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View Full Version : Risk/Reward factor for top 10 picks



Throne Logic
03-13-2005, 10:15 AM
The more I think about it, I'm not sure it's worth the risk / CAP hit to ever have a pick in the top 10. Possible exception might be a QB as they are going to command big contracts anyway. However, their risk factor is very high. How many QBs picked in the top 10 actually pan out?

Risk/reward factor seems to dictate shooting for the mid to late first round with a trade-down if you have a top 10 pick. Besides, most of the great teams seem to be built with guys picked after the first round.

This way you don't have to deal with CAP killer contracts like what Mike Williams commanded. Plus, you'll wind up with more players instead of just one. With the Draft being the crap shot it is, why not hedge your bets with multiple picks?

juice
03-13-2005, 10:25 AM
Careful consideration should be taken before drafting a 360 lb OT with the 4th overall pick.. MW had weight issues long before leaving college, it was just last off-season that the problem grew outta control.

Stick to the skilled positions inside the top 10 picks.

Dozerdog
03-13-2005, 10:32 AM
The more I think about it, I'm not sure it's worth the risk / CAP hit to ever have a pick in the top 10. Possible exception might be a QB as they are going to command big contracts anyway. However, their risk factor is very high. How many QBs picked in the top 10 actually pan out?

Risk/reward factor seems to dictate shooting for the mid to late first round with a trade-down if you have a top 10 pick. Besides, most of the great teams seem to be built with guys picked after the first round.

This way you don't have to deal with CAP killer contracts like what Mike Williams commanded. Plus, you'll wind up with more players instead of just one. With the Draft being the crap shot it is, why not hedge your bets with multiple picks?


It really depends on the players available / holes needed to fill /market for the picks. Knowing what we know now on how TD wheels and deals- I'll bet you that there were no takers for the #4 overall pick in 2002.

Many years teams will get screwed in the top 10- and because of the history of whom signed for what and where they will be drafted- guys like Alex Smith this season will be grossly overpaid.

Dozerdog
03-13-2005, 10:33 AM
Careful consideration should be taken before drafting a 360 lb OT with the 4th overall pick.. MW had weight issues long before leaving college, it was just last off-season that the problem grew outta control.

Stick to the skilled positions inside the top 10 picks.


Who would you have selected at #4 in 2002, Juice?

Throne Logic
03-13-2005, 10:50 AM
Careful consideration should be taken before drafting a 360 lb OT with the 4th overall pick.. MW had weight issues long before leaving college, it was just last off-season that the problem grew outta control.

Stick to the skilled positions inside the top 10 picks.

I see your point. But you could likely trade your top 10 pick for a lower 1st round and a 2nd round pick (if not more). That could be 2 high-profile skill position players who will play for not too much more of a combined CAP hit than that single top 10 pick.

In fact, as I continue to think about it, I'm inclined to say I might always trade 1st round picks in exchange for known-commodity NFL veterans who are young enough to play through a 4-5 year contract. Here's my thinking:

1) NFL teams covet 1st round picks (even with the risk factor involved).
This would make the potential trade that much more likely.
2) A solid vet (not necessarily the superstars) won't likely be making more
money than a 1st round pick (I'm not entirely sure on this one. Clump or
Eb?).
3) Over the coarse of a 4-5 year deal, that veteran is going to give you 4-5
years of solid service. The draft pick is most likely going to ease slowly
into things, resulting in his productivity being something less than the 4-5
years your paying him for. Plus, this assumes that your draft pick doesn't
turn out to be a bust. (injury could effect either, so I left it out)
4) Taking the last point a bit further, a veteran has a much better chance to
be that instantaneous fix for the holes on your team.

I guess the bulk of my argument centers around the same concept as I started this thread with. The risk/reward factor. A known commodity vs. an unknown "potential".

As a mental exercise:

Part I: Evans turned out to be productive half way through his rookie campaign. That's above average on the scale and it assumes that he'll continue to produce into the future (which I feel is likely). Now, which veteran receivers might we have traded that #13 pick to obtain? I'm thinking some team would have bit.

Part II: Eric Flowers. . .

Part III: Mike Williams is improving. Does anyone think that we might have traded that #4 overall pick for a good RT who would have already given us a couple good years without the growing pains or the screwed up contract?

