Ross Verba

[Bert102176]

asked for his release after learning of the Shelton signing :attn: :blowup:

[Jan Reimers]

He was once a pretty good player, but he might not have much left.

[clumping platelets]

He also wants to be paid as a top 10 LT that he's not

[Tatonka]

he is a top 10 LT right now.. he had his best season last year..

tell me ten LTs that are better than him right now?

he would be a huge upgrade over gandy.

[Dicknoze69]

he is a top 10 LT right now.. he had his best season last year..

tell me ten LTs that are better than him right now?

he would be a huge upgrade over gandy.

I agree there, he played very well last season. His contract demands are ridiculous though. If Cleveland does release him, the Bills should definitely be contacting his agent to see what he wants.

There aren't that many teams who have a need for him right now and are willing to throw out a lot of money for him. Maybe Houston.

[Kerr]

He should be brought in to compete.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

There aren't that many teams who have a need for him right now and are willing to throw out a lot of money for him. Maybe Houston.
I would like to see the Bills try to get him if the Browns release him, but, from the articles I read about Shelton that were posted on the BZ front page recently, Houston seems to be very interested in upgrading at LT and probably would be willing to come up with a decent amount of money for R.Verba.

That might make Verba more expensive than the Bills can afford, but, nevertheless, he has shown a lot more than Shelton, especially lately, and I would like the Bills to at least explore the possibility of getting him. Of course, Cleveland might not be that willing to release him and might try to hold onto him to see if they can get anything, in terms of draft picks, for him.

[Scumbag College]

I would like to see the Bills try to get him if the Browns release him, but, from the articles I read about Shelton that were posted on the BZ front page recently, Houston seems to be very interested in upgrading at LT and probably would be willing to come up with a decent amount of money for R.Verba.

That might make Verba more expensive than the Bills can afford, but, nevertheless, he has shown a lot more than Shelton, especially lately, and I would like the Bills to at least explore the possibility of getting him. Of course, Cleveland might not be that willing to release him and might try to hold onto him to see if they can get anything, in terms of draft picks, for him.

Three way trade: TH to Titans, Titans 3rd round pick in 2006 to Cleveland, RV to Buffalo.

I could live with that if RV's contract won't put us in cap hell this year or down the road.

[Canadian'eh!]

I read somewhere he wants a 38 million+ deal! no thanks.

[camelcowboy]

I would just keep away from the guy. Put someone young with upside at tackle.

[Jan Reimers]

We seem to keep forgetting about that pesky salary cap.

[Tatonka]

i think that verba wants Jennings money.. and honestly, he is a better LT than Jennings is, so i dont blame him. He also was the lowest paid LT in the league last year but didnt make any noise because he was promised more money next year.. but what he wants and what he gets are two totally different things.. the entire league laughed at the 49ers for the amount of money they paid jennings..

verba may find that the market for LTs is not what he thinks and that the amount of money people have left for a LT is not what it was a few months ago when jennings got paid.

Shelton didnt generate much interest and only got a one year deal after sitting around.. the dominant probowl RT that got cut from seattle hasnt even gotten a sniff that i have read about (granded there are some drug/character issues there).. so teams are not throwing around tons of money at this point.

we could be surprised if he is released. he may sign w/ someone for alot less than 38 million.. more like 15-20 million.. and at that price, i would take him in buffalo in a new york minute.

[Jan Reimers]

I agree that he is still a decent player, but he is getting older. I don't think our cap will support even 15-20 million, however, particularly for a guy who might put us in a world of dead cap s*** in a few years.

[Tatonka]

I agree that he is still a decent player, but he is getting older. I don't think our cap will support even 15-20 million, however, particularly for a guy who might put us in a world of dead cap s*** in a few years.

hmm.. lets see..

option 1 - to have a little cap trouble in 3 years that can always be easily solved w/ restructures

option 2 - to see gandy get hurt again like he has every year since he has been in the league... then see an awful rotation of teague and peters, neither of which have ever shown they can play LT better than Gandy, which is not saying much at all, at LT for the remainder of the year while JP gets raped from the backside all year like he was in prison, that is until he gets hurt, knocked out for the season with another broken leg and has his confidence shaken beyond repair. so that way we are not in cap hell, but we have a worthless 1st round qb and still no good qb in buffalo since jim kelly.

i can see how option 1 is more appealing.

:up:




:hockey:

[Jan Reimers]

You may be right, T, but the Bills are acting - not only with Verba, but with a number of other guys that might have helped - like we either flat don't have the money, or don't want to jeopardize what room we have.

