If worst case scenario happens?

[mysticsoto]

So let's say a worse case scenario happens and neither side wants to budge. Should we end up keeping TH if AZ doesn't swap our 2nd rounds or do we give in and do the swap player for player?

[Mr. Miyagi]

Absolutely we keep Henry. Some team will have their starter hurt in training camps or preseason and we'll have a deal.

[jamze132]

Someone will probably step up and make a trade. It will happen when a player a team wanted to pick is already off the board. I just hope it happens late 1st round or early 2nd so we can get a good draft position out of it.

[jamze132]

I really think that Travis Henry is worth a 2nd round pick.

[justasportsfan]

Absolutely we keep Henry. Some team will have their starter hurt in training camps or preseason and we'll have a deal.Always happens. I hope the bills are spared..

[Dicknoze69]

Keep Henry

[sdbillsfan1]

I 'd say make the trade regardless..who knows what kind of attitude TH would bring to camp .And I can't see his value increaseing after next season ! Don't we need the line help a little more then a bicthy back-up ? Open to to hear why not if you think I'm wrong ! Just one question .."How long is Sheltons current contact good for ?"

[Mudflap1]

What I believe to be the case is that there is not a 'worst case scenario' where "oh my gosh, the Cardinals aren't gonna budge..."

Tom Donahoe has already realized that he can get Shelton in a straight up trade. The rest is just window dressing, details, and Tom Donahoe trying to squeeze a little bit more out of the Cards. If Arizona doesn't budge, I believe Tom Donahoe has already made up his mind to execute the trade around draft time. The Cards have to do it, they are going to cut Shelton anyway, they might as well get a good tailback for him, right? It's just a matter of whether they get nervous and fork up another draft pick or whatever.

Jon

[mysticsoto]

I 'd say make the trade regardless..who knows what kind of attitude TH would bring to camp .And I can't see his value increaseing after next season ! Don't we need the line help a little more then a bicthy back-up ? Open to to hear why not if you think I'm wrong ! Just one question .."How long is Sheltons current contact good for ?"
I'm kind of leaning toward keeping TH. The one thing I want made clear is that Shelton isn't this awesome LT that is going to solve all our worries at that position. He is an average LT and nothing else. TH is an above average back with 2 back to back 1300+ yard seasons. And we already know that TH will play hurt, has heart, etc, etc. Yeah, he's a little pissed, but he knows that any chance he gets to play and be in the game, he's got to make the best of it if he wants a good contract next year. So all this b*tching and whining is just him venting frustration.

Now, Shelton's contract is good for 3 years I think (or is it 4) and at $3 Million a year, that's a good price. But again, he may not end up staying at the position if he's "just average". Jason Peters is being groomed for the position. And the question comes down to - how fast can he be ready? That's something that TD needs to consult McNally with and a conversation we will not have access to.

But in truth, I won't be too terribly upset either way. I will understand if we trade TH in a player for player way. Somehow, I don't think that is TD's way though. If he doesn't get something out of it that he thinks it is worth - I don't think he'll do it...

My real "this can only happen in a dream" ideal situation would be for MW to get on a diet and strong workout program and come into camp in the best shape he's ever been in - and maybe between 330-345 lbs. Then I might consider moving him to LT and the rest of the pieces would fall into place easily.

[justasportsfan]

I'm kind of leaning toward keeping TH. The one thing I want made clear is that Shelton isn't this awesome LT that is going to solve all our worries at that position. He is an average LT and nothing else. TH is an above average back with 2 back to back 1300+ yard seasons. And we already know that TH will play hurt, has heart, etc, etc. Yeah, he's a little pissed, but he knows that any chance he gets to play and be in the game, he's got to make the best of it if he wants a good contract next year. So all this b*tching and whining is just him venting frustration.

Now, Shelton's contract is good for 3 years I think (or is it 4) and at $3 Million a year, that's a good price. But again, he may not end up staying at the position if he's "just average". Jason Peters is being groomed for the position. And the question comes down to - how fast can he be ready? That's something that TD needs to consult McNally with and a conversation we will not have access to.

But in truth, I won't be too terribly upset either way. I will understand if we trade TH in a player for player way. Somehow, I don't think that is TD's way though. If he doesn't get something out of it that he thinks it is worth - I don't think he'll do it...

My real "this can only happen in a dream" ideal situation would be for MW to get on a diet and strong workout program and come into camp in the best shape he's ever been in - and maybe between 330-345 lbs. Then I might consider moving him to LT and the rest of the pieces would fall into place easily.
we still have Shaud and Burns :couch:

[Mudflap1]

Yes, Shelton is not 'all world' by any means. And while I'd like to see an all world tackle with the Bills, getting a halfway decent tackle dirt cheap with a great line coach and some relatively decent talent around him isn't a terrible alternative, especially if the extra cap space leads to better talent on the football field.

Jon

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

Look at it this way....either we get Shelton with a 3 yr deal this year for Henry, or next year we get NOTHING. Henry is a FA in January. If Henry goes there, AZ could very well lose Henry after next season, so if you make the swap, and fast forward to next year, we still have a solid LT on the roster for two more years, and they either have to resign Henry or go RB shopping again.
In the long term view, the deal is much better for the Bills.

[Novacane]

make the trade

[HurryUpTom]

I don't want us to keep Henry this season.

The guy is a backup. If he's giving attitude then suspend him for the season if a trade can't be worked out.

[Mahdi]

Absolutely we keep Henry. Some team will have their starter hurt in training camps or preseason and we'll have a deal.
Even if some RB some where gets injured and that team is willing to deal for Henry they are not going to give us their LT. The fact is we dont have a LT. So if Green doesnt budge then we should deal Henry straight up. If nothing happens before the draft or on draft day then Donahoe will have lost the upper hand he currently has and will have to make the straight up trade.

[Mahdi]

The other thing is that on draft day Henry's value can go up significantly. Assuming Miami gets a second rounder for Surtain, and both Miami and SF grab QB's then they might be willing to trade their 2nd rounders for Henry.

[mysticsoto]

Look at it this way....either we get Shelton with a 3 yr deal this year for Henry, or next year we get NOTHING. Henry is a FA in January. If Henry goes there, AZ could very well lose Henry after next season, so if you make the swap, and fast forward to next year, we still have a solid LT on the roster for two more years, and they either have to resign Henry or go RB shopping again.
In the long term view, the deal is much better for the Bills.
That can depend...in the long term, if AZ makes the trade and just loses the 11 spots in Rd 2, they can address CB in rd 1 and get Rolle - a top CB, and maybe a top DT in rd 2.

They get 3 of their top needed positions handled. While we can move TT over to LT, move Tucker to Center, and then draft another Center to begin as backup since depth at Center is deep. Jason Peters is still being groomed for LT and when he's ready, he will need to "take it away" from TT. I think the potential that Peters shows is better than both TT and Shelton.

We won't get a chance at picking a top OT as there aren't many in this draft and none are projected to fall much into the 2nd rd. We can pick one to put on the PS and hope they develop, but I think the best situation is to put the effort into developing Peters who has the strength and speed, as well as athleticism to handle a speedy DE trying to get to JP.

[HurryUpTom]

That can depend...in the long term, if AZ makes the trade and just loses the 11 spots in Rd 2, they can address CB in rd 1 and get Rolle - a top CB, and maybe a top DT in rd 2.

They get 3 of their top needed positions handled. While we can move TT over to LT, move Tucker to Center, and then draft another Center to begin as backup since depth at Center is deep. Jason Peters is still being groomed for LT and when he's ready, he will need to "take it away" from TT. I think the potential that Peters shows is better than both TT and Shelton.

We won't get a chance at picking a top OT as there aren't many in this draft and none are projected to fall much into the 2nd rd. We can pick one to put on the PS and hope they develop, but I think the best situation is to put the effort into developing Peters who has the strength and speed, as well as athleticism to handle a speedy DE trying to get to JP.
What potential has Peters shown? He couldn't block in college and I thought he played primarily special teams and TE this season. He's a physical freak, but there's a lot more involved in playing OT than that.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

What potential has Peters shown? He couldn't block in college and I thought he played primarily special teams and TE this season. He's a physical freak, but there's a lot more involved in playing OT than that.
Where did you hear that Peters couldn't block in college? From the reports that I read prior to last year's draft, Peters went to Arkansas as a DT, was switched to TE, then to OT for a season, then was moved back to TE where he played next to S.Andrews (who was a 1st Round pick) as Arkansas used a "Jumbo" formation to run behind. According to those reports--which included a segment on CNN sports prior to the draft--Peters' strength was his blocking and there were many scouts who felt that he would be converted into a LT in the pros.

