This upcoming season is making me nervous....

[OpIv37]

because we're putting all our faith into a virtual rookie. Don't get me wrong- eventually we're going to have to develop JP and Drew hasn't been getting it done. But since it looks like Drew's going to leave, I'm really starting to worry. If JP gets hurt or just doesn't play well, the list of jokers, has-beens and pretenders being thrown around as his back up is flat out scary.

I really want to see what JP can do, but TD and company are betting the farm on him. Our whole season and our future are in his hands now.

[Big M]

, the list of jokers, has-beens and pretenders being thrown around as his back up is flat out scary.


As along as the cursed #11 jersey is not worn, we're fine. :peace:

[Novacane]

I'd rather be worried because an untested QB is starting than depressed because a proven failure is starting

[Tatonka]

i am really getting sick of people referring to jp as a rookie.

[The_Philster]

i am really getting sick of people referring to jp as a rookie.

He said virtual rookie..which is what he is.

[DanS]

kordell is still out there lol

[Novacane]

A virtual rookie only in playing time. He still has had a year to learn the play book and become comfortable with the big change from college to NFL life. The setback from his injury is overhyped IMO

[Tatonka]

He said virtual rookie..which is what he is.

he will have 2 training camps under his belt.. a complete understanding of the playbook.. a full season of watching and learning.. and got some game experience..

i guess marcus price was a virtual rookie too when we got him, even though he had been in the nfl for 6 year?

give me a break...

either he is a green rookie who doesnt know the nfl at all.. or he isnt.

losman isnt.

[ScottLawrence]

Im not nervous at all.


I expect JP to struggle early and often.


I'll start to worry if his play doesn't improve as the season goes on.

[The_Philster]

kordell is still out there lol
I'd rather bring back Ferguson....he may be ancient but at least he has a brain.

he will have 2 training camps under his belt.. a complete understanding of the playbook.. a full season of watching and learning.. and got some game experience..

i guess marcus price was a virtual rookie too when we got him, even though he had been in the nfl for 6 year?

give me a break...

either he is a green rookie who doesnt know the nfl at all.. or he isnt.

losman isnt.
What was I thinking...practice time means nothing :rolleyes:

[OpIv37]

i am really getting sick of people referring to jp as a rookie.


A virtual rookie only in playing time. He still has had a year to learn the play book and become comfortable with the big change from college to NFL life. The setback from his injury is overhyped IMO

First, as Phil pointed out, I said "virtual rookie". And second, in terms of playing time, he might as well be a rookie. He played in what- 3 or 4 games and never even played a full quarter on his own. He only threw a handful of passes. Yes, a year on the sidelins learning the playbook and the NFL lifestyle help, but it won't prepare a QB for the full speed and force of a live NFL game. This year will be his first year of playing when the the game still matters.

[Tatonka]

What was I thinking...practice time means nothing :rolleyes:

if you think practice time means nothing, then your a :loser:

[The_Philster]

if you think practice time means nothing, then your a :loser:

:rofl: You're the one implying that practice time means nothing...or did you forget all the time that JP missed due to injury?

[Tatonka]

fine.. your right.. having a year to learn the playbook.. and 2 years of training camp under his belt.. and some game experience.. means nothing.. your right..

i would much rather just draft a guy who is green and toss him in.. i mean, because that is essentially what losman is.. he is a virtual rookie who has no advantages over anyone we draft this year.. he will forget everything he learned and he gained nothing from over a year of being part of an nfl team and getting snaps with the first team and playing in some games. nothing at all.. i am sure jp would agree competely.

[Tatonka]

:rofl: You're the one implying that practice time means nothing...or did you forget all the time that JP missed due to injury?


he got plenty of practice time.. his time he was down with the leg injury, which was what, 6 weeks?, he got ahead of the game learning the playbook.

not to mention he is back in buffalo practicing 2 months ahead of time..

[The_Philster]

he got plenty of practice time.. his time he was down with the leg injury, which was what, 6 weeks?, he got ahead of the game learning the playbook.

not to mention he is back in buffalo practicing 2 months ahead of time..

reading doesn't prepare you as much as actual practice...he missed 6 weeks of practice time? then 6 weeks into the season we can stop calling him a virtual rookie

[Philagape]

A full year of workouts, minicamps, training camp, preseason and studying is a HUGE difference over being a "rookie." Everything I've read about the issue has said or implied that the team has confidence in JP.

