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View Full Version : Heres Wishing We Had Nugent!



jamze132
05-26-2005, 02:46 PM
It very well may turn out to be one of the best picks in the draft. If this guy pans out like expected, he may a Vinateiri. Doesn't that kind of suck having those two in the same division and we are stuck with Lindel? I am willing to bet all of my zonebucks that this season alone, The Jets and Pats will beat us with a contributing factor, the kickers on both teams.

gr8slayer
05-26-2005, 02:50 PM
Im not that worried about Lindell.

TedMock
05-26-2005, 02:58 PM
If Nugent wins 2 or 3 games each year, he's well worth it. Adam V. made his name with 2 or 3 clutch kicks each year.

Mr. Miyagi
05-26-2005, 03:00 PM
Im not that worried about Lindell.
Honestly, me neither.

Tatonka
05-26-2005, 03:25 PM
he wont be like vinateri.. because vinetari and akers, along with every other good kicker in the league besides janakowski (who is barely above average) are all UNDRAFTED FREE AGENTS... so no.. nugent wont ever be like vinateri.

nugent hasnt even kicked in a game yet and he is good? who is to say that any other kicker couldnt win a few games for them too? brien was good all year except for his one awful game. sorry.. kickers are not worth 1st day draft picks.

LifetimeBillsFan
05-27-2005, 02:42 AM
BTW: for those who missed it--Nugent missed his first FG try in the Jets mini-camp (if I remember correctly, it was a 40 or 42 yarder).

According to the NY papers at the time, he did improve after that inauspicious start, but he wasn't automatic on all of his kicks. Still, at least they let him try a kick over 40 yards, it seems like M.Mularkey doesn't have enough confidence in Lindell to hit one at that distance....and neither do I.

Jan Reimers
05-27-2005, 03:11 AM
he wont be like vinateri.. because vinetari and akers, along with every other good kicker in the league besides janakowski (who is barely above average) are all UNDRAFTED FREE AGENTS... so no.. nugent wont ever be like vinateri.

nugent hasnt even kicked in a game yet and he is good? who is to say that any other kicker couldnt win a few games for them too? brien was good all year except for his one awful game. sorry.. kickers are not worth 1st day draft picks.
T, I agree completely.

ryjam282
05-27-2005, 06:06 AM
brien was good all year except for his one awful game. sorry..


Brien? :scratch:

:peace:

TheGhostofJimKelly
05-27-2005, 06:07 AM
Why are you going to wish you had Nugent? It isn't like the Bills passed on him. If you can wish for anyone in the league drafted before him I can wish for anyone drafted before the Bills.

Tatonka
05-27-2005, 07:21 AM
BTW: for those who missed it--Nugent missed his first FG try in the Jets mini-camp (if I remember correctly, it was a 40 or 42 yarder).

According to the NY papers at the time, he did improve after that inauspicious start, but he wasn't automatic on all of his kicks. Still, at least they let him try a kick over 40 yards, it seems like M.Mularkey doesn't have enough confidence in Lindell to hit one at that distance....and neither do I.


thats impossible! nugent will never miss anything! he is the best kicker ever!

:hockey:

TedMock
05-27-2005, 08:42 AM
he wont be like vinateri.. because vinetari and akers, along with every other good kicker in the league besides janakowski (who is barely above average) are all UNDRAFTED FREE AGENTS... so no.. nugent wont ever be like vinateri.

nugent hasnt even kicked in a game yet and he is good? who is to say that any other kicker couldnt win a few games for them too? brien was good all year except for his one awful game. sorry.. kickers are not worth 1st day draft picks.

That's a very good point about Akers and Vinatieri not being drafted. I still think that Nugent could prove his being worth that pick, although I would never do that as of now. Show me several years of consistantly hammering in clutch kicks and we'll talk. If he does do that a few times a year, then I'll say "yes, he was worth it." I still would not have been happy had we made that pick if the option was there.

jamze132
05-27-2005, 08:46 AM
Go ahead and poke your fun. Isn't it kind of ironic that the 2 pro bowl kickers where also in the superbowl? I just don't understand why some people don't think that the kicker is an important position. So what if he isn't in the trenches or catching passes over the middle. The kicker can make or break your team. As we saw a few times last year throughout the NFL. Do I need to mention the momentum changing 29 yarder?

TheGhostofJimKelly
05-27-2005, 08:50 AM
Go ahead and poke your fun. Isn't it kind of ironic that the 2 pro bowl kickers where also in the superbowl? I just don't understand why some people don't think that the kicker is an important position. So what if he isn't in the trenches or catching passes over the middle. The kicker can make or break your team. As we saw a few times last year throughout the NFL. Do I need to mention the momentum changing 29 yarder?

Please quote one person that was saying the kicker position isn't important.

colin
05-27-2005, 09:00 AM
the reason why no one picks kickers is that they tend to all have the same damn ability -- it comes down to mental state and confidence and since they are prone to being head cases they go up and down like yo yos.

with other players, they might even be head cases, but they often posses rare physical abilities. kickers are nearly all the same skinny dude

Tatonka
05-27-2005, 11:21 AM
Go ahead and poke your fun. Isn't it kind of ironic that the 2 pro bowl kickers where also in the superbowl? I just don't understand why some people don't think that the kicker is an important position. So what if he isn't in the trenches or catching passes over the middle. The kicker can make or break your team. As we saw a few times last year throughout the NFL. Do I need to mention the momentum changing 29 yarder?


not a single person said that kickers were not important.. you need to reread what is being stated..

it is a simple fact.. you dont have to waste draft picks on kickers.. the best kickers in the nfl are guys that were on the streets.. not drafted on day one.. what the **** is so hard to understand about that statement..

you made the damn point yourself.. the two probowl kickers were in the superbowl.. great! they also didnt hear their names called in the draft..

just because you draft a guy doesnt mean he is going to hit clutch kicks in the nfl.. simple as that.

:crap:

jamze132
05-28-2005, 09:32 AM
just because you draft a guy doesnt mean he is going to hit clutch kicks in the nfl.. simple as that.

:crap:

Just because you draft a QB doesn't mean he's going to throw TDs either. But would you rather have a QB with a history of performing or a QB "off the streets'?

It's the same thing. I understand your point on not taking a kicker on day 1. But the times are changing. You have to open your mind a little and think outside the box. If we need a kicker bad and the best kicker in college is receiving a day 1 grade than whats the problem. Obviously he's that good.

bacardi
05-28-2005, 03:39 PM
a kicker alone does not make the difference, there has been no stupider pick than Newgent going so early, he would have prob have been their later anyway. kickers are a dime a dozen, and there is nothing wrong with lindell

buffalofan19
05-28-2005, 06:49 PM
Just because you draft a QB doesn't mean he's going to throw TDs either. But would you rather have a QB with a history of performing or a QB "off the streets'?

It's the same thing. I understand your point on not taking a kicker on day 1. But the times are changing. You have to open your mind a little and think outside the box. If we need a kicker bad and the best kicker in college is receiving a day 1 grade than whats the problem. Obviously he's that good.

There were also other needs that had to be addressed. Kicker falls into the "it would be nice to upgrade but it's not an absolute necessity" category. While I would like to see Lindell out, I am not so desperate as to use a day 1 pick on a kicker. Roscoe Parrish is going to serve the Bills better than Nugent would have. Plus, as TGOJK said, he was gone by the time the Bills were on the clock. I have my reservations about picking a kicker on day one to begin with... I sure as hell am not going to trade up for one. No way

Bills 4 life
05-28-2005, 06:58 PM
a kicker alone does not make the difference, there has been no stupider pick than Newgent going so early, he would have prob have been their later anyway. kickers are a dime a dozen, and there is nothing wrong with lindell
WRONGGGGGGGGGGGG

Sportsuser101
05-28-2005, 08:18 PM
lol drafting a kicker on day 1 is too funny.

mysticsoto
05-28-2005, 10:10 PM
I can't believe this is still being argued over. We had absolutely no chance of getting Nugent - even if we had wanted to. I, too, personally believe the Jets made a mistake in taking him, but I'm glad they did. As a result, I don't feel they improved in other areas of their team. Which is a good thing for us. I felt we should have grabbed Justin Miller (the CB they grabbed in the 3rd) but we didn't and clearly we didn't think that highly of him if we didn't. So all in all, I'm glad they did what they did.

Had Minnesota grabbed him, it probably would have looked like a good move for them for the simple reason that they had 2 picks in the 1st round not to mention a million others afterward, and therefore could affored to "splurge" with their picks!

LifetimeBillsFan
05-29-2005, 06:41 AM
I've been a big fan of PKs going back to the days of Don Chandler, Pat Summerall (yes, that P.Summerall--PK for the Cardinals!), and Pete Gogolak and, as a result, I follow the PK's that I get to see in college a lot more closely than most. And, I have to say that I absolutely loved what I have seen of M.Nugent while he was at Ohio State--I liked him even a tad more than S.Janikowski at the same stage--and I think that the guy can be a real weapon for the NY Jets.

I can also tell you that I don't like R.Lindell: I think that he is a less reliable-in-the-clutch version of Scott Norwood and, because the coaching staff has little confidence in his ability to hit from over 40 yards, I believe that he is, overall, a liability to the team. And, I hope that the Bills will find a suitable replacement for him.

That being said, however, I don't think Nugent was worth a # 1 pick--Jan Stenerud is the only PK that I would ever have rated that high--and, with the Bills' other needs, I don't think he was worth more than a 3rd round pick to them.