Throne Logic
03-13-2005, 10:52 AM
It really depends on the players available / holes needed to fill /market for the picks. Knowing what we know now on how TD wheels and deals- I'll bet you that there were no takers for the #4 overall pick in 2002.

You might be right about that. But I do find it hard to believe. Maybe TD was asking too much? I'd bet someone would have given up a solid RT straight up for that #4.

Throne Logic
03-13-2005, 10:53 AM
You might be right about that. But I do find it hard to believe. Maybe TD was asking too much? I'd bet someone would have given up a solid RT straight up for that #4.

Please note: I stated "solid" not "superstar".

juice
03-13-2005, 10:57 AM
Who would you have selected at #4 in 2002, Juice?Why would you pick #4 at all Dozer.. didn't this team go like 3-13 the year before?

Wouldn't it make more sense to trade down for more picks since it was obvious that we needed more than just a RT - and now look 3 yrs later and we've yet to make the playoffs.

What do you think Dozer?

Dicknoze69
03-13-2005, 11:01 AM
Why would you pick #4 at all Dozer.. didn't this team go like 3-13 the year before?

Wouldn't it make more sense to trade down for more picks since it was obvious that we needed more than just a RT - and now look 3 yrs later and we've yet to make the playoffs.

What do you think Dozer?

It's much easier said than done. It's very possible that TD tried to trade down and found no willing partners.

Other teams also know the risk/reward potential of very high picks and don't like giving out massive contracts to unproven players.

You can't just give the pick away either, you need to receive value in return for an asset.

juice
03-13-2005, 11:06 AM
It's much easier said than done. It's very possible that TD tried to trade down and found no willing partners.

Other teams also know the risk/reward potential of very high picks and don't like giving out massive contracts to unproven players.

You can't just give the pick away either, you need to receive value in return for an asset.There are alot of options besides taking a RT with the #4 overall pick.. You can trade down or you can draft a player then trade that player to another team for another player and picks or you can trade a certain pick for another teams total picks in the Draft that year like the R. Williams deal.

Plenty of scenarios besides picking a non-skilled position with a #4 overall pick..
especially when the team is in as much need as we were that year prior.

Sportsuser101
03-13-2005, 11:09 AM
I don't know about you but I thought it was the right move to take an o-lineman I just wanted the other o-lineman. I wanted McKinnie. It is much easier to get a RT then it is a LT that was my reasoning.. that and McKinnie didn't give up a sack.

Throne Logic
03-13-2005, 11:12 AM
You can't just give the pick away either, you need to receive value in return for an asset.

Part of my argument is that the perceived value of this pick is much higher than the actual value. I would not demand the equivilent of that "perceived value", thus making the bait all the more sweeter. I'm suggesting that I'd take advantage of the situation and trade the pick to someone with that false perception and get something I can count on in return.

Throne Logic
03-13-2005, 11:15 AM
I don't know about you but I thought it was the right move to take an o-lineman I just wanted the other o-lineman. I wanted McKinnie. It is much easier to get a RT then it is a LT that was my reasoning.. that and McKinnie didn't give up a sack.

A bit off-topic for the tread, but if I remember correctly, McKinnie had some issues to start his career and most folks were happy we picked Williams over McKinnie at the time.

Besides, Williams isn't a bust. I just think we could have gotten a solid veteran in exchange for that pick. Even exchange. I don't think TD was willing to do that.

Dozerdog
03-13-2005, 11:16 AM
Why would you pick #4 at all Dozer.. didn't this team go like 3-13 the year before?

Wouldn't it make more sense to trade down for more picks since it was obvious that we needed more than just a RT - and now look 3 yrs later and we've yet to make the playoffs.

What do you think Dozer?
Would i try to trade down? Sure- if the deal was right. But that's a lot of "Ifs" and "Buts"


You stated Careful consideration should be taken before drafting a 360 lb OT with the 4th overall pick.. ................Stick to the skilled positions inside the top 10 picks.

What skilled guy did you want? Or is this all 20/20 hindsight?

Sportsuser101
03-13-2005, 11:17 AM
A bit off-topic for the tread, but if I remember correctly, McKinnie had some issues to start his career and most folks were happy we picked Williams over McKinnie at the time.

