Nate Snubbed Again

[juice]

Clements had a better season than McCallister and now Surtain gets the the Pro Bowl bid as a replacement.

Nate had a better season while the Bills secondary was constantly changing.
www.miamidolphins.com/home/home_index.asp

[Stewie]

As much as I would like to see Nate play in a meaningless game and risk getting injured, this gives him less ammo to ask for $$$ next year. Yep, this is a good thing.

[juice]

As much as I would like to see Nate play in a meaningless game and risk getting injured, this gives him less ammo to ask for $$$ next year. Yep, this is a good thing.Risk Management should start with our Punt Return duties being handed over to Fast Freddie.. as far as the Money issue Nate will have to be paid like a top 3 cover corner next year because of his youth.

[jamze132]

I think the world saw how we lost the first game of the season.

[YardRat]

Risk Management should start with our Punt Return duties being handed over to Fast Freddie.. as far as the Money issue Nate will have to be paid like a top 3 cover corner next year because of his youth.
I agree with the punt return duties, but if Clements is going to be looking for Top 3 dollars, you might as well start posting threads now about who his replacement is going to be.

[G. Host]

I think the world saw how we lost the first game of the season.
That was one of the dumb plays of the week. And I believe substitutes are now determined by coach of the AFC Championship losing team and I doubt Cowher thinks Nate is a great CB.

[juice]

That was one of the dumb plays of the week. And I believe substitutes are now determined by coach of the AFC Championship losing team and I doubt Cowher thinks Nate is a great CB.7 Tackles, 2 FF, and an Int. return for a TD in the final game.. Cowher must have a short memory if he thinks that performance wasn't Pro Bowl calliber.

[Philagape]

I think Pro Bowl alternates are determined by the voting

[jamze132]

I thought alternates where chosen by the coach of each Pro Bowl team. But I am not sure how the coach is chosen. I thought it was the two coaches from the previous Superbowl, kind fo like in baseball.

[jamze132]

7 Tackles, 2 FF, and an Int. return for a TD in the final game.. Cowher must have a short memory if he thinks that performance wasn't Pro Bowl calliber.
Ya gotta admit, Nate looks like Pro Bowl material one minute and Chris Watson the next. I don't get it. However he is getting to the point in his career when he can really excell and be a top 3 corner. Most DB's don't come into there own until they are 29-30.

[YardRat]

I thought alternates where chosen by the coach of each Pro Bowl team. But I am not sure how the coach is chosen. I thought it was the two coaches from the previous Superbowl, kind fo like in baseball.
Alternates are done by the results of the voting. The coaches are from the two teams that lost the conference championship games, and each coach gets to add one player of their choice to the squad, regardless of the votes.

[juice]

Ya gotta admit, Nate looks like Pro Bowl material one minute and Chris Watson the next. I don't get it. However he is getting to the point in his career when he can really excell and be a top 3 corner. Most DB's don't come into there own until they are 29-30.Nate pretty much looked like a top 5 corner this season, which was his best in TT and Passes defensed.

At times he had no support from the safties and the Bills lack of a consistent pass rush, but at no point did he look like a Chris Watson.. not only does he have the most Ints every year but he also causes the most FF.

Clements will be a huge FA to retain next year and it will take top 5 money to do it unless this team wins the AFC or the SB.. TD had better get ready to come off some real money or he's gone.

Look at his stats starting with his rookie year.. he has steadily progressed.. Pro Bowl Snub.

[colin]

yeah, he is not always dominating but neither is any other corner in the NFL.

he is a game breaker, and a top 5 corner, might be a bit more of a gambler than we need at times, but he is getting better and an int for a TD here and there is worth SOME risk taking.

he is better than every corner taken his year and after in the NFL, that says something.

[juice]

yeah, he is not always dominating but neither is any other corner in the NFL.

he is a game breaker, and a top 5 corner, might be a bit more of a gambler than we need at times, but he is getting better and an int for a TD here and there is worth SOME risk taking.

he is better than every corner taken his year and after in the NFL, that says something.He tends to gamble occasionally but that should subside as he becomes more comfortable with his fellow DBs and gains confidence in their ability to back him up. This defensive backfield was a work in progress throughout most of the season.

