For the record, and to set things straight...

[WG]

...I don't nor ever did think that Drew sucks. Lately some have insinuated that I've stated or implied that. I've always maintained that Drew is an average QB who plays his best when he's supported by a solid D and a good rushing game.

I think his stats after this week will support that notion. The reason why I've held this opinion is b/c he's received lots of accolades when he's really only put up two season's that were particularly noteworthy while he was in N.E. Those were the '96 and '97 seasons in which he tossed 27 TDs/ 15 INTs and 28/15. Other than that, he either threw way too many INTs or didn't have more than average (more than 20 TDs) numbers, particularly for a QB who threw for so many yards.

Anyway, I'm only posting this to clear the air. There have been some charges lately that I think that Drew sucks when I don't. I think he's around say 12th or thereabouts in terms of overall QB value. This isn't negative nor is it meant to be.

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
...I don't nor ever did think that Drew sucks. Lately some have insinuated that I've stated or implied that. I've always maintained that Drew is an average QB who plays his best when he's supported by a solid D and a good rushing game.

I think his stats after this week will support that notion. The reason why I've held this opinion is b/c he's received lots of accolades when he's really only put up two season's that were particularly noteworthy while he was in N.E. Those were the '96 and '97 seasons in which he tossed 27 TDs/ 15 INTs and 28/15. Other than that, he either threw way too many INTs or didn't have more than average (more than 20 TDs) numbers, particularly for a QB who threw for so many yards.

Anyway, I'm only posting this to clear the air. There have been some charges lately that I think that Drew sucks when I don't. I think he's around say 12th or thereabouts in terms of overall QB value. This isn't negative nor is it meant to be.

You could have fooled me! :sukrpnch:

[TacklingDummy]

I've never heard you come right and say Drew sucks. Let me say it for you, Drew SUCKS. He's the healthy less moble version of Rob Johnson.

[Alluro]

Drew Bledsoe should be shipped out of town as soon as possible. i'd be willing to take a 2nd round pick and chalk it up as a mistake if it came to that, but i'm hoping the boys would give buffalo their first rounder once Parcells takes over. Bill might want his QB back.

[WG]

I'm not gonna disagree w/ any of that, or shipping him out of town. You know that I was highly, and one of the lone voices vehemently opposed to this trade for this very reason. Do I think it was a bad decision, absolutely.

BUT, Drew is still an average or avg. + QB. He's not as bad as many in this league. I think that the notion that he's not a top 10 QB has borne itself out over the past several games. But again, if used properly, we can make the best of a bad situation.

We simply can't afford to acquire another QB this offseason, at least not a name one. We're gonna have to make due for at least next year. It may cost us in the playoffs then, but we're simply gonna have to make due.

It's a tough situation we're in which is what I feared. I still don't know how someone can start off so strong and then fade like this down the stretch. He started off like Marino and ended up worse than RJ. It's really bizarre. Even I'm a tad bit puzzled at how this has unfolded having expected some bad play in big games.

We need to focus on our D this offseason. Let Price go, work Reed in, and get some D players to take this now average D to the next level, a top 5 D!!!

Henry and a great D will win us the division next year.

[HenryRules]

I really hope they don't let Price go. Reed is going to be a great underneath guy and can get some good YAC yards, but he really is no big play threat and as it stands now, we don't have enough big-play players on the team. The reason we lost games was not because we made too many mistakes (mistakes are gonna be made, and we definitely did not make more than our share), its that we didn't make enough big plays to make up for our mistakes. Losing one of our biggest big-play players (probably #3 on the team for big plays - behind EM and DB) would really have to bring in some great help on D to make up for it.

[Typ0]

He faded down the stretch so bad because of lousy game plans too reliant on his throwing 90 yd td passes. It's like we didn't even care about the game at the line of scrimmage. You have to win the small battles first.

[The_Philster]

It'd be nice to keep Price but I don't see it happening. Moulds can stretch the field just fine and maybe a cheaper free agent can be brought in to compete with Charles Johnson and Andre Rone for the #3 spot....one with speed. There's no rule that says the #2 WR can't play in the slot underneath.

[HenryRules]

Philster, if they bring in another big play receiver, I don't mind ... however, every time I hear someone talk about letting go of Price, no mention is made of bringing in another receiver to replace him. IMO, elevating JR to #2 and having CJ step up to #3 is a huge downgrade for our offense. I'd be amazed if JR puts up more 1200+ yards and 10 TDs next year so for our offense to be as good, CJ would have to be an upgrade over JR's 500 yards and I really don't think there's any chance of him returning to that quality of player ... so if we're letting go of PP, we'd really have to get some big playmakers on D to compensate.