I'm excited because of the money that's being freed up by Moulds and Drew's impending exit, and having no first-rounder. If there's any year in which we don't need one, this is it. We need depth more than a single impact player; we already have plenty of those on both sides of the ball. Our 2005 "first-rounder" is Losman, so he'll have an advantage over anyone drafted this year. This year is about further development under MM and crew. Plus, the Henry situation is win-win; either we'll have one of the best backup RBs in the league, or we'll get some value in return for him.

2005 :up:

[LtBillsFan66]

No one knows anything at this point. If he's indeed the starter, he has my full support. I'm not anointing him savior yet until I see what he can do in a real game.

[The_Philster]

No one knows anything at this point. If he's indeed the starter, he has my full support. I'm not anointing him savior yet until I see what he can do in a real game.

:up:

[Tatonka]

Bitter bledsoe backers club?

[LtBillsFan66]

Bitter bledsoe backers club?
?

[OpIv37]

fine.. your right.. having a year to learn the playbook.. and 2 years of training camp under his belt.. and some game experience.. means nothing.. your right..

i would much rather just draft a guy who is green and toss him in.. i mean, because that is essentially what losman is.. he is a virtual rookie who has no advantages over anyone we draft this year.. he will forget everything he learned and he gained nothing from over a year of being part of an nfl team and getting snaps with the first team and playing in some games. nothing at all.. i am sure jp would agree competely.

first, I don't know where this came from, because no one suggested drafting a QB. Second, even if someone had, it wouldn't work because this draft is thin on QB's and we're low on picks anyway. My point is simply that Losman is inexperienced (notice the term "inexperience" implies "lack of experience" and not "no experience whatsoever" as you assumed) and unproven, which are the same qualities possessed by rookies. And all the potential back-ups suck. That makes me nervous.

To be honest, I'm not sure there are any other options- we could overpay for Drew Brees, which would be stupid considering what we already have invested in Losman and the fact that Brees has had only one good season out of 3. We could stick with Bledsoe, but so far that hasn't worked and there's no logical reason to believe that can change this year.

To me, what this means is that I have low expectations for '05.

[ShadowHawk7]

Seriously though, we have two thirds of a deep playoff caliber team (ST, and D) but we can't get there if JP plays bad, along w/ the O. We won't be able to keep the best ST and D in the NFL together for too many more seasons.

[Captain gameboy]

I was getting the feeling that Bledsoe was very easy to game plan against.
Not just New England, but every DC seemed to have his number.

Game planning against JP might be more interesting.

He'll see a lot more different looks, but he brings a running component.

Net-net, it might be an interesting year.

[The_Philster]

I was getting the feeling that Bledsoe was very easy to game plan against.
Not just New England, but every DC seemed to have his number.He's not the first...teams saw how Belichek defended him and used those techniques against Drew. Same thing happened with Flutie

[Kerr]

I'm not too concerned. Clements made Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox look good at Steeltown. Wyche helped develop other qb's as well. With Clements' and Wyches' guidance, I feel our Amigo will be in good shape.

[Meathead]

Man, you want to talk about putting your head in the sand.

Even if he is Farve, Flutie, and Vick rolled into one Losman will struggle. Case closed. We can talk ourselves into believing something else but we are absolutely looking at a bridge year.

As ready as I am to see Drew go, it sucks to have to wait yet another year when the rest of the team is loaded with talent that is superbowl caliber right now. But the chance of any team in history making the championship with a virtually inexperienced sophomore at QB is less than 1%.

If anyone thinks the Bills are better of in 2005 with Losman instead of Drew (or Kordell or Kurt or Matthews or Billy Joe Hobart for that matter) please return to your regularly scheduled denial.

[Ickybaluky]

Even if he is Farve, Flutie, and Vick rolled into one Losman will struggle. Case closed.

What if he is more like Roethlisberger or Brady?

