does anyone realise how bad the OL situation is?

[ICE74129]

Come on folks. We have no left tackle. It is so stunning to me how many people are so flipant about not having one. it is THE position on the OL!

Mike Williams is too fat and slow. Teague is now rummored by TD to move there. Gee the guy has been a center for 3 years so NOW lets move him? WTF? The guy gave up something like 11 sacks in 16 games as a starter at LT in Denver!

Now we bring in some 4th round pick who is a 3rd string tackle out of Seattle? On top of that he is as fat if not fatter than Mike Williams!

I think we are in DEEP trouble this year. This will be TD's last year, count on it.

[Iehoshua]

Come on folks. We have no left tackle. It is so stunning to me how many people are so flipant about not having one. it is THE position on the OL!

Mike Williams is too fat and slow. Teague is now rummored by TD to move there. Gee the guy has been a center for 3 years so NOW lets move him? WTF? The guy gave up something like 11 sacks in 16 games as a starter at LT in Denver!

Now we bring in some 4th round pick who is a 3rd string tackle out of Seattle? On top of that he is as fat if not fatter than Mike Williams!

I think we are in DEEP trouble this year. This will be TD's last year, count on it.
DOOMED!

[Ebenezer]

Come on folks. We have no left tackle. It is so stunning to me how many people are so flipant about not having one. it is THE position on the OL!

Mike Williams is too fat and slow. Teague is now rummored by TD to move there. Gee the guy has been a center for 3 years so NOW lets move him? WTF? The guy gave up something like 11 sacks in 16 games as a starter at LT in Denver!

Now we bring in some 4th round pick who is a 3rd string tackle out of Seattle? On top of that he is as fat if not fatter than Mike Williams!

I think we are in DEEP trouble this year. This will be TD's last year, count on it.
the line is not looking all that encouraging right now...if Shelton does go to Indi that will be one less on the board to plug in...

[Sportsuser101]

We've been talking about our o-line situation for weeks.

[Mudflap1]

Thank you Iceman. At least someone on here besides me understands that a football team's offense begins and ends with the offensive line.

Yes, it's early. But it's not a good sign at all that 1) Shelton (who ain't that hot to begin with, but would be adequate) is probably NOT coming here and is being traded to Indy, and 2) TD is now talking about moving the extremely mediocre Teague to LT, the most important position on the line.

It ain't like we got Brett Favre back there. Maybe J.P. will turn out to be great, but he's not going to get much of a chance as it' looks like he's going to be cannon fodder because Tom Donahoe decided to hibernate this offseason.

Jon

[ExWNYer]

Take a breath.. Its March 10.. six months until kickoff.

Amen. Cripes, can we get thru the draft, mini-camps, training camp, and preseason before giving up on '05??! This team (like just about every other this time of year) is a work in progress. Rome wasn't built in a day and this team won't be built on March 10th, either. Chill. :tap:

[Gunzlingr]

Amen. Cripes, can we get thru the draft, mini-camps, training camp, and preseason before giving up on '05??! This team (like just about every other this time of year) is a work in progress. Rome wasn't built in a day and this team won't be built on March 10th, either. Chill. :tap:
Thank you!!

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

WHAT!!!!! We don't have a left tackle. Holy cow, nobody on this board has mentioned that. What are we going to do!?!?!?!?!

[Tatonka]

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

there ice.. i got your point across for you without all the wordiness. :up:

[Mudflap1]

No, Rome wasn't built in a day, but we are going on Year Freakin' Five with Tom Donahoe, and we still have no playoffs. The line isn't a two month problem, or 8 days since Free Agency started. It's been a problem going on five years. And now, while we have a solid defense, RB, etc., our offensive line, where championship teams are made, is in total shambles with guys going fast. Yeah, he can still make some moves and make some improvements, but this should've been the first area he addressed 4+ years ago, not the last. I think that's what's got some of us very concerned.

Again, this isn't an 8-day problem, it's a 5 year problem.

Jon

[ParanoidAndroid]

"When last I checked, Theodin* was King of Rohan^, not Aragorn!"

*Tom Donahoe

^ ICE

Let's see, how long do we have until training camp? Five months?

Patience, grasshopper. And :pray:

[buffmaniac]

Two Words: Jim McNally

He'll find a way.

[Dicknoze69]

Don't have we a game this Sunday against the Patriots ??

We might need a LT !!

[jpdex12]

yeah, settle down you scared little whiners! There are plenty of decent names still out there to choose from to solidify our line. Besides we don't have to model ourselves after the PAtties, but there is plenty of names other than top FA as long as you can find them.

Don't give up on TD! Look at how bad our "D" was when he came in and they have been #2 for two years now. The offense is next and when those two start to gel together, that will breed wins for several years.:clap:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Thank you Iceman. At least someone on here besides me understands that a football team's offense begins and ends with the offensive line.

Yes, it's early. But it's not a good sign at all that 1) Shelton (who ain't that hot to begin with, but would be adequate) is probably NOT coming here and is being traded to Indy, and 2) TD is now talking about moving the extremely mediocre Teague to LT, the most important position on the line.

It ain't like we got Brett Favre back there. Maybe J.P. will turn out to be great, but he's not going to get much of a chance as it' looks like he's going to be cannon fodder because Tom Donahoe decided to hibernate this offseason.

Jon

Yes Iceman and Mudflap are the only two that realize this..... :clap:

[Mudflap1]

yeah, settle down you scared little whiners!
Take your insults and overall lack of football knowledge somewhere else.

What is this, a 15 year project??? How long does it take to get an offensive line together? The Panthers turned it around in a year, the Patriots turned it around in a year, the Eagles got progressively better over two years and went from cellar dweller to perennial playoff team to perennial Super Bowl contender.

FIVE YEARS AND NO PLAYOFSS!!!!! What are we waiting for?

Jon

[THATHURMANATOR]

I agree that our line is in trouble as we speak. There is still quite a bit of time before the season starts though. I want to wait and see who we pick up first before I really start worrying.

[Tatonka]

freaking out about it right now will definately make it better though.. i know that! :up:

[THATHURMANATOR]

oh should i start freaking out then?

[Dicknoze69]

I freak out every day we don't sign someone

[Romes]

we have brought in 2 of the top remaining FA OL available in the past 3 days. the team is doing something. they clearly do realize the OL is an area of concern.

I'm confident we will sign one of these guys. Anyone can look at our OL depth chart right now and realize we don't have enough players there.

lets wate until all the players are signed or till training camp before we start saying that this year is gonna go down the drain and TD is going to be fired after the year is over.

Before last year, we were uncertain about how effective Jennings would be and if he could stay healthy, we had no clue who our LG was, people didn't like Teague, Mike Williams was flaking out of camp.

Do you people remember how down people were on our OL situation before last year? What happened?

Well, the OL jelled, Jennings became a good player, Tucker stepped up at LG, Teague took control at C, and Mike Williams started living up to his potential. I'm not worried, there is plenty of time and we have good coaches.

[mysticsoto]

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

there ice.. i got your point across for you without all the wordiness. :up:

Thank you for posting that!!!

First, the sky is falling b'cse TD hasn't brought in any FAs and is apparently not doing anything. Now, the sky is falling b'cse their is a plan to perhaps change the lineup and move people around. People around here cry wolf if they see a chihuahua!!! Relax. We have bunch of flexible people that have been signed by TD to ensure that McNally has choice to move people where they best seem fit to play. I have high hopes for Bannan also. He has real game experience and is itching to just play!!!

Here are some excerpts from an article that may calm you down:

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050310/1070960.asp?tbd1070960.asp

For all you Teague haters out there:

"Teague, 30, started 20 games at left tackle in his first four seasons in Denver, including all 16 contests in 2001. He was signed by the Bills to play the position in 2002 but before training camp was moved to center, his primary position in college at Tennessee.

Teague may be the Bills' most athletic offensive lineman. He is a technically sound blocker, and his mobility would be an asset in pass protection. Donahoe said Teague would not have a problem with changing positions again."

As for other personnel:

"The Bills have a lot of flexibility up front because they have linemen who can play multiple positions. Gandy can play tackle or guard. Left guard Ross Tucker has starting experience at center. Dylan McFarland was drafted as a tackle last year but practiced a lot at guard. "We're going to spend the spring experimenting a little bit with some of those guys," Donahoe said. "Hopefully, when it's all said and done, we'll have the right five guys and get them in the right spot and keep them healthy."

[Novacane]

OMG OMG .................the end of the world is near! :rolleyes:


Our O-line was playing pretty good by the end of the year and that was with a statue behind them. We lost 1 injury prone starter!

[TedMock]

Take your insults and overall lack of football knowledge somewhere else.

What is this, a 15 year project??? How long does it take to get an offensive line together? The Panthers turned it around in a year, the Patriots turned it around in a year, the Eagles got progressively better over two years and went from cellar dweller to perennial playoff team to perennial Super Bowl contender.

FIVE YEARS AND NO PLAYOFSS!!!!! What are we waiting for?

