Interesting; Kelly v. Bledsoe!

[WG]

All week long from varying sources we've heard about how Bledsoe has surpassed Kelly's attempts record and with three more yards will surpass kelly's team yardage record of the '91 season.

Here's what's interesting:

My first thought was "big deal" b/c yardage doesn't mean squat w/o some points associated with them. That doesn't appear to bother too many others however.

By season's end, Bledsoe should have near 1,000 more passing yards than Kelly's best ever, possibly more.

But what has he done w/ those yards.

W/ 3,844 yards on 474 attempts, Kelly had 33 TDs. That's 1 TD per 14 attempts.

Drew is on pace to finish w/ well over 600 attempts averaging 40 per game. Extrapolated, that would be 630 attempts. He's averaging 1.3 TDs/game over the last 7 games. So 27 TDs +/- is to be expected. He can also be expected to throw for 900 more yards giving him 4,700 total on the season.

Given that, he would have 1 TD per 23 attempts.

Just some food for thought for anyone who believes that simply passing for yardage is any sort of milestone apart from everything else. Efficiency should certainly fit in there somewhere and it clearly doesn't seem to matter.

For Kelly, his numbers reflected one TD for every 116 yards passed for. For Drew, it would represent 1 TD for every 174 yards passed for. Even with his current totals, it's 1 TD for every 167 yards.

Additionally, Henry will do better than Thurman did both in rushing yardage and in TDs and Drew's had far superior WRs than Jim did.

Just some food for thought prior to the game on Sunday sparked by the curiosity at all the hoopla over "attempts" and "team record passing yardage" marks.

In any case, it does make a strong point that yardage apart from TDs is meaningless. Since Bledsoe career accolades are focused almost exclusively around his 'yardage' totals, I found it interesting.

:D

[mybills]

This coming from the "stats guy" lol

I have never retained stats because I never saw a reason to. What you've said here, basically means the same as what I had mentioned about McNabb & Bledsoe before. Which QB has more passing #'s and which one can score more points? I'll stick with the more points scored, thanks! ;)

[WG]

Not sure what your point was my. I always lean towards points and production vice simply yardage. Yardage can, and has, accumulated for many teams/players over the years and not necessarily yielded points/production.

I'm of the opinion that the current team rankings should be done either via scoring stats or by some combination, but to use strictly yardage regarding how good an offense/defense is doesn't say nearly enough.

I'll take the points as well, but you are in the minority then.

[mackey789]

WYS, you will never stop critisizing until we win the superbowl. Look at the positives! Out of the basement teams from 01' we are the most improved. We have 12 million to spend next season. i GUARANTEE that we will be contending for the superbowl next year. Drew is the best thing that has happened to us in years. Also, contrary to your beliefs, when we get a defense, we will win MANY more games. Our D sucks so bad...worste ive seen here since the mid 80's.

[WG]

Look, if we start the season next year offensively the way that we're starting to finish it this season, then you won't be happy either and if you say you are you'd be lying. We're averaging less than 20 points per game to close out the year unless something changes.

I don't know why you and everyone else keeps saying that we're so improved? If we lose our last three, which we'll essentially find out tomorrow, then I would totally disagree w/ you. We made more moves than any of the other teams, but given what we've done, our O should be incredible and instead we're scraping the bottom of the bucket lately, for 7 weeks. A couple of big/lucky plays, 4 to be exact, and we're really horrible offensively speaking.

We've not been playing well, period. To say we are or to be happy w/ this level of play would be reprensible.

Let's see how our O does tomorrow.

BTW, if you mean basement teams being Carolina and Detroit, then I'm not all that impressed. Indy was 6-10 and is now headed for 10-6 possibly. We were 3-13 and were all banged up w/ injuries for most of last season, and this year, w/ a far better team, w/ virtually no key injuries at all, we may win only what, 3 more games, looking like 4 if we're lucky?