With a strong defense, solid ST and a running game to take off the pressure, the components are in place for Losman to success. If he can throw 15-18 efficient passes and make a couple plays a game with his athleticism, I say the Bills are a better team with him than with Bledsoe.

Or, what if he is even Carson Palmer?

He is a second-year guy, so he has the jump on what he needs to do to prepare. Palmer proved to be a franchise guy, which is a real value. he certainly would have won a lot more if he had a better defense.

The Bills invested a lot in Losman because they saw something in him. No use waiting to find out if they are right.

[Meathead]

Sure, what if, what if, what if.

But all those what-ifs came after the fact. Except Palmer and it took him half a season to get semi-consistent production and the Bengals were .500.

CAN a second year QB first time starter take a team deep into the playoffs? Sure. What percentage likelihood is that? Very, very low.

All the positive thinking in the world isn't going to change the fact that a very young QB will absolutely cost you a few games at some point.

[Tatonka]

so you dont think a 2nd year qb can reasonably be expected to put up 150 yards, 1 td and 1 INT.. and prinkle in a fumble every other game?

that is all he would have to do to equal drews numbers.

maybe i am in denial.. but as far as i can see.. the team was 9-7 IN SPITE of dredsoe.. not because of..

i have 100% faith that jp can put up those numbers and also will add a running threat.

my only concern is him getting hurt.

[OpIv37]

so you dont think a 2nd year qb can reasonably be expected to put up 150 yards, 1 td and 1 INT.. and prinkle in a fumble every other game?

that is all he would have to do to equal drews numbers.

maybe i am in denial.. but as far as i can see.. the team was 9-7 IN SPITE of dredsoe.. not because of..

i have 100% faith that jp can put up those numbers and also will add a running threat.

my only concern is him getting hurt.

JP probably CAN equal those aspects of Bledsoe's game- that's exactly the problem because that's what got us to 9-7. I want to WIN and I just don't see an inexperienced QB getting us over the hump from mediocre team to good team. In '06 maybe- I'll reserve judgement on that until I see him play in '05- i just don't see us doing any better this year than we did last year because the QB will still be holding us back (the difference is at least we'll be preparing for the future with JP)

[don137]

I agree with T. Losman will struggling early getting acclimated to the NFL but he won't be much worse, if any, than Drew displayed in many of his games the last 2 1/2 years with the Bills.
Losman will lack some game experience however he will be in Buffalo all winter and spring working with Wyche and Clements. After two full training camps, a full off-season of learning the ropes I am not sure how much more he will need to learn other than game experience.
TD would not release Bledsoe if TD and the coaches felt Losman wasn't ready.

[Meathead]

If you think Drew makes mistakes that lose games just keep your pencil handy.

I'm ready to see Drew go but any argument that JP improves their chances to win the SB now is indefensible.

If it wasn’t for The Choke I’d be lobbying hard to keep Bledsoe despite his mediocrity. I just don’t want to see him in a Bills’ uniform any more after being half the reason for the biggest team collapse ever. But see, that’s an emotional reaction. Just like the one that says JP is going to be like Culpepper, Marino, and Rothlesberger instead of Leaf, Couch, Blackledge, Harrington, Mirer, Shuler, McGwire, Marinovich, Druckenmiller, Klingler, McNown, etc., etc.

And Rothlesberger isn’t even a good example.

[jamze132]

JP won't play any worse than Drew. People say that isn't very good and won't get us to the playoffs. Well it would help the teams future to get JP out there on the field ASAP. I would rather go 9-7 with JP the "virtual rookie" than Drew the "aging veteran". Besides, I doubt we lose 7 games with JP. The surrounding cast is too good, just not good enough to win with Drew.

[EDS]

Sure, what if, what if, what if.

But all those what-ifs came after the fact. Except Palmer and it took him half a season to get semi-consistent production and the Bengals were .500.

CAN a second year QB first time starter take a team deep into the playoffs? Sure. What percentage likelihood is that? Very, very low.

All the positive thinking in the world isn't going to change the fact that a very young QB will absolutely cost you a few games at some point.

I supported Drew all season - and would next year if he were the QB - but I am realistic in that even if he could get us to the playoffs next year he is not going to get us a super bowl victory, so I would rather spend a year developing Losman then spend another year stuck in neutral.

