Its official...We now know who officially got the crappy end of the stick! [Archive] - BillsZone.com

Romes

12-08-2002, 08:32 PM

Never get the job done. hmmm....reminds me of a guy by the name of Marino.

The Bills are still young, have a crappy defense, and mediocre/below-average special teams at best. Give us some time to re-build around Bledsoe before you call him the "biggest mistake in Bills history"

look at it this way, we got him for less that than Ricky, and both the Bills and the Dolphins will be at home come january. :tongue:

TacklingDummy

12-08-2002, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by WCoastFin
This may be one of the biggest mistakes in Bills history...we knew they were trying to trade him for a reason and now we know...

Damn it, we did make a mistake. We should of went after Ray Lucas during the offseason. :squish:

Originally posted by Wys Guy
The trade was a big gamble that is starting to look like it may have cost us more than we got in return.

Draft picks are also a Big gamble. It cost us a 1st rounder, Big deal. The worse we do the better the 2nd round pick gets.

Whoelse should we have picked up?? Didn't you want Blake?? Maybe we shouldn't of cut RJ.?? Didn't you want Travis Brown to start?? Maybe we should of let AVP start?

You put entirely too much blame on the offense. Anyone with half a brain knows that our defense is to blame for this season.

12-08-2002, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by CalBillsFan
Never get the job done. hmmm....reminds me of a guy by the name of Marino.

The Bills are still young, have a crappy defense, and mediocre/below-average special teams at best. Give us some time to re-build around Bledsoe before you call him the "biggest mistake in Bills history"

look at it this way, we got him for less that than Ricky, and both the Bills and the Dolphins will be at home come january. :tongue:

The only problem with this line of reasoning is that it completely ignores the fact that our O stinks. When Drew got here we were told that this was the missing piece. Our OL was solid, which it is. It's not perfect, but it gives him all the time he should need to put at least 20-some points a game. Our WRs are arguably the best in the game as a tandem. Henry is a top-notch RB as if that matters since they don't use him. Our TEs are fine.

So what's wrong w/ this picture?

It's not like we're scoring 34 points a game and losing 37-34. We can't put any points up either and many of the ones we do are in garbage time.

Romes

12-08-2002, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by TacklingDummy

Draft picks are also a Big gamble. It cost us a 1st rounder, Big deal. The worse we do the better the 2nd round pick gets.

Whoelse should we have picked up?? Didn't you want Blake?? Maybe we shouldn't of cut RJ.?? Didn't you want Travis Brown to start?? Maybe we should of let AVP start?

You put entirely too much blame on the offense. Anyone with half a brain knows that are defense is to blame for this season.

I agree. Allowing 29 points per game (or whatever the number is) did not help us this season. Yes, the offense made its share of mistakes, yes the special teams failed us on a few occasions but the defense put us behind in too many games. It seemed we were always playing catch up this year. The offense kept us in more games, than we should have been in.

TacklingDummy

12-08-2002, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by CalBillsFan
. It seemed we were always playing catch up this year. The offense kept us in more games, than we should have been in.

12 out of 13 games the Bills were behind. And some people wonder why they abanden the run game.:huh: duh.

DIHARD2

12-08-2002, 09:05 PM

CalBillsFan, and what's nice about us both being home in January is Bledsoe and the Bills beat Miami twice, Bledsoe has Miami No. Bledsoe and bills = spoiler to Miami! HaHaHaHaHaHa

I liked the idea that we have a resident fish fan to laugh at. Every day I look for anything WCF posts just so I can laugh. It would really surprised me if I ever read anything with substance from him. Seemed like everything WCF writes has zero logic behind it. WCF Thanks for being our Board Jester.

GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...

WCoastFin

12-08-2002, 09:10 PM

he was completely exposed...he proved what he is capable of doing at the beggening of the year only becuz it was a new team and was out to prove something and not to mention against cheap teams but now he has completely came back to earth...time to trade him so he can have another good year on another new team....or else boredom will kick in....and its funny to come to think that at one point some Bills fans were mentioning that he was better than Kelly...LMAO...as much as I hate him I have the most uprespect for Kelly and his accomplishments...but I have no respect for Bledsoe whatsoever!

RedEyE

12-08-2002, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by TacklingDummy

12 out of 13 games the Bills were behind. And some people wonder why they abanden the run game.:huh: duh.

