Cut Mike Williams?

[Canadian'eh!]

ok... maybe that's not a great option... but 9 million cap hit for a good, not great, RT????? WTF?

How did this happen? Why would we sign a high 1st round pick to not only such an expensive deal, but one that gave us not easy way out later on? even if we cut him june 1 it's a 5+ mill hit. :down:

[wchutalkinboutwillis]

ok... maybe that's not a great option... but 9 million cap hit for a good, not great, RT????? WTF?

How did this happen? Why would we sign a high 1st round pick to not only such an expensive deal, but one that gave us not easy way out later on? even if we cut him june 1 it's a 5+ mill hit. :down:
His contract is going to be restructured. Eh? I'd be suprised if the Bills organ-I-zation doesn't get it done. You're right. Right now, he's average to good at best but I think this year is a break-out year for MW. Important we get him a restructured deal or he'll be history when his contract is up.

[venis2k1]

ok... maybe that's not a great option... but 9 million cap hit for a good, not great, RT????? WTF?

How did this happen? Why would we sign a high 1st round pick to not only such an expensive deal, but one that gave us not easy way out later on? even if we cut him june 1 it's a 5+ mill hit. :down:

first of all, we signed mike williams to "such an expensive deal" because he was the 4th overall draft pick. i dont know the numbers but i betcha he got less than joey harrington and more than whoever was picked at #5(Quintin Jammer?) thats how it works, tds hands were tied. anyone recall that Bryant mikinnie held out for weeks into the season because he was offered less money than the player picked behind him?

TD has to see mike williams as his "ace in the hole". why hasnt he restructured MWs deal? because he didnt need the money. if Mcnally says he cant live without someone like Kyle Turley at LT (just a hypothetical, i dont want to hear it) who is expected to be cut june 1st, TD can get it done.

[SABURZFAN]

there's no way we cut mike williams.there's always re-structuring a contract.

[SoCalBillsFan]

The line needs additions, not subtractions.

[ddaryl]

How did this happen? Why would we sign a high 1st round pick to not only such an expensive deal, but one that gave us not easy way out later on? even if we cut him june 1 it's a 5+ mill hit. :down:high 1st round picks get market value. Mike Williams received Market value for being #4 overall. His contract was backloaded with incentive bonuses which esculated the final years of his contract.

Cutting him is not an option which is why MW agreed to the heavily backloaded contract. As long as he started and /or played in so many games he was guarenteed the rest of his market value #4 overall pick monetary value.

If we were going to cut MW we should of done in in Feburary when those esculators were not exercised, but that wouldn't have been a wise decision.

[wchutalkinboutwillis]

high 1st round picks get market value. Mike Williams received Market value for being #4 overall. His contract was backloaded with incentive bonuses which esculated the final years of his contract.

Cutting him is not an option which is why MW agreed to the heavily backloaded contract. As long as he started and /or played in so many games he was guarenteed the rest of his market value #4 overall pick monetary value.

If we were going to cut MW we should of done in in Feburary when those esculators were not exercised, but that wouldn't have been a wise decision.
Exactly. It's all about history. That's one of the reasons why T.O. is such a whining baby. Mushin Muhammed got 15mm guaranteed from the Bears so now T.O. is holding out because he didn't get that much in guarantee money. It's all about who's making what and who thinks he's better than whom? We can go on and on about how T.O. is a better player but a contract is a contract. Thank god for the cap. If it goes away, the NFL will get ugly.

[Pats Cheated]

"Thank god for the cap. If it goes away, the NFL will get ugly."

Is that a white elephant in the room? I understand there's a collective bargaining agreement to be made sometime soon?

[wchutalkinboutwillis]

"Thank god for the cap. If it goes away, the NFL will get ugly."

Is that a white elephant in the room? I understand there's a collective bargaining agreement to be made sometime soon?
The CBA is up in 2007. Snyder and Jones have the support of 8 teams, big market teams of course. Their goal is to defeat the cap as we know it so they can buy any player that they'd like. If no agreement is reached, then 2007 is played as an uncapped season. Mayhem would ensue. Fortunately or unfortunately, 24 owners are needed to pass NFL legislation.
I'm not sure NFL fans understand the importance of these negotiations. Small market teams will be dependent on mid-market teams like Pittsburgh and Cleveland to remain in their corner. Cleveland is surprisingly a very profitable (top 10) team. This may sway them to the side of darkness and evil.
Negotiations went nowhere during the Pro-Bowl in Hawaii. We need Ralph to use his small market power and campaign heavily. I personally think we'll see a similar CBA to what we have right now. It has been effective for the majority of the league and it has really only failed those teams that have lousy fan support.

