'Roids in the NFL(link)

[juice]

We've avoided the subject in the NFL thus far with all that MLB has been going through, but it's only a matter of time until some roid burnout decides to write a "Tell-All" book and we have to deal with the subject.

MLB has been going through hell during Spring Training but I think everyone knows that that "Roids" are probably much more of a problem in the NFL that it is in MLB - When I was in HS playing Football more than 15 years ago there were a few of my teammates experimenting with the Juice back then so you can only imagine how much of a problem it is in the League today.

In a sport in which Strength, Speed and stamina are the major assets to the players we've all dreaded the day that this Steroid controversy came out into the open.. It looks as if the Panthers are the first in the League to be forced to deal with the issue.

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/football/nfl/03/13/bc.fbn.steroids.panthers.ap/index.html (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/football/nfl/03/13/bc.fbn.steroids.panthers.ap/index.html)

Do you think there are any Bills that might be getting Juiced?

[Jersey1031]

When I was in HS playing Football more than 15 years ago there were a few of my teammates experimenting with the Juice back then so you can only imagine how much of a problem it is in the League today.



soo true, i see it first hand since i am a senior in hs. and it just bothers me that these guys can cheat and enhance their performance while me staying and otehrs alike get beat by these "cheaters."

[Jersey1031]

staying clean***

[Gunzlingr]

I think lindell is on the roid

[ICE74129]

If anyone here doesn't think about 90+% of NFL players (including most Bills) Aren't on the juice...God do I have some property to sell you! :-)

[Tatonka]

if i had to pick a bill, i would have to say spikes.. based purely on appearance.

but i dont think he is.. so i would say no bills.

[Konyeezie]

There are a lot of Bills on roids and a lot of players around the league on them.


I also see it in HS, I hate those cheaters. I work twice as hard and get half the results, it sucks.

Anyone hear the ridiculous tuff Arnold has said and how he veto'd the bill to test student athletes?

[juice]

There are a lot of Bills on roids and a lot of players around the league on them.


I also see it in HS, I hate those cheaters. I work twice as hard and get half the results, it sucks.

Anyone hear the ridiculous tuff Arnold has said and how he veto'd the bill to test student athletes?
Body Builders are all on Roids and Arnold would be basically be leaving that Exibition sport out on a limb if he came out against the use of Steroids.. He's admitted to using Juice when he was competing.

Bodybuilding can be compared to Pro wrestling as more of an exibition rather than a sport and both sports rely alot on the use of Juice.

How can any Bodybuilder remain competitive without the use of 'Roids when success depends primarily on getting pumped up with swollen muscles, the same as the WWF wrestlers.

I guess Arnold doesn't care as much about the kids as he does the Sport.

[Bill Brasky]

I'm pretty sure Moorman is juicing.

[colin]

many many bills and nfl players use steriods or other banned performance aides. they might cycle off or mask their use, but they use them.

i think there should just be an open policy for steriods in the nfl, let them use them and don't pretend that they don't.

playing football isn't "good for you" in the first place, don't pretend it is a health issue with the steriods (not saying anyone did, but that is a common cry).

steriods = better football and i work hard enough every day to want to see the best possible NFL action on sundays.

[helmetguy]

A couple of things stand out here. first of all, the article only states that the Panthers were subpoenead, not the players. In the investigators simply subpoenaed the Panthers to divulge the home addresses of the players in question. Legal hairsplitting, maybe, but it sounds like the case mentioned in the article is still in the preliminary stages.

Second, unlike MLB, the NFL has had steroids included in their Substance Abuse Policy for several years owing, in large measure, to the Lyle Alzado saga. Until Mark McGuire admitted that he was using androstinedione, baseball was content to turn a blind eye and deaf ear to ANY allegations of steroid use. Even as details in the BALCO case began tricklin out, Bud Selig and Donald Fehr sidestepped the issue at every turn. Revellations by Jose Canseco notwithstanding, Selig and Fehr still resisted addressing the issue, until Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) and others threatened to revisit MLB's Anti-Trust Law exemption. Baseball had been content to let the issue slide, as homeruns had been flying out of band box ball parks in record numbers in recent years. Baseball NEEDED someting like the Maris/Aaron home run chase to bring back disenchanted fans they had lost when they cancelled the 1994 World Series.

It is possible that the NFL may revisit its testing policy, in light of the case against David Boston and more recent allegations involving Bill Romanoswski. Under current policy, the NFL does not suspend a player until his THIRD violation of the policy. Names do not become public until the second violation. Depending on the outcome of the Congressional hearings, scheduled to begin Thursday, the NFL and NFLPA may be forced to incorporate a stricter steroid policy in the CBA before they extend or renegotiate it.