Of course they were behind. They only scored first in one of those games. Then failed to appropriately establish the run in QRTR 1. Gilbride, admittedly, uses the pass to set up the run. IMO, and in the opinion of most anyone that has played the game, Gilbride's philosphy is backwards. Use the run, burn time off the clock, and set up the pass. Buffalo can't even run a screen pass, because the run rarely gets firmly established.

12-08-2002, 09:14 PM

Trading him isn't a possibility. He's here thru the '04 season at least. We definitely need to get an O.C. in here however who knows how to run Henry.

The focus of this O needs to be Henry, not Drew and the passing game. I know that's gonna be unpopular with a lot of fans who prefer to see records, thousand yard receivers, and exciting pass plays, but if we want to start winning games, then we need to make Henry the centerpiece of this offense much like Holmes is for K.C.

Henry has turned into an oustanding rusher and has fine hands as well. He's a great all-around back who barely gets used.

Romes

12-08-2002, 09:18 PM

We have scored less than or equal to 17 points and lost only 4 times this season. The least our team has put up in a win is 23. We have put up 30 points and lost twice this season. 8/12 weeks our offense has scored enough points where one expects a win. Wys, we had a bad game today, but I don't see how you can say that our offense stinks.

The Pats and Belichik have our number. The Jets got a huge lead on us when we only scored 13 and the KC game we just self destructed with penalties. Our O has not been perfect, but come on, you cannot honestly say that they stink.

WCoastFin

12-08-2002, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by DIHARD2
CalBillsFan, and what's nice about us both being home in January is Bledsoe and the Bills beat Miami twice, Bledsoe has Miami No. Bledsoe and bills = spoiler to Miami! HaHaHaHaHaHa

I liked the idea that we have a resident fish fan to laugh at. Every day I look for anything WCF posts just so I can laugh. It would really surprised me if I ever read anything with substance from him. Seemed like everything WCF writes has zero logic behind it. WCF Thanks for being our Board Jester.

GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...

Miami has always had Bledsoes number in NE....lets face the facts the first win over us was becuz we had a depleted team...the second win Ill give it to you, but even then we had our second string QB in....wait till you plays us again at full strength.

Romes

12-08-2002, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by WCoastFin

Miami has always had Bledsoes number in NE....lets face the facts the first win over us was becuz we had a depleted team...the second win Ill give it to you, but even then we had our second string QB in....wait till you plays us again at full strength.

translation:

blah, blah, blah, excuse, blah, blah, excuse, blah, blah, blah

Tatonka

12-08-2002, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by CalBillsFan

translation:

blah, blah, blah, excuse, blah, blah, excuse, blah, blah, blah

rofl.. hahaha

Cntrygal

12-08-2002, 11:41 PM

THATHURMANATOR

12-09-2002, 03:22 AM

Blah blah blah blah blah. WHATEVER!!! I am sure we would have been much better with Johnson, Vanpelt, Brown or Blake or whatever bum they brought in here.

Yes New England has our # but lets see what happens next year when we have some money to spend on d!!.

The_Philster

12-09-2002, 04:34 AM

There's no way of knowing for sure who got the short end of the stick until we see how the draft pick that New England picked up in the trade pans out. Bledsoe's had an up-and-down season to be sure, but he's still given us better QB play than anyone since Flutie's 98 season...or Kelly's normal seasons.

don137

12-09-2002, 05:33 AM

Like I said earlier we are rebuilding so many of us did not expect to make the playoffs. The Bills will be over 10 million under the cap and even more after they cut Riemersma.
The Dolphins on the other hand traded for Ricky and have a 7-5 record. They look weak defensively and have shown they are not Super Bowl material. There salary cap bubble is about to burst and they most likely won't have a first round pick next year. I keep forgetting fin fans and many of there players are happy to make the playoffs and don't care about championships. This year does not seem any different.

clumping platelets

12-09-2002, 05:39 AM

Will the Fins make the playoffs? :huh:

The_Philster

12-09-2002, 06:07 AM

Originally posted by clumping platelets
Will the Fins make the playoffs? :huh:

well, if they do, we know what results they'll get ;)
20-3
27-0
62-7
38-3

all bring back some nice memories ;)

don137

12-09-2002, 06:36 AM

Originally posted by The_Philster

well, if they do, we know what results they'll get ;)
20-3
27-0
62-7
38-3

all bring back some nice memories ;) :rofl:

TacklingDummy

12-09-2002, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by WCoastFin

...the second win Ill give it to you, but even then we had our second string QB in....wait till you plays us again at full strength.