Besides, Williams isn't a bust. I just think we could have gotten a solid veteran in exchange for that pick. Even exchange. I don't think TD was willing to do that.
No I'm not saying he is a bust. In fact he impressed me last year. I just thought at the time that getting a LT was better then getting a RT especially what McKinnie brought to the table.

Dozerdog
03-13-2005, 11:18 AM
No I'm not saying he is a bust. In fact he impressed me last year. I just thought at the time that getting a LT was better then getting a RT especially what McKinnie brought to the table.
I think Mckinnie scared some teams off with his mouth/ contract demands

Typ0
03-13-2005, 11:23 AM
once carolina took peppers I thought we should have traded out of that pick as well...but who knows what was available for trade? We just have to trust TD took the right guy and MW will be a productive Bill in the next few seasons. I don't think taking an OL in the top five is a good idea though. Like this thread indicates there is a great risk drafting at those positions...for the risk I certainly want a good chance at grabbing a playmaker who can make a difference in games -- not something you get from OL.

juice
03-13-2005, 11:48 AM
Would i try to trade down? Sure- if the deal was right. But that's a lot of "Ifs" and "Buts"


You stated Careful consideration should be taken before drafting a 360 lb OT with the 4th overall pick.. ................Stick to the skilled positions inside the top 10 picks.

What skilled guy did you want? Or is this all 20/20 hindsight?Sure this is hindsight but looking at this teams talent level the season before that draft makes it obvious that this team needed quite a bit more than just a RT in the early rounds.

By no stretch did anyone think that the addition of Williams that year would propel this team into the playoffs - why not maximize the early round picks?

Once Bledsoe was brought in, for those who thought he would be that type of factor, this team had no more than a chance at a .500 season.

I'm thinking that IF you use a top 10 pick pick, which I wouldn't have with the state of that unit that year, then it is a pick that should be used on a skilled position - If there were no skilled players available then try to get an extra pick or two to raise the overall team talent level.

We're still dealing with MW as a project pick 3 years later.

Dozerdog
03-13-2005, 11:53 AM
So who would you preferred we selected with that pick again?

juice
03-13-2005, 11:55 AM
So who would you preferred we selected with that pick again?I wouldn't have selected with the 4th pick in that years draft.

Novacane
03-13-2005, 12:11 PM
:rofl: Did you really expect him to give a strait answere dozer?

Typ0
03-13-2005, 12:12 PM
:rofl: Did you really expect him to give a strait answere dozer?


how is saying he would have traded the pick not a straight answer?

Novacane
03-13-2005, 12:13 PM
The only o-linemen ever worthy of a top 5 pick was Ruben Brown :up:

Novacane
03-13-2005, 12:15 PM
how is saying he would have traded the pick not a straight answer?


he's trying to say he would have traded down and others have already said easier said than done.

Novacane
03-13-2005, 12:16 PM
or maybe Juice woulda just pulled a minnisota and let his time run out without drafting :crazy:

Typ0
03-13-2005, 12:24 PM
he's trying to say he would have traded down and others have already said easier said than done.

it's still a straight answer. We took MW because that's the guy we wanted. TD and company believed at the time he was going to come in here and make the OLine well above average. It hasn't happened. Last season was the first he really started to show up as the player we thought he would be right out of college. But none of that answers the question of taking a non play making position at that high level in the draft and guaranteeing such a contract.

Novacane
03-13-2005, 12:43 PM
I remember TD saying afterwards that no team called while the Bills were on the clock. You can't trade down if no one is interested.

The_Philster
03-13-2005, 12:58 PM
A bit off-topic for the tread, but if I remember correctly, McKinnie had some issues to start his career and most folks were happy we picked Williams over McKinnie at the time.

Besides, Williams isn't a bust. I just think we could have gotten a solid veteran in exchange for that pick. Even exchange. I don't think TD was willing to do that.


I think Mckinnie scared some teams off with his mouth/ contract demandsI know he scared off the Bills by basically coming out and saying he didn't want to play here

juice
03-13-2005, 01:07 PM
:rofl: Did you really expect him to give a strait answere dozer?I didn't really expect YOU to add anything constructive to the discussion.. what would you have done FTG?:clown:

G. Host
03-13-2005, 08:48 PM
In general I do not think top 10 picks are worth what they command in contracts and are 'punishment' for teams which do badly. There are exceptions but that does not mean the team could not have done as well with lower picks and more money to spend elsewhere.

