Nugent in the 3rd. Please.

[ShadowHawk7]

From OTC:

Stats:
2001: 27/29 XP 7/14 FG
2002: 45/46 XP 25/28 FG
2003: 38/38 XP 16/19 FG
2004: 27/27 XP 20/23 FG


Mike Nugent has a lot of experience as a kicker, having started all four of his seasons with the Ohio State Buckeyes. He was the recipient of the 2004 Lou Groza award, given to the nation's best kicker. He has a cannon for a leg and consistently makes kicks from 50 yards and beyond. He is now the Buckeyes all-time leading scorer and holds 19 other records including most field goals made from 50 yards. His teammates honored him this year by making him the team’s most valuable player for his 2004 performance. He is the only kicker in Ohio State history to receive this honor. He is also among the best in the country as a kickoff specialist, with just under 62% of his kickoffs being touchbacks as a senior. Mike Nugent is one of the best prospects to come out of college at the kicker position in recent memory. He could be a 3rd round pick on draft day.


I would gladly pay a 3rd round pick for his consistency and rocket leg. Just look at those stats. Remember what a touchback is? Draft Nugent and you will. :up:

[Dr. Lecter]

He will not be there in third. He might not even be there when the Bills 2nd round pick comes up.

[dannyek71]

why all this drueling over a kicker? Next to punter, kicker is the cheapest player in the league. Lets just sign a FA. Why use up a draft pick?

[kevinj22]

Call me crazy call me nuts, but I'm telling you that we should grab this guy in the second round if he's there. My reason is since we don't have a first round pick whoever we draft at this point is for depth. I don't believe that we will find a starter in the second round. Nugent is definitely a starter and a must in our division. Because games in our division are always so close that a solid kicker can make a huge difference. Let's not forget game one against Jacksonville we had a missed kick inthat game with NO WIND we lost and it came back to haunt us in the end. "TAKE NUGENT'.

[BAM]

I wouldn't mind that. Who else are we gonna get at that pick.

[Dozerdog]

A guard, a replacement OT, a backup RB, a backup QB

[Throne Logic]

why all this drueling over a kicker? Next to punter, kicker is the cheapest player in the league. Lets just sign a FA. Why use up a draft pick?

You might want to pay a bit more attention to the way football really works. For all the crap they get, place kickers are probably the most underappreciated position in football. I could care less "who could beat up who".

Which position leads the points scored category every season? How many winning scores do the "real football players" put up each season compared to the place kicker? Who's the guy that the entire offense strives to move the ball to get into his range so that he can stand alone out there in the final 4 seconds to take on the pressure of winning or losing (if you think that's crap, why don't you give Scott Norwood a call). Take a look at overtime. How many games actually end with a score other than a FG?

Good kickers are frequently very much part of the reason for playoff teams being playoff teams. They are frequently responsible for teams either winning or losing the close games.

New England gets it. That's why they pay Adam V. well and will pay him even more with the next contract he's about to get.

TD doesn't get it. And that's why Buffalo has become one of those teams in the past few years that loses many of the close games and misses the playoffs. It's not a coincidence that the Superbowl teams in the early 90's had great kickers. Norwood had one bad kick but otherwise, he and Christie were very solid kickers. The Houston Wildcard game was tied and won because of Christie's solid play at the end. TD had Mike Hollis, who was fairly good and showing improvement. TD definitely was under the same impression as you, that kickers are a dime a dozen and let Hollis walk. It just isn't the case.

I'd be happy with drafting a solid kicker with a 3rd round pick.

[BAM]

I agree. Get this guy. Good consistent kickers are few and far between.

[Dozerdog]

Finding a great kicker and keeping him is important-................ But finding a great kicker in the draft is something else. How many great kickers have come out in the draft at all? And of those drafted high, how many made it big?

[Jersey1031]

wasting the 2nd round pick is risky...we need this guy or a good FA at least like feely, i dont like lindell

[The Natrix]

I was just going to start a thread saying take him in the 2nd if he's there. If he works out, this could be one of the best special teams in NFL history!

[Dozerdog]

...and if he's an ordinary kicker- we look stupid

[ShadowHawk7]

Looking at his college career, I'd say he's as sure of a bet as you can get.

[DraftBoy]

...and if he's an ordinary kicker- we look stupid


Exactly!

[The Natrix]

If by "ordinary" you mean average, that's a hell of a lot better than suck ass Lindell!

[Dozerdog]

Looking at his college career, I'd say he's as sure of a bet as you can get.
I'm as big of an OSU fan there is short of attending the school- my sister (Wiener52 on the boards) is an employee there.


I've seen a lot of OSU games on TV, and watched this kid the past few years. He's real good- but he's not incredible.

