EDIT: just noticed you already hit this thread with that one... my bad.

[finsrclowns]

Moulds would never agree to, nor should it be expected that he take a pay cut...what has warrented that?? should his contract be restructured? yes...but a pay cut? no.

"Restructured" means defer the problem. Moulds cap # for 2005 is 8.5m, 9m for 2006. To me, that's way too high. If you "restructure" it means you lower his cap # now but extend the contract at at even bigger cap # later. Does that make sense for a guy who's on the south side of 30? Generally speaking production for receivers goes down in their 30's and they get injured more. What I see with Moulds is a guy who's still getting paid like a top 10 receiver but now plays like a top 20 receiver. This year he dropped a lot of balls, seemed reluctant to go over the middle, is no longer a serious deep threat and whined about not getting the ball more. That situation is only going to deteriorate since Evans will soon eclipse Moulds as the #1 receiver. If Moulds won't take a cut I'd just as soon cut him and sign a Plaxico Burress with the 4m cap savings.

[FTG]

don't you have an Amigay meeting to attend? Or are you here to dazzle us with another "just say no, Drew" for the 87th straight thread.

EDIT: just noticed you already hit this thread with that one... my bad.


:snicker: a little testy since you found out TD is not as high on your boy as you thought he was? :snicker:

[Canadian'eh!]

:snicker: a little testy since you found out TD is not as high on your boy as you thought he was? :snicker:


Testy because every time i think we are discussing next years options or something other than How much certain people here hate Drew Bledsoe, it turns into the same old bull**** where anyone who defends Drew in any way whatsoever gets attacked and inundated with Drew sucks posts.

EB made a very good post about the possibilites with Drew and the cap numbers and i tried to discuss them and i get the same old ****.

I said Kitna and possibly Maddox might be descent and open to a year's chance at starter otherwise stick with Losman or Drew.

Did you even read that? did anyone? Instead i attacked for saying king isn't very good. whatever.

I feel sorry for anyone who has come one here and tried to look at things even remotely objectively because one of 4-5 morons start flaming relentlessly for even saying something.

MBBedard mentioned one thing about Manning not being able to beat the Pats either and everyone jumped down his throat saying "DON'T COMPARE DREW TO MANNING BECAUSE DREW SUCKS" etc etc etc etc.... jesus.. all he said was that manning can't beat the Pats.

All you guys want to do is come on here and harass anyone who doesn't agree on your view of "Drew is the DEVIL".... and good posts are being railroaded to your little personal anti-drew war.

here's a newsflash: Drew Bledsoe is by far not the worst QB with a job in the NFL. Nor is he the best. He may or may not be the best option we have to QB this team next year despite your personal opinon. Everyone knows where the 3-4 AMIGOS who can't shut up about it think... so you can stop telling us.

[BillsFever21]

MBBedard mentioned one thing about Manning not being able to beat the Pats either


I thought it's a team game and not the QB's fault?

[The_Philster]

I thought it's a team game? Bledsoe has been brutal but everyone says it's not his fault that it's a team game.

Now when other QB's suck ass they just flat out suck ass as a QB. When Bledsoe sucks ass it's a team game and it's not his fault.

This is some flawed logic :scratch:

No one absolves Drew from any blame here. If he sucks, we all admit it. If other players suck as well, most people admit it...some ignore the other problems besides Drew

[Canadian'eh!]

I thought it's a team game and not the QB's fault?

Shouldn't you tell this to MB?? it wasn't my thread. nice try though.

oh, and for the record... I said you can't lay all the blame on the QB (for instance... why was Manning not going after the depleted Pats seconadry... while much of this is playcalling he gets so much leeway to change his plays it didn't make much sense... The colts did not run the ball well at all and did generally un-colts like things... injuries to their oline didn't help either.) but i also said you ca't give him all the credit for wins either.... but you choose to ignore when i say that of course. of course for the Haters.. when we win we win in SPITE fo Drew but when we lose it's 100% Bledsoe... that sounds MUCH more reasonable than my you can't give QB's 100% credit and 100% blame.

I never said it was mannings fault.. but he doesn't look like his usual self versus the pats for whatever reason.

OK... so now that you have suceeded in being annoying, you can stop

[FTG]

If other players suck as well, most people admit it...some ignore the other problems besides Drew

If by "some" you mean one (ICE) then I guess this post is accurate. Otherwise you're wrong.

