PDA

View Full Version : Where the O-Line Stands Today.....IMHO



Hamilton Billsfan
04-15-2005, 07:57 PM
First off, I would like to Thank Clumping Platelets for his hard work in gathering and maintaining the Cap Page, it is an extremely valuable resource to track potential changes to the team and give the fan an insight to how a player is weighted and valued. It also allows amateurs like me to crunch some numbers, like on my favorite part of the team, the Offensive Line!

From Clump’s numbers, and from Ourlads.com depth chart, on paper, today’s starting line-up and salaries look like this,

LT Gandy $ 995 000
LG Anderson 1 050 000
C Teague 3 625 000
RG Villarrial 2 993 750
RT Williams 9 813 764

And the 2nd string back-ups are,

LT McFarland 319 150
LG Smith 386 500
C Tucker 710 000
RG Sobieski 305 000
RT Pruce 230 000

And 3rd stringers left are,

LG Esposito 230 000
RG Bannon 590 000
RT Peters 305 000

These 13 players earn a total $21,247,164 and the top 10 earn $20,482,162 of the adjusted salary cap of$85,722,000 for an avg. of $2,048,216 per player. Also, these 10 players account for 23.9% of the cap. Any 10 players on a 53 man roster represents 18.9%. The average for any player on a 53 man roster is $1,634,397.so any 10 player would receive $16,343,970 theoretically
.
I’ve formatted it this way so one is able to refer quickly to what I’m talking about.

IMHO, Traditional NFL teams usually have 9 or10 members on the O-Line and a long snapper on the Game roster. I have not included Dorenbos or Gomez as they are not important to my discussion.

One could make some obvious conclusions about the above numbers such as the O-Line receives a larger part for the available funds in the cap and a larger than expected percentage of the cap for the unit as a whole. For a number of reasons I don’t think it would be wise to point to Mike Williams as the sole cause for this situation. I’m not sure if Williams contract has been re-negotiated yet as was rumored here on this board or whether Clump managed to include the new numbers on his April 12-05 update. That being said, IMHO, I have made some other conclusions;

1) The O-Line has not been neglected by management for lack of trying to find and sign quality players,
2) The numbers show a solid depth available on the O-Line as opposed to having many cheap and inexperienced players for back-up
3) There are an excess of natural guards on the roster, 7 when I expect the team to only keep 4 and perhaps convert 1 to a tackle
4) The line looks to be a great place to create some cap room if needed for a number of reasons! One reason could be if Shelton came to Buffalo, someone in the top 10 would have to be cut.

I cannot tell the future. Obviously the draft will bring 1 or 2 more O-Line players and then there is the Henry trade which could bring another to the O-Line. In addition, the Team may sign more free agents.

Each player we have now have their own story, advantages, strengths and weaknesses. A great example is Peters. He has a reputation of being very quick and agile for a player of his size. Hopefully the time spent on the PR last year has allowed him learn and to move from his TE position in College to a position on the O-Line in the future. We all like the versatility He can bring to the team.

Devin
04-15-2005, 08:06 PM
Gandy at LT? Hes a guard and a backup at that.

Its probably more like:

Teague-Anderson-Tucker-Villerial-Williams

Romes
04-15-2005, 08:12 PM
Gandy at LT? Hes a guard and a backup at that.

Its probably more like:

Teague-Anderson-Tucker-Villerial-Williams

Actually, at the draft luncheon TD said that Gandy is working at LT. He never mentioned Gandy at LG or RG. What he said about Teague is that they may consider him at LT but he is still working with McNally at C.

So Hamilton is right with his current depth chart.

Here is a link to the audio if you want to listen for yourself.

http://www.buffalobills.com/player/?FILE_300=http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/bills/demand/audio/041105draftlunch.rm&proto=rtsp

Devin
04-15-2005, 08:16 PM
Gandy is an OG, they maybe working with him at LT, but no one is ******ed enough to start him there.

TD has also stated numerous times that Teague is the leading option at LT (what he played in Denver).

Its only been posted here a dozen times ill dig it up.

Michael82
04-15-2005, 09:23 PM
Gandy is an OG, they maybe working with him at LT, but no one is ******ed enough to start him there.

TD has also stated numerous times that Teague is the leading option at LT (what he played in Denver).

Its only been posted here a dozen times ill dig it up.
Apparently, McNally is "******ed" enough to start him there and I trust his opinion more than a fan's. :::

Devin
04-15-2005, 09:39 PM
K Mikey :yap:

Hamilton Billsfan
04-15-2005, 10:15 PM
I'm sorry, I didn't want to cause a controversy about who starts where!