There are two ways I can see to get rid of a pick which no one seems to want to trade for - use it on an restricted player (i.e. a player who has been tagged or a EFA or RFA - the traded team does not get a choice saying it does not want such a high pick - or do a Viking manuever and fail to pick at your time and have other teams pass by you but this is heavily discouraged by the league even though it is legal and the agent community tries to treat this as a player has been 'cheated'.

Personally I wish the draft was longer maybe over a week (day 1 top 10, day 2 rest of round 1, day 3 round 2, day 4 round 3-4, day 5 round 5-7) for this would allow more discussions with players and agents. If a agent said "we'll talk about it later' then pass on the pick costing the player money and pick another player who can satisfy a need as well. Later picks rarely command such delays hence less time is needed. League will not do it for they like the big spotlight of all of those picks done 'quickly'.

Dozerdog
03-13-2005, 08:54 PM
Basically, he's bailing out- having the "Mythical trade" save him.



Some magical team would come in and "bailed out" the Bills from drafting Mike Williams- or having to come up with an alternate pick. OK- let's play in fantasy land. What team is it, and what did you get for the 4th overall? Why was the pick traded? What player did this mythical team covet?


Did we get Bret Favre in the deal?

juice
03-13-2005, 09:05 PM
The Draft Guru TD couldn't find some team in the entire Draft that wanted to move up into the top 5.. Maybe he didn't find out until draft day that he was sitting on the #4 pick.

TD said he didn't recieve any calls during the draft from any teams trying to move up.. Did we go to the SB that year prior and he didn't have time to drum up some interest in the pick or what.

TD got the player he wanted and he just hasn't been the impact player that the great talent evaluator thought he would be.

The Bills were On The Clock since Nov. of the prior season.

Throne Logic
03-13-2005, 09:17 PM
There are two ways I can see to get rid of a pick which no one seems to want to trade for - use it on an restricted player (i.e. a player who has been tagged or a EFA or RFA - the traded team does not get a choice saying it does not want such a high pick - or do a Viking manuever and fail to pick at your time and have other teams pass by you but this is heavily discouraged by the league even though it is legal and the agent community tries to treat this as a player has been 'cheated'.

I'd not thought of the restricted player idea. But that, of course, is very limited to whomever is tagged as restricted. I'd not want to do this for a Franchised player - that would be too expensive.

Interesting idea on expanding the timeframe of the draft. It would never work in practice - too many folks would go insane in the process . . . A bit too much like Chinese water torture.

Crisis
03-13-2005, 09:30 PM
Can we rewind this a bit?

Remember, during that draft TD wanted Harrington. Everyone through Harrington would fall past us (I didn't want him, either) but he went at #3. TD was going to pick Harrington, instead the next day we trade for Bledsoe.

The only other options at that pic that anyone mentioned were- Roy Williams (and he'd of been a reach at #4), the 4 DTs that were coming out (Simms, Henderson, Haynesworth, Bryant) and McKinnie/Big Mike. McKinnie said he didn't wanna be a Bill. Look at this draft.

1 Houston Carr, David QB 6-3 223 Fresno State
2 2 Carolina Peppers, Julius DE 6-6 283 North Carolina
3 3 Detroit Harrington, Joey QB 6-4 215 Oregon
4 4 Buffalo Williams, Mike OT 6-6 375 Texas
5 5 San Diego Jammer, Quentin CB 6-0 204 Texas
6 6 Kansas City (from Dallas) Sims, Ryan DT 6-4 311 North Carolina
7 7 Minnesota McKinnie, Bryant OT 6-8 343 Miami (Fla.)
8 8 Dallas (from Kansas City) Williams, Roy SS 6-0 219 Oklahoma
9 9 Jacksonville Henderson, John DT 6-7 306 Tennessee
10 10 Cincinnati Jones, Levi OT 6-5 304 Arizona State
11 11 Indianapolis Freeney, Dwight DE 6-1 266 Syracuse
12 12 Arizona Bryant, Wendell DT 6-4 308 Wisconsin
13 13 New Orleans Stallworth, Donte' WR 6-0 197 Tennessee
14 14 N.Y. Giants (from Tennessee) Shockey, Jeremy TE 6-5 255 Miami (Fla.)
15 15 Tennessee (from N.Y. Giants) Haynesworth, Albert DT 6-6 320 Tennessee

Jammer wasn't a need at the time, DT was a need, but we signed Adams later, Levi Jones wasn't even supposed to be picked until the end of the 1st. Freeney would've been a reach.