[Mr. Cynical]

There is no way to know now whether JP will be ready for 2005 or not. There's offseason workouts, minicamps and training camp between now and then. Exactly.

I'm not sure when, but they need to cut Drew before the season starts. To be honest, I don't care as much now about the cap hit as I do for OBD to show fans that after 3 years they realize Drew is not a realistic option to take this team to the next level. I think alot of fans would appreciate and respect that direct, decisive move and would support whatever decision follows as to the QB situation.

[Dozerdog]

Shaun King couldn't keep a job with th NFL's best defense and a top rushing attack behind him.

Jeff Blake has played for and lost startig Jobs with some of the NFL's worst offensive teams. Shane Matthews is better.

[Dozerdog]

I'd let JP and Bledsoe fight it out in camp. If Bledsoe does suck, JP should win easily. I'd keep DB for 1 season as the backup- since there is little cap savings and DB's familiarity with the team, the system and weather conditions at the Ralph may be valuable in a backup situation.

[Mr. Cynical]

I'd let JP and Bledsoe fight it out in camp. If Bledsoe does suck, JP should win easily. I'd keep DB for 1 season as the backup- since there is little cap savings and DB's familiarity with the team, the system and weather conditions at the Ralph may be valuable in a backup situation. If there wasn't the history with Drew in Buffalo, e.g., coming here as the savior and failing 3 years in a row, I would agree. I just feel Drew will add baggage - not intentionally but indirectly. If JP starts, alot of guys (especially younger ones) will look at Drew as a lame duck QB. That's not good for Drew or the team IMO.

I think it is just better to start next year with a clean slate. Find another vet to compete with JP and let them fight it out.

[Ebenezer]

"Restructured" means defer the problem. Moulds cap # for 2005 is 8.5m, 9m for 2006. To me, that's way too high. If you "restructure" it means you lower his cap # now but extend the contract at at even bigger cap # later. Does that make sense for a guy who's on the south side of 30? Generally speaking production for receivers goes down in their 30's and they get injured more. What I see with Moulds is a guy who's still getting paid like a top 10 receiver but now plays like a top 20 receiver. This year he dropped a lot of balls, seemed reluctant to go over the middle, is no longer a serious deep threat and whined about not getting the ball more. That situation is only going to deteriorate since Evans will soon eclipse Moulds as the #1 receiver. If Moulds won't take a cut I'd just as soon cut him and sign a Plaxico Burress with the 4m cap savings.
In theory but if the contract is structured properly both team and player can benefit...Moulds is young enough to stretch out the contract and still reap the benefits and help the team...

[Dozerdog]

If there wasn't the history with Drew in Buffalo, e.g., coming here as the savior and failing 3 years in a row, I would agree. I just feel Drew will add baggage - not intentionally but indirectly. If JP starts, alot of guys (especially younger ones) will look at Drew as a lame duck QB. That's not good for Drew or the team IMO.

I think it is just better to start next year with a clean slate. Find another vet to compete with JP and let them fight it out.
Here we go again.

The only "perceived history" is between you- the fan- and your dissapointment in his performance. I don't see how his "arrival as a savor" (Media and fan concoction) has any bearing on his team mates. It's not like they dumped an icon like Kelly in favor of him.

If he were acting like Travis Henry then you might be on to something but he hasn't- and his history as a backup with the Pats hasn't been one of a disruptive force.

If Bledsoe sucks more than JP, JP will win the job. Having him as a backup will only disrupt anti- Bledsoe Bills fans. I don't see Mike Williams, or Takeo Spikes, or Lawyer Milloy being upset over Bledsoe being a backup on the team.

[Mr. Cynical]

Here we go again.

The only "perceived history" is between you- the fan- and your dissapointment in his performance. I don't see how his "arrival as a savor" (Media and fan concoction) has any bearing on his team mates. It's not like they dumped an icon like Kelly in favor of him.

If he were acting like Travis Henry then you might be on to something but he hasn't- and his history as a backup with the Pats hasn't been one of a disruptive force.

If Bledsoe sucks more than JP, JP will win the job. Having him as a backup will only disrupt anti- Bledsoe Bills fans. I don't see Mike Williams, or Takeo Spikes, or Lawyer Milloy being upset over Bledsoe being a backup on the team. Can you for once not begin every reply to my posts without being antagonistic? I have my opinion, you have yours. "Here we go again" is condescending and antagonistic. This will inevitably end up with you saying "I started a pissing match", but I just wanted to point out that you started the negative stuff....again.

