I need to get a few football related items off of my chest

[Pride]

One thing I have observed for the better part of a month has been everyone's willingness to jump all over Terrell Owens and his contract dispute. Now, I will start off by staying that I hate TO. I dont respect him as a person.... but at the same time, he is a big time player. The truth is, it woudlnt matter who we were talking about here, because my problem is with the principal.

Many of you are angry that he is holidng out for more money. He signed a contract, and should play it out. I 100% agree with that. However... a lot of you are also quick to say that Mike Williams should take a pay cut since he has not performed well enough to make 8 mill this year. That is a hypocritcal line of reasoning. Contracts worth both ways. The players should honor a contract even if he is worth more than it... and the team should honor it even if the player is not worth it.

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Ok, point 2. We as billszone members constantly talk about players who are out of the game for more than a year. QB's RB's WR's etc... Any mention of a player coming back after 2 years (ricky, boston, etc most recently), we immediately throw out the "He hasnt played in 2 years... he's gonna suck!"

Well... those same people are trying to push Henry (who, for the most part hasnt played in 2 years) onto teams looking for a #1 RB. At the same time, we are hypocritical saying that we would never want TH to be our starter, but yet fully expect other teams to accept him as theirs? Either he is good enough to start in the NFL or he is not. My personal opionon is that he is a lower half back... meaning there are at least 15 RB's better than him. But some of you are trying to pawn him off as this great RB who just lost out to an even better RB.

Fact is, TH was never that good. He's great between the tackles... but any play that requires speed and agility.. forget about it. Throw in his fumblitis, and you have a middle of the pack back who is only good enough for a backup role... which is what he has right now.

Ok, I'm done.. flame away! :blowup:

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I think that a lot of Bills fans get caught up in name recognition/reputations and the media. It isn't a bad thing, it is just the way they follow the team. They hear some knucklehead say something on the radio and they take that opinion. If a guys name comes up as someone they have heard of they jump all over the player. "We should sign him", etc. The LJ Shelton saga is the best. One day, we need to trade TH for him now, etc.

[OpIv37]

Good comparison between MW and TO. We just have to hope that MW would rather help the team by making a lot of money and winning than making a ****load of money and losing.

As far as TH goes, I never had a problem with him as a starter because of the way he plays. It's jus that Willis is better, plain and simple. For the most part, I think Henry has improved on the fumbles. His durability is definitely in question. As far as not playing, I don't think he should be compared to Ricky Williams. At least Henry was on the team, around football, working with trainers, etc. He may have been injured, but at least he was taking care of himself and absorbing the game. The only thing RW was absorbing was THC into his bloodstream.

[lordofgun]

I blame the players union for giving the owners all the leverage in contracts. They're only guaranteed one way, not two ways, so to say contracts go both ways is not quite accurate.

The collective bargaining agreement that the players agree to allows owners to get rid of players or insist they take a paycut. It does not give the players the right to chop up a contract, however.

Sorry, but the players were stupid enough to agree to it. The richest league in the world is the only one that doesn't guarantee player contracts (besides the NHL), and the players were ok with that apparently.

[feelthepain]

One thing I have observed for the better part of a month has been everyone's willingness to jump all over Terrell Owens and his contract dispute. Now, I will start off by staying that I hate TO. I dont respect him as a person.... but at the same time, he is a big time player. The truth is, it woudlnt matter who we were talking about here, because my problem is with the principal.

Many of you are angry that he is holidng out for more money. He signed a contract, and should play it out. I 100% agree with that. However... a lot of you are also quick to say that Mike Williams should take a pay cut since he has not performed well enough to make 8 mill this year. That is a hypocritcal line of reasoning. Contracts worth both ways. The players should honor a contract even if he is worth more than it... and the team should honor it even if the player is not worth it.

------------

Ok, point 2. We as billszone members constantly talk about players who are out of the game for more than a year. QB's RB's WR's etc... Any mention of a player coming back after 2 years (ricky, boston, etc most recently), we immediately throw out the "He hasnt played in 2 years... he's gonna suck!"