Youth equates to value at the CB position and Nate just turned 25 a month ago.

[Tatonka]

i still cant believe izelle reese and rubin brown didnt make the probowl.

[Jan Reimers]

Re:

Nate Clements not making the Pro Bowl.

Who Cares?

[juice]

i still cant believe izelle reese and rubin brown didnt make the probowl.Maybe you can bring up that issue on your call in show with Wys.. I'd love to hear his opinion on CoyBoy.

Did you really think Wire would be a Great DB, or was that just something that you and your Hero came up with to up the ratings on your Failed Sports talk show?

Your position was that Wire would take the starters job from Reese, Is that still your opinion.

I think Wire will be out of a job just like you are as an Anal-Lysts.. stick to you daytime job Tonk.

[juice]

Re:

Nate Clements not making the Pro Bowl.

Who Cares?As a Bills fan you should care Jan.. not to mention the other people who posted on this thread and actually had something to add to it.

If you dont care maybe you should pick another team to root for.

[DraftBoy]

Nate pretty much looked like a top 5 corner this season, which was his best in TT and Passes defensed.

At times he had no support from the safties and the Bills lack of a consistent pass rush, but at no point did he look like a Chris Watson.. not only does he have the most Ints every year but he also causes the most FF.

Clements will be a huge FA to retain next year and it will take top 5 money to do it unless this team wins the AFC or the SB.. TD had better get ready to come off some real money or he's gone.

Look at his stats starting with his rookie year.. he has steadily progressed.. Pro Bowl Snub.


How quickly you forget week 1, where all he had to do was knock down the damn pass, granted I think he should of gotten the pro bowl spot but if he wants top 5 money, id send his ass packing.

[Tatonka]

Your position was that Wire would take the starters job from Reese, Is that still your opinion.



actually.. reese was benched for wire.. :rofl:

then wire was benched for rashad baker.. and then baker split time with vincent when vincent came back.

wire was moved by to SS behind milloy.. and still continued to play through out the season..

how did reese do through out the season? oh.. he didnt.. your boy got booted to inactive status and never saw the field again..

now he will be cut.. just like your idol.. ruben brown.

so i was right about reese.. he did lose his job to wire.. :dance:

all in all.. your favorite player in the world, reese.. he actually sucked WORSE than my boy, coy.. who sucked pretty bad in his own right.. so what does that say about your talent analysis? it says what everyone here already knew.. :roflmao:

[Tatonka]

As a Bills fan you should care Jan.. not to mention the other people who posted on this thread and actually had something to add to it.

If you dont care maybe you should pick another team to root for.

negged.

:clap:

[juice]

actually.. reese was benched for wire.. :rofl:

then wire was benched for rashad baker.. and then baker split time with vincent when vincent came back.

wire was moved by to SS behind milloy.. and still continued to play through out the season..

how did reese do through out the season? oh.. he didnt.. your boy got booted to inactive status and never saw the field again..

now he will be cut.. just like your idol.. ruben brown.

so i was right about reese.. he did lose his job to wire.. :dance:

all in all.. your favorite player in the world, reese.. he actually sucked WORSE than my boy, coy.. who sucked pretty bad in his own right.. so what does that say about your talent analysis? it says what everyone here already knew.. :roflmao:So Now your saying that Wire didn't play well at SS or FS and that he was a waste of a roster spot.. Your Flip Flopping Tonk.

You posted, that Wire would win the starting FS position after failing at SS, and would be the starter for years to come.. I said that Wire would never be a more effective starter at FS than Reese because he had no natural instincts.

You said he would develope the natural instincts to become a great DB and I said you were wrong.. is this correct?

[The Natrix]

:movie:

[Tatonka]

Your position was that Wire would take the starters job from Reese, Is that still your opinion.



I said that Wire would never be a more effective starter at FS than Reese because he had no natural instincts.



you need to read YOUR OWN posts before spouting off at the mouth..

YOU said YOURSELF that my position was wire would take the job from reese..