To me making the playoffs means nothing if we do not have a legitimate chance to compete for a championship. I just don't know if I have confidence that Drew can take us there. I don't necessarily think Losman will this year either, but might as well take the chance at this point.

[Meathead]

Right. I just want my instant gratification. I'm responding more to the common idea that we're better off now. We're not.

[DynaPaul]

Remember, this is a run first offense. JP isn't going to be expected to become a pass happy savior for the team. His job will probably be much like Bledsoe's was last year: hand the ball off to set up the play action. We aren't running the West Coast offense here.

[Ickybaluky]

Sure, what if, what if, what if.

But all those what-ifs came after the fact. Except Palmer and it took him half a season to get semi-consistent production and the Bengals were .500.

CAN a second year QB first time starter take a team deep into the playoffs? Sure. What percentage likelihood is that? Very, very low.

All the positive thinking in the world isn't going to change the fact that a very young QB will absolutely cost you a few games at some point.

OK, so what is your alternative? Bring in some caretaker QB for a year or two and try to make a run? Where does that get you? A year or two down the road Losman still has no real experience and is a couple years closer to FA. The Bills invested a high pick in the guy, don't you think they did that with the idea that he would resolve their QB problems (which have been a problem for a while) for the long-term? Why wait to find out?

Look at the final 4 QBs in the playoffs this year: Brady, McNabb, Culpepper and Vick. All guys developed by their team, allowed to grow into their role as franchise QBs. All 4 guys started as young QBs and improved with their teams.

Brady and Culpepper started in their 2nd seasons, after not playing at all their first year. McNabb was a starter midway through his first season. Vick had 2 starts and played parts of 8 games as a rookie, before taking over the team for good in his 2nd year.

That is 4 guys, all of whom started in conference championship games last year.

Would you be happy if Losman followed a career path like those guys?

When you invest a high pick in a QB thinking he will be your future, it is in the team's best interest to find out if he can play.

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

[QUOTE=Meathead]

I'm ready to see Drew go but any argument that JP improves their chances to win the SB now is indefensible.



Well, I agree with that statement, but you have to temper that statement with an equally logical statement.....any argument that JP decreases the Bills chances to wind the SB now is indefensible.

There is just no way in hell to know until we give him a shot. That's why a solid backup is very important.....it's a 50/50 shot that the backup will see significant action....due to either poor play or injury of Losman.

[Meathead]

OK, so what is your alternative?
A better alternative isn't the point. There really isn’t one. Don’t confuse me with a Bledsoe supporter. I don’t want him in a Bills uniform anymore either. Just think “be careful what you wish for.”

Once you remove the emotion you realize releasing Bledsoe is a huge gamble and leaves the team with a significant problem. About 98% of first year starting QB’s struggle significantly. That’s fine if you have a sub-.500 team but if you are a strong team everywhere else the QB position isn’t something you want to be messing with.

Bottom line: if you’re sure JP is going to be as effective overall as even a maddeningly mediocre Bledsoe would be in 2005 then you’re living in dream land. If you want to win right now this is a step backwards. I’m just admitting it.



Well, I agree with that statement, but you have to temper that statement with an equally logical statement.....any argument that JP decreases the Bills chances to wind the SB now is indefensible.

Um, no.

I absolutely guarantee that Losman will make more game losing caliber mistakes in 2005 than Bledsoe would. Every single mistake in a game increases your chances of losing. That will be especially apparent should the Bills make the playoffs. The team around Losman will have to be even better than it was to make the playoffs - and if they do any decent DC should have a great chance to exploit his immaturity at some point in the ball game.

Tell me this:

Imagine a dream world where there were two identical 2005 NFL leagues with exactly the same players except JP starts instead of Bledsoe. You have to pick who will take the team further in 2005 and if you’re wrong you have to donate all your money for the rest of your life to Osama Bin Laden, cut off your hoohoo, and wear Dolphins paraphernalia every day forever.

Who would you pick?

If you’d still take JP then make sure you keep your hoohoo in a jar. That way you can sew it to your face and look like a real Dolphins fan.

lmao! Sorry Fish fans, j/k. lol.