[WG]

Boston will be available, and he may go for what Price does. If he goes for more, then he'd be worth more. Before I'd spend a dime for Price, I'd take my chances on a huge contract with Boston or another.

But we can't afford to look at expensive offensive players. CP and EB stated earlier that we'll be able to sign 2, maybe 3, name players. We have too many weaknesses/needs on D to take a WR. What is starting to smart is this loss of a first rounder.

Besides, and this applies especially while Drew's here, we need to taper down the passing game, not add to it and increase it.

[The_Philster]

We simply don't have much beyond Moulds, Reed, and Price this year. We had a pair of young WRs the last few years with promise in McDaniel and Germany. They're both out of the NFL now, I believe. CJ used to be a solid WR and I expected a lot more from him than I've seen this year and Andre Rone has been inactive all year. Hopefully, Rone will get some significant playing time against the Bengals. Beyond that, we have Reggie Allen on the reserve list and God only knows if he'll ever get the chance to make the squad with the injuries he incurred in NFL Europe or whatever happened to him. Anyone remember?
Anyway, what I'm saying is that a free agent is pretty much a necessity to pick up because we can't afford to spend our #2 pick on a WR.

[Dudly Do-Right]

Boston would be a waste of money. Too many private issues and he's not the speed receiver we need.

I think Peerless is a risk as well. Once he gets a huge new contract, I wonder if he'll play as hard. Even this year he took too many downs off or had mental breakdowns to command #1 pay, IMO.

[Tatonka]

i think that we will see the bills draft another wr... there are alot of good ones in this years draft..

as cool as it would be to see boston and moulds together .. it wont happen.. boston wouldnt sign somewhere to be a number 2

[WG]

Heck, he can be our #1. So far, Moulds has never put up indisputable #1 numbers.


Dudley Do Right,

Totally agree with you. Just saying that if we do spend that kind of money, take Boston over Price. We can find some fine WRs to work in and Reed is gonna be special. He already is. I have no doubt that he could have posted the numbers that Price did and he wouldn't have had half the dropped balls.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by Dudly Do-Right
Boston would be a waste of money. Too many private issues and he's not the speed receiver we need.

I think Peerless is a risk as well. Once he gets a huge new contract, I wonder if he'll play as hard. Even this year he took too many downs off or had mental breakdowns to command #1 pay, IMO.

I agree they both have risks associated ... but IMO the biggest risk is to go into next season with less playmakers when we already lack playmakers on the squad.

IMO, DB, EM, and PP are the only players that consistently seem to make the big plays that can turn the game. TH is great at running the ball (as my moniker implys, I love the guy), but he doesn't seem to make that many game-turning plays. On defense, we don't have anyone that can make plays at all consistently (maybe LF if we get some DT's, but I still don't think he'd be at PP's level and NC may turn into that type of player, but not yet). So if we don't sign a big-name receiver and instead end up settling for 2 or 3 middle-of-the-road defensive players (i.e. missing out on Roosevelt Colvin, Takeo Spikes, et al and getting guys of Phil Hansen-type quality - a big possibility IMO), we'd end up with a team that has no big play capability outside of the QB and #1 WR. I don't see any rewards at all to the defensive side in this situation (we'd improve slightly, but really the biggest problem on D is no big plays) and some huge risks on the offensive side - asking EM, DB, and TH to put up similar #'s without PP.

[Dudly Do-Right]

It won't be an easy decision for TD, that's for sure. Signing PP is a risk and almost guarantees that we can't pursue a quality LB or DT in FA.

I still think we take a chance on Josh Reed and a journeyman WR or maybe a hidden draft gem and devote our energy to building up our Defense. Other than the one flukey win by the Rams a few years ago, no team has won a SB without a solid Defense.

[TacklingDummy]

Originally posted by HenryRules
TH is great at running the ball (as my moniker implys, I love the guy), but he doesn't seem to make that many game-turning plays.

He makes many game turning plays. Whats he got 8 fumbles now?:puke:

[Dudly Do-Right]

Originally posted by TacklingDummy


He makes many game turning plays. Whats he got 8 fumbles now?:puke:





:dizzy:

[HenryRules]

I think what is most important is that TD makes his mind up quickly and immediately goes after the big playmakers ... if he waits to join the FA market in hopes of getting a bargain, we could be left with middle-of-the-road players and a team destined to finish 9-7/10-6 and be out of the playoffs in the first round.

I'm not sure on the cap sit., but I think by cutting JR, we could sign PP, Roosevelt Colvin, and hopefully a DT and a corner. IMO, its more important to come out of this offseason with 2 playmakers (including PP if he's resigned) than to plug 3 holes on D with average players.