WIRE DID TAKE THE JOB FROM REESE.. AND REESE WAS SO BAD THAT HE WAS PUT ON THE INACTIVE LIST.. so his natural instict sat around and watched in plain clothes.. while wire continued to play and contribute all year..

dude.. you were wrong.. you look like an ass every time you try and dedend izelle reese.. i have stated i was wrong about coy wires skills.. but he still is a member of this team who contributed, which is a hell of a lot more than izelle reeses worthless ass can say.

[juice]

you need to read YOUR OWN posts before spouting off at the mouth..

YOU said YOURSELF that my position was wire would take the job from reese..

WIRE DID TAKE THE JOB FROM REESE.. AND REESE WAS SO BAD THAT HE WAS PUT ON THE INACTIVE LIST.. so his natural instict sat around and watched in plain clothes.. while wire continued to play and contribute all year..

dude.. you were wrong.. you look like an ass every time you try and defense izelle reese.. i have stated i was wrong about coy wires skills.. but he still is a member of this team who contributed, which is a hell of a lot more than izelle reeses worthless ass can say.I'm not defending Reese as much as I am saying you had no idea what you were talking about in saying that Coy could be a starting DB in this League.. I only said that Wire wouldn't be a Player at SS or FS because he cant cover.

You look like an Ass when you try to call Wire a DB or even an impact player in the NFL.. plus it become evident you can't tell the difference between a good college LB and an effective Pro DB.

Face it Tonk CoyBoy Sucks and you can't judge talent.

[helmetguy]

I'd say he has a better eye for talent than you, juice. I mean, even if Wire isn't a stud FS, he's still on the team. Reese, however is still below Wire on the depth chart.

[juice]

I'd say he has a better eye for talent than you, juice. I mean, even if Wire isn't a stud FS, he's still on the team. Reese, however is still below Wire on the depth chart.I think your Helmet is on too tight Guy..

Wire was a wasted roster spot this year.. and the Coy Wire Experiment was a major reason we got off to an 0-4 start and missed the playoffs.

At least Reese adds needed depth at the safety position.. what does Wire add depth on special teams? There is no position that Wire can effectively play in the NFL, not LB, not CB, not SS, and not FS.

Gunner on special teams doesn't earn you a roster spot in the NFL.. I expect Wire will be cut before the season starts.

[Philagape]

Face it, you both suck. :D


:jk:

[ShadowHawk7]

Anyways, back to the topic, Nate did get snubbed, the man is a playmaker, like Spikes, and Adams. Can anyone say possible tranisition tag?

[Tatonka]

I think your Helmet is on too tight Guy..

Wire was a wasted roster spot this year.. and the Coy Wire Experiment was a major reason we got off to an 0-4 start and missed the playoffs.

At least Reese adds needed depth at the safety position.. what does Wire add depth on special teams? There is no position that Wire can effectively play in the NFL, not LB, not CB, not SS, and not FS.

Gunner on special teams doesn't earn you a roster spot in the NFL.. I expect Wire will be cut before the season starts.

how was wire the reason for the 0-4 start, juice? your boy reeses was the STARTER then..

and how is REESE not more of a waste of a roster spot? he was INACTIVE!!! at least wire contributed something..

you keep pointing to wire.. when the fact is, you were ALL BOUT REESE.. and you dont want to talk about that now.. you were so wrong about him that you said he would not have his job taken by what you consider a waste of a roster spot (coy).. not only was his job taken, not only was he benched.. he was passed by EVERY DB on the roster and made inactive..

by the way.. REESE was the one standing right there on the jacksonville catch.. REESE cost us that game and the playoffs as much as anyone on the team.

your such a joke, juice. you cant even defend your stance on reese.. you just wont talk about it.

maybe reese and his all pro skills that make him an incredible FS will go to chicago, and you can start rooting for them.. since your dad is already on the team.. mr. juice brown.

[DraftBoy]

Anyways, back to the topic, Nate did get snubbed, the man is a playmaker, like Spikes, and Adams. Can anyone say possible tranisition tag?


God I hope not, He doesnt deserve that type money.