[Dicknoze69]

verba may find that the market for LTs is not what he thinks and that the amount of money people have left for a LT is not what it was a few months ago when jennings got paid.

Shelton didnt generate much interest and only got a one year deal after sitting around.. the dominant probowl RT that got cut from seattle hasnt even gotten a sniff that i have read about (granded there are some drug/character issues there).. so teams are not throwing around tons of money at this point.

we could be surprised if he is released. he may sign w/ someone for alot less than 38 million.. more like 15-20 million.. and at that price, i would take him in buffalo in a new york minute.

This is the key here. If he gets released, and that's a big if, there's no way he'll command Jennings money. The market for LT's isn't what it would be at the start of FA.

I think he'd cost a lot less than people believe.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

With so many highly rated LTs likely to come out in next year's draft, I would tend to agree that R.Verba may not find the market for his services to be as great as he would like to think it would be. Still, everything that I have read has led me to believe that Houston would be a team that would be interested in making a run at him and that might drive his price up a bit.

I think that one of the reasons that the Bills are being a little careful with the salary cap at this point is that they are looking to retain as much flexibility as possible to insure that they are able to keep N.Clements and T.McGee. If signing Verba, if he is released, would make it hard for them to do that, they may choose to pass on Verba and try to make it through this season with Gandy and Peters at LT, knowing that they will have a good shot at grabbing a talented LT in next year's draft if the two guys that they have don't work out.

[ryven]

With so many highly rated LTs likely to come out in next year's draft, I would tend to agree that R.Verba may not find the market for his services to be as great as he would like to think it would be. Still, everything that I have read has led me to believe that Houston would be a team that would be interested in making a run at him and that might drive his price up a bit.

I think that one of the reasons that the Bills are being a little careful with the salary cap at this point is that they are looking to retain as much flexibility as possible to insure that they are able to keep N.Clements and T.McGee. If signing Verba, if he is released, would make it hard for them to do that, they may choose to pass on Verba and try to make it through this season with Gandy and Peters at LT, knowing that they will have a good shot at grabbing a talented LT in next year's draft if the two guys that they have don't work out.


good point

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

If we pick up Verba; you know TD is putting all his chips on this year to make a strong run. If we pass on Verba or another solid LT; you know that the plan is future focused. We shall see. Personally, I would love to see us trade for him....maybe package Henry in a multiplayer deal....I'd take Jeff Faine, or William Green....or one of their young LBs....or ???

[mysticsoto]

hmm.. lets see..

option 1 - to have a little cap trouble in 3 years that can always be easily solved w/ restructures

option 2 - to see gandy get hurt again like he has every year since he has been in the league... then see an awful rotation of teague and peters, neither of which have ever shown they can play LT better than Gandy, which is not saying much at all, at LT for the remainder of the year while JP gets raped from the backside all year like he was in prison, that is until he gets hurt, knocked out for the season with another broken leg and has his confidence shaken beyond repair. so that way we are not in cap hell, but we have a worthless 1st round qb and still no good qb in buffalo since jim kelly.

i can see how option 1 is more appealing.

When listing options, it might be a good idea to also list consequences. Going with option 1 may also jeopardize our ability to keep NC next year. Factoring in the possible loss of a top 5 shutdown corner might influence some people's opinions as to what should be done in this case...

[lordofgun]

Verba is only an 8 year vet. I think he's got plenty left. He played incredibly well last year.

[Italian Stallion]

When listing options, it might be a good idea to also list consequences. Going with option 1 may also jeopardize our ability to keep NC next year. Factoring in the possible loss of a top 5 shutdown corner might influence some people's opinions as to what should be done in this case...

Very true, but at this point how much are we willing to sacrifice of the defense to make the offense a solid unit? In todays NFL it's better to be solid all around, then amazing in one or two areas.

[Tatonka]

When listing options, it might be a good idea to also list consequences. Going with option 1 may also jeopardize our ability to keep NC next year. Factoring in the possible loss of a top 5 shutdown corner might influence some people's opinions as to what should be done in this case...
win now.. we have been hearing about the future for years and years.. if we suck this season because the Oline is bad, especially at LT, heads should roll.

[Jan Reimers]

win now.. we have been hearing about the future for years and years.. if we suck this season because the Oline is bad, especially at LT, heads should roll.
That, at my age, is a philosophy that I wholeheartedly embrace.

[gimpy]

Verba is only an 8 year vet. I think he's got plenty left. He played incredibly well last year.
Verba didn't play "incredibly well" against Schobel last yr. :2cents:

[lordofgun]

Verba didn't play "incredibly well" against Schobel last yr. :2cents:
Who does??? :chuckle:

[mysticsoto]

That, at my age, is a philosophy that I wholeheartedly embrace.
Not me. When you don't think ahead, you end up paying the price. That's what Butler did to us and a big part of why we've had so many years w/o playoffs. You have to be able to think ahead and look to the future also. The Pats do that all the time in their negotiations with players AND in the depth that they keep. And look at where they are now...

I think we did that in letting Jennings and PW go. But I think Nate is one we want to keep if possible. I'd rather we get one of the many monster OTs next year in the draft - at a fairly cheap price, than get an average one now at a high price. The high price then causes us to lose NC and allow our D to take a step down. The cheap price allows us to keep NC and manage the overall cap alot better.

Gandy is going to be very similar to JJ (and remember, JJ had some bad games also - remember the 1st Jets game last year?). If he does get hurt ala JJ, Jason Peters is a monster and I expect him to be able to handle the job after more practice sessions and experience from watching Gandy and practicing at the same position over and over.

[Tatonka]

Not me. When you don't think ahead, you end up paying the price. That's what Butler did to us and a big part of why we've had so many years w/o playoffs. You have to be able to think ahead and look to the future also. The Pats do that all the time in their negotiations with players AND in the depth that they keep. And look at where they are now...


w,hen you constantly look ahead, you never do any better than an average team that makes the playoffs every once in a while.. which is basically what we are right now. oddly enough, you didnt mention that the bulter era also got us to 4 superbowls.. i would take a 4 superbowl run again if it ment we had to go 3-13 one year to get out of cap hell, which is all that it took to clean up butlers mess.. it was not like it took 3-4 years.. it was one year that we were in cap hell and had to suck because of it.

and while you make a good point with the pats.. you can just as easily point to the bengals.. the pats are the BEST example and also not the norm at all.. the more realistic look at that attitude can be found in alot of other teams that have been nothing more than average to good, but not even close to superbowl caliber, like cincy, kc, cleveland, arizona, seattle, ect...



I think we did that in letting Jennings and PW go. But I think Nate is one we want to keep if possible. I'd rather we get one of the many monster OTs next year in the draft - at a fairly cheap price, than get an average one now at a high price. The high price then causes us to lose NC and allow our D to take a step down. The cheap price allows us to keep NC and manage the overall cap alot better.

first of all, when does TD ever overpay? so your talking about a "high priced average tackle".. i dont know who you are referring to. verba is a very good tackle.. better than jj is and will come cheaper if released.. there are alot of other positions on the team that can be pointed at as having too much money tied up in them, but LT is not one of them.. especially when your RT is making more than 99% of every LT in the league.




Gandy is going to be very similar to JJ (and remember, JJ had some bad games also - remember the 1st Jets game last year?). If he does get hurt ala JJ, Jason Peters is a monster and I expect him to be able to handle the job after more practice sessions and experience from watching Gandy and practicing at the same position over and over.

i dont know what you have to support the fact that gandy is going to be very similar to JJ.. it is complete and total speculation. gandy is much more injury prone, which is no kind of compliment to jj by any means. he was a starter at LT for one year on an awful line and was cut by a team that had to depend on guys like rubin brown. if he was not good enough for one of the worst lines in the league, what makes you think he can be anything more than average at the most crucial position on either line for us?

and truely your kidding yourself thinking that a athletic TE that is dumb as a bad of rocks is going to pick up all the techniques needed to face nfl caliber DEs on a weekly basis. if we have to go to peters, we are dead. peters isnt even practicing as a starter.. we dont know where he is buried on the depth chart, but he is not getting a ton of reps, that is for sure.

while i like your optimism about the trash heap we have at LT, it is far from good and barely average at best. while we are watching JP get killed all season and throwing away another playoff caliber team because we couldnt invest in one position, i am sure that we will all feel better about the "great crop of LTs" in next years draft that may or may not be available to us.. in the mean time, we will lose more players, willis could decide to hold out for more money, jp could be hurt again, ect ect.. the list goes on..

you take advantage of the opportunities you have now.. i am not saying to overpay a guy like verba.. but he is a good tackle.. you pay him like one and suck it up. or else you can keep planning for the future, and in the end, be no better than the bengals have been over the last 20 years.

[Bruce is Loose]

a trade doesnt do anything bad to the future cap unless we restructure, since we wont have paid him any bonus

[gimpy]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=fanball-brownsverbagivenperm&prov=fanball&type=lgns


"Verba is seeking a contract equivalent to some of the top left tackles in the game, which will make him difficult to trade since in no way does he warrant such a deal."

