I've been digging into the Henry trade scenarios

[clumping platelets]

I think the Tampa Bay scenario makes a ton of sense and this is why.....

Speculation has the Bucs looking to draft QB Alex Smith. They are talking with the Fins about moving from #5 to #2. One way to facilitate this is to trade for Travis Henry before the draft. The Bills need to get value for Travis, so I propose the following deal, which gives the Bills that value, Bucs a #1 RB and more favorably position to trade up for QB Smith.


Bucs and Bills: Bills send RB Henry and #55 to Bucs for CB Barber and #71. Deal includes cond 06 that can be pick to Bucs/pick to Bills/swap of picks. This deal makes sense from a number of perspectives:

1) Gives Bucs cap relief to sign draft picks: Bucs are only about $1 million under cap, so they will need to find some cap space to sign draft choices. This deal frees up about $1.5 million. Bills would need to lower his 2005 cap number to make the deal.

2) Bucs get the #1 RB workhorse RB: Travis would be listed as the starter with Charlie Garner as the #2 and 3rd down back. Pittman would likely be let go after June 1st.

3) Bills use asset to acquire starting caliber CB: With Clements slated to be UFA, K. Thomas also UFA, and McGee RFA....CB could be a major headache. Acquiring Barber, who was listed as a possible cap casualty, would give the Bills a solid CB opposite Nate and allow McGee to continue developing as a lead CB. That would give the Bills incredible depth at CB and allow the defense to better match up against a team like NE and hedge against FA after 2005 season

4) Deal positions TB better for trade up: They would move from 3,71 to 2,55, solve the RB situation, and be able to send #36 to Miami as part of a deal to move up to #2. Bucs have been rumored as being interested in K Mike Nugent. They would have a better chance at #55 to pick him or move into position to pick him earlier in rd 2

5) Bills would move down into rd 3 with picks at #71 and #86. They could move back into rd 2 if they so choose to get a player they want, but likely would target DT Attiyah Ellison or BPA at #71

:cheers:

[tampabay25690]

I think the Tampa Bay scenario makes a ton of sense and this is why.....

Speculation has the Bucs looking to draft QB Alex Smith. They are talking with the Fins about moving from #5 to #2. One way to facilitate this is to trade for Travis Henry before the draft. The Bills need to get value for Travis, so I propose the following deal, which gives the Bills that value, Bucs a #1 RB and more favorably position to trade up for QB Smith.


Bucs and Bills: Bills send RB Henry and #55 to Bucs for CB Barber and #71. Deal includes cond 06 that can be pick to Bucs/pick to Bills/swap of picks. This deal makes sense from a number of perspectives:

1) Gives Bucs cap relief to sign draft picks: Bucs are only about $1 million under cap, so they will need to find some cap space to sign draft choices. This deal frees up about $1.5 million. Bills would need to lower his 2005 cap number to make the deal.

2) Bucs get the #1 RB workhorse RB: Travis would be listed as the starter with Charlie Garner as the #2 and 3rd down back. Pittman would likely be let go after June 1st.

3) Bills use asset to acquire starting caliber CB: With Clements slated to be UFA, K. Thomas also UFA, and McGee RFA....CB could be a major headache. Acquiring Barber, who was listed as a possible cap casualty, would give the Bills a solid CB opposite Nate and allow McGee to continue developing as a lead CB. That would give the Bills incredible depth at CB and allow the defense to better match up against a team like NE and hedge against FA after 2005 season

4) Deal positions TB better for trade up: They would move from 3,71 to 2,55, solve the RB situation, and be able to send #36 to Miami as part of a deal to move up to #2. Bucs have been rumored as being interested in K Mike Nugent. They would have a better chance at #55 to pick him or move into position to pick him earlier in rd 2

5) Bills would move down into rd 3 with picks at #71 and #86. They could move back into rd 2 if they so choose to get a player they want, but likely would target DT Attiyah Ellison or BPA at #71

:cheers:

I have no idea where the QB is coming from, reports this week in Tampa have stated that Tampa will PROBABLY draft Mike WIlliams so he can stay home and play......But of course this isnt 100%... I guess we will have to wait and see, to be honest since I have season Tix for the Bucs I would love to see Travis Henry a BUC!!!!!

[clumping platelets]

From ESPN Draft Rumor insider

Apr. 15 - The Bucs are operating as though they have a chance to get Utah quarterback Alex Smith if he drops to the second pick, according to John Clayton. The debate is whether to give up a second-round choice to move up from No. 5 to No. 2. Smith is the quarterback the Bucs want after seeing him work out last week. The Dolphins are studying him to be the No. 2 pick if they don't trade out. The Dolphins want draft choices. They can get one in the Patrick Surtain deal with the Chiefs, but they should get a better draft choice from the Bucs.
The second aspect to the Bucs' move to possibly get Smith is what they are doing at running back. The Bucs contacted the Bills about acquiring halfback Travis Henry. The Bucs might be willing to come up with the right player – not a draft choice – that would entice the Bills to make a trade. If the Bucs could acquire Alex Smith and Henry in two separate trades, they certainly would be big winners in this draft.