[buffalofan19]

If no agreement is reached, then 2007 is played as an uncapped season. Mayhem would ensue.

I'm not sure NFL fans understand the importance of these negotiations. Small market teams will be dependent on mid-market teams like Pittsburgh and Cleveland to remain in their corner.
Oh believe me, NFL fans do understand the importance of these negotiations, especially in Buffalo. Its other professional franchise's league is undergoing the mayhem that would ensue because I cap is not agreed upon.

[Canadian'eh!]

I fully realize the market sets the value.... but i woudl have expected TD to be a bit more creative than this at the time.... I'd rather pay the upfront money and have an out after 3-4 years in case the guy doesn't work out...

I expected MW to have a breakout year a few years ago... I've given up that pipedream.

the bottom line is he is amke ELITE LT money as an above average RT..... I hear nothing about him ever making the move now.... too much money for a RT is basically the point of my post.

[wchutalkinboutwillis]

I fully realize the market sets the value.... but i woudl have expected TD to be a bit more creative than this at the time.... I'd rather pay the upfront money and have an out after 3-4 years in case the guy doesn't work out...

I expected MW to have a breakout year a few years ago... I've given up that pipedream.

the bottom line is he is amke ELITE LT money as an above average RT..... I hear nothing about him ever making the move now.... too much money for a RT is basically the point of my post.
I agree that it's been tough to watch MW at times. But he's shown steady improvement, and as I've stated before, Olineman, especially tackles, take a long time to develop. Many don't reach their prime until their late 20's. Granted, given what their paid, every number 4 overall OL pick should come out of the gates like Orlando Pace but I believe that patience is critical at this position. McNally is the key to making MW live up to his expectations. Don't forget, there is no longer a statue waiting between the hash marks. This will alleviate a lot of pressure as Mularkey and Clements will maximize JP's mobility to minimize sacks.

[wchutalkinboutwillis]

Oh believe me, NFL fans do understand the importance of these negotiations, especially in Buffalo. Its other professional franchise's league is undergoing the mayhem that would ensue because I cap is not agreed upon.
Right on. So what is your opinion on where the NFL will be in 2007? Do pigs like Snyder and Jones rule the league? Or, do we extend the current CBA which has been extremely effective? The answer should be simple but money means power and power will be abused. Do Snyder and Jones sway those on the fence with political favors?
I haven't seen much on this topic in The Zone. It can only help if the fans unite on the subject. It's not a democracy but most owners understand and respect the input of thier fans as a whole.

[clumping platelets]

:shakeno:

[wchutalkinboutwillis]

:shakeno:
:huh:

[clumping platelets]

:shakeno:


means that I cannot believe anyone would even begin to think this is the right move.

[wchutalkinboutwillis]

:shakeno:


means that I cannot believe anyone would even begin to think this is the right move.Please elaborate.

:huh:

[buffalofan19]

Right on. So what is your opinion on where the NFL will be in 2007? Do pigs like Snyder and Jones rule the league? Or, do we extend the current CBA which has been extremely effective? The answer should be simple but money means power and power will be abused. Do Snyder and Jones sway those on the fence with political favors?
I haven't seen much on this topic in The Zone. It can only help if the fans unite on the subject. It's not a democracy but most owners understand and respect the input of thier fans as a whole.
Oh I agree with you there. The fans understand what needs to be done...unfortunately they can't do anything about it. I, like pretty much every other Bills fan would like to see this system stay in place. Actually, I will go a step further and say it NEEDS to stay in place. However, some owners may not see it that way (they are ultimately wrong, but try telling them that). Same goes for the NHL, a cap is needed, but the problem is that you can't convince the morons in the NHLPA that this is the case. If there is no cap, the Bills are gone from Buffalo. If the NHL does not get a cap, so are the Sabres (if the league doesn't disintegrate first). Unfortunately, many of the people whose responsibility is to get this thing settled are either utterly stupid or they just don't give a crap...or both.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I fully realize the market sets the value.... but i woudl have expected TD to be a bit more creative than this at the time.... I'd rather pay the upfront money and have an out after 3-4 years in case the guy doesn't work out...

I expected MW to have a breakout year a few years ago... I've given up that pipedream.

the bottom line is he is amke ELITE LT money as an above average RT..... I hear nothing about him ever making the move now.... too much money for a RT is basically the point of my post.
Do you realize that M.Williams has played for FOUR different offensive line coaches in three years? With each of them having their own way of doing things and their own way of having him do things, is it any wonder that he has not played up to the level expected of him or improved from one season to the next as expected? Barring an injury in the preseason, this will be the first time in his professional career that he will be playing alongside the same guy for the same offensive line coach! Despite that, there are some observers (as posted in a previous thread here on M.Williams) who consider M.Williams to have performed better than any other offensive lineman taken in the same draft as he was. While most Bills fans would agree that his performance thus far has been disappointing, Williams' play improved considerably over the course of last season and can be expected to improve more this season, now that he will be working with the same RG and O-line coach as last year.