According to the articles that came out of the Bills camp prior to last season, the coaches were intrigued by Peters' potential at TE, but he was very raw--not coming out of a very sophisticated passing attack at Arkansas--and had problems with his techniques and in getting off of the line of scrimmage. According to those same reports, Peters, who is not very bright, was having problems learning how to play the position--which was why he did not make the club at the beginning of the season and was signed to the PS. According to a story that appeared at about mid-season (check the BZ archives), Peters went to Coach McNally while he was on the PS and volunteered to work with the offensive line and continued to work with them until Campbell and Euhus were injured and he was moved back to TE because the Bills needed more depth there. It was at that point that he began to be activated for games and played on the special teams, where he blocked and recovered a punt for a TD.

The question with Peters is not his physical ability, but whether he has the mental capacity to learn how to play the position effectively. This is reflected in quotes from the article about the Bills switching Peters and Bannan to the offensive line posted in a previous thread (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=68500):

""He is about as athletic as you can get from a pure physical standpoint at the position," said Mularkey. "He just needs to bring his technique and awareness up to that level." "Everything will take time, but he certainly has athletic ability and is a good raw prospect to work with," said McNally. "There is definitely upside." "

""If the two of them pan out it would represent nice depth or perhaps something greater, I don't know," said Mularkey. "We'll see how far and how fast they can come along." "

Obviously, you are correct in saying that there is more to playing OT than just physical talent, but just as obviously the Bills coaches feel that Peters has the raw athletic potential to play the position--if he can learn what he needs to learn in order to do so, which will determine how far and how fast he can come along. And, while I doubt that Peters will suddenly morph into a Pro Bowl LT overnight because offensive linemen take time to develop, that does not mean that he doesn't have the potential to develop into a solid player or more on the offensive line with time. Here's a guy who, for all of his physical ability, has been jerked around from position to position and has never really had the chance to settle in to any one position long enough to learn how to play it--which can definitely be a problem for any player, let alone a guy who admittedly "isn't the brightest bulb on the tree".

Peters has one season in college and half a season in the pros working with Coach McNally at OT. It would be unfair to expect him to be as accomplished as someone who has played the position for four or more years, but why not wait and see what Coach McNally is able to to do with him before writing him off completely?

[Jan Reimers]

I think a straight up trade is very fair. Shelton is a former 1st round pick who has been a starter most of his career, but lost his job when he got in Dennis Green's dog house. Henry is a former 2nd round pick who has been a starter most of his career, but lost his job to a more talented player.

I tend to think that - after all the posturing - the deal will get done straight up.

[The_Philster]

actually, LifeTimeBillsFan...Peters' strength when he got here was the receiving aspect of being a TE...blocking was his weakness...most would assume that meant his blocking was weak in college as well

[jamze132]

I'm kind of leaning toward keeping TH. The one thing I want made clear is that Shelton isn't this awesome LT that is going to solve all our worries at that position. He is an average LT and nothing else. TH is an above average back with 2 back to back 1300+ yard seasons. And we already know that TH will play hurt, has heart, etc, etc. Yeah, he's a little pissed, but he knows that any chance he gets to play and be in the game, he's got to make the best of it if he wants a good contract next year. So all this b*tching and whining is just him venting frustration.

Now, Shelton's contract is good for 3 years I think (or is it 4) and at $3 Million a year, that's a good price. But again, he may not end up staying at the position if he's "just average". Jason Peters is being groomed for the position. And the question comes down to - how fast can he be ready? That's something that TD needs to consult McNally with and a conversation we will not have access to.

But in truth, I won't be too terribly upset either way. I will understand if we trade TH in a player for player way. Somehow, I don't think that is TD's way though. If he doesn't get something out of it that he thinks it is worth - I don't think he'll do it...

My real "this can only happen in a dream" ideal situation would be for MW to get on a diet and strong workout program and come into camp in the best shape he's ever been in - and maybe between 330-345 lbs. Then I might consider moving him to LT and the rest of the pieces would fall into place easily.
You forgot to mention that Travis slept with underage girls. :fury:

[feelthepain]

Like I said before if it is stright up player for player TD can't make the trade. It would be to much of a loss for the Bills. Just because the Cards aren't division rivals doesn't make it ok to give them a deal. Keeping Henry would be the smart choice because it's to easy to lose players to injury and Henry is a 1500 yrd back. It's hard to believe he would be a backup but thats a good thing for Bill fans. Keep him one more year and see what happens thats whats best for your team.