Juice- it takes TWO teams to trade down. A team has to like a player to trade up for them. I don't see anyone in the top 15 who fell in love with anyone in that draft that wouldn't of been available at their pick.

Throne Logic
03-13-2005, 09:36 PM
I'd have looked to make the trade back in January when teams were still unsettled on whom they were after.

Dozerdog
03-13-2005, 09:47 PM
I'd have looked to make the trade back in January when teams were still unsettled on whom they were after.
In the entire history of the draft- has anyone traded up that early, especially when they weren't getting the #1 pick?





Juice-

The Draft Guru TD couldn't find some team in the entire Draft that wanted to move up into the top 5.. Maybe he didn't find out until draft day that he was sitting on the #4 pick.

TD said he didn't recieve any calls during the draft from any teams trying to move up.. Did we go to the SB that year prior and he didn't have time to drum up some interest in the pick or what.

TD got the player he wanted and he just hasn't been the impact player that the great talent evaluator thought he would be.

The Bills were On The Clock since Nov. of the prior season.
What idiot GM gives up a boatload of picks to move up in a draft unless he has a specific player in mind? How stupid does that GM have to be to trade up to the #4 pick , then pray to god that the three teams ahead of him "play along" and not draft whatever player they targeted? Nobody trades up like that until the slot they want to trade to is on the clock.

That logic makes absolutely ZERO sense.

There were no players on the board worth trading up for- Carr & Peppers were gone.... the two gems. Carr signed with the Texans BEFORE the draft, and it was clear that Carolina wanted Peppers. Did Carolina get calls to see if they were interested in trading? I'll bet they got inquiries. Did the Bills? :rofl:

Dozerdog
03-13-2005, 09:49 PM
So with no "mythical trade" to bail you out Juice, whom would you have selected with the 4th pick?

juice
03-13-2005, 10:39 PM
So with no "mythical trade" to bail you out Juice, whom would you have selected with the 4th pick?TD is the one looking for a bailout with the overweight headcase he picked 4th overall that's tying up all of the cap space - like I said I would have tried to work a deal out to try to get extra picks, but if I had to make a choice I would've gone defense first with a player like Ryan Sims who was part of that dominant UNC defense along with Peppers.

After a 3-13 season you have to go after a player that is going to make either the Offense or Defense alot better and a OT isn't going to all of a sudden make your team that much better - but I think that you win games by playing good defense. How is a RT going to make your Offensive unit better when you already have an effective run game, He cant pass block for a pocket passer like Bledsoe because he's too fat and slow.

I think selecting MW led to another bad decision to bring in Bledsoe when we didn't have the ofensive line support to protect the pocket passer and MW has been a huge liability against speed rushers from the outside.

Sportsuser101
03-13-2005, 11:03 PM
TD is the one looking for a bailout with the overweight headcase he picked 4th overall that's tying up all of the cap space - like I said I would have tried to work a deal out to try to get extra picks, but if I had to make a choice I would've gone defense first with a player like Ryan Sims who was part of that dominant UNC defense along with Peppers.

After a 3-13 season you have to go after a player that is going to make either the Offense or Defense alot better and a OT isn't going to all of a sudden make your team that much better - but I think that you win games by playing good defense. How is a RT going to make your Offensive unit better when you already have an effective run game, He cant pass block for a pocket passer like Bledsoe because he's too fat and slow.

I think selecting MW led to another bad decision to bring in Bledsoe when we didn't have the ofensive line support to protect the pocket passer and MW has been a huge liability against speed rushers from the outside.
Yeah trade down and get what? If no one wants to trade up what are you going to do? Just trade down and gain nothing? We would officially have no o-line if we drafted Sims.