Also, you keep saying that M.Williams is being paid ELITE LT money. That's not true: he is being paid 4th pick in the first round of the draft money--the amount that any player taken at that spot would be getting paid regardless of position. The fact that Williams is a RT is immaterial to the amount of money that Bills would be paying to the player that they selected in that spot in the 1st round--it would be the same if he were a DT, CB or RB. The fact that the #4 pick in the draft commands the same money as an elite LT doesn't mean that the player selected at that spot will turn out to be an elite LT or worthy of elite LT money, even if the player happens to be a LT. While it is true that, if the Bills had selected B.McKinnie instead of M.Williams, they would be paying elite LT money to a LT, that doesn't make B.McKinnie an elite LT--indeed, McKinnie hasn't proven that he is more worthy of the money that M.Williams is getting than Williams.

Now, it is true that the # 4 pick in the first round of the draft is expected to become an elite player at whatever position that player plays and, thus far, M.Williams has not played up to the level expected of an elite player. Yet. But, as I pointed out, he has yet to play two seasons in a row for the same O-line coach or next to the same player. Still, he has played as well or better than any other offensive lineman taken with him the the first round and has shown that, under the tutelage of a good offensive line coach, he is capable of improving the level of his play. There is every reason to believe that given the opportunity to continue to work with the same o-line coach, M.Williams can and will continue to improve his play and become the elite player at his position that someone drafted where he was is expected to become. If he does, then, he will be an elite player being paid the kind of money that an elite player taken at # 4 in the draft can expect to be paid. If he doesn't, he can expect to be asked to radically restructure his contract or become a salary cap casualty as soon as it is economically feasible for his team to do that after they have determined that he will not develop into an elite player. Thus far, the Bills have given every indication that they expect M.Williams to become an elite player at his position--albeit RT and not LT--even though he has not yet achieved that yet and are paying him accordingly.

[Mr. Cynical]

Bottom line: $9M for an RT on a righty QB team is stupid. Either he takes a 50% cut (which he won't do) or trade/release him. My bet is that he will be gone at the end of his contract. Chalk it up to a bad pick at #4 (unless he were playing for a lefty QB team, then he is a good pick)

[Jan Reimers]

With the help of McNally, Big Mike is just coming into his own. I'll bet he restructures next year, and we'll all be happy.

[pleasesavedrew]

Mike is comin around , few more years i think he'll be pretty good. it shouldn't have taken this long, though

[wchutalkinboutwillis]

Williams probably has not exceled to the level that was expected from TD and his brass. I think last year was a crossroads for him and he took the right turn. As I've mentioned before, it takes years for most linemen to reach their peak. Granted, an argument can be made that he was a #4 pick overall and that he should contribute as a pro-bowler right off that bat. Hasn't happened but in my opinion, he has done a decent job at his position. There's been a lot invested in this guy, from both a financial and coaching standpoint. TD drafted him and his ego will not allow him to let go very easily. MW is looking at the best situation he's had since he arrived in Buffalo: McNally, McGahee, a mobile JP, and a solid receiving corps will set him up to succeed.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I think that this quote from CBSSportsline sums up where the Bills and M.Williams are at right now:

"--RT Mike Williams (http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/302237), whose career has been a roller-coaster ride since the Bills drafted him fourth overall in 2002, is drawing high praise from his coaches for his offseason regimen. Williams has been in Buffalo much of the offseason working on his conditioning and he is perhaps poised to finally reach his full potential. "It's good on his part," coach Mike Mularkey said. "I think he's stronger that he was a year ago, doing quickness drills, and it's showing up out here (on the field).'"
(URL: http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/BUF/8473940)

Sounds like M.Williams finally has a coach who has motivated him to do the kinds of things that he probably should have been doing from the beginning. Still, it's good to hear how hard he has been working this off-season. With more stability around him and the work he has been doing, I think we can expect him to start really earning the big bucks he has been getting paid.

[Canadian'eh!]

