View Full Version : I bet TD is waiting
Mr. Miyagi
03-13-2005, 11:10 AM
Seeing that TD hasn't really signed anyone so far in FA, and has let some FAs leave from the team, I don't think he's just procrasinating. I bet he's got something up his sleeves, that he definitely knows something we don't know. Maybe a stud DE as June 1st casualty, maybe a big draft day trade. Whatever it may be, I'm sure he's just saving up our cap room to sign this guy / these guys.
So who are the potential June 1st cuts that we still haven't thought about?
Sportsuser101
03-13-2005, 11:12 AM
I sure hope he knows something we don't otherwise we're screwed. :nervous:
Michael Strahan may be a possible cut but I'm not sure if I would want him at the price he would command. I like Kelsay. I actually think we're fine at starting DE. Some depth.. sure but I think starter wise I like Schobel and Kelsay.
I think if he saw someone that fit on the team and made us better for the money he would go for it...but he hasn't so here we are. I also think he's taking a long hard look at what he can do with this years cap $$ to keep Clements on the team.
I sure hope he knows something we don't otherwise we're screwed. :nervous:
Michael Strahan may be a possible cut but I'm not sure if I would want him at the price he would command. I like Kelsay. I actually think we're fine at starting DE. Some depth.. sure but I think starter wise I like Schobel and Kelsay.
we need a better pass rusher...it would make a huge difference IMO.
I dunno I think our team is set up just fine right now... minus a couple O-Linemen. We'll be fine.
Michael82
03-13-2005, 11:19 AM
I think if he saw someone that fit on the team and made us better for the money he would go for it...but he hasn't so here we are. I also think he's taking a long hard look at what he can do with this years cap $$ to keep Clements on the team.
That's the key. I guarantee that TD is trying to figure out how he'll be able to show him the money and get him locked up before the season begins.
Throne Logic
03-13-2005, 11:19 AM
we need a better pass rusher...it would make a huge difference IMO.
Who?
And from where?
Sportsuser101
03-13-2005, 11:21 AM
we need a better pass rusher...it would make a huge difference IMO.
I'm not a big fan of paying 2 guys a ton of money for the same position. ie 2 CBs, 2 DTs, 2 OLBs, 2 WRs, 2 DEs.. etc. I just think we were fine last year and it showed by having the 3rd most sacks in the league. I think we'll get more this year with Edwards stepping in and having better coverage in the secondary with Vincent for the whole year at FS and McGee maturing.
ScottLawrence
03-13-2005, 11:23 AM
I hope he has a plan.
Right now our O-Line is not in good shape.
LT-Teague
LG-Gandy
C-Tucker
RG-Villarrial
RT-Williams
Thats not a good or even average offensive line.
Maybe TD's plan IS to rebuild for a year with Losman.
Michael82
03-13-2005, 11:31 AM
One thing that I have learned with TD, always expect the unexpected. NEVER believe that TD is just sitting there. He ALWAYS has a plan.
Not to overstate the obvious, the Bills went 9-7 last year behind virtually the same offensive line last year. Yes Jennings is gone, but when Marcus Price filled in for him when he was injured there was very little if any difference in performance. Marcus Price, as many of you know, is basically a bargin bin career back-up lineman.
You guys act as though the line will now all of a sudden suffer from some catastrophic failure because of the lose of an average starting lineman who was easily replaced for 2-4 games with a career back-up lineman. Sure the offensive line is not the best but there will be improvement from the remaining 4/5ths of the line just based on more experience (Tucker's first year as a fulltime starter), continued development (think Mike Williams from the beginning of the year to the end - i.e., night and day), getting used to each other (it was Villareal's first year with the team) and continuity (having four guys that know each other and the system is always a plus). Add in a more mobile quarterback (think of the difference in offensive line performance between when Rob Johnson played (i.e.,, lots of sacks allowed) vs. when Flutie played (very few sacks).
Again, the Pats won a superbowl with a rookie second round pick at left tackle, so there is no reason why the Bills can't be average with the same.