Last, there is the issue of High School/College athletes using steroids. Testing is expensive, and parents (of all people) still resist the notion of drug testing for student athletes, citing privacy/rights issues. However, it must remembered that interscholastic sports are a priveledge, not a divine right. Even IF one would call it a "right," no "right" comes with out a responsibility.

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

An overly simplistic way to identify steroid users is to look at injury history, most specifically type of injury. Those players who are routinely sidelined with tendon/ligament/muscle injuries would be the first players I would look at closely.
Like I said...this is overly simplistic, but over the course of history, has proven to be surprisingly accurate.

One Bill who "fits the bill" (no pun intended) is, sadly, Eric Moulds.
He is built like a mack truck and also has a history of the injuries so typical among juicers.

[Michael82]

An overly simplistic way to identify steroid users is to look at injury history, most specifically type of injury. Those players who are routinely sidelined with tendon/ligament/muscle injuries would be the first players I would look at closely.
Like I said...this is overly simplistic, but over the course of history, has proven to be surprisingly accurate.

One Bill who "fits the bill" (no pun intended) is, sadly, Eric Moulds.
He is built like a mack truck and also has a history of the injuries so typical among juicers.
Everytime i see him in person at Training Camp, i was thinking the same thing. I would not be suprised at all if he juices.

[Michael82]

BTW...anyone see JP's guns? I think he might be juicing too. :nervous:

[juice]

Travis Henry is built like a brick wall and tends to get injured quite often.. although Henry's injuries might have as much to do with his running style and size as anything else - is he juicing?

[Typ0]

listen...if Ralph Wilson wasn't using roids he'd be dead now...I know he's hanging on for that superbowl win but we better get going because the roids are only going to carry him so far.

[juice]

listen...if Ralph Wilson wasn't using roids he'd be dead now...I know he's hanging on for that superbowl win but we better get going because the roids are only going to carry him so far.The only 'Roids that Ralph might have a problem with are Hemmor-roids.

[Jeff1220]

I'm sure there are some genetic freaks in the NFL who get huge w/o juice, but I'd have to guess that a huge amount of players do. It just isn't normal to gain muscle mass and strength as much and as quickly as some of these guys do.

[Jeff1220]

I also don't think the injury thing is a sure fired gauge of who juices and who doesn't. Sure, many guys who juice will get injured, but they aren't the only ones. I can use myself as an example (I don't juice!). I work out very hard, and I have a small, compact frame - I'm 5'6" 150lbs, about 9%b.f. It seems that every couple of years or so, I get an injury, usually a shoulder, while lifting. From talking to trainers I know and other regulars at the gym, there seems to be a consensus that there are limits to your strength beyond what your muscles can handle. In other words, my muscles might be capable of benching 265-275, but my structural make-up (joints, ligaments, etc) might be capable of supporting considerably less weight. When muscle strength exceeds the weight the joints and such can handle, an injury can happen (and usually will).
My point is, don't point a finger at a guy for steroid just because he is injured a lot. He might just be a hard worker in the gym, and takes his body to limits it can't always handle.

[ICE74129]

I tell you what. If the feds showed up un announced at every NFL Camp and tested, I am willing to bet 85% of the league gets busted.

[Michael82]

I tell you what. If the feds showed up un announced at every NFL Camp and tested, I am willing to bet 85% of the league gets busted.
I wouldn't be suprised if the number was high, but not that high. Maybe 55%....

[Jeff1220]

I wouldn't be suprised if the number was high, but not that high. Maybe 55%....

I know. As if guys like the Manning Bros. or Martin Grammatica juice.
:funny: There are more of those types in the NFL than we all think of. Even the big fat guys on the OL and DL aren't as likely to be roid heads as you'd think. They have their weight to push guys around.

[Mr. Cynical]

'Roids in the NFL(link) - Any Bills on the pill?

[Demon]

I'd guess the # is very small of roids in the NFL. I'd say the % is high among offensive lineman, but besides that, pretty small, maybe a few LBers here and there.

As mentioned before, the only 2 Bills players i'd be worried about is Spikes and Moulds.

People are over re-acting to nothing. The world is ending and not everyone is cheating. If you work out and go to the gym and eat right, you will be build good also, esspicially if you keep doing it since middle school like alot of these guys do.

Roids is not the only way to look jacked people.

[gobuffalo2007]

I think lindell is on the roid
LOL i wish he was maybe then he could hit the big kicks.