I think that this quote from CBSSportsline sums up where the Bills and M.Williams are at right now:

"--RT Mike Williams (http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/302237), whose career has been a roller-coaster ride since the Bills drafted him fourth overall in 2002, is drawing high praise from his coaches for his offseason regimen. Williams has been in Buffalo much of the offseason working on his conditioning and he is perhaps poised to finally reach his full potential. "It's good on his part," coach Mike Mularkey said. "I think he's stronger that he was a year ago, doing quickness drills, and it's showing up out here (on the field).'"
(URL: http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/BUF/8473940)

Sounds like M.Williams finally has a coach who has motivated him to do the kinds of things that he probably should have been doing from the beginning. Still, it's good to hear how hard he has been working this off-season. With more stability around him and the work he has been doing, I think we can expect him to start really earning the big bucks he has been getting paid.



Good posting.....

I hope Mike does finally make good on his high expectations. BUT, 9 mill will always be too much for a RT.

Also, I know JP's mobility, Willis and all that will help Mike.... but it doesn't matter what is going on behind you.... Mike still needs to take care of business, something he wasn't doing well enough. We shall see, though i am now convinced he will never be a LT, which means he will NEVER be worth the money he's making or his #4 overall status.

[Canadian'eh!]

Just to add fuel to the fire..... here's a few players taken in the 1st round after we took Mike Williams:

Dwight Freeney
Ed Reed
Javon Walker
Roy Williams
Lito Sheppard
Charles Grant
John Henderson
Bryant McKinnie
Quentin Jammer
Jeremy Shockey
Ashlie Lelie

[wchutalkinboutwillis]

Just to add fuel to the fire..... here's a few players taken in the 1st round after we took Mike Williams:


Dwight Freeney
Ed Reed
Javon Walker
Roy Williams
Lito Sheppard
Charles Grant
John Henderson
Bryant McKinnie
Quentin Jammer
Jeremy Shockey
Ashlie Lelie
The only solace I get from this list is Bryant McKinnie. The Bills were pretty much set on picking a Tackle in 2002. McKinnie was initially rumored to be the Bills favorite. Imagine what kind of posts we'd be writing and reading here today if that happened?.......Ouch, it stings to read Dwight Freeney's name. Shockey's name would sting too if he weren't such an ass.

[venis2k1]

Freeny was seen as a reach when the colts took him, it came down to mike or bryant mikinnie, Bryant said he didnt really want to play in buffalo, so TDs options were pretty easy.

[wchutalkinboutwillis]

Freeny was seen as a reach when the colts took him, it came down to mike or bryant mikinnie, Bryant said he didnt really want to play in buffalo, so TDs options were pretty easy.
There is no doubt in my mind that if Donahoe thought McKinnie was the better player, he would have drafted him. No doubt. The good GM's never retreat just because a player says he doesn't want to play for his team. Eli Manning was very direct and outspoken about not wanting to play for San Diego, yet they drafted him. Albeit they turned around and traded him about 20 minutes later but the point of the story is that the Chargers front office was not intimidated by Eli's strong stance.
Besides, TD knew that if the Bills drafted McKinnie, he would have come to love playing for the Bills. The Sabres and Bills live large in Buffalo. Everyone knows who they are and treat them with the utmost respect and admiration. Most fans may have *****ed and moaned about Bledsoe and rightly so. But if anyone of those same fans ran into Drew in the Galleria mall, they'd be all over him asking for his autograph and telling him how great he is.

[Pats Cheated]

Most fans may have *****ed and moaned about Bledsoe and rightly so. But if anyone of those same fans ran into Drew in the Galleria mall, they'd be all over him asking for his autograph and telling him how great he is.
That's crazy and you are nuts. What folly, what absurdity. If i saw Bledsoe in the Galleria Mall i would probably mistake him for a statue, due to the pidgeon on his head. But then i would kick him in the shin and i would scold him severely. To think i blamed Kevin Gilbride when all along it was YOU, Drew Bledsoe, YOU!!! You are dumb.

[wchutalkinboutwillis]

That's crazy and you are nuts. What folly, what absurdity. If i saw Bledsoe in the Galleria Mall i would probably mistake him for a statue, due to the pidgeon on his head. But then i would kick him in the shin and i would scold him severely. To think i blamed Kevin Gilbride when all along it was YOU, Drew Bledsoe, YOU!!! You are dumb.
I may be nuts but you are a Steelers fan first and a Bills fan when convenient. I know you had a poster of Bledsoe in your bedroom. He was on his back, of course, his upper body oiled, his hair mussed, looking at you dangerously. Now that he's gone, Rothlisberger is up on your wall riding a motorcycle naked with Bettis riding *****.