I'm not spending a day 1 pick on a kicker (and especially giving him top 45 draft money) unless he can consistently kick 75 yard kickoffs, he can nail 50 yard FGs with accuracy and regularity, and he can punt like Brian Moorman.

The only other time I would even consider a day 1 pick on a kicker is if I had 6-7 day 1 selections and filled all my needs.

He's no different than Nate Kaeding from last year, and he wasn't some super human kicker this year. Matter of fact he choked vs the Jets in the playoffs.

[The Natrix]

He's no different than Nate Kaeding from last year, and he wasn't some super human kicker this year. Matter of fact he choked vs the Jets in the playoffs.


And I take it, Losman is going to bust, because Rob Johnson did? :mad:

[jamze132]

why all this drueling over a kicker? Next to punter, kicker is the cheapest player in the league. Lets just sign a FA. Why use up a draft pick?
Because when you draft, you don't always know what you are getting from a position player. But Nugent is the real deal. I would take him in the 2nd. Besides, who in FA is worth getting?

[BAM]

I'm not spending a day 1 pick on a kicker

You aren't.. but TD might. :D

[The Natrix]

It would be so nice in a close game to think "just get it to the 35 yard line" instead of "get it in the endzone, because Lindell makes me nervous even on 40 yarders."

[BAM]

I hear ya, Nate. I'll never forget that FG he missed vs. Pittsburgh the last week. :mad:

As Myron Cope said "SHAME ON YOU, LINDELL."

[Dozerdog]

And I take it, Losman is going to bust, because Rob Johnson did? :mad:
Nice apples -to- rocks comparison there :dizzy:

[OpIv37]

wasting the 2nd round pick is risky...we need this guy or a good FA at least like feely, i dont like lindell

draft picks aren't wastes- they're gambles (hopefully educated ones). Sometimes you get an Eric Flowers and somes you get a Lee Evans. If you have a need and there's a potential replacement, I say go for it. This draft is weak and we're not going to find our biggest needs (backup QB, O-linemen) in the draft anyway.

TD has a history of picking the best player available in the draft regardless of position, and using FA to fill needs (McGahee). This is a unique situation where (if he's still there for our 2nd rounder) he could be the best player available AND fill a need- who knows what will happen?

BTW does anyone know how many other teams are watching this guy? I don't have time to really follow other teams, but I can't believe the other 31 are all happy with their kicking situations.

[Dozerdog]

If the opportunity presented itself- would anyone here trade the Bills' #1 pick in the draft to the Pats at the end of next season to get Viniteri?

He's the gold standard of kickers. Would you give up a #2 round pick in this year's draft for Sebastian Janikowski?

[OpIv37]

If the opportunity presented itself- would anyone here trade the Bills' #1 pick in the draft to the Pats at the end of next season to get Viniteri?



No friggin way. First, we don't have a first-round draft pick this year. Eventually, players retire or leave via free agency and we need to groom quality replacements Second, giving the Pats a first round draft pick is like giving a 12 year old a blow torch and hoping nothing bad happens. I'm just afraid they'd use it to select the next Tom Brady, Ray Lewis, Ladanian Tomlinson, etc to beat the piss out of us twice a year.

[Dozerdog]

So Vineteri or Sebass aren't worth sacreficing a high pick- even though they are the best kickers out there. But everyone wants to give up our only top 50 pick for this kid.


I don't understand the infatuation. It's got to be more out of a negative reaction to Lindell than anything.

[BAM]

No way in hell I'd give up a 1st round pick or probably even the second one this year seeing as how we don't have a first rounder...

That being said... I don't get your point Dozer. The title of the thread is Nugent in the 3rd. Please" ... which I would do.

[OpIv37]

I'm not sure about janikowski- in a weak draft, that one may be worth it. As far as Vinatieri- it's more of a division rival thing than a kicker thing. The best kicker in the league is worth a first rounder, but I can't see giving a first rounder to a division rival. You don't deal with your enemies.

Plus I wouldn't trust the Pats to let him go unless they knew he was damaged goods.

[BAM]

Oh nevermind.. I guess a couple people said they'd take him in the 2nd.

[Dozerdog]

If We lose Jennings and Williams, and don't get FA replacements, and then we pass over an OT, G, or DT for a kicker, I'll pull my hair out.

We won't get close enough to kick game winning FGs when we are punting all game due to no running attack. Welcome back to September 2004

[OpIv37]

If We lose Jennings and Williams, and don't get FA replacements, and then we pass over an OT, G, or DT for a kicker, I'll pull my hair out.



F drafting a kicker- if we don't get FA replacements for Williams and Jennings, TD should be fired before the season even starts. The draft won't matter cuz we're screwed.

[Tatonka]

the top kickers in the league were undrafted..

why draft one?

being good as a college kicker has never traslated to being a good nfl kicker...