Why? Because this was one of the best draft classes in years for PKs and, more importantly, because kicking in the NFL is very different than kicking in college and success on the college level does not necessarily translate to success on the pro level--just ask the team that drafted Steve Little, one of the strongest legged, best PKs to ever come out of college, who flopped as a pro. In addition to the narrower goal-posts and different hash marks, there are things that a PK is asked to do in the NFL that college PKs are not asked to do: as M.Levy points out in his book, the ability to directional kick and to get hang-time on his kickoffs, as well as height and speed, are often more important to the pro PK than getting distance on his kicks. Unless you are sitting there with a stop-watch and able to evaluate the factors that are crucial to success on the pro level, it is pretty hard to know how well even the most successful college PK is going to be able to do in the NFL. That's why spending a high draft pick on a PK is a very risky gamble--even when you are talking about a PK as successful as Nugent was in college.

The question with Nugent, Joe Rheem and some of the other PKs that I really liked coming out in this year's draft is how well and how quickly will they be able to adapt to the additional demands put on them in the NFL. Not many are able to adapt quickly, which is why you often see guys that you never heard of come out of NFLE or free agency to become great PKs in the pros, while other guys who were "automatic" in college fail or become only average PKs in the NFL. The NFL game is so much quicker--particularly in the special teams area--that, even working with a professional coach who knows how to teach what is required of an NFL PK, it can be difficult and take time for a college PK to get to the point where he can be effective as a pro. Some "get it" and some don't and it is very hard to tell which ones will and which ones won't. Now, I'm not saying that Nugent won't become a good PK in the NFL--enough scouts seem to think that he will that I would have to conclude, based on what I have seen of him as well, that he will probably become a pretty good PK. But, will he be in the class of a Vinatieri or Akers, etc.? It's way too early and too hard to tell. Could someone else in this class of PKs end up being better than Nugent? Well, history tells us that that is a very good possibility a couple of years down the road. And, that's why, if your team has other needs to fill, you don't spend that high of a draft choice on a PK, even though the kicking game is as important to a team's success as its defense and offense.

BTW: An example of a PK, who might end up being available as a FA during training camp, that has developed into a much better PK than he was and that I thought he would be is Todd France, from TB, who is currently the leading PK in NFLE. Here are his current numbers:

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg1 align=middle><TD>Player</TD><TD>1-19</TD><TD>20-29</TD><TD>30-39</TD><TD>40-49</TD><TD>50+</TD><TD>Total</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>France, T (TB)</TD><TD align=middle>0-0</TD><TD align=middle>4-4</TD><TD align=middle>8-10</TD><TD align=middle>8-11</TD><TD align=middle>2-4</TD><TD align=middle>22-29





</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
He is also 14 for 14 on PATs.

The 8-10 from 30-39 yards out could be a matter of concern, but his long distance numbers are pretty decent. He might be worth a look, if he isn't worn out by the end of the NFLE season, if he gets cut by the Bucs. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bills are keeping an eye on him at this point.

jamze132
05-29-2005, 08:53 AM
There are some good points being made on this subject. But I think I am being misunderstood. What I am trying to say is that I wish we had a kicker with the potential of Nugent. I do wish we had drafted him. However I am well aware of the fact that he was off the board before we even had a pick. In no way, shape, or form am I saying that we should have traded up to get him. I don't think that would be smart, but it would have been nice to have the luxury of taking a kicker with his potential that early in the draft. I really think the Jets spent there pick well. Am I defending the Jets decision to choose a kicker in the 2nd round? Maybe so, but it doesn't change the fact that I wish we had him over Lindel.

Meathead
05-29-2005, 09:22 AM
Why you don't draft a kicker high

mysticsoto
08-25-2009, 09:05 AM
I thought people might like to take a look back and laugh at what could have been...Nugent can't beat a hurt Matt Bryant???

________________________________________________________________

From rotoworld:

Even though incumbent K Matt Bryant (hamstring) has been sidelined for about three weeks, Mike Nugent hasn't been able slam the door on their kicking competition.
Nugent has made just two-of-four field goals in the preseason and his kickoffs have just been average. "We still haven't kicked two, so we're not having a competition right now," said coach Raheem Morris. We still think Nugent will win the job, but he's not draft-able in the Bucs' offense anyway.

Mad Bomber
08-25-2009, 11:31 AM
Having Nugent would be awesome.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_H8-vWfu3c6k/RvpxGsG6XzI/AAAAAAAAAGI/-BrgLmuWFL8/s400/Ted+Nugent.jpg

ServoBillieves
08-25-2009, 12:45 PM
Kicker WAS a huge need at the time wasn't it...

jamze132
08-25-2009, 04:35 PM
I thought people might like to take a look back and laugh at what could have been...Nugent can't beat a hurt Matt Bryant???

________________________________________________________________

From rotoworld:

Even though incumbent K Matt Bryant (hamstring) has been sidelined for about three weeks, Mike Nugent hasn't been able slam the door on their kicking competition.
Nugent has made just two-of-four field goals in the preseason and his kickoffs have just been average. "We still haven't kicked two, so we're not having a competition right now," said coach Raheem Morris. We still think Nugent will win the job, but he's not draft-able in the Bucs' offense anyway.
wow. You went back a long way to try and embarrass me... :rofl: