Email the Bills - letter to TD

[Earthquake Enyart]

Dear Mr. Donahoe,

I am a long time Bills fan. I went to the "Rockpile" to watch Bills games as a kid. I love the throwbacks with the standing buffalo. They bring back a lot of memories, and I plan to "load up" in the pro shop.

Along those lines, I made a point to watch the NFL Network "In Their Words" show about Lou Saban. Lou is one of the most fiery competators to have ever played or coached in the league. I was proud of the way he turned around the Bills and OJ's career.

I know he left under poor circumstances both times. But time marches on. Lou still has a warm spot in the hearts of older Bills fans, and many of us feel he should be honored. I think that it's time for Mr. Wilson and Mr. Saban to bury the hatchet. It's time for Lou to be up on the wall of fame.

[don137]

:bf1:

[Meathead]

Lou Piccone, too.

[Voltron]

Yeah I watched that too. What were him and Ralph's issues?

[Jan Reimers]

I agree EE. Other than Marv, Saban was the best Bills coach ever. It would be great to see the two old geezers get together again.

[Michael82]

Great thread. Saban definitely deserves to be on the wall. :bf1:

[Mr. Cynical]

Does anyone know how many people can fit on the wall? In my mind, you still have (at least) Thurmal, Bruce, Reed, Tasker, Beebe, Bennett, Polian (if not for him, those guys wouldn't have been here). That is 7 more people. How many spots are left? What are they going to do when there is no more wall? My guess is they will start double stacking the names...

[Michael82]

Does anyone know how many people can fit on the wall? In my mind, you still have (at least) Thurmal, Bruce, Reed, Tasker, Beebe, Bennett, Polian (if not for him, those guys wouldn't have been here). That is 7 more people. How many spots are left? What are they going to do when there is no more wall? My guess is they will start double stacking the names...
They are already on the other side of the stadium now (tunnel endzone)

[casdhf]

Beebe

No way does he get a spot on the wall.

[Mr. Cynical]

No way does he get a spot on the wall.Why not? He was here from 89-94 and was a go to guy many times for Kelly. He also was the one saving grace in the 52-17 blowout vs Dallas by hustling down the field and knocking the ball from Lett's hands, showing true determination and guts. And he publicly dedicated his first SB win with GB to the people of Buffalo, saying he hoped that in some way they could share in the feeling just a little bit.

Just because he wasn't a probowler or stats leader doesn't mean he shouldn't be considered IMO. Granted I'd put him at the bottom of the list of people I mentioned, but I still think he can be considered.

[Mr. Cynical]

They are already on the other side of the stadium now (tunnel endzone)
Thanks. :up:

But the inside ring stilll had spots left, right? How many would you say?

[Jan Reimers]

They are already on the other side of the stadium now (tunnel endzone)
I think they can find additional space, too.

[lordofgun]

No way does he get a spot on the wall.
Agreed.

[Mr. Cynical]

No way does he get a spot on the wall.

Agreed.
I'm curious why you are so sure he won't. I'm not saying he is a lock, but I do think he will be considered (and IMO should be up there).

[SABURZFAN]

Dear Mr. Donahoe,

I am a long time Bills fan. I went to the "Rockpile" to watch Bills games as a kid. I love the throwbacks with the standing buffalo. They bring back a lot of memories, and I plan to "load up" in the pro shop.

Along those lines, I made a point to watch the NFL Network "In Their Words" show about Lou Saban. Lou is one of the most fiery competators to have ever played or coached in the league. I was proud of the way he turned around the Bills and OJ's career.

I know he left under poor circumstances both times. But time marches on. Lou still has a warm spot in the hearts of older Bills fans, and many of us feel he should be honored. I think that it's time for Mr. Wilson and Mr. Saban to bury the hatchet. It's time for Lou to be up on the wall of fame.


i was watching that at work yesterday.the only problem is there was no sound. :mad:

[don137]

Lou Piccone, too.

I met Lou when I worked in a bar called Thirtsy's in Pittsford. I talked to him for well over an hour. He's a very nice guy. Very approachable. He loves to talk about his playing days.

[HHURRICANE]

When Saban was coach how many playoff games did we win?

[TigerJ]

Lou Piccone, too.

When I saw "Lou" that's who I thought of. I was also thinking, yeah right, EE.

[casdhf]

I'm curious why you are so sure he won't. I'm not saying he is a lock, but I do think he will be considered (and IMO should be up there).


Don't get me wrong, after the Leon Lett play I went out and bought his Jersey, but if you look at his career numbers, he's not even close. If he goes on the wal any WR that played here 6 years will think they deserve it too. I think Tasker would have a shot though.