[juice]

I'd guess the # is very small of roids in the NFL. I'd say the % is high among offensive lineman, but besides that, pretty small, maybe a few LBers here and there.

As mentioned before, the only 2 Bills players i'd be worried about is Spikes and Moulds.

People are over re-acting to nothing. The world is ending and not everyone is cheating. If you work out and go to the gym and eat right, you will be build good also, esspicially if you keep doing it since middle school like alot of these guys do.

Roids is not the only way to look jacked people.I dont know about that Demon.. To be able to increase Stamina, Strength, Speed, endurance, and the ability to heal from injury at an accelerated rate is worth Millions of dollars to the athletes in the NFL.. I'd say if there is a way to gain that type of an edge and it is as accessable as your area Gym-Rat then there is probably Rampant use within the League.

One test in the Pre-season is not going to discourage these world-class athletes from Cycleing on and off of Juice.. the financial gains are just too great.

Take BaseBall for example, Roid use only helps in Hitting and maybe healing from injuries, Stamina isn't soo much of an issue in a sport in which the players spend most of their game time either sitting or standing around in the field - In Football "Roid use can benefit in every aspect including recovery from bumps and bruises of gameday.

[Ickybaluky]

I don't think there are a large amount of steroid users in the NFL. The NFL is very aggressive with steroid testing, and more players would be caught if it were more prevalent. Testing positive for steroids is an automatic 4-game suspension the first time, unlike other drugs where the player is treated and nto suspended the first time. Getting caught with steroids is worse than getting caught smoking crack, in terms of the penalty.

That said, there are other substances more players are likely on, like HGH. HGH (Human Growth Hormone) is not detectable without a blood test.

[Demon]

Take BaseBall for example, Roid use only helps in Hitting and maybe healing from injuries, Stamina isn't soo much of an issue in a sport in which the players spend most of their game time either sitting or standing around in the field - In Football "Roid use can benefit in every aspect including recovery from bumps and bruises of gameday.

Getting hit alot of times and using steroids will only get you more hurt then recover from injuries faster. You always hear stories of bouncers getting beat up in bars and baseball players with injuries. If you use them right, you will be OK, i truly believe that, as Arnold has said, but bodylifting has no actual contact with the body, as football does. If Spikes was on roids, i really doubt he would play the whole season.

Look how easy it gets David Boston to get hurt. Roids make you look good and stuff, but to say they help you 200% is wrong. They hurt you if you use them wrong and in the NFL if a player is not getting hurt but yet is making the big tackles or is getting hit and stays healthy, then it's fair to say he's not using them.

[jamze132]

After watching Lindel not make anything over 40, I am 100% positive that he is clean! Bastard!

[juice]

I don't think there are a large amount of steroid users in the NFL. The NFL is very aggressive with steroid testing, and more players would be caught if it were more prevalent. Testing positive for steroids is an automatic 4-game suspension the first time, unlike other drugs where the player is treated and nto suspended the first time. Getting caught with steroids is worse than getting caught smoking crack, in terms of the penalty.

That said, there are other substances more players are likely on, like HGH. HGH (Human Growth Hormone) is not detectable without a blood test.What do you mean by aggressive.. They only test in the Pre-Season and are subject to Randoms during the regular season.

What about the off-season, it only takes a month to cylcle off of the 'Roids - that means the players have about 6 mos. to use and benefit from the use.

I think cycling on and off during the off-season is the reason players don't get caught more, the benefit is just too great performance and strength wise.

[juice]

I think Romanoski will be coming out with a Tell-All by the end of the year now that he is being sued by that kid whose carreer he ended.. Romo=Canseco of the NFL.

[DynaPaul]

Tendon injuries are the most common on roids. While your muscle can adapt fast to heavy weight and stress your tendons cannot. Tendons can only be strenghtened gradually. I wouldn't be surprised if all of the ripped guys with nagging injuries are juice junkies.

[sdbillsfan1]

rumor has it ..a past Qb or 2 for the bills was on roids ..........opps....... never mind ..those were hemoroids !

[Ickybaluky]

What do you mean by aggressive.. They only test in the Pre-Season and are subject to Randoms during the regular season.

What about the off-season, it only takes a month to cylcle off of the 'Roids - that means the players have about 6 mos. to use and benefit from the use.

I think cycling on and off during the off-season is the reason players don't get caught more, the benefit is just too great performance and strength wise.