That to me doesn't mean a tremendously improved team. Sorry. It shouldn't to anyone else either. I have no idea why it does. 6-10 blows. 7-9 given the changes and reversal of fortunes w/ injuries shouldn't impress anyone either. Especially since we're not even scoring as many points against weak Ds as we did in many games last season.

I cannot disagree w/ you more. If we only finish 6-10, then IMO that means something is dearly wrong with the team from the coaching to the onfield performances, barring no one.

[mybills]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Not sure what your point was my. I always lean towards points and production vice simply yardage. Yardage can, and has, accumulated for many teams/players over the years and not necessarily yielded points/production.

I'm of the opinion that the current team rankings should be done either via scoring stats or by some combination, but to use strictly yardage regarding how good an offense/defense is doesn't say nearly enough.

I'll take the points as well, but you are in the minority then.

My point is (hypothetically speaking of course) that Drew can throw 10,000 yds and win 2 games, &
McNabb can throw 2,000 yds and win 10 games. Stats don't mean crap to an average fan, but the wins do mean a lot.

Sure, stats may mean something to owners/coaches/recruiters, but do you really think that tons of football fans who want the wins are the <b>minority</b>?
I don't understand that comment at all. :scratch:

[WG]

Well, I'm with ya on being somewhat perplexed. Fans seem to want to see Drew throw the ball more or are content w/ how much he's been throwing it even though we're 4-2 when Henry gets 19+ carries and 2-5 when he has 15 or fewer.

So the logical question then becomes why isn't he getting more carries? Right?

Some will say it's been b/c we've been behind and have had to throw. While that may have been true in a couple of losses, it certianly hasn't been true in most of them. Unless of course you would consider a 10 point lead in the first half insurmountable and requiring the virtual complete abandonment of the entire rushing game. Besides, the reason that we've been behind in at least two games is b/c Drew essentially put us there. Not the D.

That then beckens the question, OK, so who's at fault for passing too much? It can only be one or a combination of three people, right? Gilbride, Bledsoe, or GW.

If it's GW, then he's really the "brains" behind this offense and Gilbride has served absolutely no purpose thus far. Given the hype at his signing and the suggestions that he'll get the most out of Drew, blah, blah, blah..., and given his experience, I doubt that's true.

That leaves Gilbride or Bledsoe. Gilbride in that he's the one calling the offensive plays. Or Bledsoe if he's audibling so freqently as to nullify a significant amount of rushing plays thus allowing himself to throw more and Henry to run less.

I don't know Drew that well personally as I'm sure few of us do. But he does not strike me as the type to do a lot of usurping of a coaches authority. He also doesn't strike me as an egotistical kind of guy. I may be wrong, but he strikes me as the opposite. Someone who prefers winning to personal accolades, so I dont' think he's doing that. JMO however. Maybe he's an egotistical SOB.

Anyway, since he doesn't call most of his own plays, they must be coming in. That then would seem to be from Gilbride one way or another then. Right?

It's that simple. There are no other options. People blame the OL when many of his INTs have been w/ plenty of time and he's had many incompletions on plays on which I've seen him stand in the pocket for what seems like an eternity. It's not the OL, at least not largely. And if it is, then let's run more, b/c Henry's running on par w/ Thomas' best season. So if the OL can run block but not pass block, then WTH are doing passing so much when we don't have to? Right?

But what's happening is that people are giving the two people who should bear the greatest responsibility for the offense's performance, a total pass. It simply makes no sense.

So what I think is that people seem to believe, as stated over and over again, that our best chances for winning are "when Bledsoe throws the ball" and even as stated by our own coaches when the facts, as provided above, absolutely speak to the contrary. Our best chances of winning are when Henry gets the carries. I would also love to be able to say that Bledsoe's had his best games then too, but that simply isn't and hasn't been the case, except for the last Miami game. Meanwhile, the only game that Bledsoe's had a good game and the Bills beat a good team was against Miami this last go 'round. Bledsoe hasn't had a good game against a decent team that we've beaten other than that game.

So what does that tell us our chances of winning are greatest with?

Cordially!