[Dozerdog]

If you don't want to hear "Here we go again" then restrain yourself from repeating the same point every day.

Then I won't continue to reply to the same old same old.

[Mr. Cynical]

If you don't want to hear "Here we go again" then restrain yourself from repeating the same point every day.

Then I won't continue to reply to the same old same old.
I see. You don't like what someone says so you act like an ass to them. Nice logic. :shakeno:

Same point every day? :liar2:

[Canadian'eh!]

I see. You don't like what someone says so you act like an ass to them. Nice logic. :shakeno:

Same point every day? :liar2:

WHAT? Liar? wow... to call someone a liar for saying something that is 100% true is just palin dumb... i've seen very few posts out of cynical that has not been a major critisism of Drew and/or Donahoe. Hence, repeating that same thing day after day.

[Mr. Cynical]

I guess ONE thread on 1/5 on this specific issue (in addition to this post) constitutes every day?

Thread (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=63262)

Show me another.

:liar2:

[Dozerdog]

I see. You don't like what someone says so you act like an ass to them. Nice logic. :shakeno:

Same point every day? :liar2:
:rofl:

[Mr. Cynical]

WHAT? Liar? wow... to call someone a liar for saying something that is 100% true is just palin dumb.. And supporting someone for saying it is true when it is not it is even dumber. Show me another thread besides the one I linked to above where I talk about Drew's baggage as a result of him coming here as a savior and failing. Dozer said every day I post about that.

Until you can, :stfu:

[buffalofan19]

If there wasn't the history with Drew in Buffalo, e.g., coming here as the savior and failing 3 years in a row, I would agree. I just feel Drew will add baggage - not intentionally but indirectly. If JP starts, alot of guys (especially younger ones) will look at Drew as a lame duck QB. That's not good for Drew or the team IMO.

I think it is just better to start next year with a clean slate. Find another vet to compete with JP and let them fight it out.

This is just me, but I don't think that will happen. First of all, Drew seems like a very classy guy, if he gets beat by JP Losman for the job, I think h e'll admit it, not necessarily publicly, but if he gets demoted, I think he'll be quiet about it like he did in NE. There is the "No, it's my team" comment but, right now, I don't think he believes that JP Losman is better than he is right now. That's where he is coming from. Whether he is wrong or not, we'll find out (I personally still think he'll start. I see him taking the paycut, and, if there is a competition, I think he'll win the job because he is very good in practice with mechanics, knowledge of playbook, etc.), but if he is beat out, I think he will realize it and not put up much trouble if any at all.

Secondly, don't kid yourself, Drew is still well-liked among his teammates. Everyone on the team says it. I don't think that he will be "baggage" (i.e. a side-distraction) causing empathy among the team like the Flutie-Johnson controversy years back. Jon Kitna was not such when he was demoted last year, and neither will Drew IMO.

[Mr. Cynical]

:rofl:
:liar2:

[Canadian'eh!]

And supporting someone for saying it is true when it is not it is even dumber. Show me another thread besides the one I linked to above where I talk about Drew's baggage as a result of him coming here as a savior and failing. Dozer said every day I post about that.

Until you can, :stfu:


I don't think he meant this EXACT point that you are making... which of course is completely bull****.... but trather your ubridled hate of Drew and your constant search for potshots, discrediting stats and all round Anti-Drew attitude.

[DaBills]

Ebe or clump, I need the Salary Cap For Dummies Cliff notes version:

Based on the numbers at the top of this thread, is it actually cheaper to keep DB until after 6/2 because his deadweight and actual salary are a wash?

And if we save more by cutting him later rather than sooner, why wouldn't we just do that and then use the extra money to help resign Pat Williams and/or Jennings?


_________________________

A whacky hunch of which I have nothing to base it on:

He has to restructure if he wants to start because the Bills are the only team that might offer him that start.

Drew and/or his agent will be willing to restructure ONLY IF there is incentive on the table to do so, i.e., the starting QB slot, not just a CHANCE at starting. Perhaps TD would give it to him out of loyalty for helping out the team by restructuring? Dunno.

I don't see Drew thinking of himself as a back-up to anyone still. But if no other team is willing to give him a shot, he's forced to stay and restructure.