I'm not saying nobody does it, but I don't think it is that many. Players are tested in preseason, but they are tested randomly year-round. If it were more prevalent, you would hear more about guys getting suspended for it. If a player tests positive for steroids once, he gets and automatic 4-game suspension. The second test results in a 6-game suspension and the 3rd a year suspension. If it were prevalent with a even half the players, you would hear about guys getting suspended all the time.

Once a player tests positive he is in the program and is tested several times each month. Yet, rarely do you hear about guys getting suspended for testing positive for steroids. That tells me that the program does a pretty good job of limiting it.

Now, that isn't to say players aren't abusing stuff. HGH is undetectable without a blood test. I'm willing to bet some guys are into that stuff.

However, given the programs that teams run, I think guys are for the most part clean. I just think these guys train real hard, and most come into the league big. You don't see the large fluctuations in size you do in baseball.

The NFL went through what baseball is going through now in the late 70's/early 80's. It culminated with all the bad press from Lyle Alzado's death, and they cleaned up their act. For several years after that, you saw a change in guys in terms of size, but gradually they got beyond it. Do some guys still abuse performance-enhancing stuff? Sure, but it isn't a majority. Most of these guys are just real big, and the lineman are as much fat as anything.

[G. Host]

Most of the steroids NFL players use are either bi-products or mislabelled. Some use it when injured to try to heal faster but I hardly blame people like the WR we had who had experimental surgery to try to recover when your only other option is not playing any more.

[djjimkelly]

well ill chime in on this topic. i have dabbled a few times with the juice and lol if guys dont think 90% of these guys havent used it just like a previous poster said ive got some farmland in the artic for u.

PEOPLE FAIL TO REALIZE HOW MANY THINGS JUICE CAN AND WILL DO.

1st not all juice is the same. some is for strentgh some is for endurance some are to heal.

2nd LOL it cracks me up when u hear of a junior or senior from college talked about before the draft and they say he put on 15-20 pounds of solid muscle. well lol i know alot of guys who work out very hard and u would be very lucky to gain 8-10 pounds of solid muscle in a year let alone from january to the combine.

3rd i dont think much juice is done during the season it wouldnt make any sense but year round testing my ass! that is only for guys who have violated the NFL substance abuse policy.

4th alot of juice takes less the a week to be out of your system. so someone could juice like mad from now mid march to lets say late june and come into camp so clean he could be renamed mr clean.

PLEASE GUYS DONT BE SO NAIVE

my final thought lol i know these guys are athletes and some are freaks of nature but how come in your everyday life u never run into any other freaks of nature like these guys. or my favorite a guy like ricky williams leaves football for a year and drops roughly 35 pounds. from what smoking weed LMAO no its becuz he to is off the JUICE!

[djjimkelly]

one last thing i failed to mention i did juice 4 times in my life each time i visited my family doctor was monitored and he flat out told me as long as its not abused and its not done for a prolonged period (more then 3 month at a time) you will actually make yourself a healthier person. if any of u have a relative in nursing school or medical school get them to ask a teacher if u dont believe me. THE PROB WITH JUICE IS LIKE ANYTHING ELSE ABUSE! now would i tell someone to go do it NO becuz its not worth the partial mental anguish u get from it. by that i mean u knew u was in great shape and u cant be like that without it and if u think u can get there naturally LOL once again GROW UP

[Ickybaluky]

2nd LOL it cracks me up when u hear of a junior or senior from college talked about before the draft and they say he put on 15-20 pounds of solid muscle. well lol i know alot of guys who work out very hard and u would be very lucky to gain 8-10 pounds of solid muscle in a year let alone from january to the combine.

Guys are tested at the combine. You hear of guys failing for drugs on occasion, but rarely steroids.


3rd i dont think much juice is done during the season it wouldnt make any sense but year round testing my ass! that is only for guys who have violated the NFL substance abuse policy.

Not true. There are 2 random tests each team for the offseason. During the season, random tests occur each week. Usually 10-12 players are selected for random tests for each team. That is in addition to the mandatory preseason test.

Guys who are in the program are tested several times every month. This has all been collectively bargained, and the policy is available to read.

Again, if it were more prevalent you would hear of guys being suspended. Unlike hard drugs, steroids result in a suspension on the first positive test.

[Ickybaluky]

one last thing i failed to mention i did juice 4 times in my life each time i visited my family doctor was monitored and he flat out told me as long as its not abused and its not done for a prolonged period (more then 3 month at a time) you will actually make yourself a healthier person. if any of u have a relative in nursing school or medical school get them to ask a teacher if u dont believe me. THE PROB WITH JUICE IS LIKE ANYTHING ELSE ABUSE! now would i tell someone to go do it NO becuz its not worth the partial mental anguish u get from it. by that i mean u knew u was in great shape and u cant be like that without it and if u think u can get there naturally LOL once again GROW UP

Not to call you a liar, but I would be suspect of any doctor who tells you that. First of all, the effects of steroids are not really known, as they are a new enough phenomenon that not enough scientific testing of their effects on the body has been completed.