I agree that a solid D is a necessity to win SB's, but so are playmakers, and without PP, we only have 2 of those.

[vmark11]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
...I don't nor ever did think that Drew sucks. Lately some have insinuated that I've stated or implied that. I've always maintained that Drew is an average QB who plays his best when he's supported by a solid D and a good rushing game.

I think his stats after this week will support that notion. The reason why I've held this opinion is b/c he's received lots of accolades when he's really only put up two season's that were particularly noteworthy while he was in N.E. Those were the '96 and '97 seasons in which he tossed 27 TDs/ 15 INTs and 28/15. Other than that, he either threw way too many INTs or didn't have more than average (more than 20 TDs) numbers, particularly for a QB who threw for so many yards.


On the whole I would agree - he's an ok QB when you average out the great games and horrible games. One of the reasons the DB opinions seem to be so polarized is because there ISN'T any middle ground when you break down his games individually. He either throws for 300+ yards/3TD's/0int's, or 200 yards/0TD's/3int's. It's hard to win a SB with that kind of inconsistency. I think you're better off with a guy who puts up 250 yards/2TD's/1 int every game. He's really only played 3 of those "manage the game" type games this year - against the Lions, Broncos, and the 1st Dolphins game; and we're 2-1 in those games. I'd like to think this is something he can fix, but that's unlikely given that he's been around for 10 years now.

It's extremely frustrating because I seem to remember patience being one of his strenghts in NE when he was taking the short stuff to Coates&Martin. 6 years later he looks like a rookie just looking for the big play, not checking down, and taking sacks at bad times.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by Tatonka
i think that we will see the bills draft another wr... there are alot of good ones in this years draft..

as cool as it would be to see boston and moulds together .. it wont happen.. boston wouldnt sign somewhere to be a number 2



Originally posted by Wys Guy
Heck, he can be our #1. So far, Moulds has never put up indisputable #1 numbers.


Dudley Do Right,

Totally agree with you. Just saying that if we do spend that kind of money, take Boston over Price. We can find some fine WRs to work in and Reed is gonna be special. He already is. I have no doubt that he could have posted the numbers that Price did and he wouldn't have had half the dropped balls.


Moulds never put up #1 numbers? He owns the team record for receptions in a season, and yards in a season - set in different years.

He's on the verge of breaking both records this season. What are you talking about???:huh::baghead:

[WG]

"indisputable" #1 numbers!

I'll help ya out...

So far, the greatest # of TDs he's ever had in a season is 9 barring a couple next week.

9,7,5,5,2,0

He's had 1,300 yards twice, but once w/ only 5 TDs and the other w/ only 9 TDs. When I think of the type of #1 WR that I'd be completely happy with, I think of a guy who puts up 1,500 and at least 12 or 14 TDs.

It's only an opinion, but evaluating a guy on yards and receptions apart from TDs is like evaluating a boxer on "punches thrown." Who cares. What you really want to know is how many hit and what their results were.

I wasn't saying Moulds is not a #1, I'm just saying that he hasn't exactly put up the numbers that Harrison, Rice, J. Smith, R. Smith, etc. have. This season kind of solidifies him as in that role. But w/ 4,000 + yards, which WR wouldn't have had 1,300 and 9 TDs? Especially when 50-60% of the tosses go to 2 guys regularly.

http://www.football-reference.com/players/MoulEr00.htm

[HenryRules]

How many receivers put up 1500 yards and 12+ TDs last year???

1 - Marvin Harrison (and only for the second time in his career). I guess every other team should have been in the market for a receiver last year ...

Okay, let's expand that, How many receivers put up 1500 yards <i>or</i> 12+ TDs last year?
3 - Marvin Harrison, David Boston, Terrell Owens.

Or, how about this, how many times has the greatest receiver of all time, Jerry Rice, had 1500 yards and 12+ TDs in one season?
4 times. That's it. He came close a fifth time. But apparently, Joe Montana and Steve Young are even better than I thought because they did everything they did without the benefit of a #1 receiver.

Oh, and how many receivers last year had more than Moulds' inadequate best of 9 TDs?
4 - Terrell Owens, Marvin Harrison, Rod Smith, and Randy Moss ... not too bad of company.

And how many receivers last year beat his best of 1368 yards?
4 again - Boston, Harrison, Owens, and Jimmy Smith.

No wonder everyone says there's a QB shortage nowadays. With only 4 or 5 #1 quality receivers in the entire league, how can anyone expect QBs to have successful careers??

[Typ0]

Take away 2 from Moulds best 9 and you have 7 but take away 2 from 12 you have 10 which is only one better than 9. Moulds is only 1 TD away from being the best receiver of all time!