I'm not a big fan of paying 2 guys a ton of money for the same position. ie 2 CBs, 2 DTs, 2 OLBs, 2 WRs, 2 DEs.. etc. I just think we were fine last year and it showed by having the 3rd most sacks in the league. I think we'll get more this year with Edwards stepping in and having better coverage in the secondary with Vincent for the whole year at FS and McGee maturing.
we were able to take advantage of opportunities last season for sure...but I would like to see someone who is consistenly more disruptive in the backfield on pass plays that we've had here the last few years. It's one thing to have guys who can take advantage of the oppositions plays breaking down and another who they are just plain afraid of breaking down their plays. I know it's a lot to ask and it probably isn't going to happen. But with Spikes running around in our backfield I just think another speed DE would be an awesome menace to put against opposing offenses...they would have to get the ball out much quicker as part of their game plan and our corners and LB would have more chances to get INTs.
Not to overstate the obvious, the Bills went 9-7 last year behind virtually the same offensive line last year. Yes Jennings is gone, but when Marcus Price filled in for him when he was injured there was very little if any difference in performance. Marcus Price, as many of you know, is basically a bargin bin career back-up lineman.
You guys act as though the line will now all of a sudden suffer from some catastrophic failure because of the lose of an average starting lineman who was easily replaced for 2-4 games with a career back-up lineman. Sure the offensive line is not the best but there will be improvement from the remaining 4/5ths of the line just based on more experience (Tucker's first year as a fulltime starter), continued development (think Mike Williams from the beginning of the year to the end - i.e., night and day), getting used to each other (it was Villareal's first year with the team) and continuity (having four guys that know each other and the system is always a plus). Add in a more mobile quarterback (think of the difference in offensive line performance between when Rob Johnson played (i.e.,, lots of sacks allowed) vs. when Flutie played (very few sacks).
Again, the Pats won a superbowl with a rookie second round pick at left tackle, so there is no reason why the Bills can't be average with the same.
:clap:
Some of you worry too much.
Who?
And from where?
This is one area we can find an immediate impact from the draft. The draft is deep in DL and a guy like this:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/tuck_justin
could be a real contibutor to improving our defensive output. Of course that depends on how our staff evaluates him and what not...I'll leave it up to them. it's not inconceivable a player like that could be available to us. Definately we could get him if we wanted...or even get another 2nd round pick making some trades.
Tatonka
03-13-2005, 11:50 AM
new england is able to do alot of things that other teams are not able to..
i dont suggest us going into the season with such questions at left tackle.. just like i dont suggest us moving eric moulds to a cb..
Tatonka
03-13-2005, 11:54 AM
This is one area we can find an immediate impact from the draft. The draft is deep in DL and a guy like this:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/tuck_justin
could be a real contibutor to improving our defensive output. Of course that depends on how our staff evaluates him and what not...I'll leave it up to them. it's not inconceivable a player like that could be available to us. Definately we could get him if we wanted...or even get another 2nd round pick making some trades.
i would be extremely surprised if he was around in the 2nd round when we pick..
but we have spent numerous 2nd round picks on DEs.. i think they like the guys they have honestly.. what is the point of taking another rookie DE with an early pick that will contribute a minimal amount anyway.. i mean how often to rookie DEs get you 10 plus sacks? not often.
kevinj22
03-13-2005, 11:58 AM
Why, why would we be screwed if we don't do anything. We lost "1" player on offense and "1" player on defense. Were we that bad last year that we need so many changes on our roster? We have an inexperienced QB who is bound to make mistakes, we have a great defense that will keep us in games, we have a great special teams that will keep us in games, and we have an excellent coaching staff. Sign a more reliable kicker add some depth on the O line and D line, a backup running back and we are in buisness. You don't have to revamp your team every year to win, check out the Skins they have done great doing it that way.
jamze132
03-13-2005, 12:02 PM
I sure hope he knows something we don't otherwise we're screwed. :nervous:
Michael Strahan may be a possible cut but I'm not sure if I would want him at the price he would command. I like Kelsay. I actually think we're fine at starting DE. Some depth.. sure but I think starter wise I like Schobel and Kelsay.
Why even bother to talk about our DE situation?
Why, why would we be screwed if we don't do anything. We lost "1" player on offense and "1" player on defense. Were we that bad last year that we need so many changes on our roster? We have an inexperienced QB who is bound to make mistakes, we have a great defense that will keep us in games, we have a great special teams that will keep us in games, and we have an excellent coaching staff. Sign a more reliable kicker add some depth on the O line and D line, a backup running back and we are in buisness. You don't have to revamp your team every year to win, check out the Skins they have done great doing it that way.
you have to make the team better to win more...but you don't have to revamp the team. No one is talking about revamping...we're talking about shoring up our weaknesses. We need to not only replace what we lost...but get a little more to get over the hump and get deeper into the playoffs instead of just saying we made it yee ha.