Jon

Your kidding, right? The entire world knows that our o-line has struggled. The reason people are laughing are 1. panic and 2. Ice's made up stats. Teague did not allow 11 sacks in 16 starts, look it up. Womack is not a 3rd string tackle. Look that up too. If anybody watches football at all, they'd know exactly who "Pork Chop" Womack is, and realize that he is indeed a solid player who happens to be the PRIMARY backup behind two stud-tackles. Chris Terry and Walter Jones would put most guys on the bench. So, please people stop with the ridiculous panic until you make up false statistics crap.

As for other teams turning it around in a year.....bull! Hmm, where should we start? Carolina? Okay. They were 11-5 in 2003 and went to the Superbowl. Not bad. Of course they went 7-9 the following year due to injuries. Let's see this 1-year turn around. Here are the years and records: 2002: 7-9, 2001: 1-15, 2000: 7-9, 1999: 8-8, 1998: 4-12, 1997: 7-9, 1996: 12-4. There it is! 12-4 to 6 consecutive losing seasons, then they finally had a big year. This is not a 1-year turn around. It takes drafts and free agency, unless you want that 1 year hit before dumping everybody and starting all over again.

New England stayed somewhere around .500 for a while before Belichick took over. He went 5-11, then turned it around. They were 8-8 and 9-7 the two years prior, while the record bounced between 5-11 and 11-5 the several years before that. Most of the time around the .500 mark. They obviously made a bad move with Pete Carroll. Philly had 2 losing seasons before Reid got there. However, they were 10-6 the two years prior. 5-11 in Reid's first year, and then the turnaround started. A lot of the Ray Rhoades players were still around for Reid's success.

My point is that teams don't just turn around in a year the way the media portrays it. Sometimes a good coach comes in and gives them the shot in the arm that they need. In NE's case, Carroll hung around for 3 years, but it was Belichick that turned them around. A lot of the players were the same.

Maybe Gregg Williams was our Pete Carroll and Mularkey's our Bellichick. We didn't make the playoffs last year, but we didn't go 5-11 like the "successful" coaches did when they came in their first year, implementing new systems. We actually struggled through 0-4, then finished 9-3. That's a huge testament to this coaching staff. We're all worried about the line, but for the first time in years, we have faith in our coaches.

[SoCalBillsFan]

Just because someone is concerned about something doesn't mean they think the sky is falling.

I am also concerned about the OL. Whether you think the sky is falling ornot, we don't have a LT, and that's an important part of any time. Our offensive line is currently worse than it was last season. I'd like to see TD make it better. So yes, I'm concerned. Doesn't mean I'm "giving up on the season" or anything, I just think we've got some work to do.

[ICE74129]

Ah I see. so 'calm down' 'relax' 'Be patient'. BULL ****! I have done that for over 4 G Damn years now. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! It takes TIME for an OL to gell! We ONLY Have 5 months. I don't want JP to end up like friggin Tim Couch because he got the living **** beat out of him for a full year.

TD is out of excuses. LT should have been addressed DAY ONE of free agency. You can NOT just plug anyone in there, You can't! whomever we get needs to be here for ALL of the offseason program to get the chemestry built for this line.

Look we fugged around with the OL until starting day in 04. Anyone remember that? They went in with like a handfull of series together as a starting OL. how did that work out? 0-4 That's how!

NOTHING is more important than this OL. It is the #1 reason we made superbowls in the 90's. Kelly, Thurman none would have done **** without Wolford, Richer, Hull, Davis and Ballard.

For YEARS we have said 'FIX THE OL'! Not only is it not fixed, we don't even have a true LT worth a damn on the friggin roster.

Sorry my time for being patient and relaxing in regards to this issue is over.

[Mr. Cynical]

Here we go!

[Novacane]

If I had'nt given out to much rep in the last 24 hours I'd neg the hell outta Ice :mad:

[Iehoshua]

Ah I see. so 'calm down' 'relax' 'Be patient'. BULL ****! I have done that for over 4 G Damn years now. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! It takes TIME for an OL to gell! We ONLY Have 5 months. I don't want JP to end up like friggin Tim Couch because he got the living **** beat out of him for a full year.

TD is out of excuses. LT should have been addressed DAY ONE of free agency. You can NOT just plug anyone in there, You can't! whomever we get needs to be here for ALL of the offseason program to get the chemestry built for this line.

Look we fugged around with the OL until starting day in 04. Anyone remember that? They went in with like a handfull of series together as a starting OL. how did that work out? 0-4 That's how!

NOTHING is more important than this OL. It is the #1 reason we made superbowls in the 90's. Kelly, Thurman none would have done **** without Wolford, Richer, Hull, Davis and Ballard.

For YEARS we have said 'FIX THE OL'! Not only is it not fixed, we don't even have a true LT worth a damn on the friggin roster.

Sorry my time for being patient and relaxing in regards to this issue is over.
You're right. That does it. If we don't sign a tackle in the next 15 minutes, I'm going to hold my breath until I die...

[Mr. Cynical]

Ice, just remember....Drew is gone. As far as I'm concerned the team got better instantly when that happened. It's nothing but up from here on out. :up:

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I already slashed my wrrrri sstsss thnikg a b out tthissssss

[ICE74129]

First off I know who Porkchop is. You just stated so yourself the #3 Tackle on the seahawks. He is too fat, to play RT read the scouting report on him.

As for Teague I am trying to find the site that shows sacks given up by linemen again. Yeah I am pretty sure he had 11 in the 16 game start.

this OL DOES suck. For any 'turnaround' as you state it we need an OL.

Lastly clown, the Offensive line is the single most important unit on a team. We dont' have the most important position filled on the most important unit so yeah folks need to be worried. You don't just plug anyone in there.

[Iehoshua]

I already slashed my wrrrri sstsss thnikg a b out tthissssss
:roflmao:


Lastly clown, the Offensive line is the single most important unit on a team.
Which of us 'clowns' are you referring to? :scratch:

[ICE74129]

If I had'nt given out to much rep in the last 24 hours I'd neg the hell outta Ice :mad:
blow me. Some of you clowns really need to pull your heads out. You morons have been hailing the greatness of TD for 4 years now. We are still sitting with a sub .500 record and No playoffs. We went 9-7 thanks to playing 4 of the worst teams in the league. Better look at this years schedule. More playoff contenders and division winners than sub .500 teams. Better take REAL close look at the pass rushing teams Buffalo will face. Carolina is gonna kill JP if something isn't done. Count on it.

[Mr. Cynical]

As for Teague I am trying to find the site that shows sacks given up by linemen again. Yeah I am pretty sure he had 11 in the 16 game start.You won't get any arguments from me that TT should not be starting on the line. But I still believe TD will come up with a solution, most likely in the draft.

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" bgColor=#999999 border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#cccccc><TD class=text16B align=middle colSpan=3>70, Trey Teague, C, Buffalo Bills</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=text11 width="26%">Height: 6-5</TD><TD class=text11 width="40%">Weight: 300</TD><TD class=text11 width="34%">Experience: 7 years</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=text11 width="26%">Born: 12/27/1974</TD><TD class=text11 width="40%">Birthplace: Jackson, TN</TD><TD class=text11 width="34%">College: Tennessee</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><LINK href="/stats/nflinfo/nfl_stylesheet.css" rel=stylesheet>

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" bgColor=#cccccc border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#999999><TD class=text11B vAlign=top align=middle colSpan=10>Career Offensive Line Stats</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#cccccc><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom align=left width="9%">Year</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom align=left width="9%">Team</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom width="9%">G</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom width="9%">GS</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom width="9%">Pen</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom width="9%">Yds</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom width="10%">False Start</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom width="9%">Holding</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom width="9%">Sacks Allwd</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom width="9%">Yds</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=text11 align=left>1999</TD><TD class=text11 align=left>Den (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=07)</TD><TD class=text11>16</TD><TD class=text11>4</TD><TD class=text11>4</TD><TD class=text11>35</TD><TD class=text11>1</TD><TD class=text11>3</TD><TD class=text11>1.50</TD><TD class=text11>5.00</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=text11 align=left>2000</TD><TD class=text11 align=left>Den (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=07)</TD><TD class=text11>2</TD><TD class=text11>0</TD><TD class=text11>0</TD><TD class=text11>0</TD><TD class=text11>0</TD><TD class=text11>0</TD><TD class=text11>0.00</TD><TD class=text11>0.00</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=text11 align=left>2001</TD><TD class=text11 align=left>Den (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=07)</TD><TD class=text11>16</TD><TD class=text11>16</TD><TD class=text11>2</TD><TD class=text11>15</TD><TD class=text11>1</TD><TD class=text11>1</TD><TD class=text11>11.25</TD><TD class=text11>56.00</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=text11 align=left>2002</TD><TD class=text11 align=left>Buf (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=02)</TD><TD class=text11>16</TD><TD class=text11>16</TD><TD class=text11>5</TD><TD class=text11>50</TD><TD class=text11>1</TD><TD class=text11>3</TD><TD class=text11>5.00</TD><TD class=text11>43.50</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=text11 align=left>2003</TD><TD class=text11 align=left>Buf (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=02)</TD><TD class=text11>16</TD><TD class=text11>16</TD><TD class=text11>4</TD><TD class=text11>40</TD><TD class=text11>0</TD><TD class=text11>4</TD><TD class=text11>0.50</TD><TD class=text11>3.00</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=text11 align=left>2004</TD><TD class=text11 align=left>Buf (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=02)</TD><TD class=text11>12</TD><TD class=text11>12</TD><TD class=text11>2</TD><TD class=text11>20</TD><TD class=text11>0</TD><TD class=text11>2</TD><TD class=text11>0.00</TD><TD class=text11>0.00</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#cccccc><TD class=text11B align=left colSpan=2>Totals</TD><TD class=text11B>78</TD><TD class=text11B>64</TD><TD class=text11B>-</TD><TD class=text11B>-</TD><TD class=text11B>-</TD><TD class=text11B>-</TD><TD class=text11B>-</TD><TD class=text11B>-</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!-- STATS Fantasy Advantage Copyright Footer -->