Actually offensive lines do make teams better. Probably the most significant position besides a QB is a tackle.

If we somehow got Mike, McKinnie, Simmons, Bentley and Fonoti they wouldn't be enough protection for Bledsoe.

So with your decision of Ryan Sims we would have a backup DT instead of a starting RT. Smart move.

Dozerdog
03-13-2005, 11:19 PM
The funny thing- you would have to pay this backup DT pretty large money- very similar to what you are paying Mike Williams- because he would be slotted for 4th overall money.

juice
03-13-2005, 11:39 PM
Sims is a starter with KC and there would've been no reason to bring in a Sam Adams with this stud DT on the roster. Check the '03 stats.

TT A S Int
Adams--- 27--3--5--1


Simms--- 83--42-3--1

Sims would have been a capable force on the D-Line and could have been the player to take over for Pat Williams when he left while allowing the other youth on the D-Line to develope.

Throne Logic
03-14-2005, 12:14 AM
In the entire history of the draft- has anyone traded up that early, especially when they weren't getting the #1 pick?

That fits right in with my somewhat radical theory. Why not trade that early. Remember, I'm not looking for more draft picks at this point (that's Juice). I want a straight up trade for a solid veteran who's going to give me 4-5 consistent years rather than the monster contract commanding unproven rookie who may or may not give me any solid years before his contract becomes unmanagable under the CAP restrictions.

Sportsuser101
03-14-2005, 01:14 AM
Sims is a starter with KC and there would've been no reason to bring in a Sam Adams with this stud DT on the roster. Check the '03 stats.

TT A S Int
Adams--- 27--3--5--1


Simms--- 83--42-3--1

Sims would have been a capable force on the D-Line and could have been the player to take over for Pat Williams when he left while allowing the other youth on the D-Line to develope.
?

Sims 03 stats 39 tackles 3 sacks 1 INT
Adams 03 stats 33 tackles 5 sacks 1 INT

Also.. are we just going to ignore the #s from last year?

He is not a stud. He would be a backup for us. Edwards would have probably beat him out too.

BuffaloRanger
03-14-2005, 10:30 AM
That fits right in with my somewhat radical theory. Why not trade that early. Remember, I'm not looking for more draft picks at this point (that's Juice). I want a straight up trade for a solid veteran who's going to give me 4-5 consistent years rather than the monster contract commanding unproven rookie who may or may not give me any solid years before his contract becomes unmanagable under the CAP restrictions.


That's actually a good idea. I guess it depends on the quality of the draft. If a team could get a proven player, potential PBer by trading a #5 cap busting pick that would be tempting.

Ebenezer
03-14-2005, 11:14 AM
You might be right about that. But I do find it hard to believe. Maybe TD was asking too much? I'd bet someone would have given up a solid RT straight up for that #4.

I still say the plan was to take Harrington...


Why would you pick #4 at all Dozer.. didn't this team go like 3-13 the year before?

Wouldn't it make more sense to trade down for more picks since it was obvious that we needed more than just a RT - and now look 3 yrs later and we've yet to make the playoffs.

What do you think Dozer?

got to have a partner...I would have traded down too...but that doesn't mean the opportunity was there...in lieu of trading down, who would you have picked at #4?


I think Mckinnie scared some teams off with his mouth/ contract demands

that is exactly what happened...and there were rumors that he told Buffalo he didnt want to play here.

Ebenezer
03-14-2005, 11:22 AM
btw, to answer the original question...For all the signing bonus, other bonuses, escalators and I do not believe top 10 picks are worth it.

I wonder what Roethelisberger's contract was like? Betcha his escalators will make him one rich QB.

mysticsoto
03-14-2005, 12:01 PM
TD is the one looking for a bailout with the overweight headcase he picked 4th overall that's tying up all of the cap space - like I said I would have tried to work a deal out to try to get extra picks, but if I had to make a choice I would've gone defense first with a player like Ryan Sims who was part of that dominant UNC defense along with Peppers.

After a 3-13 season you have to go after a player that is going to make either the Offense or Defense alot better and a OT isn't going to all of a sudden make your team that much better - but I think that you win games by playing good defense. How is a RT going to make your Offensive unit better when you already have an effective run game, He cant pass block for a pocket passer like Bledsoe because he's too fat and slow.