[djjimkelly]

tasker has more then a shot hes a hall of fame finalist in the last 25 or so the last few years if hes regarded that highly for all of nfl hes a sure fire lock for bills wall of fame

[Earthquake Enyart]

When Saban was coach how many playoff games did we win?
Lou's teams won 2 AFL titles.

His second go round with the OJ teams only made the playoffs once, where they were thrashed by the steel curtain. :ill:

[Historian]

Lou's teams won 2 AFL titles.

His second go round with the OJ teams only made the playoffs once, where they were thrashed by the steel curtain. :ill:

That game's highlights were on last night. All the 74 playoffs in fact.

Lou deserves to be on the Wall, no doubt.

Once, on the Marv Levy Show, the subject of Lou came up, and Marv told Maguire, "I've never met him personally."

I thought that was kind of strange, since they coached against each other on December 17, 1972 when the Bills defeated the Super Bowl bound Redskins, 24-17 at RFK. OJ won the rushing title over Larry Brown when Allen sat him out that day.

I guess we have to take him at his word, though.

[The_Philster]

Thing is, Marv was coaching special teams for George Allen back then...I don't know if Bruce Dehaven went up and introduced himself to every head coach on the opposing team :idunno:

[Mr. Cynical]

Don't get me wrong, after the Leon Lett play I went out and bought his Jersey, but if you look at his career numbers, he's not even close. If he goes on the wal any WR that played here 6 years will think they deserve it too. I think Tasker would have a shot though.
I hear ya...well, one additional thing to consider is that most of people on the Wall played during championship years. So that helps Beebe's case. And Tasker definitely will be up there one day IMO, after the big guys like Smith, Reed, etc. He was a huge part of the special team's success, and ST was a huge part of the team's success.

[G. Host]

No way on Lou Saban. He has not supported the Bills at all and would not show up.

Plenty of more deserving (Tasker) candidates.

[Earthquake Enyart]

:lolpoint: Beebe.

There are at least a dozen receivers better than him in Bills history.

[casdhf]

:lolpoint: Beebe.

There are at least a dozen receivers better than him in Bills history.


How many of them are under 5'6 and white? Tasker doesnt count.

[Mr. Cynical]

:lolpoint: Beebe.

There are at least a dozen receivers better than him in Bills history.
How many of them are under 5'6 and white? Tasker doesnt count.Exactly. And I think a dozen is a high number ... Beebe was here for 6 seasons...how many receivers lasted that long in Bills history? Even so, it is not just about his stats, it is how he acheived those stats...his character...his impact on the team...his place in the Bills 90s dynasty...he had the first TD catch in the comeback against Houston to make it 35-10, which was the start of momentum shift....and we all remember the small amount of dignity he restored by knocking the ball from Lett's hands. He made some very special plays at key times. =You have to take all of that into consideration.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Reed
Moulds
Dubenion
Butler
Lofton
Lewis
Hill
Chandler
Haven Moses
Briscoe
Warlick
maybe even a little Glenn Bass for you.

Twelve may be a stretch, but everyone on that list has equal or better careers than Beebe. Beebe was never the second best receiver on any team he was on.

[Mr. Cynical]

Reed
Moulds
Dubenion
Butler
Lofton
Lewis
Hill
Chandler
Haven Moses
Briscoe
Warlick
maybe even a little Glenn Bass for you.

Twelve may be a stretch, but everyone on that list has equal or better careers than Beebe. Beebe was never the second best receiver on any team he was on.I already mentioned Reed and Moulds is still active.

Dubenion is already on the wall.

Lofton is a good choice.

Lewis, Butler and Chandler are fair choices, although they played in a different era. (Chandler was before my time, so I can't say from personal experience)

Briscoe was here for 2 years. Not long enough for the wall.

I assume you mean JD Hill, not Ike. Didn't watch him play (before my time) but I don't see anything special from the stats. Unless he made some outstanding plays, I can't see him over Beebe.

Warlick? I don't know who he is nor can I find any info on him.

Moses was here 5 years, but his last year was crap (injury I assume). But his stats in Buffalo are nothing to get excited about, especially if he was a #1 or #2 receiver. I don't know his impact on the team outside of his stats given he was before my time.

Again, I think you need to consider more than pure stats when deciding a wall candidate. For example, Bledsoe has a few Bills passing records but I think it is safe to assume he will not get on the wall. However, I don't think Beebe will get on for quite awhile, not until the others from the Bills 90s dynasty are all up there. But IMHO I think he has an outside shot.

[Michael82]

I think they can find additional space, too.
I was looking at the boxes in the tunnel endzone. There is room to plaster names all over them if they want. Or they can start stacking names on top of eachother after they fill the current spots.