There are other effects that are undisputable. For instance, steroid use dries out the tendons and makes them less flexible, which is why you see so many tendon injuries in steroid users. It dries cartilage as well, which is why so many long-term users develop chronic knee problems (like those that ended Mark McGuire's career).

I remember reading a story where reknowned surgeon Dr. James Andrews discussed how 15 years ago he maybe did 2 "Tommy John" tendon transfer surgeries in a month. Now, he does over 20 a month and the majority of those are done on high school kids. He thought it was a condition brought on by steroid use.

[djjimkelly]

well my man go ask your family doctor if a minor regiment is bad for u. make an apointment. lol and if u dont think long term and short term effects arent known your even more naive then i would think anyone is. LIKE I SAID the "MAN" will tell u this is good this is bad to control society.

why is POT illegal do u think becuz GOVT really thinks it will ruin everyones life no its illegal becuz some wouldnt be able to say NO 24 hours a day and how would u monitor smoking and driving blood tests LOL. LIKE i said grow UP and stop being so naive. not everything that is illegal becuz of the people who can handle it. its illegal becuz the ordinary everyday fool couldnt handle it.

[Michael82]

I just want to know why they don't make Steroids illegal...if it's as bad as they say it is...ban it! Then MLB, NBA, Olympics, and the NFL won't be able to let it slide thru because it's freaking illegal. It would weed out all the good players that are hurting themselves by taking it and it would make it so only the druggies are doing it and you can suspend them like with failing drug tests or throw their ass in jail.

[Jeff1220]

It is illegal Mikey, unless prescribed by a Dr. for a legit medical reason.

[Ickybaluky]

well my man go ask your family doctor if a minor regiment is bad for u. make an apointment. lol and if u dont think long term and short term effects arent known your even more naive then i would think anyone is. LIKE I SAID the "MAN" will tell u this is good this is bad to control society.

why is POT illegal do u think becuz GOVT really thinks it will ruin everyones life no its illegal becuz some wouldnt be able to say NO 24 hours a day and how would u monitor smoking and driving blood tests LOL. LIKE i said grow UP and stop being so naive. not everything that is illegal becuz of the people who can handle it. its illegal becuz the ordinary everyday fool couldnt handle it.

Wow. Just... Wow.

It doesn't sound like you have educated yourself on this topic, or for that matter, a lot of topics.

[Michael82]

It is illegal Mikey, unless prescribed by a Dr. for a legit medical reason.
If it is...then why is the government even fighting with those leagues? Just force testing and start locking the users up.

[Bill Brasky]

why is POT illegal

Because our government isn't making money off it, that's why.

[Typ0]

Because our government isn't making money off it, that's why.

that's rediculous...if it were decriminalized the gov't would make a fortune on the tax monies generated.

[juice]

Wow. Just... Wow.

It doesn't sound like you have educated yourself on this topic, or for that matter, a lot of topics.If you think the long term effects of steroids are not known then you aren't educated on the subject.

Steroids are used for medical purposes and it is the misuse and abuse of 'roids that are dangerous.. when used properly the effects are not in dispute as in the case of Lance Armstrong and Barry Bonds.

Thats not to say that they are safe for every H.S. kid trying to get ripped to use or every average athlete, such as Jose Canseco, trying to play MLB should be able to turn themselves into the Incredible Hulk.

Steroids have no place in Amateur or Professional athletics because it give false results and negates individual effort and hard work of superior athletes.

It's the abuse that makes them dangerous.:flex:

[Ickybaluky]

If you think the long term effects of steroids are not known then you aren't educated on the subject.

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty well read on the subject. Steroids have only been around for a few decades, and they are still testing the long-term effects of use in humans. However, there are effects that are known, like the fact they tend to dry up ligament and cartilage.


Steroids are used for medical purposes and it is the misuse and abuse of 'roids that are dangerous.

Right, medical use of steroids. They give them to cancer patients. Consider the alternative for those people.

They also give cancer patients Radiation and Chemotherapy. By your logic, it would be fine for the rest of us to do that as well.


when used properly the effects are not in dispute as in the case of Lance Armstrong and Barry Bonds.