;)

[casdhf]

Who cares if the offense is scoring 20, if the defense is only give up 10? Again, who cares if the offense is scoring 35 while the defense gives up 40? The only thing that matters are the W's and the L's. Stats are for losers, loser :D

[mybills]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Fans seem to want to see Drew throw the ball more or are content w/ how much he's been throwing it

I want to see him throw it when he's holding onto it too long. lol

They do need to use more of the running game, but the need wouldn't be that great if Drew learned to scope the field better.
Seriously, he seesms to have mental horse blinds on. There's a QB (I forget who) that uses special glasses during practice, that are designed to force you to see more of the field. Maybe Drew should get a pair! :evil:

[WG]

Originally posted by mybills


I want to see him throw it when he's holding onto it too long. lol

They do need to use more of the running game, but the need wouldn't be that great if Drew learned to scope the field better.
Seriously, he seesms to have mental horse blinds on. There's a QB (I forget who) that uses special glasses during practice, that are designed to force you to see more of the field. Maybe Drew should get a pair! :evil:

Well, here's the kicker; we all knew, or should have known what Drew was like. I did largely b/c I used to watch him at every opportunity to torment my Pats fan bud. :D

Anyway, for those who knew him, he hasn't changed a lick. He still throws off of his back foot in a panic. That's what's caused many of the INTs this season. He's actually been very fortunate that several others have been dropped. He doesn't always scope the field well which was the same in N.E. He struggles agianst the better teams which he did in N.E.

We have here what he was there. To hope for something else is foolish. If he were 24, then perhaps. But not at 30.

We'll be fine as long as we change our game to run Henry first and quit panicking just b/c we're down by 10 points w/ 40 minutes of football left to play. I've never seen anything like that except from Gilbride. He just won't make that switch. I don't know why not. I only know his track record. If he prefers to pass w/ Leaf and Kordell Stewart, then that sure isn't going to change for Drew. I wonder how good he really is since other than the Oilers early on and in a bizarre offense, he has never lasted more than 2 seasons w/ any team.

[DIHARD2]

How many years did the 91 Kelly offensive team played together, as compared to this year's Bledsoe team. What kind of defense and how long did the Kelly defense played together as compared to the ragtag group we have this year.

Anyone who's ever play sports knows what I'm about to say is true.

The only way anyone who plays any sports can get good at what they do is practice, even more so for a team sport practicing together.

The plays for a passing attack is a timing system and unfortunately we have been 1/10 of a second slower than our opponents off the ball. The only time that can be practice in a true form is when you're playing in a game. We know that we can run Henry all day by you will not have a Super Bowl caliber team on the offense side of the ball with just running.

The smartest thing are coaching staff can do is take the heat, and keep practicing coming off the ball in a game situation and learn how to protect Bledsoe. IMO, it's going to take time and I believe, the beginning of the next season are team will be up to that standard. By then they will be able to tell their opponent what play they're going to do and execute it efficiently.

Our coaching staff knows that we did not have the players long enough together as a team to be playoff caliber they also know we do not have the defense. What I have seen this year is a team practicing and trying to become proficient in all phases of the offense, and next year the defense will be in that position, and anyone who knows football knows that the defense as a team gels together quicker.

The comparing Bledsoe vs. Kelly cannot be done until Bledsoe has been playing under center with a team that has had the same amount of time together as an offensive unit that Kelly had the privilege of having.

After saying this, I believe once this team has had this time together, you will see Bledsoe's passing record go down and you will see a more balanced running passing offense but you'll also see points being put up on the board every time or almost every time we have the ball.

All of us who have complained about the coach and him not playing the run enough we should be ashamed of ourselves.

This coaching staff has been doing the right thing and that is practicing our pass plays for next year when we do have something that resembles a defense.

Unfortunately there really isn't any other way to practice a game situation in the NFL except those 16 games you get before the playoffs start. And each game is going to make you better. If you remember they protected Bledsoe better this last game aganst New England then they did the first one.

