Denny Green: "we’re not going to mess around with trading draft picks" for Henry

[Ickybaluky]

Latest article on the possible Henry/Shelton deal from the Mesa, AZ East Valley Tribune (http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=38899).

[ddaryl]

Give Green credit for sticking ot his guns...

[OpIv37]

wow, TD and Green are in a d**k measuring contest- this is fun to watch.

[Tatonka]

maybe it wont happen.. i just hope all three backs are gone by greens pick.

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

This is kinda fun! Who will blink first? I don't think either has the upperhand...
it all comes down to value. In my opinion, in the current market, their values are equal. Let's get an even swap done, so we know who to pick in the draft.

[jpdex12]

maybe it wont happen.. i just hope all three backs are gone by greens pick.
That's right bro! You know that is what TD is patiently going to wait for. Then he will have Denny by the short hairs. Denny better hope that the deal goes down before it gets that far or TD just might give it to him dry and demand more than just Shelton and a swap of 2nd round picks.
You know that Green is just blowing smoke because if he wasn't interested at all in TH, he wouldn't keep issuing statements about the trade and what he will offer for TH.
It is going to be fun to watch this play out. Like two teenage boys trying to out do eachother over a girl. Go get him TD!

[ryjam282]

I still think it will happen. I think this is just a response to the Sirius interview with TD and he has to say something.

[Mr. Miyagi]

With the signing of Bennie Anderson, our Oline just got better and we got less desperate. Whereas Arizona still doesn't have an RB. I'd say we have the upperhand.

[JJamezz]

I think TD has the upper hand simply because Shelton makes too much money to be a backup, and Henry doesn't.

[Dicknoze69]

I think TD has the upper hand simply because Shelton makes too much money to be a backup, and Henry doesn't.

I agree...despite all his posturing, I'm not sure Green can keep Shelton around as a backup.

[Mudflap1]

Arizona wants Henry, they want to get rid of Shelton. We want to get rid of Henry, and can get AT LEAST Shelton, so why not pine for more while there's still time, get what you can, and if, at the end of the day, all you can get is Shelton, then make the deal. You get a LT that you need, get rid of a disgruntled running back, and you make a smart salary cap move.

It's just posturing. Tom Donahoe's trying to get everything he can, knowing worst-case scenario he's got the even up trade in his back pocket.

Jon

[mysticsoto]

I love the sound of this...from: http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050401/1072863.asp


"The Bills plan to take a look at starting center Trey Teague at left tackle in the spring minicamps. If the move becomes permanent, the Bills could field one of the toughest and nastiest interior lines in the NFL with Anderson and Chris Villarrial at guard and Tucker manning the center spot. All three are rugged performers who play with a mean streak."

[HAMMER]

Why is everyone so high on Shelton? He has been thrown on the trash heap for a reason, he didn't get it done in AZ. Yes we need a LT but at what cost? Travis Henry is a very good RB, I am in no hurry to give him away either. 1200 and 1300 yard seasons are nothing to sneaze at, you can never have too many good backs, see Carolina the last few years. Buffalo owns him through next season, if I am in charge he will play for me this year. Draft a center and move Teague to LT, he knows the position and is very capable.

[SABURZFAN]

screw denny green!!!!!! :mad:


if they don't want to deal with draft picks,they better tell bidwell that he needs to eat some of shelton's contract.henry has more value than shelton if you want to get down to it.how many RBs are in the NFL that are young,making $1.35 million,and have a couple of 1000 yards seasons under his belt?not too many.


people wonder why arizona has been bad for so long.here's one reason why they continue to suck.

[The Natrix]

I wish Shelton would come out and say in the papers that he wants to go to Buffalo.

[ScottLawrence]

Why is everyone so high on Shelton? He has been thrown on the trash heap for a reason, he didn't get it done in AZ. Yes we need a LT but at what cost? Travis Henry is a very good RB, I am in no hurry to give him away either. 1200 and 1300 yard seasons are nothing to sneaze at, you can never have too many good backs, see Carolina the last few years. Buffalo owns him through next season, if I am in charge he will play for me this year. Draft a center and move Teague to LT, he knows the position and is very capable.


Didn't some say the same about Pete Kendall?