Tatonka
03-13-2005, 12:05 PM
the oline was a weak link last year.. it just got weaker at the most important position..
it has got to be addressed.. and not w/ a guy who has been a center for the last 3 years and was only a LT start for one year.. and gave up 11 sacks that year.. especially not with a young inexperienced qb back there that needs to have some confidence in the guys in front of him.
letting the offensive line go this offseason and allowing jp to get beat up could be a HUGE mistake because it could effect his entire developement.. it literally could be the difference between him being tim couch or brett farve.. may sound extreme.. but if he comes out and gets killed because we cant keep guys off of him.. all his confidence could go down the tubes.. fans will turn on him, ect..
the oline is the most important part of the team.. it has to be sured up.
things are not beyond repair.. but we are rapidly losing options.
the oline was a weak link last year.. it just got weaker at the most important position..
it has got to be addressed.. and not w/ a guy who has been a center for the last 3 years and was only a LT start for one year.. and gave up 11 sacks that year.. especially not with a young inexperienced qb back there that needs to have some confidence in the guys in front of him.
letting the offensive line go this offseason and allowing jp to get beat up could be a HUGE mistake because it could effect his entire developement.. it literally could be the difference between him being tim couch or brett farve.. may sound extreme.. but if he comes out and gets killed because we cant keep guys off of him.. all his confidence could go down the tubes.. fans will turn on him, ect..
the oline is the most important part of the team.. it has to be sured up.
things are not beyond repair.. but we are rapidly losing options.
so you are saying we are going to draft and OLinman just because that's what we need? Talk about a great way to shoot yourself in the foot in the draft. You spend all that money for talent evaluators...and then you turn around and limit yourself to one position when selecting in the draft. Bad idea.
I do wholeheartedly agree with you about the need to fix up the OLine...and I am a bit uncomfortable that this is the area TD seems to gloss over every season. However, I'm not giving up the ship as quickly as you are and am going to be a little more patient and see what happens. There are just too many opportunities left to fix this problem between now and opening day.
Crisis
03-13-2005, 12:10 PM
I'm confident with the OL. How can you say TD is ignoring it? He's brought in DeMulling and Pork Chop for visits, and signed some depth. We're still half a year from the season.
If we didn't have McNally, I'd be worrying my ass off, though.
ICE74129
03-13-2005, 12:12 PM
What part of 'We have no cap room' is not getting though here? We will need to cut, trade or restructure players to get cap room to sign anyone.
Tatonka
03-13-2005, 12:14 PM
i am not saying that we HAVE to take a guy in the second round.. but i dont want a 7th round dylan mcfarland brought in to fix the problem.
i am also not giving up the ship.. i am simply stating my concern..
but typO, what are all these options that you think are still out there for solving our line issues? you dont see them drying up fast?
i am not saying that we HAVE to take a guy in the second round.. but i dont want a 7th round dylan mcfarland brought in to fix the problem.
i am also not giving up the ship.. i am simply stating my concern..
but typO, what are all these options that you think are still out there for solving our line issues? you dont see them drying up fast?
I have seen some opportunities come and go...but that doesn't mean those are the only opportunities that are going to present themselves. We have the draft coming...and then the work leading into training camp and the process in camp itself. I know we dont' have a #1 pick but we are MUCH better positioned in this years draft that we ever have been with TD. We don't need the later picks to rebuild our team nearly as much so there is some wiggle room there to trade and move up if we want a player bad enough. We also have Henry who is certainly worthy of another proven player. One way or another we are going to get some more help at Oline TD has already shown he's shopping around...he just hasn't found the right fit yet.
Meathead
03-13-2005, 12:30 PM
... and there are always a handful of surprises that can be pounced on.
DynaPaul
03-13-2005, 12:39 PM
I think we're in pretty good shape. I'm sure that the O-Line will be upgraded a bit before the pre-season whether it's Shelton, Womack, or Demulling that we get. Plus I can see TD spending at least a pick on an OL. Pat Williams was a loss but we still have Adams with Edwards next to him. Jennings was not a loss contrary to some opinions. San Fran will see what a waste of cap room he is and will ask him to restructure or be cut after the upcoming season.
