Vic Carruci mentions Bills

[Kerr]

Not sure if it had been posted already.

The Bills haven't addressed their left tackle position, with so far the most notable of the team options being center Trey Teague (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12756), backup Mike Gandy (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235212) and undrafted free agent Jason Peters (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493695). Has Tom Donahoe made a serious error in judgment not going after someone in free agency or the draft, or do you hold with the belief that line coach Jim McNally can spin straw into gold?
--Richard; Stratford, Ont.

I would have preferred that the Bills use one of their first two draft picks on an offensive lineman rather than a receiver ( Roscoe Parrish (http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/parrish_roscoe)) and a tight end ( Kevin Everett (http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/everett_kevin) ).

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<!--Deployed By ellenl 7.17.2003 11:36:52 Log:20030717113648_3230_ellenl--> But I don't believe that Donahoe made a serious error in judgment. Parrish has the speed to give the Bills another game-breaker in addition to Eric Moulds (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1196) and Lee Evans (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/492932). Although he had the misfortune of suffering a serious knee injury in minicamp, Everett had the potential to provide much-needed play-making help at a position where the Bills already had two players recovering from serious knee injuries.

It also isn't a stretch for the Bills to look to McNally to develop at least a solid starting tackle and a couple of decent reserves from the candidates on the roster. McNally is a talented-enough coach to help a player realize every ounce of his ability.

Another point worth noting is that new starter J.P. Losman (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493000) brings far more mobility to the quarterback position than the Bills had with Drew Bledsoe (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1041), and between his scrambling and the designed rollout plays that will be incorporated into the offense, the line conceivably should have fewer problems in pass protection. The operative word is "conceivably," because Losman's inexperience will likely present its own share of challenges for the line in the early going.

[ShadowHawk7]

cool. I agree.

[Bling]

Parrish has the speed to give the Bills another game-breaker

[hudella]

Bling, have you ever noticed that ur boy carlos delgato looks alot like hootie.

[SabreEleven]

Bling, have you ever noticed that ur boy carlos delgato looks alot like hootie.

I was thinking he looked more like a blow fish.

[Canadian'eh!]

I think the Bills have to move Teague out to LT. He's knows the position and although he did a better job at C last year thanks to Mouse, I also though Tucker did well enough at C to merit a shot to start there. meaning we could go with:

Teague-Anderson-Tucker-Villarial-Williams

Like Carucci said... with JP's rollouts and mobility that line (being coached by McNally) should be good enough for our purposes.

I'd still like to see Shelton brought in and Tucker stick top being depth with Gandy, and L Smith... but if they decide not to bring in Shelton, I'd settle for bringin back Marcus Price who i though did a great job filling in for Jonas and Mike at times last year.

[Devin]

I like that Line........well I like it better than anything else out there. Gandy is a backup at best.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I don't want to set off another "range war" over the offensive line, but I really don't understand why so many Bills fans are down on Gandy and Peters and don't believe that Coach McNally can get them to play well at the LT position.

Would everyone be more comfortable if the Bills had re-signed J.Jennings? Why?

In previous threads on this subject it has been pointed out that Gandy was drafted before J.Jennings and that, in his last full season as starter at LT for the Bears, Gandy had posted similar numbers to those of Jennings in terms of sacks given up, penalties, etc. Indeed, Gandy has as many starts at LT as T.Teague and had better numbers at the position than Teague as a starter.

While many have pointed to the fact that Gandy lost his starting LT job and was moved to OG as proof that Gandy is nothing more than a journeyman O-lineman at this point, few have noted that he was replaced at LT by M.Columbo, a 1st round draft pick of the Bears (who the Bears are paying a large salary to!) after the Bears had signed an All-Pro RT, John Tait. With those two ahead of him on the depth chart, no wonder the Bears tried to move Gandy to OG. While it is true that, after switching to OG, Gandy was cut by the Bears and later by the Panthers, it was because he was injured: both teams suffered a rash of injuries to their offensive linemen during the course of last season and were forced to cut injured players in order to sign healthy O-linemen.