Well... those same people are trying to push Henry (who, for the most part hasnt played in 2 years) onto teams looking for a #1 RB. At the same time, we are hypocritical saying that we would never want TH to be our starter, but yet fully expect other teams to accept him as theirs? Either he is good enough to start in the NFL or he is not. My personal opionon is that he is a lower half back... meaning there are at least 15 RB's better than him. But some of you are trying to pawn him off as this great RB who just lost out to an even better RB.

Fact is, TH was never that good. He's great between the tackles... but any play that requires speed and agility.. forget about it. Throw in his fumblitis, and you have a middle of the pack back who is only good enough for a backup role... which is what he has right now.

Ok, I'm done.. flame away! :blowup:


Good post!!!

[TedMock]

Great points, Pride. I actually agree 100% Mike Williams actually turned in a very good year last season, so hopefully he is "worth it" to all the doubters after this season. Again, great post.

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

Only issue I have with your way of thinking, Pride, is that I am pissed about TO's thinking that he should have a fair contract restructured after only 1 year playing in that contract. Now if TD wanted to restructure MW's contract after one year, I would find that ridiculous too.

What get's people (myself included) is a guy wanting a restructure so soon after fighting to get on a specific team. That's bull****. That's like Eli Manning demanding to be restructured this year after the Giants jumped through hoops to get him.

ON your other point. I don't honestly feel Henry is worth more than a 4th rounder at best. Holding out for anything more is futile, in my opinion.
Putting the shoe on the other foot....if we were RB shopping, would we want to give up anything more than that for Travis? Too many question marks in my opinion.

[Tatonka]

how can a guy who had 1400 yards two seasons in a row be considered a back up? i think he is definately a starter.. especially with 32 teams in the league.

[Stewie]

That is a hypocritcal line of reasoning. Contracts worth both ways. The players should honor a contract even if he is worth more than it... and the team should honor it even if the player is not worth it.



Sorry dude but contracts most certainly do not "work both ways".

The contract works the way it is written, pure and simple. NFL employment contracts are written that a team can terminate a contract, and that players cannot. If players don't like this, they need to bring it up to their union during negotiations for the next cba. Until then, that's the way it is.

Saying it "works both ways" is just plain wrong.

[Mudflap1]

Mike Williams shouldn't take a paycut. But he should restructure for the benefit of the team. This way he doesn't take a paycut, but the Bills don't take as much of a hit.

About Henry, agreed. The longer the Henry thing goes, the less value he may have in the market. At the end of last year he was a guy who was good, but then lost his starting job to a better player, and got injured. If this prolongs into next season, his time away from those 1,400 seasons only grows and grows. That being said, Shelton got cut, so Henry for Shelton wouldn't have worked out anyway. But the sooner TD can get value for Henry and ship him out, probably the better.

Jon

[Crisis]

Henry hasn't played in 2 years? He started last year for some games.

[LarryBoy]

First, I agree, TH aint all that great, he has enough to be a starter somewhere, but theres alot better. Plus instead of going after an average TH, most clubs would rather roll the dice on a rookie with potiential and less injuries.


Now, about TO...I dont agree...I guess I just get tired of multi-millionares complaining that they are worth more, that goes not just for TO and not just for football. If a contract is written that way for both sides, ok, if not TO should shut his lip and get on the field.

Not to mention that maybe hes one of the best WR's ever, but 1/2 the clubs would pass on him then have his cancer in a locker room, thats gotta lower his value.

[mybills]

how can a guy who had 1400 yards two seasons in a row be considered a back up? i think he is definately a starter.. especially with 32 teams in the league.
better yet..somebody who fumbled 6-7 times and STILL got over 1400 yds.
I don't understand the downplay of his performance as a Bill. :cynic:

[K-Gun]

One thing I have observed for the better part of a month has been everyone's willingness to jump all over Terrell Owens and his contract dispute. Now, I will start off by staying that I hate TO. I dont respect him as a person.... but at the same time, he is a big time player. The truth is, it woudlnt matter who we were talking about here, because my problem is with the principal.

Many of you are angry that he is holidng out for more money. He signed a contract, and should play it out. I 100% agree with that. However... a lot of you are also quick to say that Mike Williams should take a pay cut since he has not performed well enough to make 8 mill this year. That is a hypocritcal line of reasoning. Contracts worth both ways. The players should honor a contract even if he is worth more than it... and the team should honor it even if the player is not worth it.




I disagree to a certain extent. When we picked Big Mike we were forced to give him a certain contract based upon his draft position.

With the cap, and being forced to dole out contracts without any guarantee of return, I think it is at least reasonable to ask a player, who counts 9 million against the cap, to work something out for the team.

The fact is, the only way to build a “dynasty” in the NFL these days is to follow BB’s example in NE.

You have to get a bunch of pro-bowlers together who are more concerned with winning a championship then with getting a huge payday.

I don’t know if Teddy Bruschi will look back with regret in 25-30 years, knowing he could have 15-20 million more in the bank. But that was the price of his Super Bowl rings.

IMO, with a salary cap in place, the player union should sit down with the league and devise a pay scale based upon performance. It would need to be massively complicated, but it would work out so that a minimum salary would be in place, and then each player received compensation based upon the year’s performance. It would just be sweet if hold out’s and *****ing players were a thing of the past. The best QB gets the most cash, all the way down the line. It may be totally impossible to do in reality, but in a perfect world, a yes, in a perfect world.

[HAMMER]

better yet..somebody who fumbled 6-7 times and STILL got over 1400 yds.
I don't understand the downplay of his performance as a Bill. :cynic:

Me either, he was a stud for us and still can be for any team that will utilize him. Gilbride never used TH enough, especially as a receiver out of the backfield. Buffalo needs to keep him here through his contract as insurance. Many players aren't happy with their situations, it's tough schnit, get to work!

[parttimeplayer]

i dont think that the to and the mw comparisons work because like stated earlier mike williams was a draft slot and that determined his pay. to was a "free agent" the thing is that i remenber hearing when he first started *****ing about his pay that the players assosiation told him not to sign that contract. he didnt listen so tough i think he just has play with that contract

[Michael82]

I blame the players union for giving the owners all the leverage in contracts. They're only guaranteed one way, not two ways, so to say contracts go both ways is not quite accurate.

The collective bargaining agreement that the players agree to allows owners to get rid of players or insist they take a paycut. It does not give the players the right to chop up a contract, however.

Sorry, but the players were stupid enough to agree to it. The richest league in the world is the only one that doesn't guarantee player contracts (besides the NHL), and the players were ok with that apparently.
I hope we never see that. Guaranteed contracts will destroy the NFL the same way that they have destroyed MLB, and the NBA. Think of it this way....if there were no guaranteed contracts in MLB....you wouldn't have players like Giambi and Mo Vaughn tieing up millions of dollars. The teams would be able to release them and correct their mistakes.

[colin]

i have said for a long time that travis was never great.

he is a direct benefactor of our prior pass happy option route offense. with WRs and backs flying all over the place there were always fewer players in the box (unless they went for jail break blitzes, against which henry was poor as a blocker, too slow to get around as a runner, and not a good enough reciever to catch and work dump offs consistantly). i also think mike williams true value as a player (although he still has holes in blocking against fast pass rushers) is shown by how well henry did with him starting. when williams gets his man sealed (particularly a smallish DE who tries to go up field) you could drive 2 trucks through the hole, and when he gets to the second level he screens tacklers from the play as well as blocks them.

Travis was a warrior tho, he is a really hard worker and he leaves it all on the grid iron, but we have seen the absolute best that he can do. he is a physical back to benefitted from running draws against pass defenses with DEs going up field and our big line doing one of the few things it does well. Gillbride runs single back, and he opens up the field for the passing game, which benefits the single back more than anyone (stat wise anyhow). He had some jo blo guys do well in houston, had taylor rip up 1700 yards in jax, got henry his two best years, and made speedy and one dimensional Tiki Barber (he couldn't block a high school pass rusher) one of the best backs in the NFC (what did he average, near 5 yards last season? the NFC east has some strong Ds too).

while we did not run as much (or particularly WHEN we should have) with gillbride, travis was our lone feature back. he was top 3 or 5 in rushes both years.

he has done some good things for our team, but not being able to block or catch well, not being able to break the big run, not holding onto the ball well enough, being injured too much, and his lack of vision and balance (remember his third and short with no one near him against new england in buffalo last year?) just reduces his ability to be a top 10 or even 15 back in the NFL. bigger backs with even a touch of balance can do more damage near the goal line. the weapons we had in 02 along with gillbrides big play O got bledsoe a whole lot of our franchise passing records, but we are quick to dismiss him because of his limitations. for some reason too many fans refuse to apply the same standard to Travis

he would be a great change of pace back from willis tho, but he won't play back up so we just have to ditch him.

[Billscusey]

[QUOTE=DaBillzAhDaShiznit]Only issue I have with your way of thinking, Pride, is that I am pissed about TO's thinking that he should have a fair contract restructured after only 1 year playing in that contract.
What get's people (myself included) is a guy wanting a restructure so soon after fighting to get on a specific team. That's bull****.


Good point, my question to the BZ crew is "Would you honestly want TO and all of his baggage here in Buffalo?" If so, how do you think that would affect the team as a whole?

[BuffaloRanger]

Keeping TH might work out great if WM sustains a season ending injury in camp. If WM stays healthy TH would be a distraction - if he didn't holdout that is.

Strictly speaking about the 2005 season - keeping TH would be good insurance.

Looking to the future - trading TH is the way to go

[SABURZFAN]

henry is not a great RB but good enough to be a starter in the NFL.if we didn't have mcgahee,i'd be happy that we have a RB who can get 1200 yards for us.

[juice]

TO put his future in the NFL at risk by playing in the SB with a bad wheel and delivered.. he went beyond the parameters of his contract and put himself at risk for the teams sake and delivered.


TO has the right to ask for more money and has the right agent to get his demands met - Like he said he wasn't the one that couldn't deliver in the Big Game, because of McNabb the Eagles lost the game and because of TO it was their game to win.

If he would've done perminant damage to his leg and couldn't play anymore he would've found out what is meant by "No contract is guaranteed", the Eagles would've cut ties with him without compensation.

TO did his part to win a SB and proved that he's a League Superstar, now he's looking to be paid like one of the League's top players.

[MDFINFAN]

One thing I have observed for the better part of a month has been everyone's willingness to jump all over Terrell Owens and his contract dispute. Now, I will start off by staying that I hate TO. I dont respect him as a person.... but at the same time, he is a big time player. The truth is, it woudlnt matter who we were talking about here, because my problem is with the principal.

Many of you are angry that he is holidng out for more money. He signed a contract, and should play it out. I 100% agree with that. However... a lot of you are also quick to say that Mike Williams should take a pay cut since he has not performed well enough to make 8 mill this year. That is a hypocritcal line of reasoning. Contracts worth both ways. The players should honor a contract even if he is worth more than it... and the team should honor it even if the player is not worth it.

------------

Ok, point 2. We as billszone members constantly talk about players who are out of the game for more than a year. QB's RB's WR's etc... Any mention of a player coming back after 2 years (ricky, boston, etc most recently), we immediately throw out the "He hasnt played in 2 years... he's gonna suck!"

Well... those same people are trying to push Henry (who, for the most part hasnt played in 2 years) onto teams looking for a #1 RB. At the same time, we are hypocritical saying that we would never want TH to be our starter, but yet fully expect other teams to accept him as theirs? Either he is good enough to start in the NFL or he is not. My personal opionon is that he is a lower half back... meaning there are at least 15 RB's better than him. But some of you are trying to pawn him off as this great RB who just lost out to an even better RB.

Fact is, TH was never that good. He's great between the tackles... but any play that requires speed and agility.. forget about it. Throw in his fumblitis, and you have a middle of the pack back who is only good enough for a backup role... which is what he has right now.

Ok, I'm done.. flame away! :blowup:


Excellent post Pride, I could subsitute and put this on the finheaven board as well.