NFL coaches know him too well at this point. Especially after MM and TD went out of their way to publicly say at the beginning of the year how they were able to work with him and correct things, yet a 9-7 against a mostly soft schedule says otherwise. And D-coordinators know him all too well: just put six or seven in the box and it's 3-and-out.

My long-shot scenario: Henry and Drew traded as a package deal for a high first round pick and player to be announced later. Don't have the team yet, but you heard it here first.

:crazy:

[Mr. Cynical]

I don't think he meant this EXACT point that you are making... which of course is completely bull****.... but trather your ubridled hate of Drew and your constant search for potshots, discrediting stats and all round Anti-Drew attitude.
Please. He made a direct response to my post and in that response said that I make that point every day. If he had meant "Drew bashing" in general, he would have stated it just like you just did. In addition, in the only other thread I mentioned this point, he made his same point about Drew. So you are barking up the wrong tree.

The difference is that ... as usual ... he started off with a flame, which then turns these threads into pissing matches.

[Canadian'eh!]

The difference is that ... as usual ... he started off with a flame, which then turns these threads into pissing matches.

Yeah, I feel bad that the "amigos" are always getting attacked and picked on for their quietly stated and well reasoned opinons.... damn the "DLC"

[The_Philster]

Yeah, I feel bad that the "amigos" are always getting attacked and picked on for their quietly stated and well reasoned opinons.... damn the "DLC"

:spit:

[Mr. Cynical]

:spit: I thought your biggest pet peeve is liars? I guess it is ok with you for dozer to lie? :idunno:

[The_Philster]

I thought your biggest pet peeve is liars? I guess it is ok with you for dozer to lie? :idunno:

:popcorn: Hey!! I'm eating here...I think you read too much into him talking like it was this specific point you argued ad nauseum. Canadian'eh! said it best, IMO

Carry on
:movie:

[Mr. Cynical]

Well you guys can defend him all you want, he lied and that's all there is to it. I'm done posting in this thread so the movie is over. :;

The End.

[Dozerdog]

:bf1:

[Dozerdog]

<tr>
<td class="alt2"><img src="images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif" border="0" alt="" /></td>
<td class="alt1Active" id="p887746" width="50%"><a class="smallfont" href="showthread.php?p=887746#post887746">What's the effect on th...</a></td>
<td class="alt2" nowrap="nowrap"><span class="smallfont">01-17-2005 <span class="time">10:06 PM</span></span></td>

<td class="alt1" nowrap="nowrap"><a class="smallfont" href="member.php?u=2704">Mr. Cynical</a></td>

<td class="alt2" width="50%"><span class="smallfont"><img src="http://www.billszone.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10003/liar%20smiley.gif" border="0" alt="" title="" class="inlineimg" /> Try for once being a responsible admin. Surprise me.</span></td>
</tr>
:rofl:


Dude- seriously- people will have differing opinions.


It's a message board. People have their opinions on who the QB will be, who we will draft, who we should cut, if George Bush sucks or not, what part religion plays in the word...yadda..yadda..yadda. Not everyone will agree with you. Get used to it. I have.

[Ebenezer]

Ebe or clump, I need the Salary Cap For Dummies Cliff notes version:

Based on the numbers at the top of this thread, is it actually cheaper to keep DB until after 6/2 because his deadweight and actual salary are a wash?

And if we save more by cutting him later rather than sooner, why wouldn't we just do that and then use the extra money to help resign Pat Williams and/or Jennings?

I can't answer that...that is a question for TD...do the Bills think he is worth it and when do they want the cap hit...sorry...

[Canadian'eh!]

:rofl:


Dude- seriously- people will have differing opinions.


It's a message board. People have their opinions on who the QB will be, who we will draft, who we should cut, if George Bush sucks or not, what part religion plays in the word...yadda..yadda..yadda. Not everyone will agree with you. Get used to it. I have.

:shocked:

WHAT!?!?!! I thought message boards exisited so everyone could agree with me or at least so i could drone on and on about my only point until i make everyone sick and tired of reading anything i post because it's so predictable. Then when someone calls me on it i can say they are personally attacking me and over analyze their words and call them liars.

[clumping platelets]

I'll take this option.



If we keep Drew wouldn't he cost us more anyways? I'd rather take a minimal saving than give him more money.


If Mularkey is such a good offensive mind , then he should be able to make do w/ a qb that can hand off the ball. We can find qb's out there that can do that for way less.


If we don't cut Drew and he's our starter then the only way we win anyways is if he hands the ball too . :idunno: .