In this type of situation you're going to lose some and you're going to win some, and I know there hasn't been anyone who won every game they played in, their first year in any sport. Usually that first year is you're learning year. There has been exceptions but very few and far between.

And those who had a winning high school football team that they played on their first year, usually they're coming in on a team that consists of seniors, or they had coming up with a group that they themselves have played together a couple a years on JV.

GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...

[THATHURMANATOR]

What a joke!!!!!!!!!!! WYS I love ya buddy but sometimes you make me laugh.... what exactly do you want drew to do??? He IMHO has played great this season aside from last game SO GET OFF HIS BACK..... You honestly might be one of the most negative people I have ever been in contact with.

[DIHARD2]

THATHURMANATOR, I'm actually developing an WYS anti-negativity charm, that I'm going to sell to all those who want to ward off WYS negativity. So once I get it developed, would you be interested in buying one? LoL how many do you think I can sell on this board? LoL NO Zone Bucks/ USA cash only. LoL

J/K WYS

GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...

[WG]

Originally posted by DIHARD2
The plays for a passing attack is a timing system and unfortunately we have been 1/10 of a second slower than our opponents off the ball. The only time that can be practice in a true form is when you're playing in a game. We know that we can run Henry all day by you will not have a Super Bowl caliber team on the offense side of the ball with just running.

The smartest thing are coaching staff can do is take the heat, and keep practicing coming off the ball in a game situation and learn how to protect Bledsoe. IMO, it's going to take time and I believe, the beginning of the next season are team will be up to that standard. By then they will be able to tell their opponent what play they're going to do and execute it efficiently.

Our coaching staff knows that we did not have the players long enough together as a team to be playoff caliber they also know we do not have the defense. What I have seen this year is a team practicing and trying to become proficient in all phases of the offense, and next year the defense will be in that position, and anyone who knows football knows that the defense as a team gels together quicker.

The comparing Bledsoe vs. Kelly cannot be done until Bledsoe has been playing under center with a team that has had the same amount of time together as an offensive unit that Kelly had the privilege of having.

I love you guys too. ;) You think I'm negative, I think I'm being just realistic in this situation. Given what you're saying is fine. However, then the offense should have improved by now. Why is that all that difficult to see. DH says it takes time. Really. How come the best games were up front then? And given that, if what you're saying is true, and the first bunch of games don't really count, then correspondingly, shouldn't we then be saying we really don't have a #6 offense, but a #24 or so??

Here's the problem, what DH has said in this quote makes no sense and is not supported historically or factually. Sure, it's nice to say and hope for, but what is the basis for that hope??

Eg., "We know that we can run Henry all day by you will not have a Super Bowl caliber team on the offense side of the ball with just running."

True. But you certainly aren't going to have a SB caliber team on the offensive side of the ball with just passing. Yet, that's essentially exactly what we've done in 8 of 13 games. Secondly, it's also what Kevin Gilbride's teams have done for as long as he's been coaching. So apparently you guys are expecting this leopard to change its spots to stripes, eh?!? Not me. There's not a single indicator under the sun that suggests Gilbride will change that! Even given the current albeit minor, wave of media criticism for 5 weeks that he doesn't run enough, he still hasn't made changes.

Eg., "The smartest thing are coaching staff can do is take the heat, and keep practicing coming off the ball in a game situation and learn how to protect Bledsoe."

What if it's not the OL? What if it's Bledsoe? We've seen Drew w/ plenty of time sittin' back there polishing his nails on occasion still take a sack or two b/c he doesn't find a receiver. We know he misses things and that he's not mobile. They said for years that the N.E. line was only good at run blocking. Could it possibly be that it's Drew since the same is now being said here?

Eg., "Our coaching staff knows that we did not have the players long enough together as a team to be playoff caliber they also know we do not have the defense. What I have seen this year is a team practicing and trying to become proficient in all phases of the offense,..."

Our defense, while you may not want to admit it, does not excuse nor explain why the O cannot put the ball into the endzone nor why it struggles in the red zone. It simply doesn't. There's nothing else to say there. D has to do w/ field position and that alone. After that, the O contributes more to the D by keeping them off the field. Not the other way around. Since the Bills have not had horrendous field position, at least not as a rule, there is no correlation.