Certainly the fact that Gandy has suffered serious injuries that have caused him to miss significant playing time the last two seasons is a matter of concern--if he is the Bills' starting LT, will he be able to hold up for a whole season?--but the fact that he lost his starting LT job after an injury to a much larger (Columbo is 6'8", 325) first round draft choice and, then, after being injured again, got caught up in a "numbers game" that resulted in his being cut in favor of healthy players that were needed in mid-season does not necessarily mean that Gandy lacks the talent to play the LT position when healthy. While he appears to be even more injury prone than Jennings--who also had a tendency to miss time due to injury--the evidence seems to suggest that he is similar to Jennings in talent (if the Bills had an All-Pro at RT and had selected a 6'8", 325, LT in the first round, don't you think that they would have asked Jennings to move inside, after a couple of years, too!?!).

Aside from the fact that Gandy has been hurt more than Jennings, the difference appears to be that we are all familiar with Jennings and know what he can do, while, for the most part, we really haven't seen Gandy play and don't know whether he can do the job or not. And, the same goes for J.Peters.

A lot of fun has been made of those who have suggested that Peters may very well end up being the Bills' starting LT of the future and some have scoffed at the notion that a UDFA like Peters can have the potential to be anything more than an average offensive lineman. To those who question whether a former TE, like Peters, can become a good LT, I have two things to say: 1.) Paul Seymour did, and 2.) when one of the best offensive line coaches in the NFL says that Peters has all the talent you could want in an OT, I would tend to believe him. And, to those who can't believe that a raw talent good enough to be a star offensive lineman in the NFL would go undrafted for 7 rounds, let me just say that Howard "House" Ballard wasn't drafted until the 8th round and, in today's 7 round draft, would have been a UDFA. And, while it is true that Peters suffers from a lack of intelligence, "House" wasn't noted for exactly being a genius, either.

The truth is that we fans don't know how well Gandy or Peters can play LT (or will be able to play LT when the season starts). We haven't seen them play. I'm not going to say that they are going to be great or that they are going to be horrible--the truth is that, at this point, I don't know. And, neither do most Bills fans. We only know that we haven't seen them play and, because of that, a lot of Bills fans are assuming that they won't be able to play the LT position as well as Jennings did--people who have never seen Gandy play a down at LT are labeling him "garbage" or a "journeyman". But, we don't know that that is going to be the case.

What I do know is that the coaching staff has seen both of them play and practice a lot more than most of us have and that not only are they supposed to better judges of what these guys can do because that is their jobs, but their jobs depend upon them being correct in their evaluations. I also know, based not just on the improvement in the Bills O-line over the course of last season, but on watching the NY Giants' offensive lines while McNally was in NYC, that Coach McNally is an excellent offensive line coach who has gotten his units to perform a lot better than anyone thought that they could. As a result, I trust McNally's evaluation of Gandy and Peters (and Shelton, too) whatever it is (if he thinks they can get the job done or if he thinks that they can't and the team needs to bring in someone else, either way) and I believe that Carruci is correct in saying that, if he goes with them, McNally will get them to realize every ounce of the talent that they have. Sure I'd like to see the Bills go into this season with their offensive line as a "you-can-bet-the-ranch-on-it" "sure thing" dominating unit, but I've also been a fan long enough to know that that is not always going to be the case. Sometimes you have to trust the coaches to know and do their jobs and wait to see what develops.

If J.Jennings was an All-Pro LT I could see thinking that there's no way that Gandy and Peters could replace him. But, he wasn't and for all we, as fans, know right now, they may be able to play the position just as well or better than he did. That's what we're going to have to wait to see--and that's why they play the games.

[Jan Reimers]

Teague is a better center than LT, and his move to tackle will weaken us at both positions.

He was the product of a good O line system at Denver, a system which covers up individual weaknesses. The Broncos let him walk without a fight when he became a free agent, and he was unable to win the LT job in Buffalo.

I don't understand why so many people think Teague - who has become a very good center - is the answer at LT. Gandy started as many games there in Chicago as Teague did in Denver.

Teague will only be at LT if Gandy (or Peters) prove they can't play there.