I think selecting MW led to another bad decision to bring in Bledsoe when we didn't have the ofensive line support to protect the pocket passer and MW has been a huge liability against speed rushers from the outside.
If I remember, our O-line was in shambles back then and our weakest link in the chain (kind of like what we have at our LT position right now). TD brought in a person that he thought would make a difference at a position of need. Many people did applaud getting MW over Bryant McKinnie including myself. If things have turned out differently, how is one supposed to know that at the time? You think SD wanted to pick a Ryan Leaf? Sometimes people look like a good thing and turn out not to be. MW doesn't even fall in that category since he seems to be getting better (under McNally's tutelage) and may even one day move over to LT.

In the mean time, it is easy in hindsight to say, Oh, I would pick Ryan Sims or some other now producing player. You don't have hindsight at the moment and sometimes just need to take a risk. Sometimes they pay off (WM) and sometimes they don't. That's just part of football.

juice
03-14-2005, 01:21 PM
If I remember, our O-line was in shambles back then and our weakest link in the chain (kind of like what we have at our LT position right now). TD brought in a person that he thought would make a difference at a position of need. Many people did applaud getting MW over Bryant McKinnie including myself. If things have turned out differently, how is one supposed to know that at the time? You think SD wanted to pick a Ryan Leaf? Sometimes people look like a good thing and turn out not to be. MW doesn't even fall in that category since he seems to be getting better (under McNally's tutelage) and may even one day move over to LT.

In the mean time, it is easy in hindsight to say, Oh, I would pick Ryan Sims or some other now producing player. You don't have hindsight at the moment and sometimes just need to take a risk. Sometimes they pay off (WM) and sometimes they don't. That's just part of football.A major part of drafting players is weighing potential and need while assessing the risk factor of the individual at their position.. I would argue that MW, who was second to McKinnie talent-wise in that draft at the OT position, was not a good risk and not an effective Pass blocker which is what this team needed with it's failure to protect Rob Johnson the season before.

TD could have limited the risk of failure and maximixed the potential of success by choosing to go defense first and filling the need in the DL position since he wasn't shore if he would get his targeted choice at QB in the draft.

By drafting MW before he knew who would be the QB that season might have been a mistake because he needed an OT that could handle speed rushers from the outside to create a pocket for the eventual QB DB who was totally immobile.

Again in an ideal situation you might consider trading out of the 4 pick position but if that wasn't possible at the time of the draft then the risk of uncertainty could've been limited by filling another position of need at the time at DT.

Very few OTs the size of MW are effective at handling speed rushes from the outside in this League.. Resulting in one reason for the failure of Drew Bledsoe.

mysticsoto
03-14-2005, 02:16 PM
A major part of drafting players is weighing potential and need while assessing the risk factor of the individual at their position.. I would argue that MW, who was second to McKinnie talent-wise in that draft at the OT position, was not a good risk and not an effective Pass blocker which is what this team needed with it's failure to protect Rob Johnson the season before.

TD could have limited the risk of failure and maximixed the potential of success by choosing to go defense first and filling the need in the DL position since he wasn't shore if he would get his targeted choice at QB in the draft.

By drafting MW before he knew who would be the QB that season might have been a mistake because he needed an OT that could handle speed rushers from the outside to create a pocket for the eventual QB DB who was totally immobile.

Again in an ideal situation you might consider trading out of the 4 pick position but if that wasn't possible at the time of the draft then the risk of uncertainty could've been limited by filling another position of need at the time at DT.

Very few OTs the size of MW are effective at handling speed rushes from the outside in this League.. Resulting in one reason for the failure of Drew Bledsoe.
Bledsoe would look bad if Orlando Pace was blocking for him...or Superman, or the Hulk! :D

Heh! Heh! That would be interesting...to have a video game of comic book characters playing football. On the line:

Superman at LT
Martian Manhunter at LG
The Hulk (intelligent incarnation) at Center
Drax the Destroyer at RG
Colossus at RT

...Blocking for quarterback, Hawkeye...
...Running back - the Flash

vs...villains

Darkseid at DE
Bizarro at DT
Thanos at DT
Dr. Doom at DE

This would be awesome...