Actually you had your 1st, 2nd, and 3rd string QBs in. We may be out of the playoff picture but the Fins arn't far behind.

WCoastFin

12-09-2002, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by The_Philster
There's no way of knowing for sure who got the short end of the stick until we see how the draft pick that New England picked up in the trade pans out. Bledsoe's had an up-and-down season to be sure, but he's still given us better QB play than anyone since Flutie's 98 season...or Kelly's normal seasons.

@ this point, they can draft a kicker and I would still say they got the better end of the stick....if you wouldve kept Flutie and let Rj go you wouldve been a contender right about now.

don137

12-09-2002, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by WCoastFin

....if you wouldve kept Flutie and let Rj go you wouldve been a contender right about now.

Now that is humorous. I think the California sun burned a couple brain cells used to analyze football talent....You are talking about a guy who lost his last 9 NFL games.

TedMock

12-09-2002, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by WCoastFin

@ this point, they can draft a kicker and I would still say they got the better end of the stick....if you wouldve kept Flutie and let Rj go you wouldve been a contender right about now.

Who let him in? Somebody please yell last call and shut off the lights next time you see him coming.

lunatic_bills_fan

12-09-2002, 01:53 PM

Well I will say this again, and anyone that has ever played the game before will understand it, others, sorry. Give Drew Bledsoe a defence that will cause a turnover here and ther, allow him to play in games where he knows he doesnt have to score every second drive and then you can evaluate him. Just a reminder to alot of you guys, 6th ranked O is the NFL is not too shabby. Yes he has int's, thats because he truly believes that nothing less than 30-35 points will win a game. You CANNOT expect a QB to execute well win this is on his mind. Yes we need to run the ball more, but with AVP at the helm, this team would be lucky to be 3-13 this year. Now Wys, your evaluations of players havnt been bang on this year as well, I specifiaclly remember all the "Down with Henry, Up with Bryson" comments you made. That was well.. to say the least, a big mistake. Drew will produce, give him a Defence to play with. Heck even Jay Feidler looks good with a defence, and he is second stringer QB material on a lot of teams.

justasportsfan

12-09-2002, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Trading him isn't a possibility. He's here thru the '04 season at least. We definitely need to get an O.C. in here however who knows how to run Henry.

The focus of this O needs to be Henry, not Drew and the passing game. I know that's gonna be unpopular with a lot of fans who prefer to see records, thousand yard receivers, and exciting pass plays, but if we want to start winning games, then we need to make Henry the centerpiece of this offense much like Holmes is for K.C.

Henry has turned into an oustanding rusher and has fine hands as well. He's a great all-around back who barely gets used.

If we had a running game that was a scoring threat then and only then can we start throwing the ball downfield like we did against Miami. Run first ,throw second.

On the other hand if we had a D that could stop teams from scoring, then we wouldn't have to play catch up and stop depending on Drews arm w/c most teams seem to have figured out. Gilbrides system has been known to be a long ball system and if you have someone like Belichik on the other side, it would be a very easy day for him.

WCJoke starts threads like this to rake up ZB's so he can use them to bet against us. We all know how dumb his post are and yet we post.

12-09-2002, 06:21 PM

lunatic,

Then you'll also remember in my statements about Henry that if he was going to turn himself around that he should be able to do that within 8 or 10 games. I suppose that part was conveniently forgotten. In any case, he did that, I said I'd wait for that, and he's made his case. The reason he isn't doing better is b/c he doesn't get the opps.

As to us being the #6 defense, also conveniently you seem to count the early games against the scrubbier teams just as much as the most recent ones. I say we'll be around #10 anyway by year's end. But that aside, if you evaluate our team's O over the past 7 weeks or so, there's no way that it's playing at a #6 level!

Over the past 7 weeks, our offense has averaged less than 19 PPG which would be good for about 20th, just ahead of Cincy!

So unless our O lights it up over the next three games, which I would say is a passing fancy at this point, that our offense isn't nearly as good as it was supposed to be. We'll more likely come out of the gate like we've been instead of like we did early this year, next year.