[BillsFan-N-AZ]

I don't want to set off another "range war" over the offensive line, but I really don't understand why so many Bills fans are down on Gandy and Peters and don't believe that Coach McNally can get them to play well at the LT position.

Would everyone be more comfortable if the Bills had re-signed J.Jennings? Why?

In previous threads on this subject it has been pointed out that Gandy was drafted before J.Jennings and that, in his last full season as starter at LT for the Bears, Gandy had posted similar numbers to those of Jennings in terms of sacks given up, penalties, etc. Indeed, Gandy has as many starts at LT as T.Teague and had better numbers at the position than Teague as a starter.

While many have pointed to the fact that Gandy lost his starting LT job and was moved to OG as proof that Gandy is nothing more than a journeyman O-lineman at this point, few have noted that he was replaced at LT by M.Columbo, a 1st round draft pick of the Bears (who the Bears are paying a large salary to!) after the Bears had signed an All-Pro RT, John Tait. With those two ahead of him on the depth chart, no wonder the Bears tried to move Gandy to OG. While it is true that, after switching to OG, Gandy was cut by the Bears and later by the Panthers, it was because he was injured: both teams suffered a rash of injuries to their offensive linemen during the course of last season and were forced to cut injured players in order to sign healthy O-linemen.

Certainly the fact that Gandy has suffered serious injuries that have caused him to miss significant playing time the last two seasons is a matter of concern--if he is the Bills' starting LT, will he be able to hold up for a whole season?--but the fact that he lost his starting LT job after an injury to a much larger (Columbo is 6'8", 325) first round draft choice and, then, after being injured again, got caught up in a "numbers game" that resulted in his being cut in favor of healthy players that were needed in mid-season does not necessarily mean that Gandy lacks the talent to play the LT position when healthy. While he appears to be even more injury prone than Jennings--who also had a tendency to miss time due to injury--the evidence seems to suggest that he is similar to Jennings in talent (if the Bills had an All-Pro at RT and had selected a 6'8", 325, LT in the first round, don't you think that they would have asked Jennings to move inside, after a couple of years, too!?!).

Aside from the fact that Gandy has been hurt more than Jennings, the difference appears to be that we are all familiar with Jennings and know what he can do, while, for the most part, we really haven't seen Gandy play and don't know whether he can do the job or not. And, the same goes for J.Peters.

A lot of fun has been made of those who have suggested that Peters may very well end up being the Bills' starting LT of the future and some have scoffed at the notion that a UDFA like Peters can have the potential to be anything more than an average offensive lineman. To those who question whether a former TE, like Peters, can become a good LT, I have two things to say: 1.) Paul Seymour did, and 2.) when one of the best offensive line coaches in the NFL says that Peters has all the talent you could want in an OT, I would tend to believe him. And, to those who can't believe that a raw talent good enough to be a star offensive lineman in the NFL would go undrafted for 7 rounds, let me just say that Howard "House" Ballard wasn't drafted until the 8th round and, in today's 7 round draft, would have been a UDFA. And, while it is true that Peters suffers from a lack of intelligence, "House" wasn't noted for exactly being a genius, either.

The truth is that we fans don't know how well Gandy or Peters can play LT (or will be able to play LT when the season starts). We haven't seen them play. I'm not going to say that they are going to be great or that they are going to be horrible--the truth is that, at this point, I don't know. And, neither do most Bills fans. We only know that we haven't seen them play and, because of that, a lot of Bills fans are assuming that they won't be able to play the LT position as well as Jennings did--people who have never seen Gandy play a down at LT are labeling him "garbage" or a "journeyman". But, we don't know that that is going to be the case.

What I do know is that the coaching staff has seen both of them play and practice a lot more than most of us have and that not only are they supposed to better judges of what these guys can do because that is their jobs, but their jobs depend upon them being correct in their evaluations. I also know, based not just on the improvement in the Bills O-line over the course of last season, but on watching the NY Giants' offensive lines while McNally was in NYC, that Coach McNally is an excellent offensive line coach who has gotten his units to perform a lot better than anyone thought that they could. As a result, I trust McNally's evaluation of Gandy and Peters (and Shelton, too) whatever it is (if he thinks they can get the job done or if he thinks that they can't and the team needs to bring in someone else, either way) and I believe that Carruci is correct in saying that, if he goes with them, McNally will get them to realize every ounce of the talent that they have. Sure I'd like to see the Bills go into this season with their offensive line as a "you-can-bet-the-ranch-on-it" "sure thing" dominating unit, but I've also been a fan long enough to know that that is not always going to be the case. Sometimes you have to trust the coaches to know and do their jobs and wait to see what develops.

If J.Jennings was an All-Pro LT I could see thinking that there's no way that Gandy and Peters could replace him. But, he wasn't and for all we, as fans, know right now, they may be able to play the position just as well or better than he did. That's what we're going to have to wait to see--and that's why they play the games.

This post is awesome! one of the better if not the BEST post ( educated opinion) I've seen on our OL this off season! I agree fully, let's see how the line shape up I'm sure we'll be fine GO BILLS:10: :bow:

[jamze132]

Bling, have you ever noticed that ur boy carlos delgato looks alot like hootie.
Delgado

[Mr. Cynical]

I would have preferred that the Bills use one of their first two draft picks on an offensive lineman rather than a receiver ( Roscoe Parrish (http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/parrish_roscoe)) and a tight end ( Kevin Everett (http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/everett_kevin) ). So would I. :sigh:

[MDFINFAN]

I don't want to set off another "range war" over the offensive line, but I really don't understand why so many Bills fans are down on Gandy and Peters and don't believe that Coach McNally can get them to play well at the LT position.

Would everyone be more comfortable if the Bills had re-signed J.Jennings? Why?

In previous threads on this subject it has been pointed out that Gandy was drafted before J.Jennings and that, in his last full season as starter at LT for the Bears, Gandy had posted similar numbers to those of Jennings in terms of sacks given up, penalties, etc. Indeed, Gandy has as many starts at LT as T.Teague and had better numbers at the position than Teague as a starter.

While many have pointed to the fact that Gandy lost his starting LT job and was moved to OG as proof that Gandy is nothing more than a journeyman O-lineman at this point, few have noted that he was replaced at LT by M.Columbo, a 1st round draft pick of the Bears (who the Bears are paying a large salary to!) after the Bears had signed an All-Pro RT, John Tait. With those two ahead of him on the depth chart, no wonder the Bears tried to move Gandy to OG. While it is true that, after switching to OG, Gandy was cut by the Bears and later by the Panthers, it was because he was injured: both teams suffered a rash of injuries to their offensive linemen during the course of last season and were forced to cut injured players in order to sign healthy O-linemen.

Certainly the fact that Gandy has suffered serious injuries that have caused him to miss significant playing time the last two seasons is a matter of concern--if he is the Bills' starting LT, will he be able to hold up for a whole season?--but the fact that he lost his starting LT job after an injury to a much larger (Columbo is 6'8", 325) first round draft choice and, then, after being injured again, got caught up in a "numbers game" that resulted in his being cut in favor of healthy players that were needed in mid-season does not necessarily mean that Gandy lacks the talent to play the LT position when healthy. While he appears to be even more injury prone than Jennings--who also had a tendency to miss time due to injury--the evidence seems to suggest that he is similar to Jennings in talent (if the Bills had an All-Pro at RT and had selected a 6'8", 325, LT in the first round, don't you think that they would have asked Jennings to move inside, after a couple of years, too!?!).

Aside from the fact that Gandy has been hurt more than Jennings, the difference appears to be that we are all familiar with Jennings and know what he can do, while, for the most part, we really haven't seen Gandy play and don't know whether he can do the job or not. And, the same goes for J.Peters.

A lot of fun has been made of those who have suggested that Peters may very well end up being the Bills' starting LT of the future and some have scoffed at the notion that a UDFA like Peters can have the potential to be anything more than an average offensive lineman. To those who question whether a former TE, like Peters, can become a good LT, I have two things to say: 1.) Paul Seymour did, and 2.) when one of the best offensive line coaches in the NFL says that Peters has all the talent you could want in an OT, I would tend to believe him. And, to those who can't believe that a raw talent good enough to be a star offensive lineman in the NFL would go undrafted for 7 rounds, let me just say that Howard "House" Ballard wasn't drafted until the 8th round and, in today's 7 round draft, would have been a UDFA. And, while it is true that Peters suffers from a lack of intelligence, "House" wasn't noted for exactly being a genius, either.

The truth is that we fans don't know how well Gandy or Peters can play LT (or will be able to play LT when the season starts). We haven't seen them play. I'm not going to say that they are going to be great or that they are going to be horrible--the truth is that, at this point, I don't know. And, neither do most Bills fans. We only know that we haven't seen them play and, because of that, a lot of Bills fans are assuming that they won't be able to play the LT position as well as Jennings did--people who have never seen Gandy play a down at LT are labeling him "garbage" or a "journeyman". But, we don't know that that is going to be the case.

What I do know is that the coaching staff has seen both of them play and practice a lot more than most of us have and that not only are they supposed to better judges of what these guys can do because that is their jobs, but their jobs depend upon them being correct in their evaluations. I also know, based not just on the improvement in the Bills O-line over the course of last season, but on watching the NY Giants' offensive lines while McNally was in NYC, that Coach McNally is an excellent offensive line coach who has gotten his units to perform a lot better than anyone thought that they could. As a result, I trust McNally's evaluation of Gandy and Peters (and Shelton, too) whatever it is (if he thinks they can get the job done or if he thinks that they can't and the team needs to bring in someone else, either way) and I believe that Carruci is correct in saying that, if he goes with them, McNally will get them to realize every ounce of the talent that they have. Sure I'd like to see the Bills go into this season with their offensive line as a "you-can-bet-the-ranch-on-it" "sure thing" dominating unit, but I've also been a fan long enough to know that that is not always going to be the case. Sometimes you have to trust the coaches to know and do their jobs and wait to see what develops.

If J.Jennings was an All-Pro LT I could see thinking that there's no way that Gandy and Peters could replace him. But, he wasn't and for all we, as fans, know right now, they may be able to play the position just as well or better than he did. That's what we're going to have to wait to see--and that's why they play the games.


And sometimes it's not the coaches evaluation, but the cap's reality that keeps teams from making moves they rather make..I think your team is waiting for the june cuts to make a final decisions, but you're playing the games the phins did 2 years ago with the process demonstrated right now..and that my friend wasn't a good process.

[BuffaloRanger]

For a team that hasn't made the playoffs in years I will always take the "SHOW ME SOMETHING" position, over the "trust the management" position. I see the glass as half full, with cracks in it. Some of you want to see the glass, as sparkling crystal overflowing with potential.

How do I know a player won't be good? How do you or anyone know he will be good? Exactly. Nobody knows.

JP could be the NFL MVP this year. He has a good attitude. Wyche mentored MVP QBs in the past. He certainly could have a great year. But a MVP year? The odds are not in his favor.

Lindell may start attempting and making kicks longer than 40 yards. Maybe even be trusted to kick a 50 ydr! He may start parking his kickoffs in the endzone, rather than the 10 yd line. He may hit clutch 28 yd kicks in important games. Maybe all this will happen. But the odds are not in his favor.

My opinion on Gandy is based on percentages. Players with great potential dont' get cut. Especially players with potential to play Tackle. Teams make room to keep players like that. Jennings had big name recognition, even though the Bills Oline was considered very, very, average. Yes, the 49ers way overpaid him. Gandy's name was not mentioned by any football expert on any website as a coveted (or even noticed) FA.

Were other GMs of lesser ability than TD scrambling to pick up a very inexpensive LT to improve their respective teams? No.

The Bills front office has forgotten more about football than I'll ever know, but at the time of the signing did it create a blip on any sports website as a "good move". No. (One small blurb about the Bills signing a 3rd string LT for depth.)

Is it likely that TD snatched a quality starting LT out from under every other GMs nose, with out the media even noticing. No.

He may play well. He may be a good answer or stop gap measure for a couple years. But the odds are not in his favor.

If Gandy has a good year than this is TDs greatest offseason move by far.


And Carucci isn't going to overly criticize Bills front office moves. He's a Buffalo guy.