LIke SHelton, Green had a grudge against Kendall as well, and was released in July of last year. The Jets picked him up, and he was one of there best OL in the 2004 season.

[HurryUpTom]

Isn't Najeh Davenport still available for a 4th rounder? If that's all it costs to get him, I don't see why the Cards will be in desperate measures to get trade Shelton and a higher pick for Henry.

I don't think either team is in panic mode right now and regardless of the way the draft turns out, both teams are probably going to have options. I won't be shocked, but I will be surprised if this deal goes through before training camp when one or both players end up holding out.

[Tatonka]

Draft a center and move Teague to LT, he knows the position and is very capable.

yeah.. the 11.5 sacks he gave up in the one season he played LT show that he definately capable of something.. like getting our new qb killed.

[THATHURMANATOR]

yeah.. the 11.5 sacks he gave up in the one season he played LT show that he definately capable of something.. like getting our new qb killed.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[mysticsoto]

Isn't Najeh Davenport still available for a 4th rounder? If that's all it costs to get him, I don't see why the Cards will be in desperate measures to get trade Shelton and a higher pick for Henry.

I don't think either team is in panic mode right now and regardless of the way the draft turns out, both teams are probably going to have options. I won't be shocked, but I will be surprised if this deal goes through before training camp when one or both players end up holding out.
Excuse me? I haven't seen Davenport having 2 back to back 1300+ yard seasons...and playing with sore ribs and still running up yards!!!

The question should be, why do we want Shelton? Who the hell is he? In a year where OTs were in such high demand, that an average/decent LT collected $10 Million+ just in sb, who was out there trying to recruit Shelton? Not a damn team. Everyone wants an upgrade to the team from last year, but somehow think that an average LT is going to do it. He's going to be no different than Teague at the position. They were both average. But moving Teague to LT means moving Tucker to Center who is more massive than Teague and maybe meaner. TT's athleticism will probably allow him to do a decent job at LT, atleast for a short term until we find the long term solution.

But fact of the matter is, Shelton hasn't done anything to make him standout and be worth what TH is worth!!! If Green doesn't agree, then we don't need to make the deal, and he can go spend some early draft picks for a RB and lose out on getting a top CB or DT. We won't lose out on anything. TH is a tremendous RB and will be the best backup we could have for WM.

[jpdex12]

Excuse me? I haven't seen Davenport having 2 back to back 1300+ yard seasons...and playing with sore ribs and still running up yards!!!

The question should be, why do we want Shelton? Who the hell is he? In a year where OTs were in such high demand, that an average/decent LT collected $10 Million+ just in sb, who was out there trying to recruit Shelton? Not a damn team. Everyone wants an upgrade to the team from last year, but somehow think that an average LT is going to do it. He's going to be no different than Teague at the position. They were both average. But moving Teague to LT means moving Tucker to Center who is more massive than Teague and maybe meaner. TT's athleticism will probably allow him to do a decent job at LT, atleast for a short term until we find the long term solution.

But fact of the matter is, Shelton hasn't done anything to make him standout and be worth what TH is worth!!! If Green doesn't agree, then we don't need to make the deal, and he can go spend some early draft picks for a RB and lose out on getting a top CB or DT. We won't lose out on anything. TH is a tremendous RB and will be the best backup we could have for WM.
I have my concerns to a minor degree about Shelton, but if TD is adiment about getting Shelton, then McNally must see something in him and I trust McNally.

[jpdex12]

Isn't Najeh Davenport still available for a 4th rounder? If that's all it costs to get him, I don't see why the Cards will be in desperate measures to get trade Shelton and a higher pick for Henry.

I don't think either team is in panic mode right now and regardless of the way the draft turns out, both teams are probably going to have options. I won't be shocked, but I will be surprised if this deal goes through before training camp when one or both players end up holding out.
Just read that Najeh was resigned in Green Bay. Yahoo sports has it up.

[HurryUpTom]

Excuse me? I haven't seen Davenport having 2 back to back 1300+ yard seasons...and playing with sore ribs and still running up yards!!!