We can't be livin' in the past. In the NFL as much as any other sport, it's "what have you done for me lately" that matters. Except in the case of Drew of course. He'll be great no matter how he plays. :rolleyes:

12-09-2002, 06:23 PM

P.S. I always openly admit when I'm incorrect as I was w/ Henry and Price, which is more than I can say for a lot of people around here. I still think Price is drastically overrated and a product of this "yardage offense" that we play. He has seriously stepped up however.

Henry is the real deal. Indeed, I never thought I would have been saying that. Early on, I simply didn't want to falsely hand the reigns to Henry simply in order to try and get the shoe to fit. I wanted some heat on him so that he'd step up as soon as possible if in fact he was going to do so.

12-09-2002, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by don137
Like I said earlier we are rebuilding so many of us did not expect to make the playoffs. The Bills will be over 10 million under the cap and even more after they cut Riemersma.
The Dolphins on the other hand traded for Ricky and have a 7-5 record. They look weak defensively and have shown they are not Super Bowl material. There salary cap bubble is about to burst and they most likely won't have a first round pick next year. I keep forgetting fin fans and many of there players are happy to make the playoffs and don't care about championships. This year does not seem any different.

They surely were SB material before Fiedler went down w/ injury. It's only been since Lucas has been in there that they've gone from 5-1 to 7-5 w/ Lucas in there since he hasn't been able to score or pass.

Many analysts disagree with that statement and had Miami playing the best of any team in the AFC. That would be like saying if Drew went down that we suck. Miami's been decimated w/ various injuries, the least of which was not to Fielder.

On the flip side, we've had hardly any and still can't beat a decent team except under the most bizarre of circumstances. I don't know about Miami's salary cap bubble, but at full strength, they had quite a few professional analysts convinced that they were the best team in the AFC early on. If Fiedler comes back healthy, I still say lookout for them. Williams is among the top two RBs in the AFC, Miami has a very good D, and w/ Fiedler their passing game is well above average. STs is good too.

Us; we have crap STs, or average on a good day. One of the worst Ds in the league. A passing game that's gone sorely awry. And a rushing game that is sorely underutilized due to horrific coaching.

Miami's excuse is injuries. What's ours?!

lunatic_bills_fan

12-10-2002, 04:42 AM

Realistically, this offence shouldnt have come together as quick as it did at the beginning of the year. You would expect that it takes soem time for a group of guys to gel. After we come out the way we did, there was nowhere to go but down. They couldnt have gotten any better. Maybe they are now where they are supposed to be. Back at square 1. All the same with th8is amount of talen, if we can get a halfway knowledgeable OC this offence will be explosive once again.

MissBuffalo

12-10-2002, 11:29 AM

I agree lunatic, our offense did come together rather quickly. But IMO Gilbride isn't to blame, it's the D. After playing with them for 13 games, I can see doubt forming in the offensive players minds. Thinking they need to go out and perform above normal because the D can't stop anybody. Besides, it was bound to happen, Drew having a poor game. He can't be a superhero every sunday.

vabillsfan

12-10-2002, 11:57 AM

Yup. Give it up. We're doomed. Drew sucks, what a waste of a trade. Stupid stupid stupid Bills and Tom Donahoe.

PUH-LEAZE people. You're starting to sound like Redskins fans! Sure, we all would have liked a shot at the playoffs this year but its not happening. Drew is pressing to make things happen and they're not there. Kind of hard when you play from behind all the time.

Give it a rest. This season is lost. Enjoy the last 3 games at least and we'll see what happens next year.

Miami - pretenders. Take away Ricky and they're squat. We beat 'em soundly twice now.

And my good friend Wys, funny that you said

"Except in the case of Drew of course. He'll be great no matter how he plays."

Isn't that how you spoke of one Rob Johnson last year?!

GO BILLS!

Drewpac

12-10-2002, 12:00 PM

I agree. Look at how the pressure of carrying a team with no defense has affected other great NFL QB's. Peyton Manning and Brett Favre had a couple of really poor seasons (20+ int's) when they were trying to carry teams with really bad defenses. In fact, given how bad our defense is, Bledsoe has really had a very impressive year.
The thing that really worries me though, is how poorly he has played against the Jets and Pats. You'll never see the Bills in the playoffs while Drew is here if that trend continues.

