The players are aware of the fact ...

[ghz in pittsburgh]

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=366799&category=New

This summarizes it all -
"At the end of the day, we all want win," Vincent said. "The way the system is set up today, every city, even us here in Buffalo with a rookie quarterback, believe we have just as good a shot as anybody else in the National Football League."

Those veterans, those who has survived the NFL (i.e. not one contract and out types), know the difference between a rookie and a seasoned vet, especially at the QB position.

I know people will point to Roethlisberger's success. But I will point the number of years between Dan Marino's successful rookie season and next successful rookie season - Roethlisberger's.

More than anything, Mularkay tied his fate to Losman with the decision to go with him this year. We fans, and most importantly, the whole team is waiting to see how this plays out, with the otherwise pretty solid 2005 Bills.

[wchutalkinboutwillis]

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=366799&category=New

This summarizes it all -
"At the end of the day, we all want win," Vincent said. "The way the system is set up today, every city, even us here in Buffalo with a rookie quarterback, believe we have just as good a shot as anybody else in the National Football League."

Those veterans, those who has survived the NFL (i.e. not one contract and out types), know the difference between a rookie and a seasoned vet, especially at the QB position.

I know people will point to Roethlisberger's success. But I will point the number of years between Dan Marino's successful rookie season and next successful rookie season - Roethlisberger's.

More than anything, Mularkay tied his fate to Losman with the decision to go with him this year. We fans, and most importantly, the whole team is waiting to see how this plays out, with the otherwise pretty solid 2005 Bills.
Good observation but still an honest, harmless mistake by Vincent. I know this isn't the first and I doubt this is the last time that Losman will be referred to as a rookie this year. I think it's good for JP. If he does well, he's a first year starter that's ahead of the curve. If he flounders, he's just a rookie making typical rookie mistakes. He's covered either way. Eventually, TD will make us Billieve that he is a genius. He has a few months to do so.

[Turf]

He's only a rookie cause dickhead broke his leg last year.

[Jan Reimers]

He is not a rookie. He had all of last year to learn and get his feet wet, and spent the entire offseason mastering the playbook, watching film, working out and - most importantly - studying under Sam Wyche, who has developed some great QBs.

[Jan Reimers]

True rookie QBs - those drafted in April, 2005 - have been at most to one minicamp and a couple of OTAs. Most are neither under contract nor cognizant of their teammates' names. The playbook is a mystery and the offensive terminology might as well be Greek.

To compare JP to these guys is ridiculous.

[Meathead]

To all you McFlys out there ...

One can refer to Losman as a rookie starter and be entirely correct.

It's kind of funny how many times this can be said, yet every single instance that the phrase is used it quickly dominates the conversation.

"Losman, the rookie starter, ..."

"He's not a rookie." "Losman isn't a rookie." "He studied for the last year." "Ha, he's not a rookie." "They don't know what they're talking about, he's not a rookie." Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

He could study the playbook, throw practice passes, and watch film every single waking hour of his life from the moment he was drafted and for ten years after that, but guess what? The first time he's a starter he'd still be a rookie starter.

Sooner or later you're just going to have to face the truth - Losman is a rookie and will struggle at times like a rookie. Just like every other quarterback in history.

http://www.ildado.com/craps-strategy-cc.jpg

[alohabillsfan]

He's only a rookie cause dickhead broke his leg last year.
:lmao:

too funny

[Jan Reimers]

I'm not saying JP won't struggle at times, Meathead. Your observation that every QB in history has struggled is, indeed, a classic overstatement of the obvious.

All we "McFlys" are pointing out is that there is a huge difference between a raw rookie and a 2nd year guy who will be a first time starter.

[buffalofan19]

It's probably safe to say that the players still see him as a rookie. The guy still has next to zero experience at the NFL level, he's never started a game or even entered one when the outcome was in doubt. We can say "he's not a rookie, he's had a year of studying under his belt" all we want, but the truth remains that the guy has yet to be out there when it really matters. Hence, the players see him as a rookie. It's kind of like the military. A soldier can have a year or even two of training, excel at it to the highest. However, he is not really seen as a true battle-tested soldier until he actually gets into real combat. That's probably how the Bills players see him right now. He has no experience in the heat of the battle (when it really matters, not mop-up duty), therefore he is probably still a rookie in their eyes.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I think every first year starting QB in the NFL struggles to a certain extent and I think that we should all expect JP to have some struggles along the way.

By the same token, however, JP, while a "rookie starter" is not a "rookie"--and there is a big difference--and that should work, to a certain extent, to his advantage in comparison to rookies who also become starting QBs:

1.) The biggest thing that rookies, at all positions, struggle with coming into the NFL is the speed of the game, which is much faster than the college game. Even though JP only saw limited action in a couple of games in a mop-up role, he has had a chance to experience that speed in the face of a hostile defense (which is different than what a QB sees from his own team in practice) enough that he should no longer be shocked by it in the way that he was when he came into the NE game and that most rookie QBs are their first time out of the box.

2.) There is so much for a QB to learn in an NFL playbook and about playing the position in the NFL that it is extremely difficult for any rookie QB to fully assimilate it and, then, perform well. Most rookie's who end up as starting QBs aren't able to learn the whole playbook their first year (Roethlisberger wasn't asked to learn the whole Pittsburgh playbook, only part of it last year) and that, combined with all of the other things that they must learn experientially, usually means that they don't perform well. While he hasn't had much opportunity to play, JP Losman has had more time to learn the playbook than a rookie and has had the opportunity to observe how the Bills' coaching staff and their starting QB go about the process of preparing for games, before having to do it himself, which should give him a significant advantage over the vast majority of rookies who end up starting at QB in terms of where he is on the learning curve at this point.

3.) Most rookies who end up starting at QB for their teams find themselves doing so for teams that are generally pretty bad across the board. One reason that B.Roethlisberger and D.Marino were able to perform above expectations was that the teams that they joined as rookies and ended up starting for during their first year in the league were very solid teams as a whole. While the Bills still have some weak spots, by and large, they are a pretty solid club across the board with the best STs in the NFL and 10 of 11 starters returning from the # 2 rated defense last season and some pretty good players at the skill positions on offense.

Still, there is no doubt about it, JP will struggle at times this season. And, it would be unfair and unrealistic not to expect him to do so. Many great QBs who have come into the NFL have described having a similar experience: a moment that happens during a game, usually after a year or so of playing (sometimes less, but not very often), when suddenly everything slows down and the game comes together for them and playing in the NFL suddenly becomes as easy and comfortable as playing in college or high school or in the backyard with friends. Until that moment happens for JP--and none of us can predict when or even if it will happen for him at this stage--he will struggle at times and be inconsistent in his performance perhaps even from game to game or quarter to quarter. It will be up to him (and the coaching staff) to limit the number of serious mistakes that he makes and up to the rest of the team to pick him up when he struggles in order for the team to win some of those games where he does inevitably struggle in order for the team to have a winning season and be successful.

While JP does have some things going for him that a rookie starting at QB in his first year in the NFL doesn't, I would be extremely surprised--shocked actually--to see him play as consistently well as a veteran QB with a couple of years under his belt, let alone as well as he may be capable of playing in a couple of years. I don't think that it would be realistic for Bills fans to expect that or fair for them to damn him and write him off as a flop if he doesn't. Nor do I think that he should be compared to a B.Roethlisberger or a D.Marino: a much fairer comparison, IMHO, would be with C.Palmer's performance last season. Palmer's situation going into last season was very similar to the situation that JP is facing going into this season with the Bills. If JP can perform anywhere near as the former Heisman Trophy winner and consensus # 1 pick in his draft class, I think JP will have accomplished a lot and Bills fans will be able to take comfort in the fact that the team will have a good QB in the future, regardless of how many games the team wins this season. I have little doubt that JP will struggle, as C.Palmer struggled at times last season, but it's not really a question of whether he will struggle--he will struggle--but evaluating how much and how often he struggles, as well as when he struggles, over the course of the season.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I know people will point to Roethlisberger's success. But I will point the number of years between Dan Marino's successful rookie season and next successful rookie season - Roethlisberger's. Come on man! You gonna make me list off all the successful rookie starters between Mrino and Roethlisberger? More accurately... you gonna make me list off all the successful 2nd year starters?

[pleasesavedrew]

A rookie in terms of experince, but he's now alrerady been in the system for a year and he knows the players better. That means less transition and less to learn, now he needs to lead and deliver, the leaning will be minimal in terms of the system.

[Meathead]

I'm not saying JP won't struggle at times, Meathead. Your observation that every QB in history has struggled is, indeed, a classic overstatement of the obvious.

All we "McFlys" are pointing out is that there is a huge difference between a raw rookie and a 2nd year guy who will be a first time starter.
Very true, and I agree.

I'm just commenting on the delusion that his training as the understudy for a year will allow him to avoid the inevitable and very likely disastrous "rookie" mistakes.

No matter how much we all want to belief otherwise, the fact is that he is a rookie starter and will perform like one. Even with an optimistic outlook that he'll be much better than the average "rookie starter", I expect his insertion as the starter will cost the Bills a net loss of at least two games compared to a similarly skilled veteran.

That's why I'm predicting 8-8 instead of 10-6 or better. And if they manage to make the playoffs, the NFL caliber defenses will break him down just like they did Rothlesberger. From a historical perspective it is virtually inevitable.

No matter how good the rest of the team is, and I think it is Superbowl caliber, I'd say there is literally about a 2% likelihood that the Bills could make the big game with Losman at QB this season. If he's the fantastic talent we hope he is then he could be ready in 2006, but the odds are very, very heavily stacked against him for 2005.

[K-Gun]

Come on man! You gonna make me list off all the successful rookie starters between Mrino and Roethlisberger? More accurately... you gonna make me list off all the successful 2nd year starters?

LOL, Tell him about the last 2nd year QB to take over for Bledsoe.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

While I'm not as optimistic as some regarding Losman, I'm not as pessimistic as you might think. All you need to look at is Kyle Boller of the Ravens. Yes the Ravens made the playoff in Boller's unimpressive rookie season.

A lot will be said about Mularkay this season. How to use Losman will be a key for 2005. The most important part will be the QB himself, but make life easier for him, such as not putting all that win/loss pressure on him, using plays best suited to his strength will no doubt help a great deal (it also shows whether we have a qualified coach). Both Cowher and Billick simplified plays for their rookie QBs, making them caretakers of the offense rather than play makers, though Roethlisberger showed that he is a play maker during the process.

I don't know what plans Mularkay has for Losman. For fans thinking that Losman would be asked to do what Bledsoe did for us last year and all the things that Bledsoe could not do, it would be a big mistake. My hope is that Mularkay views Losman as someone who can execute the simple plays without the veterans' sometimes over-worked thinking heads. In other words, I want to put Losman at the same starting line as Boller: execute what the coach asks you to do. I'm sure most of you heard about rumors that Bledsoe often did not do that last year. As a 11 year vet, he has that right, same as Favre and other veteran QBs. Unfortunately for Bledsoe, his instinct often proved to be wrong. In that regard, it might be better off just having a young, learning QB do what the coach wanted, instead of a vet who has been figured out by quite a few opponents.

In real games, I suspect more than half of a coach's call is figured about by the opponent before the ball is snapped. It is why Qbs who can think on their feet and with poise is so valuable. For Boller, the offense did not really went anywhere, but it was fine in the overall scheme of things - solid defense, special team - just don't lose the game on offense like giving points/balls away. For Roethlisberger, the defense knew what was coming but still could not stop it. For Losman, I'd be happy to take Boller's result, though I have some reservation about our defense.