The question should be, why do we want Shelton? Who the hell is he? In a year where OTs were in such high demand, that an average/decent LT collected $10 Million+ just in sb, who was out there trying to recruit Shelton? Not a damn team. Everyone wants an upgrade to the team from last year, but somehow think that an average LT is going to do it. He's going to be no different than Teague at the position. They were both average. But moving Teague to LT means moving Tucker to Center who is more massive than Teague and maybe meaner. TT's athleticism will probably allow him to do a decent job at LT, atleast for a short term until we find the long term solution.

But fact of the matter is, Shelton hasn't done anything to make him standout and be worth what TH is worth!!! If Green doesn't agree, then we don't need to make the deal, and he can go spend some early draft picks for a RB and lose out on getting a top CB or DT. We won't lose out on anything. TH is a tremendous RB and will be the best backup we could have for WM.
It's irrelevant since it seems that Davenport has signed, but who is Najeh Davenport? Dude, the guy is without a doubt one of the best backups in the NFL and could probably start on at least 10 teams if not more. I think he even put up a 180-yarder last season. He's done at least as much as Lamont Jordan and is also one of the best KR's in the game.

Is he better than Henry? He isn't as proven, but I think he has the talent. But if my options are giving up a 4th for Najeh or giving up a 3rd and Shelton for Henry. I wouldn't think too long before taking Najeh (the Cards dropping down in the 2nd is pretty much the equiv. of a 3rd).

As far as Henry's worth though ... a player's worth is not determined by what they've accomplished - a player's worth is determined by the availability of a suitable replacement. It's supply v. demand ... right now, there are a ton of RB's available (the 3 first rounders, Alexander, and James) and then there are backups like Henry, Thomas, Green, and others that are on the market. Everyone is looking to get rid of a RB this year.

[thebuffalobills4]

Took the words right out of my mouth.
:shocked: me too thats way too many sacks allowed includeing hes protecting a qbs
blindside.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

It's irrelevant since it seems that Davenport has signed, but who is Najeh Davenport? Dude, the guy is without a doubt one of the best backups in the NFL and could probably start on at least 10 teams if not more. I think he even put up a 180-yarder last season. He's done at least as much as Lamont Jordan and is also one of the best KR's in the game.

Is he better than Henry? He isn't as proven, but I think he has the talent. But if my options are giving up a 4th for Najeh or giving up a 3rd and Shelton for Henry. I wouldn't think too long before taking Najeh (the Cards dropping down in the 2nd is pretty much the equiv. of a 3rd).

As far as Henry's worth though ... a player's worth is not determined by what they've accomplished - a player's worth is determined by the availability of a suitable replacement. It's supply v. demand ... right now, there are a ton of RB's available (the 3 first rounders, Alexander, and James) and then there are backups like Henry, Thomas, Green, and others that are on the market. Everyone is looking to get rid of a RB this year.
A player's worth isn't simply determined by the availability of a suitable replacement, either--it is also determined by the cost of obtaining and paying the player as well as by whether the player is perceived as being capable of fitting into the team's system.

While Alexander and James are both clearly more accomplished than Henry and capable of fitting into just about any team's offensive system, both will come at a much higher price than Henry--not just in terms of the draft pick or player that will have to be given up to obtain them, but also in terms of the contract and signing bonus that both are looking to command. Having already signed franchise offers, they will be paid Top 5 money for this season and will be free to leave after the season if they do not receive a long=term deal to their liking or are not happy with the team that they go to. This is a risk with Henry, too, but he comes much cheaper in terms of what it will take to get him and how much he will earn this season.

The other veteran RBs still on the market are not nearly as attractive to a team like the Cardinals as you may think:

While Davenport has shown flashes of brilliance at times, he was injured even more than Henry while only playing in a back-up role and the numbers that he put up were achieved in part-time duty behind one of the best O-lines in the NFL in a B.Favre-led offense. T.Henry was running behind what could be argued was one of the worst offensive lines.

Despite being given ample opportunites to win the starting RB job for Cleveland, Green had off-field problems, was never able to distinguish himself on the field and could not seize the starting RB job for the Brown. In addition to being much more accomplished on the field, T.Henry has never had any off-field problems that have impacted his availability to the team.