[Novacane]

Fire TD and name ICE the new GM. :up:

[Iehoshua]

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" bgColor=#999999 border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#cccccc><TD class=text16B align=middle colSpan=3>70, Trey Teague, C, Buffalo Bills</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=text11 width="26%">Height: 6-5</TD><TD class=text11 width="40%">Weight: 300</TD><TD class=text11 width="34%">Experience: 7 years</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=text11 width="26%">Born: 12/27/1974</TD><TD class=text11 width="40%">Birthplace: Jackson, TN</TD><TD class=text11 width="34%">College: Tennessee</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><LINK href="/stats/nflinfo/nfl_stylesheet.css" rel=stylesheet>

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" bgColor=#cccccc border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#999999><TD class=text11B vAlign=top align=middle colSpan=10>Career Offensive Line Stats</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#cccccc><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom align=left width="9%">Year</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom align=left width="9%">Team</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom width="9%">G</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom width="9%">GS</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom width="9%">Pen</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom width="9%">Yds</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom width="10%">False Start</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom width="9%">Holding</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom width="9%">Sacks Allwd</TD><TD class=text11B vAlign=bottom width="9%">Yds</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=text11 align=left>1999</TD><TD class=text11 align=left>Den (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=07)</TD><TD class=text11>16</TD><TD class=text11>4</TD><TD class=text11>4</TD><TD class=text11>35</TD><TD class=text11>1</TD><TD class=text11>3</TD><TD class=text11>1.50</TD><TD class=text11>5.00</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=text11 align=left>2000</TD><TD class=text11 align=left>Den (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=07)</TD><TD class=text11>2</TD><TD class=text11>0</TD><TD class=text11>0</TD><TD class=text11>0</TD><TD class=text11>0</TD><TD class=text11>0</TD><TD class=text11>0.00</TD><TD class=text11>0.00</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=text11 align=left>2001</TD><TD class=text11 align=left>Den (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=07)</TD><TD class=text11>16</TD><TD class=text11>16</TD><TD class=text11>2</TD><TD class=text11>15</TD><TD class=text11>1</TD><TD class=text11>1</TD><TD class=text11>11.25</TD><TD class=text11>56.00</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=text11 align=left>2002</TD><TD class=text11 align=left>Buf (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=02)</TD><TD class=text11>16</TD><TD class=text11>16</TD><TD class=text11>5</TD><TD class=text11>50</TD><TD class=text11>1</TD><TD class=text11>3</TD><TD class=text11>5.00</TD><TD class=text11>43.50</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=text11 align=left>2003</TD><TD class=text11 align=left>Buf (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=02)</TD><TD class=text11>16</TD><TD class=text11>16</TD><TD class=text11>4</TD><TD class=text11>40</TD><TD class=text11>0</TD><TD class=text11>4</TD><TD class=text11>0.50</TD><TD class=text11>3.00</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#ffffff><TD class=text11 align=left>2004</TD><TD class=text11 align=left>Buf (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=02)</TD><TD class=text11>12</TD><TD class=text11>12</TD><TD class=text11>2</TD><TD class=text11>20</TD><TD class=text11>0</TD><TD class=text11>2</TD><TD class=text11>0.00</TD><TD class=text11>0.00</TD></TR><TR align=right bgColor=#cccccc><TD class=text11B align=left colSpan=2>Totals</TD><TD class=text11B>78</TD><TD class=text11B>64</TD><TD class=text11B>-</TD><TD class=text11B>-</TD><TD class=text11B>-</TD><TD class=text11B>-</TD><TD class=text11B>-</TD><TD class=text11B>-</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!-- STATS Fantasy Advantage Copyright Footer -->
11.25??!
:eek:

[ICE74129]

Damn I was wrong. It was 11.25 sacks. Hey TedMock, any more crap you want to spew?

<table bgcolor="#cccccc" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#999999"><td class="text11B" colspan="10" align="center" valign="top">Career Offensive Line Stats</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc"><td class="text11B" align="left" valign="bottom" width="9%">Year</td><td class="text11B" align="left" valign="bottom" width="9%">Team</td><td class="text11B" valign="bottom" width="9%">G</td><td class="text11B" valign="bottom" width="9%">GS</td><td class="text11B" valign="bottom" width="9%">Pen</td><td class="text11B" valign="bottom" width="9%">Yds</td><td class="text11B" valign="bottom" width="10%">False Start</td><td class="text11B" valign="bottom" width="9%">Holding</td><td class="text11B" valign="bottom" width="9%">Sacks Allwd</td><td class="text11B" valign="bottom" width="9%">Yds</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ffffff"><td class="text11" align="left">1999</td><td class="text11" align="left">Den (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=07)</td><td class="text11">16</td><td class="text11">4</td><td class="text11">4</td><td class="text11">35</td><td class="text11">1</td><td class="text11">3</td><td class="text11">1.50</td><td class="text11">5.00</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ffffff"><td class="text11" align="left">2000</td><td class="text11" align="left">Den (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=07)</td><td class="text11">2</td><td class="text11">0</td><td class="text11">0</td><td class="text11">0</td><td class="text11">0</td><td class="text11">0</td><td class="text11">0.00</td><td class="text11">0.00</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ffffff"><td class="text11" align="left">2001</td><td class="text11" align="left">Den (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=07)</td><td class="text11">16</td><td class="text11">16</td><td class="text11">2</td><td class="text11">15</td><td class="text11">1</td><td class="text11">1</td><td class="text11">11.25</td><td class="text11">56.00</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ffffff"><td class="text11" align="left">2002</td><td class="text11" align="left">Buf (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=02)</td><td class="text11">16</td><td class="text11">16</td><td class="text11">5</td><td class="text11">50</td><td class="text11">1</td><td class="text11">3</td><td class="text11">5.00</td><td class="text11">43.50</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ffffff"><td class="text11" align="left">2003</td><td class="text11" align="left">Buf (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=02)</td><td class="text11">16</td><td class="text11">16</td><td class="text11">4</td><td class="text11">40</td><td class="text11">0</td><td class="text11">4</td><td class="text11">0.50</td><td class="text11">3.00</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ffffff"><td class="text11" align="left">2004</td><td class="text11" align="left">Buf (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/teams.asp?team=02)</td><td class="text11">12</td><td class="text11">12</td><td class="text11">2</td><td class="text11">20</td><td class="text11">0</td><td class="text11">2</td><td class="text11">0.00</td><td class="text11">0.00</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#cccccc"><td class="text11B" colspan="2" align="left">Totals</td><td class="text11B">78</td><td class="text11B">64</td><td class="text11B">-</td><td class="text11B">-</td><td class="text11B">-</td><td class="text11B">-</td><td class="text11B">-</td><td class="text11B">-</td></tr></tbody></table>
<!-- STATS Fantasy Advantage Copyright Footer -->[/QUOTE]

[Iehoshua]

Fire TD and name ICE the new GM. :up:
I was going to suggest we have ICE play tackle...

[Mudflap1]

Just because someone is concerned about something doesn't mean they think the sky is falling.

I am also concerned about the OL. Whether you think the sky is falling ornot, we don't have a LT, and that's an important part of any time. Our offensive line is currently worse than it was last season. I'd like to see TD make it better. So yes, I'm concerned. Doesn't mean I'm "giving up on the season" or anything, I just think we've got some work to do.
Perfectly said, and explains exactly my train of thought. There's no panic, but there is recognition that over 4+ years the O-line has not been stellar, and is in pretty shoddy shape right now. That being said, I'm pretty sure TD will bring in SOMEBODY to play LT, and we'll field some sort of line next year. But whether it will be a good one or not remains to be seen, and frankly, is probably not in the cards based on his track record over the past few years he's been here. I'm not 'panicking' or 'giving up on the season', but it's reality that we need linemen. I want to see J.P. Losman succeed, and that won't happen without a good offensive line.

Jon

[ICE74129]

Now come on Darth I am just over reacting and how was it put...'Ice's made up stats'? The guy sucked at LT that is why Denver didn't fight us to keep him. That is also why we didn't sign him for LT money at the time either. He is a CENTER plain and simple.

