does anyone think that green fumbled?

[Tatonka]

it looked like a fumble to me.. it would seem like replay is there to correct bad calls, but it is not available on a call were the whistle is blown.. seems stupid to me..

it looked like the defense was gonna single handedly win the game for us ..

ps.. our two corners played super today.

[Ð]

Yes wuz fumble...refs strong like bull, dumb like streetcar

[Herdwatcher]

Sure.
The turning point in the game for the Bills. Those are the calls of the NFL however screwed up they may be.

[LtBillsFan66]

Fumble all the way. Cost the game. Many things cost the game, but this was one.

[Dozerdog]

Everyone except the Zebras thought it was a fumble.

[Novacane]

I don't know why they have to be so damn quick to blow the whistle. WHen in question they should not blow the whistle and let the play finish. Then it can be reviewed and overturned if they were wrong.

BTW................CBS' replay sucked on that play. I can't believe they only had one camera angle.

[Typ0]

Gregg Williams made a good point about why he was complaining to the official about the call after the game. He said the reason the instant replay is in place is so they can call that play a fumble instead of blowing it down and then throw the onus of the challenge on the offense. Otherwise a wrong play can't be corrected because the defense doesn't have a challenge. I'm not saying exactly what he said but I do remember thinking it was one of the most intelligent things I have heard him say.

[Novacane]

WoW..............GW making sense! There is hope for him yet!

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by BledsoeTOreedfor6
I don't know why they have to be so damn quick to blow the whistle. WHen in question they should not blow the whistle and let the play finish. Then it can be reviewed and overturned if they were wrong.

I was thinking the same thing. There really was no reason to be quick on the whistle on that play.

[lordofgun]

Refs are a bunch of boneheads...plain and simple. I saw 3 such plays in different games today where the plays were unreviewable since the refs blew the whistle too soon.

[lordofgun]

BTW, I think the NFL needs to pound that point home this offseason. Then take away the whistles from all these morons and give it to JUST the umpire so there's less of a chance of crap like that happening. Why do they ALL need whistles?

[LtBillsFan66]

Or they should review it after the game and if it turns out to be a mistake, they should make the ref eat the whistle.

[WG]

He hadn't taken two steps before the ball came out. That's why they didn't rule it a fumble. It qualified in all other ways, but in order for it to have been a catch to begin with, he would have had to have taken two steps that he didn't take. Randy Cross showed the replay at least twice and said the same thing. It was easy to see that he had only taken one step.

So it wasn't a bad call, rather a proper one.

Anyway, if our offense w/ 6 pro bowlers can't put up even 10 points then IMO we didn't deserve to win.

[lordofgun]

I saw two steps, possibly 3!

[WG]

Not after he had possession of the ball. It was a tricky replay, you had to look specifically at when he caught it. Cross even counted them once he had the ball and noted only one step.

No matter, hey, if we can't put any points on the board otherwise, like I said, I'm certainly not gonna blame the refs. There's no way on earth that we deserved to win this game based on the shoddy way that our offense played and the completely undisciplined manner in which Drew played personally. Three trips to the red zone all ruined by him on 1 INT and 2 sacks, coupled with 4 other sacks, 4 of the 6 on 3rd downs, and several of them that were so obvious as to be obvious to the TV viewer and still Drew couldn't throw the ball away. Shades of RJ for sure. Reuben Brown let his man go thru on the one that ended the game.

I still think we could have kicked either a FG or scored a TD and had a GREAT chance to win the game w/ an onside kick in that weather.

Oh well. The question is what are they going to do next week. I think they should try some of the "bubble" players and some of the young rookies and second year guys. Let Travis Brown start to see how well he plays. We obviously have to keep Drew for next year, but if he starts off next season the way he's finished this one, I bench him for Brown or whoever our other QB is and cut his arse at the end of the season. If all we're gonna get out of him from now on is 1 TD/game and an equal # of INTs, then we cna get that just about anytime, anywhere. We didn't need to swap a 1st rounder for it. Chandler and Van Pelt could have done that.

I'd like to see Brown and Burns start next week. Same OL and WRs.

[Typ0]

The point is it never got to replay becuase they blew the play dead. It was close enough they should have ruled it a fumble and let the offensive team challenge the call.

[WG]

Are you saying that you expect reasonable behaviour and professionalism out of the NFL officials?

Shame on you!

Even if they had however, w/ only one step, it would have not been reversed, inconclusive at best.

0 points, who cares. Could the season have ended any lower. I won't consider anything other than a 20+ point blowout next week a success since the Bungals reek so bad. Especially since they had a big game today. That will ensure that they're not up for next Sunday.

[Typ0]

It just brings up a problem is all. It seems the instant replay favors the offense because of the dead play rules. On the other hand, they can't just call it the other way to go to replay, that would favor the defense because of the inconclusive evidence. This is definately a situation where the replay is challenged.

[SABURZFAN]

Originally posted by lordofgun
I saw two steps, possibly 3!


stevie wonder and ray charles saw the same thing.:rolleyes:

[Patrick76777]

How come I knew wys would say it wasn’t a fumble. I swear that sometimes you try too hard to not be a homer.

That being said, I think it was definitely a “Grey area” call! The kind of call that could go either way! The kind of call that wouldn’t be overturned either way. I guess it just depended on what kind of a mood that ref was in.

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by Typ0
The point is it never got to replay becuase they blew the play dead. It was close enough they should have ruled it a fumble and let the offensive team challenge the call.

That's is the bottom line. The mistake wasn't necessarily the ruling, it was the whistle.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Randy Cross showed the replay at least twice and said the same thing.