[Michael82]

Will Lofton make it on? Or is he considered more of a Packer?

[Mr. Cynical]

Will Lofton make it on? Or is he considered more of a Packer?
That's a fair question. But here's my thoughts....

If you look who is on the wall, I think most if not all were part of a winning era in Bills history. So, if you take that assumption, you are looking at players from the mid 60s (AFL champs), mid 70s (OJ years), very early 80s (Fergy/Cribbs), and the early 90s (Kelly and Co.). So on that basis, he will probably get on, in addition to the fact he is a HoFer and I believe he went into the hall as a Bill.

[The_Philster]

That's a fair question. But here's my thoughts....

If you look who is on the wall, I think most if not all were part of a winning era in Bills history. So, if you take that assumption, you are looking at players from the mid 60s (AFL champs), mid 70s (OJ years), very early 80s (Fergy/Cribbs), and the early 90s (Kelly and Co.). So on that basis, he will probably get on, in addition to the fact he is a HoFer and I believe he went into the hall as a Bill.actually, he went into the HOF as a Packer...though the ball they have on display as his HOF memorabilia is one he caught as a Bill

[G. Host]

Players do not go in for their team. People keep misclaiming this despite hall repeating this every year.

Thurman when he goes into Hall of Fame will go in as a Bill AND Dolphin; Bruce Smith as a Bill AND Redsuck.

[The_Philster]

Players do not go in for their team. People keep misclaiming this despite hall repeating this every year.Thurman when he goes into Hall of Fame will go in as a Bill AND Dolphin; Bruce Smith as a Bill AND Redsuck.Have you been to Canton? Each team has a little display in which they have a list of the names of the players, coaches, contributors who are in the HOF along with some item of memorabilia from their playing days.
Lofton is only in there on the Packers display...not on the Bills display

[G. Host]

Have you been to Canton? Each team has a little display in which they have a list of the names of the players, coaches, contributors who are in the HOF along with some item of memorabilia from their playing days.
Lofton is only in there on the Packers display...not on the Bills display

Yes I have been there; I was there for Jimbo's inauguration.


Buffalo Bills (5/1)

JOE DELAMIELLEURE (2003) - 1973-1979, 1985
JIM KELLY (2002) - 1986-1996
MARV LEVY (2001) - 1986-1997
James Lofton (2003) - 1989-1992
BILLY SHAW (1999) - 1961-1969
O.J. SIMPSON (1985) - 1969-1977

From Teams page at prohalloffame.com (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/teams.jsp)

NOTE: In this listing - a Hall of Famer is named under all clubs on which he made his primary contribution to professional football - (i.e. - Chuck Noll is listed under Pittsburgh as a coach - but not under Cleveland as a player). Hall of Famers who made the major part of their primary contribution for any one club are listed in BOLD CAPS. In cases where a player contributed about equally and in a major way to two or more clubs - he is listed in BOLD CAPS under both clubs (ie. Nick Buoniconti is listed with both the Patriots and Dolphins as his primary teams). Hall of Famers who spent only a minor portion of their career with any club are listed under that club in lower case.

They probably just have not updated Bills display.

Personally I do not think he (Lofton) belongs on Wall of Fame

[The_Philster]

If they didn't update the Bills display...why was Joe D on there and Lofton only in the Packers display? They went in together. and you're ignoring the
NOTE: In this listing remark...all that is is a list of teams the player or coach contributed to. If I'm not mistaken, baseball players are honored in Cooperstown wearing the ball cap of the team they want to be honored with...in the NFL, I'm not sure if it's the player's choice or what, but a player will be credited with playing with multiple teams...but they will only be displayed as a Packer/Bill/Raider/Eagle/whatever

[Mr. Cynical]

Players do not go in for their team. People keep misclaiming this despite hall repeating this every year.To be fair, it is not only fans who say this. Marcus Allen is quoted to have said "I will go into the Hall as a Chief, not a Raider". I heard him say it several times. I'd be very curious to know which display his stuff is under.

[The_Philster]

To be fair, it is not only fans who say this. Marcus Allen is quoted to have said "I will go into the Hall as a Chief, not a Raider". I heard him say it several times. I'd be very curious to know which display his stuff is under.Well, with him already inducted, anyone in Canton can settle who decides it...the player or the alumni...he'll either have his name and memorabilia with the Raiders display...or the Chiefs display

[Bills 4 life]

No way does he get a spot on the wall.
TOTALLY agree. He wasn't that good. Especially when he got cremed on that sideline catch I believe in Pittsburgh.

[Bills 4 life]

oops. I was referring to Don Beebe.

[pleasesavedrew]

Bravo!Hope he responds to you so we can see his "offical" excuse to y this won't happen.