Secondly, what I have seen this year is a coaching staff that has forced the passing game like an insurance salesman pushing life insurance! There's been no balance, no effort to improve the D, or it would have been done instead of getting worse over last season and rivaling the worst D of all time for Bills Ds. If the Bills were truly trying to become proficient in "all phases" of the offense, the Drew wouldn't be passing it to Moulds and Price for 60-some % of all of our offensive snaps!

Eg., "The comparing Bledsoe vs. Kelly cannot be done until Bledsoe has been playing under center with a team that has had the same amount of time together as an offensive unit that Kelly had the privilege of having.'

Sorry here, but that's simply B.S. Bledsoe is seasoned enough to not have to throw for almost 200 yards to put up a TD. Nevertheless, he played w/ a very qualified N.E. squad for years and had right about the same exact number of yards in efficiency for them. Same story there as here and it hasn't changed. He moves the ball well between the 20s and isn't efficient in the red zone. More facts.

As to Bledsoe TT, over his past 7 games, and barring something changing, he has put up numbers that more closely resemble exactly what he was doing in N.E. Extrapolated, they would be approximately 21 TDs and 18 INTs. You can say all you want about Drew, but I gotta tell ya, I think just about any QB could have done that w/ this team. And in terms of "winning games", it all of his yardage hasn't done a thing for us.

Today is a HUGE game for him, for the team, for the coaches. Let's see what happens. But you guys jump all over me and then defend that by speaking things either contrary to the truth or simply indefensible. I've given Drew credit for what he was doing. I said he was playing the best ball of his career early on. But let's get real, only a fool would have to think that over the last 7 weeks! During that stretch he's been highly unimpressive. Wouldn't you agree?

[DIHARD2]

wys, you don't understand football, you understand stats but you don't understand people, and what it takes to play.

Why are you trying to compare a first year team stats, against a team that was together already for I believe three years before they made the big stats. What you need to do is compare Kelly's first year as quarterback and the team he had, and Bledsoe first year's stats as a Bills quarterback and the team he has.

You would expect, after three years of playing together I believe it was, Kelly and his offense better put up some good numbers, they already had the time to jell as a team.

In three years compare their stats and then I can say what you are saying if there the same. Then I will say you are right, but compare apples to apples. If anything this team is on a faster learning process than what Kelly's team was.

Leopards changing spots! Why, didn't anyone believe RJ wasn't going to change, he was a leopard and all the time he was here he did not produce, but yet, you wanted him over a quarterback that won the majority of the games he played here in Buffalo?

I'm not saying Flutie would have done any better last year, but it would've been better to watch him, (Flutie) then it was to watch RJ crawl up into a ball and fall to the ground just about every play.

Quit trying to judge the team through stats, because the stats are the reason we lost a whole season last year with a wasted quarterback, who had great stats he also had the size but he didn't have the mind.

Now you want to say it Bledsoe?? Why can't it be the fact that we have a young team that's never played together as a team and their learning how to play as a team. The pass is the bread-and-butter, of any team, it's what will get you down the field and scored a quickest.

The fact is our defense was ran on all over the field by just about every team this year. When you are behind in every game I'm sorry the pass is what's going to win the game for you. The running game is what you slow the clock down with like we did in Miami. We just haven't had the luxury to run a lot this season because we, don't have the defense that's been able to stop anyone.

For some reason you want to make mountains out of molehills, and over analyze every situation. But, the fact is, we don't have a very good team this year. We have a bad team on defense, and a learning team on offense. Nothing more nothing less. You can only blame our shortcomings to the fact that we have a new team that learning its own identity.

GO!!!...BUFFALO!!!...

[mybills]

2 years ago....

NE's D was about as bad as our present D.
NE's O was worse than our present O.
NE's record was about the same as ours, at this time.

With our better O, you have to ask if it's Drew.
You just have to.