Doug Flutie, Wall of Famer?

[Jan Reimers]

Unlike many of you, I neither love nor hate Doug Flutie. I am not obsessed with him or consumed with hatred for him. In fact, I would never think about Flutie - since he's been gone for some time - except for the more than occasional negative posts about him on this board.

He may have been a clubhouse cancer, despised by his teammates, but I was never in the Bills locker room with him, and I doubt that any of you were, either. I only know that the team played very well for him, because I was there to see it first hand.

Flutie may have been rude and arrogant, but I never saw that side of him. On the one occasion that I was near him, he very graciously autographed my wife's game jersey, just before he boarded the team bus in Baltimore. I can't tell how many times the churlish and surly Bruce Smith refused autograph requests from my wife and daughter.

Doug Flutie was about our only ray of hope at QB from Jim Kelly's retirement to JP's impending coronation. I believe he was 21-9 (I've also seen21-10) as the starter, and was responsible for our only playoff appearance in all those years. Maybe the defense was responsible for all those wins as many say, but I was there to witness many a gritty, gutsy performance by Flutie. I believe he played a large part in at least some of our victories.

He also brought excitement to what was becoming a relatively moribund franchise. We can thank Doug - at least partially - for the fact that we are not currently rooting for the Houston or Los Angeles Bills. His play spurred the lagging premium seat sales enough to help the Bills stay in Buffalo.

Wall of Famer? He probably wasn't here long enough. But can we at least give the guy some credit for what he did here?

[EDS]

Not even close to a wall of famer. It just wasn't around long enough or achieved any significant success.

[generalmills]

Gabe Northern had one really good year....is he a wall of famer?? :boring:

[ticatfan]

CFL- yes.
NFL- no.

[jamze132]

Well Jan, I agree 100% with your post. I do not believe Doug should have a spot on the wall but he shouldn't be trashed either. He did his job here, which was to win games. Like you said, there weren't a lot of QB's since Kelly who have done that. Great Post!

[THATHURMANATOR]

I hate him.

He did do some good things.

No way should he even considered for the wall of fame. He had 2 good years.

[The_Philster]

For one good year? not a chance and like has been said before, no one denies what he did here as far as 98...but there's too much blind devotion to him to be unbiased.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I don't love or hate Flutie either, but I wouldn't even consider him for the Wall Of Fame. He wasn't on the team long enough.

[Jan Reimers]

I hate him.

He did do some good things.

No way should he even considered for the wall of fame. He had 2 good years.
Why do you hate him, Thurm? I hated it when we first signed him, and said something to my wife like, "If this is the best we can do in the offseason, I'm giving up my season tickets."

But after watching him play, and win, with so much heart and emotion, I grudgingly gained respect for him, which I still have.

[OpIv37]

Flutie made the games interesting to watch- I was at the JAX game where he won it on that bootleg play right at the end. But the offense was all over the place because of Flutie's height and I remember constantly thinking that we needed a "real" QB to run an NFL offense. Bottom line: Flutie was exciting, sold tickets, and got us a winning season. But that's not enough to warrant a Wall of Fame appears. I don't have any animosity towards him and I would have liked to have kept him over RJ, but I don't romanticize his time here or his success. Being better than Todd Collins and RJ isn't much of an accomplishment.

[Jeff1220]

I am very glad we saw the Flutie/RJ era come to an end. I too rarely think about either now. Neither was a starting NFL caliber QB, as shown by their entire careers. IMO, Flutie and Wall Of Fame should only be mentioned in the same breath when talking about the CFL - not the Bills.

[djjimkelly]

flutie isnt even close to wall of fame. not even close he avged 17 point a game for o the one year with the top D is league he lucked out being with us at the time he was.

[Jan Reimers]

The funny thing about Flutie is that he is the only successful Bill I can think of who is so roundly despised by so many fans. I can understand hating Todd Collins, RJ, Billy Jo Hobert, and even Drew Bledsoe, a class act who just didn't get it done on the field.