Tatonka
03-13-2005, 01:21 PM
IJennings was not a loss contrary to some opinions. San Fran will see what a waste of cap room he is and will ask him to restructure or be cut after the upcoming season.
losing our LT was not a big loss? ok... :nervous:
apparently LTs that are capable nfl players grow on trees.
Michael82
03-13-2005, 02:42 PM
What part of 'We have no cap room' is not getting though here? We will need to cut, trade or restructure players to get cap room to sign anyone.
:crazy: Apparently, you STILL don't understand the cap situation. How many times do Clump and Eb need to explain it?!?! :shakeno:
Mr. Miyagi
03-13-2005, 02:49 PM
Something about "fluid cap" Mikey? :huh:
Mr. Cynical
03-13-2005, 03:34 PM
Some people seem to forget that our offense only did well against sub-par teams. They were averaging about 12 pts a game for the first 5 games. It was only when we started playing losing teams that the offense "gelled" and got 20+ points.
So I disagree that the line is okay, especially when the most important position...LT...is now vacant. I had no love of JJ and think TD was smart in not paying him that money. But you can't ignore that position and there is NOBODY on the roster that can fill it appropriately. And since we have $9M locked up at RT (a position that normally costs half that) I don't know that we'll ever have a stud LT.
I'm not panicking....yet....but the fact is the oline is barely adequate. We won't go 9-7 or better next year IMO given our schedule, i.e., we won't have that cushy 6 game stretch against losing teams like we did in '04.
BuffaloRanger
03-13-2005, 03:50 PM
The last few years stud players have not been released June 1st. June 1st cuts have become all hype. This year, maybe Turley and Faine will be released. They may have something left.
While it's true the Bills lost only 2 starters but the jets have improved. The Pats are still the team to beat even with their player/coach changes. The schedule will be harder. And has been pointed out, we had our best games against the weakest teams.
The Bills need to improve. Last year a undrafted FA started the season at LG. Does anyone else find that pathetic. That's not the sign of a good O line.
And I've said it here before.
THERE IS NO WAY THAT CLEMENTS "THE PLAYMAKER" IS NOT GOING TO TEST THE FA MARKET. His ego is to big not to see what he's worth. Is TD really going to pay him Top 3 CB money? Doesn't that go against "the Patriots" system that alot of fools think the Bills are trying to copy.
The Bills have zero chance of re-signing him.
Some people seem to forget that our offense only did well against sub-par teams. They were averaging about 12 pts a game for the first 5 games. It was only when we started playing losing teams that the offense "gelled" and got 20+ points.
So I disagree that the line is okay, especially when the most important position...LT...is now vacant. I had no love of JJ and think TD was smart in not paying him that money. But you can't ignore that position and there is NOBODY on the roster that can fill it appropriately. And since we have $9M locked up at RT (a position that normally costs half that) I don't know that we'll ever have a stud LT.
I'm not panicking....yet....but the fact is the oline is barely adequate. We won't go 9-7 or better next year IMO given our schedule, i.e., we won't have that cushy 6 game stretch against losing teams like we did in '04.
Except for a couple of stalwarts (i.e., NE, Indy, Phil.), predicting which teams will be strong from one year to the next is not an exact science. I am sure when our schedule came out prior to the 2004 season people were not very excited about playing the Rams (coming off a 12-4 season), Seahawks (coming off a 10-6), and Miami (10-6) back-to-back-to-back. Pittsburgh on the other hand was coming off a 6-10 season and I doubt there were many that predicted they would have the season they did in 2004.
It will be interesting to see if teams that took a quantum leap forward in the standings in 2004 will be able to maintain their lofty ranking. Pittsburgh, San Diego, and Atlanta all had excellent seasons despite losing records in 2003. Who thought San Diego would go 12-4? Who thought Kansas City would go from 13-3 to 7-9? Tennessee from 12-4 to 5-11?
Throne Logic
03-13-2005, 04:02 PM
we were able to take advantage of opportunities last season for sure...but I would like to see someone who is consistenly more disruptive in the backfield on pass plays that we've had here the last few years. It's one thing to have guys who can take advantage of the oppositions plays breaking down and another who they are just plain afraid of breaking down their plays. I know it's a lot to ask and it probably isn't going to happen. But with Spikes running around in our backfield I just think another speed DE would be an awesome menace to put against opposing offenses...they would have to get the ball out much quicker as part of their game plan and our corners and LB would have more chances to get INTs.