Then you are paying his $1.05 million roster bonus

[clumping platelets]

Ebe or clump, I need the Salary Cap For Dummies Cliff notes version:

Based on the numbers at the top of this thread, is it actually cheaper to keep DB until after 6/2 because his deadweight and actual salary are a wash?

And if we save more by cutting him later rather than sooner, why wouldn't we just do that and then use the extra money to help resign Pat Williams and/or Jennings?


If you wait until after 6/1 without changing the date of paying the roster bonus, you give Drew $1.05 million. It is "cheaper" from the sense that the remaining signing bonus amortization is applied to both 2005 & 2006 ($2,166,666 each year) instead of all $4.333 million in 2005. But if the plan is to part ways, cut him before paying the roster bonus, take all remaining cap hit in 2005, and move on. The difference is $2,166,666 - $1,050,000 = $1,116,666 extra to release him before paying the roster bonus

[DaBills]

If you wait until after 6/1 without changing the date of paying the roster bonus, you give Drew $1.05 million. It is "cheaper" from the sense that the remaining signing bonus amortization is applied to both 2005 & 2006 ($2,166,666 each year) instead of all $4.333 million in 2005. But if the plan is to part ways, cut him before paying the roster bonus, take all remaining cap hit in 2005, and move on. The difference is $2,166,666 - $1,050,000 = $1,116,666 extra to release him before paying the roster bonus


Thanks gents.

[Earthquake Enyart]

If Drew is cut now, you have a lot of money in dead cap, plus the money it would take to sign another QB that isn't a whole helluva lot better. You would have too much money tied up that could be used to address other problems. You're better off keeping Drew for one more year.

I also think that JP is the man next year. Ralph isn't paying him all that money to ride the bench.

[FTG]

I thought your biggest pet peeve is liars? I guess it is ok with you for dozer to lie? :idunno:

If Phils pet peeve was liars he would hate himself

[alohabillsfan]

I think that TD will trade DB before he cuts him! What will that do to our cap? I believe that we would only be responible for any bonus money. Hey the cowboys need a QB I'm sure Parcells would take him back. Thoughts?

[Canadian'eh!]

If Phils pet peeve was liars he would hate himself


Yet another stunning personal attack. going for a record.

[FTG]

Yet another stunning personal attack. going for a record.


Pot kettle black. It's not an attack if it's true

[Ebenezer]

I think that TD will trade DB before he cuts him! What will that do to our cap? I believe that we would only be responible for any bonus money. Hey the cowboys need a QB I'm sure Parcells would take him back. Thoughts?
trade is the same as cutting...we would be responsible for the dead cap money.

[justasportsfan]

But if the plan is to part ways, cut him before paying the roster bonus, take all remaining cap hit in 2005, and move on. The difference is $2,166,666 - $1,050,000 = $1,116,666 extra to release him before paying the roster bonuswhat are you waiting for then? Do it!!!! :posrep:

[Ebenezer]

what are you waiting for then? Do it!!!! :posrep:
again, that money would just be used to bring in a new QB...do you go with somebody who knows the system or bring in somebody who would need to learn?

[justasportsfan]

again, that money would just be used to bring in a new QB...do you go with somebody who knows the system or bring in somebody who would need to learn?Travis Brown :D.

[FTG]

again, that money would just be used to bring in a new QB...do you go with somebody who knows the system or bring in somebody who would need to learn?


Somebody else. If they are gonna go with Losman they should part with Drew. Keeping him just leads to controversy

[Ebenezer]

Travis Brown :D.
belongs to Indi.

[justasportsfan]

belongs to Indi.
Flutie :D.

[Ebenezer]

Flutie :D.
the team cured it's cancer once...

[justasportsfan]

the team cured it's cancer once... I wasn't serious about taking Rob Johnson :D.

[clumping platelets]

Kelly Holcomb could be possible

[justasportsfan]

Kelly Holcomb could be possiblehow hard can it be to ask the qb to hand off the ball ?

[Ebenezer]

how hard can it be to ask the qb to hand off the ball ?
how much does he want to be paid to hand off the ball??

[FTG]

JP can hand the ball off. Why do we need to bring someone in? Just re-sign Matthews.

[justasportsfan]

how much does he want to be paid to hand off the ball??A quarter than what we're paying Drew? :idunno:

[Ebenezer]

JP can hand the ball off. Why do we need to bring someone in? Just re-sign Matthews.
and you're #3?