:couch:

[clumping platelets]

I have no idea where the QB is coming from, reports this week in Tampa have stated that Tampa will PROBABLY draft Mike WIlliams so he can stay home and play......But of course this isnt 100%... I guess we will have to wait and see, to be honest since I have season Tix for the Bucs I would love to see Travis Henry a BUC!!!!!


I've read that the Mike Williams talk is a smoke screen. They already have a guy like that in Michael Clayton.

[buffmaniac]

How old is Barber and what does his contract look like?

[ShadowHawk7]

How about Barber for TH straight up? That'd rock IMO.

[clumping platelets]

$3.75 million in 2005
$3.5 million in 2006

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12199

[Mr. Cynical]

I don't like this trade. I know what you are saying about Nate and our CB situation, but I think we need to address more immediate needs first- our OL. Whatever it takes to make our OL better needs to be #1 priority IMO. The only other immediate need I would put next to it is DE, and then maybe K.

[mysticsoto]

Personally, I don't like this trade either. I know it strengthens our defense (specifically our secondary), but then we drop until the 3rd to be able to make a pick. I much rather pick the best available player in the high 2nd. If we get someone like Matt Jones that can add to our offense and give JP another weapon - that'd be great!!! I tend to favor creating mismatches with personnel, and not many people can matchup well with Matt Jones. This was the same reason I liked Jason Peters as a TE - but now they've moved him. If Matt develops really well, he could be our future replacement for Moulds...

[NJFINSFAN1]

And then the Buccs trade Henry, there # 1 and # 2 to the Fins for our 2nd pick to take Smith!

And then the Bucc's trade Simms to the Browns for a 3rd or 4th round pick!

[clumping platelets]

Matt Jones is 2 yrs away from being a productive player.

Not many players in rd 2 can come in and make substantive contributions as rookies. Clearly, if the Bills felt Shelton solved the puzzle on the OL, undoubtedly, the deal would have been consummated already. The few OL prospects that could help us in 2005 will all likely be gone by #55. Both Baas and Spencer are moving up the draft boards and will be out of reach. I personally do not want to see a rookie protecting JP's blindside :yikes:

[Mr. Cynical]

Then make some kind of 3 way trade, i.e., get Barber and bundle him with something else to grab an OL. I agree that if Shelton was "all that", he would either a) been picked up by another team or b) been a Bill a long time ago. But either way, I really think we need to use TH as a way to improve the line, in one way or the other.

[donahoeisgod]

Matt Stinchcomb, their 1st round pick from 1999. He is still young (26-27) and according to the NFLPA website is signed for the nex few years at a reasonable price, including a $1.25 million base figure for 2005. And he could be plugged into the left tackle position.

[Mr. Miyagi]

And then the Buccs trade Henry, there # 1 and # 2 to the Fins for our 2nd pick to take Smith!

And then the Bucc's trade Simms to the Browns for a 3rd or 4th round pick!
What are you smoking? Henry + #1 + #2 for a rookie QB? :coocoo:

[mysticsoto]

Matt Stinchcomb, their 1st round pick from 1999. He is still young (26-27) and according to the NFLPA website is signed for the nex few years at a reasonable price, including a $1.25 million base figure for 2005. And he could be plugged into the left tackle position.
How good is he on a scale of 1-10 ???

[NJFINSFAN1]

What are you smoking? Henry + #1 + #2 for a rookie QB? :coocoo:
Ricky stopped by for a while, I didn't inhale, but sat in the tent with him for a while!:halo:

[Dicknoze69]

I actually really like this potential deal. It's not often you can get a sure-fire solid CB with a 2nd round pick. If it giving them our 2nd to do this, while we get their 3rd, it would rock.

Most 2nd round picks are either boom or bust. I'd rather take the bust factor out of the equation if at all possible.

[justasportsfan]

I don't like this trade. I know what you are saying about Nate and our CB situation, but I think we need to address more immediate needs first- our OL. Whatever it takes to make our OL better needs to be #1 priority IMO. The only other immediate need I would put next to it is DE, and then maybe K.Without a trading partner for Shelton, can we still afford to pick him up if the cards release him, Clump?

[clumping platelets]

Yes.....Bills will need to find some cap space to sign the draft picks once the rookie allocations are revealed a few days after the draft. But, if the Cards release him after June 1st, the TD could find the cap space to sign him.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I think the Tampa Bay scenario makes a ton of sense and this is why.....