But what are Armstrong and Bonds going to be dealing with in 20 years? That data isn't really known with certainty, although it is thought that steroid use will lead to adverse effects. For instance, many steroid users suffer from chronic athritis in the knees. That is what ended Mark McGuire's career.

There isn't enought scientific evidence to say with certainty what the effects of steroid use are, but in general it is not good to pump yourself full of synthetic chemicals. The reason steroids are not legal is because they have not been proven safe. If you decide to take them (illegally), you are gambling your long-term health on the unknown.

This is how people talked about cigarettes up until the 1970's.

[juice]

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty well read on the subject. Steroids have only been around for a few decades, and they are still testing the long-term effects of use in humans. However, there are effects that are known, like the fact they tend to dry up ligament and cartilage.



Right, medical use of steroids. They give them to cancer patients. Consider the alternative for those people.

They also give cancer patients Radiation and Chemotherapy. By your logic, it would be fine for the rest of us to do that as well.



But what are Armstrong and Bonds going to be dealing with in 20 years? That data isn't really known with certainty, although it is thought that steroid use will lead to adverse effects. For instance, many steroid users suffer from chronic athritis in the knees. That is what ended Mark McGuire's career.

There isn't enought scientific evidence to say with certainty what the effects of steroid use are, but in general it is not good to pump yourself full of synthetic chemicals. The reason steroids are not legal is because they have not been proven safe. If you decide to take them (illegally), you are gambling your long-term health on the unknown.

This is how people talked about cigarettes up until the 1970's.Maybe you've only been aware of the use of steroids by athletes for a few decades, but they've actually been around since the '50s when the use by russian athletes allowed them to shatter weight-lifting records and entire athletic programs were studied by Russian scientists to give them an advantage over the rest of the worlds athletes in the Olympics and other competitions.. instead of a few decades that would be more like a half century.

Medical uses along with Cancer treatment also include people with eating disorders like Anorexia and Bolemia(SP), birth defects that result in physical under-developement and a host of other medical uses.. so it's use isn't just limited to people who have no other choice except Chemotherapy or death. It isn't just my "Logic" that they have other uses, but the logic of many medical Scholars.

I would argue that McGuires carreer was as much shortened by the threat of his use of Andro-Steroids becoming public knowledge as it was his body deteriorating from the use of the illegal substance - McGuire was aware that he was about to become part of the Baseball steroid controversy when he retired and he also knew along with many baseball officials that the use of Roids was the sole reason for the HR explosion that saved the game half-a-decade ago. He may have chosen to end his carreer so he would not have to participate in congressional hearings during his playing days and totally tarnish the records that he and others had set while he was still part of the game. He wold have to have used steroids for a longer period of time than he did, maybe 2-3 years, for it to make his knees deteriorate to the point where he could no longer play. Basically be left the sport to avoid the type spectacle that he will be a part of tommorrow and so his accomplishments wouldn't be questioned.

What are Bonds and Armstrong going to be dealing with 20 years from now, well who knows but you can bet there are Millions of athletes WorldWide that would be willing to accept the risk in exchange for the Records, recognition and financial gains to answer that question and it's because of the risk of these millions of youths that the use of Steroids is illegal a much as any other reason.

www.steroidworld.com/steroidshistory.htm (http://www.steroidworld.com/steroidshistory.htm)

[G. Host]

Right, medical use of steroids. They give them to cancer patients. Consider the alternative for those people.

They also give cancer patients Radiation and Chemotherapy. By your logic, it would be fine for the rest of us to do that as well..

Steroids are used for other things less serious as well. My daughter took steriod ointment for a problem with her skin - bumps on her arms. They say it is probably hereidity but neither my wife nor myself have the problem and it is unlikely it is a recessive gene thing since we come from different races and different parts of the world.

Steroids are bad like almost everything - abuse it and it causes problems. In 20 years they will discover that Gatoraid causes cancer or some other problem.

[HurryUpTom]

I am schocked at the low usage estimates some people are giving. In Canadian college ball, there are a lot of guys on each team that use - if they use for something like CIAU football, of course they're going to use for the NFL.

Testing, schmesting. Olympic medalists went to Balco and didn't get caught and the olympics tests are more advanced than the NFL's from what I know.

With the combine numbers that a lot of DB's, RB's, and WR's put up, there is no way you are going to convince me that the majority of those guys are not on something. It may not technically be steroids, but it will be something very, very similar.

[Ickybaluky]

You're kidding, right?

You link to a website that promotes steroid use and you call that a source? Cigarette companies used to produce all sorts of information about how smoking was safe, and how people who said they weren't were just mis-informed.