[jamze132]

Alternates are done by the results of the voting. The coaches are from the two teams that lost the conference championship games, and each coach gets to add one player of their choice to the squad, regardless of the votes.
Good info. Thanks

[juice]

Once again Tonk my position from day one was that Coy Would Not be a more effective starter than Reese. You started the Coy/Reese competition and maybe I fed into it a little just jerkin' your chain, But you were absolutely convinced that your boy Coy could be a difference maker and elevate the play of the defense as a unit.

Did I ever post that Reese should start over Vincent? No, just that Wire would Never Ever be a functional SS or FS in the NFL and that if we were going to commit to the Coy Wire experiment it would be a waste of time.. We'd be better off leaving Reese in there because he had experience at the DB position.

Yor the Card carrying member of the Coy Wire fan club, I'm just a realist who knows Burnt Toast when I see it.

And CoyBoy was the one falling down and not making a play on the ball Wk. 1 against the Jags. CoyBoy the Bum. :negrep:

The 0-4 start was partially a product of the Wire Experiment goin' bad.. He should've concentrated on being a backup at SS where he had played before in the NFL instead of pretending to be a FS and wasting the team's time and limiting his defensive reps.

Maybe he could have been more than a liability as a DB backing up Lawyer when he got injured.

[Philagape]

Coy, Reese, Coy, Reese ... let's talk about someone else ... like Drew Bledsoe!

[juice]

Coy, Reese, Coy, Reese ... let's talk about someone else ... like Drew Bledsoe!I feel-Ya Phil.. what's you opinion on Nate should he have been given the recognition he deserved by being invited to Hawaii?

[DraftBoy]

I feel-Ya Phil.. what's you opinion on Nate should he have been given the recognition he deserved by being invited to Hawaii?


Yea he shoulda been invited but he damn sure doesnt deserve top 5 money though either.

[juice]

Yea he shoulda been invited but he damn sure doesnt deserve top 5 money though either.DraftBoy can you please name 5 that were better than Nate this year and post their Stats for Comparison.. I cant name 3 so actually he may be worth top 3 type dollars.. Start with the Pro Bowlers.

Why would you not want to pay the man for a job well done?

[Philagape]

I feel-Ya Phil.. what's you opinion on Nate should he have been given the recognition he deserved by being invited to Hawaii?

He had a decent year, made some big plays, also gave up big plays. I don't get to watch other CBs all year so I can't say how he did in comparison. Pro Bowl balloting isn't infallible, as is often pointed out in the Ruben Brown debates.

I know that stats sometimes don't tell the whole story. For example, Seattle's Ken Lucas had 6 INTs, one for a TD, 2 fumble recoveries, 21 passes defended, 70 tackles .... did he get snubbed too? I think the best measure of a CB is shutting down opponents ... I'd have to go through every game by every CB and see opponents' WR stats, and I'd rather not.

I was just amused at this thread ... 2 Bills fans, each of whom supported a player who didn't do well, arguing over who sucked worse. Take a time out and go to your rooms!

[The_Philster]

Gunner on special teams doesn't earn you a roster spot in the NFL.Hmmm...and how long have you been a Bills fan? :scratch:

[Tatonka]

juice has never heard of steve tasker.

[The_Philster]

juice has never heard of steve tasker.

Obviously :snicker:

[juice]

Hmmm...and how long have you been a Bills fan? :scratch:I meant in the 21st century.. Tasker played years before the OJ trial.

[Tatonka]

sure you did, juice.. :up:

[The_Philster]

I meant in the 21st century.. Tasker played years before the OJ trial.

:rofl:
Nicole Brown Simpson was killed in June of 1994
Tasker played through the 1997 season


Best quit while you're behind

[helmetguy]

Silly Tonk, he meant the 21st Century, in a parallel universe. I'm disappointed in you Tonk! tsk, tsk

[Tatonka]

does it surprise you at all, phil?

your asking juice to quit while he is behind.. hell.. he is still defending brown and reese.. you think he will ever quit?