Speculation has the Bucs looking to draft QB Alex Smith. They are talking with the Fins about moving from #5 to #2. One way to facilitate this is to trade for Travis Henry before the draft. The Bills need to get value for Travis, so I propose the following deal, which gives the Bills that value, Bucs a #1 RB and more favorably position to trade up for QB Smith.


Bucs and Bills: Bills send RB Henry and #55 to Bucs for CB Barber and #71. Deal includes cond 06 that can be pick to Bucs/pick to Bills/swap of picks. This deal makes sense from a number of perspectives:

1) Gives Bucs cap relief to sign draft picks: Bucs are only about $1 million under cap, so they will need to find some cap space to sign draft choices. This deal frees up about $1.5 million. Bills would need to lower his 2005 cap number to make the deal.

2) Bucs get the #1 RB workhorse RB: Travis would be listed as the starter with Charlie Garner as the #2 and 3rd down back. Pittman would likely be let go after June 1st.

3) Bills use asset to acquire starting caliber CB: With Clements slated to be UFA, K. Thomas also UFA, and McGee RFA....CB could be a major headache. Acquiring Barber, who was listed as a possible cap casualty, would give the Bills a solid CB opposite Nate and allow McGee to continue developing as a lead CB. That would give the Bills incredible depth at CB and allow the defense to better match up against a team like NE and hedge against FA after 2005 season

4) Deal positions TB better for trade up: They would move from 3,71 to 2,55, solve the RB situation, and be able to send #36 to Miami as part of a deal to move up to #2. Bucs have been rumored as being interested in K Mike Nugent. They would have a better chance at #55 to pick him or move into position to pick him earlier in rd 2

5) Bills would move down into rd 3 with picks at #71 and #86. They could move back into rd 2 if they so choose to get a player they want, but likely would target DT Attiyah Ellison or BPA at #71

:cheers:
Ubsurd

[ParanoidAndroid]

I don't think this is what the Bills need right now. Barber cannot be the player or there cannot be a bounce out of the second round. It doesn't make sense for Buffalo to take that cap hit for a player they don't need this year. I think Tampa would have to do better than that for their IMMEDIATE, PROVEN starting RB. The Bills will try to move up if anything, unless they find something that fills an immediate need. That deal would make me cringe.

[justasportsfan]

Yes.....Bills will need to find some cap space to sign the draft picks once the rookie allocations are revealed a few days after the draft. But, if the Cards release him after June 1st, the TD could find the cap space to sign him.So your trade scenario +Shelton is a possibility. :up:

However reports are starting to come out that they doubt the Bucs trade up w/ the fins for the 2nd pick because rumor is, Gruden wasn't impressed w/ either qb's plus they have their qb's signed. :idunno:

[ddaryl]

Doesn't anybody think the Bills might ask for Kenyatta Walker and a swap of 2nds from Tampa ?

[clumping platelets]

I hope not :ill:

[ShadowHawk7]

Matt Stinchcomb, their 1st round pick from 1999. He is still young (26-27) and according to the NFLPA website is signed for the nex few years at a reasonable price, including a $1.25 million base figure for 2005. And he could be plugged into the left tackle position.
Not a bad idea, how good is this guy?

[Ron C.]

Ultimately, IMHO it will be a trade of TH + our 4th round pick for Tampa's 2nd round pick. A win-win for both sides and we have a shot a Baas/E. Brown and DT/CB in the 2nd.

[Lone Stranger]

Clump, your scenario only makes sense if the Bills trade Clement maybe to Washington for their #1; otherwise I think we have too much $ tied up in cornerbacks. We have to concentrate on both sides of the line.

[tampabay25690]

I've read that the Mike Williams talk is a smoke screen. They already have a guy like that in Michael Clayton.

Yea but Clayton has come out in the media here in Tampa and asked for the Bucs to draft him, I still think he is staying here....

[Bert102176]

I've heard the Bucs may release Derrick Brooks do to his salery think they would wanna trade him for Henry, he's a big improvement over Posey, but I would really like their 2nd round pick, just wondering what ya all think

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Not a bad idea, how good is this guy?Here's some info on Stinchcomb from the Bucs website, including quotes from an article posted there when they signed him:

Matt Stinchcomb 78
Position: OL
Height: 6-6
Weight: 310
Birthdate: 6/3/1977
Experience: 7
College: Georgia
Hometown: Lilburn, GA
Acquired: FA-`04

Strong, versatile offensive lineman… Signed by the Buccaneers on March 5, 2004… Drafted in 1999 by the Raiders in the first round (18th overall)... Has played in 54 league games with 20 starts in five pro seasons… Has also played in six postseason games.

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2>"...Stinchcomb is a highly-regarded veteran with the versatility to play at several different spots on the offensive line. Stinchcomb also gives the Bucs’ front wall an instant infusion of size; at 6-6, 310 pounds, he immediately becomes the biggest lineman the team has.