I realize the Soviets were using steroids with their athletes extensively long before they became common, but steroids didn't really become common use to the general public until the 70's. There wasn't a lot of independent research into the effects of steroid use, and there are still lots of questions. That is the problem. You are making blanket statements that have no evidence to support them.

First of all, steroids are prescribed by doctors as a treatment of varous ailments not unlike many other medications. That doesn't mean you can take the leap in logic that they are safe for everyone. Sometimes doctors prescribe medicine's with harmful side-effects because the patient has an ailment with problems that out-weight the harmful side effects of the medicine.

Second, these medicines that are prescribed are regulated by the FDA, which tests extensively on the side effects to try to keep the public safe.

The FDA's position on steriods is outlined in this statement (http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2003/NEW00967.html):

<i>"The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has recently been made aware of a substance called tetrahydrogestrinone (THG), which is reportedly used by athletes to improve their performance. Based on the agency's analysis of this product, FDA has determined that THG is an unapproved new drug. As such, it cannot be legally marketed without FDA approval under the agency's rigorous approval standards that are meant to ensure that drugs that are sold to American consumers are safe and effective.

FDA is concerned about the marketing and use of this unapproved product and is working with other Federal law enforcement agencies to aggressively engage, enforce, and prosecute those firms or individuals who manufacture, distribute, or market THG.

"Our mission is to protect the American public from this potentially harmful product," said John Taylor, FDA's Associate Commissioner for Regulatory Affairs.

In the meantime, FDA is warning consumers that while little is formally known about the safety of this drug, its structure and relationship to better known products leads FDA to believe that its use may pose considerable risks to health.

Although purveyors of THG may represent it as a dietary supplement, in fact it does not meet the dietary supplement definition. Rather, it is a purely synthetic "designer" steroid derived by simple chemical modification, from another anabolic steroid that is explicitly banned by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency.

The use of THG by athletes, as an alternative to other banned anabolic steroids, was recently disclosed by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency. This substance is closely and structurally related to two other synthetic anabolic steroids, gestrinone and trenbolone. Anabolic steroids, which build muscle mass, can have serious long-term health consequences in men, women, and children."</i>

Their position is the result of extensive research that is well-documented (http://www.health.org/govpubs/phd561/st7.aspx).

There are a number of effects to steroids that still need to be researched. These include not only physical effects, but psychological. For instance, steroid use is being linked to depression. David Katz and Harrison Pope of Harvard University published a paper which said:

"There may be a greater number of cases of anabolic steroid-induced psychiatric illness in this country than had been assumed ... these effects may pose a danger not only to the steroid user but to the public at large."

I'll agree with you on one point, there is a lot of mis-information out there on steroids. The fact is, there is a lot that is not known about the effects steroids might have, and more research is needed. However, there is no evidence to support your contention that steroids are safe if used right. Linking to a web page that exists to promote steroid use is not evidence.

If you want to take them, it is your choice, but you are gambling with your health, IMO.

[juice]

I never said they were safe for anyone, I just posted that link to give you a point of reference and to let you know that they've been studied for longer than a few decades, and that they have other uses besides cancer treatment like you suggested.

Since your so "well read" on the subject, I figured you'd like to know that they aren't only abused by athletes but also perscribed by doctors for a variety of reasons.

Along with the Olympic athletes such as Marion Jones, there are probably scores of NFL players Juicing.. if they can Dope and avoid the Olympic testing how hard do you think it is for guys in the NFL to Cycle-On and Cycle-Off during the off-season.

If Olympic athletes can beat the system and get away with it how hard do you think it is for these multi-millionaires to beat the system?

The evidence is, Look at MLB, look at Olmpic athletes, simply look at HS athletes, why do you think that these NFL players aren't doing the same thing when they stand to profit Millions by Cycling on and off during the Off-season?

[HurryUpTom]

If Olympic athletes can beat the system and get away with it how hard do you think it is for these multi-millionaires to beat the system?Here's what I consider an even better question:

If Olympic athletes, who make very little money, can afford to find ways around the system. What about NFL athletes who have cash to burn?

[Ickybaluky]

I never said they were safe for anyone, I just posted that link to give you a point of reference and to let you know that they've been studied for longer than a few decades, and that they have other uses besides cancer treatment like you suggested.

Since your so "well read" on the subject, I figured you'd like to know that they aren't only abused by athletes but also perscribed by doctors for a variety of reasons.

Along with the Olympic athletes such as Marion Jones, there are probably scores of NFL players Juicing.. if they can Dope and avoid the Olympic testing how hard do you think it is for guys in the NFL to Cycle-On and Cycle-Off during the off-season.