12-10-2002, 12:35 PM

Until somebody can explain to me how the D is responsible for the O putting up only 7, 13, or 16 points, it's the offense that's largely to blame. If Gilbride had run Henry in several games, including BOTH N.E. games, I'll bet we'd be 9-4 right now.

The D sucks. We knew it would suck. If Gray had the talent that Philly has on D and was this bad, then yes, it would be the D. But in fact, Gilbride has the offensive equivalent of what the Philly D has and the O is one of the worst in the league over the past 7 games or so. Over that span, and largely as a result of a huge big-play game against Miami, we are averaging less than 18 offensive PPG.

That would be good enough to place us just above spectacular offensive teams like St. Louis, Washington, Cincy, and Detroit.

If that Miami game is not included, then in the remaining 6 games we're averaging only 15.5 PPG. That's just ahead of Dallas and Houston only.

So if that pleases everyone, I don't know what to say. But I'm not at all happy about it. If our O doesn't reverse that trend then I don't think that's a good sign. Afterall, what does Gilbride want?

Rice and Harrison as WRs
Gonzalez at TE
Holmes at RB, as if that would make a difference in the Gilbride game plan!
and the HOGS OL of '92?

He's got everything an O.C. could ask for short of perfection and he's doing NOTHING with it at the moment. We can't live off of 5 games at the beginning of this season for the next three years. We can't even live off of them now.

If you don't want to blame Gilbride, then who is it? Bledsoe?

It sure isn't Henry! The OL has given Drew plenty of time that I"ve seen often. Still, we can't put any points up.

Oh, sorry, I forgot! It's all about the yards. Excuse me. Now that Drew's set a record for most attempts for the Bills. Interesting how there's absolutely no links between attempts and points, eh! Funny, I think we'd have three more wins if Drew had 150 fewer attempts and Henry had 150 more carries.

Not Gilbride though. No! We pass come hell or high water. Even if it's not working. Even if throwing means losing by 28 instead of 10, he still won't run. It's unbelieveable!

Romes

12-10-2002, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Until somebody can explain to me how the D is responsible for the O putting up only 7, 13, or 16 points, it's the offense that's largely to blame.

OK, the defense puts our offense in horrible field position. This is the NFL no offense can consitently march 70-80 yards downfield and get points every time.

Our defense gives up points early we are always down. Thus forcing us to pass, in order to get back into the game. The defense takes away Henry not Gilbride.

Yes, in the KC game Gilbride should have ran Henry more in the redzone but from what I read it was Bledsoe that audibled the plays to pass. That was corrected and in Miami we ran Henry 35 times but it was the pass that got us back into that game. The TD to Price at the end of the half and the TD to price where he ran one from 70 yards both of those plays allowed us to just pound the ball with Henry since we were back in it after those plays.

If the defense could keep us in ballgames we could use all our offenisve weapons. Add on to that that the only game where we got any type of good field position was the last Miami game and I think you can make a good case of how the D is responisble for the low scoring by our offense.

Earthquake Enyart

12-10-2002, 02:44 PM

During the last game didn't they rattle off a stat that said that since the Bills don't have any takeaways (except against the fish :snicker: ) that they started 58 (don't quote me on the exact #) consecutive drives in their own end. Along with the lousy kickoff returns, they are always playing on the long field.

Patrick76777

12-10-2002, 02:48 PM

My brain seriously goes numb when I try to follow that mans logic.

WCoastFin

12-10-2002, 03:16 PM

I know theres some bills fans out there other than Wys who deep down and side are eating themselves up inside asking themselves...why the heck did they trade that 1st rd pick for Drew......They shouldve shopped Price & Remiersma around to see what other Qb they could come up with....even going after J>Blake wouldve been the better option....The point was to rebuild for the future...and you paid a big price for that to be interrupted.

Patrick76777

12-10-2002, 03:26 PM

I don’t know, I rather enjoyed the way he carved up the Dolphins twice.

Rude American

12-10-2002, 03:40 PM

time to get RJoke back for wys.

don137

12-10-2002, 04:27 PM

I believe Bledsoe presses the most and makes his biggest mistakes when he feels the offense has to carry the whole team because the defense is looking totally inept and the special teams is making no big plays. I am not defending Bledsoe because those are bad decisions on his part. Hopefully next year with better personnel on defense Bledsoe won't be put in those situations as much. I still would rather have Bledsoe over Fielder any dayand do not for one minute regret the trade...