[Jersey1031]

decent kickers do account for many accumulated points, and could be difference makers in games...im split. goin for this guy in the 2nd is risky, lets take him in the 3rd if he's still there, what the hell...it will be a year of risk taking; JP and Nugent

[DaBills]

Only thing I want out of my kicker is extra points. If we need a kicker to win a lot of games for us like last year, we're f'ed anyway. Two weakest positions last year imo were QB and kicker. I don't want to sacrifice a 2nd round pick either for a kicker, but Lindell is not the answer. Haven't we gotten our collective hearts ripped out by kickers enough?

If it came down to it though, I'd take Adam V. over the headcase Capt. Janks. The soccer player looked a little shaky, while AV has been MONEY in SB's, and in cold weather.

[Charlieguide]

I had Kaeding in FF, and he rocked. He had one bad kick this year, and people are reaming him for it. I've said this before: you put a rookie kicker forty yards out on muddy grass in playoff OT, your chances aren't great. Kaeding is a fantastic kicker, especially for a rookie.

The best kickers in the league were undrafted? Big deal. You're talking about 3-4 players, which is hardly a statistically viable sample.

Take an offensive lineman, instead? This draft is very weak at OL. We certainly need to improve there, but the potential Shelton trade shows that TD expects to take care of this with vets. Big Pat? Ron Edwards looks ready to step up, and Tim Anderson can take care of business.

College doesn't translate? Probably true . . . unless you performed under the pressure of rabid Buckeye fans and the national championship.

Look, I'd be happy to see TD go out and find a FA kicker . . . but name one worth signing. Even when you consider FA's, Nugent might just be the best K available. And I don't think he'll be around in the third. So it comes down to this: would you spend a 2nd round pick to get the best kicker available? I would.

[Wheresthekgun]

From OTC:

Stats:
2001: 27/29 XP 7/14 FG
2002: 45/46 XP 25/28 FG
2003: 38/38 XP 16/19 FG
2004: 27/27 XP 20/23 FG


Mike Nugent has a lot of experience as a kicker, having started all four of his seasons with the Ohio State Buckeyes. He was the recipient of the 2004 Lou Groza award, given to the nation's best kicker. He has a cannon for a leg and consistently makes kicks from 50 yards and beyond. He is now the Buckeyes all-time leading scorer and holds 19 other records including most field goals made from 50 yards. His teammates honored him this year by making him the team’s most valuable player for his 2004 performance. He is the only kicker in Ohio State history to receive this honor. He is also among the best in the country as a kickoff specialist, with just under 62% of his kickoffs being touchbacks as a senior. Mike Nugent is one of the best prospects to come out of college at the kicker position in recent memory. He could be a 3rd round pick on draft day.


I would gladly pay a 3rd round pick for his consistency and rocket leg. Just look at those stats. Remember what a touchback is? Draft Nugent and you will. :up:
How bout NO SCOTT!!!!

[justasportsfan]

getting a kicker in the 2nd is a waste. Draft a holder first in the 2nd and then a kicker in the 3rd :up:

[dannyek71]

You might want to pay a bit more attention to the way football really works. For all the crap they get, place kickers are probably the most underappreciated position in football. I could care less "who could beat up who".
I never said kickers are worthless, you should read threads better. Kickers are underappreciated yes... But look at what the average kicker makes and compare it to any other posistion.

The best kickers in the league make about the worst starting QB does. So Why not just sign one off fa?

We wont draft Nuget. If anyone really thinks we will, put up some ZBs as a bet.

[Jan Reimers]

If we don't address some of our other critical needs first, the quality of our kicker will be irrelevant. We won't be close enough in a lot of games that a FG or two will matter.

I think we need to see what happens in free agency - do we lose both JJ and Pat, do we find suitable replacemets, do we fill some other holes, do we trade TH, and for whom, etc. - before we decide to use a high draft pick on a kicker.

[BidsJr]

He's no different than Nate Kaeding from last year, and he wasn't some super human kicker this year. Matter of fact he choked vs the Jets in the playoffs.

Kaeding is going to be a special player for the Chargers.

I would rather have him than Nugent.


:mex:

[mysticsoto]

I had Kaeding in FF, and he rocked. He had one bad kick this year, and people are reaming him for it. I've said this before: you put a rookie kicker forty yards out on muddy grass in playoff OT, your chances aren't great. Kaeding is a fantastic kicker, especially for a rookie.

The best kickers in the league were undrafted? Big deal. You're talking about 3-4 players, which is hardly a statistically viable sample.

Take an offensive lineman, instead? This draft is very weak at OL. We certainly need to improve there, but the potential Shelton trade shows that TD expects to take care of this with vets. Big Pat? Ron Edwards looks ready to step up, and Tim Anderson can take care of business.