[ICE74129]

I was going to suggest we have ICE play tackle...
No unlike TD I understand limitations.

[Novacane]

1/2 a sack given up and 6 penalties in the last 2 years combined! Why do so many say we need a new center :huh:

[Mr. Cynical]

It's really odd with TD...I mean he seems to be a pretty good judge of talent (WM, LE, etc.) but for some reason he can't seem to judge OL talent very well. MW may pan out, but he was a #4 overall and we're just starting to see some light. The rest of the line is completely expendable. I'm just crossing my fingers that McNally will guide him in the draft.

[Mudflap1]

I think he's an ok center.

Jon

[Iehoshua]

Now come on Darth I am just over reacting and how was it put...'Ice's made up stats'? The guy sucked at LT that is why Denver didn't fight us to keep him. That is also why we didn't sign him for LT money at the time either. He is a CENTER plain and simple.
I have no arguments. To be honest I don't really care for Teague at all, never have...

I just believe this entire thread rant is way premature, hence the ribbing! :up:

[Mudflap1]

It's really odd with TD...I mean he seems to be a pretty good judge of talent (WM, LE, etc.) but for some reason he can't seem to judge OL talent very well. MW may pan out, but he was a #4 overall and we're just starting to see some light. The rest of the line is completely expendable. I'm just crossing my fingers that McNally will guide him in the draft.
Exactly!

Jon

[Forward_Lateral]

It's ok to be concerned, but we've only lost ONE PLAYER off of the O-line. The guy we lost only played in 3/4 of the game last year. I'm sure if TD could, he'd go out to his back yard and pick a LT off of the LT Tree, but the fact is, good, avaiable LT's don't grow on trees. The ones that are available want a boat load of cash, just look at what San Fran gave JJ. You guys need to relax, We have tons of options with the guys we have like Gandy, Peters, Teague, Tucker, not to mention guys that TD could bring in. Calm down, don't write the season off before it's even begun.

[Forward_Lateral]

It's really odd with TD...I mean he seems to be a pretty good judge of talent (WM, LE, etc.) but for some reason he can't seem to judge OL talent very well. MW may pan out, but he was a #4 overall and we're just starting to see some light. The rest of the line is completely expendable. I'm just crossing my fingers that McNally will guide him in the draft.

Agreed, BUT he didn't have McNally to help him choose the right guys in the past.

[Mr. Cynical]

1/2 a sack given up and 6 penalties in the last 2 years combined! Why do so many say we need a new center :huh:
IMO, I don't think you judge a center on sacks like you would with an LT. The center has more help from the guards and has more to do than prevent sacks, e.g., snap, anchor the line, etc. So judging a center is more subjective. Most sacks are going to come from speed rushers on the outside, which is why that stat is so important when judging an LT.

[Mr. Cynical]

Agreed, BUT he didn't have McNally to help him choose the right guys in the past.
Yep, that's why I said what I said....hopefully his year McN will guide him. :smile:

[BuffaloRanger]

Can a team succeed with an average line? Yes. But just think how good the Bills could be if they had had a dominant, smashmouth, Top 10 line.

TD has been negligent is his refusal to seriously uppgrade the line since he has been here. The MW pick was obvious - and way too high for a RT. He has tried to get by with 2nd tier players and the coachng change to McNally.

2 consecutive seasons of 50 + sacks. The starting QB was a statue. What did TD do? He improved the line by dropping Rueben and adding Villerial and a coach.

But the line improved so much last year, right? Look at the sack numbers you say?
So the worst teams in the NFL couldn't sack DB during our winning streak, big deal.

This line is weaker now than it was at the end of year - and that line wouldn't have even been in the Top 20 in the NFL.. TT is not a good center. He has not "taken control". The line gets no push. They rarely open up "a big hole" WM gets hit in the backfield way too much.

The sky isn't falling...it's business as usual. The line has been weak for years. Unless TD suddenly puts a real emphasis on improving the Oline the Bills will have a Bottom 10 line like they have for years.

[TedMock]

First off I know who Porkchop is. You just stated so yourself the #3 Tackle on the seahawks. He is too fat, to play RT read the scouting report on him.

As for Teague I am trying to find the site that shows sacks given up by linemen again. Yeah I am pretty sure he had 11 in the 16 game start.

this OL DOES suck. For any 'turnaround' as you state it we need an OL.

Lastly clown, the Offensive line is the single most important unit on a team. We dont' have the most important position filled on the most important unit so yeah folks need to be worried. You don't just plug anyone in there.

Clown? I apologize, I thought you were an adult. Oops. No worries, I know what I'm dealing with now. Hey everybody, I think somebody here needs a hug!

I never disputed, that O-line was the most important part of the team. As a matter of fact, I agree 100% I also never suggested that it's easy to just plug someone in. That would be ridiculous to suggest. We can't just signt somebody on day one of free agency either. Unfortunately, the business aspect of it comes into play. As I said before, we're all concerned about the o-line, but we do have faith in the coaches. If we can bring in a solid ball player, it won't take as long to adjust. Couple that with a more mobile QB, and we're able to buy a little time.

[Iehoshua]

You're right. That does it. If we don't sign a tackle in the next 15 minutes, I'm going to hold my breath until I die...
:dead:

[ICE74129]

I have no problem with Teague at Center. JMac said hands down he was the most improved player. If you watch he honestly got damn good there. He lacks some size but blocking schemes help with that.

Left tackle to me is THE position on a football team. It is the one position I pay out the nose to have a probowler at. Sorry that is just me. right now we don't even have a guy onthe roster that can cut it for what we need.

[Mudflap1]

As for other teams turning it around in a year.....bull! Hmm, where should we start? Carolina? Okay. They were 11-5 in 2003 and went to the Superbowl. Not bad. Of course they went 7-9 the following year due to injuries. Let's see this 1-year turn around. Here are the years and records: 2002: 7-9, 2001: 1-15, 2000: 7-9, 1999: 8-8, 1998: 4-12, 1997: 7-9, 1996: 12-4. There it is! 12-4 to 6 consecutive losing seasons, then they finally had a big year. This is not a 1-year turn around. It takes drafts and free agency, unless you want that 1 year hit before dumping everybody and starting all over again.

New England stayed somewhere around .500 for a while before Belichick took over. He went 5-11, then turned it around. They were 8-8 and 9-7 the two years prior, while the record bounced between 5-11 and 11-5 the several years before that. Most of the time around the .500 mark. They obviously made a bad move with Pete Carroll. Philly had 2 losing seasons before Reid got there. However, they were 10-6 the two years prior. 5-11 in Reid's first year, and then the turnaround started. A lot of the Ray Rhoades players were still around for Reid's success.
I seriously disagree with you here. Carolina was 1-15, they brought in John Fox, he got them to 7-9, Super Bowl the next year. They had a lot of injuries last year and were 7-9. Look for them to be a playoff contender this year. Anyway, they went from 'geek to sheik' in one year basically. Yeah, there were guys that were around, but they made enough personnel moves and enough coaching decisions that they got to the Super Bowl.

New England was mediocre. Belichick came in, gutted the team, and they went 5-11. The next year they won the Super Bowl. Pretty fast turnaround.

If the Eagles were 10-6 the two years prior to Reid, then why did Ray Rhodes get fired? Because they were 10-6 for two consecutive years, but had a bad year after that (what the record was, I don't have handy, but I'm from Philadelphia...). Reid took over, gutted the team, went 5-11, then made the playoffs every year after that. Pretty fast turnaround.

I stay true to what I said. When a new GM and/or coach comes in and says "we're rebuilding" and they do a good job, it's generally about a 3 year project. Not 4 years with no playoffs. My point is all of those teams mentioned have good offensive lines, among other things. Those lines were put together quickly, by year two or three. Not sitting here 4+ years later 'negligently' as someone put with a medicore line.

Again, no panic here, but it's something that HAS to be addressed this offseason, in one way or another. You can pin our playoff hopes directly to it. TOP PRIORITY.

Jon

[Gunzlingr]

1/2 a sack given up and 6 penalties in the last 2 years combined! Why do so many say we need a new center :huh:
That dude sucks! I say cut him and make Jason Peters the center!

[TedMock]

Damn I was wrong. It was 11.25 sacks. Hey TedMock, any more crap you want to spew?[/QUOTE]

Yes, as a matter of fact there is. First of all, let me apologize for being incorrect about the 2001 sack total. I looked it up myself, looked at the wrong year, and thought you were nuts. I was wrong about that. My bigger issue is the panic and calling Womack "some 4th round 3rd stringer" when that's not what he is. 3rd tackle is not 3rd string. He actually started 8 games last year, and is pretty decent. I don't want Teague at LT, please. If the coaches truly believe that he can play there, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Again, I believe o-line is most important. That's what I preach to the kids I coach..."Without the line nothing else works." My other issue is the fact that I didn't come to start with name calling, and that crap. I think Bills fans in general overreact quite a bit, so that's what I was getting at. I'm not one of these guys that reports things to the mods, but don't do that crap. It's uncalled for.