But if we're going to hate a guy for arrogance, surliness, selfishness and churlishness, we should put Bruce Smith at the very top of the list.

[TedMock]

flutie isnt even close to wall of fame. not even close he avged 17 point a game for o the one year with the top D is league he lucked out being with us at the time he was.

not even 17. the defense was responsible for some of that. offense was less than 14.5. I don't hate the guy, I could honestly care less about him. I'm glad that whole "era" is over, that's for sure. I just can't believe the accolades that some people give him.

[The_Philster]

The funny thing about Flutie is that he is the only successful Bill I can think of who is so roundly despised by so many fans. I can understand hating Todd Collins, RJ, Billy Jo Hobert, and even Drew Bledsoe, a class act who just didn't get it done on the field.

But if we're going to hate a guy for arrogance, surliness, selfishness and churlishness, we should put Bruce Smith at the very top of the list.

How many of the guys you mentioned have a group of fans who heap accolades on him for a lot more than he deserved?
Collins..had one miserable season after 2 undistinguished years as a backup. Part of that miserable season I'll blame on Henning's putrid offense..a base 2-TE set when our TEs were Lonnie Johnson, Tony Cline, Rob Coons, and a young Jay Riemersma...talk about brain dead.
Hobert...hated but who actually would praise a guy who was a snap away from playing yet didn't study his playbook or the game plan? :shakeno: They saved his life cutting him on Tuesday cause Spielman would've killed him on Wednesday.
RJ...lots of potential but wasn't smart enough to learn how to make quick decisions...I see hatred toward him sometimes.. I pity him more than anything.
Bledsoe...I've seen plenty of hatred towards him even with no one blindly defending him..I'm sure that will die down in time and he'll be looked back on as a QB who just couldn't play consistently while here.
Face it, Jan,..it's the blind fanaticism towards Flutie that inspires the hatred. He had one good year and one awful to mediocre one then shot off his mouth. At least when Bruce shot off his mouth, he backed it up with outstanding play. I remember my first season with season tix back in 96...Bruce held out of training camp...didn't play a single snap in the preseason if I'm not mistaken. It showed in the first half of the Opener against the Giants. But after halftime, he was in midseason form and was a solid contributor to the win.

[BuffaloRanger]

To make the WOF a QB should have won at least one playoff game.

Flutie did lead us to 2 winning seasons - not just one. We lost that game in Miami, sorry, the refs and that BS call on Reed lost it. Then he led us to the playoffs the next season, but dumb-ass Wade Phillips plays RJ in a meaningless game, then announces the next day that RJ will start against the Titans. So much for keeping the Thumbtacks guessing. I was more pissed that Wade announced the QB change a week before the game than actually deciding to play RJ. What a tactical moron.

We forget what a unprecedented decision that was. Brady took the job from Bledsoe by winning several games. RJ gets the start in the playoffs after Flutie played 15 games. 1 game!? That was just crazy.

And I don't want to hear that RJ almost pulled it off. Our Def was so good all he had to do was not screw up - like take a safety which resulted in a short following kickoff leading to a Titan TD - that's a 9 point swing for those of you scoring at home.

Playing a QB that sat all season in a playoff game was pretty ******ed, you have to admit. Regardless of his potential, he didn't get enough snaps with the 1st string Offense during the season to be consistent, especially on the road with hostile fans.

[BuffaloRanger]

Don't give the Def all the credit during the Flutie years. We've had the #2 and #3 Def the last 2 season and didn't make the playoffs. How awful was Flutie's second season if we made the playoffs in 15 games?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Why do you hate him, Thurm? I hated it when we first signed him, and said something to my wife like, "If this is the best we can do in the offseason, I'm giving up my season tickets."

But after watching him play, and win, with so much heart and emotion, I grudgingly gained respect for him, which I still have.

I liked him at first

Then he was a little *****

then I hated him.