</TD><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD width="60%">“Matt is another versatile addition to our offensive line,” said Buccaneers Head Coach Jon Gruden. “We are excited about what he will bring to the Buccaneers.”.....

Stinchcomb, who arrived in Tampa on Thursday, was clearly one of the Bucs’ primary targets in free agency. He is a known commodity to Gruden, who was the Raiders’ head coach in 1999 when the Georgia standout was drafted by Oakland in the first round. Though he lost his rookie season to a shoulder injury, Stinchcomb moved into the starting lineup in 2000, playing in all 16 games and opening nine. He started the first eight games at left tackle before re-injuring his shoulder. He was part of a Raiders line that blocked for the league’s top rushing offense, an attack that produced 154.4 yards per game on the ground.

Stinchcomb was thrilled to be reunited with his first head coach.

“This is a great opportunity for me,” he said. “I am excited to be back with Coach Gruden and to work with (Offensive Coordinator/Offensive Line) Coach Bill Muir.”

Stinchcomb was primarily a reserve in 2001, making one start at left tackle. The following year he started six games at left guard as the Raiders advanced to Super Bowl XXXVII against Gruden and the Buccaneers. In that final game, Stinchcomb saw action as an extra tight end on the offensive line on short-yardage downs.

Stinchcomb was taking on a greater role for the Raiders in 2003 before he was struck by a shoulder injury again. He won an intense training camp battle with Adam Treu for the starting center job and eventually played in six games and made four starts, three at center and one at left guard. He was placed on injured reserve on November 12.

At Georgia, Stinchcomb was a four-year letterwinner and a two-time All-American, as well as a two-time Academic All-American. He hails from Lilburn, Georgia."

Stinchcomb was a monster in college and extremely highly regarded when he was drafted. I had wondered what happened to him because he was a guy who looked like a "can't miss" prospect. It appears that shoulder injuries have been a real problem for him and have kept him from becoming the kind of player that he was expected to be.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>His injury history would really concern me. As would his relative lack of experience starting at LT--although he has shown a lot of versatility thus far in his career. Considering his injuries and the fact that he has bounced around a lot, I'm not sure that the Bills would be getting any greater value in Stinchcomb for T.Henry than they would be getting in LJ Shelton at this stage. If he hadn't been hurt so much, I would love to see the Bills get a guy like Stinchcomb, but his injury history would make him too much of a risk in my opinion.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Initially, I really liked the idea of trading T.Henry for R.Barber because of the fact that N.Clements, K.Thomas and T.McGee will all be FAs of one type or the other next season. But, then, I remembered that Ronde and Tiki Barber both graduated from high school in the same class as my niece, who just turned 30, did. So, I checked with the Bucs website and, sure enough, Ronde just turned 30 years of age. Here's some of the info that they have on him:

Ronde Barber 20
Position: CB
Height: 5-10
Weight: 184
Birthdate: 4/7/1975
Experience: 9
College: Virginia
Hometown: Roanoke, VA
Acquired: D3b-`97

Cemented his reputation as one of the NFL’s finest all-around cornerbacks... Premier cover corner on one of the league’s best defenses... Started in every game at right cornerback as a key defensive playmaker for the Super Bowl XXXVII champion Tampa Bay Buccaneers... Named to his second consecutive All-Pro Team in 2002 (second team)... Also earned first-team honors in 2001... Was named the NFL Alumni Defensive Back of the Year in 2001... Posted a career-high 10 INTs in 2001, which tied him for first in the NFL and also marked a Buccaneers’ single-season record... Ranks fifth on the club’s all-time list with 20 interceptions... Outstanding coverage skills have opponents apprehensive of throwing in his direction... Exceptional technique and footwork has helped him stop the game’s top receivers... Is responsible for covering the slot receiver in Tampa Bay’s nickel package... Strong tackler who is equally adept at stopping the run... Tenacious worker on the practice field and in film study... Strong work habits enabled him to work way up the depth chart and become a full-time starter in 1998... Finished with a career-high 111 tackles in 2003, setting a new single season record for most tackles by a CB (Jeris White, 103 in 1978)…..

With several key members of the Bills' defense beginning to "get up there in age", I'm not sure that it would be a great idea for the Bills D to get older. The Bills would have to replace R.Barber in a couple of years--without any chance of getting any compensation for him--and this season he would take away a roster space that could be filled by a young CB that they could spend the season developing to step in as a replacement for one of their free agents to be next season.

If the Bills were certain that they were going to make a serious SB run this season it might be worth bringing R.Barber in for a couple of seasons, but, with a first year starter at QB, they are probably still a year or two away from being there and there's no telling how much R.Barber's abilities will have deteriorated by then. I'd rather try to keep N.Clements and draft a CB that can be developed to possibly replace him.