If Olympic athletes can beat the system and get away with it how hard do you think it is for these multi-millionaires to beat the system?

The evidence is, Look at MLB, look at Olmpic athletes, simply look at HS athletes, why do you think that these NFL players aren't doing the same thing when they stand to profit Millions by Cycling on and off during the Off-season?

I'm not saying that NFL players aren't doing it, I just don't think they are doing it in the numbers people were saying. I think they are abusing recreational drugs more often, because more guys get caught for that. I think if a majority of guys were doing it more would get caught, just like they do with recreational drugs.

BTW, not all Olympic athletes beat the system. Some get caught. Do some get away with it? Undoubtedly.

Maybe I'm wrong or want to be. However, I do think that year-round weight training and eating right can achieve good results over time. The biggest difference with steroids is how fast they provide results. I don't doubt that there are a lot of NFL players that use illegal performance enhancements of various types, but I don't think it is as extensive as some here think.

[RetroRaiders81]

Spike's if anyone.

[HurryUpTom]

Spike's if anyone.
Why Spikes and not Wire? What about McGahee? Moulds? Clements? Shelton? Fletcher? Peters?

Geese ... they're professional athletes, a fitness level that is only attainable for most of the population through performance enhancements. I'm not saying that makes them all users, but it certainly makes it likely that more than 2% are users.

[juice]

I'm not saying that NFL players aren't doing it, I just don't think they are doing it in the numbers people were saying. I think they are abusing recreational drugs more often, because more guys get caught for that. I think if a majority of guys were doing it more would get caught, just like they do with recreational drugs.

BTW, not all Olympic athletes beat the system. Some get caught. Do some get away with it? Undoubtedly.

Maybe I'm wrong or want to be. However, I do think that year-round weight training and eating right can achieve good results over time. The biggest difference with steroids is how fast they provide results. I don't doubt that there are a lot of NFL players that use illegal performance enhancements of various types, but I don't think it is as extensive as some here think.Agreed the Steroid #s might be somewhat elevated but comparing those Rec. drug #s with roid abuse are kinda like apples and oranges because masking agents are the easiest way to get over on recreation drug tests and getting caught using Coke or Weed is not nearly the PR nightmare that failing because of Roid use is and doesn't have as severe a penalty.

Sticky Ricky made it common knowledge that many players are avoiding positive Rec. drug tests by using these masking means and unless your Quincy Carter rec. drugs dont usually cause the harm to you league reputation that Roids produce.

Sticky Ricky tried to rat out the entire league.

[juice]

Maybe you've only been aware of the use of steroids by athletes for a few decades, but they've actually been around since the '50s when the use by russian athletes allowed them to shatter weight-lifting records and entire athletic programs were studied by Russian scientists to give them an advantage over the rest of the worlds athletes in the Olympics and other competitions.. instead of a few decades that would be more like a half century.

Medical uses along with Cancer treatment also include people with eating disorders like Anorexia and Bolemia(SP), birth defects that result in physical under-developement and a host of other medical uses.. so it's use isn't just limited to people who have no other choice except Chemotherapy or death. It isn't just my "Logic" that they have other uses, but the logic of many medical Scholars.

I would argue that McGuires carreer was as much shortened by the threat of his use of Andro-Steroids becoming public knowledge as it was his body deteriorating from the use of the illegal substance - McGuire was aware that he was about to become part of the Baseball steroid controversy when he retired and he also knew along with many baseball officials that the use of Roids was the sole reason for the HR explosion that saved the game half-a-decade ago. He may have chosen to end his carreer so he would not have to participate in congressional hearings during his playing days and totally tarnish the records that he and others had set while he was still part of the game. He wold have to have used steroids for a longer period of time than he did, maybe 2-3 years, for it to make his knees deteriorate to the point where he could no longer play. Basically be left the sport to avoid the type spectacle that he will be a part of tommorrow and so his accomplishments wouldn't be questioned.

What are Bonds and Armstrong going to be dealing with 20 years from now, well who knows but you can bet there are Millions of athletes WorldWide that would be willing to accept the risk in exchange for the Records, recognition and financial gains to answer that question and it's because of the risk of these millions of youths that the use of Steroids is illegal a much as any other reason.

<A href="http://www.steroidworld.com/steroidshistory.htm" target=_blank I?>www.steroidworld.com/steroidshistory.htm (http://www.steroidworld.com/steroidshistory.htm)[/QUOTE] "I am not here to talk about the Past" ~Mark McGuire