Despite also being a 1st Round draft pick, like Green, and rushing for over 1,000 yards in a season, A.Thomas was so limited as a blocker and pass receiver that Chicago handed their starting RB job to T.Jones and was forced to change their offense to accomodate Thomas' limitations when Jones was injured last season (I know this because there were numerous reference to it on the Bears' website at the time which I read because I had picked up Thomas for my FFL team when Jones was injured). While not an outstanding receiver, T.Henry is not bad in the passing game and has been surprisingly good as a pass-blocker despite his size.

While T.Henry doesn't have the breakaway speed that D.Green likes to have from his RBs, he is a better fit in Green's offense than Green or Thomas, more reliable and accustomed to "carrying the load" than Davenport, and will come a lot cheaper than Alexander or James.

As for the rookies, Brown and Williams are likely to be gone by the time Arizona makes its pick in the 1st Round. Benson, who is younger, but not really any faster than Henry, may still be there, but, then, Green will have to decide whether to take him or a top-flight CB like A.Rolle or Pac-Man Jones--both of which he has described as Top 10 picks. Having already traded D.Starks and with R.Hill unsigned, the Cards need to get at least one CB out of this draft who can play for them this season. Taking Rolle or Jones will assure that he will get that CB, taking Benson won't necessarily guarantee that. Since Benson almost certainly will not make it out of the 1st Round, if Arizona takes a CB at # 8, Green will have to hope that JJ Arrington or C.Faison is still around when Arizona picks in the 2nd Round because those two are the most suited of the remaining RBs to his offense and are likely to be able to step into the starting job right away (Barber doesn't have much experience in the passing game and both Morency and Shelton have limited experience). Even if Arrington and Faison are still on the board, the question remains whether they will be able to step in and start immediately. With K.Warner, who is only slightly more mobile than D.Bledsoe, likely to be the Cards' starting QB this season, Green will need a starting RB who can block and catch from Day One--rookies sometimes have difficulties with that. There is no question that Henry will be able to step in and start right away in Green's offense--he is much more of a sure thing as a runner and as a blocker.

I still say that the trade, if it does take place, won't happen until draft day and may not take place until the Cards are on the clock in Round Two, but I do think that there is a better than 50-50 chance that, in the end, Green will be willing to make a deal for Henry that will include the swap of 2nd round picks that it has been reported that TD is looking for. Right now, though, I think both sides are doing a lot of posturing, hoping to get the best deal that they can.

As for Shelton, he hasn't lived up to his potential, but he has talent and some experience and Coach McNally may be able to light a fire under him, so he could be worth trading Henry for, since Henry doesn't want to play for the Bills and will be gone, without compensation, after the season anyway. And, since the Bills don't need a rookie RB to step in and start right away, they can afford to pick up a talented, but less experienced RB later in the draft to replace Henry.

[Michael82]

Give Green credit for sticking ot his guns...
No, he's the same guy that gave in to TD as far as asking for more than just Henry. :snicker:

[Michael82]

Excuse me? I haven't seen Davenport having 2 back to back 1300+ yard seasons...and playing with sore ribs and still running up yards!!!

The question should be, why do we want Shelton? Who the hell is he? In a year where OTs were in such high demand, that an average/decent LT collected $10 Million+ just in sb, who was out there trying to recruit Shelton? Not a damn team. Everyone wants an upgrade to the team from last year, but somehow think that an average LT is going to do it. He's going to be no different than Teague at the position. They were both average. But moving Teague to LT means moving Tucker to Center who is more massive than Teague and maybe meaner. TT's athleticism will probably allow him to do a decent job at LT, atleast for a short term until we find the long term solution.

But fact of the matter is, Shelton hasn't done anything to make him standout and be worth what TH is worth!!! If Green doesn't agree, then we don't need to make the deal, and he can go spend some early draft picks for a RB and lose out on getting a top CB or DT. We won't lose out on anything. TH is a tremendous RB and will be the best backup we could have for WM.
You are a fool if you believe that Travis Henry will still be a Bill in September.

[mysticsoto]

A player's worth isn't simply determined by the availability of a suitable replacement, either--it is also determined by the cost of obtaining and paying the player as well as by whether the player is perceived as being capable of fitting into the team's system.