I used the depth chart from Ourlads and that's where each player is shown today. No one should expect that this would be the starting line-up come September. There are still trades, the draft, other possible F/A signings and training camp that will change the situation and determine who plays where and who stays or who gets cut.
Gandy was one of the natural guards I mentioned but he has some playing time at tackle. IMHO that is why Ourlad's listed him at LT, not because I want him there. If anybody wants to know who I really want and where.......

Devin
04-15-2005, 10:36 PM
Thanks Hamilton, your post was very informative and I wasnt discounting it all.

I was just stating what I had heard about Gandy. No one is right about anything as you stated the lineup will change.

Mikey just hops in occasionally cause he doesnt know any better ;)

LifetimeBillsFan
04-16-2005, 04:25 AM
Gandy is an OG, they maybe working with him at LT, but no one is ******ed enough to start him there.

TD has also stated numerous times that Teague is the leading option at LT (what he played in Denver).

Its only been posted here a dozen times ill dig it up.
Sorry, Devin, but apparently Coach McNally isn't the only one who is "******ed enough to start" Gandy at LT. Here's a portion of Gandy's bio from BuffaloBills.com:

2003:
Started career-high 14 games at LT, including the first 13 of the season, while missing 2 games to injury ... Made first career opening-day start at SF (9/7) ... Made 24th consecutive start at GB (12/7), but left game in 4th qtr. due to shoulder injury ... Inactive Games 14-15 due to shoulder injury, but returned to start season finale at KC (12/28).

2002:
Made his NFL debut for the Bears 4 weeks into the season and went on to establish himself as a starter at 2 different positions over the final 11 games of the campaign ... Started at LG Games 6-10 before moving to LT for Games 11-16 ... Inactive for the first 2 games before being active for the first time in his career vs. NO (9/22); active but DNP ... Made NFL debut at BUF (9/29) on special teams ... Subbed for injured LG Rex Tucker vs. GB (10/7) ... Took over starting LG position with first NFL start at DET (10/20) ... Moved to LT when Marc Colombo was lost for the year to injury and made first career start at the position vs. DET (11/24) after never having played the position before at any level during his career

I am not familiar with Gandy or how well he played LT for the Bears--indeed, I'm not sure that the fact that he was a starter for the Bears in 2002 or 2003 is much of an endorsement of his abilities, given how their QBs have been abused by opposing defenses the last couple of years--but the fact remains that Gandy actually has twice as much experience as a starting LT than as a starter at OG (20 starts at LT to 10 starts at LG).

Personally, I think that Gandy was signed by the Bills to replace M.Price as a "swing man" who could be a younger back-up at OT or OG. However, given his experience at LT, it is possible that the Bills intend to let him compete with T.Teague for the starting LT job--perhaps while they see if J.Peters is able to develop quickly enough to take over at that position.

It's hard to tell what the Bills are actually looking to do with their offensive line this season, but, if you look at the article that I refer to in my post about offensive line coaches, etc. (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=69656), one of the most illuminating parts of the article is the part that says that Coach McNally is one of those offensive line coaches who does not want any high draft choices, but prefers to develop offensive linemen that he selects later on in the draft. Most coaches in his position know what they are looking for in a player and have a "book" on the players that they have evaluated at various times that have the qualities that they feel will make a player successful in their own system. I don't know what McNally thinks Gandy or Teague are capable of doing in his system. But, at least according to that article, McNally is not a coach who necessarily is looking for the best player at a given position that he can get, but rather is looking for players that will will fit into his system and do what he wants his players to do at that position. Now that's something that we Bills fans may not understand or may find frustrating, but, if that's the way he works, we're going to have to get used to it because he is the one coaching the Bills' offensive line right now and is telling the FO what he wants. And, he has been pretty successful doing things that way for a long time now--even if we have not yet had a chance to see him produce that kind of success with the Bills yet.

We'll just have to wait and see what the offensive line that he produces with the Bills this year will look like on opening day and how it progresses over the course of the season. At this point, anything else that we may think or say will be nothing more than sheer speculation.

Jan Reimers
04-16-2005, 09:13 AM
No matter how you slice and dice it, we still need a starting LT. I think Gandy will be a nice backup at both tackles, ala Marcus Price. The rest of our depth is decent, as well. I would still like to see Shelton here, working with McNally to become a quality player.

ScottLawrence
04-16-2005, 10:26 AM
Either way Teague or Gandy at LT, I don't like it.

Both have played the position and both have struggled at it.


Draft a LT with our first selection, or trade for Shelton.

Devin
04-16-2005, 10:27 AM
Thank you.

DynaPaul
04-16-2005, 10:30 AM
They're listing Gandy at LT so it appears that we don't need Shelton.

Mr. Cynical
04-16-2005, 01:27 PM
No matter how you slice and dice it, we still need a starting LT.
Yep. And this will be the offense's undoing if it is not corrected before the season starts. Mark my words.