[Pats Cheated]

I may be nuts but you are a Steelers fan first and a Bills fan when convenient. I know you had a poster of Bledsoe in your bedroom. He was on his back, of course, his upper body oiled, his hair mussed, looking at you dangerously. Now that he's gone, Rothlisberger is up on your wall riding a motorcycle naked with Bettis riding *****.
You pull that Steelers fan garbage everytime i call you on an assinine statement. Sure i was a big fan in the late seventies but those Steelers rocked and the Bills at that time, well nobody south of hamburg was really sure there was still a pro team up there. And i was just a kid. Years later it would all change for me. I've been loyal since '86. Maybe i didn't grow up under the silver maples of Elma but does that mean my blood does not flow dark blue, royal blue, red, and white, with a hint of grey?

[wchutalkinboutwillis]

You pull that Steelers fan garbage everytime i call you on an assinine statement. Sure i was a big fan in the late seventies but those Steelers rocked and the Bills at that time, well nobody south of hamburg was really sure there was still a pro team up there. And i was just a kid. Years later it would all change for me. I've been loyal since '86. Maybe i didn't grow up under the silver maples of Elma but does that mean my blood does not flow dark blue, royal blue, red, and white, with a hint of grey?
I love that story. Okay, you've been clean since '86 but I'm pretty sure you're still tempted by the fruit of Steel.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Just to add fuel to the fire..... here's a few players taken in the 1st round after we took Mike Williams:

Dwight Freeney
Ed Reed
Javon Walker
Roy Williams
Lito Sheppard
Charles Grant
John Henderson
Bryant McKinnie
Quentin Jammer
Jeremy Shockey
Ashlie Lelie
You are making a completely spurious argument by including anyone who isn't an offensive lineman on that list. If you recall, virtually every Bills fan was calling for TD to draft an offensive lineman with that pick (BTW, aren't you one of the posters who keeps criticizing TD for not paying enough attention to the O-line in the draft?), specifically an OT, because the Bills O-line had been putrid the season before and would have been calling for TD's scalp if he passed on either M.Williams or B.McKinnie. The choice was not M.Williams or any one of the other players your list, but M.Williams or any other offensive lineman rated as being a first round pick in that draft. Because they were the two highest rated O-lineman in that draft, to be more specific, the choice was between M.Williams and B.McKinnie at # 4. TD chose M.Williams over B.McKinnie and I would challenge anyone here to show me a post where you said that the Bills made a mistake taking M.Williams over B.McKinnie during or immediately after the time that McKinnie was holding out for the first 10 games of their rookie season....if you can show me some evidence that you thought or still thought that McKinnie was the better choice at that point, then I accept your criticism of M.Williams being taken with the # 4 pick....

While it is true that McKinnie is a LT and, at this moment in time, would appear to have been the better option for the Bills to take at that time, the fact is that only appears to be the better option now because the Bills do not have a LT and the money that M.Williams is making would appear to be better spent on a LT rather than a RT. But, thus far in his career, B.McKinnie hasn't developed into an ELITE LT worthy of being paid the kind of money that he would have received had the Bills drafted him at # 4 instead of M.Williams--indeed, many observers feel that McKinnie hasn't developed as much as M.Williams and, LT or no, as a result, he would be even more overpaid than Williams had he been selected at # 4 instead. And, would you be saying this if J.Jennings was still a Bill? Or, is your criticism based on the notion that the money that M.Williams is receiving as a # 4 pick in the draft could be better spent to pay for a proven FA LT now that the Bills are apparently in need of one? Well, hindsight is 20-20....

Finally, it seems to me that the very people who have been demanding that the Bills draft offensive linemen high in the draft are among those who are also critical of the amount that M.Williams is making. Well, you can't have it both ways, folks! When you draft a player in the first round of the draft--regardless of his position--you are going to have to pay him what a player taken at that spot in the first round commands. If you want an offensive line composed of 1st round draft picks or proven FAs taken high in the draft, you are going to have to pay them top dollar and, in doing so, you are not going to have as much money available under the salary cap to pay the players that you have at other positions, particularly if your offensive linemen perform well enough in opening holes or pass protecting that your starting RB or QB become stars and also must be paid accordingly---if you don't believe me, just take a look at the KC Chiefs. If you draft a guard or center in the middle of the first round, you may end up paying him elite LT or RT money, even though elite guards and centers do not generally command that kind of money--and, God forbid if he ends up being only a mediocre player or a bust at that position. If you take a player in the first round, you a committing a lot of money to that player and that position and you can't turn around a couple of years later and say, "well we shouldn't be paying him that kind of money because he isn't worth the money we had to pay him because we drafted him that high", while, at the same time, saying, "we really need to commit this type of money to this position" and getting angry when the team doesn't do that. That's just not being realistic.