While Alexander and James are both clearly more accomplished than Henry and capable of fitting into just about any team's offensive system, both will come at a much higher price than Henry--not just in terms of the draft pick or player that will have to be given up to obtain them, but also in terms of the contract and signing bonus that both are looking to command. Having already signed franchise offers, they will be paid Top 5 money for this season and will be free to leave after the season if they do not receive a long=term deal to their liking or are not happy with the team that they go to. This is a risk with Henry, too, but he comes much cheaper in terms of what it will take to get him and how much he will earn this season.

The other veteran RBs still on the market are not nearly as attractive to a team like the Cardinals as you may think:

While Davenport has shown flashes of brilliance at times, he was injured even more than Henry while only playing in a back-up role and the numbers that he put up were achieved in part-time duty behind one of the best O-lines in the NFL in a B.Favre-led offense. T.Henry was running behind what could be argued was one of the worst offensive lines.

Despite being given ample opportunites to win the starting RB job for Cleveland, Green had off-field problems, was never able to distinguish himself on the field and could not seize the starting RB job for the Brown. In addition to being much more accomplished on the field, T.Henry has never had any off-field problems that have impacted his availability to the team.

Despite also being a 1st Round draft pick, like Green, and rushing for over 1,000 yards in a season, A.Thomas was so limited as a blocker and pass receiver that Chicago handed their starting RB job to T.Jones and was forced to change their offense to accomodate Thomas' limitations when Jones was injured last season (I know this because there were numerous reference to it on the Bears' website at the time which I read because I had picked up Thomas for my FFL team when Jones was injured). While not an outstanding receiver, T.Henry is not bad in the passing game and has been surprisingly good as a pass-blocker despite his size.

While T.Henry doesn't have the breakaway speed that D.Green likes to have from his RBs, he is a better fit in Green's offense than Green or Thomas, more reliable and accustomed to "carrying the load" than Davenport, and will come a lot cheaper than Alexander or James.

As for the rookies, Brown and Williams are likely to be gone by the time Arizona makes its pick in the 1st Round. Benson, who is younger, but not really any faster than Henry, may still be there, but, then, Green will have to decide whether to take him or a top-flight CB like A.Rolle or Pac-Man Jones--both of which he has described as Top 10 picks. Having already traded D.Starks and with R.Hill unsigned, the Cards need to get at least one CB out of this draft who can play for them this season. Taking Rolle or Jones will assure that he will get that CB, taking Benson won't necessarily guarantee that. Since Benson almost certainly will not make it out of the 1st Round, if Arizona takes a CB at # 8, Green will have to hope that JJ Arrington or C.Faison is still around when Arizona picks in the 2nd Round because those two are the most suited of the remaining RBs to his offense and are likely to be able to step into the starting job right away (Barber doesn't have much experience in the passing game and both Morency and Shelton have limited experience). Even if Arrington and Faison are still on the board, the question remains whether they will be able to step in and start immediately. With K.Warner, who is only slightly more mobile than D.Bledsoe, likely to be the Cards' starting QB this season, Green will need a starting RB who can block and catch from Day One--rookies sometimes have difficulties with that. There is no question that Henry will be able to step in and start right away in Green's offense--he is much more of a sure thing as a runner and as a blocker.

I still say that the trade, if it does take place, won't happen until draft day and may not take place until the Cards are on the clock in Round Two, but I do think that there is a better than 50-50 chance that, in the end, Green will be willing to make a deal for Henry that will include the swap of 2nd round picks that it has been reported that TD is looking for. Right now, though, I think both sides are doing a lot of posturing, hoping to get the best deal that they can.

As for Shelton, he hasn't lived up to his potential, but he has talent and some experience and Coach McNally may be able to light a fire under him, so he could be worth trading Henry for, since Henry doesn't want to play for the Bills and will be gone, without compensation, after the season anyway. And, since the Bills don't need a rookie RB to step in and start right away, they can afford to pick up a talented, but less experienced RB later in the draft to replace Henry.
Fantastic breakdown of the situation. Not only did you beat me at answering HurryUpTom, but you were also alot more eloquent. I enjoyed your post very much. It's long, but had good content!