[Tatonka]

Silly Tonk, he meant the 21st Century, in a parallel universe. I'm disappointed in you Tonk! tsk, tsk

my bad... :crazy:

[juice]

:rofl:
Nicole Brown Simpson was killed in June of 1994
Tasker played through the 1997 season


Best quit while you're behindTasker entered the League in 1986.. OJ was found not-guilty in 1997.. or did you forget Phil?

[helmetguy]

Um...Juice? He (Simpson) was acqitted on Oct. 3, 1995. (Not that it has a whit to do with this thread) Are you SURE you're in college? Where do you go, The University of Southern North Elmer?

[DraftBoy]

DraftBoy can you please name 5 that were better than Nate this year and post their Stats for Comparison.. I cant name 3 so actually he may be worth top 3 type dollars.. Start with the Pro Bowlers.

Why would you not want to pay the man for a job well done?

Thankfully for the Bills sake we dont choose to pay 1 yr wonders top 5 money...He has to consistently do this to prove to me he's worth top 5 money;

Bailey, Woodson, Madison, Buchannan, McAlister at the very least, Sheldon Brown and Lito Sheppard had amazing years too they worth top 5 money?

[juice]

Thankfully for the Bills sake we dont choose to pay 1 yr wonders top 5 money...He has to consistently do this to prove to me he's worth top 5 money;

Bailey, Woodson, Madison, Buchannan, McAlister at the very least, Sheldon Brown and Lito Sheppard had amazing years too they worth top 5 money?Check the stats again Draftboy, Clements has had better stats over the last 4 years including his rookie year than everyone you've named here.

Only R. Barber has had slightly better stats and he's a HoFer.. If Nate was a 1 year wonder it must've began with his Rookie year with steady progression.

[juice]

Um...Juice? He (Simpson) was acqitted on Oct. 3, 1995. (Not that it has a whit to do with this thread) Are you SURE you're in college? Where do you go, The University of Southern North Elmer?I'm old school Helmet, I remember OJ in his HayDay, I was probably in college when you were in Grade school.

I attended ECU but have been an ACC fan all my life. And I currently reside in the heart of ACC Country.

[helmetguy]

Waste of a diploma, then, Juice. I would think that you would at least check a simple fact before questioning someone else' memory.

BTW, you must be ancient. When I was in grade school, I was watching Kemp, Bemiller, et al at the Rock Pile.

[The_Philster]

Tasker entered the League in 1986.. OJ was found not-guilty in 1997.. or did you forget Phil?

Well..you got one date right :lmao:

[Philagape]

Stats are not the best measure of defensive backs because:
1. Offenses throw away from the best defenders.
2. They depend a lot on the rest of the defense. A good pash rush causes QBs to make mistakes, helping the secondary. How good or bad the run defense is determines how often the other team will throw.
3. They depend on how the game goes. In a blowout, one team will pass a lot more than the other.

Defensive players' stats involving the ball are totally unlike offensive players, who handle the ball many times more. Defensive plays involving the ball are rare and often random in nature. This is why I'd never do a fantasy league with IDPs, because stats don't reflect who the best players are.

As I pointed out earlier, statistically, Ken Lucas had just a good a year as Nate. So did Dunta Robinson. Are they just as good a CB? Robinson, Andre Dyson and Chris Gamble had just as many INTs. Kelly Herndon led the league in passes defended, followed by Brian Kelly and Rashean Mathis.

When it comes to DBs, stats mean very little

[The_Philster]

Stats are not the best measure of defensive backs or of anyone for that matter...they tell so little of the story

[Tatonka]

Um...Juice? He (Simpson) was acqitted on Oct. 3, 1995. (Not that it has a whit to do with this thread) Are you SURE you're in college? Where do you go, The University of Southern North Elmer?


:roflmao:

he cant even get it right on his favorite murderer!! i love guys who proved points with completely inaccurate info.. a juice tradmark. :clap:

[LtBillsFan66]

http://buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=3092

[djjimkelly]

well not only am i pumped for sweet nate LOL hes gonna be a wrecking force on PS2 madden next year lol so im more pumped for me when i have a 95 overall CB in madden for my online leagues

[juice]

http://buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=3092Good Find FanOne.. Nate should've been named the replacement over Surtain anyway.