College doesn't translate? Probably true . . . unless you performed under the pressure of rabid Buckeye fans and the national championship.

Look, I'd be happy to see TD go out and find a FA kicker . . . but name one worth signing. Even when you consider FA's, Nugent might just be the best K available. And I don't think he'll be around in the third. So it comes down to this: would you spend a 2nd round pick to get the best kicker available? I would.
You're assuming that Shelton/TH is a done deal and it appears to be far from it. I think AZ wants draft picks also. They are trying to use leverage with the Bears showing interest and the fact that the draft is full of RBs and they have a top 10 choice and could probably get 1 of the top 3 best RBs.

I like Nugent also, but we have a new QB who needs a solid line to feel comfortable and flourish. If we had a 1st rd pick, I might not mind choosing Nugent in the 2nd, but since we don't, I much rather a Center or stud O-linemen to further solidify that line. We will in all likelihood lose Pucillo also (thank god!), so we will need backups also. If Nugent is there in the 3rd or 4th, take him, but we cannot sacrifice our 2nd when our O-line is losing a major player and needed work anyway. Do we want Losman to have to run for his life constantly and end up getting hurt like Vick did for an extended period of time? Is Nugent going to get out there and help block for Losman? Kickers are important, but the offense is on the field alot more than the kicker and we need to make sure we give Losman what he needs to succeed.

[ShadowHawk7]

I'm not spending a day 1 pick on a kicker (and especially giving him top 45 draft money) unless he can consistently kick 75 yard kickoffs, he can nail 50 yard FGs with accuracy and regularity, and he can punt like Brian Moorman.


I'd say %60 touchbacks is more than consistent in the NFL, and he was very accurate on those long 50 yarders in college. If you were serious about being able to punt as well, that is totally unreasonable anyway. I understand what our needs are and that's why I'm opposed to picking him in the 2nd, but look at our last two third rounders. Anderson and Crowell have done squat. With kickers you know what you're getting. They do pretty much the same thing they did in college. Kick a ball several times a game. I'm sure Nugent felt plenty of pressure playing for OSU, so don't talk about him getting rattled by the NFL. What they do in college (2-4 touchbacks a game, consistent long field goal kicker) should translate into the NFL. And trust me, we could sure use that consistency. We won't have to bite into our fingers for 48 yard field goals anymore. He is easily worth the 3rd rounder.

BTW, has there been any kickers that were solid punters too?

[BuffaloRanger]

"Just sign one off of FA." That hasn't really worked out for the Bills the last few years has it? Who is this mystery FA kicker? Name who?

Are the Bills going to go another season with Lindell? Missing 27 yd kicks (Laces out Dan) in games needed to make the playoffs.

Are you telling me you will ever be confident when he lines up for a 30 yd kick?

The Bills don't have to spend a day one pick on Nugent. Because that would be such a waste right? They should select a player that will come in and contribute every game like other famous Day 1 picks

Ryan Denney
Anglo Crowell
Chris Kelsay
Ron Edwards
Taveras Tillman
Corey Moore
Tim Anderson

Those players all came in and made immediate impacts right? Especially compared to Nate Keading, last years high pick from the Chargers. Why would we want to do something as stupid as that.

Isn't Joe "played 4 games in the last 2 seasons" Nedney available in FA?

[Michael82]

You aren't.. but TD might. :D
I'll bet you 1000 Zonebucks that TD will NOT waste a Day 1 draft pick on a kicker, if given the chance. This means that both the 2nd and 3rd rounders will NOT be on Nugent. If he is not given the chance, no one wins. If he passes both times, I win! If he drafts Nugent in the 2nd or 3rd, you win.

[Dr. Lecter]

I'll bet you 1000 Zonebucks that TD will NOT waste a Day 1 draft pick on a kicker, if given the chance. This means that both the 2nd and 3rd rounders will NOT be on Nugent. If he is not given the chance, no one wins. If he passes both times, I win! If he drafts Nugent in the 2nd or 3rd, you win.
Why do you assume that USING a day 1 pick on a kicker is 'wasting' the pick?

[Michael82]

Why do you assume that USING a day 1 pick on a kicker is 'wasting' the pick?
Because we have many other needs and only 2 picks in the first 3 rounds.

[BuffaloRanger]

Other needs can be addressed through FA. Kicker can not be.

As I so eloquently pointed out 2nd and 3rd round picks rarely contribute right away - like a Kicker would.

I'd like to see the Bills get an OL (see Center) on Day 1.

TD doesn't value kickers - even after Lindell's miss crushed the Bills playoff hopes.

[Dr. Lecter]

Because we have many other needs and only 2 picks in the first 3 rounds.
True. But should the Bills not address those needs with the best available player option?