[mysticsoto]

You are a fool if you believe that Travis Henry will still be a Bill in September.
Actually, I don't believe TH will be here as a Bill come September - I believe, Green will have no choice but to acquiese to TD's upper hand. But I always prepare for the worst - that way I'm not disappointed. And if worse came to worse and TH is still with Buffalo somehow, I would not be crying. TH was a valuable RB the years he was with us, and although I don't like his whining right now, my view of his capabilities hasn't changed. I still think Az should be glad to get such a great, warrior RB.

[HurryUpTom]

Wow, you spent a long time typing something up that can basically be summed up as: just like Henry, all the available RB's have some issues.

I'm not saying henry is the worst of the bunch ... but he's far from the only option, and far from being without question himself. Contrary to your statement, he has had much worse injury problems than anyone and missed more time last year due to injury than Najeh. He has also had the worst fumbling problems of the bunch. It has also been over a season since Henry has had a great game ... something that no other available back can say.

[HurryUpTom]

Just curious ... how were OTs in such a high demand this year? Jennings is the only one that hit FA I believe and from what I read there was only one team that made an offer to him. That's not exactly a huge market.

[DMBcrew36]

Wow, you spent a long time typing something up that can basically be summed up as: just like Henry, all the available RB's have some issues.

I'm not saying henry is the worst of the bunch ... but he's far from the only option, and far from being without question himself. Contrary to your statement, he has had much worse injury problems than anyone and missed more time last year due to injury than Najeh. He has also had the worst fumbling problems of the bunch. It has also been over a season since Henry has had a great game ... something that no other available back can say.He said way more than that one sentence sum of yours. And missed more time last year due to injury? I think you're forgetting that McGahee sparked our offense, taking Henry's starting job for the remainder of the season. And though, you're right, he isn't the only option, he IS the best option.

[HurryUpTom]

He said way more than that one sentence sum of yours. And missed more time last year due to injury? I think you're forgetting that McGahee sparked our offense, taking Henry's starting job for the remainder of the season.\

I think you're forgetting that Henry busted his ankle to miss the last 5 games of the season due to injury and missed a game earlier in the season due to injury as well. Najeh missed 5 to injury, Henry missed 6.

[HurryUpTom]

And though, you're right, he isn't the only option, he IS the best option.So what you're saying is you agree with me? Did you get too caught up with trying to find fault with my posts to forget that the above statement is exactly what I said in the first place? Specifically, that the Cards will not become desperate because there are other options available.

[mysticsoto]

So what you're saying is you agree with me? Did you get too caught up with trying to find fault with my posts to forget that the above statement is exactly what I said in the first place? Specifically, that the Cards will not become desperate because there are other options available.
Any other options available to them are more "expensive" than what we offer them. Losing 11 spots in the 2nd round pick is not as much as losing a whole 2nd rd pick like Miami would want in return for Surtain. It's not just the RB situation that they are looking at. They need to end up with a good CB and a serviceable DT through the draft. Making the trade for TH allows them to grab Rolle with their 1st pick, and a good DT with their lowered 2nd pick. Any other trade means giving up a whole lot more!!!

[HurryUpTom]

Any other options available to them are more "expensive" than what we offer them. Losing 11 spots in the 2nd round pick is not as much as losing a whole 2nd rd pick like Miami would want in return for Surtain. It's not just the RB situation that they are looking at. They need to end up with a good CB and a serviceable DT through the draft. Making the trade for TH allows them to grab Rolle with their 1st pick, and a good DT with their lowered 2nd pick. Any other trade means giving up a whole lot more!!!
I thought Surtain was all but confirmed with the Chiefs?

That said, I think you're wrong. For guys like Green and Thomas, (and Najeh before he was re-signed), they don't need to give up first day picks at all. So they'd be in position to grab a better player with their second round pick than by trading down. Are they downgrading at RB if they do such a trade? Yes. But they're improving their depth at OT and improving whichever position they draft with their second rounder, so it's not like they're not getting any benefit to make up for that lack of quality at RB.

[DMBcrew36]

So what you're saying is you agree with me? Did you get too caught up with trying to find fault with my posts to forget that the above statement is exactly what I said in the first place? Specifically, that the Cards will not become desperate because there are other options available.
I don't think you really understood what I was saying. Nevermind, though.