Again, it's a wonderful idea. But who? There's no one available at the moment. Nor is there likely to be anyone available that's worth signing.
gobuffalo2007
03-13-2005, 04:07 PM
whats wrong with u people we have 6.5-8 million dollars of cap space left! thats more than enough to make some big moves!
Throne Logic
03-13-2005, 04:08 PM
losing our LT was not a big loss? ok... :nervous:
apparently LTs that are capable nfl players grow on trees.
I'm fairly certain that you would agree that Jennings was not worth the kind of money San Fran gave to him.
I believe that Jennings was somewhat overrated. Like EDS stated earlier, Price stood in for Jennings for a few games without any noticable decline.
Throne Logic
03-13-2005, 04:14 PM
And since we have $9M locked up at RT (a position that normally costs half that) I don't know that we'll ever have a stud LT.
But we don't have $9M locked up at RT. That's the point that some folks are missing (ICE, in particular). A large chunck of that money can be freed up with a restructure of Mike's contract. I'm sure TD has it all lined up. He won't pull the trigger on that restructure unless he needs the money. So, take a deep breath and relax a bit on this issue. If an LT that TD wants is available and TD can sign him for a price he feels is worth the player's ability, then he will arrange for the extra CAP space. But he'll only make the room if and when that happens. It would be foolish to do so.
Throne Logic
03-13-2005, 04:17 PM
What part of 'We have no cap room' is not getting though here? We will need to cut, trade or restructure players to get cap room to sign anyone.
You're just trying to annoy people at this point, aren't you.
We've illustrated how there are plenty of options to make CAP room available if TD wants it. Either you keep on ignoring the facts or you're just making a concerted effort to be a pest.
Charlieguide
03-13-2005, 10:02 PM
While I think it's true JJ was 'overrated,' I think most OL is paid more than they deserve. There just aren't enough to go around, right now, and the short-supply is causing prices to rise dramatically.
This may go on for a few years, until a good crop come out of college, offensive strategies change (c.f. Mike Shanahan's O-line strategies in Denver), or the NFL contracts.
On Donahoe: I'll admit he's surprised me at least once every year since he's been in Buffalo. The problem: they're not always good surprises.
Sportsuser101
03-13-2005, 10:11 PM
I'm fairly certain that you would agree that Jennings was not worth the kind of money San Fran gave to him.
I believe that Jennings was somewhat overrated. Like EDS stated earlier, Price stood in for Jennings for a few games without any noticable decline.
I agree its a loss but I think he's clearly replaceble.
BuffaloRanger
03-14-2005, 08:25 AM
I think it's funny that Price stood in for Jennings and did a good job.
So than why didn't TD didn't make Price an offer.
Michael82
03-14-2005, 08:26 AM
I think it's funny that Price stood in for Jennings and did a good job.
So than why didn't TD didn't make Price an offer.
I think we could always see Marcus Price come back and be the starting LT if TD doesn't get the guy he really wants... LJ Shelton
BuffaloRanger
03-14-2005, 08:31 AM
So there is a potential LT out there that's so good he's garnered no offers from other teams?
But he could be our starting LT? How pathetic is the Bills Oline?
mybills
03-14-2005, 08:52 AM
When we needed to fix our D, TD drafted a running back. Everyone scratched their heads. But look how that turned out. I'm going to have to trust him to get us what we need. And I wish everyone would stop slobbering all over the Pats. Their dyasty can easily fold this year..noone can predict what will happen. :shakeno:
mysticsoto
03-14-2005, 09:41 AM
This is one area we can find an immediate impact from the draft. The draft is deep in DL and a guy like this:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/tuck_justin
could be a real contibutor to improving our defensive output. Of course that depends on how our staff evaluates him and what not...I'll leave it up to them. it's not inconceivable a player like that could be available to us. Definately we could get him if we wanted...or even get another 2nd round pick making some trades.
I think I rather concentrate with O-linemen with the 1st 2 picks. Preferably, a Center and an OT. Then you can start looking at what is available vs what you need. We'll probably need a CB and a DT. A TE if we don't sign a FA though that should be low on the list.
Here's a DT that I think will be a gem in the later rounds, Marcus Jasmin - could be Sam's future replacement once he gets some experience and learns the ropes from him:
http://www.nflfans.com/draft/2005/showplayer.php?key=Marcus%20Jasmin
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