[Jan Reimers]

Face it, Jan,..it's the blind fanaticism towards Flutie that inspires the hatred.
Maybe that's it, Phil. I haven't been able to figure it out. I guess what you're saying is that Flutie was just a moderately successful QB for a very short period of time - which I agree with - yet his most ardent supporters heap love and praise on him as if he were the second coming of Jim Kelly. So basically, he is hated irrationally by some because he is so irrationally beloved by others.

Could be. . .

[Jan Reimers]

I liked him at first

Then he was a little *****

then I hated him.
I hear you, but wasn't Bruce Smith a big *****, and Andre Reed a medium *****, during their careers? But they WERE successful for a much longer period than Flutie.

[The_Philster]

Maybe that's it, Phil. I haven't been able to figure it out. I guess what you're saying is that Flutie was just a moderately successful QB for a very short period of time - which I agree with - yet his most ardent supporters heap love and praise on him as if he were the second coming of Jim Kelly. So basically, he is hated irrationally by some because he is so irrationally beloved by others.Could be. . .Honestly, that's the thing that makes me sick about him..even more than his shooting off his mouth. He was exciting as hell to watch..that's something that no one can deny...and the benching was stupid. I've said it before but Flutie's slump in 99 seemed to be ending before he was benched...had he still been playing as poorly as he was in stretches like in Baltimore or against the Giants, I'd feel differently. But I really think he was catching a 2nd wind or something..played pretty well against Arizona for example as I recall.

[BuffaloRanger]

Jimbo was a huge *****. Once he got married and started having kids he settled down - but he was a dick off the field during the SB years.

[BuffaloRanger]

I liked Flutie while he was here. I went to the RJ/Flutie game in SD back in 2001. After that I hated Flutie. But I respected what he did while here.

He became a dickhead after that bumbling idiot Wade replaced him for the playoff game. Any starting QB would have reacted the same thing.

Find me an example where a Starter loses his job because the backup plays well in a meaningless home game. It happens because of injury.

[ExWNYer]

How many of the guys you mentioned have a group of fans who heap accolades on him for a lot more than he deserved?
Collins..had one miserable season after 2 undistinguished years as a backup. Part of that miserable season I'll blame on Henning's putrid offense..a base 2-TE set when our TEs were Lonnie Johnson, Tony Cline, Rob Coons, and a young Jay Riemersma...talk about brain dead.
Hobert...hated but who actually would praise a guy who was a snap away from playing yet didn't study his playbook or the game plan? :shakeno: They saved his life cutting him on Tuesday cause Spielman would've killed him on Wednesday.
RJ...lots of potential but wasn't smart enough to learn how to make quick decisions...I see hatred toward him sometimes.. I pity him more than anything.
Bledsoe...I've seen plenty of hatred towards him even with no one blindly defending him..I'm sure that will die down in time and he'll be looked back on as a QB who just couldn't play consistently while here.
Face it, Jan,..it's the blind fanaticism towards Flutie that inspires the hatred. He had one good year and one awful to mediocre one then shot off his mouth. At least when Bruce shot off his mouth, he backed it up with outstanding play. I remember my first season with season tix back in 96...Bruce held out of training camp...didn't play a single snap in the preseason if I'm not mistaken. It showed in the first half of the Opener against the Giants. But after halftime, he was in midseason form and was a solid contributor to the win.

Great post. I neither "loved" nor "hated" Flutie but I certainly cheered for his success as I do all who are playing for the Bills.
That being said, the answer to whether or not he belongs on the 'Wall of Fame' is an absolute, emphatic no!

[Jan Reimers]

I liked Flutie while he was here. I went to the RJ/Flutie game in SD back in 2001. After that I hated Flutie. But I respected what he did while here.

He became a dickhead after that bumbling idiot Wade replaced him for the playoff game. Any starting QB would have reacted the same thing.