[justasportsfan]

and you're #3?I can be for half a million and I'll do a better job than Drew :D.

[Ebenezer]

I can be for half a million and I'll do a better job than Drew :D.
and the opponent puts 11 in the box and blitzes....next.

[FTG]

and you're #3?


Whoever will sign for vet min or a young guy. Chances are #3 will never see the field anyway

[Typ0]

Kelly Holcomb could be possible

not a bad choice.

[Mr. Cynical]

Somebody else. If they are gonna go with Losman they should part with Drew. Keeping him just leads to controversy:mex:

[Mr. Cynical]

A quarter than what we're paying Drew? :idunno:
:mex:

[Earthquake Enyart]

Kelly Holcomb could be possible
+$4 mil in dead cap for cutting Drew. 2-3 mil+ for signing Holcombe, a guy who couldn't beat out Jeff Garcia or Couch for that matter.

Now how in the hell can we afford a LT?

[Mr. Cynical]

and you're #3?
your

You missed one EE. :;

[Earthquake Enyart]

your

You missed one EE. :;
No I didn't. Eb is right. :snicker:

[Ebenezer]

No I didn't. Eb is right. :snicker:
that is what I meant...if I meant otherwise I would have said "and your #3 would be?"

[Mr. Cynical]

that is what I meant...if I meant otherwise I would have said "and your #3 would be?"
:bs:

[Ebenezer]

:bs:
funny, justa came back and answered that he could be the #3...

[Mr. Cynical]

funny, justa came back and answered that he could be the #3...
Yes, which also works as a reponse to "and your #3?".

[Dozerdog]

Whoever will sign for vet min or a young guy. Chances are #3 will never see the field anyway

Tell that to the Bears, and the 49ers.

I'm all for giving JP his chance to win the job. But there are a couple of issues people seem to gloss over-

1) Matthews is not a guarantee to re-sign in Buffalo. Lots of QB starved teams out there - or in desperate need of a vet backup will be willing to pay Matthews a decent amount- and give him something else- a very possible chance to actively compete for playing time.

2) Vet backups are immensly overlooked for their value to a team. Just look around - they brought back Jeff George for cryin' out loud! I'd keep Bledsoe as an insurance policy if it's going to roiughly cost us the same to toss or keep him.

3) Swapping garbage for garbage (bringing in a Coutch, Shaun King, Jeff Blake) might make you feel better for a short while, but in the long run there is no real value to doing it. Beleive it or not, you could be getting worse and causing more harm instead of improving. Not like those guys will suddenly bloom overnight. If there was a 2002 Delehome or a 2003 Volek available, then make a run. But I don't see one of those guys on the UFA lists this year.


If you can't get Matthews back, I like the idea of Holcombe as an option.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Tell that to the Bears, and the 49ers.

I'm all for giving JP his chance to win the job. But there are a couple of issues people seem to gloss over-

1) Matthews is not a guarantee to re-sign in Buffalo. Lots of QB starved teams out there - or in desperate need of a vet backup will be willing to pay Matthews a decent amount- and give him something else- a very possible chance to actively compete for playing time.

2) Vet backups are immensly overlooked for their value to a team. Just look around - they brought back Jeff George for cryin' out loud! I'd keep Bledsoe as an insurance policy if it's going to roiughly cost us the same to toss or keep him.

3) Swapping garbage for garbage (bringing in a Coutch, Shaun King, Jeff Blake) might make you feel better for a short while, but in the long run there is no real value to doing it. Beleive it or not, you could be getting worse and causing more harm instead of improving. Not like those guys will suddenly bloom overnight. If there was a 2002 Delehome or a 2003 Volek available, then make a run. But I don't see one of those guys on the UFA lists this year.


If you can't get Matthews back, I like the idea of Holcombe as an option.
You had me until the end. I'm not for spending any money for Holcombe. We have better places for our money.

Keep Drew. Give JP every chance to win the job. Pick up a cheap guy at the vet minimum for #3. :::

[Ebenezer]

You had me until the end. I'm not for spending any money for Holcombe. We have better places for our money.

Keep Drew. Give JP every chance to win the job. Pick up a cheap guy at the vet minimum for #3. :::
Holcombe or any other servicable vet shaking free (Fiedler, etc) is going to cost as much money (or close) as to keep DB...might as well keep somebody who knows the system...especially if he'll take a pay cut.

[FTG]

1) Matthews is not a guarantee to re-sign in Buffalo. Lots of QB starved teams out there - or in desperate need of a vet backup will be willing to pay Matthews a decent amount- and give him something else- a very possible chance to actively compete for playing time.

.


Why did'nt anyone want him last year? He gonna go from a guy no team wanted to a guy they will offer a chance to compete for playing time? What do you base that on.............a TD pass against SanFran?

[Tatonka]

Why did'nt anyone want him last year? He gonna go from a guy no team wanted to a guy they will offer a chance to compete for playing time? What do you base that on.............a TD pass against SanFran?

:snicker:

[Earthquake Enyart]

Holcombe or any other servicable vet shaking free (Fiedler, etc) is going to cost as much money (or close) as to keep DB...might as well keep somebody who knows the system...especially if he'll take a pay cut.
If you cut DB, there will be significant dead cap money that we can't spend.

$4 mil dead cap for cutting Drew, plus what ever you have to pay Holcombe (I would imagine some interest will drive the price up to a $2-3 mil cap hit at least.). That's 6-7 mil for backup QB's when you could just keep Drew and sign a retread at the vet min for #3. That will leave money for OL.

[Ebenezer]

If you cut DB, there will be significant dead cap money that we can't spend.

$4 mil dead cap for cutting Drew, plus what ever you have to pay Holcombe (I would imagine some interest will drive the price up to a $2-3 mil cap hit at least.). That's 6-7 mil for backup QB's when you could just keep Drew and sign a retread at the vet min for #3. That will leave money for OL.
not exactly...DB's "dead cap" money is money that counts against the cap anyway..."dead cap" is just a term used when the player is no longer on the team...if it were as easy as cutting DB and getting a back up at $2 or $3M then there would be some savings...it is the escalation of the bonus that prevents the team from saving money if they cut DB and bring in somebody at that price...it's symantics but the bottom line is that if you cut DB and bring in somebody of value the cost will be the same as if you just kept DB.

[Earthquake Enyart]

not exactly...DB's "dead cap" money is money that counts against the cap anyway..."dead cap" is just a term used when the player is no longer on the team...if it were as easy as cutting DB and getting a back up at $2 or $3M then there would be some savings...it is the escalation of the bonus that prevents the team from saving money if they cut DB and bring in somebody at that price...it's symantics but the bottom line is that if you cut DB and bring in somebody of value the cost will be the same as if you just kept DB.
I understand. But if we keep Drew, we don't need Holcombe or who ever. That is the money that we can spend elsewhere. The Drew money is gone regardless, whether we cut him or not.

[Ebenezer]

I understand. But if we keep Drew, we don't need Holcombe or who ever. That is the money that we can spend elsewhere. The Drew money is gone regardless, whether we cut him or not.
oh, ok, my bad...from that standpoint yes...bringing in a Holcombe if you keep DB is wasteful.

[justasportsfan]

funny, justa came back and answered that he could be the #3...I really could. I am 5'9" and can run and scramble. Put me on the team and I'll stab #11 in the back. I don't have a mullet though.

[Iehoshua]

I really could. I am 5'9" and can run and scramble. Put me on the team and I'll stab #11 in the back. I don't have a mullet though.

The 'old' #7 should've used a real knife on the 'old' #11...
:oj:

[Ebenezer]

I really could. I am 5'9" and can run and scramble. Put me on the team and I'll stab #11 in the back. I don't have a mullet though.
they put you on the field and every D-Coor salivates, pops a woody, puts 11 in the box and blitzes the crap out of you...

[justasportsfan]

they put you on the field and every D-Coor salivates, pops a woody, puts 11 in the box and blitzes the crap out of you...they'll have to catch me first. :D.

[Ebenezer]

they'll have to catch me first. :D.
since most of them can run a sub 5.5 40 I think they can succeed...:chuckle:

[justasportsfan]

since most of them can run a sub 5.5 40 that's it? Pffft. :tired:

[Ebenezer]

that's it? Pffft. :tired:
:lmao:

[Mr. Cynical]

Why did'nt anyone want him last year? He gonna go from a guy no team wanted to a guy they will offer a chance to compete for playing time? What do you base that on.............a TD pass against SanFran?
:rofl:

[mybills]

I really could. I am 5'9" and can run and scramble. Put me on the team and I'll stab #11 in the back. I don't have a mullet though.
:rofl: :mex: