If franchise location is such a good idea...

[OpIv37]

why do most of the cities that lose a team end up getting a team back? St. Louis, Baltimore, Cleveland and Houston come immediately to mind. I think the NFL does a poor job of assessing the strength of their current markets. If untapped markets exist, expansion or regional promotion of teams should be considered instead of relocation.

And for the record- LA had two teams and couldn't support either one. They don't deserve an NFL franchise.

[Mudflap1]

why do most of the cities that lose a team end up getting a team back? St. Louis, Baltimore, Cleveland and Houston come immediately to mind. I think the NFL does a poor job of assessing the strength of their current markets. If untapped markets exist, expansion or regional promotion of teams should be considered instead of relocation.

And for the record- LA had two teams and couldn't support either one. They don't deserve an NFL franchise.

Aren't you contradicting yourself? St. Louis, Baltimore, Cleveland, and Houston deserve teams because they can support them based upon their markets, but Los Angeles, the 2nd largest city in the U.S. does not?

I happen to live in Los Angeles. I am a Bills fan, not a Raiders or Rams fan. However, there's something to be said for not wanting to drive an hour or hour and a half each way to go see a crappy team in a crappy stadium in a very dangerous area of town (Raiders -- Coliseum), or drive to Anaheim (another run down area at the time -- has since had a rebirth) with another run down stadium (again, has since been seriously renovated).

If you could sit out on your deck, watch the game on television, and be across the street from the ocean with sunny and 75 degree weather everyday, you wouldn't be in a big hurry to go see those games either.

You gotta understand something about Los Angeles, it's not that the fans are bad, USC and UCLA pack their games usually, it's that the city is so spread out it takes a long time to get to the games. Factor in traffic, bad areas, and yes, bad teams, and that's why there was a loss of interest. The Angels draw great, so do the Dodgers. Sure, they're both good, but the Dodgers draw well even when they're bad. So do the Lakers. It's all about the marketing. If you have a nice venue, do some nice promotion, and it's a nice area/accessible area, there will be support. But if you don't, there are too many things to do out here, and people will lose interest and do something else, or at least stay at home and watch the game.

In addition, those other cities (including Los Angeles) lost their teams for business reasons. Oakland offered more money to bring back the Raiders. Can you seriously argue that Al Davis is NOT a bastard of some sorts? And Georgia Frontiere? Please. She isn't going to win owner of the year anytime soon. Bill Bidwell with the St. Louis Cardinals? Robert Irsay with the Baltimore Colts? None of these guys are all-star owners. It's more than just fan participation. Lots of times you have to look at the owners, and what motives and business deals they have on the table.

Jon

[The_Philster]

Technically, both the teams that were in LA were stolen from other cities in the first place

[OpIv37]

Actually, I wasn't contradicting myself at all. You just said the fan base is there in LA, but the stadiums were difficult and unsafe and the teams sucked. Well, wouldn't it have made more sense and cost less money for the NFL to renovate the stadiums and find ways to make them more accessible than to move across the state/country and alienate fans? Wouldn't it have been better to market the LA Raiders to Oakland rather than making them the Oakland Raiders? By relocating, the NFL took themselves out of the second largest market in the country. Now, the only ways to get back in are to water down the league through expansion or alienate more fans by moving a team to LA.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Aren't you contradicting yourself? St. Louis, Baltimore, Cleveland, and Houston deserve teams because they can support them based upon their markets, but Los Angeles, the 2nd largest city in the U.S. does not?

I happen to live in Los Angeles. I am a Bills fan, not a Raiders or Rams fan. However, there's something to be said for not wanting to drive an hour or hour and a half each way to go see a crappy team in a crappy stadium in a very dangerous area of town (Raiders -- Coliseum), or drive to Anaheim (another run down area at the time -- has since had a rebirth) with another run down stadium (again, has since been seriously renovated).

If you could sit out on your deck, watch the game on television, and be across the street from the ocean with sunny and 75 degree weather everyday, you wouldn't be in a big hurry to go see those games either.

You gotta understand something about Los Angeles, it's not that the fans are bad, USC and UCLA pack their games usually, it's that the city is so spread out it takes a long time to get to the games. Factor in traffic, bad areas, and yes, bad teams, and that's why there was a loss of interest. The Angels draw great, so do the Dodgers. Sure, they're both good, but the Dodgers draw well even when they're bad. So do the Lakers. It's all about the marketing. If you have a nice venue, do some nice promotion, and it's a nice area/accessible area, there will be support. But if you don't, there are too many things to do out here, and people will lose interest and do something else, or at least stay at home and watch the game.

In addition, those other cities (including Los Angeles) lost their teams for business reasons. Oakland offered more money to bring back the Raiders. Can you seriously argue that Al Davis is NOT a bastard of some sorts? And Georgia Frontiere? Please. She isn't going to win owner of the year anytime soon. Bill Bidwell with the St. Louis Cardinals? Robert Irsay with the Baltimore Colts? None of these guys are all-star owners. It's more than just fan participation. Lots of times you have to look at the owners, and what motives and business deals they have on the table.

Jon

**** LOS ANGELES!!!!!

[Mudflap1]

Actually, I wasn't contradicting myself at all. You just said the fan base is there in LA, but the stadiums were difficult and unsafe and the teams sucked. Well, wouldn't it have made more sense and cost less money for the NFL to renovate the stadiums and find ways to make them more accessible than to move across the state/country and alienate fans? Wouldn't it have been better to market the LA Raiders to Oakland rather than making them the Oakland Raiders? By relocating, the NFL took themselves out of the second largest market in the country. Now, the only ways to get back in are to water down the league through expansion or alienate more fans by moving a team to LA.

If you're trying to basically blame the NFL for screwing things up, then I agree with you...

In addition, I'm not politicking for L.A. to get a team, especially at the expense of taking one away from another city. If the NFL one day feels the need to expand, then yes, Los Angeles should be the first city to get a team, granted that the stadium/location issue is resolved.

**** LOS ANGELES!!!!!

To say **** Los Angeles is very hateful and, frankly, ignorant. There are a lot of football fans out here. There are a lot of people that are transplants from other parts of the country that would embrace a team. To just typecast 20 million people as a bunch of hippie/surfer/plastic/whatevers is pretty ridiculous.

Jon

[jamze132]

I think the fan from the small city who pays to see his favorite team play whether they win or lose or it's sunny or raining is the best fan that an owner could ask for.

[gr8slayer]

**** LOS ANGELES!!!!!

Amen!

[Jan Reimers]

Teams should be in markets that support them. Small market teams like Green Bay, Buffalo, Cincy, and Kansas City should be left in place, since they have good fan support.

If the NFL wants a franchise in LA, it should look at moving Arizona, which doesn't draw flies; Atlanta, which draws only when the team wins; or New Orleans, where the owner threatens to leave every 5 minutes.

[LVGrown]

**** LOS ANGELES!!!!!

Amen!

just wondering if ya'll have ever even been to LA? for longer then a week? i personally could care less if the Bills left buffalo because of people like you. I would follow the Bills wherever they went, heres praying for Vegas! People have the nerve to bad mouth LA and then praise NY? Gimme a break, talk about a great group of people!

Erin

[L.A. Playa]

Los Angeles to me is the best city in the US. Culturally diverse, always something to do, plenty of jobs, GREAT WEATHER, and people in these other cities,such as Buffalo should be thanking Los Angeles for not stealing a team froma smaller market. The people who want to bring the NFL back to LA are working with the NFL and not against it. With what I believe will be the LA Coliseum renovation anda new Stadium in Anaheim built Southern California will have 2 NFL franchisesby 2015. So save your little insults on a real city for yourself just because you really hate the little crap town you live in

[OpIv37]

I can't speak for everyone else, but all I was saying was that LA doesn't know how to keep a football franchise. I've got nothing against the city itself- I've been out there before and I enjoyed it. I don't think I'd like to live out there because there's something different about the people that I just can't quite put my finger on, but it was definitely fun to visit and I plan on going back at some point.

[L.A. Playa]

I can't speak for everyone else, but all I was saying was that LA doesn't know how to keep a football franchise. I've got nothing against the city itself- I've been out there before and I enjoyed it. I don't think I'd like to live out there because there's something different about the people that I just can't quite put my finger on, but it was definitely fun to visit and I plan on going back at some point.

Do you really know the history of how Los Angeles lost its teams?? Al Davis
stole the money from a city out her and ran to Oakland after he already had the money in hand he is a crook. And good old Georgia, she is a money hungry idiot. Los Angeles lost teams because of 2 idiot owners not because of fans or lack of fan support and the government out here wisely did not bow down to these idiots. Imagine if Ralph gotpaid $10 Mil to build a new downtown stadium then changed his mind took the money and moved the team to Detroit to be closer to home and got paidfor doing that as well. Thats what scumbag Davis did. So please dont say LA LOST franchises they where THANKFULLY gone by 2 idiot owners

[L.A. Playa]

by the way if ya want to know the character of good old Georgia watch the movie Heaven Can Wait its about her greedy butt

[Bulldog]

So save your little insults on a real city for yourself just because you really hate the little crap town you live in

Different strokes for different folks. Some people may like living in a big city like LA or NYC. Some people prefer to live in or around smaller cities like Buffalo or Rochester. It's all about preference. It all depends on what you're looking for. So while you say Buffalo is crap, it may be perfect for somebody else. Just as others have said LA sucks, it obviously works for you.