Find me an example where a Starter loses his job because the backup plays well in a meaningless home game. It happens because of injury.
I think it was the senile old Ralph who made the bumbling idiot Wade replace him with RJ, but I totally agree with you. It was one of the worst moves in Bills' history.

[The_Philster]

I honestly think it was more a case of Ralph allowing Wade to make the switch. Ralph was the one who pushed for that 4 yr, $22M contract that Flutie got in 99...I have to wonder if Wade had thought about making the switch earlier but was afraid Ralph would get upset. After seeing how RJ performed against Indy, Wade made a good enough case for him in Ralph's eyes

[generalmills]

I think it was the senile old Ralph who made the bumbling idiot Wade replace him with RJ, but I totally agree with you. It was one of the worst moves in Bills' history.

How can you say that it was one of the worst moves in Bills history? IT WORKED!!! They had won the game with Rob at the helm. You seem to block this fact out of your mind. Rob Johnson was not responsible for the run-back. The last time he was on the field in that game he put the team in field goal range to win..(that is where his job ended and the Special teams tooks over) Be fair and judge Wade's decision up to that point.

I guess the next angle will be "Wade should have been fired after the Colts game and Flutie should have been the coach" or "Flutie could have played centre in the game and that would have slowed down the Titan pass-rush" or will it be "Flutie is so athletic that he should have kicked the ball off and he would have split the uprights for a touchback." c'mon people.. THE MAN IS NOT A GOD! He never was..and he never will be.

[Iehoshua]

How can you say that it was one of the worst moves in Bills history? IT WORKED!!! They had won the game with Rob at the helm. You seem to block this fact out of your mind. Rob Johnson was not responsible for the run-back. The last time he was on the field in that game he put the team in field goal range to win..(that is where his job ended and the Special teams tooks over) Be fair and judge Wade's decision up to that point.

Did you watch the game? Rob Johnson contributed less than nothing toward that victory. If a QB with half a brain had been in, it wouldn't have been close enough for a run-back to mean squat, IMO.

I think my disdain toward Johnson amplified my liking for Flutie. Despite this, I don't think Doug is a Wall of Famer..

[generalmills]

Did you watch the game? Rob Johnson contributed less than nothing toward that victory. If a QB with half a brain had been in, it wouldn't have been close enough for a run-back to mean squat, IMO.

I think my disdain toward Johnson amplified my liking for Flutie. Despite this, I don't think Doug is a Wall of Famer..


yes I did watch the game...and not through the blinders of those who love flutie like their first born son. The bills were winning the game when Johnson left the field. All you can ask out of your QB is to put you in a position to win the game. He did that.

[Jan Reimers]

Did you watch the game? Rob Johnson contributed less than nothing toward that victory. If a QB with half a brain had been in, it wouldn't have been close enough for a run-back to mean squat, IMO.

I think my disdain toward Johnson amplified my liking for Flutie. Despite this, I don't think Doug is a Wall of Famer..
Thanks, Darth, you saved me the time of pointing out RJ's (non)contributions.

I don't think Flutie should be on the Wall either, I only started this thread because I was tired of his being continually vilified.

[BuffaloRanger]

SAFETY! Short kick = Titan TD. 9 points. ALL RJ's fault.

Wade was stupid for announcing RJ as the starter on monday. At least keep the Titans guessing unti game time. Idiot.

[Mr. Cynical]

Don't give the Def all the credit during the Flutie years. We've had the #2 and #3 Def the last 2 season and didn't make the playoffs. How awful was Flutie's second season if we made the playoffs in 15 games?Bingo. Not to mention we've had TH rushing over 1,350+ yards and WM over 1,000 as well the last 3 years. Flutie had what, Smith and Linton as his "rushing attack"?

Flutie made the Bills a better team. He wasn't perfect and he wouldn't be my first choice to build a team around (even when he was younger) but the positive impact he had on the Bills can't be ignored.