[Tatonka]

i was saying that we should wait till he was released and offer him a contract that is reasonable.. something in the park of what we are paying Villareal.. he might not take it.. which is fine.. but i think the market is tighter than he thinks.

funny side note in that link.. shelton looked "okay".. :snicker:


Shelton, who fell out of favor with Denny Green in Arizona because of his conditioning (or lack thereof), looked "okay" during recent workouts, according to Savage, who added that the team has more than a month before training camp to work with him on getting into shape.

[THATHURMANATOR]

How much would he get on the open market at this point though? He can ask for anything he wants.

[THATHURMANATOR]

The guy signed to replace him barely got any offers.

[Voltron]

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts we would all have a Merry Christmas :D

[Tatonka]

the market will determine what verba makes, thurm.. not verba.. your right.. he can ask for whatever he wants.. but he wont get it.. and he is not going to hold out.. that is for sure.. he wants some money... so some money is better than no money.

[TigerJ]

Buffalo can contact his agent and tell him that if they don't get what Verba wants elsewhere Buffalo would be willing to talk a contract for a more reasonable amount.

[Charlieguide]

For the record, Tatonka, Bill Polian got the Bills to four SB's. Butler was on staff, I believe, but Polian was the GM at that time. JB created his cap hell after Polian went to Carolina, and we didn't see much in the way of results.

[Tatonka]

butler was a huge part of what polian did, as he was the personel/draft guy, and polian hasnt done **** with indy except get them into cap crunches with 2 players contracts (harrison and manning).. but you are correct.. polian was the gm..

and butler did get this team to the playoffs several years after polian left.. granted, he made some bad picks.. and his last draft for us was awful.. maybe the worst in bills history.. the eric flowers draft.. but i thought he was a good gm.

and i dont get all the crap about the cap hell.. it cost us one year.. that is it.. to me.. putting together a good team is worth one year in the gutter.. look at baltimore.. you think they regret having to dismantle their team after winning the superbowl? the high from finally winning one would carry me right through the losing season with no problem.

[The_Philster]

the market will determine what verba makes, thurm.. not verba.. your right.. he can ask for whatever he wants.. but he wont get it.. and he is not going to hold out.. that is for sure.. he wants some money... so some money is better than no money.

and you have to consider that in June and beyond, teams aren't going to have the cap space to meet any wild demands

[mysticsoto]

w,hen you constantly look ahead, you never do any better than an average team that makes the playoffs every once in a while.. which is basically what we are right now. oddly enough, you didnt mention that the bulter era also got us to 4 superbowls.. i would take a 4 superbowl run again if it ment we had to go 3-13 one year to get out of cap hell, which is all that it took to clean up butlers mess.. it was not like it took 3-4 years.. it was one year that we were in cap hell and had to suck because of it. Woe...nobody said anything about "constantly" looking ahead. I give credit to Kelly for getting us to the SB for 4 yrs. I feel his expertise in making calls at the line is what got us there. In fact, I always felt that he would make a great coach or atleast offensive coordinator in the future. But I can understand that he wants to dedicate time to his son and his family.

As to cap hell, well there is cap hell, and then there is waiting in line to cap hell. Right now, we don't have alot of money to sign high calibre players. Next year, we will recover from not having to pay DB's cap hit and that should help us a little more - but in all likelihood, we will be using that to keep NC. And as I said, I'd rather keep Nate than sign Verba.

Understand this, if they can find a way to do both, I'm all for it. But player for player, I think Nate ranks higher in my list for the impact he has on this team that Verba ever could. My opinion of course...


and while you make a good point with the pats.. you can just as easily point to the bengals.. the pats are the BEST example and also not the norm at all.. the more realistic look at that attitude can be found in alot of other teams that have been nothing more than average to good, but not even close to superbowl caliber, like cincy, kc, cleveland, arizona, seattle, ect...

first of all, when does TD ever overpay? so your talking about a "high priced average tackle".. i dont know who you are referring to. verba is a very good tackle.. better than jj is and will come cheaper if released.. there are alot of other positions on the team that can be pointed at as having too much money tied up in them, but LT is not one of them.. especially when your RT is making more than 99% of every LT in the league. I never said TD overpays. I said we need to be watchful of overpaying. And I am happy that TD pays close attention to that side of the business. Hey, if money was no object, I'd love to have Orlando Pace on our team. Not realistic nor smart with our cap system. I agree to some extent that TD should pay more attention to the line (like the Rams - I think they did great in the draft and that they will have a killer O-line like the Raiders). But the truth is, it sounds like that was the plan and every one they had on the radar was gone by the time our 2nd rd pick came around. I was shocked that Spencer went so quickly. Virtually all the good Linemen were gone. And the ones that remained were obviously not ranked very highly by McNally. Our RT getting paid that much as been discussed ad-naseum. That is what a 4th rd pick gets paid regardless of what position they play. I'd hope that some day he might switch to LT - maybe even this year since he says he's in such good shape now. I know the Bills' brass has said they want to keep him at RT for consistency, but sometimes you just have to rethink and do what seems right for the team.


i dont know what you have to support the fact that gandy is going to be very similar to JJ.. it is complete and total speculation. gandy is much more injury prone, which is no kind of compliment to jj by any means. he was a starter at LT for one year on an awful line and was cut by a team that had to depend on guys like rubin brown. if he was not good enough for one of the worst lines in the league, what makes you think he can be anything more than average at the most crucial position on either line for us?

and truely your kidding yourself thinking that a athletic TE that is dumb as a bad of rocks is going to pick up all the techniques needed to face nfl caliber DEs on a weekly basis. if we have to go to peters, we are dead. peters isnt even practicing as a starter.. we dont know where he is buried on the depth chart, but he is not getting a ton of reps, that is for sure. I have the same thing that you have in saying that Gandy is crap, Peters is crap and TT will be no good at LT...I have my opinion. Gandy wasn't cut by bad playing. He was cut b'cse they believed he was too injury prone and now had a replacement for him. That doesn't mean he can't play the position though. Do we have to worry about him getting injured - sure we do. Sometimes people recover and play well afterward (WM, Thurman Thomas, etc) and sometimes they don't. Personally, I feel it is good to have him to give Jason Peters time to develop. You many not think very highly of him b'cse of his Wonderlic score, but last year he came on toward the end of the season and played great special teams. Clearly that means he can learn and do needed things for our team. Sometimes you can just rely on instinct in being physical with blocks and so forth. It's not like he has to solve an algebra equation or something. He just has to get his big body in front of someone and use his strength and speed to stop him - not much thinking needed and I'm willing to give him that chance and not write him off so quickly without even seeing him try first!


while i like your optimism about the trash heap we have at LT, it is far from good and barely average at best. while we are watching JP get killed all season and throwing away another playoff caliber team because we couldnt invest in one position, i am sure that we will all feel better about the "great crop of LTs" in next years draft that may or may not be available to us.. in the mean time, we will lose more players, willis could decide to hold out for more money, jp could be hurt again, ect ect.. the list goes on..

you take advantage of the opportunities you have now.. i am not saying to overpay a guy like verba.. but he is a good tackle.. you pay him like one and suck it up. or else you can keep planning for the future, and in the end, be no better than the bengals have been over the last 20 years. All I'm saying is that if we can get Verba cheap, I'm all for it - and at CV's price is reasonable to me. But anything more and we should just forget it. I think it was LBF that mentioned that Houston might be interested in him. And that could lead to a bidding war which I prefer not to be a part of. If we could some how swing a negotiation that involved TH directly or indirectly (with another team), I would be all for that also. But I don't want to pay alot of money when we may have a good opportunity to get a franchise LT next year with the huge crop of monster LTs that will be available in next year's draft!

[gimpy]

and you have to consider that in June and beyond, teams aren't going to have the cap space to meet any wild demands
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=fanball-brownsverbatoberelea&prov=fanball&type=lgns

[Tatonka]

perfect.. bring him in.

[Tatonka]

Browns: Verba to be released

by Fanball Staff - Fanball.com
Wednesday, June 8, 2005

News
The Browns will release disgruntled offensive tackle Ross Verba Wednesday after he agreed to repay the $465,000 roster bonus the club recently gave him, a source close to Verba told the Cleveland Plain Dealer. Verba had been holding out for a better contract than the one calling for him to receive $5.8 million over the next two seasons.

Views
The Browns signed free agent tackles L.J. Shelton and Marcus Spears to take Verba's spot, and Verba and his agent are possibly the only two people on the planet who think that swap is any sort of downgrade for the Browns. It is extremely unlikely that Verba, who has been called in published reports one of the, uh, biggest jerks (that's not the exact terminology they used, but we cleaned it up for family consumption) in the league, will land a deal better than the $6.2 million-plus he's walking away from in Cleveland.