[TedMock]

I seriously disagree with you here. Carolina was 1-15, they brought in John Fox, he got them to 7-9, Super Bowl the next year. They had a lot of injuries last year and were 7-9. Look for them to be a playoff contender this year. Anyway, they went from 'geek to sheik' in one year basically. Yeah, there were guys that were around, but they made enough personnel moves and enough coaching decisions that they got to the Super Bowl.

New England was mediocre. Belichick came in, gutted the team, and they went 5-11. The next year they won the Super Bowl. Pretty fast turnaround.

If the Eagles were 10-6 the two years prior to Reid, then why did Ray Rhodes get fired? Because they were 10-6 for two consecutive years, but had a bad year after that (what the record was, I don't have handy, but I'm from Philadelphia...). Reid took over, gutted the team, went 5-11, then made the playoffs every year after that. Pretty fast turnaround.

I stay true to what I said. When a new GM and/or coach comes in and says "we're rebuilding" and they do a good job, it's generally about a 3 year project. Not 4 years with no playoffs. My point is all of those teams mentioned have good offensive lines, among other things. Those lines were put together quickly, by year two or three. Not sitting here 4+ years later 'negligently' as someone put with a medicore line.

Again, no panic here, but it's something that HAS to be addressed this offseason, in one way or another. You can pin our playoff hopes directly to it. TOP PRIORITY.

Jon


I wholeheartedly agree with you. I was getting at the teams struggle, but sometimes all it takes is a good coach to instill confidence. Otherwise, it's not a 1-year turnaround. Rhodes' last 2 years were losing seasons, the 2 years prior were 10-6. A lot of the roster remained, but Reid got rid of the cancers...ie. Watters. We definitely need to address the oline, no argument here. I'm hoping that JP's mobility buys us a little time, and that Mularky is John Fox, Andy Reid, etc. I think aside from the line, Bledsoe was the wildcard. Had he kept the same stats, but avoided a few extra sacks, things could've been different. We had a lot pinned on him, and it didn't work. Just keep your fingers crossed that this line improves.

[ICE74129]

Fair enough. It is a done deal as for as I am concerned. I appologise also. I just don't like someone calling me out when I had the facts right there. But it was miscommunication all around. I appologise

[ICE74129]

Carolina is my #2 team and I can tell you they got SCREWED injury wise. John Fox should have been Coach of the year. They had like 12 guys fugged up including a probowl WR and the best DT currently in the game. Hell they brought in a guy from Indy to play tackle for them. His butt retired right before camp started!

Keep an eye on the Panthers this year, they will contend for the superbowl again.

[TedMock]

Carolina is my #2 team and I can tell you they got SCREWED injury wise. John Fox should have been Coach of the year. They had like 12 guys fugged up including a probowl WR and the best DT currently in the game. Hell they brought in a guy from Indy to play tackle for them. His butt retired right before camp started!

Keep an eye on the Panthers this year, they will contend for the superbowl again.

Carolina's my pick in the NFC this year as well. Don't forget they also had their top 3 RB's all injured at one point too. John Fox is a great coach, no doubt about it.

[SoCalBillsFan]

Yes the line lost one guy, but he was arguably the best guy at arguably the most important spot. We need to get a solid replacement. That's all I am saying. The season isn't over, I'm perfectly relaxed, and all that stuff.

We've still got time and there are still some guys out there. I'm sure TD has a plan, I am hoping its a good one. But I can't exactly be confident about the team until I feel we have a solid line. Hopefully that day will come soon.

[Meathead]

waa waa waaaaa

[Ebenezer]

guys...watch the name calling and instructions to perform bodily acts...otherwise, carry on.

[jpdex12]

Take your insults and overall lack of football knowledge somewhere else.

What is this, a 15 year project??? How long does it take to get an offensive line together? The Panthers turned it around in a year, the Patriots turned it around in a year, the Eagles got progressively better over two years and went from cellar dweller to perennial playoff team to perennial Super Bowl contender.

FIVE YEARS AND NO PLAYOFSS!!!!! What are we waiting for?

JonWell come one! You guys are whining. What else would you call it? Our line was pretty decent the last half of the year. We put 6 in a row together and I'll bet you complainers never would have imagined that we would finish with a 9-7 record after the first 4 games. We didn't use Willis hardly at all the first 5 games either. He ran for 1100+ yards this year and missed pretty much 5 games. If he would have played every game all game and racked up 1700 yards would you still be complaining? Hell, we would have made the playoffs if that would have happened. So maybe you should be pissed at TH for not getting hurt on the first play of the season so my boy Willis would have started from day one! I'd say that TD and MM are doing well. No one is perfect. We had a lot of negatives against us (cap, defense, offense, old players) when TD came in here and he has turned most of them around. We are on the up side with this o-line issue. Considering that Tucker did start at LG last year we are only missing one cog in the wheel (JJ). TD will replace that position with a blue collar worker that will tough it out as opposed to the often injured JJ. If he wasn't in the last year of his contract this past season I guarentee that he would have missed more games due to injury.
As far as the Panthers and Eagles that you mentioned, what happened to the 2003 NFC Champs this past year? Don't blame it on injuries because as far as your standards are there are no excuses for not taking a crap team and turning them into a superbowl team in three years and then maintaining that status and success for 10 straight years. You know so many teams do this on a regular basis. The Eagles have an impressive string going as well...3 straight NFC Championship losses and one SB loss. No one seems to give a **** that Buffalo went to 4 straight SB's, so screw the Eagles.
Ease up on our team man. We all want to win as bad as you do but many things have to be just perfect to make the playoffs and luck has to be on your side. If we had a little more luck then we would have made it this year. Don't say that luck isn't so because if that were the case then the Steelers would have lost the Divisional playoff against the Jets this year.
Get it done TD!

[BuffaloRanger]

Why did TH play so poorly this year? He was a back to back 1300 yd rusher. What happened? Could it be that the line sucked?

Did it take a faster RB and weaker opponents to make the Oline look decent. Ever notice how many times WM got hit for no gain or a loss? It happened alot.

Did the Oline magically jell? Or was it WM making things happen.

Anyway last year was last year. The Oline is weaker now.

PS: JPD - paragraphs and line spacing makes it easier to read posts.

[The Natrix]

I'd be a lot more worried about the O-line if Bledsoe was QBing. When Drew was in there, all the D line and other blitzers only though about one thing: Get to Drew. They didn't even have to worry about possibly containing him on the outsides as Drew never was able to roll out except for by design. They knew Bledsoe would be in the pocket holding the ball.

I know the O-line doesn't look great on paper but it's far from bad, IMO. Besides, what did you want TD to do? Throw huge bucks at a weak bunch of FA OL? I think this line will rally hard around JP and be decent. Plus there is the draft, June 1st cuts and trade possibilities. I think some of you are panicking way to earlier and need a vacation.

[Mudflap1]

as far as your standards are there are no excuses for not taking a crap team and turning them into a superbowl team in three years and then maintaining that status and success for 10 straight yearsWhere did I say this? I'm a fan just as much as you are, and we're all on the same team, but don't misquote me or call me a whiner. I give a damn, that's all, and I'm not afraid to call someone (Tom Donahoe?) out if I think they are not getting the job done.


Why did TH play so poorly this year? He was a back to back 1300 yd rusher. What happened? Could it be that the line sucked?

Did it take a faster RB and weaker opponents to make the Oline look decent. Ever notice how many times WM got hit for no gain or a loss? It happened alot.

Did the Oline magically jell? Or was it WM making things happen.

Anyway last year was last year. The Oline is weaker now.My point exactly. The Bills did not make the playoffs last year, and the offensive line as it stands is weaker than last year's team. In fact, you could make an argument we have one of, if not the worst offensive line in the league (maybe outside of Miami). The line has been neglected for YEARS by Tom Donahoe. What would Willis McGahee do if we had a GOOD line? Maybe Willis is that damn good, ever think of that?


I'd be a lot more worried about the O-line if Bledsoe was QBingI see what you're getting at, but I'm the opposite. Yeah, if Drew is in there, he's gonna take sacks. However, with the young, unproven, and probably somewhat fragile (mentally and physically due to his inexperience) J.P. Losman back there, a crappy line REALLY scares me, much more than if Drew Bledsoe or any veteran is back there. The thing we DO need is a good line where you can run, rely on Willis, and make sure J.P. doesn't get killed back there.

Jon

[Novacane]

However, with the young, unproven, and probably somewhat fragile (mentally and physically due to his inexperience) J.P. Losman back there, a crappy line REALLY scares me, much more than if Drew Bledsoe or any veteran is back there. The


:huh: How does being young and unproven make Losman physically fragile? Mentally maybe but physically?

[Dozerdog]

It's not panicking worrying out loud about our LT situation, even though there are plenty of options before the season starts.


Panicking would be to shell out $35-40 million for average LT talent.

[Mudflap1]

How does being young and unproven make Losman physically fragile? Mentally maybe but physically?
He was injured last year. I don't want to see him get KILLED this year.

Jon

[jpdex12]

Where did I say this? I'm a fan just as much as you are, and we're all on the same team, but don't misquote me or call me a whiner. I give a damn, that's all, and I'm not afraid to call someone (Tom Donahoe?) out if I think they are not getting the job done.

My point exactly. The Bills did not make the playoffs last year, and the offensive line as it stands is weaker than last year's team. In fact, you could make an argument we have one of, if not the worst offensive line in the league (maybe outside of Miami). The line has been neglected for YEARS by Tom Donahoe. What would Willis McGahee do if we had a GOOD line? Maybe Willis is that damn good, ever think of that?

I see what you're getting at, but I'm the opposite. Yeah, if Drew is in there, he's gonna take sacks. However, with the young, unproven, and probably somewhat fragile (mentally and physically due to his inexperience) J.P. Losman back there, a crappy line REALLY scares me, much more than if Drew Bledsoe or any veteran is back there. The thing we DO need is a good line where you can run, rely on Willis, and make sure J.P. doesn't get killed back there.

JonWell, I've given a damn about this team since 1988. The problem with today's society is that our youth expects everything for nothing. It sems as though everyone expected TD to be god and magically snap his fingers and field a team of 11 probowlers on each side of the ball in one season. (but don't misquote me or call me a whiner) I won't use sarcasm (jedi mind trick) on you anymore if you are goinna cry. (I'm not afraid to call someone (Tom Donahoe?) out if I think they are not getting the job done.) Why don't you call Big Tom and tell him and maybe he'll take your critisism to heart and resign? By the way, who do you think that our next GM should be?

If you think that we've got the worst line in the league how come we weren't ranked last in rushing Einstein? Or is that your way of using sarcasm?
TD was hired Jan.10th 2001, here is the OL activity he created:

2002 <TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="10%" bgColor=#bbbdc6>Pick</TD><TD width="40%" bgColor=#bbbdc6>Name</TD><TD width="10%" bgColor=#bbbdc6>Pos.</TD><TD width="40%" bgColor=#bbbdc6>School</TD></TR><TR><TD>1.</TD><TD>Mike Williams </TD><TD>T</TD><TD>Texas (4)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

2001
<TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD>3b.^</TD><TD>Jonas Jennings </TD><TD>OT</TD><TD>Georgia (95) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


FA
Brought Teague onto the team in 2002 via FA
Brought Villarial onto the team in 2004 via FA
Brought Tucker onto the team in 2003 via FA

that's five starters he has created for the Bills and I have heard many posters praise this line up if we could just sign a decent LT to replace Jennings. So you say that TD has neglected the line....how so? Do you want him to sign two OLinemen for 6 years, $40 million combined with $30 million in SB like the Deadskins and put us in cap hell? What do you expect? We finished 13th in the league in rushing last year, learn the facts before you sound ignorant!
Our line got better last year and you know it. It's not TD's fault that JJ was greedy. We have one starting LT to find and another decent backup.
this team will be fine, we will make the playoffs and then what will you say about TD? If by some chance that we go on to win the SB this year, what will you complain about next...we didn't win by enough?

[Mudflap1]

Well, I've given a damn about this team since 1988. The problem with today's society is that our youth expects everything for nothing. It sems as though everyone expected TD to be god and magically snap his fingers and field a team of 11 probowlers on each side of the ball in one season. (but don't misquote me or call me a whiner) I won't use sarcasm (jedi mind trick) on you anymore if you are goinna cry. (I'm not afraid to call someone (Tom Donahoe?) out if I think they are not getting the job done.) Why don't you call Big Tom and tell him and maybe he'll take your critisism to heart and resign? By the way, who do you think that our next GM should be?

If you think that we've got the worst line in the league how come we weren't ranked last in rushing Einstein? Or is that your way of using sarcasm?

that's five starters he has created for the Bills and I have heard many posters praise this line up if we could just sign a decent LT to replace Jennings. So you say that TD has neglected the line....how so? Do you want him to sign two OLinemen for 6 years, $40 million combined with $30 million in SB like the Deadskins and put us in cap hell? What do you expect? We finished 13th in the league in rushing last year, learn the facts before you sound ignorant!

Our line got better last year and you know it. It's not TD's fault that JJ was greedy. We have one starting LT to find and another decent backup.
this team will be fine, we will make the playoffs and then what will you say about TD? If by some chance that we go on to win the SB this year, what will you complain about next...we didn't win by enough?
Today 04:58 PM


And I sound like the whiner to you????? :question:

As a matter of fact, I've given a damn about this team since 1988 too. All I said back to your last response was don't call me a whiner, I give a damn about the Bills and I'm not afraid to challenge the praising of Tom Donahoe or others. If I feel there is something to talk about that might be of the nature of what the Bills aren't doing wrong, or what they could be doing better, I feel I'm at liberty to bring that up. This IS a forum on the Buffalo Bills right? This isn't the Buffalo Bills Official Cheerleading Site last time I checked, you are allowed to voice your opinion.

You think that my suggesting that the offensive line the past 5 years is mediocre at best is ignorant? Are you watching the same games as the rest of us??? Did you not see the quarterback (Drew or no Drew) not have more than 2 seconds to pass on a lot of occasions, and running backs getting stuffed in the backfield time after time??? Yeah, Willis and Henry have had some good years here, and the line played better the second half of last season, but maybe the backs are that good???

Teague -- medicore center.
Villarial -- replaced Ruben Brown. Average to slightly above average run blocker, average pass blocker.
Mike Williams -- was a big dissapointment until last year, where he turned into a very solid run blocker, but still about an average pass blocker.
Jonas Jennings -- decent, not great, but where is he right now??? And who do we have playing LT as it stands today? Dylan McFarland?
Ross Tucker -- average at best. Scrappy, a mucker (I like him personally), but average physical skills.

So we have three average guys, a RT that is starting to improve, and no left tackle. Doesn't sound like an all-star, Super Bowl-ready line to me.

Yeah, those are my opinions, but I don't think they are far fetched at all. I haven't seen the Bills line consistently win the trench war for years. Where were they against Pittsburgh's backups with the season on the line? There are others to blame, Bledsoe being one, but the line hasn't done us any favors the past several years. I'm excited about McNally, because I think he got these guys to play better by the end of last season, and if he gets a bunch of young guys, he could probably mold something decent. But he's gotta get some guys with some real upside in there. Particularly a left tackle.

Oh, and keep personal attacks and name calling outta this, it's really old, tiring, infantile, lame, and yes, ignorant.

Jon

[colin]

mike williams is one of the most gifted young o linemen around, he should be a very very solid LT for us, or RT too. if we sign pork chop we have to massive bruiser tackles, great for a power running team.

while we do need to grab some more O line talent this offseason, saying "LT should be addressed on day one of FA" is just dumb, the only team that did that paid top dollar for our JJ cast off (and JJ is a poor run blocker, we had a much better average running on the strong side, the left side and middle were poor).

we don't have the best line around by a long shot, but exactly how are we going to upgrade it? by overpaying so that we have to let clements walk next year? maybe if it gets us top guys, but not for marco back surgery riveria and jonas 40 million jennings.

we need some new blood in here, but we don't need too much to be pretty solid on the line.

[jpdex12]

And I sound like the whiner to you????? :question:

As a matter of fact, I've given a damn about this team since 1988 too. All I said back to your last response was don't call me a whiner, I give a damn about the Bills and I'm not afraid to challenge the praising of Tom Donahoe or others. If I feel there is something to talk about that might be of the nature of what the Bills aren't doing wrong, or what they could be doing better, I feel I'm at liberty to bring that up. This IS a forum on the Buffalo Bills right? This isn't the Buffalo Bills Official Cheerleading Site last time I checked, you are allowed to voice your opinion.

You think that my suggesting that the offensive line the past 5 years is mediocre at best is ignorant? Are you watching the same games as the rest of us??? Did you not see the quarterback (Drew or no Drew) not have more than 2 seconds to pass on a lot of occasions, and running backs getting stuffed in the backfield time after time??? Yeah, Willis and Henry have had some good years here, and the line played better the second half of last season, but maybe the backs are that good???

Teague -- medicore center.
Villarial -- replaced Ruben Brown. Average to slightly above average run blocker, average pass blocker.
Mike Williams -- was a big dissapointment until last year, where he turned into a very solid run blocker, but still about an average pass blocker.
Jonas Jennings -- decent, not great, but where is he right now??? And who do we have playing LT as it stands today? Dylan McFarland?
Ross Tucker -- average at best. Scrappy, a mucker (I like him personally), but average physical skills.

So we have three average guys, a RT that is starting to improve, and no left tackle. Doesn't sound like an all-star, Super Bowl-ready line to me.

Yeah, those are my opinions, but I don't think they are far fetched at all. I haven't seen the Bills line consistently win the trench war for years. Where were they against Pittsburgh's backups with the season on the line? There are others to blame, Bledsoe being one, but the line hasn't done us any favors the past several years. I'm excited about McNally, because I think he got these guys to play better by the end of last season, and if he gets a bunch of young guys, he could probably mold something decent. But he's gotta get some guys with some real upside in there. Particularly a left tackle.

Oh, and keep personal attacks and name calling outta this, it's really old, tiring, infantile, lame, and yes, ignorant.

JonWe'll see about TD. You may be eating your words and I'm willing to bet that it wouldn't be the first time!

[mysticsoto]

Well, I've given a damn about this team since 1988. The problem with today's society is that our youth expects everything for nothing. It sems as though everyone expected TD to be god and magically snap his fingers and field a team of 11 probowlers on each side of the ball in one season. (but don't misquote me or call me a whiner) I won't use sarcasm (jedi mind trick) on you anymore if you are goinna cry. (I'm not afraid to call someone (Tom Donahoe?) out if I think they are not getting the job done.) Why don't you call Big Tom and tell him and maybe he'll take your critisism to heart and resign? By the way, who do you think that our next GM should be?

If you think that we've got the worst line in the league how come we weren't ranked last in rushing Einstein? Or is that your way of using sarcasm?
TD was hired Jan.10th 2001, here is the OL activity he created:

2002 <table width="100%"><tbody><tr><td bgcolor="#bbbdc6" width="10%">Pick</td><td bgcolor="#bbbdc6" width="40%">Name</td><td bgcolor="#bbbdc6" width="10%">Pos.</td><td bgcolor="#bbbdc6" width="40%">School</td></tr><tr><td>1.</td><td>Mike Williams </td><td>T</td><td>Texas (4)</td></tr></tbody></table>

2001
<table width="100%"><tbody><tr><td>3b.^</td><td>Jonas Jennings </td><td>OT</td><td>Georgia (95) </td></tr></tbody></table>


FA
Brought Teague onto the team in 2002 via FA
Brought Villarial onto the team in 2004 via FA
Brought Tucker onto the team in 2003 via FA

that's five starters he has created for the Bills and I have heard many posters praise this line up if we could just sign a decent LT to replace Jennings. So you say that TD has neglected the line....how so? Do you want him to sign two OLinemen for 6 years, $40 million combined with $30 million in SB like the Deadskins and put us in cap hell? What do you expect? We finished 13th in the league in rushing last year, learn the facts before you sound ignorant!
Our line got better last year and you know it. It's not TD's fault that JJ was greedy. We have one starting LT to find and another decent backup.
this team will be fine, we will make the playoffs and then what will you say about TD? If by some chance that we go on to win the SB this year, what will you complain about next...we didn't win by enough?
Thanks for pointing this out. It is true that people just want immediate gratification. They are complaining about the state of our line when they haven't even seen who is going to be on the line and how they are going to play together. We haven't even been to the draft yet and are no where close to training camp. But they want immediate gratification and want everything done, NOW. These are the type of people that sit in front of a microwave and yell, "C'mon!!!" For the most part, all they do is annoy the rest of us who are waiting to see what happens but don't expect nor whine b'cse a part of next years' team isn't the way we want it 1 month after the superbowl...

[Forward_Lateral]

Why did TH play so poorly this year? He was a back to back 1300 yd rusher. What happened? Could it be that the line sucked?

Did it take a faster RB and weaker opponents to make the Oline look decent. Ever notice how many times WM got hit for no gain or a loss? It happened alot.

Did the Oline magically jell? Or was it WM making things happen.

Anyway last year was last year. The Oline is weaker now.

PS: JPD - paragraphs and line spacing makes it easier to read posts.

TH sucked because he has no 'field vision', NOT because of the O-line. Sure the O-line isn't the best in the NFL, but Henry seems to need a hole big enough to fit a monster truck through it in order for him to 'hit' it. He's horrible at making adjusments on the move. He is constantly running into the backs of his lineman, piles, etc. He made the line look A LOT worse than it actually was.

That's why he sucked, not becasuse of the O Line.

[Mudflap1]

We'll see about TD. You may be eating your words and I'm willing to bet that it wouldn't be the first time!Hey sport -- don't call me out, or if you do, get your facts straight. If you read the posts on here and 'know your facts' as you would say, you'd see I've said on many occasions that I'd LOVE to be wrong about Tom Donahoe, and that if he pulls it together and we have a great o-line, great team, etc. I'll be the first to say great job. Believe it or not, I'm actually pulling for the team and their personnel (what a concept!). I'm just not a sheep kissing their ass with every move they make because every move they make ISN'T right.


LT should be addressed on day one of FAWho said this? All I've heard anyone saying is that LT should be TOP PRIORITY, and should've been for the past 5 years. Jennings was ok, but really, was he a bookend left tackle for years and years to come? Don't kid yourself. And where are we now? Yeah, there's a lot of time left, I think some are just stating that this should be something taken care of sooner than later for the sake of gelling, film, offseason workouts, meeting with McNally, etc.

Jon

[BuffaloRanger]

So TH lost his field vision in the offseason? After back to back 1300yd seasons?
I think WM makes the Oline look alot better than it is...or was.

To All concerned: TD's Oline gave up 50+ sacks (most in the NFL by non-expansion team) in 2002 AND 2003. That totally sucks by any standard.

So what did TD do last offseason? TD knew he had a statue in DB at QB but he NEGLECTED to improve the line. Last year he replaced Brown with Villarial AFTER his line gave up 50+ sacks. That's the only player addition last offseason. Fans put there faith in McNally who continually stated "I can't perform miracles." Our line sucked until WM started last season. Why? Because they jelled? Coaching? or WM finding the smallest holes?

A combination of WM and weaker opponents made the Oline look better. But sacks followed by fumbles returned for TDs cost us two home games (Pats and Steelers.)

It's not the average Olineman that TD brought in that shows his neglect.

It's all the quality FA Olineman over the years that TD didn't even bother to bring to Buffalo for a visit. They went on to improve other teams.

It's not picking an Olinmean in the draft higher than the 6th round since JJ.

[Forward_Lateral]

So TH lost his field vision in the offseason? After back to back 1300yd seasons?
I think WM makes the Oline look alot better than it is...or was.

To All concerned: TD's Oline gave up 50+ sacks (most in the NFL by non-expansion team) in 2002 AND 2003. That totally sucks by any standard.

So what did TD do last offseason? TD knew he had a statue in DB at QB but he NEGLECTED to improve the line. Last year he replaced Brown with Villarial AFTER his line gave up 50+ sacks. That's the only player addition last offseason. Fans put there faith in McNally who continually stated "I can't perform miracles." Our line sucked until WM started last season. Why? Because they jelled? Coaching? or WM finding the smallest holes?

A combination of WM and weaker opponents made the Oline look better. But sacks followed by fumbles returned for TDs cost us two home games (Pats and Steelers.)

It's not the average Olineman that TD brought in that shows his neglect.

It's all the quality FA Olineman over the years that TD didn't even bother to bring to Buffalo for a visit. They went on to improve other teams.

It's not picking an Olinmean in the draft higher than the 6th round since JJ.

This is the worst post I've ever read. Do you want TD to just over pay for every FA lineman that becomes available? Would you rather he kept a very over rated JJ for the obscene amount of $$ San Fran gave him?
If you think our line didn't improve this year over last, you must've missed every single game. Our line even improved over the course of the season.

As for TH, he's always had lack of vision, it's just been ignored in the past because of his yardage. I'm not saying he isn't any good, I'm just saying that he doesn't have IT. Willis has IT. He can make plays, he doesn't give up on plays. Does he make the O-line look better than it is? Maybe. But the O Line is not as big a problem as you are stating.

[Tatonka]

He was injured last year. I don't want to see him get KILLED this year.

Jon

him being injured last year was a freak thing.. he took a beating for years at tulane and was always healthy.

as long as he slides, he will be fine.

[Tatonka]

To All concerned: TD's Oline gave up 50+ sacks (most in the NFL by non-expansion team) in 2002 AND 2003. That totally sucks by any standard.



your right.. none of those sacks were due to the statue back there in the pocket.. i am sure that a qb with any sort of mobility or pocket presence would have done just as bad.

[BuffaloRanger]

your right.. none of those sacks were due to the statue back there in the pocket.. i am sure that a qb with any sort of mobility or pocket presence would have done just as bad.


THE POINT IS TD KNEW HE HAD A STATUE AND DID NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE LINE!!

[mysticsoto]

THE POINT IS TD KNEW HE HAD A STATUE AND DID NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE LINE!!
Uhhh...maybe b'cse he was shoring up other positions...as I recall, the plan to deal with that was to have Bledsoe develop an internal clock and get rid of the ball quicker. Too bad you can't teach an old dog new tricks...actually, come to think of it...didn't he bring Villareal last year? Gee, what a dud he turned out to be...

[Forward_Lateral]

THE POINT IS TD KNEW HE HAD A STATUE AND DID NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE LINE!!

Nothing? He signed Villarial (The best FA Guard last off-season). He got rid of Ruben "1st and 20" Brown. He brought in the very best O-line coach (McNally). What more did you want him to do? It's not like FA O-lineman are at an abundance, especially for the right cost.

[Mudflap1]

didn't he bring Villareal last year?
Yes, he did. But we lost Ruben Brown. Not that Ruben was spectacular, but it basically came down to the Bears letting go their RG to us, and us letting go our LG to them.

Jon

[Forward_Lateral]

Yes, he did. But we lost Ruben Brown. Not that Ruben was spectacular, but it basically came down to the Bears letting go their RG to us, and us letting go our LG to them.

Jon
And if you don't think Villarial was 100 X better than Ruben at that point in Ruben's career, you are on drugs.

[Forward_Lateral]

Thread Date Posted By Comment
does anyone realise how... 03-11-2005 03:16 PM BuffaloRanger BLOW ME


:rofl:

You :posrep: 'd me instead of :negrep: ing me!! LOL

[BuffaloRanger]

This is the worst post I've ever read. Do you want TD to just over pay for every FA lineman that becomes available? Would you rather he kept a very over rated JJ for the obscene amount of $$ San Fran gave him?
If you think our line didn't improve this year over last, you must've missed every single game. Our line even improved over the course of the season.

As for TH, he's always had lack of vision, it's just been ignored in the past because of his yardage. I'm not saying he isn't any good, I'm just saying that he doesn't have IT. Willis has IT. He can make plays, he doesn't give up on plays. Does he make the O-line look better than it is? Maybe. But the O Line is not as big a problem as you are stating.


It can't be the worst post you ever read because you didn't read what I wrote.
Show me where I said the Bills should have signed JJ. Show me. Please enlighten me. Where did I write it? You are making **** up.

I don't want him to overpay for "EVERY FA LINEMAN" that becomes available. I want him to recognize the Oline sucks and improve it by signing just 1 good player off of FA or drafting one early.


What I wrote was that TD failed to bring in quality FA lineman over the last 2 offseasons. Even though his line gave up 50+ sacks. He only signed Villerial to replace RB. He didn't try to sign anyone.

If you have a statue at QB you improve the line or keep the weak line and change the QB. TD did neither.

The oline magically improved when the Bills changed RBs. So was it the Oline or the RB? I watched DB get sacked and fumble costing us a playoff spot. Could a better Oline have prevented that?

The O Line is not as big a problem as I am stating?

Yes it is still early. But right now we have no LT. Who is our LG? Our Center is weak.

Get your head out of the sand!

[BuffaloRanger]

Thread Date Posted By Comment
does anyone realise how... 03-11-2005 03:16 PM BuffaloRanger BLOW ME


:rofl:

You :posrep: 'd me instead of :negrep: ing me!! LOL




How about I just insult you. Idiot.

[Novacane]

Thread Date Posted By Comment
does anyone realise how... 03-11-2005 03:16 PM BuffaloRanger BLOW ME


:rofl:

You :posrep: 'd me instead of :negrep: ing me!! LOL


:rofl: I've done that before. I get so intent on leaving a good neg comment I forget to click on disaprove

[Mudflap1]

And if you don't think Villarial was 100 X better than Ruben at that point in Ruben's career, you are on drugs.
I'd say Villarial is better. 100x better? I wouldn't go that far. Villarial is an above average lineman. Ruben's about average at this point in his career.

Very sad to see Ruben missed the Pro Bowl this past year...

Jon

[Novacane]

I'd say Villarial is better. 100x better? I wouldn't go that far. Villarial is an above average lineman. Ruben's about average at this point in his career.

Very sad to see Ruben missed the Pro Bowl this past year...

Jon



RB has been average for a while. He is below average now.


*expect a juice rant shortly

[jpdex12]

Yes, he did. But we lost Ruben Brown. Not that Ruben was spectacular, but it basically came down to the Bears letting go their RG to us, and us letting go our LG to them.

Jon
I'd say that we got the better of the deal! ANother dumb move by TD right?

[BuffaloRanger]

Not a dumb move by TD. Having to rely on a TE and DE to transfer over and start at LT and LG...now that would be dumb.

Did TD make an offer to Womack or Demulling?

If he signs both of them (to a good deal) and drafts a center on Day 1 I will applaud TD louder than anyone.

[mysticsoto]

Not a dumb move by TD. Having to rely on a TE and DE to transfer over and start at LT and LG...now that would be dumb.

Did TD make an offer to Womack or Demulling?

If he signs both of them (to a good deal) and drafts a center on Day 1 I will applaud TD louder than anyone.
Bannan is a DT and already played LG occasionally last year and looked good. Mind you, he's not TD's idea - McNally requested him himself!!!

As for Peters, just look at him. 330 lbs and he's not your typical fat bulky type of person. Even at 330, he looks solid! He'll make a great OT and if McNally can find a way to teach him quickly, he might even be in this year...

[BuffaloRanger]

DT is what I meant for Denney.

I am all for Diamonds in the rough. Mcnally can probably make them into good players. I just hope they don't have to start this season though.

Why can't Peters play LDE?

[Forward_Lateral]

It can't be the worst post you ever read because you didn't read what I wrote.
Show me where I said the Bills should have signed JJ. Show me. Please enlighten me. Where did I write it? You are making **** up.

I don't want him to overpay for "EVERY FA LINEMAN" that becomes available. I want him to recognize the Oline sucks and improve it by signing just 1 good player off of FA or drafting one early.


What I wrote was that TD failed to bring in quality FA lineman over the last 2 offseasons. Even though his line gave up 50+ sacks. He only signed Villerial to replace RB. He didn't try to sign anyone.

If you have a statue at QB you improve the line or keep the weak line and change the QB. TD did neither.

The oline magically improved when the Bills changed RBs. So was it the Oline or the RB? I watched DB get sacked and fumble costing us a playoff spot. Could a better Oline have prevented that?

The O Line is not as big a problem as I am stating?

Yes it is still early. But right now we have no LT. Who is our LG? Our Center is weak.

Get your head out of the sand!

You're right, it wasn't the worst post I've ever read, this one is. You just stated that, and I quote "I just want him to recognize that the line sucks and improve it by signing just ONE FA"

Didn't he sign Villarial? That's ONE GOOD FA. This year he's already signed Gandy, talked to Pork Chop and Demulling, don't forget Shelton. What more do you want TD to do? He can't beg guys to sign with the Bills. He's obviously, thankfully, not going to try to over pay for guys either. He's not working with an endless pit of money, contrary to what many think.

Now, before you tell me to get my head out of the sand, maybe you should think about getting yours back where the sun shines.

As for calling me an idiot, I'll still sleep at night, thanks though.

:negrep:

[Forward_Lateral]

DT is what I meant for Denney.

I am all for Diamonds in the rough. Mcnally can probably make them into good players. I just hope they don't have to start this season though.

Why can't Peters play LDE?

Denney weight 275 pounds, he'd get destroyed at Tackle. He'd have to gain at least 50-75 pounds to stand a chance.

[Bill Brasky]

Come on folks. We have no left tackle. It is so stunning to me how many people are so flipant about not having one. it is THE position on the OL!

Mike Williams is too fat and slow. Teague is now rummored by TD to move there. Gee the guy has been a center for 3 years so NOW lets move him? WTF? The guy gave up something like 11 sacks in 16 games as a starter at LT in Denver!

Now we bring in some 4th round pick who is a 3rd string tackle out of Seattle? On top of that he is as fat if not fatter than Mike Williams!

I think we are in DEEP trouble this year. This will be TD's last year, count on it.

Here's some insider secrets... it is always Bledsoe's fault... no matter how bad our line is.

[buffalo66]

It doesnt matter who becomes the LT

JP said he was gonna put "some pep in his step"

[SoCal-Surf]

Tom Donahoe has been rebuilding the O-Line for four years now as we enter
the fifth year. He tore the roster apart and put it back together without
an O-Line and now is going to stick a rookie QB back there.

Brilliant.

[BuffaloRanger]

You're right, it wasn't the worst post I've ever read, this one is. You just stated that, and I quote "I just want him to recognize that the line sucks and improve it by signing just ONE FA"

Didn't he sign Villarial? That's ONE GOOD FA. This year he's already signed Gandy, talked to Pork Chop and Demulling, don't forget Shelton. What more do you want TD to do? He can't beg guys to sign with the Bills. He's obviously, thankfully, not going to try to over pay for guys either. He's not working with an endless pit of money, contrary to what many think.

Now, before you tell me to get my head out of the sand, maybe you should think about getting yours back where the sun shines.

As for calling me an idiot, I'll still sleep at night, thanks though.

:negrep:

He signed an FA Villarial to replace one that was lost. That's a wash. What other FA Olineman did he bring in? None.

Oh wait, he signed undrafted FA Lawrence Smith -and the guy started against JAX! That's how bad the line was, that a guy off the street, which no other team wanted, could come in and start. And our line is worse right now.


That is neglect.

Foward Lateral doesn't think that that the Oline is a big problem. 80% of Bills fans answering the poll on the front page consider it the biggest need.

[Mudflap1]

Did TD make an offer to Womack or Demulling?

If he signs both of them (to a good deal) and drafts a center on Day 1 I will applaud TD louder than anyone. Did TD make an offer to Womack or Demulling?

I agree.

Jon