[BuffaloRanger]

How can you say that it was one of the worst moves in Bills history? IT WORKED!!! They had won the game with Rob at the helm. You seem to block this fact out of your mind. Rob Johnson was not responsible for the run-back. The last time he was on the field in that game he put the team in field goal range to win..(that is where his job ended and the Special teams tooks over) Be fair and judge Wade's decision up to that point.

I guess the next angle will be "Wade should have been fired after the Colts game and Flutie should have been the coach" or "Flutie could have played centre in the game and that would have slowed down the Titan pass-rush" or will it be "Flutie is so athletic that he should have kicked the ball off and he would have split the uprights for a touchback." c'mon people.. THE MAN IS NOT A GOD! He never was..and he never will be.

Flutie would have avoided the sack for the safety. There had never been a team that sat there 15 game starter for their backup based on one meaningless game. It has to go down as one of the worst in season player moves. Of course there is nothing to prove Flutie would have won - though he did win 9 more games than RJ that year. Which I think might be more than RJ EVER won in a Bills uniform.

[BuffaloRanger]

Bingo. Not to mention we've had TH rushing over 1,300 yards and WM over 1,000 as well. Flutie had A. Smith and Linton as his "rushing attack".

Yep. Just makes Bledsoe and the O play calling look that much worse.

[Mr. Cynical]

P.S. However, I don't think he is a candidate for the WoF. He just wasn't here long enough.

[Jerry Ewert]

NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE WASN'T HERE LONG PLUS I DON'T THINK THAT HE DID ANYTHING FOR THE TEAM WHILE HE WAS HERE. THE PLAYERS ON THE WALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE ON THERE, HE DOES NOT.

[Iehoshua]

NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE WASN'T HERE LONG PLUS I DON'T THINK THAT HE DID ANYTHING FOR THE TEAM WHILE HE WAS HERE. THE PLAYERS ON THE WALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE ON THERE, HE DOES NOT.
Thank you, Captain CapsLock!

[ticatfan]

This is so funny listening to you guys dump on flutie, if I remember the bills were in trouble and flutie put the bums back into the seats . Good chance you would not even have a team if flutie did not show up and save it, you all should be kissing his ass. lol

[mayotm]

Why are we still debating about this guy? I know it's a slow time of year, but damn. Is he a Wall of Famer? Absolutely not. He had one very good season. In 1999, he was average at best. His time in Buffalo was very similar to Bledsoe's. A very good start, followed by average to below average play. Go back and look at his numbers in 1999. They weren't good. In a few years, is somebody going to start a post about whether Bledsoe should be on the Wall of Fame. I think not!

[Ebenezer]

I hate him.

He did do some good things.

No way should he even considered for the wall of fame. He had 2 good years.
couldn't have said it better.

[Iehoshua]

As long as you peeps who hated Doug hated RJ more then it's all good.
:up:

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

Hey, I will say this about Flutie, even though I was not a huge fan......the guy was a winner when he was still phsyically in top form.
He overcame his physical limitations and was quite a football player. I was out of the area during his late time with the team, so I didn't see the bad side of him...but he just always impressed me as a guy who knew how to lead, how to run a game, and how to find a way to win.

Wall of Fame? Heck no. But he did contribute quite significantly to the Bills as an organization, so he deserves respect if nothing else.

[The_Philster]

Flutie would have avoided the sack for the safety. probably...but he might've thrown a few picks as was his habit when he was actually throwing the ball in midseason...who knows? maybe we would've never led that day
This is so funny listening to you guys dump on flutie, if I remember the bills were in trouble and flutie put the bums back into the seats . Good chance you would not even have a team if flutie did not show up and save it, you all should be kissing his ass. lolOne good year doesn't merit that kind of hero worship by Bills fans for the most part :peace: Yeah, he helped us get luxury boxes and club seats sold...but he's not gonna be anointed as a God for the rest of time for that...except by the blind fanatics.
But he did contribute quite significantly to the Bills as an organization, so he deserves respect if nothing else.agreed :up:

[pleasesavedrew]

If it was my choice he be on the wall. Only because he was a big part we even have a team to honor on the wall.

[Novacane]

omg.................no, he does not even come close to even being considered for the wall. And I don't hate him

[HAMMER]

To make the WOF a QB should have won at least one playoff game.

Flutie did lead us to 2 winning seasons - not just one. We lost that game in Miami, sorry, the refs and that BS call on Reed lost it. Then he led us to the playoffs the next season, but dumb-ass Wade Phillips plays RJ in a meaningless game, then announces the next day that RJ will start against the Titans. So much for keeping the Thumbtacks guessing. I was more pissed that Wade announced the QB change a week before the game than actually deciding to play RJ. What a tactical moron.

We forget what a unprecedented decision that was. Brady took the job from Bledsoe by winning several games. RJ gets the start in the playoffs after Flutie played 15 games. 1 game!? That was just crazy.

And I don't want to hear that RJ almost pulled it off. Our Def was so good all he had to do was not screw up - like take a safety which resulted in a short following kickoff leading to a Titan TD - that's a 9 point swing for those of you scoring at home.

Playing a QB that sat all season in a playoff game was pretty ******ed, you have to admit. Regardless of his potential, he didn't get enough snaps with the 1st string Offense during the season to be consistent, especially on the road with hostile fans.

I won't argue the fact that starting RJ in the Titans game was unusual. But his overall performance and heart was good enough for the win. The fact that our ST's couldn't stay in their lanes lost that game.

Fact is Flutie was pretty similar to Bledsoe in that he had a great first half in 98', his first year. It was all downhill from there. Once Belicheck figured out how to shut him down and the rest of the league copied it, Flutie was neutered. He was one of the best back ups to play in this league, but when a team had a week to prepare for him he was very average.

[Novacane]

Flutie and his wife came in and hit balls at our batting cages once. She had a great ass and could hit the ball as good as he could.

[PromoTheRobot]

Pros: Flutie probably saved the Bills franchise from a suite and premium seat marketing standpoint.

Cons: Was only good for a short time, much like another QB who came from New England....Was a locker room cancer...lost the only Bills playoff game he played in by fumbling the ball on the Dolphins 1yd line on the last play of the game.

You know, I am amazed how Flutie never caught any crap for the 1999 Bills/Dolphins playoff loss. Heck, we blame RJ for the homerun throwback game, and he did his job, with only one sneaker no less.

PTR

[Novacane]

If it was my choice he be on the wall. Only because he was a big part we even have a team to honor on the wall.



about your sig. I don't like remembering nightmares!

[Historian]

No. Good ballplayer but he wasn't here long enough.

There are a lot of guys way ahead of him in line that deserve that honor.

Which brings me to a question. The walls are getting kind of filled, and we're just beginning to approach the time when all of our Super Bowl team is going to be elected.

Where are all the names going to go?

Let's face it...Bruce, Andre, and Tasker are shoe-ins. Possibly Bennett, Christie, Hull could be elected. And that's just the guys from that era. A case could be made for Saban, Gilchrist, Bemiller, Tracey, and a boatload of guys from the AFL Champion teams.

[Jan Reimers]

I think Hull is already there.

[The_Philster]

I think Hull is already there.has been since 2002

we've still got space to more than cover the Super Bowl teams as far as the guys who deserve it on the old administration building where they put Ritcher last year.
Beyond that...good question :scratch:

[silo056]

flutie was a great player for the bills on and off the field but he simply wasnt here long enough to warrent a spot on the wall if we had a mini wall him and brice but how is bruce not on the wall is my question.:gobills: :fat:

[The_Philster]

Bruce will be...they can't put everyone up at once

[BAM]

Doug Flutie should at least get a plaque somewhere in the stadium for playing a MAJOR part in keeping the Bills in Buffalo. As for a spot on the W.O.F. ... hell no. Not even close.