Please, lets not go by what that moron says. When they showed the replay the other anouncer said"That was a fumble" and Cross jumps in and say's no it's not! He was horrible. He talked like Farve played a great game. TDRJ said it right in another post........................get him a condom so he can go make love to Brett Farve. I was ridiculas the way he was slobbering about Farve.

[TedMock]

My confusion is when the steps start. He caught the ball cleanly with two hands without bobbling it. He took one step before he tucked the ball in and one after. I thought that because it was a clean catch that it could have been ruled a fumble and that he didn't have to tuck the ball under his are for it to be deemed "possession". I'm not sure exactly what the rule states though.

[mybills]

Originally posted by lordofgun
I saw two steps, possibly 3!

me too. 2 steps, then switched hands on 3rd step, that's when he lost it.

Don't even think the whistle blew until 10-15 yrds down field with the recovery. Totally bogus reffing.

[blcny]

Once you make a move to put the ball away, it is considered a catch. The steps don't matter. If the reciever shows control of the ball then it is a catch. These are the new rules to the best of my knowledge. I think they changed them this year.
This was a catch and a fumble, and it should of been 7 points for us. Yeah we didn't nothing to deserve to win on offense, but our defense definatly deserved to win that game. They played great. We get that call and we are up 7-3. Changed the whole game.
If you take advice from Randy Cross, you should be careful. The guy is a complete moron.

[colin]

We wuz robbed. Big Pat is a freaking Ninja, I really think we can run a 46 strong next year. That call was BS, but what is even worse (from a proffesionalism standpoint, not as game changing) was the obvious out of bounds catch on the early drive, that was ruled out of bounds by the linesman, and then changed by some ass face 3 miles away. So we had to blow a challenge to fix a call that was correct in the first place. I wonder about fixes, but I am sure of incompetance.

[Typ0]

On the whistle one official did blow the whistle right when Green dropped the ball. Then there was a pregnant pause and the rest of the officials blew their whistles. The whistle wasn't as late as everyone thinks...it's just that there was only one brief whistle when the play was actually called dead.

[Tatonka]

you dont have to take 2 steps for it to be a catch wys.. that statement is assinine.. you only have to make a FOOTBALL MOVE to show possession.. tell me this..

a WR catches a ball with both feet in bounds, right on the sidelines.. then falls backwards out of bounds onto his back.. i guess that is not a catch, because he didnt take any steps?

wrong..

green CLEARLY had possession, he never bobbled the ball. he turned and took a step with clear control.. that is a football move.. if the refs would have called it properly and let teh play unfold, then gone back to review it, then AT best.. it would have been inconclusive.

wys.. i swear to god, i really question your loyalty.. like someone else said.. i could have bet my house on it, that you, of all people, would be the sole voice to say GOOD CALL REFS!!!.. i really really dont think that your a bills fan.. your a constant critic, pissing and moaning all the time.. you never have anything good to say.. you complain about henry.. until you cant anymore.. then move on to bledsoe.. or whatever else you can.. you refuse to just keep your trap shut, or just say something good.. your the eternal pesimist and the most annoying poster that i have ever read on any board at any time..

why dont you become a dolphins fan.. i would rather have WCF as a bills fan than you.. as a matter of fact, i think WCF is a bigger bills fan than you... can we trade you for him permenantly?

[Akhippo]

You dont have to take two steps, if you did most of the catches in the NFL would be incompletes. A back catches a pass out of the backfield and is planted immediately. Still a catch. Its two feet down with possession, then a football move. The way I saw it he made the catch with one foot already down, made a football move and got the other foot down at the same time, criteria for a catch complete, then fumbles, picked up and ran back for a tou... er nevermind.

[otto105]

Replay would not have overturned the call on the field anyway.

[lordofgun]

That stupid FOOTBALL MOVE rule is the most ridiculous rule I've ever heard of. Let's just take all the rules and make them subjective. The refs don't have enough to do.

[BillsNYC]

c'mon guys....we're all bills fans here....we know that when our season ends it has to happen on something controversial !!!

[Typ0]

Replay would not have overturned the call on the field anyway.

That's why this has to be looked at very closely. The ref on the field clearly felt the play was dead it was not a catch. What Williams is saying is the spirit of the replay system dictates the play not be blown dead and the onus of the challenge be on the offense. This is a truth about the replay system from what I have seen from its implementation. Two years ago when it was first clear there was a long term commitment to the replay from the league I noticed a distinct difference in when the plays were blown dead. There was the addition of a moment before plays were blown dead to be sure they were actually dead. However, plays still have to be blown dead or there are still people playing on the field when the play has actually ended. You saw the onslaught Sapp put up with when he made a legal hit in the field of play.

The official is in an interesting predicament here. This play should have been ruled a fumble in the spirit of the replay and the onus on the offense to challenge the call. However, the replay system is not able to render an adequate picture of what happened because it is not a national game and they have the minimum amount of cameras on site. So, by default in this situation, the defense should emerge with a turnover at the least despite what happened on the field right in front of the only person equipped to make the call--the official. Or is it that the official has the power to make the original call the player is down? Does the league create bias in favor of teams in larger markets by better equipping their games replay infrastructures?

[TigerJ]

When the play happened I was frustrated because CBS couldn't or wouldn't show a decent replay. The more times I've seen it today, the more I'm convinced it was a fumble. I agree that overall the Bills didn't play well enough to deserve the win, but that play and the touchdown that followed was a 14 point swing, and the call definitely cost the Bills the win. I agree that under the circumstances the official was not supposed to blow the whistle. If they had let it play out, the Packers could have challenged and I think there was enough video evidence to render a good decision. The ref took the game out of the hands of the players and decided the game on that one play. He ought to be fired. The NFL will probably give him an award and a raise.